Trading Down

January 30th, 2015
Eagles strongman Chip Kelly would have to trade away his team to get the No. 1 pick from the Bucs.

Eagles strongman Chip Kelly would have to trade away his team to get the No. 1 pick from the Bucs.

A segment of misguided Bucs fans really believes the Bucs should trade down in the draft. Really, it’s true.

For reasons Joe cannot grasp, the team is in position to rid itself of the ball and chain that has kept this franchise in the lower reaches for far too many years, and address its most important and glaring need.

Yet some fans, apparently wanting the Bucs to remain in the cellar of the NFC South, don’t want a quarterback.

Sorry folks, this is 2015. Woody Hayes is dead.

This same group is convinced the Bucs can swing a deal with the Eagles and, in return, get embattled quarterback Nick Foles.

As Joe has asked often, if Chip Kelly is so hellbent on getting rid of Foles, why on earth would the Bucs want him? But that is a discussion for another time.

It really is unrealistic to believe the Bucs can swing a trade to the Eagles, unless they want to out and out give away the top overall pick.

Pat Yasinskas of explains how difficult it would be, he believes to consummate a trade with the Eagles.

The No. 1 overall pick is worth 3,000 points. Philadelphia currently holds the No. 20 pick, which is worth 850 points. You can add up the value of all of Philadelphia’s picks in this draft and it still wouldn’t come close to 3,000.

The Eagles would have to make multiple moves to even get into an area where they could tempt the Bucs. Philadelphia probably would have to get at least one more first-round pick in this year’s draft and include next year’s first-round choice. Veteran players also could be part of the deal, but they usually don’t carry a lot of weight in these situations.

The Bucs would be wise to listen to any and all offers because they could get a huge bounty for the top pick. But, no matter how much Kelly wants Mariota, he might not have the resources to make it happen.

Joe is getting mixed signals from two Eagles insiders about this fallacy of an Eagles-Bucs trade. One well respected guy who covers the team believes Kelly wants to make a trade but doesn’t have the ammunition. A guy who works for the Eagles told Joe earlier this week in Phoenix, among other words, “It’s bulls(p)it. It’s bulls(p)it. It’s bulls(p)it. It really is. It just is. They can’t. It’s bulls(p)it.”

Joe simply doesn’t think such a trade is realistic. Therefore, it’s like a dog in the backyard howling at the moon.

112 Responses to “Trading Down”

  1. Lev Says:

    If you want to trade down than that means you have no balls.

  2. Couch Fan Says:

    I believe the eagles are trying to trade up for Mariota but not to #1. Not even close. They will probably wait to see if he falls out of the top 5. Probably even top 10 before they make a move.

  3. Robert 9 Says:

    no balls misguided fan here. also a MGM founding member.

    trade the pick, but not all the way back to #20. If they can drop back a few spots and get some great picks in return then do the deal.

    Start the cannon, the matty ice clone, then gett Matt Moore or Brian Hoyer to back him up. We then have more picks this year and extras for next year. Build the trenches and the rush.

  4. Tampabaybucfan Says:

    We will be selecting a QB in this draft….I think it will be Mariota….but if not….still OK….we must pull the trigger now.

    There are only two trade down’s that make any sense…..

    Tenn….then we would still get one of the two QBs
    Jets…..if they want a QB…..

    Oak, Jax, Wash….probably won’t take QB but they could trade their spot.
    Perhaps we would still have a shot at a QB with # 6 but too much of a gamble.

  5. Jeagan1999 Says:

    “A segment of misguided Bucs fans really believe the Bucs should trade down in the draft.” Gee, Joe…a certain segment of misguided Bucs fans wanted us to draft Johnny Partyboy in the first round last year, too! Another “misguided” segment thought adding Josh McCown and starting him over Mile Glennon was the way to go! Get off your high horse, Joe! It’s all a crapshoot! Whether we go Mariota, Winston, some other player, or trade down….it’s all a gamble in the end. But I’ll tell you one thing…if some desperate team is willing to part with 5 or 6 high draft choices over the next 2-3 years, and the coaches don’t feel strongly about any of the QBs in this years draft, then why not take the extra draft picks and rebuild this team from the inside out! You can always use some of those picks on a QB next year or two if one comes along you really like! I’m not advocating the Bucs do it that way, I’m just saying that not considering it would be stupid! About as stupid as saying that some fans are “misguided” for thinking about it!

