Warren Moon Is Down On Marcus Mariota
January 9th, 2015
Warren Moon doesn’t see Russell Wilson in Marcus Mariota.
Hall of Fame quarterback Warren Moon, the nine-time Pro Bowler who also is a CFL legend, would not draft University of Oregon quarterback Marcus Mariota with the No. 1 overall pick, if he were in the shoes of Lovie Smith and Buccaneers general manager Jason Licht.
As a member of the Seahawks Radio Network, Moon remains connected to the NFL, and Moon offered very firm opinions on CBS Sports Radio this week. On Mariota, he’s unimpressed with him as a pro prospect.
“You know, what scares me about him is that offense he comes out of,” Moon said of Mariota. “It’s not an offense that really transitions well into the National Football League unless you’re going to run that offense.
“If he was going to go to Philadelphia, I would say, ‘Ok, maybe he has a chance of being successful.’ But I’ve never seen him throw the ball in small windows. I’ve never seen him throw the ball with rhythm, just throwing, you know, out routes and curls and different things like that. That’s an offense that’s based off of deception and guys are usually running wide open and he gets them the football. But I would really be concerned about him, in that offense, coming into the National Football League and trying to run a more traditional style of offense. Because it just doesn’t seem to translate because every quarterback that’s come out of Oregon, out of that offense, doesn’t do well in the National Football League.”
Joe finds it fascinating that Moon is down on Mariota. Moon isn’t some stuffy, old school football man. He ran the wild run and shoot offense with precision for the Houston Oilers. However, that offense required the quarterback to read defenses and his receivers’ breaks more than perhaps any other in NFL history.
Moon was more positive about Jameis Winston, though not totally. Joe will share that Winston take in a later post.
Listening to Moon, Joe wondered whether Lovie would be eager to trade down from the No. 1 overall pick.
January 9th, 2015 at 6:41 am
This has been my biggest concern about Mariota from what few games I’ve seen him in. I’ve watched most of Winstons games this year and say what you want about his interceptions and what not. He can throw the ball into tight windows and get the ball to guys in coverage. This is what people are talking about when they say he can make NFL throws. His vision for routes and windows is more developed.
Mariota has some good throws no doubt but from the games I’ve seen he throws to wide open receivers or screen passes. It’s great that he manages that part so well but NFL defenders wont let receivers get as open as Oregons opponents did this year. He will have to let his receivers routes develop in coverage and fit it with pace and timing. Maybe he can, he just hasn’t showed it a lot in college.
I hope the FO don’t f*ck this pick up. Grab the QB Koetter wants then spend two high picks on OL.
January 9th, 2015 at 7:10 am
Moon is saying exactly what Joe, a few others and I have been trying to tell you Mariota lovers….
January 9th, 2015 at 7:24 am
Fellas, check out draftbreakdown.com and come to your own educated conclusions on the two. There’s 22 game tapes of Mariota and 9 of Winston, I agree with Moon, even in his biggest wins, Mariota failed to impress me from an NFL prospect perspective.
January 9th, 2015 at 7:27 am
I think teams fall in love with Mariota’s ability to run and his tall frame. More and mroe “football” people keep saying the same thing, Winston is ready to play NOW, he needs some refinement. I am interested to see who the QB coach will be under action hero Dirk Koetter as well. Take #5, let HOF’er #55 take him under his wing and teach his the way.
January 9th, 2015 at 7:44 am
We have wasted a #1 draft pick on a Hawaiian quarterback before ” The Throwing Samoan aka Jack Thompson” and it did not end well. Winston is hands down the better prospect. If not Winston, then trade down.
January 9th, 2015 at 7:50 am
First McNabb, now Moon against Mariota, hmmmmmmm imagine that. I suppose next week will be Randall Cunningham. All of whom never won the big game and were over rated.
January 9th, 2015 at 7:53 am
Oh and let’s not leave out Fat Boy – Shaun King
January 9th, 2015 at 7:53 am
and once again, can you trust Winston with your franchise? That’s the bigger question here and one you cannot ignore. Besides, Moon always tends to lean one way when it comes to quarterbacks along with Shaun King. Not surprised by this. Also, I’ve gone back and watched all of his throws from this year and there are plenty of NFL style throws Mariota is making. Wonder if Moon did that much before he opened his mouth. The FSU game plan seemed tailored to specifically attack that defense, other games he made different kinds of throws. All will be settle once combine, pro days, interviews, vetting, etc…are done. Trust Koetter.
January 9th, 2015 at 7:58 am
Warren Moon this is tampa, don’t go trying to talk common sense too much because it doesn’t translate well on joebucsfan.com. Oregon QB’s do what in the NFL? I think he can be an exception but in like 2 years not next year because I think he’s good but not a day one starter like winston
January 9th, 2015 at 8:12 am
Jameis Winston is the only pick we should be making with the number one pick.
January 9th, 2015 at 8:15 am
I love all you idiot experts that try and act like you know something by watching ESPN lol.
How qb’s were said could make all the throws? A ton.
How many bust? More than 50 percent.
It’s a coin flip whether either is any good.
So please spare us the “he’s ready now crap”
No one knows if either one will be any good at all.
And no one knows if either is ready.
Every year these “experts” jack these players up as the next coming of Christ only to watch them crash and burn over and over.
It’s pathetic you experts.
Only experts at being stupid.
I’ll say it again. Worst fan base in the league.
January 9th, 2015 at 8:16 am
Remember last year Bridgewater was the consensus number one at this point. It’s entirely possible Mariota won’t go in top ten on draft day.
The analysis by the real NFL people is just starting. Same applies to Winston.
January 9th, 2015 at 8:16 am
Guys like me and 87 have been saying this for weeks now. It is amazing how all of the experts are now saying the same thing. Trent Dilfer was on the radio yesterday saying it as well. It is crystal clear to people actually watching that Mariota is a product of the system he runs and it doesn’t translate to the NFL. There is one team that should take him in the first round and that is Philly. If not for them he should not even be a first round QB. He is a project for anyone that wants to run a pro style offense. GMs would only be guessing that he could transition to the NFL and IMO that is not worthy of a 1st rounder. If the Bucs can’t get comfortable with Winston they should trade down a few spots and try to get Hundley early in the 2nd.
