Glazers “Are Very Thoughtful”

January 17th, 2016


Team Glazer left the spotlight to their new head coach, after attentively smiling in the front row during Dirk Koetter’s introductory news conference at One Buc Palace on Friday.

Corporate-style photos of Koetter and Team Glazer together came next, and then the owners gracefully but quickly exited behind the main stage.

One might find that evidence of Team Glazer being detached from the Bucs’ coaching search and firing. But general manager Jason Licht painted a very different picture.

“Everything that they do here, the Glazers, was very thoughtful, think through everything,” Licht said. ‘I feel I have the same philosophy. At one point, he became the leader, and somebody was going to have to knock it off. I interviewed and I talked to and I researched a lot of great football coaches, lot of great ones. But it just became apparent, the more and more I talked to Dirk, that he was the guy.”

Thought-provoking there is the direct mention of Team Glazer going all analytical and detailed with the surprising take down of Lovie Smith to the hiring of Koetter.

When Joe puts all clear facts on the table, and after seeing and listening to all the talk from Bucs’ officials in person, Joe sense it was all Team Glazer when it came to firing Lovie. Joe thinks Licht provided ownership an honest postseason grade of Lovie and his duties. That grade was slightly below average, Joe believes, but without a recommendation to fire him. Kind of like a fourth-grader who gets a few Fs on a report card but still gets moved to fifth grade.

Team Glazer, though, had other plans — plans for immediate repair and replacement of the Bucs’ defense while maintaining continuity for America’s Quarterback, Jameis Winston.

100 Responses to “Glazers “Are Very Thoughtful””

  1. MadMax Says:

    They were tired of Loser Lovie……just like the rest of us!

    Thank You Glazers!!

  2. StPeteBucsFan Says:

    Kind of like a fourth-grader who gets a few Fs on a report card but still gets moved to fifth grade.


    That is a great simile!!! It’s a perfect comparison. Which I think explains the group of us who were OK were willing to give Lovie one more year. We felt sorry for the 4th grader!!! But we all knew he was in deep dooty and maybe over his head.

  3. Dooshlarue Says:

    Sorry, off-topic question.
    Who won the win/loss/division record/division rank contest you hadbefore the season?
    I checked the archives but didn’t find anything.
    I know I was very close.

    Go Bucs!

  4. Ray Rice Says:

    “I play to win,” Arians said.

    “Most teams play the prevent,” Arians said. “That’s what Betch was going to play. I said, ‘Hell no. Blitz him. [Aaron Rodgers] made a great throw. I thought that Calais [Campbell] was held, but it still ended up being a touchdown.”

    Excited about Koetter hire. I also think he fits this bill too. If he is anything like Arians then prepare for the ride fans. I know I’m ready.

  5. Luther Says:

    Looks like the Glazers changed the participation trophy to “Loser” and made a change.

  6. The Buc Realist Says:

    Joe’s theory is just that, A theory that makes relevant of his past prediction!! Licht gave lovie a failing grade with recommendation of removal from school!! (so much for the no child left behind!!)

    They all gave lovie a last ditch stand with the offseason meeting to give a knock out plan with drastic changes. But he did not!! And unfortantely for lovie and the Tampa2 mafia, the owners had watched the games!!!

  7. macabee Says:

    I looked up the number of coaches Super Bowl winning teams have had over the last 40 years – a period of time comparable to the Bucs years in existence. I divided 40 by the number of coaches hired in that period to get average number of years per contract.

    Patriots – 40/8 = 5.01
    Cowboys – 40/8 = 5.01
    Giants – 40/8 = 5.01
    Packers – 40/7 = 5.71,
    Steelers – 40/3 = 13.3,
    Bucs – 40/11 = 3.63

    The Steelers have had just 3 coaches in the last 40 years – Chuck Noll, Bill Cowher, and Mike Tomlin. The Steelers now have 34 playoff wins in franchise history, tying them with the Dallas Cowboys for most of any NFL team. If the Steelers can beat the Denver Broncos in the divisional round, they will take sole possession of the mark.

    My point here is that stability matters. The Bucs have not averaged the length of a typical NFL coach’s contract – 4 years. Not every year for the SB teams were winners, but they stayed the course, fixed the problems and eventually won big. Oh, and let me add they all had franchise QBs. The Glazer are very thoughtful people, but they need to figure out how to stop playing fantasy football with HCs. Let’s hope this is the beginning of a culture change!

  8. Elle Says:

    Maybe the Glazers ought to think less and let others do the thinking. If the team has been utter s*it is because of them and the friggen coaches they hired ever since firing Chucky. STAY THE FU** out of any football decisions. Just be the owners and rip the rewards once the team is WINNING, because others have done that critical thinking FOR YOU, people who actually know football.

  9. Kevin Says:

    I will never forget the look on jason lichts face toward the end of the last game in carolina. He just shook his head, closed his eys and looked down. When I saw that I knew it was decided. Cant day I believe Jason liqht had nothing to do with lovies termination. Although I do think it was a very hard thing for him to go through with.

  10. Tampabaybucfan Says:

    @ Macabee

    If the Glazers had stuck with Chucky…..then we would have the same average as Green Bay.

  11. AceofAerospace Says:

    Yeah, I think we should have kept Gruden, but we didn’t. Keeping Morris, Schiano or Smith just for continuity, I believe would have been a mistake. The first two showed some promise, but not enough. Smith stunk from day one, Mcnown. I hope Koetter is successful. I hope he’s our coach until he has to start getting super bowl toe rings because he’s out of fingers. However, if he proves to be as dumb as Lovie (he won’t), then bu bye.

