Nervous Times For Trade Down Crowd
April 29th, 2015
Joe doesn’t get it. Just cannot comprehend it. The Bucs, a team in dire need of a stellar quarterback, have the rare, rare, rare opportunity to choose their pick-of-the-litter quarterback.
But a segment of misguided Bucs fans wants to throw this hard-earned chance away for reasons that simply don’t add up.
Of course Tampa Bay has a lot of holes. What 2-14 team doesn’t? The biggest is quarterback, yet the trade down crowd still hollers for the Bucs not to pass on the most important position on a football team.
With just a little more than one day before the NFL Draft, the Bucs, smartly, are hellbent on picking Florida State quarterback Jameis Winston. Right now, it seems, the trade down crowd is hoping a miracle happens and some team goes mental and offers general manager Jason Licht the sun and the moon to give up this precious pick.
Per pickpocket-thwarting, Bucs-uniform-frowning, Allie-LaForce-smitten, Big-Ten-Network-hating, pedestrian-bumping, olive oil-lapping, popcorn-munching, coffee-slurping, fried-chicken-eating, oatmeal-loving, circle-jerking, beer-chugging, cricket-watching, scone-loathing, college football-naïve, baseball-box-score-reading, NPR-listening, filthy-hotel-staying, fight-instigating, barista-training Peter King, of Sports Illustrated, NBC Sports and TheMMQB.com fame, no potential trade is brewing.
Tampa hasn’t gotten anything that would make the Bucs consider trading number one. Don’t think they will get anything, either.
— Peter King (@SI_PeterKing) April 29, 2015
This is what Joe has to say to the trade down crowd: Next year, Joe will swill beers with you and be your biggest cheerleader. Not this year. Why? Joe will put it this way:
The St. Louis Rams are arguably as talented as the Indianapolis Colts. However, the Colts played in the AFC title game; the Rams watched the playoffs at home. Why? The Colts have a quarterback; the Rams do not. (And stop with the “trade down for Jay Cutler” lunacy, will ya?)
You can always get offensive linemen, you can always get defensive ends, you cannot always get a quarterback, as the Bucs have proven time and again.
With the rare chance to select their favorite quarterback in the draft, would be flat out irresponsible to trade down. This year.
April 29th, 2015 at 6:01 am
if they get a ridiculously good offer trade down & pick the Brent Hundley kid out of UCLA. Great personality and a good QB with great tangibles and upside. I think he will be a decent talent in this league.Winston is going to be a wasted pick & a bust in a few years. The writing is already on the wall with this guy. I see nothing but bad things and Tampa’s notorious nightlife & escorts etc in this guys future. Nothing but trouble…. Take Marcus or trade down. The damn FSU fans have swayed ” fan base ” for this guy. Two words… Future bust!!!!!
April 29th, 2015 at 6:08 am
If we trade the 1st pick, then Licht should be fired before the 2nd round. A good college qb are rare. Round 2-7 should be available.
April 29th, 2015 at 6:34 am
Don’t like the logic that we draft a QB just because we need one. Winston and mariota are overrated. Take the sure thing in the first. L.williiams or fowler. Grayson or petty in 2nd or 3rd is a better idea. This team has enough holes that best player available is still the way to go. You’re only hoping and gambling with the QB at #1
April 29th, 2015 at 6:44 am
Man, if we get an offer we can not refuse, then I’m interested.
April 29th, 2015 at 6:47 am
Trade down for Rivers is a no brainer. It is the only reason for us to trade down. But then again, I’m sure Joe would love a trade down with Cleveland if we get Johnny Football.
Get Winston and expect those 17 pounds he lost for the combine to be back before Christmas!
He could be the next Shawn King and Brad Johnson will not be available this time.
In Lovie and Licht I trust!
April 29th, 2015 at 6:59 am
With the right coaching stuff (sheme) – Mariota is (way) more dangerous than Winston on field – while Winston is way more dangerous off the field, regardless of sheme
1) As we all should know by now: a QB being able to throw or run is way harder to defend ( is simple logic.. the more a defense has to account for, to defend, the harder it gets for them).. Putting a sheme in place, which takes advantage of that + puts its playmakers in good positon: like speed in space and creating match up problems = best concepts
2) Best example in NFL would be Eagles.. 3rd best scoring offense with Foles and Mark Buttfumlbe Sanchez tells everything..
