The Morning After

November 21st, 2016
Bucs' TE Alan Cross celebrates his first NFL touchdown catch.

Tight end Alan Cross celebrates his first NFL touchdown catch. (Photo courtesy of

Good morning. Today seems so special, in addition to the fact that it is Victory Monday. So let’s jump in Jason Licht’s pool, shall we?

Bigger Than Big

Few times since Joe launched this here website over eight years ago can Joe remember a bigger win than what the Bucs pulled off yesterday. The Chiefs are one of the NFL’s best. They had a ferocious secondary. They rarely lose at home. Yet the Bucs came in and spanked them.

Throughout the game, Joe thought the Bucs mostly outplayed the Chiefs. However, drives stalled and field goals had to be made. Dumb penalties hurt drives. It seemed the Bucs could not get out of their own way. Again.

Then, just when it appeared the Chiefs were going to seal the deal, Gerald McCoy tips an Alex Smith pass and Chris Conte returned the pick to midfield.

The GMC and Conte haters – there are many — must have wanted to snort Clorox.

It was impressive. The Bucs easily could have folded or found a way to lose. Again. They have so many times it had become both habit and predictable.

Joe wrote already that drive for a game-winning touchdown after the pick from Conte very easily could be a season-changing drive, a season-defining drive. It also could be a franchise-changing drive.

Rare upset

Joe can’t remember such an upset by the Bucs on the road. Maybe Philly last year? Maybe last year the second week of the season at New Orleans, after America’s Quarterback, Pro Bowler Jameis Winston, was so horrible in his NFL debut and the Bucs shat all over the field of the Den of Depression? Perhaps at Atlanta last year when the Dixie Chicks had a 6-1 record?

Given the opponent and the location, this win will be remembered for a long time, especially by the Bucs fans who traveled to the game from all points of the country.

Playoff picture

Yes, when a team is 5-5 at Thanksgiving, they are in the playoff picture. A lot would have to happen for the Bucs to get a wild card at 8-8. On paper, it looks like the Bucs could close finish the season 4-2 and finish 9-7. The Bucs play Seattle (probably a loss), San Diego (winnable), New Orleans twice (winnable), at Dallas (likely a loss) and the Stinking Panthers at home to close the season (winnable).

So at 9-7, the Bucs have a shot at a wild card if the stars align right.

Frankly, the Bucs have a better shot at winning the division than they do at a wild card, but there the Bucs would need some help.

Is it Koetter or Jameis?

Some spirited discussion over dinner between the two Joes last night in underrated Kansas City over burnt ends and craft beers.

You can help decide the argument.

One Joe thinks Bucs coach Dirk Koetter is squeezing blood out of a turnip. The Bucs entered yesterday’s game with more points scored than the Steelers, Cardinals, Seahawks and Chiefs. With the possible exception of the Chiefs, all of those teams have much better offensive weapons and skill position players than the Bucs.

The other Joe isn’t throwing Koetter under the bus but believes the scoring credit should go to one person and one person only: Jameis. Great quarterbacks make players better, and the past two weeks, that is exactly what Jameis has done, in addition to playing well. He’s growing into that top shelf franchise quarterback most believed he would be when Bucs AC/DC-loving general manager Jason Licht selected him No. 1 overall in the draft last year.

Your thoughts?


* Where are the frauds who claimed the Bucs fired the wrong coach last year? It has taken Koetter 10 games to win five. It took Lovie Smith 23 games to win five. Hello!

* Robert Aguayo has missed but one field goal in the past five games.

* Seven different receivers caught passes from Jameis Sunday.

*  The Chiefs had won 17 of their last 19 home games and 10 straight prior to Sunday’s game.

*  Penalties still an issue for the Bucs. They had seven yesterday.

* Koetter said that unlike last week, Conte, when he made his critical pick, came to the sideline and failed to give Koetter a head-butt.


Jameis: No explanation needed.

Chris Conte: Dirk Koetter called his pick and big time return the play of the game.

