The Doubt In The Greg Hardy Case

March 17th, 2015

lovie 0322Joe understands why about 15 percent of Bucs fans think Tampa Bay shouldn’t touch an alleged shady character guy like manbeast, free-agent defensive end Greg Hardy.

Bad dude, so move on, these fans say.

They don’t want another Michael Pittman, Aqib Talib or Jerramy Stevens in town.

Joe’s not knocking these fans, but is it so clear Hardy is a criminal? Before Hardy’s 2014 misdemeanor assault and threatening charges against his former girlfriend, Hardy had no record. His conviction was tossed on appeal this year, after the alleged victim didn’t show up.

Joe directs readers to this interesting Charlotte Observer story. Here’s an excerpt:

But other details also raised unanswered questions about prosecutors’ handling of the case. Hardy’s defense team announced an appeal of his conviction before leaving court in July. But Murray said prosecutors only “recently” had compared what Holder told police the night of the alleged assault with her testimony at Hardy’s first trial.

That’s because prosecutors didn’t have a trial transcript. Hardy’s defense team did – attorney Chris Fialko hired a court reporter at Hardy’s trial in District Court where transcripts are not normally prepared. According to court records, Fialko also fought the prosecution’s request for a copy of the transcript in the weeks leading up to Hardy’s trial this week.

Murray’s office would not elaborate on what prosecutors found when they compared Holder’s statements, but the district attorney said in court that with Holder unavailable, they “did not have sufficient legal basis” to enter her statements to police as evidence.

Several legal experts around town speculated that prosecutors spotted inconsistencies that prevented them from building their case around Holder’s former accounts. To enter an unavailable witness’s prior testimony and statements as evidence, prosecutors have “to vouch” for its truthfulness, said Charlotte defense attorney George Laughrun.

“If they’re seeing something in the evidence that gives them pause, they may have been placed in a ethical dilemma where they don’t want to vouch for their witness.”

That’s interesting stuff.

Joe’s not lobbying for Hardy, but there is no reason for the Bucs to pass on investigating him thoroughly. There is no clear cut evidence Joe is aware of that slaps a guilty-dirtbag label on Hardy.

115 Responses to “The Doubt In The Greg Hardy Case”

  1. Curtis Gatorboy Says:

    Bring him in dammit!!!!!!!! JUST SAY NO TO JAMEIS!

  2. BuccaneerBonzai Says:

    Interesting. So…inconsistencies. Same as with Winston’s accuser.

  3. StPeteBucsFan Says:

    Agree with you Joe. It’s the pattern that disturbs me. Incognito has a long history but as you’ve just pointed out Hardy does not.

  4. The Buc Realist Says:

    Sign him As long as the Glazers have a the Hardy’s wifebeater section in Ray J Stadium. Where a uniform will be required of 1 white tank top that was purchased under $4. It must have 1 hole and at least 1 ketchup or mustard stain!

  5. Buctebow Says:

    Rationalize it any way you want, but the guy made a huge mistake and didn’t have to pay for it. Will he be a repeat offender? Who knows, but since his talent is immense and fills a gaping need that the entire defense hinges upon, we will overlook his mistake and take the chance on him. Don’t sugarcoat it, that is what it is.

  6. tmaxcon Says:

    Sign Hardy and draft Winston they instantly become the two most important buc Players hands down. Without a pass Lovie’s d is worthless without a QB the offense is dead last once again

  7. BrianDorry55 Says:

    Sign Hardy, Draft Jameis…and all the sudden this team has an attitude we haven’t seen since the good old years.

  8. JFat Says:

    Wound up reading a bit more about this case and it isn’t as clear cut as they made it sound on the radio. He said/She Said. Hardy called the police a number of times, neighbors called the police saying they heard him beating her @ss. Might have just been his manager trying to restrain her while she flipped out.

    It reads like a bad breakup to me; she was attacking him with shoes. I’ve found that shoes are the weapon of choice for a woman that doesn’t take bad news well. Hard to say whether he actually choked her, doesn’t sound like there was any physical evidence to support that.

  9. Tampabaybucfan Says:

    It is difficult for him to be contrite and remorseful over an act he claims he didn’t commit. We would be better off if he did. Keep in mind, a Judge found him guilty. One would think the incident would have to be discussed in an interview.
    Hardy could say….”I didn’t do it but if I did, I’m sorry & won’t do it again”

  10. David Says:

    Gatorboy….ur terrible. Please block th his clown.

  11. Coburn Says:

    To me there is definitely some doubt in the case. She may just be batsh*t crazy, but what does that say about Hardy? The thing with Hardy for me is that even if he is completely innocent of this particular crime he still sounds like trouble. I question a guy who would date a coke snorting, drunken floozy like that, especially since it seems even after breaking up he couldn’t seem to stay away. It’s quite likely he partakes in some of that himself if it didn’t bother him. It certainly would seem to reflect the type he hangs around with and his values. Maybe he only cared that she was pretty, had big boobs, and was easy. These athlete ‘victims’ always seem to have the same things in common, always hang around with other thugs, bad girlfriends, seem to be ok with drugs (likely partake themselves). On the other hand there’s always the types of athletes who never have ‘false accusations’ or put themselves into these types of situations.