January 9th, 2015 at 8:26 am
It’s a long time til April 30th
January 9th, 2015 at 8:28 am
I agree 100% with Moon, that’s what scares me about Mariota also. He executes that system to perfection but it is a system that’s based on deception which allows his WR’s to get wide open.
January 9th, 2015 at 8:29 am
Moon should shut his mouth. He screamed racism the loudest (In the HOF btw). Moon if you back Winston fine, but just say it’s because he’s black. #GoodOleBrothasNetwork
January 9th, 2015 at 8:34 am
Interesting picture of Moon talking to Russell Wilson who runs a significant portion of the Oregon zone read scheme. It’s because of the zone read that makes Russell and that Seattle offense so effective. Koetter can adopt a zone read very easily for Mariota. Hell, Mariota can even help teach it to other players. With time Mariota will learn more traditional pro sets with quick passing just like Russell has learned to complement the zone read. The zone read is the future not schemes the rely on risky tight windows.
January 9th, 2015 at 8:34 am
@Buc-O’s 82
Don’t forget to add Trent Dilfer and AJ McCarron and several others to your list.
January 9th, 2015 at 8:39 am
An informed fan knows exactly what Warren is referring to.
And uninformed fan just comparea stat lines.
January 9th, 2015 at 8:40 am
@BFFL
The point is Wilson played in a pro-system in college and was a proven pocket passer. His 5’10 height is what caused him to drop to the 3rd round.
January 9th, 2015 at 8:43 am
“You know, what scares me about him is that offense he comes out of,” Moon said of Mariota. “It’s not an offense that really transitions well into the National Football League unless you’re going to run that offense.”
I think more than a few of us have said this again and again.
TheKevin. You’re no expert either. Madden doesn’t count.
People that aren’t happy unless they have something to bitch about eventually get ignored.
January 9th, 2015 at 8:43 am
There is a reason why Mariota’s recievers are usually wide open….
It’s his running threat…defenses have to account for that and it leaves recievers open. It will be interestiing to see how he performs at the combine with his throws.
I expect him to excel with many of the athletic tests.
As I’ve stated before…I will be happy with either QB…..but I willl only sleep well with Mariota. Winston will have to have a (Jeterlike) personal life for a couple of years before I am comfortable.
Those that say “It’s an easy choice”….are fools. I’m glad we not have Koetter & will have a QB coach to help with the decision.
January 9th, 2015 at 8:44 am
If Mariota ran a more traditional offense that allowed his receivers to be covered better and not wide open he would then be able to throw into tighter windows and thus be considered accurate. I not buying this analyst BS. I am starting to see a trend where retired players feel the need to keep Winston relevant for the number 1 spot. I’m not buying it. Does anyone really think the offense that Mariota runs is simple? It requires split second decisions and reads. A traditional pro style would be much more simple offense to run. I personally hate timing routes. All it takes is for defenders to slow up the receiver to disrupt the play.
This is just my opinion like the rest of the Buc fans.
January 9th, 2015 at 8:44 am
The stats are actually in favor of Mariota if you’re just basing your decision on the stats. But if you actually know football and watch and compare games you’ll see it.
January 9th, 2015 at 8:45 am
Yadda yadda yadda. Oregon QB’s traditionally suck in the NFL. Why stop there?
Heisman trophy winners have just as bad a record and kind of amazing if you read the numbers. And so let’s not take an Oregon QB because of that history and obviously then lets not take a Heisman period because of their record of failure.
Since 1950, 27 quarterbacks have been selected as the Heisman Trophy winner. Of those 27, only 20 started at quarterback in at least one NFL game. Among those 20, only four quarterbacks have a winning record in the NFL (regular season). Robert Griffin III is the only Heisman winner with a career passer rating over 90 in the NFL (90.8). Since 1950, the combined NFL winning percentage for quarterbacks who won the Heisman Trophy is under .500 (480-501-4, .489).
So let’s trade the pick for a bunch and try to find the QB somewhere else.
Besides the Heisman weighing around his neck somebody else frightened me about Jameis. He’s already looking a bit pudgy and somebody compared him to Sean King (a low blow and unfair) and Byron Leftwich (something I too can see). This kid has shown zero discipline in his personal life. How do we know he won’t blow up like the Michelin man? And don’t forget. As a Heisman Mariota and Winston have less than a 1-5 chance of making it based on historical stats.
January 9th, 2015 at 8:47 am
@ buc-0 …..LOL
January 9th, 2015 at 8:49 am
Like I said…no Mariotta if he doesn’t have the talent and if the value is there, trade down. Why would we take a guy without the physical talent or a head case? If there isn’t a number 1 quality QB in our minds, there isn’t one…Licht, take those calls.
January 9th, 2015 at 8:58 am
Again trade down we got a real OC lets see what we got in glennon and build the o lone and pick up some defensive needs geezer wiz
January 9th, 2015 at 8:59 am
…Of course there are no guarantees when drafting players. However, I do feel better about drafting either of these guys with the hiring of Koetter. I think he is flexible enough to design an offense to compliment the skill set of whichever QB they possibly select. Koetter has a track record of running successful offenses with both mobile and immobile QB’s. Personally, I would still go with Winston, but I wouldn’t throw my remote at my TV if they drafted Mariota either. Lovie needs to let this guy coach the offense and get out of his way.
January 9th, 2015 at 9:01 am
Sounds like the Manzel hype from last year. I see no Franchise QB’s in this years draft. If the Eagles want Marriota for their system make them pay dearly with draft picks. Winston is not the answer unless you are into throwing millions down the toilet. Once he gets that signing bonus he’s done. Winston and Manzel will be partying at the nearest celeb’s pad.
January 9th, 2015 at 9:01 am
@StPeteBucsFan
That was me that made the comparison. The Sean King reference is because when you look at them in uniform, side by side, they could be brothers. Winston has a “big boned” build like both King and Leftwhich, and he has a bit of a wind up, sort of like Leftwich, but not quite as pronounced.
January 9th, 2015 at 9:02 am
Jack Thompson was drafted in the 1st round by the Bengals, not the Bucs.
January 9th, 2015 at 9:03 am
You know what they say….”If you have two QBs, you don’t have a QB”
Perhaps if we can’t resolve the decision on which one to pick then a trade down makes more sense……and we would probably have trade options with several teams….including Tenn if they were interested in one of the two QBs in particular…..The Jets and Rams would probably come next….and then there’s the Eagles blockbuster trade option…..