  6. Robert 9 Says:

    lol. we could probably get winston in the 2nd and everyone would be jumping for joy. When the hunting ground airs his stock is gonna drop like lindsay lohan on a binge.

  7. Robert 9 Says:

    mariota is a reach and winston is ……..well, you know that story. neither warrant the pick, and if someone is stupid enough to do it, pull the trigger man.

    ask yourself what would bilicheat do?

  8. bucfan999 Says:

    A trade down would not be such a bad thing. The Buc’s have a lot of holes to fill on offense and defense that extra draft picks could alleviate.

    A rookie QB is a crapshoot at best, for every 1st round rookie that becomes a franchise QB (Luck, Peyton, Rodgers, etc.) you have an equal or greater amount that become big time busts (Gabbert, JaMarcus Russell, Todd Marinovich, Andre Ware, Akili Smith, Joey Harrington, etc.). I don’t know anymore than Joe or anyone else knows whether Winston or Mariota will be a bust or a star in the NFL. I do know Winston scares the hell out of me with his off the field shenanigans and the amount of INT’s he threw against college competition.

    A trade with Philadelphia would have to start with what the Redskins gave up for RGIII and then add some more to compensate for going down to #20 in the draft. I would think it would have to look something like this…..1st round picks in 2016 & 2017, 2nd round picks in 2015, 2016 & 2017, 3rd round picks in 2015, 2016 & 2017 along with players. I would think a good package would be……..1) QB Nick Foles = A former MVP of the Pro Bowl, 2) RT Lane Johnson and either Connor Barwin a pass rushing DE or Mychal Kendricks a MLB. I would also try to get the Eagles to take Anthony Collins and Dashon Goldson. To me this isn’t a bad haul, similar to what the Cowboys did when they traded Herschel Walker to the Vikings and would help us to fill the holes we have quicker than if we took either Jameis Winston or Marcus Mariota this year. Just my opinion.

  9. gatrbuc17 Says:

    Gonna change my screen name to “gatr-trade down twice-buc17

  10. passthebuc Says:

    Your premises is only valid if you think one of the 2 QB’s in question is worthy of a first round pick.

    I however do not.

  11. Guided Bucs fan Says:

    If Winston is there with the second pick of the second round I say draft him. But him is not first overall caliber. Winston could be a ball and chain for the next five years, use the first on a defensive end.

  12. passthebuc Says:

    Buckfan has the right idea

  13. Thunder Sack Says:

    It’s not misguided to have a different idea as to how to re-build this franchise into a winner.

    The two QBs available at the top of the draft have way more questions than answers. Might as well invest the pick in more players. Statistically you have more of a chance of hitting a home run in one of the many holes on this team.

    Logically that makes the most sense.

  14. Stpetebucsfan Says:

    For reasons Joe cannot grasp, the team is in position to rid itself of the ball and chain that has kept this franchise in the lower reaches for far too many years, and address its most important and glaring need.

    Yet some fans, apparently wanting the Bucs to remain in the cellar of the NFC South, don’t want a quarterback.

    That is some of the most specious thinking and illogical talk that I’ve read.

    First! NEITHER of these QB’s is a slam dunk! The odds are 50-50 that one or both will be a bust. And of the 50% success group some of those are not world beaters but simply competent QB’s. There is plenty of STATISTICAL evidence that MG8 is already at least an average QB.

    AGAIN- Need does not = a solution. For your post to have even a scintilla of credibility or make sense, it requires one to accept that Jameis is a can’t miss prospect. That’s simply literally untrue. He may be the next coming of Ben Roethlisberger, he may be the next Ryan Leaf! Your post ASSUMES an opinion as fact! There is simply no factual statement in your post.

    You then feel the need to include the ad hom, mixed with a great straw man argument. There are PLENTY of posters here who are simply not sold on the talent of either of these two, or in one case the horrid PR and risk of off field shenanigans that has followed him throughout his young career, who desperately want a QB. They simply see other ways of acquiring one. And some believe we already have one.

    Quite frankly based on simple statistical evidence the MGM makes more sense than you. Look at Glennon’s stats straight up as tickdr has and there is simply NO real reason other than looks and glamour to NOT give this kid at least a shot under an OC like Koetter who will get the most out of him. We are nowhere near a Super Bowl contender for next year. A realistic goal IMHO is the playoffs and one and done. Then let’s see what we think about Glennon.

