Is There A Hidden Truth On Johnthan Banks?
December 19th, 2015
Derrick Brooks weighs in.
One of the great mysteries of 2015 is Lovie Smith planting cornerback Johnthan Banks’ third-year butt on the bench.
Lovie might be the only NFL coach that thinks Banks is not as good as undrafted rookie corner Jude Adjei-Barimah.
Derrick Brooks was asked specifically about Banks during his Tampa-2 show on WDAE-AM 620 on Wednesday.
“Let’s be honest. The public, me included, some things we’re just not going to know,” Brooks said. “Maybe we can even say, ‘don’t deserve to know.’ And you’re probably not going to find out. So accept that.”
Brooks characterized fans puzzled by Banks on the bench as having “a very valid question.”
Of course, Brooks talked about how players must earn the right to remain starters — in practice and on game day. Also, Brooks noted when a player is demoted, coaches often will seek a rhythm with the new personnel group and hope the benched guy slowly will work his way back in.
A player’s opinion of whether he’s had enough chances to prove himself and a coach’s opinion on that subject, Brooks said, are two very different animals.
As for Banks, Brooks speculated the hard truth won’t come soon. “Right now, I don’t think we’re going to get the answer to that question, whether it’s from Johnthan or the coach.”
December 19th, 2015 at 10:23 am
Brooks is spot on with this one. We will most likely never know why Banks is not playing. He’s a 2nd round pick, you have to play him in order to see if you want to move on from him or not. Clearly Jude is not going to be here after this season and shouldnt be. This is kind of like the whole Glennon saga. If you dont play him you cant be sure of what you have. Lovie just doesnt seem to have a clue.
December 19th, 2015 at 10:31 am
I think Banks will start seeing a significant amount of playing time over the next 2 games so we’ll see whether he outperforms the other corners or not.
December 19th, 2015 at 10:40 am
Lovie doesn’t know how to use a cover corner in his defense. See Revis. Inflexible scheme severely limits the ability to bring in players from outside the scheme and have them be effective. See every free agent brought in the last two years.
December 19th, 2015 at 11:14 am
Time for Lovie to go or at least have a DC come in and Light tells Lovie hands off!
December 19th, 2015 at 11:15 am
“Licht” darned ac
December 19th, 2015 at 11:20 am
Something is rotten………….
The defense is looking confused and like WTF on so many plays.
Who the hell is the secondarys coach????
I can understand getting beat because we don’t have good players
BUT…..BUT………
It’s the way we are getting beat that really bothers me…….we’re getting our asses handed to us by teams that are worse than we are……
This team looks like last year’s UNMOTIVATED
………we got a OC this year…….what’s Lovie’s excuse now??????
December 19th, 2015 at 11:27 am
I will say this while I am not in favor of firing coaches, Banks not playing does and always had puzzled me. I am on record saying the scheme we play is fine but I do have my doubts about Lovie ability to evaluate talent.
December 19th, 2015 at 11:30 am
Secondary coach is Lovie’s son, so now you understand why there confused as much as the whole other defense is. I’ve watched the Rams game twice now. I’m almost to the point where I’m ready to say Lovie needs to go, his defense is way to soft. Major Wright is garbage as well as the entire secondary excluding Sterling Moore, but I’d be hesitant to sign him long term simply because players always play harder during “contract years” which also has me worried about Doug Martin. This team is undisciplined and lacks talent. Bad combination, I’m all for promoting Dirk Keotter at the end of the year and letting him run this team. Let’s be honest where would this team be without him? 2 wins maybe? Promoting Keotter won’t hurt the offense or Winston, but maybe he can actually bring in a defensive guy who knows how to coach.
December 19th, 2015 at 11:49 am
Or maybe it’s that Lovie is a terrible at evaluating talent, and he really believed that Judy Garbage-BlahBlah was a starter. But it’s OK. Banks will be traded in the off season since he “doesn’t fit the system”, and he’ll go to a Pro Bowl with another team just like Revis, Talib, etc.
December 19th, 2015 at 12:28 pm
Fans could take sitting Banks IF Hey Jude was setting the world on fire. But quite the opposite has occurred: Hey Jude is the one getting torched.