Or, we could pick Mariota….wait a year, then have Chip Kelly & Dir Koetter running the offense for Mariota.
January 9th, 2015 at 9:07 am
And so I’ve been searching national pubs for some unbiased opinions. I’m running across a lot of opinions that claim NEITHER of these guys is worth a top pick.
Moves made in desperation rarely pay off in life. The Bucs are desperate for a QB and so that frightens me. But Koetter’s hire has calmed me down. I’ll accept whichever direction he wants to go and cheer for the Bucs.
As for my taste…after reading that Heisman stat…reading all the opinions that claim NEITHER of these two is worth a top pick…I’m for trading down.
Here’s a possible shock for all of us. What if L&L were telling the truth and they believe Glennon IS the QB of the future. As folks have pointed out he’s already been compared to Matty Ice before Koetter ever got here.
It could make sense that Lovie left Glennon on the bench this year to protect him….literally. How many young QB’s have been drafted high and ruined because they were thrown into the mix of an awful offense and not only got their bodies pounded but more importantly their confidence was shattered.
Right now the verdict is still out on Glennon for OBJECTIVE people. I’m not a member of the MGM. But I have seen enough of him to be comfortable giving him a shot next year now that we actually have an NFL OC planning the O and calling the shots.
When I look back at that way Lovie’s keeping Glennon out of the games makes sense. We saw what he “could” do in Pittsburgh and New Orleans. Maybe L&L do see potential in MG8 and simply didn’t want to see his body, mind and soul destroyed by the awful offensive line and horrid play calling.
L&L may yet get the last laugh on all of us!
January 9th, 2015 at 9:07 am
It’s important to note that Moon made this statement before Dirk was hired as Offensive Coordinator. Knowing that the Bucs hired someone capable of implementing the proper offense makes a big difference.
Winston supporters are deceiving themselves. It is going to be Mariota. And rightly so.
January 9th, 2015 at 9:08 am
I don’t understand the notion some of you have that Winston is going to get his money and party his life away. Unlike Manziel, I haven’t heard anything about Winston being some avid party guy. Where is this coming from?
January 9th, 2015 at 9:11 am
Funny how desperate the anti-Winston crowd is getting from all these negative reports by knowledgable football people. It’s only the beginning. MM is not an NFL QB and Jameis will be a Buc on April 30. It sucks to be a Florida Gaytor. Haha
January 9th, 2015 at 9:12 am
rhenry Says
“We have wasted a #1 draft pick on a Hawaiian quarterback before ” The Throwing Samoan aka Jack Thompson” and it did not end well.”
This demonstrates the level of knowledge Winston supporters have.
The Buccaneers never drafted Jack Thompson.
January 9th, 2015 at 9:12 am
Exactly Tampa….no one can “write off” Winston’s behavior…it is who he is. And if Mariota doesn’t have it, why would we draft either? Maybe Joe will give us some info. about the other guys that we might pick if we trade now like O line and pass rushers? The more I see as Joe brings in these articles, the more I’m convinced that trading down is by far the smartest play…if someone wants to sell the farm for either guy.
January 9th, 2015 at 9:13 am
If we don’t take Mariota then I say trade down and get the picks. Winston is not the answer. He needs to grow up first. If we do trade down I say keep Glennon and see what he can do under a real OC. His skill set and body type are almost identical to Matt Ryan. That being said, if the Bucs don’t take Mariota they are idiots! Take Mariota, cut Mccown, trade Glennon for mid-round pick, then pick up a Quality veteran quarterback to mentor Mariota, maybe Hasselbeck.
January 9th, 2015 at 9:13 am
I’m hoping we take whichever prospect has the brighter future. And since we’ve alway’s seem to screw that up, it will be exciting to let it play out. If we select Marriota and he can’t eventually win from the pocket, that would be par for the course for this franchise.
January 9th, 2015 at 9:15 am
Trade back, and let Koetter develop Mike Glennon to be the next Matt Ryan?
LOL.
That would be fun to watch.
January 9th, 2015 at 9:17 am
@BFFL
I agree with you. I think the zone read is the future of the NFL, but you have to be committed to it. RGIII was successful his first year running a lot of zone read too. Kapernick has had success running zone read plays. It’s not just Wilson. If the Bucs take Mariota, they have to incorporate it. Look at how bad RGIII looked in his first year without many zone read plays. A good OC should be able to tailor their type of offense with the tools(players) that they have on hand.
Oh and to destroy the notion that zone read college QBs don’t transfer well to the NFL. Look no further than our own division. Cam Newton is pretty good. He’s the only threat on that offense and still has his team in the second round of the playoffs.
January 9th, 2015 at 9:17 am
Oh yeh, Thank god Warren Moon, Sean king, Derrick Brooks etc. don’t make personnel calls for this team! All I see out of Mariota is Winner both on and off the field.
January 9th, 2015 at 9:18 am
StPeteBucsFan and I are on the same page here. .. Glennon needs and deserves a legit OC. And tanking for trade picks was smart. Look I like me some fast paced O but lovie aint stupid lets see the method to his madness… Rome wasn’t built in a day… and we might be surprised with a matty ice gift too…
January 9th, 2015 at 9:22 am
“Trade back, and let Koetter develop Mike Glennon to be the next Matt Ryan?”
_______
And after that, I’ll invite Koetter to my wedding to turn some water into wine.
January 9th, 2015 at 9:28 am
Zone read kills your QB. Yes, it is effective with your option QBs when they’re healthy enough to play. RG3 was tearing it up until his knee got tore up again and he was dealt multiple concussions. Cam Newton was been injured all year (missed at least 2 games)and has only recently tried to put the team on his back and run more. There offense has been horrible all year. Kaepernick was doing ok, when they were allowing him to run, but in an attempt to keep him healthy, they’ve tried to keep him in the pocket and his numbers have been poop.
January 9th, 2015 at 9:31 am
If Mariota demonstrates an ability to take snaps from under center and go deep in his next game, opinions of these “pros” will change.
The Tennessee Titans WILL NOT trade up. Won’t happen, people.
The Eagles WILL NOT trade for the #1 pick. It would cost them far too much from #20.
The best and most likely trade partner is Washington. We could get RGIII and picks, and still have the #5 pick for offensive line. Washington would get their guy to replace RGIII.
