Third String Seferian-Jenkins?
December 28th, 2015
Lovie — and the numbers — speak.
Numbers don’t lie when it comes to how much a player gets on the field compared to his teammates at the same position.
Joe wrote about this last night, but it warrants a fresh look now that the data is clear and Lovie Smith has spoken this evening.
Against the Bears yesterday, this was the playing time for Bucs tight ends:
Luke Stocker — 31 snaps
Cameron Brate — 19 snaps
Austin Seferian-Jenkins 16 snaps
Before yesterday’s kickoff, Lovie Smith talked about how the Bucs were, in his mind, starting their 2016 season. All three tight ends were healthy, and Seferian-Jenkins was at full throttle, already in his fourth game back from an early-season injury.
So Joe can’t help but find it significant that Seferian-Jenkins, the highly-touted, second-round pick last year, was the least preferred tight end.
Lovie Smith was on the Buccaneers Radio Network tonight raving about Brate, the second-year man from Harvard. Lovie, referring to Brate, said, “I love undrafted players” that have earned everything they have. The head coach also praised Brate for catching whatever comes his way. That was evident yesterday, as Seferian-Jenkins didn’t squeeze every ball in his catch radius.
Joe’s stating to wonder what Seferian-Jenkins’ future is in Tampa. The Bucs’ running game is just fine without him, he doesn’t play much special teams (too brittle?) and now coaches are keeping him on the bench after yearning for his return.
December 28th, 2015 at 5:48 pm
Maybe punishment for his penalty in St Louis
December 28th, 2015 at 5:59 pm
Get rid of him. We got Brate he’s much better!
December 28th, 2015 at 5:59 pm
Should be jenkins 0….I want to see more brate
December 28th, 2015 at 6:01 pm
I have honestly had enough of this guy. Starting with the obvious, his health, he has proven not to be a reliable option. How long do you continue to coddle a player, because he has the “potential” to he great? He’s had 2 years, and only a handful of plays to show for it. Beyond that, he exclusively makes plays in garbage time and celebrates as if he just led his team down the field for a game winning drive. People have grown tired of waiting for you to get on the field; his total lack of production when healthy further aggravates, and yet when he finally makes a meaningless grab he wants to show out…. That’s absurd. You should take the meaningless 6 points and get off the field. It just shows how immature this guy is, that he would continue to make the game more about him. The losing clearly doesn’t affect this clown. “ASJ’ doesn’t deserve a nickname, hasn’t earned it. Get rid of this hack. Brate is a team guy, works his ass off and catches everything thrown his way. I’ll take him all day over this diva.
December 28th, 2015 at 6:21 pm
BS…..Think it was a message sent for stupid penalty…..Look at it this way. We got ASJ & Brate for one 2nd round pick…stop the whining…
December 28th, 2015 at 6:23 pm
Meh. Still a talent and still in his rookie contract. We will see
December 28th, 2015 at 6:36 pm
The less he’s on the field, the less likely he is to get hurt. They want him to be on the field when down in the red zone.
December 28th, 2015 at 6:37 pm
Sounds like sending a message to me. ASJ is a bitch and Lovie is telling him that. Bout time.
December 28th, 2015 at 6:41 pm
If it is a message sent by Lovie….it’s the right one and I support it
December 28th, 2015 at 6:58 pm
Me too, TBBF. If they can get this kids head straight, he could be great. He has the talent. It’s all up to him how great he can be.
December 28th, 2015 at 7:03 pm
We don’t know for sure that Lovie is sending a message…..but neither does ASJ….all ASJ knows is that he made a stupid mistake….and he is getting fewer snaps….and and UNFA is getting his snaps and Stocker, who can block better is getting the most.
If it were me…..I would tell ASJ….”Players that play smart play more”
Lovie certainly has used the bench as a tool with Jennings, Jenkins, Banks and others….
December 28th, 2015 at 7:25 pm
I support Lovie for nothing. He got me Famous because he sucks as a HC.
Thanks Lovie.
Now please leave Tampa and soon. When you’re gone we will always remember you as the coach that brought us Jameis.
The rest of you can keep telling us that he’s not going anywhere, but that won’t change our opinion on the matter or the constant posting about it. The want is too big not to keep posting it.
December 28th, 2015 at 7:31 pm
The king of fantasy garbage points! No doubt he won some titles with those meaningless TDs the last two weeks.