Roberto Aguayo: Without his clutch field goals, Bucs lose.

Ali Marpet: Dude was just mauling people.


“I hope so. Yeah. That’s what he should be saying. We couldn’t punch it in. These guys are really tough in the red zone. They’re tough to score on. It’s not like we were doing anything wrong, no one is scoring points on these guys. We had a couple things we thought we could take advantage of, but they shut us down. We needed all those field goals.” – Dirk Koetter on if yesterday’s game by Roberto Aguayo was a turning point in his young career.

“It just shows us what we’re capable of, it sets that standard. By no means have we had an easy go round this year. We played against some tough teams and this is the NFL. Every week, you’re going to play against a great defense and a great offense. Next week will definitely be a challenge with the Seahawks.” — Jameis on what Sunday’s win means.

“I can’t tell you how major of a play that was, late in the game, their offense is driving, and they’re gaining momentum play by play and not only does he come down with it, but returns it to midfield and gives our offense good field position. It’s essentially the play of the game.” – Bradley McDougald on Conte’s pick.

“I think we’ve really transitioned well from the way we’ve been practicing. We’ve been practicing like we want to win. We’ve been practicing hard. I think the situation we put ourselves in during practice showed on the field. We didn’t quit. [The Conte] interception was a phenomenal play, and we started blocking him. Like I said, it’s really just the way we’ve been practicing.” – Will Gholston.

“I was just doing my job. I was just patient on that play. It’s a play that we’ve seen before in practice. So, I was ready for it. We always talk about playing complementary football. The defense came up with a big turnover and then the offense finished it off. That’s what you want to have when you come out on the road.” — Conte on his interception.

“Well, they did a nice job of protecting, and they did a nice job of completing the ball on the outside. That’s what it was. It’s not a secret. I’m not stating anything that isn’t obvious.” – Chiefs coach Andy Reid on Jameis’ third-down efficiency.

51 Responses to “The Morning After”

  1. Buc Neckid Says:

    Roberto Aguayo: Without his clutch field goals, Bucs lose.

    And none of those kicks looked like fluttering ducks like earlier this season.

    Solid, Purely Struck, Right Down the Middle Kicks

    That’s How you Win in an Upset … Points when you get “That Close”.

  2. Bob in valrico Says:

    I’d say your both right.Koetter and company designed a good game plan that
    played to his offenses strengths.He seemed to be more comfortable and confident in calling the game.
    I would also credit Jameis with a signature win against a good team and good defense.Jameis was money on third down.The key will always be ball placement on his passes.Give your receiver the best chance to catch it and run with it after the catch.

  3. Wombat Says:

    I would say with key o’lineman out, VJax out and Doug out for most of the season, yes he has got blood from a turnip. Russell Shepard and Shorts III playing well also is rare that your 4 & 5 contribute so much.

  4. gotbbucs Says:

    I’ll give McCoy credit for tipping that pass, but he was pushed back 3 yards on a pass play and I’m pretty sure it wasn’t a zone drop. Shouldn’t he be getting up field on a goalline play? It was the one play he made in the game so I guess we should be happy.

  5. PAbucsfan Says:

    I’m just as happy about the win as the next Bucs fan. This game against Seattle will prove just how far (or not far) This Bucs team has become. We’re 5-5 and we beat a beatable team without a couple of their best players. Do it again Next week and I’ll start buying it. Yesterday’s game could’ve also been easily lost. Keep that in mind. GO BUCS!!!

  6. Harry in Costa Rica Says:

    I trust in Steve, as he does not indulge in light beer crap. Seriously, Koetter is doing a great job, I think we have found our long term coach and that is exciting (yes he has made some rookie mistakes, but those are understandable).

    But the credit goes mostly to Jameis. Coaches are only as good as their players (except coaches who are not smart enough to know what they have). And yesterday I was thinking, Jameis pulled that win off wth WRs discarded by other teams – they weren’t good enough for those teams. To be able to do that is what they mean by making the players around you better!! Brady and Manning made some WRs look like stars when they weren’t. That is what Jameis is starting to do.