3) This kind of superior/modern sheme is based on QB´s with the skill set of Mariota: athletic + able to pass; making good decisons
While Winston makes bad decisions on and off the fiel (history; dont know about future)
While Media will hype (as usualy) the FSU QB for: Gunslinger, great anticipation, game knowlegde..
Simply, if you want to get a glimpse of the (potentialy) next franchise QB, how about visiting draftbreakdown and watch the Florida, Loisville, Auburn Games yourself??
Every Amateur-“Scout” can see the averageness. Nothing special besides an laser-bazooka-cannon power arm..
But in terms of pre-snap IQ or working the pocket??!
DECISION making?! ————- well, this pocket QB is indeed someone you put into your pocket as a coach and hope you never have to pull it out!
April 29th, 2015 at 7:06 am
@Bucco Bruce
The days of getting to the Super Bowl without a quality QB are fast coming to an end. There are absolutely no guarantees at any pick with any player. Both Mariota and Winston are above average QBs. It is rare to have this chance at the number one pick. Build the team smart, not a haphazard chance to build all at once. I believe the Bucs will be sorry if they pass this chance…for in years to come we may not have such an opportunity.
April 29th, 2015 at 7:08 am
I shocked that the Bucs finally have this great opportunity to draft a top tier QB like Jameis and all these buc fans are wringing their hands about it. I’m much more concerned about one of the quality OT dropping to them @ 34 and who they can get in the 3rd Rd. The 1st pick is a no-brainer IMO.
April 29th, 2015 at 7:28 am
hopefully they dont waste the 3rd rounder on the FSU RG.. what was his name? He is not realy bad, but not realy looking good (especially pulling)
April 29th, 2015 at 7:33 am
You don’t get anywhere in this league without taking that quarterback risk. If Winston busts, who cares? We lose nothing. We were 6-26 the last two years.
Metaphorically speaking, our team has a terminal illness and the only option is to take an experimental drug. Without it we are sure to die. But with it we might just make it out of this mess alive!
April 29th, 2015 at 8:00 am
Simple…trade down crowd are not sold on Winston being mature enough to avoid NFL suspensions or Mariota being able to transition into an NFL franchise QB. Trading down gives the team an opportunity to address two other glaring team needs…(projected) elite pass rushers and very good offensive linemen able to keep teams out of the backfield for more than 2 seconds. No QB will do well with defenders in their face after “2 Mississippi”. We are fortunate this year to have an OC with some proven NFL success with a QB that reminds him of the guy the Bucs already have on the roster. I’m not a Lovie homer by any stretch, but when the team hired him they signed on for a “defense can win 10 games” minded football coach.
April 29th, 2015 at 8:04 am
I’m 98 percent for drafting a quarterback.
I set aside the other 2 percent for that insane and irresistible offer…like 3 first rounders, 2 2nd rounders and a good enough QB to start this year.
April 29th, 2015 at 8:09 am
ToesOnTheLine! Says
“Simple…trade down crowd are not sold on Winston being mature enough to avoid NFL suspensions or Mariota being able to transition into an NFL franchise QB.”
You presume much, but are not completely accurate.
As I said above, I, myself, want to draft a quarterback. However, if the right trade offer came in, it would be selfish to turn it down.
3 1st rounders and 2 2nd rounders would make this team a major contender. With this picks we could bring in a quarterback next year, and have the team holes filled at the same time.
As it stands now, we’re looking at 2-3 years before we contend, even if we strike gold with a quarterback in this draft. There just isn’t enough ability to fill all the holes we have, and all but we signed 14 players with injury issues in free agency.
April 29th, 2015 at 8:12 am
Yes ,Bucs need a QB but sadly this draft is similar to the Vince Young / Matt Leinart draft …neither is worthy of the first pick .
April 29th, 2015 at 8:18 am
ToesOnTheLine you do realize that the Bucs plan to have Winston playing behind center for the next dozen years right? Nobody expects the Bucs to be in the Super Bowl next year. It will probably take them another year or two to be a playoff team. With that being said, you have picks 2-7 this year and picks 1-7 next year and the year after to fill the other holes on the team.
Many are saying that Winston is the best prospect over the last ten years outside of Luck. Guys like Elway, Manning and Luck are once in a generation players. When those guys come out they are taken number one overall. The Bucs went 30 years without having the number one overall pick. The plan to wait for the next Elway before taking a QB is not a good one. You have to take Winston as he could possibly be the guy that makes the Bucs contenders year in and year out.