  12. Elle Says:

    Exactly, that’s the point right there. You keep coaches who you know can do well. Why was Gruden fired? For a total collapse in December and thus failing to get in the postseason, as was expected. In my eyes, that will never cease to be a BAD decision. Since Gruden was fired, the “geniuses”at the top decided to hire three coaches, one worse than the one they had succeeded, and a GM who was mostly clueless, despite Joe’s “rock star” epithet. Enough of that BS now. Licht is probably the most competent GM we’ve ever had, let HIM make such decisions. I hope that Koetter was Licht’s idea and the Glazers simply went along with it. Because if I’ll ever find out that Licht wanted to bring in someone else, but the Glazers forced Koetter’s promotion, then I swear, I’m gonna be done with this franchise.

  13. Larry Johnson Says:

    Holy crappie we have to deal with cam Newton for years to come. Bucs better step their game up soon

  14. lurker Says:

    gruden was not the answer. just because poor choices for coaches were made doesn’t mean chucky should have stayed. there were issues with jon gruden.

    also, all that work macabee, and it means nothing! there are too many variables beside coach that is not accounted for. you even said, and most will agree, that a franchise qb is an important factor. i know you are trying to prove your point but it is not an immutable fact, sorry.

  15. lurker Says:

    31-0 in the second…ouch. damn panthers.

  16. StPeteBucsFan Says:


    YES!!! Wow and to think I was upset that my workout would make me miss the second half. I was hoping this game was #2 so I could watch all of it.

    Thanks heavens it was #1…talk about turning a game off at the half!!!

    The sobering fact is that the team kicking butt is in our division!!! Not going to be easy for Koetter and #3.

  17. Elle Says:


    Yeah, you’re probably right, it was time to move on anyway. Still, the decisions that were made after that firing made the whole thing look like a bad deal for everybody involved. I know that hindsight is 20/20, but what else should fans think tho? Morris was hired and it didn’t work. Schiano was hired and it didn’t work. Lovie was hired and it didn’t work. That’s 3 out of 3, it’s only natural to think that perhaps the team would have fared better under Gruden for another year. I’m no Gruden groupie and I’ve moved on a long time ago. I loved him and I still do, tho. With him at the helm we were relevant, for the most part, and I can only hope that we can get back to respectability soon enough, with Koetter now.

  18. Howard Cosell Says:

    Yeah Joe. It was definitely Team Glazer not Licht. No doubt about that.

    Howard wasn’t expecting Lovie to get fired and Koetter to be HC and Licht to get roster control and then get a former HC frpm a playoff team, whose old was buddies with Koetter to be DC. That would have been too perfect. But here we are. Howard hasn’t felt this positive since Gruden days.

    the final piece of the puzzle is stacks and stacks of cap cash for an arsenal of well-selected and vetted Jason Licht selections.

  19. crazy Says:

    I suspect Lovie’s decision to take over DC responsibilities was in response to last year’s review with the Brothers. We may not have realized how thin the ice was underneath him but I bet Lovie knew which also likely explains why he didn’t think there was any point meeting in person and fighting for his job. It looks to me like the Brothers handled Lovie’s tenure with a lot more objectivity and professionalism than we give them credit for.

  20. Fritz59 Says:

    So, the Glazers get the blame for all the futility under that Racist , Rat Bas…id Culverhouse? So going one and done, EVERY YEAR (except the one with the collapse) since the big dance, means we should’a kept Gruden ? What world do you live in? All that doesn’t excuse them for Raheem or Schiano, but NO ONE foresaw just how bad Smith would be. And I agree he was worse than both of them. I can see why “continuity” might not be high in the Glazers list, look where the it got them with their first coaching pick. Gruden started with the ultimate success, gave us years of hopeful mediocrity, and ended with a whimper. Seems like after the Big Game, Gruden gave us the Bengals, seriously,anyone want to continue that? Yeah, they reached for the next two, but Smith was the “safe” pick, that most, at least, agreed with. So which way do you want them to go? It’s easy to say they screwed up everything after Gruden, a hell of a lot harder to better. As always, hind sight is 20-20.

  21. Elle Says:


    Speak for yourself. I didn’t want Lovie here to begin with. I thought that he was way overrated even during his best days in Chicago. I’ve always thought that the game had passed him by by a mile, and we’ve seen it in the last two years in Tampa. I’ve been following and rooting for this team ever since my daddy sat me down at the Sombrero. I’ve watched all kind of Bucs teams, most of which were simply dreadful. This team has a bad history of losing and it’s often regarded more as a nice vacation destination than anything else.

    Then came Malcolm Glazer and the music changed. First the Dungy era and then the Super Bowl triumph under Gruden. That’s our only Lombardi so far and I quite frankly don’t understand why a fan shouldn’t remember Gruden fondly. Because he won with Dungy’s team? Always thought that was pure BS, right there. He provided that spark that the Bucs needed to win it all, and it really happened in the end. And ever since the “boys” took over and Gruden was fired, things have gone downhill, fast.

    I don’t know about you guys, but to me being a “fanatic” doesn’t mean that you just have to root for your team, no matter what. I want to win. I want a relevant team. I don’t like Green Bay socialist crap, but the fans are the most crucial aspect of the entire NFL business, and fans are entitled to b*tch when b*tching is truly justified. I’m gonna complain for as long as I want, until I see a real change for the better here. That’s what it means to be a true fan to me. DEMANDING that your team and everybody associated to said team give their best every damn Sunday. Now I can only hope that Koetter and his coaching stuff will be able to change the putrid culture of losing attached to this team ever since John Gruden was showed to the door.

  22. Eric Says:

    Well we are where we are.

    I’ve been moaning about them firing Chucky on here for six years.

    Time to move on.

    Defended Lovie all year.

    Time to move on.

    Go Dirk. Expecting great things…….

  23. Howard Cosell Says:

    Fritz, your reply reads like a disjointed manifesto. Not sure what your point is. The Glazers have been crappy owners since 2002 (as far as building an exciting, winning team). Period. Glad to see that they appear to be putting in more effort, or getting luckier or whatever since they hired Licht.