January 9th, 2015 at 9:34 am
BuccaneerBonzai,
We may not have drafted Jack Thompson, but we did trade our #1 pick to the Bengals for him.
That pick, by the way, turned out to be the #1 pick of the first round in 1984.
Didn’t turn out to well.
January 9th, 2015 at 9:38 am
Trent Dilfer knows a lot about missing wide open receivers.
January 9th, 2015 at 9:44 am
Weight has never been an issue in Winston’s entire career. Ever.
This is a kid who, after having a slow 40 time (4.95) at Bama’s football camp in college worked his tail off over the following year. The following camp? 4.6 flat.
He plays two sports and maintains his grades. He watches lots of film. All things that require drive and disciplen. But, he’s going to get fat? That’s reaching at it’s finest.
Lots of QBs carry weight during the season. Did Big Ben get fat?
January 9th, 2015 at 9:44 am
*not college. High School.
January 9th, 2015 at 9:49 am
Yeah but Mr. Afternoon Drive-Time has irrefutable “stats” on his homepage regarding Marcus Mariota which prove all the experts out there (you know, those guys who actually played QB in the NFL) are wrong…
January 9th, 2015 at 9:52 am
So some would rather draft a guy with poor character, that may have baseball in his back pocket, and will have millions in his pockets and never ending temptations, to lead this team for the next five years? You trade down on that in a heartbeat…if the value is there.
If Mariota doesn’t have the talent? Same thing.
In either case, if you are Lovie, you are putting the rest of your contract in the hands of one of them, and likely your ability to ever head coach again…if you draft one or the other. You better be as sure as you can that you have done all your homework.
January 9th, 2015 at 9:58 am
using matt ryan and mike glennon in the same sentence. WOW
Someone needs a drug test.
January 9th, 2015 at 10:01 am
As someone said earlier, the Oregon offense is much more complex and requires the QB to make many more in play decisions than the “Pro Style” offense Winston has run. Ever wonder why Winston has only run “Pro Style” offenses when every other HS and College program in America runs spread offenses which require split second decision making from their QBs?
January 9th, 2015 at 10:03 am
@tampabaybucfan,
True about defense respecting the run. But, let’s also account for the fact that he will be in a league where defenders are faster. Also, we just haven’t seen that style work yet. KAepernick and Vick would prob be the closest to proving that style works.
January 9th, 2015 at 10:07 am
@flmike,
I probably make the same amount of decisions in a day of work as josh Mccown does on Sunday’s. Does that mean I can play QB? Mariota is making pre snap decisions for a unique offense. Winston is making pre snap decisions AND then making post snap decisions as well, meaning his progressions. Mariotas post snap are mostly first read, run.
January 9th, 2015 at 10:09 am
Wasn’t Brooks, King & all these former Bucs in favor of drafting Manzel? These guys need to stick to analyzing players who are on the team already and not worry about who is being drafted where….Too much hype for these average players!
January 9th, 2015 at 10:12 am
Hey C-Rock, Buccaneer Bonzai…this shows what level of knowledge the Mariota Mafia has, Jack Thompson was acquired in a trade from the Bengals where the Bucs gave up what turned out to be the #1 overall pick in the draft…for the throwin samoan…let that sink in. Turned into Irving Fryar.
January 9th, 2015 at 10:13 am
The Bucs are 10 Players away from being competitive not 1 QB away. Not a popular theory, but trading down my be in the best interest of the franchise in the long haul.
January 9th, 2015 at 10:15 am
Lol @tmax. They have some similarities in style and ability. One of them is much better than the other though… I’m sure you prob know who that is.
January 9th, 2015 at 10:18 am
if tampa is in the consensus here, as everyone else than I agree trade down a couple spots to Tennessee they get one of the ‘BIG TWO’ then we get extra picks and draft petty. he can flat out play too, might be the smartest move this club has done in years, remember we get first pick in the second round also. anyway this years draft shakes out, there is going to be some highly pissed fans either way they go, but hey their already used to that. I for one am going to support who ever they draft, as long as it is a damn QB first!
January 9th, 2015 at 10:24 am
@ihateloviesmith
First of all we only trade down to the 2nd pick with Tenn….and they have the first pick in round 2 (we alternate picks with them throughout the draft)
I suggested we trade with Tenn…..recieve extra picks then get the “leftover QB”…..Joe said we would be stupid to do that…..(don’t understand how)
Now….as for trading down and picking up Petty…..not a bad option at all….I think he is going to be a very good QB in the NFL…
January 9th, 2015 at 10:25 am
Were bad fans because were excited about having the number one pick?
Didn’t Dungy/McKay?Wyche turn the team around with draft choices who became great players?
We would be good fans if we ignore the draft and just assume we will suck for all eternity?
I hope the bucs don’t decide based on who would more likely to start the first game next year. The question is who will become the better player.
Not a good idea to throw either to the wolves first game IMO. Play it smart, let them develop.
Marcus could only do what his team asked him to do. Maybe the guy would be fabulous in pro style, who knows.
January 9th, 2015 at 10:27 am
Deception and finding the wide open man?… How dare he. Bubble screens and spread offenses in the NFL? It won’t work- just ask the eagles.
We tried to Hire Chip Kelly.
We hired Teford to run uptempo.
“Speed in space”…
We drafted a faster running back with good hands.
We hired Dirk Koetter who calls bubble screens all day and calls an uptempo offense.
So… why are people thinking we are trying to run a traditional pro style offense? Look at the clues guys… This screams Mariota. I’m sorry, but it just does.
January 9th, 2015 at 10:36 am
Even Joe has stated he has absolutely no idea who we will draft…..we may not know until the announcement is made…..now, that’s exciting Buc fans!!!
January 9th, 2015 at 10:38 am
@flMike
According to Winston’s HS scouting report they ran the read option in HS.
January 9th, 2015 at 10:40 am
Yeah don’t listen to one of the greatest of all time HOFer that slung the ball like no other who lives up in Duck country covering the Seahawks! Go to stroke each other in the echo chamber of a Mariota fanboy site and leave us reasonable fans alone.
January 9th, 2015 at 10:49 am
Now that we know the OC hire it’s time to roll out Mikey Ice Glennon in Tampa 🙂 With the first pick in the 2015 NFL draft Lovie Smith…err the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select Leonard Williams USC. Get ready for it folks…at least it ends the Mariota/Winston debates.