April 29th, 2015 at 8:23 am
I think JOE is being EXTREMELY kind with the term “misguided” when describing the “trade-down” crowd.
EXTREMELY KIND.
April 29th, 2015 at 8:27 am
How about we listen to the ONLY coach that won a Super Bowl for the Bucs?
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/04/29/jon-gruden-i-dont-get-why-marcus-mariota-isnt-no-1/
Jon Gruden: I don’t get why Marcus Mariota isn’t No. 1
Posted by Michael David Smith on April 29, 2015, 6:32 AM EDT
The coach who won a Super Bowl with the Buccaneers thinks the quarterback who has the best chance to lead Tampa Bay back to the top is Marcus Mariota, not Jameis Winston.
Jon Gruden says that Mariota does everything a quarterback needs to do, and should be viewed as the top player in the draft.
“I don’t understand why [Mariota] isn’t the No. 1 player in this draft on Mel Kiper’s Big Board,” Gruden said, via Rotoworld.
Gruden disagrees with those who think Mariota is a product of Oregon’s offense and not a fit for the NFL.
“I don’t know anybody in this draft that can do for a football team what Mariota can do,” Gruden said. “He can read the field. That whole thing about Oregon being a no-huddle, dive-option team, that is just a narrative resulting from a lack of information. The Ducks run a lot of pro-style concepts. Mariota does a lot with the protections. I’ve seen him throw the ball with touch and timing in tight windows.” The former Bucs coach points out that Mariota is the same size as Jameis Winston but runs 4.52 forty. He is incredibly elusive, and man, is he a playmaker and a great competitor. I see him functioning in the pocket, out of the pocket, and if you want to run a zone-read, he’ll rip the defense apart. He is like Russell Wilson, only he is 6-4.”
In other words, Gruden thinks the Buccaneers are going to make a mistake tomorrow night when they pass on Mariota and pick Winston.
April 29th, 2015 at 8:31 am
it is truly laughable to read some of the opinions posted on this page. “Every amateur scout can see the averageness. Nothing special besides a laser bazooka power arm”.
Really??? #1 recruit in the nation out of high school. But those scouts must be idiots. Then he steps in as a red shirt freshman wins every game and the Heisman and NC. Then goes undefeated his sophomore year. Chooses to come out and most people, including NFL scouts consider him to be the #1 QB prospect in the draft.
But you know more because I am sure you are blessed with talent evaluation skills that none of the rest of us can comprehend. It truly is comical m
April 29th, 2015 at 8:40 am
One more day till were Famous. And all u basterds who talkin trade down or anything else might as well turn to panther ,saints ,or falcon fans because u aint a real BUCCANEER fan . And if thats u We dont give a Fuck what you sayin.
April 29th, 2015 at 8:46 am
Well JBuc it really isn’t worth arguing with them anymore. EVERY mock draft out there says the Bucs are taking Winston. The mariota gang is clinging to the few experts like Gruden who choose Mariota. The majority of experts say it’s Winston. Regardless, at this point in the process the number 1 choice is always known. They can kick and scream all they want but in 36 hours he will be a Buc.
April 29th, 2015 at 8:52 am
One more day till we get Famous. And anybody sayin trade down or anything else might as well switch teams now because you’re not a real Bucs fan. And if thats u We don’t care what u sayin.
April 29th, 2015 at 9:03 am
@ Mayne One
I preferred your first response better, it really captured your way with words 🙂
April 29th, 2015 at 9:12 am
Unfortunately we can’t even win at losing in the right year. Feel like this years QBs are sort of underwhelming. Maybe the whole draft is though? Question is whether or not either QB is really worth that high of a pick. Unfortunately you can have dream scenarios of getting a king’s ransom, but easier said than done.
April 29th, 2015 at 9:14 am
Cry y’all selves a river haters here. Tomorrow the legacy begins. Welcome to the Jamies. Tomorrow I’ll be saying it again.
April 29th, 2015 at 9:20 am
Two things Joe…using your analogy of the pick of the litter. Having the pick of the litter doesn’t do much good if your looking for a champion in a litter of mutts, and the fact that the Bucs haven’t gotten (or according to King won’t get) any substantial offers for said pick of the litter tells me that the personnel in the NFL may just think that’s the case. I’m in the camp of hoping my Bucs make the pick (or deal) that puts us in the best position moving forward. I know football, but I have no more access to knowing what the sure thing is than you do. I do however know what gives me reason for pause…and Winston does. I hope I’m wrong, because I’m pretty certain that’s where my beloved Bucs are heading.