  7. Warthog Says:

    Both joes are right – koetter and Jamie’s both squeezing champagne outta a dirty ol turnip

  8. Pawel Says:

    Biggest clutch play was at the end of the game to M.Evans for a first down to keep clock moving!!!

  9. Jim Says:

    Some praise for the O-Line? They gave JW the time he needed…

  10. Wombat Says:

    The sad thing is we win, and not a word on!! It’s like we had a bye yesterday. I know KC was the quiet 10 game home streak leader, but they are about as far under the radar as us!!! Parity????

  11. tdtb2015 Says:

    The coaching staff, JW and Ayers are the right fuel for the team to reach a second game in January.

  12. BuccoDav Says:

    Joe says:
    “Seven different receivers caught passes from Jameis Sunday.”

    During mop up time of the Falcons game, Glennon was taking what the defense was giving him and distributing the ball. I was mocked because I said Jameis could learn something watching him.
    Now Jameis is spreading the ball around and finding, mostly, the open receivers. This is the progress I am most proud of from him. He is seeing the field better and not focusing on ME or VJax.

  13. ndog Says:

    Exactly Wombat and this morning on Mike and Mike, all they say about the game is “if you’re Chiefs, how do you lose a game like that at home to Tampa?”

  14. Dusthty Rhothdes Says:

    Great win never saw this coming but the team looks like its moving in right direction now hopefully jason gump gets on board of figuring things out

  15. NewTampaChris Says:

    Before the season started, people ask “what record will make fans happy?” My response was “the record matters less than signs of progress.” This game showed signs of progress.

  16. d-roca Says:

    Definitely Koetters offense, which he is a great coordinator. Glad hes learning to be a head coach too. Jameis is running the offense efficiently. Like most said youre both right. If i had to pick one tho id have to lean jameis. We all know no offense is any good without a good qb. Heck of a job by the O-line too. Lets give the big boys their due! Cmon boys mash the seahawks now. Go bucs

  17. Buc1987 Says:

    My thoughts eh?

    Well, well Joe’s it seems I should have been there at dinner for this discussion.

    I was talking about this very thing with my wife last night.

    I first mentioned what Koetter has done with scraps. Talked about it for awhile, then it turned into another JW conversation. I think we both decided that it’s a 2 headed monster. So I guess that doesn’t help your disagreement. This might though…

    Look. I’m 1000% sure that the Noles never win that National Championship without Jameis. Even with all the talent they had. I kept telling fans in here when they talked about a roster loaded with talent at FSU, that Jameis was a VERY big part of that talent.

    So in closing I’ll just go back to my old reliable statement that I’ve beat to death on your site and it goes like this…

    This is Jameis Winston’s team. Not Koetters, not Lichts, and not the Glazers.

    Jameis Winston’s team.

    He’s the head of the family. Enjoy!

  18. ToesOnTheLine!!! Says:

    It was an impressive road win for sure, but the win against the Steelers at Pittsburgh a couple years ago is still the most memorable regular season upset by the Bucs for me. The big difference with yesterday’s win is I believe this team still has a pulse and an outside chance to reach the playoffs with a little luck and a lot of help from other teams. If nothing else ending the season with a winning record is something they can control, a big improvement over the past two seasons.

  19. Buc1987 Says:

    Wombat…and all they said on NFL Network is the Chiefs have to be really kicking themselves after losing to Tampa.

    I understand why, don’t like it much, but soon they might be forced to talk about our beloved Bucs.

  20. Brandon Bob Says:

    Awesome win !!! Too bad we live a such a crappy sports area our local sports radio stations don’t even have a morning show to talk about our great win. That IS Pathetic! I am happy to say our Bucs are not!