    There are plenty here who believe Hackenberg is a far better prospect than either of these two. There are other QB’s besides Famous Jameis and so not choosing him is not the same as NOT WANTING A FRANCHISE QB!!!

    I respect the OPINION of those who want Jameis. But clearly those who view another solution to our problem have just as much if not more credibility of those who assume a 50-50 risk is the same as a done deal.

    Frankly the key phrase in the post is for reasons YOU cannot grasp. Personally I can grasp ALL the reasons that you and everybody have offered for taking Winston. I can also grasp the view of those who want Mariota. And I can equally grasp and in fact have joined the view of those who believe neither of these two are worth the top pick in the draft.

    Your obsession would quite frankly make a little more sense if we had a team similar to the one Brad Johnson joined. We were truly a QB away from the SB.

    If anybody here thinks we are a QB away from the SB I’ve got some stock in the Sunshine Skyway bridge I can sell you at a cheap price.

    AGAIN…need does not equal solution and simply grasping for desperation sake generally produces bad outcomes.

    I understand your desire for a “franchise QB.”. What I do not understand is your lack of grasping that there is more than one way to find one.

  15. thegregwitul Says:

    As long as the Bucs draft either Mariota or Winston, I’ll be a happy camper. If they can do that and somehow trade down for more picks, that’ll be a nice bonus, but I fully expect the Bucs to sit tight at number one and take advantage of the opportunity to select a possible franchise QB to re-energize the team.

  16. Tampabaybucfan Says:

    What about all the teams that must be craving the choice of 100% of NFL scouts & Joe…..Winston

    All of these teams need QBs and pick before Eagles

    Titans, Jets, Bears, Rams, Bills, Titans

    Surely there are trade possibilties with them!!!

  17. gatrbuc17 Says:

    @Joe……………Why is it so hard to fathom from a person of obviously reasonable intelligence such as yourselves, that some of us Simply dont believe completely in Either QB? I live in Montana in West Yellowstone. This tiny town sees over 2 million visitors a year. I am the Only Bucs fan in town. i speak to hundreds of football fans week from all over the country. I can tell you right now that Tampa fans are the ONLY ones going goo goo ga ga over these two QBs. Some for Mariota because of the area but I can honestly tell you that Not One of the people I have spoken with who are not Bucs fans have said we should take Winston.
    I don’t think Winston is worth the risk for a no.1 pick
    I don’t think Mariota is ready to play right off the shelf and that is what a no.1 pick is supposed to do.
    That is my opinion

  18. JBuc Says:

    The funniest thing coming from “Joe” is…”if Chip Kelly is so hellbent on getting rid of Foles, why on earth would the Bucs want him?” Yet you never hear “Joe” saying…if Chip Kelly is so hellbent on getting Mariota, why on earth wouldn’t the Bucs take him? These articles are gold.

  19. DB55 Says:

    I see an Eli manning trade happening…call me crazy. Eagles get down to 4 and trade for mm.

  20. Brandon Says:

    He can have his crack at Mariota in three or four years after his drafting team has decided he can’t transition to the pro game…and it’ll cost him nothing.

  21. Stpetebucsfan Says:


    You bring up a valid point. We have been obsessing on the kind of deal the Eagles would bring to the table to go directly from 20th to first. That’s far from the only option and as you have pointed out the only team with QB needs.

    You have listed a half dozen teams like St. Louis and Arizona who could also be players. Other teams may not need a QB but may be in a mix to simply up their position in the first round. IE A deal could involve three or more teams all swapping picks and or players in that mix.

    When I think of trading down my mind doesn’t necessarily go to the Eagles. If we could get another first round pick AND remain high enough to get Andrus Peat or Scherff I’d pull the trigger in a heartbeat.

  22. thegregwitul Says:

    And for the MG army, look, I’m fine with Glennon staying on the team if he can’t be dealt to a QB needy team like Buffalo for a 3rd round pick (a 2nd would be nice but it’s unrealistic). Keep Glennon and bring in the rookie and let a real deal OC and QB coach work with both guys and this way McCown can be either retire or be released.