    In what world (except the surrealistic NFL) is a business owner not responsible for the state of his company? No one is comparing the Glazers to Culverhouse in anything other than wins. And since 2002 they’ve been pretty similar.

  24. Buccfan37 Says:

    So the fans in Green Bay who invest and own part of the team are socialist crap? That’s a funny one.

  25. BuccaneerBonzai Says:

    The Buc Realist Says
    “Licht gave lovie a failing grade with recommendation of removal from school!!”



    Seriously though…I think the Glazers and Licht are being given too much credit.

    The Glazers were concerned Koetter would take a head coaching job. Because the defense was not addressed yet, and the offense was, they chose keeping Koetter over keeping Lovie.

    Here’s the thing…just like always, I think they panicked and jumped the gun. There were no indications that Koetter would actually GET one of the head coaching jobs. Was he offered one at all?

    I think the Glazers asked our inept GM what the chances were that they would lose Koetter, and he said they were high. Indirectly, that led to the Glazers firing Lovie and giving the job to Koetter.

    Dirk Koetter has interviewed for Head Coaching jobs multiple times over the years. Some feel it was his way of increasing his value to his current team, and there for increase his pay. It’s a smart move.

    In this case, it led to a job with the home team.

    In the end, it may just work out. The hiring of Mike Smith may just save his job. Smith was a good head coach. At worse, Mike Smith may be Koetter’s replacement down the road.

    Keep in mind though, that Mike Smith only took the job to increase his chances of getting a head coaching job NEXT year…so he will take a hike the first chance he gets if he isn’t given a better offer here.

  26. Elle Says:

    You’re funny too, Buccfan37, labeling the opinion of someone you don’t even know as funny, without even bothering to ask what they think exactly. I respect the fact that fans there own a part of their franchise, but I don’t have to like it, do I? I don’t like the systematic infiltration of socialist ideas in American sports. But I don’t want to talk politics on a site that is supposed to be about football, specifically one team in the NFL, the Bucs. So let me just say that I prefer corporate America to that socialist crap. I like the traditional structure. A football team is no different than a normal business. There has to be a clear owner and people who support said owner in the decision-making process, or people who make those decisions for the owner – as the Glazers should strongly consider from now onward.

    Fans can still invest in the franchise and support it without actually owning it. How? You spend money on it. You buy season tickets, you buy merchandise. No need for that socialist crap.

  27. BuccaneerBonzai Says:

    crazy Says
    “I suspect Lovie’s decision to take over DC responsibilities was in response to last year’s review with the Brothers.”

    I suspect he never wanted Leslie Frazier at all. He wanted Rod, and that didn’t work out, so Licht (in theory) forced Frazier on him.

    People may not recall this, but when the rumors that they were considering Frazier surfaced, I was 100% against it. I said that the players would not respect him (they didn’t) and discipline would be a problem (it was). I said that this would stem from their feelings toward the way he treated Josh Freeman, who we may not care about, but at the time half the team here did.

    When they hired Frazier, I said it was the biggest mistake they could make.

  28. StPeteBucsFan Says:

    In what world (except the surrealistic NFL) is a business owner not responsible for the state of his company?

    Oh in many worlds Howard. We love to delude ourselves that we are in a ‘free market” society. That’s only true at the very fringe…most of the $$ are already divided by special the NFL..MLB…NBA..NHL…get your production facilities…stadiums…paid for by welfare…er tax incentives and “investments”.

    But it’s all over society..can you say Duke Power? Why do you suppose we lag so far behind in Solar Power in Florida…free enterprise…Duke has poisoned lakes in their home state of NC…they’ve hosed Floridians bigtime but nobody will pay…except for Duke to our state lege.

    Back to sports…you guys are missing the major event in the chain of events.

    Rah and Schiano were NOT mistakes. They worked incredibly well for the Glazers. Man U was a gamble they took and pulled off! It was great for the Glazers…not so good for the Buc fans.

    The NFL does not have secrets. EVERYBODY knew the Glazers plans. NO decent coach with even a minimal resume was going to take the job…the Glazers knew that…the BILLIONS were more important than us…does that disturb you? Really? It’s the American Way!!!

    And so stop calling Rah and Schiano mistakes!!! They served a critical purpose.

    Letting Chucky go early is a great debate…I appreciate both sides so I won’t take one. And in fairness the looming ManU deal may have also influenced Chucky’s ouster.

    As for Lovie….NO EXCUSES!!! Just a bad move…but at least they cut their losses early so give them credit for that.

  29. StPeteBucsFan Says:

    BTW During the Sternberg land grab in St. Pete I did a LOT of studying about stadiums and their costs and their overruns.

    Stu’s boy..Michael Kalt was 30% OVER BUDGET with Yankee stadium.
    Who wouldn’t trust a guy with a record like that.

    In fairness to Stu and Kalt…EVERY stadium in the past two decades or more including the ones that were simple redo’s of existing structures came in over budget except for ONE!!!..Yep it was those Socialist Packer fans who brought their 140 MILLION dollar project in on budget. And those socialists actually included environmental protections…why worry when we could all be drinking lead in our water.

  30. Elle Says:


    I usually agree with what you write here, but sadly this time I find myself at the opposite end of the spectrum. Morris and Schiano were mistakes. Like Lovie Smith, the Bucs had no hope of improving under them. If there’s something you gotta give the Glazers credits for is the fact that they were able to understand their mistakes and correct them. Unfortunately, they fixed the Morris mistake with another one, and then the Schiano mistake with the biggest mistake of all, better known as Lovie Smith.

    That’s why I’ve been writing here that the Glazers should just enjoy being the owners. I don’t want them to be directly involved in football-related decisions. They own Manchester United, and that wasn’t a gamble at all. Manchester United has always been one of the most prominent soccer franchises in the history of the sport, well before the Glazers took over. What do they do there? They’re just the owners. They employ British people, or individuals of other nationalities anyway, who know soccer like their pockets and make all the decisions for them. Quite frankly, I don’t understand why the same hasn’t happened for the Bucs.