December 28th, 2015 at 7:35 pm
It’s a good thing! Three deep at TE!!! Our entire OL looks to be in good shape including depth for next year.
We may need a strong TE corps to augment a thin WR corps..especially if VJAX is entering an age where he’s going to spend a lot of time out of action…Murphy is clearly on the backside of his career and so we have to hope that Adam Humphries and Kenny Bell have a real competition for one of the WR spots. I feel fine with Humphries although I would like to see Bell’s speed on the field..Dye has speed but what good is speed if you can’t catch the ball!
If we have three TE’s capable of catching the ball…Sims who can catch it out of the backfield or the slot…our WR corps suddenly looks decent because Evans will obviously be our go to guy.
December 28th, 2015 at 7:43 pm
Also can’t wait for the article that is no doubt coming about this statement by our head coach that, well, is not going to endear him to anyone
“First off,” he said. “The completion rating can be misleading. You have to look at the context of how it’s happening. I don’t really go by that an awful lot. You can dump the ball off and get a one-yard gain and there’s a completion, so I don’t put a lot into that.
http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/bucs/lovie-giving-up-pass-plays-can-be-misleading/2259261
December 28th, 2015 at 7:48 pm
Lovie didn’t initiate the conversation about Brate. He was asked about who has been a bright spot in the recent loses. He said in his opinion there are no bright spots in a lost. The host pushed Brate onto Lovie and he said since you brought his name up….then he went on to talk about Brate. While the numbers support ASJ’s current position, the article is somewhat misleading
December 28th, 2015 at 8:04 pm
Speaking of Famous Jameis.
I was in Orlando on Saturday taking my brats to Wet N Wild. We had a Applebee’s gift card from Christmas so we stopped in to get some apps and things. On one side of the wall there was a mural. It had various Florida sports teams logos, mascots and what not all hand painted on the wall. To the far right of the wall was a life size painting of our very own Messiah in his FSU uniform dropping back to pass.
Thought I’d share that lil story with you all and Joe.
Joe you’re right he IS bigger than most Buc fans actually realize. America’s QB makes sense to me even more now. Even though the Applebee’s was in Orlando Florida….Orlando is a loooong ways away from Tally.
December 28th, 2015 at 8:37 pm
@ 87
So you are in the Realist camp…..you want the Bucs to win but Lovie to be fired…..how will that happen?
December 28th, 2015 at 8:38 pm
Since coming back 4 games ago (Atlanta game), ASJ has caught exactly 50% of the balls thrown to him (11-for-22). Not only has Cameron Brate done better in those 4 games (8 catches for 11 targeted for 72%), but so has Mike Evans (21 catches for 36 targeted for 58%). I’d say that ASJ deserves to be in the doghouse.
As an aside, seems strange to think that after the Philly game we were 5-5, and had just put up a whopping 45 points. In the 5 games since then, we’ve won 1 game (Atlanta) and put up a total of 95 points (19 pts/game average) while allowing a total of 125 points (25 pts/game). The Bucs defense obviously hasn’t played sterling football, but neither has the offense. Through our first 10 games, offense averaged almost 24 pts/game. Looks to me like it isn’t just the defense that’s taken a step backwards in the last 5 games.
December 28th, 2015 at 8:39 pm
Jimbo, very good take and I agree that the Bucs need smart, team players. S Jenkins is neither from the outside looking in and the selfish act he pulled in St Louis was all I needed to see to remind me of that point. Let’s send this “potential” to another team who is in love with his size. We need smart ball players who can leave their egos At home and keep them off the damn field. Sick of seeing dumb mistakes on this team week in and week out!
December 28th, 2015 at 8:54 pm
Winston sucks! he ‘ s not accurate at all! and for all the studying he supposedly does he sure looks lost most of the time!and it’s against suck ass Defenses he’s a joke! The whole teams a joke. ….
December 28th, 2015 at 9:15 pm
Well asj is a walking personal foul. He gets flagged just for being on the field which hurts the team.
December 28th, 2015 at 9:16 pm
LOL at people saying “get rid of him”. He’s a second round pick who’s been injured most of this first 2 seasons, and doesn’t cost us hardly anything. Why would you get rid of him? Wouldn’t you rather him get coached up and improve his play? You can’t teach size and arm length.
Let’s see what happens when he plays a full season, or maybe even makes it to the age of 24, before we just dump him.
@Defense Rules, I think teams have realized that we run on every single first down, and so when we start the game doing that again, they catch on and learn to stop it by the 2nd quarter. V-Jax being out also really really hurts.