    This team needs a franchise QB. You do not go 2-14 and pass that opportunity up. Aside from a once in generation prospect like Luck, all of these QBs are essentially risky picks. Even so, you can’t pass it up.

  23. Stpetebucsfan Says:

    JBuc FTW!!!!

    ”if Chip Kelly is so hellbent on getting rid of Foles, why on earth would the Bucs want him?” Yet you never hear “Joe” saying…if Chip Kelly is so hellbent on getting Mariota, why on earth wouldn’t the Bucs take him?”

  24. Ray Rice Says:

    FUK balls. The YUCS need winners! Period!

  25. ColoradoBuc Says:

    “A segment of misguided Bucs fans really believes the Bucs should” NOT “trade down in the draft. Really, it’s true.”
    Face it, the Bucs are in a precarious position: They NEED a franchise quarterback, but neither of these two are sure bets to fit that requirement. They NEED a lot of draft picks and trading down will help add to the core of the team already built, but they might not find a willing partner. They NEED the best player available, too!
    The draft is a crap shoot. Having the #1 pick is only a great deal if there is a player that you just can’t do without. Everything else is just hoping for the best.

  26. gatrbuc17 Says:

    For reasons Joe cannot grasp, the team is in position to rid itself of the ball and chain that has kept this franchise in the lower reaches for far too many years, and address its most important and glaring need.”
    I heard this last year about Johnny Footballl

  27. biff barker Says:

    Brandon Says:

    He can have his crack at Mariota in three or four years after his drafting team has decided he can’t transition to the pro game…and it’ll cost him nothing.
    Your head is so far up Winston’s chute that you really can’t have a clue at this point how Mariotta will do.

  28. biff barker Says:

    DB55 Says:

    January 30th, 2015 at 12:04 pm

    I see an Eli manning trade happening…call me crazy. Eagles get down to 4 and trade for mm.
    OK, you’re crazy!

  29. BirdDoggers Says:

    Trading down isn’t far fetched if Licht stays true to his philosophy of getting value. If Licht and Lovie have another player sitting at #1 on their draft board besides one of the QBs, maybe they trade down. According to Licht, the draft board was set a few weeks ago. If one of the QBs is sitting at the top, they’ll take him.

    If they trade the pick, it won’t be to Philly. Philly would have to trade their next two drafts. That would be some serious pressure on Kelly’s shoulders. I don’t see it happening.

  30. Couch Fan Says:

    Joe really knows how to press most of your buttons. Lol. Trading down is fine with me to but not out of the top 10 please.

  31. bucsfan4lyf Says:

    Sorry Joe, Mariota is coming to Tampa. Once he has his pro day and shows everyone he can make any throw, drop back under center, and show he’s a leader and a good citizen (straight jab at Winston), Tampa will make the obvious smart choice and get Mariota.

    Our running game automatically gets better, defense gets more rest, and passing game becomes much easier. Just look at Seattle


  32. biff barker Says:

    BirdDoggers Says:

    If they trade the pick, it won’t be to Philly. Philly would have to trade their next two drafts. That would be some serious pressure on Kelly’s shoulders. I don’t see it happening.
    Agree. a trade down is entirely possible.

    The only thing certain this time of year is what people are saying isn’t what they are thinking.

  33. Robert 9 Says:

    if licht shows his skills like he did in the tim wright trade he’ll trade the pick for a jelly donut and hash browns. FML

  34. ToesOnTheLine! Says:

    @ bucfan999

    Sadly I truly believe the Bucs wouldn’t even get as good a deal as was offered to the Rams by Washington. After seeing the huge debacle the RGIII trade caused I just can’t see any GM that enjoys employment mortgaging their team’s future like that for one rookie.

    @ Stpetebucsfan

    You tell ’em bro! Props go out for the Hackenberg plug too…the closest slam dunk QB prospect since Andrew Luck and on my Bucs wish list like Manziel was to Joe and Winston is to FSU fans. 🙂

  35. voice of reason Says:

    that chart is from the 90s and makes no sense anymore.
    trading down is more ballsy than staying put.

  36. Robert 9 Says:

    true couch, definitely not out of the top 10, preferrably not even past number 6 or 7. we need elite talent.

  37. Architek Says:

    Your crazy if you would go 2-14 to trade down and have the same quarterbacks leading this offense.

    Enjoy the pointless discussion!