  31. Buccfan37 Says:

    Elle… socialist crap is a political statement… StPeteBucs Fan, Thanks for pointing out the criminality behind the Florida power companies. No solar power in the Sunshine state, that’s stupid and unacceptable. This present Tallahassee power cabal defends it.

  32. Elle Says:


    I’m fully aware of that and I stand behind it. It’s a political statement alright. but it came out like that, I wasn’t really planning on getting into some kind of debate about the community-owned Packers and what it means in the big picture, especially on a site that has nothing to do with politics. Apologies if I seemed aggressive to you. I reckon that you don’t share the same opinion, so let’s just agree to disagree and leave it at that.

  33. HIRE JIMBO Says:

    I suspect he never wanted Leslie Frazier at all. He wanted Rod, and that didn’t work out, so Licht (in theory) forced Frazier on him.

    This has to be THE stupidest thing I have seen u post. And u have posted some really stupid stuff.
    LOVIE PICKED HIS STAFF. STOP TRYING TO PIN LOSER LOVIES FAILURES ON LICHT. U have such a hard on for Lovie that u can’t see that we have a really good Gm.

  34. HIRE JIMBO Says:

    I live in Wisconsin and I know of alot of people that have “Ownership” of the Packers. It means absolutely NOTHING. It is just a clever way for the Packers to raise $ for renovations. They only sell shares of the team when they need $. The owners/fans have absolutely no say in anything.

  35. lurker Says:

    ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh it’s time for a reasonable mind. when it gets here, let me know!

    first of all, socialism and socialist are not dirty words. but most republicans are brain-washed. the corporatization of america has really screwed it up. just look at health care and the insurance companies. but this is not the place.

    secondly, some seem down on citizens owning teams. that seems to be more sensible than billionaires holding cities, counties, and states hostage. billionaires should not need “public funds”, or assistance, for their stadiums. and yet revenue is not shared…hmmmmm. poor st. louis. and they supported their team. and let us not forget that the nfl has an anti-trust exemption.

    third, as to our coaches, gruden was booted. there was more to it than the 4 game skid and the mediocrity after the superbowl. needless to say, i bet both gruden and the glazers regret some things that were said and done.

    after the deed was done, the glazers promoted raheem morris to defensive coordinator. when denver asked to interview raheem for its hc opening, the glazers got spooked and interviewed raheem for its in-house opening. raheem was supposed to be the next mike tomlin, the one that got away. raheem was hired, a bit too young and inexperienced i would say, along with mark dominick. he was only a dc for 1 or 2 weeks, lol.

    after raheem, the glazers made a play for chip the dip. a deal was made but chip then had second thoughts. he backed out. the glazers and dominick panicked and went with schiano. they wanted to try a college coach, obviously, and went that direction.

    after schiano was let go amid mrsa and the josh freeman saga, the “search” was on again. the glazers and fans wanted the glory years back and gruden was a no-go, but lovie was hoped to be the guy. it was praised by most fans and pundits, though this fan was against it. i wanted an offensive-minded coach, perhaps a hot coordinator, not a defensive retread from the mediocre bears.

    now we are to the present. i believe the glazers were hands off. they might have mentioned a preference, but i believe after the previous misfires they let licht control the process. there were too many positives to go with koetter. i just hope that it isn’t like the rush to raheem, which probably hindered his progression to head coach and dc. but koetter has been a oc for many years for 3 teams, different coaches, and was a head coach of 2 college programs. so we shall see.

    the glazers want to win just as bad as the fans do, perhaps more.

  36. Buccaneers Says:

    You know I read all these comments and hated words about Lovie Smith are out of control!!! It’s the lack of respect that gets me.

    First off, Lovies coaching from the sideline was bad. His team was overrun with sloppy football players that couldn’t get out of their own ways. These players lost us game after game in 2015. Lovie deserves a bunch of critism for this and his firing was justifiable.

    I just think Lovie Smith deserves more respect and the name calling is inaccurate. Consider what Lovie built here. Whether you know it or not the Bucs are set up nicely with a lot of great pieces for future winning.

    Drafting is the lifeblood of a football franchise. The Lovie Smith regime drafted 5(or more) solid NFL players in the past 2 years….. That is extraordinary and very difficult to have that much drafting success.

    Lovie brought in Jason Licht and Dirk Koetter. If we are going to praise the work of these two let’s also be thankful they work for our team. You have to credit Smith for hiring these two. This franchise has been managed by idiots before……this shows you that assembling a great coaching staff is not easy by any means.

    You can be thankful Lovies gone, at the same time Lovie does deserve some credit for the good things he left here. Our last three coaches left us shipwrecked on Treasure Island.

  37. HIRE JIMBO Says:

    Lovie also shipped out good talent like Revis Island.

  38. StPeteBucsFan Says:


    Thanks for your response. I love debating with civil people. And kudos to you and all who participated in the Chucky debate…well done with civility!

    But back to your point…

    that wasn’t a gamble at all. Manchester United has always been one of the most prominent soccer franchises in the history of the sport, well before the Glazers took over.

    You are correct that ManU is one of the most prominent franchises not just in soccer but in all the sports world. I’m no soccer expert so I’ll let one of them chime in and say whether Madrid or Barca are more valued.

    But it was a huge gamble for the Glazers because they leveraged themselves up to the hilt! If they had unlimited deep pockets perhaps I would take your point.
    But they mortgaged a lot including the Bucs. When the 2008 crash hit it almost did them in because of the imminent crash of the financial world.

    They obviously made it through the lean times and now they are truly flush with ManU clearly profitable. But they are hated there even more than here.

    Back to Rah and Schiano. From the perspective of a Bucs fan or any football fan…I agree with you 100% they look like stupid mistakes. Neither of those guys was ever qualified to even be interviewed for an HC position much less be given one.