Jonathan Banks is a good CB, but he (like LVD initially) may not be a good fit for what Lovie is trying to get his defense to do. Or maybe it’ll just take him time to adapt, just like it did LVD. Or maybe the knee that he hurt in game 3 is impacting him more than any of us is aware. Or maybe the Bucs secondary coaches really aren’t that good at teaching Lovie’s system. Or maybe none of us really know what’s going on there.
Ya, let’s go with that … Just like Brooks did.
December 19th, 2015 at 12:31 pm
I typically try not to give a head coach too much blame/credit because there is alot in regards to strategy and preperation that we dont know or see and I typically keep my critique to what I see on the field. However, I got to question Lovie benching Banks for guys like Jenkins, Jennings, Jude. I find it hard to beleive Lovie or any of our coaches thought any one of those three gave our defense more than Banks. At worst, Banks should be at nickel. Does he not practice as hard as he plays? And for everyone pileing on Lovie for not playing enough man coverage, well he put Jude on Kenny Britt one one one in what appared to be man with no one over top, essentially leaving the rookie on an island despite getting torched by Brees four days prior. Well we all know the one on one vs britt ended in a 60 yard td. So to say that we dont use man or we use to much Tampa 2 (which we rarely use) is misguided. Just like saying Lovie didnt have the team ready to play. These are grown men. They shouldnt need someone to fire them up, especially a coach. They go over the game plan, its not scheme as many state. Thursday, we saw many players on defense that couldnt do spit. If you feel so obligated to pile on the hc, there are better reasons as I stated above to criticize but many resort to a bunch of bs like he didnt have them ready, or its his tampa 2 scheme etc which is lazy and inaccurate. Lovie leaving our rookie on an island, that is something to question and criticize. Did you really see guys not in position to make a play? I saw guys like Orie and Major and Lansanah just mis tackles or just stand there frozen while Tavon and Gurley run past them. And it dosent help when everyone on our dline is getting manhandled out of their gap.
December 19th, 2015 at 12:34 pm
Here’s the hidden truth: Lovie is not running Tampa 2….or any scheme for that matter. His scheme is let the other team get the ball, and then hope for turnovers. And if that fails, hope you can hold them to FGs. It’s not a sustainable model of winning at all.
December 19th, 2015 at 12:41 pm
Lovie’s son Mikal coaches safeties. The CB coach is Gil Byrd, an EXTREMELY well-respected coach in NFL circles. If you don’t agree, please Google or YouTube Aeneus Williams’ HOF acceptance speech where he gives a ton of credit to coach Byrd.
That being said, that makes the Banks situation even more confusing. I’m sure it will come out eventually. I’m not for giving NFL teams a total blanket of “Well, they know more than we do” (Who here is smarter than Ray Perkins?), but there has got to something significant given how bad the other CB’s outside of Sterling Moore are playing. Buddy Ryan was no saint, but when he got rid of Cris Carter, he caught holy hell but he never said why and never threw Carter under the bus. People found out about Cris Carter’s issues much later.
December 19th, 2015 at 1:09 pm
Dog poo, come on I really hope your better than that.
December 19th, 2015 at 1:26 pm
This defense is designed to be soft and allow the offense to get the ball in front of the defenders, then the hope is to tackle quickly (which they suck at), or force turnovers (which they blow at). Call it whatever scheme you’d like, it’s ineffective. The blitzing never works. When they go man it never works. The only time it ever works is when they other teams offense is off.
Remember, we went 2 full games without forcing a punt. It was either turnover or the other team scores. Butter thinks this defense is soft.
December 19th, 2015 at 1:58 pm
You lose arguably your best player from the middle of the defensd!!! Kwon may not only be the talent they needed but also the fire that seems to be lacking in LVD and GMC.
Your starting DL is down the DE counted on to provide pressure….Jack Smith and indeed Smith was a league leader in sacks for awhile but he cant’ seem to stay healthy…then Clinton McDonald going out early was awful..he provided some heart and professionalsm to this DE. GMC playing but very iimited with the bad hand…one NFL caliber DB…and yet we keep dissecting this loss like it was some kind of surprise. DUH!!!!
If the talent is so unimportant why do we bother trying to accunnalate good players? Because when they don’t play we suck!!! This isn’t rocket science.