  38. Robert 9 Says:

    lol… would not be the same QB. glennon sat the bench most of the season to keep him from getting killed. lovie knew he had more than a year and left aroyo and mcclown to stock the cupboard come draft day.

  39. Mr. Patrick Says:

    Chip Kelly is the most unconventional and unpredictable coach in the NFL and he could do just about anything, not to mention that he is now in charge of all Eagle’s personnel decisions and transactions.
    With that being said, I think the wild card in this deal would be the Rams at #10 who have stated that they have an interest in Foles. Eagles could deal with Rams to get to 10, then deal with Bucs who would probably listen to all offers because there really isn’t a great pick in this draft to be had at #1. Bucs picked a bad year to be at #1
    Also, I can detect a tone of frustration and disgust in Joe’s post, probably because now that he’s out there with real NFL people he’s hearing all about how all of the folks wouldn’t touch his boy Winston with a 10 foot pole. Poor Joe

  40. Bobby M. Says:

    Meanwhile…a 3rd round and short QB faces a 6th round, skinny QB in the SuperBowl….both attempting win ANOTHER ring….Can’t imagine why we would trade down.

  41. MadMax Says:

    Now look, we have missed on and wasted enough 1st round decisions lately! We need a Mike Evans/GMC kind of slam dunk homer of a pick. Thats Leonard Williams or receiving enough compensation to trade down a little and go with Peat, Cooper, or Scherff. Thats my opinion and Im sticking to it!

  42. ToesOnTheLine! Says:

    Well if you can believe current Bucs HC Lovie Smith then a ferocious defense and good special teams will win 10 games. Therefore if Lovie can (1) be trusted to not be totally delusional and (2) given autonomy to make the pick HE wants then the obvious pick at #1 is Leonard Williams or trade down and grab pass rushing BPA. Personally I like Glennon and am “meh” on Lovie, so this scenario fits my agenda well…Glennon does well, team wins 10 or more games…I’m on the Lovie bandwagon and Lovin life as a Bucs fan…team implodes again/Glennon choked (doubtful) and we get an offensive minded HC and look for a QB in the draft (yup you know who…cough…Penn St.)

  43. 87ForJameisNoMariota Says:

    I have but 3 choice words for the Glazers boys.

    Better Not Happen.

  44. Luther Says:

    While I’m on record to want Winston. I might not be happy with Mariota but you have to take a QB. Trading down or picking another position is just not the right thing to do. I can’t imagine Lovie and Lict would do such a thing.

  45. BrianDorry55 Says:

    Someone called Mike Glennon the “Matty Ice Clone”…..right…that’s why he was a third round pick.

  46. Mr. Patrick Says:

    @ Bobby and MadMax
    You guys are thinking straight

    I’m sure you have the Glazers shaking in their boots, lol

  47. Mr. Patrick Says:

    The Bucs did not tank the last game to win the “Race for Jameis”, they wanted Control the draft. They now have their choice of any player in the draft, can trade out of the #1 spot, or draft a player then turn right around and trade him. What every one of the other teams do depends on what the Bucs do at #1

  48. OB Says:

    We never have kept a franchised QB so that is the main reason our record is so bad.

    Who the Bucs pick with this one will do two things, hopefully give them a franchised QB and prove the GM and Coaches can choose one. If the QB is a bust, they all should go.

  49. Tampabaybucfan Says:

    I actually think the “trade down” crew has one thing in common….and that’s Mike Glennon.
    Anyone who thinks Glennon hasn’t been given an adequate chance and has francise potential….would, of course be in favor of a trade down.

    I think Glennon hasn’t been given an adequate chance and I believe he could be very good for the right team…..but I think Lovie & Licht gave up on him long ago….so…..draft us a new QB please….

  50. Mark Says:

    Trade downs are universally applauded on draft day, so a certain group of fans always wants to trade down. It’s like choosing the mystery box on Let’s Make a Deal. But it’s not always an option, and unless you have a QB, none of it matters much at all. The Rams and Skins made a huge swap for RG3 which the Rams “won.” How many playoff games have the Rams played since that trade? How are they at qb? If either qb is even remotely the answer, we have to draft him.

  51. Connor Says:

    Hey Joe, every Bucs fan DOES want a quarterback. But realize, if we take a quarterback in THIS draft, it better be the right damn one. We already missed on Freeman and if we miss on this one, we’ll for sure waste another 3-4 years automatically. Just because we select QB doesn’t mean he’s immediately the savior. I want a franchise QB, but I’m not that desperate to where I don’t care how good of a prospect he is.