    And so…Rah and Schiano…horrible football decisions..but necessary business decisions for the Glazer empire. Did it suck for us…yep…but I do understand it.

  39. Elle Says:


    I just don’t like the very concept behind it. I’m perfectly fine with a franchise being owned by some rich dudes. And if said rich people screw it up, somehow, a fan has always the option to stop caring and stop wasting money on a product that shouldn’t be supported. It doesn’t matter whether the fans in Wisconsin have a real say or not. They’re shareholders of a professional football team and the very idea just doesn’t sit well in my mind. I take orders for a living and I answer to people in uniforms who would kick my ass if I disagreed or disregarded said orders, so probably I’m brainwashed in that fashion. I’m used to a certain structure. I just don’t like the concept of the many owning something like a football franchise.

    Look at me, I stated that I didn’t want to get into this kinda debate, but I did anyway. Oh well, that’s my opinion, and you don’t have to agree with it, of course.

  40. StPeteBucsFan Says:


    Just wrote a response for you. Awaiting moderation…must have had a questionable word. Hopefully it’ll get through eventually. LOL.

    I appreciate any poster who approaches this play with civility and rational thoughts. You are certainly one of those hopefully it gets through. 🙂

  41. Elle Says:


    Thank you, I appreciate it ^^ I’ll read your reply when Joe lets it through, then, and I’ll reply later on. And likewise, I enjoy reading your take on all things Bucs here on JBF, even if we don’t always agree. I read so many things here, there are so many opinions. It isn’t always easy to be rational, and I know for a fact that sometimes I just let my emotions do the talking for me. But we’re only human beings in the end, and our very nature is flawed.

  42. lurker Says:

    a person’s experiences, family, and location influence their opinions on matters. i wonder how many people here would be christians if they were born or lived in india, japan, iran, or elsewhere.

  43. lurker Says:

    “It isn’t always easy to be rational…”

    religion, politics, and sports (fanatic, like you stated) are such topics that bring out the irrational in people.

  44. StPeteBucsFan Says:


    Tried to get a post through but not having luck. Simply google who owns the Packers. Had a response for you from a friend who actually owns stock but having trouble with technical gremlins tonight.

  45. Buccaneers Says:

    @hire jimbo……. Smith got rid of one good player with Revis. What about the guys I mentioned? Huh? What about Mike Evans, Jamie’s Winston, Ali Market, Dovavan Smith, Whom Alexander, Dirk Koetter, Jason Light? What do you have to say about them?

  46. Bucs Fan #7423 Says:



  47. Buccfan37 Says:

    The Toussaint fumble might have been curtains for the Steelers. I’m predicting Patriots vs Carolina in SB, the rematch. I hope Pittsburgh has a 2 minute comeback here.

  48. Buccaneers Says:

    When will Steve Groskowski become a free agent. We need him kicking on our team.

  49. Buccaneers Says:

    I just hope the NFC wins it……….So tired of seeing the same exact teams for the AFC every single year. It’s starting to feel like a rerun.

  50. HIRE JIMBO Says:

    I credit all of those DRAFT picks to licht. The only thing Loser Lovie did was bring in licht and koetter and lose enough games to draft jameis. Lovie gets no love from me.

  51. Bucs Fan #7423 Says:

    Lovie sucks. His garbage scheme didn’t work and he didn’t change it. That’s why i’m glad he got fired. I don’t feel sorry for Lovie because he has over 10 million dollars in his pocket.

  52. Elle Says:


    agreed, certain topics tend to draw out irrationality more than others. Football is certainly one of them. As long as that irrationality remains civil, then I don’t necessarily see it as something negative. Everybody has an opinion on everything, it’s a fact of life. People who can’t deal with the fact that an opinion might not always be shared by those surrounding you often become bothersome. Something we often see on the Internet for example, on places such as JBF, where people can freely – more or less – discuss the relevant subject.

    At the end of the day, I’m not going to pull my hair because the Packers are a non-profit, community-owned franchise. If that’s their way and they like it, then it’s their way. I don’t have to appreciate the concept behind it, though, and at the same time I have no intention of voicing my displeasure by organizing a picket under their building. The subject came out in my previous comment and it took sort of a life of its own, but I don’t really care that much in the end ^^

  53. Tampabaybucfan Says:

    @ Elle

    I somewhat agree with you that the Glazers should enjoy owning the team and leave the football decisions to someone else….the only problem with that is they would be choosing that person.
    We are assuming that Licht is the right person but we don’t know that….he is 8-24 just like Lovie was……he has to prove himself…
    If he turns out to be the right guy…I’m sure they will delegate….but if he isn’t, we’re back to square one.

  54. Buccaneers Says:

    I’m not saying to feel sorry for Lovie or that he deserves love. What I did say is that the name calling was innacurate.

    You can blame Lovie for all you want and most of it will be accurate. Despite that the Buccaneers currently have more talent on their team then they have had in the past decade. If you don’t see that then you just must not have been watching.

    The brunt of this talent has come from the draft. The draft is where almost every championship team builds their core players. If you think Lovie Smith had no part in our drafts that is completly wrong. Every football mind in our front office was assembled by Lovie Smith. Whether Lovie Smith stepped away from draft decisions entirely or if he was the a key dictator it was a good decision.

    The fact, is none of us were in the warroom and we don’t know. What we do know is that Lovie Smith built that warroom and it was a success. Whatever Lovie Smith did worked.

    Be glad Lovie is gone if you wish. But acknowledge the fact that he took control of a talentless franchise and pumped us with a surge of young talent. If our new direction under Koetter can continue this trend we will become a true contender.