  12. brandonbucfan Says:

    We have heard a lot of stories about “Choir Boys” that can be disruptive forces in the locker room. I would check into what kind of teammate he is and use that as much as a guide as long as we think this is a one time thing which we won’t know anyway.

  13. StPeteBucsFan Says:


    Sign Hardy and draft Winston they instantly become the two most important buc Players hands down.

    Just a couple of nits to pick. First of all…instantly? You’re not even going to give Fameis a year to prove his worth at the NFL level?

    Secondly. Hardy more valuable than GMC? Levonte?

    Kind of begs a debate over who was most valuable on the great Bucs team.
    It surely wasn’t the QB. Love Brad Johnson but he was a good player not a great player. And do we believe that Sapp or Simeon Rice were more valuable than DB55?

    But I get your fevered desire. No doubt that if the Bucs could land Hardy and they draft Fameis we are well on the road to the playoffs. OL can be fixed with 2nd and 3rd round draft picks or off the waiver wire.

    Again remember as Licht pointed out the Stroud we won more than rights to Fameis with that 2-14 record. We ge!t FIRST pick of EVERY player who hits the waiver wire until September when hopefully we’ll surrender that privilege since it will then revert to the team with the worst record.

    Having the first pick from the waiver wire is not insignificant. In fact an argument could be made that’s where the real “value” players are found. Licht is already licking his chops since he luvs him some “value”

  14. a-bomb Says:

    I practice criminal law in NC. Our judges are elected by popular vote. There is no right to a jury in our misdemeanor trial level, so your initial trial is in front of a popularly elected district court judge. District court judges worry about getting re-elected and bad press. Despite all of the amazing inconsistencies in the state’s case in district court, if the judge had found Hardy not guilty she would have been run out of town. The “real” trial of these cases is in front of a jury in Superior Court. Faced with bad evidence and an uncooperative witness, the state elected to punt. They would not have done that if they could have convicted Hardy.

  15. Florida Hillbilly Says:

    I would like to think that he understands what all of this has cost him, not talking about the money. He needs someone that can guide him into the right direction, and that would GMC!! Let’s give him a chance.

  16. Buc Neckid Says:

    If Hardy OR Winston are EVAR signed
    It will ONLY be after the BUCS are thoroughly convinced of their background

  17. bucs4lyfe Says:

    Joe’s not knocking these fans, but is it so clear Hardy is a criminal?

    lol all it takes is one charge to be labeled, there would be no doubt in some people’s mind he was a criminal if he a guy with an ordinary job. Companies like Verizon will fire you for getting a DUI if they choose. having said that if we get him we’ll be good if we don’t we’ll be good, I think our team is on the upswing for a change. you get hardy and the word THINK wont apply, it will be absolute.

    im sure Greg Schiano poster doesn’t want the bucs to get Greg Hardy, Mr. im gonna build the defense from the back to front lol. if we can pay revis we can surely give hardy a contract and we wont give up a high draft pick and 16 million to do it

  18. sturgis1115 Says:

    Michael Bennett wants out !!!!! Hardy McCoy Bennett McDonald Smith Melton!!!! That sounds good!!!!

  19. tmaxcon Says:


    Please don’t mistake most important player for the best player. Hopefully that answers question two which is fair of course. neither hardy nor Winston will be better than mccoy or lvd until proven on the field other wise.

    However, being the most important player on the team is a complete different story. Winston will most likely struggle first year, they all do. Yet all eyes and everything will depend on how he develops thus most important player on offense. For hardy, he becomes the most important person simply because of position. according to everyone lovei’s d does not work without a 3 or rush end. Well the 3 is in place and it has not worked. so adding the end instantly gives them a PROVEN player and not another pay and pray end. it also removes any excuses for the lovie fans.

    Now I am about to Hit 6th street in Austin for SXSW and St. Pat’s day. The goal is to blow a .20 flat by 8pm. I will be drunk responsibly Austin has a drunk bus 2 bucks no DUI and loads of entertainment on the ride home.

    Happy St. Pats day to all and stay out of Jail!

  20. bucrightoff Says:

    sturgis1115 Says:
    March 17th, 2015 at 3:39 pm
    Michael Bennett wants out !!!!! Hardy McCoy Bennett McDonald Smith Melton!!!! That sounds good!!!!

    Pass the pipe will you?

  21. LargoBuc Says:

    Interesting stuff. But the biggest question is what will his punishment be from the league, if any. It’s not right to wait til a team signs him and then right before training camp BOOM! Six games suspended! Its not fair to Hardy or the teams and im kinda surprised the PA hasnt been more vocal in pressuring the league to reach a FAIR decision. It only leads me to beleive that Goodell and his boys will determine a punishment based upon which team he goes to.
    I think thst while Hardu was “exempt” and not technically suspended the fact that he missed 15 games last season will hurt his value as opposed to if he had played and had another monster year. That and the fact his episode happened BEFORE the Rice scandal leads me to feel Greg Hardy should NOT face any further punishment.
    As of tight now, I think the Bucs should in fact sign Hardy for a generous one year contract with a second year option (just like the pats signed Revis too) that way its fair. If Hardy lost a step or for some reason isnt on board with the regime here it’s only a one year deal and we can move on. If Hardy plays like the next Simeon then we can pick up the option. Peactical way to handle a less than practical situation involving a cant miss player that can take us from 6-10 to 10-6.