December 19th, 2015 at 2:43 pm
Banks should have never been benched in the first place. Been saying it for I don’t know how many weeks now. On the play #38 got burned, both WR’s ran the same route (Banks was on the other WR). 38 bit on the double move, while Banks didn’t, and the result was a TD. On the field, Banks may not have set the world on fire, but neither has any other CB on our roster. He has been the least bad (as stupid as that sounds) of anyone in our secondary. I could give 2 sh!%s about what goes on behind closed doors. Either play your better players or get rid of them. Don’t let him sit on the bench going to waste while we have an undrafted rookie getting torched game after game after game. We all know Banks is probably a goner at the end of the year. Is there seriously one of us that don’t believe he’s not going to tear it up for another team? We all know it’s going to happen, because we’ve all seen Banks be effective. 90% chance he ends up in New England next year and playing in a Super Bowl. #itsabucslife
December 19th, 2015 at 2:50 pm
Well dog poo, is there a scheme we could use to put them in better posistion? You just said we suck at man, so that kind of indicates that whatever scheme you put them in, its going to look the same. Especially when our lb’s and safeties cant tackle. No matter how use a 4-3, if your dline gets manhandled and cant hold a gap, it will not be good. Sure we could have focused more on defense the past couple of drafts, but then the narrative would be how our offense sucks! You know, the same narrative thats always followed this team. When your building a roster, you only have so deep a pool of available free agents to choose from. Like I said I can find things to crticize regarding Lovie but the cookie cutter scheme, lack of preparation points are just misguided, inaccurate and lazy.
December 19th, 2015 at 2:53 pm
I’m sure someone is going to say “Banks isn’t any good”. They also said Michael Benett wasn’t any good. They said Revis wasn’t any good too. They said we should get rid of Blount. They said Talib was terrible. We said Barron wasn’t any good (I’m the most guilty of this). Could I interest you in having those guys back on the team? Watch us end up getting rid of Vincent Jackson and Doug Martin as well. There is something fundamentally wrong with the organization for continuing to get rid of good players, then replacing them with crap. I realize every situation is different and some of those guys probably had to go, but you have to be able to replace them with capable players. How can you expect to build a team that way?
December 19th, 2015 at 2:54 pm
Trust me, if we part ways with Banks, your damn right im going to tear Lovie a new one on these boards.
December 19th, 2015 at 3:15 pm
@LargoBuc,
Unfortunately, it’s going to happen. I’m sure he wants out by now. Who could blame him?
Here’s the problem – there is no reasonable solution. We can’t fire Lovie. All the idiot, over-emotional fans don’t want to hear it, but there is no way in hell Lovie will get fired. He tripled his win total from last year, and it looks like he drafted our first ever franchise QB. He hired a great OC, and re-built our OL to respectability. For nothing more than the image of our team throughout the league, Lovie has to stay. However, that also leads us down a path of continually overhauling our roster looking for guys that fit his scheme. He is loyal to a fault with some players (his guys), yet completely unforgiving to others (Banks being exhibit A). He is not going to adjust his scheme, and I highly highly doubt he would consider giving up play calling duties. It would be a million times easier to bring in a DC that will fit his scheme around our players, but Lovie is way too stubborn to do that. Even his biggest fan knows how stubborn he is. Point is, nothing we do is going to be a good move. Firing him is a bad move, but so is keeping him. We aren’t going to fire him, so we just have to hope that by some miracle he will stop running off good players and adjust to them. I’m not counting on it though. Let’s just all hope #3 becomes a great QB, because he is our only chance to win games.
December 19th, 2015 at 3:26 pm
Hawaiian Buc … “There is something fundamentally wrong with the organization for continuing to get rid of good players, then replacing them with crap.” B I N G O !!!
Your use of the word ‘continuing’ is right on target. Started when we gave up 2 x 1st rounders and 2 x 2nd rounders to hire Jon Gruden away from Oakland, and has gotten progressively worse. We continually give up valuable draft picks and players then get nothing in return. (Lots of others like Zuttah who you could add to your list). We’ve not only made some horrible draft selections over the years, but we continue to try to fill holes by throwing money at FAs who under-perform. No way to build a team, and it’s not something that can be turned around in a year or two.
December 19th, 2015 at 3:43 pm
Hawaian, I wouldnt blame him, and its sickening.