  55. Elle Says:


    I know and you’re right. They’ll never completely stay out of it. They’re the owner and they’ll always be entitled to pick whoever they think could make decisions for them. But there’s a slight difference, in my opinion. Hiring a GM every four, five years – if things don’t work out – is different compared to hiring a coach every two years and being directly involved and having the final say in that decision. Now, I understand they decided to fire Lovie and I’m full support of that particular decision, but I can’t say that I can easily forget the fact that they’ve picked three coaches that collectively have done much harm and little good to this franchise.


    I bet Lovie couldn’t care less about the name calling. He’s a millionaire and now he’s gonna get paid to do nothing. I don’t question him as a man of integrity, as a good person. I’m sure people here only judge him as a football coach, or at lest that’s what he should be judged for, nothing else. As a coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers he has failed, it’s “simple as that”.

    I’m not one of those fans who assume to know better. I never worked in the NFL, I’m just a fan and I judge what I see. And what I see is a franchise that hasn’t been relevant in years. I’m not gonna say a single word against Koetter and his coaching staff unless a full football season is under their belts and I have concrete facts to evaluate. Until then, second guessing the staff they’re assembling and whatever moves they’ll make in free agency and the draft would be a counterproductive form of criticism that fans should avoid. Like the annoying last year’s debate about Winston vs Mariota. How can people know who’s gonna be better in the NFL without waiting to judge on solid facts is a concept that eludes my comprehension. You can have a preference, of course, but even that preference might become irrelevant if it doesn’t reflect reality. Only a football field can give you solid facts and a reality that you can witness with your own eyes and judge with your own rationale, something that a lot of people often seem to forget.

  56. lurker Says:

    “Be glad Lovie is gone if you wish. But acknowledge the fact that he took control of a talentless franchise and pumped us with a surge of young talent.”

    he dumped just as much talent as he brought in, if he brought any. he also wasted millions of dollars and time with the free agent acquisitions. lovie was a waste of 2 years. you have no idea that lovie brought in licht, the scouts, or anybody on the non-coaching side. the only thing most people say lovie did right was getting the first pick in the draft…not picking it.

  57. NCBuc Says:

    Wow! The one time I agree with Lurker……

  58. NCBuc Says:

    He let go of a lot more talent then he brought in. If you can’t see that…. Then you’re a fool. And I don’t cross posters often cause we all see things a bit different

  59. NCBuc Says:

    And besides the QB, we had more talent 3 years ago

  60. Buccaneers Says:

    When Lovie Smith was hired it was reported that he was in control. So I do know that lurker. He indeed was responsible for bringing in a front office that replaced all the College Boys that Schiano brought in. When the Glazers cut ties with Sciano and Dominick they handpicked Smith and gave him the power to find guys he wanted to fill any holes including GM.

    He didn’t let that much talent go, aside from Revis there’s little to critize there. Lovie will get scorned for his W-L record but a keen eye can see that he brought in multiple pieces that set the Bucs up nicely. I’m not trying to protest his firing. He had a lot of flaws, that’s for sure. But it seems many are acting like the guy was clueless which is close minded when you give consideration to all the tasks he had while here in Tampa.

  61. Buccaneers Says:

    OK I’ll correct myself. Lovie let Michael Bennet go too. I had thought he left a year prior.

  62. Buccaneers Says:

    And NC you can’t just say “besides the QB” it doesn’t work that way bro.

  63. Elle Says:

    But isn’t winning and losing the ultimate deciding factor after it’s all said and done? Yes, perhaps Lovie has brought here interesting pieces, but what does it matter if he can’t use said pieces properly when he steps on the sideline of a football field? I’m no football coach, that’s for sure, but his record in Tampa provides all you need to know. Perhaps it might be fair to say that he isn’t too shabby as a talent evaluator, but X’s and O’s are not his forte, that much seem evident to me and ultimately it’s the reason why he isn’t a head coach anymore. He shouldn’t have been rewarded because of his ability to bring in players with the potential to become useful. He hasn’t developed those players enough and he ultimately he has failed to employ that talent in a winning fashion, which is the only thing that people care about anyway. We’re not discussing about charity work here, this is football. You win or you lose in this sport, and Lovie is a loser.

  64. Buccaneers Says:

    Of course if my opinion on Lovie Smith is wrong then Licht is probably in over his head. And we probably just got lucky on those draft picks. And if that’s the case Licht probably didn’t know what to look for when hiring a HC.

    I just happen to believe this team needed to rebuild and they have done so quite nicely the last two years. We basically won only 6 games last year because we couldn’t stop making mstakes. If Koetter can clean that up we will be a force.

  65. Buccaneers Says:

    @Elle….I agree with you there. And yes, W-L is what matters most. Lovie Smith just wasn’t good enough at the most important part of his job. I heard on the radio yesterday that he asked the Glazers if he could hire a defensive consultant during their years ending meeting. That’s pretty weak from a defensive guy.

    I guess I’m just glad that Smith didn’t leave this team to have to be rebuilt once again. Like the last three coaches did…… I’m sorry Gruden took a Super Bowl team and left us with a bottom half 53 man roster.

    And I think when you look around the league its easy to say that there are few front offices in the league that can build perrianal winners. I think the Bucs could easily be on there way to that.

  66. lurker Says:

    where did it say lovie hired licht? where was the connection? lovie had final say on the 53 man roster and hired his coaching staff, that was it.

    darrelle revis, dashon goldson, vincent jackson, jeremy zuttah, gerald mccoy, lavonte david, mark barron, doug martin. this team had talent before lovie.

    want to see how many misfirings lovie made in free agency to replace player he let go?

  67. HIRE JIMBO Says:

    I think licht drafted well in spite of lovie not because of lovie. Licht learned alot more from his previous stops in NE and ARI then he ever could have from loser lovie.

  68. Elle Says:


    I get you anyway. You just don’t think that Lovie Smith has been a total disaster for this franchise. You believe that he has left positive elements in place for the next HC and he shouldn’t be subjected to name calling, because it’s unfair. It’s a respectable opinion to be sure, one that I might not fully share, but respectable nonetheless.