  22. Tampabaybucfan Says:

    Hardy should be rested……didn’t play but 1 game last year….Carolina didn’t want him back…..maybe they can whine about us like we whine when we let good players go.
    It’s all about the deal….if we can offer him enough non-guaranteed money to attract him….let’s pull the trigger…

  23. ForgotAbootDre Says:

    Let’s just assemble a team of villains. Sign Hardy, draft Jeameis, trade for AP, break Hernandez out of jail and give him a dusguise mustache.

    You think OJ would be up for coaching?

  24. Tom Edrington Says:

    Wait until Duemig gets a hold of the Joe(s) this week….

  25. DallasBuc Says:

    The local sports radio afternoon drive host who I am not allowed to name has decreed that Hardy should not be a Buccaneer so you all can forget about it now. According to this lousy tool bag if Hardy is signed in Tampa he will abuse and possibly kill a woman and it will be the fault of us fans that wanted him here. This man is not operating on a level remotely near functional intelligence.

  26. DallasBuc Says:

    “…as far as that’s concerned”

  27. Buc1987 Says:

    Curtis Gaytorgirl….take your meds.

  28. Buc Neckid Says:

    Bennett is seeking a trade to ATLANTA
    to be with Dan Quinn his old Defensive Coach from Seattle

  29. Destinjohnny Says:

    Ike turner fan club

  30. bucs4lyfe Says:

    It is kind of odd though that people would boycott a team or the nfl for signing a player like hardy but no one ever boycotts the government or complain about the justice system. it’s just easier to go after the internet, if people really want to do something about violence against women how about you look at the real source which is the justice system instead of saying your a criminal you can’t get a job because your rich and famous. hate johnny lawyers who get these guys those great deals after being charged guilty…nah nevermind that’s wasted talk because it’s too much work for people who pretend they really care. go to the source neo if you really care about punishing domestic violence because the nfl is a workplace

  31. WS99 Says:

    Two TOTALLY different situations. Greg Hardy his victim was black so…

    Lol couldn’t help myself.

    As a matter of fact when he gets to FL he can kill her and say he was standing his ground and it will be perfectly acceptable. #trayvon

  32. Bucs55 Says:

    If he dosent want to sign a much needed part of a cover 2 defense a true rush defensive end someone thats needed in this defense because we dont blitz as often because of of his off field issues then what makes people think that winston is the pick … if you really see the person lovie is he just dosent want to deal with it honestly think this pic is gonna suprise alot of people he might go ether defensive end or offensive line

  33. Buc1987 Says:

    WS99…but stand your ground was never used as a defense in the trial.


  34. ForgotAbootDre Says:

    Turns out Hardy isn’t visiting Seattle. So it’s us or Dallas sounds like!

  35. ddneast Says:

    Just listening to a woman on Steve Duemig show, a so called expert on domestic abuse.
    She stated if a man abuses a woman, he should get, “no second chance,” to play in the NFL.
    I wonder if she holds that staunch dogmatic view towards, doctors, lawyers, auto mechanics, etc, who are charged with domestic abuse.
    I was under the illusion I lived in America where you paid your penalty and were then allowed to move on with your life. It is one of the great tenets of this nation that I love.
    And believe me, judging from her pictures of her enjoying her ski vacation and New York City shopping trip, Hardy must have certainly paid a penalty.
    Still, if we are not going to allow people to ply their trade in life because we don’t give them a second chance, this country is going to be carrying a lot of dead weight around.
    One thing I soundly disagree with Duemig about, and he is very anti Hardy and domestic abusers, is that a “leopard doesn’t change it’s spots.”
    I have heard that axion before and found it to be the most pessimistic view towards human behavior ever uttered.
    If you adhere to this belief system, then if a person is an alcoholic, you will always be an alcoholic (true) but will always drink. If you are addicted to any drug or any type of self destructive behavior the same goes for the drug or the self destructive behavior.
    I have overcome two addictions and find this notion not only nauseating, but extremely ignorant as well.
    People can change, but as the old therapist joke about the lightbulb says, they have to want to change.
    Thanks god many people have changed and had the strength to talk about what errors they made in life to help others.

  36. WS99 Says:


    I’m just happy we still have fans passionate or crazy enough to talk bucs all day everyday. Im getting kinda meh with the whole thing so I have to make rude and inappropriate comments just to stay engaged.

    So how about De La Puente. He’s a center, 26y old and played for YAwnnnnnnnn……..

  37. bucrightoff Says:

    Hardy isn’t visiting here either, and that’s been confirmed by the way. Bucs are just “looking into him” (as is most of the league). Rosenhaus is doing his thing, making his client more money than he should. But Dallas is the only team he’s meeting with, and from the sounds of it he’s likely to sign there.

  38. canadianbucsfan Says:

    Deangelo Williams said Greg Hardy was the only panthers teammate that recently went to his moms funeral. I consider that as being a bit of a decent teammate.

  39. Zam Says:

    As individuals or organizations we don’t have to be 100% certain to make our best judgment. Indeed even the courts need to prove beyond only a reasonable doubt.