January 9th, 2015 at 10:51 am
Posey,
Not saying hose things aren’t good or don’t work. Maybe you know something most of us don’t. I can promise you that Winston can do most of the things Matty ice can. Come to think of it, there’s a guy who had a wind up and has slowly quickened his release over the years.
January 9th, 2015 at 10:51 am
You silly guys still think we might not pick Mariota….. SMH. I guarantee we pick him. And he’ll be an effective QB from Day 1. -At least we finally got a Mariota article, albeit a negative one. Anyone who would rather have Winston and his questionable character is a moron.
January 9th, 2015 at 10:53 am
Winston was a 5 star recruit and ranked the #1 dual that QB in the country in 2012. Mariota was a 3 star recruit and ranked #12 on the 2011 list. Who says Winston can’t run?
January 9th, 2015 at 11:03 am
Geez if looking at recruiting stats means anything how would everyone feel about settling on a 4 star recruit who was the #3 QB in the nation and trading down from the #1 spot this year? Best part is the Bucs already have that guy on their roster for under $600K!
January 9th, 2015 at 11:26 am
That was only to point out to flMike that he has the ability to be a running QB like Mariota but doesn’t need to run.
January 9th, 2015 at 11:37 am
Mike Glennon is back.. QB of the future.. maybe lovie was telling the truth..
January 9th, 2015 at 11:37 am
I don’t care. It’s all speculation and opinion.
Mine is either would be the best QB the BUCS have had i over a decade.
Winston is ready for the NFL physically and makes reads but not sure if his maturity level is ready and can handle it with millions thrown at him.
Marcus has evrything you want except he hasn’t run a pro style offense. He seems to be the type that can adapt. Besides, the MAJORITY of college football QBs don’t run a pro style offense over the decades.
Regardless, take one of them, pair him with an OC and keep them together for years. That is the key to success.
January 9th, 2015 at 11:38 am
“But I’ve never seen him throw the ball in small windows. I’ve never seen him throw the ball with rhythm, just throwing, you know, out routes and curls and different things like that.”
****************
I stopped reading after this. That shows me right there that Moon never watched Mariota and is just supporting Winston because he is black. Interesting how you only show that Black QBs support Winston Joe. Where are the other QBs?
January 9th, 2015 at 11:39 am
Some of you guys are funny. The zone read is not an offense, it is a play. The spread offenses as in the style of offense the ducks play is the offense moon was referring to. Those type of Qbs don’t translate well ie Tebow, RG3, previous Oregon qbs, and it took Alex smith 8 years before he became a competent NFL QB. Tebow completed over 65 percent of his passes in college and threw for over 30 tds and only 5 ints multiple years in the college. That type of offense has a way of making a qb look good when they really are not. That’s not to say Mariotta can’t be good in the NFL, but the risk is higher. Before I go though……….Again the zone read is not an offense, it is one play.
January 9th, 2015 at 11:40 am
Moon is a Washington Huskie so its not surprising that he is not saying nice things about an Oregon Duck. That would be like a Gator giving ringing endorsements to an UGA prospect or any FSU fan saying anything nice about the Gators, Bama or Auburn; its just not going to happen. But the Winston lovers will use Moon as ammo as will those who feel that the Bucs can not afford to risk the #1 overall on a risky qb and think that the Bucs can get a king’s ransom for trading the pick down with an RG3 package from the Jets or skins or even 3 first rounders, 3 2nds and a qb from the Eagles…. None of us have any remoote clue as to what the Bucs will do until April and we are all hoping against hope that L&L and the Glazers do not bugger the draft and free agency up as they obviously did last offseason with the exception of Mike Evans and the kicker….
January 9th, 2015 at 11:44 am
Waterboy….Jameis is certainly athletic and powerful enough to run but when you guys are posting tributes about how he worked his butt off to lower his 40 to 4.6 that’s not exactly a 40 that will cut it the NFL. But he’s strong enough to shake off tacklers in the pocket and keep a play alive so I give him credit as a “runner” in that regards. Don’t expect any long runs in the NFL though. 4.6 may be the slower than the slowest defensive player on the field.
@Toes
“Smith…err the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select Leonard Williams USC. Get ready for it folks…at least it ends the Mariota/Winston debates.”
If you look at the compendiums of a 100 mock drafts there are quite a few who have Williams in the #1 spot. So you might very well be correct. And there is enough expert selection behind that choice that Lovie would have cover.
I want Andrus Peat!!! He’s a beast and finally announced he’s coming out this year. A franchise tackle like Paul Gruber! Some gurus have him as high as the 3rd pick. I can’t see wasting a #1 on an OT but if that’s the BPA what are the choices. Trade down and hope you can still get Peat or Williams?
January 9th, 2015 at 11:45 am
All I know is the both QBs have scouting combine, pro days, and private workouts ahead of them. Maybe we should all take a deep breath, and reserve final judgement until these events are complete.
January 9th, 2015 at 11:46 am
And to you guys that are saying that Oregon’s offense is more complex than a Pro style offense needs to stop commenting now because it is obvious you have no clue. Making up points because it helps support your argument for mariotta does not make it true.
January 9th, 2015 at 11:48 am
Fort Myers Dave….Moon was just telling like it is. I don’t think it has anything to do with his alma mater. Oh well to each his own I guess.
January 9th, 2015 at 11:48 am
This whole QB debate reminds me of the dumbest thing I’ve ever done. My first new car was a 68 VW Bug convertible. When I got back from Vietnam it wasn’t “hot” enough for me and certainly no chick magnet. I traded for a Fiat 850. Sexy looking and not worth a crap.
So what do we do. Make the “sexy” pick and take either of the Heismans who statistically have a less than 1 in 7 chance of being successful, or the BPA?
Is it the VW with dependability, proven performance, or is it the Fiat that looks so great sitting there in the garage?
January 9th, 2015 at 11:49 am
@bucnjim
King was not in the draft Manziel camp. He wanted bridgewater. And Brooks never campaign for the bucs to pick any player. Stop making things up.
January 9th, 2015 at 11:50 am
Tackleblockwin FTW!!!!
All I know is the both QBs have scouting combine, pro days, and private workouts ahead of them. Maybe we should all take a deep breath, and reserve final judgement until these events are complete.