  52. Bucfish Says:

    @ Joe,

    You say, “As Joe has asked often, if Chip Kelly is so hellbent on getting rid of Foles, why on earth would the Bucs want him?”

    Really? Kelly needs a mobile QB for his offense to fire on all cylinders. Foles is not mobile. MM is not only mobile, but knows the offense better than any other QB right now. So Kelly wanting to replace Foles with MM is not because he’s unloading a bad QB, but because he’s getting one that better fits his system. It’s simple!

    I’m currently on the JW bandwagon, but my #2 choice would be to trade down and acquire a boat load of picks. Foles is a viable option at QB IMO. He’s better than what we currently have, and he’s less of a risk than either JW or MM.

    However, I want to be clear that my main wish is to roll the dice with JW. He’s a winner, but he better stay out of trouble. I know this: one day JW will be holding his hands high. Hopefully, it is with a Lombardi trophy and not with cops pointing guns at him…

  53. Senor Mofo Says:

    The draft is still three months away. It’s possible that the Bucs’ brass could discover some skeletons in Mariota’s closet, or uncover some previously undisclosed injury issue. Or, their evaluation could lead them to believe that Mariota’s college production was all a house of cards, and that he really can’t do all of the things an NFL QB has to do.

    But I think that’s what it take at this point. The Bucs would have to be scared away from drafting Mariota.

    Mariota is almost universally likeable. You have to really dig deep and rationalize to find reasons to not like Marcus Mariota. He’s solid as a rock. He will not be a bust in the NFL. He might not fully realize his potential greatness, but he won’t be a bust. Within two weeks of drafting Marcus Mariota, the Buccaneers will lead the NFL in jersey sales (not that that’s any barometer of future success).

    winston is a polarizing figure. He’s volatile, and he’s all over the map both on and off the field. His NFL career could be a complete roller coaster. But, he’s still better than any QB we’ve been in a position to draft in the last 39 years.

    If Marcus Mariota wasn’t in this draft, I’d be the conductor of the Jameis Winston bandwagon. But Mariota is in this draft, and given the information we have available right now, I just can’t construct a scenario where the Buccaneers would use their number one overall pick on anyone other than Marcus Mariota. They are not trading down.

  54. bucsfan4lyf Says:

    Personally, I would only trade down and trust Glennon if we get a ridiculous amount of draft picks, but I don’t see that happening and as much as Williams is the “safe pick” YOU CANNOT GO INTO NEXT SEASON WITHOUT A NEW QB!!!!

    Mariota is everything Tampa needs. He’s a leader, athletic, smart, can make any throw (Pro day will show EVERYONE), and is someone kids can look up to and be the face of the Franchise.

    Please L&L, don’t *uck this draft up and get Winston, we need someone we can count on and will be here for the long run


  55. Jeagan1999 Says:

    Tampabaybucfan….I am in favor of giving Glennon a chance to compete. But it goes even deeper than that! Anyone who thinks that the Bucs are “just a QB away” from winning a division is fooling him/herself. A bounty of high draft choices could help us rebuild the team quickly! Obviously, adding a bunch of high priced FA’s didn’t do the trick. We need to completely rebuild the offensive line. We need a another WR to replace VJax when his contract is up. We need outside pass rushers on both sides of the D-line. We need help at MLB, Nickle CB, and Safety. And we need quality depth all around. And yes, we need a good QB! I’m not saying the Bucs should trade down…especially if they really like Mariota or Winston….but I am saying that this team is in rebuilding mode and we are not simply one or two players away from the playoffs!

  56. BucFan20 Says:

    Someone was misguided last year and knew his boy was going to be a Buc.So yes, the trade down is possible!

  57. Justin Says:

    LOL Joe has the audacity to criticize the draft belief of some people on the boards, when last year he was the front man to land Johnny Football. Not once have you owned up to it and said you were wrong, and those pushing for Mike Evans (myself included) were right.

  58. Jim Says:

    If you owned a struggling business and had the first pick of all of the most talented business students coming out of every Ivy League school, would you leave that decision to your manager?