    It amazes me how many people think the criminal justice system is the final arbiter of truth. It is not, it’s the arbiter of punishment.

    Do I want the guy in jail? No, there’s not enough evidence. Is he a shady guy in my opinion? Quite likely. Do I want quite likely shady guys on the team I root for? Heck no.

  40. ddneast Says:

    So true Canadianbucsfan but I still don’t think the ‘Boys have the cap space to sign him.
    True friends stick with you even if you have done something wrong. That doesn’t mean they condone the behavior, it just means they aren’t going to desert them when they need them the most.
    You tell the person, “you know I’m your friend, but of you do this again, don” t look for my friendship again. I don”t approve or condone what you did and won’t tolerate it if it happens again.”

  41. Buc1987 Says:

    Zam…yah let’s let him go get 12 plus sacks for Dallas.

    We don’t need him here.

  42. Underdog Says:

    @ Joe

    15% of Bucs fans and 15% of JBF readers are two different things

    Hardy is definetly worth a look-see

  43. StPeteBucsFan Says:


    Thanks for the detailed legal explanation of how the N.C. legal system handled the case. More context and perspective is always appreciated in these debates.


    Interesting stuff. But the biggest question is what will his punishment be from the league,

    May be nothing Largo given Abomb’s post. If the NFL has NO conviction to hang their hat on and it’s a he said she said and the she stopped saying the League has no legal standing to suspend somebody over bad publicity without at least some video proof or something.

    As somebody who has employees let me assure you even in the South you can’t simply fire or suspend somebody without cause. In Florida you have 90 days to do that after 90days people have rights.

    Given that AP and Rice have fought back and forced Goodell to become legal it’s very probably that he’ll have to eat it. But it is Goodell and who knows.

    I’m just not as certain as others that it’s such a slam dunk. But I’m no attorney maybe they have bad publicity clauses in their contracts.

  44. StPeteBucsFan Says:

    BTW I’m almost more concerned about Hardy’s agent than his transgression.

    Rosenhaus is a real tool, a true egomaniac.

  45. SW500cal Says:

    Sign The Kraken!

    Seattle doesn’t have the cash (Bennett under contract) and Dallas doesn’t either. Glazers need to get some wood and make this happen. Doesn’t Hardy deserve a second chance? There are other players in the NFL that have made bigger mistakes and are still playing ball.

    GMC will help with public relations and Licht needs to make this team better and in a hurry! Easy schedule this year.

    GO BUCS!

  46. LUVMYBUCS Says:

    @Joe (Steve)

    Major shoutouts 2 you 2day Sir. Bout F*King time you stood Up to the Bigdog. Proud of you bruh. You hit in the mouth with nothing but points. He couldn’t come back in say sh*t…lol …LUV”DIT

  47. LUVMYBUCS Says:

    Release the helms! And Summon The Kraken !!!

  48. SteveK Says:

    2-14 in 2014, and 30-70 in our last 100 has me on the sign Hardy, draft Jameis bandwagons.

    We need to win, and let the justice system do it’s thing.

  49. SteveK Says:


    please paraphrase! 🙂 I love this radio hour.

  50. LUVMYBUCS Says:

    Steve is killing’em…LMFAO…Bigdog is sileeeeeeennnnt!!!…lol

  51. LUVMYBUCS Says:

    See what Push Ups do for

  52. Buc1987 Says:

    Joe’s breaking bad?

  53. Patrickbucs Says:

    bucrightoff Says:
    March 17th, 2015 at 4:34 pm
    Hardy isn’t visiting here either, and that’s been confirmed by the way. Bucs are just “looking into him” (as is most of the league). Rosenhaus is doing his thing, making his client more money than he should. But Dallas is the only team he’s meeting with, and from the sounds of it he’s likely to sign there.

    Well his big time agent was just at TPA (personal confirmation). Who else is he in town negotiating for? I can’t think of anyone but I’m sure there are other agents he represents but don’t continue with you know the facts. Agents aren’t known for flying around the country for 1 year mid-level deals (no where he lives) and Hardy’s been in town a few times. Not saying it’s happening but let’s not pretend all the stiffs were reporting on the Graham and Ngati deals.

  54. mac Says:

    Greg Hardy is the only signing that can save this totally crappy free agency market for Buc fans… Then we can focus on drafting our next franchise QB and our next starting right guard and tackle…

  55. JJV Says:

    Let’s keep it simple, Lovie style. Bucs defense will not work without a proven, consistent pass rushing DE. Hardy is hands down the best free agent or rookie from the draft to make an immediate impact on the D. He would most likely have double-digit sacks playing with Gerald McCoy. When was the last time the Bucs had a DE have double digit sacks? Can you imagine how much better the defense will become with that much pressure. Bonus is that Hardy also has a nasty attitude sorely missing on the defense as well as team. Every good team needs that balance between passive and aggressive attitude. Either we want to win or not.Sometimes to do that you have to make bold moves. The NFL is competitive, harsh, and brutal. If you don’t take chances like this opportunity with Hardy, some other winning team will.

  56. LUVMYBUCS Says:

    Summon The Kraken !!!