April 29th, 2015 at 9:26 am
espn’s shills have been pronouncedly pro-mariota in the last couple weeks. wonder if it might have something to do with building up interest in a certain event this week? does anybody else find the timing of these pronouncements (shortly after every mock draft on the planet recognized JW as the top pick and better QB prospects) interesting? if the tables were turned and MM were the lock at #1 overall, this is also the time you’d see people all over the internet clicking on off-the-wall predictions by ESPN and NFL analysts challenging that assumption.
April 29th, 2015 at 9:32 am
i like how people are putting the absence of a trade up on JW’s undesirability. it’s more a reflection of MM’s appeal, combined with the unrealistic price tag for backing the bucs out of their prize in the race for Jameis. if MM were who some people think he is, we would be flooded with calls to get ahead of tennessee at #2
April 29th, 2015 at 9:33 am
This is implying that Koetter doesn’t already have his scheme in place…and i ask you this: what type of scheme was run in Atlanta, Koetter’s most recent coaching gig? I don’t remember Matt Ryan being a running QB.
You know what is easy to defend, though? A QB who’s accuracy rate plummets after his first read. That’s what Mariota is. He’s great when his first read is open, but when he’s not, it’s almost as if his brain gets confused.
Kaepernick, Griffin, Vick. Those QBs were hard to defend in their first year, too. And then what happened?
And yet those same Eagles got beat in the wildcard round in 2013 (by a team with a more conventional QB play) and didn’t even make the playoffs last year when they were “3rd best scoring offense”.
“Superior”??? Really?
The scouting reports I’ve read all say he’s the next best thing to come out since Luck. If Luck qualifies as average, then bring on average.
And are you really going to bring up pre-snap as a basis for your argument? And compare it to the guy that looks to the sideline flash cards during the snap to determine what play to run? You’ve got to be kidding me.
Lastly, let’s not forget that Mariota isn’t going to be able to out run every defender like he did in college. Let’s also not forget that defenders in the NFL hit a lot harder than college kids, so all those sacks he took in the NCAA will hurt a lot more in the NFL. One more thing to keep in mind, he won’t be as lucky to recover all his own fumbles the way he did in the NCAA when he gets to the NFL as well, also.
I’m sure Rams fans thought the same thing.
How many QBs did he draft that went on to do great things? Who was the last rookie QB he selected that this great QB guru mentored into a great starter?
I’ll wait.
April 29th, 2015 at 9:34 am
It seems odd that no other team is mentioned to be interested in Winston, at least that is what I’m reading, though I admit I don’t read around other sites. As far as all who suggest disgruntled fans change allegiance to another team, almost nobody will.
April 29th, 2015 at 9:39 am
@pick6 – ding ding ding! ESPN is trying to stir up intrigue where there is none! They are trying their best to keep people tuned in and interested.
April 29th, 2015 at 9:42 am
even better……make the pick licht
April 29th, 2015 at 9:44 am
I can tell you with certainty that some ESPN broadcasters are being pressured to make the QB race between the two seem closer than it actually is.
April 29th, 2015 at 9:48 am
This pick of the litter is not from a litter of mutts. These are champion AKC registered bloodlines, don’t cha know? The cream of the crop, can’t miss bonafide superstars. That’s what most are banking on.
April 29th, 2015 at 9:51 am
I remember one draft when Heath Schuler and Trent Dilfer were the two highest rated QB’s on the board. Colts GM took a lot of flack for drafting that nobody Marshall Faulk inspiring the comment from him when criticized, “who the hell is Mel Kiper.”
Turns out he was right. Neither QB was first round worthy. in fact, our QB at the time, Craig Erickson, was a better QB than either of those two ever were.
Just because both these guys are considered the best in this year’s crop of QB’s doesn’t mean they are first round worthy.
History is working against either one of these two guys succeeding and becoming franchise QB’s. The biggest onus is both of them are Heisman winning QB’s. That trophy is like carrying a millstone around your neck in the NFL.
April 29th, 2015 at 9:56 am
In hindsight would anyone really give up three No. 1’s and a No. 2. for RG III.
Does that tell you anything about the judgement of NFL evaluators.
Then again we are talking about an organization run by Dan Snyder.
April 29th, 2015 at 11:23 am
qbase score
April 29th, 2015 at 11:45 am
The biggest reason the Bucs went 2-14…we had no quarterback! Any rookie in any draft is a gamble. You gotta go for Jameis. He is the best quarterback prospect. And we need a quarterback!