  21. Big HogHaynes Says:

    I would assume I’m one of those so called frauds, good feelings all around this morning, I see you’ve taken that asinine mantra from THE REALIST! I contend that you are the fraudulent one, I know your not in any way comparing what Coach K inherited as a first time head coach, to the absolutely bunch of hot garbage left to LOVIE! I continue to say that LOVIE would have won 9 games this year so why not expect the same from Coach K (he was here last year) but if you guys want to be a part of the backwards thinking movement that had taken the U.S. By storm you have the right to do so!! GO BUCS STEP/UP AMERICA DOWN WITH BANNON & SESSIONS NOT MY PRESIDENT (gotta get that T-shirt)!!

  22. tmaxcon Says:

    Jameis even had more tackles than the 100 million dollar smiling ice cream man! This is Jameis’s team. simple as that.


    Stop with the lovie BS will ya. Lovie will always be the worst coach in buccaneer history. accept it. Just like Trump is your president… You are just having a horrible year. lovie ran out of town for being a disgrace, Trump Winning and now Lovie failing at a completely irrelevant football program in the cornfields. I’ll say one thing you are good at supporting failures and losers.

  23. Bucsfanman Says:

    Not only was it a great win, I felt like it was NOT Jameis best game.

    To the “disagreement”- It’s both, for now. There were a couple of play calls that were well thought out and then there were a few plays where Jameis made a play. I think it’s fair to say that Jameis will eventually take the reigns completely.

    Where’s Lavonte David?

  24. Buc1987 Says:

    BigHog…shut it down already. He’s not your president. We get it already. Obama is and he didn’t do jack squat for you. Sessions said the N word 30 years ago. Lot’s of people did. Including probably MANY whites that VOTED for Obama.

    Nobody’s going to listen to a dem these days, no matter how much they whine and bicker. Man I thought I hated Obama, then I was told that was racist. You can’t win either way. We’re ALL racists if we don’t vote Dem. We were told that in 2008 and we were told that in 2012 when Joe Biden told an all black audience that “republicans want to put you all back in chains.” It’s what your side does and has always done for decades. It’s finally gotten old as voters finally woke up.

    Oh yeah and Go Bucs.

  25. Lord Corn Says:

    I’m glad they aren’t talking about us. Good motivation to beat the Seahawks at home and then they will be forced to talk

    813- where u at man? Can you drop the Tomsula reference? Pretty sure he never went on the road and beat a team with that home record

  26. Bucsfanman Says:

    Guys, don’t let this rhetoric continue please. It’s a victory Monday and we’re talking politics!
    The system is rigged to pit us against each other. Who benefits? It’s not you ’87! It ain’t you BigHog! Pull the curtain back and ask yourself who “they” really work for. The people?! Please!
    Just cut it out!

  27. Buc1987 Says:

    BigHog….another thing. Obama blamed Bush for EVERYTHING. Right down to passing gas. That was GW’s fault. I hope Trump gets in there and does the same. I don’t see him doing it though as he has more respect for the presidency than I’m sure Obama does. FYI no other president before Obama bashed or blamed a former president the way Obama did AFTER being elected. It IS afterall beneath a president to do so.

    It’s not my fault blame Bush…..6 years into his presidency.

    Perhaps Koetter should blame Lovie if something isn’t working out so good.

    Why….why do I let this fool pull me into politics?

  28. Buc1987 Says:

    Bucsfanman….I’m done, but for the record I don’t trust ANYONE in D.C. not even Trump. I’m neutral and I’ll bash both sides when given the chance. I just point out what I observe. I follow politics, but not as much as I used to.

    But he drew first blood and I don’t see him letting up anytime soon. The other day I just ignored him, today is a nother matter, cause I’m a big Sessions fan.

    I’ll try my best to ignore his rants and statements the rest of the way.

    Cause ya know I’m all about the Bucs, bout the Bucs…no politics!

  29. Bucsfanman Says:

    Snap out of it ’87!

  30. Bucsfanman Says:

    Did you just use a Meghan Trainor reference?!
    I guess it’s 5 o’clock somewhere!!!