  57. Newbucsfan!!! Says:

    People don’t scream for change with the government like they do NFL players because the government can hurt you the NFL can’t. Or at least I think they can’t hurt you their tied together anyway so who knows. Heads of state chillin with owners, getting tax free status, having the FBI on standby, and who does the NFL bank with again? ESPN trashed all over Winston for that garbage allegation but one meeting with the commissioner and all is well? The government tapping into your phone conversation if key words are spoken, don’t think so. Next time you’re having a conversation say CIA or FBI or certain senators, etc. You will notice more 800 numbers calling you all day (not a coincidence) I could go on but this is not conspiracy theory.

  58. Buc1987 Says:

    JJV…none of that matters. All that matters to some of these fans is whether or not he’s a nice guy off the field.

    BTW…Warren Sapp was an a-hole of the field and cheered for him.

  59. danati74 Says:

    We don’t need him. Imagine if the Bucs get Winston and Hardy. We will be a hated team. We are still trying to win back the fan base. Its a long road. Lets draft 2 DE’s and the winner will play opposite last years prized waver wire pick up.

  60. Buc1987 Says:

    Yes, yes, I keep saying it let’s let him go to Dallas or another team and dominate.

    We don’t need him here…

    Give me a break…please.

  61. Howard Cosell Says:

    Sign Greg Hardy.
    Battle cry at 1-Buc is loaf and you WILL be released.
    Geraldini is pissed. I’m sure David is really pissed.
    Koetters not here to kiss babies.
    That’s the environment that Hardy will come into.

  62. buddha Says:

    Rumor that Buccaneers are looking into Ray Rice and Peterson. Yes we can change the team’s image and the new uniforms will be striped. Orange is the new black.

  63. Rrsrq Says:

    This is a must that they get Hardy to OBP, if he signs elsewhere then so be it, but we better do more than kick the tires.

  64. LUVMYBUCS Says:

    Michael D. Johnson (Sensitive- Super Polite ChoirBoy)
    (5 yrs w/Cincinnati) Prior to signing w/ Da’ Bucs
    • Active: 79 Started 45
    • Tackles: 134
    • Sacks: 26.5
    • Forced Fumbles: 3


    Greg Hardy (The Kraken) *2013 Pro Bowler
    (4 yrs w/Carolina) *Only played in 1 game in 2014
    • Active: 63 Started: 40
    • Tackles: 142
    • Sacks: 34.00
    • Forced Fumbles: 7

  65. JJV Says:

    Yes we can draft a DE and hope that he develops into a pass rushing beast. You know, just like the defensive lineman we recently drafted like Bowers and Clayborn. Hardy is a consistent, proven , experienced pass rusher that is a “difference” play maker sorely needed for our defense immediately. We will be a hated team only because the other teams will hate to play us and lose. No more coming to Tampa for an easy win anymore. That is all Hardy and Winston will add. Why would we want to let the winners in the NFL continue to sign that type of player? Winining will win back the fan base more than anything.

  66. Buc Drunk Says:

    Why then did he pay her off? He was convicted in a bench trial. He paid her off cos he knew there would be revelations he wouldn’t survive. Inconsistencies my foot.

  67. Buc1987 Says:

    JJV…that’s my point. He’s just going to go to another team and dominate, that’s all.

    Those other teams need him, but we don’t need his ilk in Tampa.

    Let’s just keep sucking.

  68. WS99 Says:

    Sign Tim Tebow. We need Jesus.

  69. Buc1987 Says:

    Can someone answer this for me?

    Why does all this off the field crap bother some fans so much?

    Can’t they just watch the game and not worry about what the player does with his private life?

    Must be the TMZ generation….

  70. Buc1987 Says:

    ….And my God how many times have the Pats signed a troublemaker to their squad?

    Are we to goody 2 shoes here in Tampa or do you people want to win effing football games like the Pats?

  71. WS99 Says:

    Not that it matters bc he retiring but it goes to a bigger point. Bleacher report post something this morning that said the bucs were going to draft Chris Borland but drafted Simms instead.

  72. LUVMYBUCS Says:

    So you mean to tell me that …..

    • Art Rooney
    • Edward J. DeBartolo, Jr.
    • John Mara
    • Jerry Jones
    • Pat Bowlen
    • Robert Kraft

    Can Draft or Sign PLENTY of guys with character concern to their roster–Win countless Playoff Games & Championships with these dudes. Yet the Glazers & Da’ Bucs are too damn good for them? ——B U L L S H * T

  73. WS99 Says:


    What is this “win” you speak of?

  74. bucgator Says:

    Ok…..I am home from a LOOOONG day and have unbanned myself again. The serious Bucs discussions my now commence

  75. bucgator Says:

    Well I see DB and 87 are here. Where is the rest of the party?

  76. JJV Says:

    Gerald McCoy seems to approve of Hardy to play for the Bucs and has reached out to him as well. Isn’t #93 the Bucs number one model citizen on and off the field? That is an endorsement in my eyes.Lovie has had players with bad reputations on his team. The Bucs and every NFL team in the league have also too in the past, present, and future. It’s a part of the NFL, like it or not.

  77. bucgator Says:

    You know what I woulda loved. To see Tebow go back to his natural position which is LB. He played LB and TE up until his Sr yr in HS.
    Imagine that athleticism and passion at the LB position!!!!