  59. FortMyersDave Says:

    DB55 Says:

    “I see an Eli manning trade happening…call me crazy. Eagles get down to 4 and trade for mm.”

    I don’t see it man: the Eagles would have to give up all the draft picks the Bucs would want in order to move up to the Raiders spot at 4 as you proposed so what does that leave them to offer the Bucs? I could see the Bucs trading down to the qb needy Skins or Jets (5/6th picks overall) if they felt that neither Mariota or Winston was the franchise caliber qb they need and then go after a OT or stud on the DL and get some more picks in exchange ala the RG3 deal but otherwise I think the Bucs stand pat at #1….

  60. pete Says:

    The Bucs need a new Oline and a DE and a MLB and a Safety(s) and a CB as well as a QB.
    Coach Smith’s administration has proven inept at free agency personnel selection.
    Trade Down, trust the scouts, and get some NFL caliber players.
    If the Eagles added Lane Johnson to their picks the trade with the Eagles might make sense.

  61. Tony Says:

    Please… just stop.
    Yes – I’m talking to the “let’s trade down” contingent.

    What I don’t think people are realizing is just how special the top 2 QB’s in this draft are. While they may not have the slam-dunk pedigree that Luck had coming out – they are in that tier just below him when you look back over the last 5-8 years. While this may not be a “once-in-a-generation” type QB draft (because, technically, that should only be possible once every generation, right?) – we arelooking at two of the better prospects the Bucs could possibly hope to land.

    This isn’t about avoiding a Blake Bortles or even worse… a Blaine Gabbert or Jamarcus Russell – these are two high profile, Heisman winning, national championship playing, excelling in the spotlight players who are battle-tested.

    The #1 glaring hole the Bucs have had for the better part of 40 years has a solution right in front of it.

  62. bucfan999 Says:


    I fully agree with you that I don’t think the Eagles will give up that much for Mariota. To me that is a starting point for discussion and to make a move the deal would have to be more that the Rams got from the Redskins to make a move from #1 to #20. I think BUC NATION would expect a major haul.

  63. JoeJoes Fungi Nails Says:

    I believe the Bucs should trade down TWICE in the first round before getting to work rebuilding the team

  64. DB55 Says:

    Bucfish said:

    one day JW will be holding his hands high. Hopefully, it is with a Lombardi trophy and not with cops pointing guns at him…
    HA! Winner winner crab leg dinner.

  65. Donovan Says:

    You guys are hilarious You are gonna LOVE jameis when he’s a Buc. Just sit back and enjoy the ride.

  66. JFF Says:

    5 is the magic number for an Eagles trade. No way the Jets let a QB slip past 6.

  67. Greg Schiano Says:

    Bryce Petty is the logical choice!! Trade down…get value picks because until Team Glazer fires Lovie the Loser, this team is going no where. Lovie can’t coach on Friday Night Tykes, let alone in the NFL. He sucks at evaluating talent (six ex-Bucs in the Super Bowl), he can’t coach defense, he has no idea how to coach offense, and other that Radio Raheem Morris, he is the most pathetic game clock manager on the planet!

    The Bronco’s fired John Fox….and Team Glazer kept Lovie after a 2-14 season? I don’t get it!

    Fire Lovie today!!

  68. Stpetebucsfan Says:


    Bucs picked a bad year to be at #1 That’s called Bucluck! 🙂

    If the Bucs draft Andrus Peat, my fave..he probably blows out his knee in training camp…ditto for Williams…Mariota blows out a shoulder, Jameis gets caught gets something else blown out and is on TMZ and viral videos..

    We have a curse worse than the freaking Heisman. Hell that jinx cost poor Gaines Adams his life.

    If I was a college player I’d fear getting drafted by the Bucs! 🙂

    This is why I respect ALL the posters on this board…at least if you’re Buc fans.

    Any wuss can be a freaking Patriots or Packer fan…being a Bucs fan takes some real SISU…that’s a Finnish word I learned from my in-laws. It doesn’t translate perfectly into English but it certainly describes what one must have to be a Bucs fan. I luvs y’all.

    Sisu Begins Where Perseverance Ends

    Adversities are an integral part of human experience, but what is it that enables us to endure the toughest of situations and take action against nearly impossible odds? What keeps us going, when we feel we have reached the end of our abilities?