As for the defense allowing more points during that span, well, they were pretty bad to begin with and then we lost Jac Smith, McCoy got even more injured, and now Kwon is gone. So a mediocre-bad defense became a really bad defense.
December 28th, 2015 at 9:17 pm
TBBF…we won’t win enough games next season for him to keep his job anyways. That I guarantee. Some of you have seen progress. Like I said last night. I think you’re seeing what you want to see. The hopeful fan. I understand your support for Lovie and your reasons why. I just can’t bring myself to do it anymore.
I’m not even talking about the horrible FA picks over the last 2 years. I’m talking about in game decisions. He lost me after the Skins game. I think he might have early signs of dementia.
So I’m hopeful that he snaps out of his daze and turns into even an avearge HC, but that’s JUST not going to happen…
Sure we have another year to go. We’re probably stuck with him. It’s only Dec 2015 and I can predict right now even before the draft, TC, and preseason that this team only wins 6 games next season all over again.
The writings on the wall.
December 28th, 2015 at 9:27 pm
unbelievable Says:
December 28th, 2015 at 9:16 pm
“LOL at people saying “get rid of him”. He’s a second round pick who’s been injured most of this first 2 seasons, and doesn’t cost us hardly anything.”
I concur…lay off the kid you impatient Buc fans.
And no TBBF my patience with Lovie ended when he chose to kick a FG instead of going for blood and ending the Skins game. He wanted to put HIS defense up to the test. He wanted HIS defense to win the game for him. Even though they couldn’t stop Cousins all game long. That’s when he lost me. It’s that decision and many more.
December 28th, 2015 at 9:28 pm
6 wins again 87? Gonna be a long off-season man.
I think 8 – 9 is possible, anything less and he’s got be fired. But we’ve got Lovie as our HC next year and all I want as a fan is for this team to win.
December 28th, 2015 at 9:30 pm
I agree 100% on that FG in the skins game! Straight playing scared.
Honestly though, I’ve been pretty puzzled with Koetter’s play calling at times too. Wasn’t it the skins game when we ran that stupid ridiculous run to the left side where there was no one blocking but defenders lined up to stop it? Ended up losing yards, and then we kicked that damn FG.
We literally put the Redskins in post season this year.
December 28th, 2015 at 9:33 pm
@finishers
You’re an idiot.
December 28th, 2015 at 9:33 pm
The Bucs could improve across the board next year and only win 6 games because the schedule appears much more difficult. Yes it’s on paper, but coming into this year the schedule was easy on paper, and it worked out to be even easier than expected. This season will be viewed as improvement by some, but it can still be a big disappointment too. Should have done much more with this year.
December 28th, 2015 at 9:37 pm
Yeah Koetter did call a few boneheaded plays, but I guess you never know until you try them out.
Bottom line is Lovie’s a defensive coach. Period. All these garbage stats about being the 10th ranked defense, when there’s not ONE Buc fan out there that can say this defense looks even average or even improved for that matter. Again, I repeat Lovie’s a defensive coach.
December 28th, 2015 at 9:41 pm
@Dog Poo, agreed we should have done much much better this year, given our opponents. We had ample opportunities to pull out wins against the Skins, Giants, Colts, and Texans, and probably even the Bears.
Bad teams find ways to lose. Hell, drops and penalties alone probably cost us 3 wins.
December 28th, 2015 at 9:41 pm
SCBucsFan…sometimes i don’t even bother with these clowns. I have a pretty good grasp of what I think Jameis will turn out to be. That’s all that really matters to me these days when it comes to Jameis.
Just ignore the trolls….
Could be some 12 yr old kid for all you know.
December 28th, 2015 at 9:44 pm
@Joe….will the confidence poll be up tomorrow?
I have a feeling he’s going to take a big hit on the next poll.
December 28th, 2015 at 9:44 pm
@ scbucsfan you must be watching someone else! because he’s not accurate and has terrible ball placement!
December 28th, 2015 at 9:45 pm
87 I agree 100% on that.
I posted this yesterday– that we as fans knew when Lovie was hired we were getting some terrible clock management, bad personnel evaluations, and a soft pu$$y attitude on offense. But we believed we would have a good defense. Or at the very least, competent and disciplined.
It is an outrage, and I find it inexcusable. But the bar is set so low that this season represent progress, and he’ll have year 3 to convince ownership he should stay.