  69. lurker Says:

    you are delusional…

    really, major wright, alteraun vernor, josh mccown, anthony collins, evan dietrich smith, michael johnson, mike jenkins, brandon myers…where was this an improvement from what we had? he went from 4-12 to 2-14! you need to quit making stuff up about lovie and come back to reality.

  70. Buccaneers Says:

    Lurker that’s just what happened. Where I heard it was on the sports radio. Lovie was given the decision making on Licht and Koetter and whoever else had been brought in since he was hired.

    The Glazers have always operated this way. They pick the guy they trust to run the football operations and they give him the power over football decisions. That’s because the Glazers know they are businessmen not football minds.

    It was that way with Dungy……..then they gave McKay the power who was pushed out in favor of Gruden……….I could be wrong but I believe Dominick was in control during the Raheem\Schiano day……..then Lovie.

    And I didn’t understand your list of players. I thought you were complaing about the talented players that Lovie let go……..Most of the players you named(the better ones for that matter) are still on the team.

  71. Elle Says:

    One might argue that 4-12 and 2-14 isn’t a significant difference. But I agree anyway, many mistakes have been made. Revis had still plenty left to give, for example. All that was needed was a serious coach and a serious plan, and he would have been the Island he has been elsewhere. I’m not saying that Lovie isn’t a serious man, I’m simply arguing that as a coach his plan wasn’t that solid and we’ve seen it.

  72. Buccaneers Says:

    Your upset about Josh McCown? Why are good QBs often let loose from their former teams to become free agents? What do you think we should have done at QB that year? Manzeel? Gleenon? Bridgewater?

    Free agency isn’t any way to build a team in my opinion. Just to name 2 the Redskins and Raiders have tried to build that way for years and it never works…….the draft is much much more important.

    Shall I hurl insults back at you now? Will it make my argument stronger?

  73. Buccaneers Says:

    I went back the other day and looked at our draft picks from back in the 90s until now. We haven’t had any draft class that comes anywhere close to what we had the last two years.

    Now we are talking about young players that still have a ton to prove. But if our current core players can get better and all hit their primes together we can do some damage. Of course, we will need to make other good personal decisions to supplement and add to what we currently have.

  74. lurker Says:

    the talent we had before lovie:

    darrelle revis, dashon goldson, vincent jackson, jeremy zuttah, gerald mccoy, lavonte david, mark barron, doug martin. this team had talent before lovie.

    the “talent” lovie brought in that was worse than what we had:

    really, major wright, alteraun vernor, josh mccown, anthony collins, evan dietrich smith, michael johnson, mike jenkins, brandon myers…

    pretty simple

    and you are guessing that lovie hired licht…because you think you heard it on the radio lmao

  75. lurker Says:

    did you also hear on the radio that lovie was in charge of the draft? some media person or talking head is your information.

    you are wrong on so much stuff it is silly to try to correct your false assertions.

  76. lurker Says:

    will lovie’s lovers ever just go away?

  77. Elle Says:

    It’s no secret that the Buccaneers haven’t been able to enjoy the benefits of solid drafting in a long, long, long time. One might even say since the very beginning of this franchise. We’ve found a few gems along the way, but overall, our track record in the draft can be safely labeled as shameful. So many mistakes have been made over the years, not just recently. And even players who seemed to possess the potential to become valid in the NFL have been burned by coaches who simply weren’t able to develop the talent at their disposal. I even place Gruden among those coaches, just to point out that I’m not a Gruden groupie. That’s why I said earlier that the Bucs have a bad history of losing. It is what it is. We’ve enjoyed success at times, but for the most part, we can be counted among the worst franchises in any sport. Saying this isn’t rue is just ignoring reality. Here’s hoping that Koetter and Winston are the prophets who will finally lead us back to the pasture lands of glory and victory.

  78. Buccaneers Says:

    Here lurker……go eat some humble pie and then you may bite me.

    Scroll on over to the article on the main page entitled “Koetter won over Licht” read the last paragraph and it will clearly explain to you that “Lovie hired Licht”.

    Joe your articles are written like a 4th eassy in third person. But I do appreciate that one. Great reporting Joe.

  79. Buccaneers Says:

    Really lurker…….why were those free agent blunders brought in to replace Lavonte David, McCoy, Doug Martin, V J ackson.

    They are all still on the team……I don’t see how writing their names on that list makes your point about Lovie letting talent go.

  80. lurker Says:

    “…we can be counted among the worst franchises in any sport. Saying this isn’t true is just ignoring reality.”

    reality is we went to a superbowl and won it. many teams in any sport cannot say that.

    There are 9 teams that have been to the Super Bowl (in years shown) and lost each time:

    Minnesota Vikings (0-4) 1970, 1974, 1975, 1977
    Buffalo Bills (0-4) consecutively 1991-1994
    Cincinnati Bengals (0-2) 1982, 1989
    Philadelphia Eagles (0-2) 1981, 2005
    San Diego Chargers (0-1) 1995
    Atlanta Falcons (0-1) 1999
    Tennessee Titans (0-1) 2000
    Carolina Panthers (0-1) 2004
    Arizona Cardinals (0-1) 2009

    There are 4 Teams that have never played in a Super Bowl:

    Cleveland Browns
    Detroit Lions
    Houston Texans
    Jacksonville Jaguars

    things are cyclical. we also had hugh culverhouse for half our existence. we are not the worst franchise in any sport…even now. the early years were far more unbearable than now, and even then, there were some bright seasons.

  81. Buccaneers Says:

    Lurker don’t put words in my mouth. I never once said To Lovie was in charge of the draft. Why are you lying?

    What I did say is that Lovie built the warroom that was responsible for our last two drafts. He hired the key minds that were in those warroom. This is an undeniable fact buddy. Get your facts straight.