  78. WS99 Says:


    I’m here in spirit my mind is dead.

  79. WS99 Says:

    For the record I could care less about Hardys transgressions. I’m just in total shock that for the last 4 months we’ve been arguing about Winston but Hardy is a must have. That’s all. I just find it hypocritical at best. Obviously this doesn’t apply to 87 cuz 87 loves bad boys. I’m with you bro we need the nasty.

    Speaking of bad boys what’s up with Vick? I’d still like to have him as our vet or Jason Campbell.

  80. SW500cal Says:

    Sign the Kraken

    To Hell with Losing!!!

    Let’s pull the trigger Glazers

  81. MariotaOrWinstonOrWalkdaPlank Says:

    Hardy is a must-sign. After the Ghost Johnson incident Lovie better not put anyone on the line as a starter who has not proved himself (unless a promising rookie like Williams but HIGHLY unlikely and unwanted). Who do we have right now to play DE other than Jacquies(?) Smith? Da’Quan Bowers? Will Gholston?

  82. bucgator Says:

    @ DB
    I try to stay out of it lest I be labeled a Winston Hater easier than most due to my Gators Alum status. That being said even IF both of these guys are guilty there is no comparison of Rape to DV. Rape is something inherently devious. ONE incident of DV could have been her fault. It could be he was drunk and lost rationale. One way or the other without a pattern of behavior established one can not look at a first time DV offender and say ” Youre a P.O.S. Just as we cant look at Winston and say the same thing because he was never tried

  83. LUVMYBUCS Says:


    Winston’s transgressions has never been part of the reasons– Why I would prefer the organization to trade down and grab a boat load of picks.

  84. MariotaOrWinstonOrWalkdaPlank Says:

    Although I do find it funny that guys like Hardy and Johnny Rehab get the thumbs up from Joe but Incognito got a hammering on this site, look how that O-line turned out. 😉

    I think the same will happen to the D-line without a guy like Hardy this year.

  85. bucgator Says:

    Yeah WalkeddaPlank. Incognito was guilty of nothing but bullying weak minded men. Not saying that is Cool but Jeesh if you can’t stand up for yourself as a 300+ pound Pro Athlete then I don’t know what to tell ya. I was ALL FOR the Incognito signing

  86. cmurda Says:

    I don’t get how there is a proven stud like Hardy available and an absolute dire need at DE and we aren’t even making a real attempt at the guy. Forget the drama, I’m tired of picking up choir boys that suck at football. The list of needed starters isn’t exactly shrinking, we have a boatload of cap space, and our last 10 years of drafts have been booty. Schiano probably had the best one. This makes no sense. Before the cap restrictions, we pretty much were in Top 5 available cap space and that pisses me off and many other fans. Put out a product we can embrace dammit. Our needs:QB, 2 OL, 1 really 2 DE, LB, starting safety (ok, I admit Conte isn’t good enough. He’s just depth), WR3/KReturner. That’s 8 positions out of 22 that we need to address because we don’t have a legit starter in place. Mind numbing to go into the draft with boatloads of cap space and try to fill that many needs.

  87. Chris@Apple Roof Cleaning Says:

    If Hardy is smart, he will try for a one year only contract with Tampa. Playing next to McCoy,with Lovie and Frazier’s mastery of defensive blitzes, will insure he sets pass rushing records here in Tampa, that will greatly increase his long term value even more.

    On another forum, a poster said that McCoy is doing his best to try and convince Hardy to come to Tampa. This forum member said he subscribes to McCoy’s tweets. Perhaps McCoy will be successful at convincing Hardy that Tampa has a better future ahead of us ?

  88. bucgator Says:

    Never thought of it that way Chris. That would give hardy more value next yr.

  89. cmurda Says:

    I may have to recant some of what I said. I just read that while the Cowboys are the favorites the Bucs aren’t going away quietly. It at least idicates we are making an effort. Hopefully a serious effort.

  90. bucrightoff Says:

    Unless Tampa is overpaying, Dallas offers him more profile and a better chance to get a huge deal next offseason. He might come here for a 6-10 team and not make any money for himself. Only scenario I see him in Tampa is by overpaying, all other things equal, Dallas or Seattle just offers him a chance to make more money next offseason.

    Hardy taking a physical in Dallas tomorrow, dinner with Satan and company tonight. Sounds like a formality at this point.

  91. StPeteBucsFan Says:


    Yeah WalkeddaPlank. Incognito was guilty of nothing but bullying weak minded men.

    This is what NOTHING looks like?

    While at Nebraska…. During his second game, against Troy State, he was accused of spitting on a Troy State player.

    Two weeks later, he was ejected for picking a fight in a blowout loss to Penn State.[8] Per NCAA rules, he had to sit out the first half of the Huskers’ next game, against Iowa State.[7]

    In the second-to-last game of the season, against Colorado, he was flagged for a 15-yard personal foul penalty late in the game that largely contributed to the Huskers LOSING to the Buffaloes.[8]

    In the spring of 2003, Incognito got in a fight during practice and was suspended indefinitely by head coach Frank Solich. By this time, Solich and his staff were concerned enough about Incognito’s behavior to send him to the Menninger Clinic in Topeka, Kansas for anger management treatment.[8]

    Incognito was reinstated by the start of the season and started 13 games at left tackle. He was rewarded with a first-team All-Big 12 selection by the Associated Press.[7]

    In February 2004, Incognito was involved in a fight at a party and was charged with three counts of assault. In June, he was found guilty on one of the misdemeanor assault charges and paid a $500 fine.