December 28th, 2015 at 9:51 pm
unbelievable….Great point. Every single Buc fan thought Lovie would bring the D back to Tampa when he was hired. Yet here we are. No one can defend what he’s done on the defensive side of the ball. No one. They can come up with excuse after excuse, but they forget, we watched the games too.
I’m not expecting “Glory Days” defense even though I’m sure many Buc fans had that vision in their head when he was hired. We have the tenth ranked defense off of a garbage schedule. Yippee!
December 28th, 2015 at 9:51 pm
@Unbelievable … The Bucs defense started out the season really bad (gave up almost 30 pts/game in first 5 games) and yet the Bucs still went 2-3 largely because of the offense. Defense improved considerably in next 5 games (gave up only 21 pts/game average) and Bucs went 3-2 over that stretch, largely because of the defensive improvement. Unfortunately the defense has fallen apart again, but the offense has also regressed. Looks to me like the play-calling has changed quite a bit in these last 5 games, and that the OLine has regressed somewhat also, especially in pass protection.
December 28th, 2015 at 10:02 pm
Do you think he could play Vince Jackson’s position? Seriously, if Brate is that good.
December 28th, 2015 at 10:07 pm
Mike…I dunno Brate is 6 ft 5 so possibly.
I still want them to pick up a stud WR in the draft or via FA though.
December 28th, 2015 at 10:11 pm
@Buc87: you have kids or brats? Good thing they’re not reading your posts. As far as Lovie goes, I learned a long time ago to be patient as a Bucs fan. The offense gives me hope. I just hope it gets back on track Sunday. BTW, FSU has as many rabid fans here in O-ville as the Gators. Go Bucs!!
December 28th, 2015 at 10:19 pm
finishers …I’ll do this for you because I’m bored.
Peyton Manning future HOFer completed 56% of his passes in his rookie year.
Drew Brees completed 60% of his passes in his rookie year.
Andrew Luck completed 54% of his passes in his rookie year.
Dan Marino completed 58% of his passes during his rookie year.
Damn it I’m NOT a stats guy. It’s your problem that you can’t see what this kid is going to be.
Jameis Winston so far has completed 58% of his passes in his rookie year.
December 28th, 2015 at 10:22 pm
I love Koetter but it frustrates me that we can’t find ways to get our best playmakers on the field together…the receivers behind Evans are bad, with Jackson out…Humphries is a nice role player…but we should have Evans, Martin, Sims, Seferian-Jenkins, and Cameron Brate on the field at the same time as much as possible. Figure out a way to make it work. Sims and ASJ should be more than capable of splitting out wide or working out of the slot.
December 28th, 2015 at 10:25 pm
orlbucfan…been a fan since 1987 so I’m pretty sure I’m patient when it comes to this team. My kids are 2 young girls who don’t even watch football or care about it.
Patience huh? What part of this defense do you like? LB’s? Okay you got me there our LB’s LVD and Kwon are pretty damn good.
I guess this is what you expected from Lovie’s D when they hired him. Patience.
January 2017 Lovie’s gone. Patience with the next guy.
December 28th, 2015 at 10:27 pm
Jason Licht 2014 : “We don’t expect our fans to be patient.”
December 28th, 2015 at 10:31 pm
If Lovie regresses….to lets say 4-12 or even 5-11…..then I’m all for his firing.
But…if the record improves to 8-8 or 9-7…..I think I would support another year.
It is complete speculation to say what our record will be next year….so, the only logical choice is to support him until its clear.
Here is the question for Buc fans……which would you rather happen in 2016
Bucs go 9-7 and Lovie stays.
Bucs go 5-11 and Lovie is fired.
I think my moniker should tell you which scenario I would choose.
December 28th, 2015 at 10:33 pm
9-7 all depends. 4-4 start? Not too bad. 6-2 start? That has to be fired.
December 28th, 2015 at 10:43 pm
I just don’t see the 9 wins TBBF. I know it’s waaay early to be making any projections, but as of right now I see 6 wins all over again.
I predicted before this season started that this team would win 4-6 games tops. Said so repeatedly for most of the summer. After preseason I settled on 5-11.
So close. Don’t think I’m happy about being almost right though.
Will I root for the Bucs to win next season. Of course I will. I’m the guy that sat in the stands watching Richard Williamson coach our team. You know the coach that won 3 games during his first season which is one more than Lovie.
He got fired for that.