  31. BigHogHaynes Says:

    Buc1987: I come to this blog to post whatever I feel….free to do so, you have the right not to commit on anything I say, you have the right to internalize it and let it give you IBS! As a Black man, I was over the top giddy when Obama won the Presidency Twice, he handled it like no other has or ever will, even though the republican controlled Congress fought against everything the man wanted to do! Now you got the Rich & Dumb Trump a true opposite side f Obama! Let’s just see how it all works out! Due to respect to Bucsfanman, I will not post politics again untill after TRUMP takes office! GO BUCS!.

  32. Skipper Says:

    Buc1987, may I suggest you stick to football, your ignorance is on full display when trying to talk politics.

  33. The Buc Realist Says:

    The Buc Realist Says:
    November 21st, 2016 at 10:09 am
    A win under last year’s regime was a special event!!!!! Now wins are becoming expected!!!!! The Buc Realist and others that told you a win was coming yesterday!!!! We are now know to all joebucfan commentors as “The Bucs Oracles”!!!!!! I am now currently floating the idea of “amnesty to all lost buc fans that are starting to believe again!!!!! You can see in the Game Day Who told you!!!!!!

    The Buc Realist Says:
    August 11th, 2016 at 7:06 am
    12 hours till kick off!!!!!!!!!! 12 hours and we start NEW!!!!!! Can you smell the change in the air!!!!! Can you fell the excitment!!!!!!! People are talking about the Bucs again around town!!! I even see some Bucs gear here and there!!!!! Its time to be proud of this team again!!!!!!
    Proud to call ourselves Buc Fans!!!!!!

    I, on behalf of other Buc Fans will offer AMNESTY to any “sheep” or “lovie loyalist” to defect!!!! You have 12 hours, no questions will be asked!!!!! Choose wisely!!!!!! Because this will be the “FUN” side!!!!!

    Stay Healthy!!!

    GO Bucs!!!!!!!

  34. Bucsfanman Says:

    You’re all right BigHog! It’s just too divisive right now. I can talk politics with the best of ’em but it’s just too much right now. I’m still glowing over the big victory against the Chiefs!

    And, the way we did it?!

  35. 813bucboi Says:

    @lord….great team win….dirk used great play calling…smitty has the defense playing good….great win vs a quality opponent on the road….anything negative would be nitpicking…..playoffs look like a real thing….I actually have a little faith in this team….just bought tickets to the seahawks game….dirk has earned my respect….GO BUCS!!!!

  36. Bucsfanman Says:

    @Realist- I still have yet to decide if I fall under the term “sheep”. For the sake of verification, what qualifies as a “sheep”?

    I still think that you have to have talent on a team to win. This team is more talented than last year’s.

    Great W!

  37. Bucsfanman Says:


  38. The Buc Realist Says:


    yesterday tell me where the big talent upgrade is from last year?? Coaching Is a talent too!!!!!!!!!

    And that is the best part of Amnesty!!!! it does not matter what “label” we fall under!!!! I am done, fighting with my Buccaneer Brothers here on JBF!!!!!!!! I want to talk trash to other teams fans now!!!!! For years I have called the Bucs out on many issues!!! This year We have told you that is changing!!!!! Come to the fun side!!!!!!!

    Go America!!!!!!!

    And Go Bucs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  39. Bucsfanman Says:

    @Realist- Well, I was going to say emphatically, the secondary. However, Grimes did go out early. Looking at the rest, it’s hard to argue your point!
    Look, I’m with you in that I tire of arguing with my fellow fans. I will state this: Both coaching AND talent make a difference. I don’t like dwelling on last year so, in the spirit of a big Buc victory AND “amnesty”, I hearby bury the hatchet! (No pun intended, Chiefs fans!)
    The Seahawks ARE beatable! If we play solid football, we can send them nuclear yellow jerseys back to Seattle where it’s nice and gray and miserable!