April 29th, 2015 at 1:43 pm
@mayne one
its great to see that trailer trash end-zone still exists! I can still hear the chants from Trailer Trash End-zone ” PUT IN CASEY WELDON ” LOL….. ANOTHER P.O.S. FSU QB. HOW DID THAT TURN OUT PEOPLE????
April 29th, 2015 at 6:28 pm
@Celly:
(i will play a little bit to your rules…)
1st) You´re implying Koetter will bring his Atlanta playbook over here..
1.2 : Even if: Koetter run a lot of screen plays (Oregon/Mariota???) and short stuff, to set up the big plays.. but he is always talking about explosive plays. Well, it doesn´t get much more explosive than a 5.2 40yard dash QB who can throw..
and why should Koetter run Option-Pass-Plays with M.Ryan?!
Good coaches play to players strength….
2nd) you say: “You know what is easy to defend, though? A QB who’s accuracy rate plummets after his first read. That’s what Mariota is.”
Which is simply a lie or a comment made without any research; in fact, that is exactly what (even the “extperts”) say about Winston – and Mariota goes faster “smoother” through his reads.
Again, i just recommend you to watch some games on draftbreakdown.com for both prospects.. but playing against some good teams.
Joe just won´t allow any links that might hurt the FSU QB´s stock.
This (simply bad when first read is covert) is also exactly the resason (hand in hand with decison making) which made Winston such an average QB.
3rd) Yeah, i should have said: “clearly better/superior schmeme for motherlovin damn sure”
quick explenation: harder to defend, since defense won´t know what to cover: if you spread them, they need to cover the WR which opens up runs, if they choose to load the box, you have easier time throwing the ball (with all the rule changes, throwing is more efficient than ever) and if they do both lacky-lacky you throw some Option on them.. bascially you can always throw some Option on them..
“Old school” running formations like the I-Formation or I-Power(-weak/Strong) are only realy good, if you have a clear advantage with your O-line over the D-line.. simply overpowering.. But same can be done from Pistol or Spread also.. so again..
CLEARLY SUPERIOR SCHEME FOR DAMN SURE
(just look at the Eagles)
4th)
Yeah the pre-snap thing, truly rediculous right?! Laughable! I do think so too!
But the Wistonaties who are running the commercials in the media tried sooo hard to search and hype anything they could about him, like for example his pre-snap abilitys – hahahahahahaha
Thats right!
So yeah, sometimes he changed the pass-block for the better, sometimes he checked into the right play.. sometimes they run plays that weren´t good.. sometimes some that gained yards or even resulted in Touchdowns!!!
Bottom line_____________________
The pre-snap and Football IQ hype surruonding this FSU QB isn´t a valid one…
In all the game tapes you can easily see, that Winston (very very very) often misses the easy throw, due to not so high football IQ/decison making/knowing where his targets are… not a Manning like mind… just overhype..
5th) Mariota runs smart and is fast enough to make some plays with his feet, while Winston realy will have some troubles doing that, but with a huge hole, anyone (including my old father) could make something happen…
and lastly:
GoBucs! get the Duck!
April 29th, 2015 at 6:40 pm
to (over-)correct the 2nd) point:
Of course the numbers won´t be as good, when compared to the first-read throws..
but to imply that Mariota struggles more than Winston on the 2nd read isn´t exactly showing expertise..
Just look at the tape.. Winston clearly goes into panic mode (thats also when he throws all the BS shake my head throws and INT´s) while Mariota goes through progressions, trys to buy time by scrambling (while keeping eyes downfield)..
but yeah, of course Mariota isn´t perfect also, and takes many sacks, which doesn´t have to be and is easier correctable compared to Winston inability to correctly diagnose what to do…
because Mariota often has room to run, but simply doesn´t take off… so from a coaching standpoint, you simply say “run more often” (as crazy as it mind sound to you), while you can´t expect Winston to suddenly be better at decison making by saying “find your open target quicker and if not there, scramble out and throw it away”..
in short: Matriotas shortcomings are easier to correct than those of the next average FSU QB..
While i am not expecting Winston to be very bad.. but somewhere Freeman-like in overall play.. Sometimes good, sometimes bad, sometimes ugly, sometimes complete average.. but never elite and/or consistent good in the long haul…
(depending on overall team around him and teams he faces week to week)