I do beleive, however, that a little too much is made out of scheme, not just us but every team. For instance, thurday I didnt see anything wrong with a scheme. I saw guys like Orie, Major, Lansanah, unable to tackle. Unable to make a play in space. I saw guys struggle to cover. If you cant tackle cover or lack speed and instinct, a new scheme wont automaticaly make you better. Now the play Jude got burned, thats on Lovie.
December 19th, 2015 at 3:58 pm
@LargoBuc,
I agree with you on scheme for the most part. There comes a point where you just have to beat the man in front of you, no matter the scheme. We are destroyed with injuries, but there are a lot of teams destroyed with injuries. ‘Tis the season.
All that being said, we just can’t continue to get rid of good players year in and year out. I can’t even remember the last year we didn’t get rid of some guy for nothing where he didn’t turn around and be a very good player for another team. That’s sickening, because we are always short of talent! You can’t get rid of talent when you don’t have enough to begin with!!! It just doesn’t work, and frankly I’m shocked that guys making millions of dollars aren’t smart enough to figure that out (meaning our upper management, ownership, and coach). Go down the list and look at the guys we have gotten rid of (Talib, Blount, Bennett, Revis, Barron, etc.) and let me know where we replaced them with even the SAME amount of talent? I’m not even asking for better, just equal. That’s unacceptable, and needs to stop or we are going to continue to have this same conversation every single year.
The solution needs to be ownership sitting down Lovie and Licht and telling them the following: I don’t want to hear a damn thing from you that doesn’t include us bringing back Martin, Jackson, and Banks. If that’s a problem, then you can quit right now. Hire a legit DC that can play to our strengths. If I have to hear one more “we need to get our guys”, I’m going to puke in your pool Mr. Licht. Seize that! Obviously none of that will happen, which is exactly why ownership is so important in the NFL.
December 19th, 2015 at 5:41 pm
Hmm, how about, he refused to jam a WR at the line when the defense required it? See Falcons Thursday night game and Ravens game from last year for reference.
December 19th, 2015 at 5:51 pm
Why should Banks start? The people asking why Banks is not starting should begin their search with the prior question prior to this statement.
December 19th, 2015 at 7:50 pm
@Brandon,
Just how in the hell do you know he refused to jam a WR back last year? Were you in practice? Were you in the huddle?
@loggendontosay,
How about he should start because he led the team in INT’s last year? Anybody else have that kind of playmaking ability? How about because he gets thrown at far less than any other CB on our roster? Go ahead and give me a game he was torched repeatedly? How about because the other guys are hot garbage? Is that good enough for you?
December 19th, 2015 at 9:11 pm
It must be conduct related because it sure aint talent related.
December 20th, 2015 at 12:28 am
Does anyone not remember Banks sucked at the beginning of the year ??
And stop calling for the head coach job
It is ridiculous. Players play for him, he is a proven coach, always develops a top defense, he isn’t going anywhere.
It is very simple. They do not have enough talent at DB and DE.
Simple as that.
As soon as that is addressed in free agency and the draft (along with another WR) they are a 10 +
win team
December 20th, 2015 at 1:15 am
No Dave, we don’t remember that, because he didn’t suck. If by suck you mean he got hurt, the man yes. I’m not calling for his job either. Apparently you really didn’t read the comments closely.
December 20th, 2015 at 4:08 am
Lovie blew it leaving Banks on the bench after the Colts torched his rookie QB. That personnel stupidity compounded by his keeping Dontae Dye after he cost us a touchdown in the Colt’s game, cost us the Ram’s game, and foolishly let the Browns pluck the superior Rannel Hall off our Practise Squad. The only way to keep Lovie is to bar him from personnel decisions and put Frazier in charge of defense calls.
December 20th, 2015 at 11:00 am
Banks will be traded for a 5th and a 6th round pick and go on to be a stellar corner like revis and talib. He will be gone next year and mike jenkins will be our best corner, lovie will still be the head coach and we will all be on here bitchin about how this team cant get it together again!
December 20th, 2015 at 3:32 pm
Hard being a bucs fan on this site lately haha. We all know if you have been a fan more then 10 years you can expect this. Just live your life and if the Bucs win great and if they dont well you still are going to wake up tomorrow.