  82. lurker Says:

    are you really that dense?

    the first list is the talent we had before lovie. you said we had minimal talent before lovie, i showed you were wrong.

    the next list is not related to the first. nowhere do i state they are. that list is the supposed talent that lovie brought in. where in that list was it an improvement over what we had?

    if you still cannot understand, i feel sorry for you and anyone who relies upon you.

  83. lurker Says:

    where is it a fact that lovie built the warroom, buddy? just because you say it is a fact does not make it one. ask joe if he knows the difference between a fact and opinion. he will clarify for you.

  84. Elle Says:

    And I said it, Lurker, we’ve enjoyed success at times, but surely you can’t count the Bucs among the elite franchises in football either. Truly, I only want to root for a team that can be competitive for a long time. Might be easier to just jump off the ship and board another one, like some people like to do but, I don’t have it in me. It’s either the Bucs or nothing. I understand that the sport is cyclical and every team eventually will have a few years of disappointment, but usually those teams manage to get back on track fairly quickly. The difference between the Bucs and those franchises is that after tasting success, we haven’t been able to replicate it. Why? Because a long series of mistakes has been made at every level of the organization, I’m not just pointing fingers at the Glazers. And this can’t be denied, else we would be talking about a franchise that knows how to field a competitive team.

  85. lurker Says:

    i just do not agree that the bucs are among the worst franchise in any sport. having won the only superbowl they played goes a long way in making that so.

  86. Elle Says:

    And one more thing, one can’t always look at the past or take the past as a fair element for an argument. We don’t live in the past. We live in the present and look at the future. All the teams you’ve listed, Lurker, except for the Titans and perhaps the Eagles as well, are waaaay, waaaaay above us right now, and have been more competitive than the Bucs for years already, while we’re stuck in the mud of mediocrity. Mediocrity at best, because at times during these years we’ve been downright putrid.

  87. Elle Says:

    Yeah well, maybe I went too far there, Lurker. Irrationality… it was mentioned earlier. I’m just frustrated that I’ve been watching other teams play in the postseason all day and we’re not in that party. Soon enough, hopefully.

  88. Buccaneers Says:

    And I’ll stand by my comment that we did have minimum talent before Lovie.

    The offense Lovie inherited was absolutely awful. It was leagues worst. Our defense still stinks as it did back then. You might give that a push but if Quon is the leader he shown this year that is a very huge piece for the D.

    Easily we have more talent on the team now overall. And the fact that they are young is huge going forward.

  89. Buccaneers Says:

    Lovie hired most of the people that were in that warroom. That is building it and its a fact.

  90. lurker Says:

    also…joe is the only one that i know of or could find that states “lovie hired jason licht.” no other sports people even hinted at that.

    there were a few candidates and i believe lovie was in on the interviews. perhaps lovie gave a preference. but it was not his decision to make.

    “PFT reports a source saying that Vital will not be the only candidate to return for a second interview, with Giants vice president of player evaluation Marc Ross and Tennessee Titans vice president of player personnel Lake Dawson also mentioned as being in consideration.”

  91. I'm tired and 87 is right Says:

    As fans the first thing we should do is look ahead. At the end of the day the right moves were made. Elle is right in the fact that it’s a new slate, and now us fans need to reset our minds, and give this new staff the credit and support that they can do it! Being negative will get you nowhere and will lead you to misery. Don’t allow cancer to feed on it. I’m proud to say I’m a Bucs fan! Go Bucs!

  92. Buccaneers Says:

    Well Lovie did hire Licht. That’s the reason he wrote that.

  93. lurker Says:

    silly man, that is your opinion that lovie hired most of the people in the warroom. what people? he hired the coaches, that’s it.

    lovie squandered talent and jettisoned good talent for bad. you give him too much credit, that is a fact.

    i am done trying to show you reality when you feel safer in fantasy.

  94. Buccaneers Says:

    And I’m sorry lurker but reported facts shouldn’t have to be argued about. Just because you “believe Lovie was in(on Lights interview)” and that you believe “Lovie gave a preference but it wasn’t his decision to make” doesn’t make it true.

    Actually it’s funny that you will call me dilusional while you believe your opinions are more accurate then reported facts.

  95. Buccaneers Says:

    I did hear it on the radio. But it was also reported here you jag. When I read that article before I posted that line stuck in my brain when you told me I was wrong. I was sure I had just read it so I went back and looked.

    Goodnight dude.this was fun for you to try and teach me “reality”………….which to you reality is your opinions and beliefs being more true then actually reported fact. Hahahahahahaha

  96. LargoBuc Says:

    The past two years, I wondered how much more control over personel Lovie truly had over Licht. Now, considering that Lovie is gone and Licht is in charge, it seems that Lovie really did have say over Licht. All of those free agent blunders were on Lovie. Letting go of Revis. Mccown. Ghost. If Licht were responsible, he would be gone. So really, this is Licht’s first spring really in charge. Too bad the free agents coming up look kinda bleh compared to last year. Lets just hope Licht leads another great draft. Find that franchise corner and/or end.

  97. RealBucFan Says:

    I Like Turtles.

  98. lurker Says:

    jim schwartz interviewed with the jaguars. is he unwanted or just playing the field?

  99. Bob in Valrico Says:

    with licht in charge of personnel decisions we have a chance to return to quality drafts and team building that we had with rich McKay. Dungy and McKay built a respectable team.Much like Lovie,Dungies stubbornness did him in.Not enough attention to offense.when gruden came in and won the superbowl ,he won a power struggle and forced MacKay out.Bruce Allen came in with his dads philosophy of building team with older veterans.By the time
    Chuckie left team was stuck with some real bad free agents much like today
    Successive years of bad drafting have put us in this tough spot.I believe we have the coaches, front office and some of the pieces to be relevant again.

  100. Bob in Valrico Says:

    also I think the philosophy will change. I want our team to play to win the game.
    Touchdowns not field goals usually win games and separate good teams from average the field goals for last minutes of games.