Best post of the day!!!
January 9th, 2015 at 11:54 am
StPeteBucsFan ….Here’s Mariota’s 40 times.
Low 40 : 4.42 High 40 : 4.64
January 9th, 2015 at 11:55 am
“All I know is the both QBs have scouting combine, pro days, and private workouts ahead of them. Maybe we should all take a deep breath, and reserve final judgement until these events are complete.”
So what you’re essentially saying is this. STOP coming to JBF.
Because that’s all we are going to be talking about for the next 4 months.
January 9th, 2015 at 11:58 am
Except for Dungy, everybody who has watched both play and only restricted their comparison to on-the-field stuff are saying Winston is a far better pro-prospect than Mariota.
The question remains however, is he worth the risk? I have a feeling the answer to that question is yes.
January 9th, 2015 at 12:04 pm
@ Stpetebuc
Cam Newton and Adrew luck ran a 4.6 at the combine. Not sure why that speed would not cut it. Does Brady run a 4.6? I don’t think so. Again, not sure why 4.6 would not cut it. Please explain
January 9th, 2015 at 12:09 pm
“4.6 that’s not exactly a 40 that will cut it the NFL”
We aren’t talking about running backs or spread option QBs. And, the point wasn’t even about speed in the NFL. It was to demonstrate that he works hard to improve perceived weaknesses, and has never been the type to blimp up as alluded to in comparison to Jamarcus, etc.
Also,
40 times:
Roethlisberger – 4.75
Matty Ice – 4.89
Cam Newton – 4.58
Drew Brees – 4.83
Aaron Rodgers – 4.71
So, yeah, a prostyle QB, who’s huge and difficult to be taken down and moves well in the pocket, will REALLY STRUGGLE with a 4.6 time.
C’mon man.
January 9th, 2015 at 12:10 pm
Trade down and address the ten starters that must be replaced. There are more then two qbs in this draft and I wouldn’t be surprised if one or more of them turn out to be better then the duck or Seminole.
January 9th, 2015 at 12:31 pm
I will never be completely sold on Jameis Winston. I have seen too many “Pro-Style” college quarterbacks, with strong arms and great field vision, turn into NFL busts. A player needs talent to play in the NFL but more importantly (in my opinion) a player needs maturity and work ethic. I am not sold on Mariotta, but if Tampa has to draft a qb this year at #1, I would pick Mariotta. He has shown an unrivaled work ethic in college, and maturity on the level of Manning, Rodgers, and Brady. I think he has the physical talent to “make it” in the NFL but he has the mental capacity to be a superstar. The whole played in this system in college argument is completely invalid to me. I have never seen a QB come out of college and then play in the same system in the NFL. Sanchez and Foles played in a COMPLETELY different offenses in college and the NFL than they are playing in now. Yes it is a good scheme but the fact is they are PROFESSIONALS(just like Mariota will be when he is drafted) and it is their job to adjust. Does anybody truly believe that, with this kid’s work ethic and intelligence, he is not going to be able to run whatever offense he is asked too? Can he throw an accurate Football? YES. Does he have the best work ethic to come out of college in years? YES. Is he an athlete? YES. Does he panic under pressure? NO. It is a lot easier to teach a person to adjust their physical process rather than try to teach them how to change their mental process. With Winston expect 2 fabulous statistical years (with few wins, cause he is still playing for the BUCS), and when the wins don’t materialize he will turn into a bag of careless interceptions and fumbles a la Josh
Freeman(dude would shrug his shoulders and smile when he threw a pic his last 2 yrs). Neither one of them are a sure thing, But I would rather try to recondition 4-8yrs of physical processes rather than try to recondition a lifetime of mental processes.
January 9th, 2015 at 12:35 pm
@Skyline Crew for Mariota or Winston – Shut your freaking piehole and take it to stormfront. There’s always got to be one dufus that brings race up every time. Here’s a clue, if you judge people and their comments based solely on their race YOU ARE THE PROBLEM. Freaking jamoke…
January 9th, 2015 at 12:37 pm
Brett – Mariota has shown work ethic but Winston hasn’t? You CANNOT be serious. I would suggest you speak to his coach and teammates before making RIDICULOUS and easily debunked statements like the one you just made. Nobody has EVER accused Winston of having a bad work ethic, EXACTLY the opposite is said by you know the people who actually know the kid.
January 9th, 2015 at 12:39 pm
I will add that I still think Glennon can be a Phenomenal QB. I saw him make some throws, under duress, and on the move that made my jaw drop. I think that Lovie may be way smarter than all of us. We will not draft a QB. We will trade down (Lovie has been REALLY trying to acquire picks this year) or draft Williams #1. Please make me eat all that $hit I talked on you all year Lovie. I love my pride, but I love my Bucs more.
January 9th, 2015 at 12:43 pm
@skyline,
Joe maybe hasn’t pointed them out, but there are plenty of non-black scouts, former players, and nfl personnel types out there who have recommend Winston over Mariota. Just off the top of my head, the well known ones: dilfer, herbstreit, golic, mcShay. Use the google machine, you’ll find plenty more.
January 9th, 2015 at 12:46 pm
@ChanEpic
Not one sentence in my post knocked Winston’s work ethic, I just said Mariotta’s is on another level. Winston obviously was bored and had time to get in trouble, cover up/deny the trouble, then go to/miss hearings of said trouble. Mariota on the other hand displayed took 20 credit hours and still posted phenomenal numbers. Then the next year when he was only taking 4 credit hours(which would leave a lot of time for boredom) He led his team to the National Title game. My whole point is given the choice between a QB with unheard of physical talent but VERY questionable mental fortitude, and a player with plenty of NFL level talent(but not phenomenal) and mental fortitude that is light years beyond the next guy. I would go with the brains.
January 9th, 2015 at 12:51 pm
Brett – Gotcha. You are correct Mariota is definitely a very upstanding young man. No argument from me there.
January 9th, 2015 at 12:53 pm
@brett,
If you think that Winston doesn’t have great work ethic, then you don’t know what you’re talking about. Kid was dissecting NFL defenses in 8th grade for fun. He’s a two sport athlete that excels at both. I’m not saying your comments on Mariota are wrong, but they don’t disprove anything about winstons ability or work ethic. He is a winner and a competitor to his core. It’s his identity, it’s all he knows. I would bet your impression of him as a person has been incredibly influenced by the likes of ESPN, NYT, TMZ, etc.