  40. orlbucfan Says:

    The Bucs won this game cos they were the better team. They did not figure out how to lose the game. THAT has always driven this long-time, devoted, life-long political Lefty fan BONKERS!! I made my political statement. Seriously guys, we’re all in this Bucs thing together. So, let’s just talk Bucs, okay? We beat the Kansas City Chiefs in Arrowhead Stadium. HOW SWEET IT IS!!!!! 🙂 Bring on the Seaturkeys!!

  41. Pickgrin Says:

    It was a big win against a good team in a very tough stadium.

    All 3 phases of the team did a good job for the most part.

    Koetter called a good offensive game and Jameis executed it well.

    A big win for our Buccaneers.

    Yes – a 5-5 record three weeks into November does give a team a glimmer of hope that they might make the playoffs. But they are going to have to go on a hell of a run to even make it to the big dance.

    The Bucs only real chance of getting to the playoffs is by winning the division. It usually takes either 11 or at least 10 wins to earn a wild card spot. So yea – the team has obviously improved – but improved enough to run the table for the next 6 games?? or at worst lose 1 game out of the next 6??

    Even the most optimistic would have to admit that is probably not going to happen.

    We basically need to pray that Atlanta falls apart like they did to finish the season last year – AND hope that neither Carolina nor New Orleans gets hot -while also winning at least 4 of the next 6 games.

    Doable? Yes – With Winston at QB, anything is now possible
    Likely? No

    At least the Bucs have proven vs KC that they can beat a team that is likely to be around in the post season.

  42. Bucsfan951 Says:

    Did I just agree with tmax?… Yup! Well said, sir.

  43. America's Commenter Says:

    Whoa, Nellie! The Joes need to slow their roll a bit. It’s hilarious to watch the Joes swing from one extreme to the other. When the Bucs got crushed by the Falcons on TNF three games ago, this place was all doom and gloom. Now the Bucs get an unlikely win and you’re talking about closing out the season 4-2 and making the playoffs.

    While it’s fun to have legitimate playoff hopes around Thanksgiving, there’s still a lot of football to play. While it’s certainly possible for the Bucs to close out the season 4-2, it’s equally likely they will go 2-4. The 5 wins so far are impressive and show promise to get to 8-8 or better, but this is a Jekyll and Hyde team with a history of folding down the stretch. Let’s take it one game at a time and see how the season plays out.

  44. Buccfan37 Says:

    These Bucs show a lot of promise moving forward. Gaining momentum by winning at KC when few expected a Bucs win Is huge. The world feels lighter after this Bucs win. I think every game left will be hotly contested by our quickly improving Bucs.

  45. DB55 Says:

    The GMC and Conte haters – there are many — must have wanted to snort Clorox
    Nah, Conte didn’t fk up and bite on the run and GMC put his hands up. That’s what they are supposed to do and if they did their job correctly more often there would be no haters.

    What kills me is the people who praise guys with 6+ yrs experience for simply doing their job while critizing a 2yr QB for throwing a high pass or two.

    I just don’t get it.

  46. BucSince1988 Says:

    Go buccaneers!!! Great win..If we win at home Against Seattle I believe we will win our Division over Atlanta Falcons.. Fire them cannons!!!

  47. Bucsfanman Says:

    Don’t get out of sorts DB55. There’s plenty of GMC hate on other threads today.
    Think about this: How good is Jameis if he doesn’t sail those passes? I mean come on. He’s so close to being a great QB!

  48. DB55 Says:

    How good is Jameis if he doesn’t sail those passes? I mean come on. He’s so close to being a great QB!
    Show me a QB that completes 100% or even 90% of their passes and I’ll shut up. Yesterday he completed 62% and last week 69% what more do you want?

  49. Cobraboy Says:

    Aguayo is kicking through the ball, head down and shoulders square, and not aiming it with an upward arc as before.

    The difference is remarkable. And straighter.

  50. Aaron Says:

    Love the win…biggest road win since philly on our road to the SB. Liked the win in their new stadium on Monday night too.

    One game at a time. I think we matched up well with KC…lots of good QBs on our schedule left to play

  51. Bucsfanman Says:

    DB55- All I’m saying is that he CAN be better. Geez!