December 28th, 2015 at 10:49 pm
Ray Perkins won more games than Lovie did in his first season with 4 wins. Followed up by 5-11, 5-11 to 5-8 before he was fired midseason.
The immortal Greg Schiano won 7 games in his first season.
December 28th, 2015 at 10:49 pm
It didnt look like ASJ was all that healthy tbh. It appears, to me anyways, that he is always favoring his shoulder after he gets hit. Perhaps, just like mccoy, he is playing through some pain. The only difference is mccoy is twice the player his back up is.
December 28th, 2015 at 10:55 pm
Here’s something awful I saw: Lovie is one of two coaches in Bucs history that has never been over .500, and that even includes being 1-0 which obviously is shooting very low. The other coach? Leeman Bennett, and he only got two years.
December 28th, 2015 at 11:14 pm
Hes still young, lets not give up yet like we did with other players that are doing great else where.
December 29th, 2015 at 7:53 am
our run was stopped early in game because bears were playing run on first and second down. The whole league knows we have tell. we bring in kevin pampille and its going to be a run.We should pass some off this formation and give winston more time for deeper routes,since 8 or 9 defensive players are on the line.
Arizona does it. Carolina used to beat us all the time with Steve Smith and their max protect package.
December 29th, 2015 at 8:26 am
I am not happy with Lovie but just for continuity for Jameis I am willing to give him one more year. Hopefully Licht can hit some home runs in the draft and improve this pathetic defense.
December 29th, 2015 at 10:03 am
reaching!! ASJ shoulder is still hurting… you can see it in his face after every catch & he gets up pretty slow after taking hits that aren’t really that big
December 29th, 2015 at 10:55 am
I agree with previous posters and have said similar things in the past. I think that his diminished role is, and should be, a result of him acting like a child on the field. His self-congratulatory behavior and his tantrums are a liability and his inability to stay on the field makes it not worth having him around.
December 29th, 2015 at 12:38 pm
now if we had the same depth at cb,de and safety as we do with the te position lovie would’ve done the same thing…players role would decrease if they make stupid penalties, drop balls or whatever else goes on…since asj came back the run game hasn’t been the same…im not saying cut ties with him because he does have talent and talent is what we need but he has to grow up and get his head out his a$$….GO BUCS!!!
December 29th, 2015 at 9:23 pm
Lovie Smith is getting a pass since he took the Bears to a SuperBowl loss many years ago.
The Bears did have a handful of winning seasons when he was their HC, winning 11 in ’05 and 13 in ’06 with the SB loss to the Colts.
Those were his second and third seasons as Bears HC. His first season he was 5-11. A very fast turnaround.
After his first 2 seasons w Bears he had a 16-16 record compared to a Bucs record of 8-23 with one game left in year 2.
From ’08 to ’12 Lovies Bears won 54 games and lost 35, averaging nearly 9 wins per year. As HC in Tampa Bay he’s only averaging 4 wins a year w one game to go.
So what has happened to the guy? He used to know how to win but now he has become a losing coach.
There are many opinions we all express here. For me the bottom line is that if he really could get this team playing above .500 ball he’d be a guy most of us would consider the right person to run the team.
Las Vegas put the “over-under” line for Bucs wins this season at 7 before preseason. That’s close to where they will end up.
Next season with a much more difficult schedule and 2 away games on the West Coast that “over-under” win number will be 5 games.
Is it worth it to keep him around to win 5-6 games a year?
Can’t give him a pass. This isn’t the right place for him to succeed. Applicants please send Jason Licht your resumes.
December 29th, 2015 at 11:31 pm
I don’t understand it. With two rookies on the offensive line and a rookie QB how could we not be in the super bowl??!? This Lovie Smith guy has got to go.
Any other coach would have squeezed out a deep playoff run. I mean everyone posting on here predicted 10 to 12 wins before the season started. It’s so disappointing to just get 6 with this seasoned offense. I don’t know what’s happened to Lovie. Usually when you’re starting 3 rookies, a second year wide receiver and a second year TE it’s a recipe for success. Most coaches are going to win with that formula. FIRE LOVIE!!!!!
December 30th, 2015 at 1:00 am
Lovie didn’t have enough personnel savvy to see that one of his best Safeties has been right under his nose on the bench most of this year–hint: he played CB at West Virginia. Of course Keith Tandy, who finally got to show what he can do as a starter, this last game. He also would be a perfect choice if moved back to CB too. Let Licht pick up the backup talent this draft for CB or Safety or sign proven free agents.