January 9th, 2015 at 1:01 pm
what a surprise joe! why is it everyone you put on here is Winston fans and hate to say it all African American. and none likes mariota huh! sounds funny to me.
January 9th, 2015 at 1:02 pm
@Matt,
My impressions of him(mentally) were not influenced by anyone but his own actions. He obviously does not have the awareness to keep himself out of situations where he could be falsely accused of a crime or where he would be tempted to commit a crime. In the NFL temptation is abundant and the opportunity to become a target is multiplied 100x. Mariota and Winston are both Heisman trophy winners playing in nationally prominent programs. One has the mental fortitude to only be a positive for his team on and off the field. One kept their head in books and nose clean, the other got into plenty of trouble and production dropped when they had a full year of hype and promotion under their belt. That is all I am saying.
January 9th, 2015 at 1:02 pm
@brett,
I don’t mean this personally, but your comments are so easily countered. Winston had the time? Besides class, when Winston isn’t playing football, he’s playing baseball. When he isn’t playing baseball, he’s playing football. Yea he has time to go out and get some pu**y, BECAUSE THATS WHAT REAL MEN DO WHEN THEY ARE IN THEIR 20s. Maybe if you were an alpha, you’d understand that. And lack of mental fortitude?! That makes me doubt you could comprehend what it takes to be a kid that can play at such a high level in two sports, win a title, and stay focused and positive, while American media tries to destroy your reputation and your family name any chance they get. Maybe he brought some of this on himself, but that’s besides the point. If Jameis hasnt proven supreme work ethic and mental fortitude… maybe you’re blind/deaf?
January 9th, 2015 at 1:02 pm
but moon likes Wilson ok he is not a pocket passer huh interesting!
January 9th, 2015 at 1:06 pm
@Matt,
I have never seen an eighth grader in the NFL so I see no validity in him dissecting NFL defenses in the eighth grade. Maybe you meant he was studying (on paper, not the field) NFL defenses in the eighth grade? I also want to say that the term dissecting a defense is generally reserved for the physical act of “carving” up a defense not looking at papers.
January 9th, 2015 at 1:10 pm
@Matt,
None of my posts have stated “Winston has no work ethic and no mental fortitude”. I have clearly stated that Mariota has displayed a far greater work ethic and a more mental fortitude than Winston. Do you think that Mariota has gone 3yrs without getting laid? I think that is ridiculous. The difference is Mariota has not done or been accused of anything criminal. Which to me shows a far greater mental process. Read what I wrote. Don’t put words in my mouth.
January 9th, 2015 at 1:23 pm
@brett
dissect: methodically cut up to study it’s internal parts; analyze something in minute detail.
My point is, if someone enjoys something so much they do it in their free time, it’s probably a good profession for them to be in. It’s the ideal situation all humans wish they could have.
January 9th, 2015 at 1:30 pm
THE GREAT BOBBY BEATHARD
At the time many thought he may have been one beer short of a 12 pack. Yet he was never criticize unjustly. No one ever suggested he walked around like a frightened dog with his tail tucked between his legs. Bold Yes…cowardly not even close. In fact you had to have a big pair testicles to be Bobby Beathard.
“They Called Him The Smartest Man In Football”
The Great Bobby Beathard- had a penchant for trading away 1st round draft picks-He would trade back and grab a cluster of good premium prospects (More Is Always Better) Sure folks called him crazy at the time-But now looking back on Beathard’s record shows- that he had a hand in seven teams that reached the Super Bowl with the Dolphins, Redskins and Chargers. Four of those teams won Super Bowls, and he gained his reputation as “the smartest man in football.
Over Looking his last couple years in San Diego
Bobby Beathard drafted 17 quarterbacks prior to Leaf’s selection. Here’s the Kicker… None in the first or second rounds-(Should have stayed true to his formula)
• Beathard had seen Don Strock, a fifth-rounder with the Dolphins in ’72, become a vital quarterback on championship teams.
• Even though Beatharddidn’t draft Joe Theismann with the Dolphins — Theismann was a fourth-round pick by Miami in ’71 and signed by the Redskins in ’74 out of the CFL
• When Tampa Bay gave up on Doug Williams, a former No. 1 pick, Beathard brought him in to rescue the Redskins in 1987
• Beathard took Mark Rypien in the sixth round in ’86; Rypien won a Super Bowl in ’91
• Beathard also used a sixth-rounder to select Stan Humphries in ’88, his last draft with the Redskins. Humphries led the Chargers to their unlikely Super Bowl appearance against the San Francisco 49ers, albeit it a losing effort.
• Beathard selected Indiana quarterback Trent Green in the eighth round of the ’93 draft- As a St. Louis official recently noted, it could have been Green, not Kurt Warner, who led the the Rams to their Super Bowl title had Green not suffered a major knee injury late in the ’99 preseason.
January 9th, 2015 at 1:32 pm
@matt
Again the phrase “dissecting defenses” is GENERALLY reserved for the physical act of “carving” up a defense not looking at papers. When people are talking about studying football they GENERALLY they use phrases like “watched film” or “broke down the tape”. If you want to be 1 of the 3 people that refer to studying film as “dissecting defenses” then you have every right to. I am just saying that for the majority of us who hear then phrase “dissecting defenses”, we think of Matty Ice on Thursday night football against the Bucs. Not Matty Ice on Tuesday watching film and looking at papers.
January 9th, 2015 at 1:36 pm
YOU GO! BRETT! LOL I AGREE.
January 9th, 2015 at 1:39 pm
@brett,
So when you use quotes, that means you are using someone else’s words verbatim. 1. I never said you said “Winston has no work ethic and no mental fortitude”. Talk about putting words in someone else’s mouth… 2. Your direct quote was “a QB with… VERY questionable mental fortitude”. So with that said, all my Comments in response remain the same.
Also, Mariota may very well show better judgement in day to day life than Winston. But it’s not such a vast difference that you overlook the talent. Look at Ray lewis, roethlisberger, Dez Bryant, aqib talib, etc. these guys had more red flags and have done way worse things in their personal lives. Have their transgressions brought down their respective NFL franchises? No. Instead, they lead their teams to victories and championships. Were not inducting these guys into the Shriner’s association. We trying to win games while running a successful profitable business. And I think you will be surprised how little trouble Winston will get into. He will be involved in the community, donate to charities, etc because he is a smart guy and he will have smart, invested people around him. This isn’t johnny Manziel. This is an overly exuberant kid who rubs moral stiffs who can’t think for themselves the wrong way.