    Incognito was shifted to center during the 2004 preseason camp. He entered the season with high expectations, listed on a number of preseason lists as a top center and named to the watch list for the Rimington Trophy going to the best center in college football.[9] On September 1, however, he was suspended indefinitely for repeated violations of team rules. The final straw for new coach Bill Callahan came when Incognito got into a fight in the locker room. Within a few weeks, Incognito withdrew from all classes at Nebraska and left Lincoln.[10][8]

    In late September, he transferred to the University of Oregon, only to be dismissed from the team a week later. Head coach Mike Bellotti said Incognito failed to meet the conditions he’d agreed to meet before his arrival in Eugene. Bellotti didn’t elaborate, but Incognito had been required to complete an anger-management course and adhere to a strict code of conduct.[11]

    2007 season with the Rams.

    Incognito played and started at right guard for four games after being inactive for the first four weeks of the season. In early November, Incognito suffered a knee injury that forced him to miss the remainder of season.[14] However, while rehabilitating, it was later revealed that he had been partying nightly.

    2008 season
    Incognito started 15 games at right guard for the Rams, also seeing some playing time at center. On October 17, Incognito was fined three times for a total of $35,000 after the game versus the Washington Redskins.[16] His violations during the game included the repeated verbal abuse of a game official, performing a “major face mask” penalty, and performing a chop block penalty. (which wasn’t called during the game.) Incognito’s behavior nearly lead to a loss after his antics cost the Rams 15 yards before the eventual game-winning field goal.

    2009 season
    On April 17, 2009, the Rams offered Incognito a one-year tender worth $1.01 million, which he signed on May 3.[19] Incognito started all nine games in which he played for the Rams in 2009. On December 13, during the first half of a 47-7 loss to the Tennessee Titans, Incognito drew two 15-yard penalties for headbutting Titans players. Head coach Steve Spagnuolo benched him for the second half, and the two got into a heated confrontation on the sidelines. It was the second time Incognito had been benched for losing his composure; he’d been pulled from the season opener against Seattle for two personal fouls. However, the Titans incident was the last straw; the Rams waived him two days after the game.[20] In 2013, former Rams general manager Billy Devaney told ESPN that Spagnuolo had given Incognito numerous chances to clean up his act, and had put him on notice that the Rams would cut ties with him if he couldn’t control his anger.[21]

    The two personal fouls led to a $50,000 fine from the NFL and a letter from the league office warning him that “future infractions of the types you have committed may lead to increased disciplinary action up to and including suspension.”[22] In four years with the Rams from 2006 to 2009, Incognito drew 38 penalties, including seven unnecessary roughness calls, more than any other player during that span.

    All this courtesy of Wikipedia. Sorry for the long post but it’s hard to document the “nothing” that poor misunderstood Richie the scumbag has been responsible for.

  92. Buc1987 Says:

    Icognito seems like a bad ass….sign em up.

  93. tmaxcon Says:


    I am in Austin texas listening in a sports bar and the local talking heads are all but guaranteeing that Hardy is a cowboy.

    interestingly and I am surprised there is no cry out in Austin which is one of the most liberal cities in America despite being in Texas. It’s Boulder, CO south.

  94. cmurda Says:

    So Pete Prisco ranks the free agency for all teams. The grades for the NFC South are D for the Bucs, Panthers, and Aints and a C- for the Falcons. Dude must hate the South. I would give us a D for Free Agency also though.

  95. JJV Says:

    Well then Jason better call Drew and make him an offer he can’t refuse.

  96. Buc_You Says:

    Bring him in, he’ll be a great mentor for Winston.

    He can teach him the importance of paying off the Witnesses.

    Just Remember, stay classy Bucs. I guess winning is more important than Character for Coach Smith.

    I guess he didn’t learn everything he could from Coach Dungy.

    Pathetic. Why are we loading up with all these cancers?

  97. MariotaOrWinstonOrWalkdaPlank Says:


    I am in Austin as well and they live, breath, and bleed football here. They could care less about what a guy has done as long as he can play some damn good football.

  98. tmaxcon Says:

    at pluckers. I agree with you totally. I did think one of the groups would at least make a statement or try and get their 15 seconds of fame especially with all the hollyweirdos in town for SXSW…

  99. JJV Says:

    We can remain the worst classy team in the entire NFL. All the winning teams in the NFL follow that plan. It worked for us all these years.

  100. tmaxcon Says:


    do you hold everyone you do business to the same standard. better not shop at any grocery chain or buy gas at a convenience store…

    Just checking I am sure you are not a hypocrite and live your life perfectly…

    They don’t deserve their livelhoods taken away because of an incident. They have both lost millions of dollars. is that not paying the price.

  101. JJV Says:

    We clearly have the highest standards as Bucs fans for our team. We have never sinned , made mistakes, nor done anything wrong in our lives. Therefore we should not accept any cancers on our team. We should change our name to the Saints. Then we shall have a clear conscious.