January 9th, 2015 at 1:44 pm
@brett,
Whatever man. Get off the dissect/carve/study thing. It’s irreleevant to the discussion. You’re distracting from the purpose of the convo.
January 9th, 2015 at 1:49 pm
@Matt
For every Ray Lewis there are 10 Mike Williams. So please do not try to convince me with the “Ray Lewis” defense of Winston. I am sorry I improperly used quotations. I was trying to fictionally quote myself. Turns out that is not a real thing.
January 9th, 2015 at 1:53 pm
@Matt,
I just wanted to point out that you were using wishy-washy language to prove an invalid point. You should go into politics, with you being an “Alpha”, and your ability to bend language to make your opinion into fact. I am stating my opinion as my opinion(Mariota is better mentally adjusted and this will make him a better NFL QB) and using facts(Winston has gotten into trouble off the field) to prove my point.
January 9th, 2015 at 1:56 pm
@matt,
I think most of the concerns you have will be quelled once reports of nfl meetings, pro days, interviews, etc. start trickling out. Just a prediction.
January 9th, 2015 at 1:56 pm
It’s funny how, all of a sudden, without playing a single down of football since losing to Oregon, that all these so called “experts” see Winston as the better of the two, just because he was in a pro-style offence. Who cares? Mariota played the system that Oregon gave him, there is no way we’ll know if he’ll be a flop until he tries to adapt. Our offense starts from scratch this year, why not play a style suited to Mariota? Surely that’s much less a risk than a guy who may or may not lose his head again and do something idiotic, or even worse end up in prison for new evidence arising.
I’m desperate for either just like any other fan, but I’m not listening to former players on ESPN or NFL as they’re only talking to create TV ratings.
Winston plays angrier of Mariotas, but that doesn’t mean Mariota is less talented. Look at the Suh/McCoy example.
January 9th, 2015 at 1:56 pm
*@brett
January 9th, 2015 at 1:59 pm
Guys posting 40 times.
I acknowledged that Jameis could run successfully. What I said is don’t look for any long runs he’s not going to run away from anybody with those times especially since he had to work his tail off to get from 4.8 to 4.6.
If Mariota has posted a 4.4 .2 in a 40 is huge.
The only difference I’m pointing out is that Mariota is a candidate to take it to the house when he runs, Jameis is not as much of a threat.
Does anybody see Ben Roethlisberger breaking off long runs on a consistent basis? How about Russell Wilson? Wilson is at 4.5.
January 9th, 2015 at 1:59 pm
@matt,
I want to state that I think that Glennon has plenty of talent to play in the NFL and deserves a chance with a real OC, which we now have. I am not 100% sold on either of the QB’s and if I were GM I would do more research on these DLs out of Neb. and USC or find an offensive lineman.
January 9th, 2015 at 2:00 pm
@brett,
I wouldn’t consider myself an alpha. Somewhere between beta and Alpha, depending on the day I suppose. And I think lawyer would be more applicable. That’s the least dirty of the two.
January 9th, 2015 at 2:00 pm
BTW While I’m not a Jameis supporter what’s fair and accurate is fair and accurate. It hasn’t been just black QB’s that Joe has posted. Trent Dilfer was white the last time I checked.
January 9th, 2015 at 2:11 pm
I don’t think either of these 2 QB picks are worthy of the top overall pick. Trading the pick for more players makes the most sense to me. As far as Winston holding down a fairly high GPA, it’s common knowledge that football rules the roost and these dumber athletes are helped in school to protect their eligibility to play football. At all costs. When in Rome, do as the Roman’s did by lying, cheating and stealing.
January 9th, 2015 at 2:12 pm
@stpetebucsfan,
If you can find footage of Dilfers elite 11 camp when Winston was coming out of highschool, it’s a great look at how winston commanded respect of his peers and was the leader of the pack, not by his direct words, but just his aura. It’s interesting footage looking back. Was on ESPN2.
January 9th, 2015 at 2:41 pm
Re: 40 times.
I don’t expect or want my QB taking off on long runs. Who was it that said, you don’t see any old running QBs?
He has the strength, agility and speed to move in the pocket, not be taken down by hand tackles, and occasionally pick up first downs with his legs, like the others I listed.
I’d rather that, generally, the RB does the running, and the QB does the passing.
With Mariota already having the prior knee injury, I would think, even Mariota supporters want the same.
So, whether it’s 4.4, 4.5, 4.6, it makes little difference to me with a QB.
January 9th, 2015 at 4:11 pm
LWD
OK Point taken.
January 9th, 2015 at 6:56 pm
Mariota’s game may not translate to the NFL and Winston’s immaturity and behavior may not translate. Neither of these guys may be great or even serviceable NFL starting QBs. Maybe they will both have HOF careers. The bottom line is that no one knows regardless of knowledge or experience, if these guys are going to boom or bust. I just want the Bucs to win again damn it!!! Regardless of what the draft and offseason yields.
January 10th, 2015 at 8:13 am
Moon is bias and only wants black qbs playing in the NFL. His right to be like that but he lost all creditabilty. If the Bucs didn’t draft Winston first he would probably call Lovie a racist! Surprised you put moon on here Joe?? on second thought I’m not.
Dude, Warren Moon is a Hall of Famer still involved in the game. Why would Joe not share his take? Please. You’re not being very nice. –Joe
January 10th, 2015 at 10:26 am
@stpetebucsfan – yes you are correct but not to accurate.i did not even want it to sound like a racist because I am not my brother in law is African American. yes dilfer is white. while we have heard from mcnabb- king-moon-brooks-McCoy-Evens-etc- just saying! but I personally don’t care about race or how fast there 40 time is I think both QBs are good and both are gambles in certain ways. and both will have there growing pains. JUST SAYIN!
January 10th, 2015 at 10:46 pm
Dude!! Again I’m not surprised you put him on here. If you know your football you know Moon is the Al Sharpton of football. He is going to support every black QB in the league. Look it up!!! Again he isn’t credible to me, that’s all I’m saying!