  102. tmaxcon Says:

    MariotaOrWinstonOrWalkdaPlank you are not one of the group of guys that watches bucs at Warehouse south austin are you?

    I just saw my first negative report on Hardy in Texas. 10 seconds max. no reaction from the women here. Some of this Longhorn female fans are every bit as ruthless as the guys.

    One of the on air guys is backing stepping that it’s a done deal. another is standing firm it’s done. i sure hope Lovie does the right thing.

  103. WS99 Says:

    No worries that means we get the child abuser. It’s all good.

  104. MariotaOrWinstonOrWalkdaPlank Says:

    Nah that wouldn’t be me. Lol and yeah, they are ruthless. Got invited to last year’s Texas v Oklahoma State game, and since the Horns beat Oklahoma that season, everybody there was pumped for this game. The Longhorns got thrashed, and every OSU fan in the stadium let them know it, then immiedietaly regretted it. It was ugly. But I was wearing a Longhorns cap so I had fun. 🙂

  105. MariotaOrWinstonOrWalkdaPlank Says:

    Yeah, the way I see it Jerry Jones has a pick between AP or Hardy, can’t have both with his cap space. Put AP behind that Dallas line and I guarantee you he breaks the single season rushing and TD record. But it’s not certain he will leave Minny, so he might have to gamble with Hardy.

  106. bucgator Says:

    @SPBF ……….lol. No I had no idea about all the other bs was when he was in college. As a Bucs fan I certainly did not follow the whole thing that heavily. Still though it seems as if his problem is a small weenie and he wants to fight other Men about it and not women. If the Locker Room can keep his ass in check let him take his small man’s complex out on opposing teams. He is an OL not the face of our franchise. For all I know he may not be any good. All I know is that our OL Needs some nastiness

  107. Capt.Tim Says:

    Unleash the Kraken!!
    Then we draft o-linemen 2-3 and maybe 4th round

  108. Buc1987 Says:

    Just went around to some Cowboys blogs. Yep they have fans that don’t want him either.

    Capt. Tim where the hell have you been? On another voyage?

  109. lurker Says:

    via rotoworld
    Greg Hardy – DL – Free Agent

    The Dallas Morning News confirms the Cowboys could have an agreement with free agent Greg Hardy by Wednesday.

    Hardy had dinner with Cowboys coaches on Tuesday evening, and will take a physical on Wednesday. It’s doubtful things would have progressed this far if both sides weren’t confident they could make the numbers work. The only other team that appears to be in the running for Hardy’s services is the Bucs.

    Related: Cowboys
    Source: Dallas Morning News

  110. cmurda Says:

    It seems Hardy will be a Cowboy. He’s a guy that would have transformed our D Line but at least we can play the “he’s a woman beater” card and make ourselves feel better.

  111. todd Says:

    unreal how the bucs won’t offer greg hardy more money then dallas ? it wouls have worked for us draft qb round 0ne lt round two and 3rd round guard.

  112. Sick of the debate Says:

    Buc1987 Says: 
    March 17th, 2015 at 6:34 pm

    Can someone answer this for me?

    Why does all this off the field crap bother some fans so much?

    Can’t they just watch the game and not worry about what the player does with his private life?

    Must be the TMZ generation…

    Come on bro….. How many hours a week do you spend surfing the web for Bucs news? How many arguments have you/all of us gotten into defending your opinion of a players off field issues or on field play. Its impossible to stay out of their private lives. The internet has taken away and privacy athletes/celebs/politicians/entertainers ever had. Its a business for bloggers and website owners (like Joe) to delve deep and look for any crumb of gossip to report on. It is what it is. Hell, look on facebook and see how many people out there are now publicly shaming everyday, ordinary people because they are living the way we think they should.

    It doesnt hurt that for the most part are are able to stay anonymous, yet completely tear someone to shreds for doing things that we feel is wrong. But, we get to criticize and even slander without reprisal. Its an ugly monster, but we are all addicted to it.

  113. JFF Says:

    “There is no clear cut evidence Joe is aware of that slaps a guilty-dirtbag label on Hardy.”

    You sound awfully naive Joe. Do you have to see Hardy chokeslam the chick with your own eyes for it to be real?

    Regardless I don’t think the Bucs should sign Hardy; I think they must.

  114. ddneast Says:

    Great post StPeteBucsFan. Love it when facts, not slanted opinions and rumors are presented in such an orderly fashion.
    Tmaxcon, I laughed out loud when you said Texas women were just as ruthless as men when it came to football in the state.
    How true. The ruling class in Texas, men and women, are just ruthless period.
    Why I’m glad I moved out of the state 40 years ago and have never wanted to return.
    A more dysfunctional group of people gathered in in one area than any other state in the union including California and Florida.

  115. ddneast Says:

    Speak for yourself “sick of the debate.” I don’t and never will have a Facebook or Twitter account.
    What you are doing is projecting your own weak character and beliefs onto others. This also makes you pompous.
    Just because you can’t stop gossiping and trying to peek behind the blinds of your neighbors, doesn’t mean the rest of us have an unstoppable urge to do so.
    Put down your little electronic toys and get a life.