  69. Luther Says:

    Anyone that wants Bryce Petty has not watched him play. The guy sucked dog poo during Senior Bowl week. There was more depth at the QB position last year but this year there are only 2.

  70. lurker Says:

    the bucs didn’t tank for “control” of the draft…bullspit. they coulda stayed at 2 and gotten a great player and not sold his integrity that some people think he has. they tanked for #1 for a specific player that they wanted. that is not a d-lineman.

  71. Stpetebucsfan Says:

    Just curious about the “tanking” charges. Not that I’m naive or a pollyanna but I need some perspective from you guys.

    Was there any chance that if we had won that last game and all other cards had fallen poorly for us that we could have dropped to 4th? Wasn’t there actually more on the line than just the #1 pick or had it been totally narrowed down to either us or Tennessee.

    Just askin’. I’m not really sure I remember.

  72. bucs4lyfe Says:

    wow I thought the mgm had finally come to their senses but apparently not…..if lovie is such a bad evaluator of talent how did realize so quickly that glennon is a barely good enough to be considered a backup? stop talking about a backup quarterback who is backing up a career backup quarterback it makes no sense

  73. ddneast Says:

    The Chargers didn’t like Drew Bree’s either. idiots.
    A bunch of teams didn’t see any value in Aaron Rogers. Buffoons.
    Did someone die and make Chip Kelly the second coming of Rute Knockne.
    Kelly covets Mariota like I used to covet my ex next door neighbors wife.
    When you covet something, reasoning goes out the door.

  74. lurker Says:

    @spbf, you decide

    interesting article from thebiglead usatoday sports on the tanking.


    From Pat Yasinkas:
    Coach Lovie Smith and multiple players took offense to suggestions the Bucs might have tanked to make sure they secured the No. 1 pick. But the Bucs did squander a 13-point lead during a fourth quarter in which they were playing a lot of backups, so that’s going to lead to questions.

    From Rick Stroud @NFLSTROUD (tweet)
    #Bucs WR Mike Evans on why he was pulled: “The whole second half I didn’t play. They just pulled me because I was gassed.” Next game Aug.

    From Greg Auman @gregauman (tweet)
    Backup offensive linemen Kevin Pamphile, Garrett Gilkey and Josh Allen combined for 96 snaps for Bucs in Sunday’s loss to Saints.

    Lovie Smith also offered this:
    “It had nothing to do with substitutions,” Smith said. “You look at how we played. To me, I’m going to go back, we’re moving the ball fairly well even in the second half. They played a lot better. We played a lot of guys the first half also. Vincent Jackson only played a few reps. That happened in the first half also, and the team we put on the football field had a chance to win right up until (the end).

    “Yeah, we didn’t have some of our best players there right in the end. But the guys we had in there we felt like we could move the ball and be able to win.”

  75. LUVMYBUCS Says:


    Once again brotha–Great Post!

  76. Roscoe the Pirate Says:

    Trade the pick for Revis and let him play QB

  77. LUVMYBUCS Says:

    Trade Down (Alternative)

    The value in the draft is in the 2nd in 3rd (Historically). Even more so when you consider all of the underclassmen that have declared. Many of whom, where projected to be top prospect at their prospective positions- in the 2016/2017 Draft.

    So why not grab more premium picks?

    Et cetera:

    When yawl can checkout the– Football Perspective, Harvard Sports Collective and Datascope Analytics (great stuff)

    Yawl might find this to be an interesting read as well-(Trade Value Chart)

  78. bigblock690 Says:

    If the Bucs were to make a trade it would have 2 B large. Eagles 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th round picks. Fletcher Cox(DE) Nate Allen(S) Jordan Matthews(WR) Next years 1st 2nd and 3rd round picks

  79. lurker Says:

    so do you believe in the trade value chart or the analytics?

  80. Brent Says:

    Just take Winston already. Foles is a Glennon like qb. Already got that. If we get a stud qb were in good shape.

  81. ddneast Says:

    Your right Brent, Foles is another Glennon with quicker feet, a better arm, more pocket prescience and better escape ability. Have you ever even seen him play.

  82. No qb in 1st Says:

    Anyone who believes Winston or mariota are better than glennon right now are obviously “the drink is half full” kinda fans.sure the ceiling may be higher with those prospects but this is a win now league and neither would be better than glennon draft the stud DE if we can’t trade the pick. Everyone is forgetting that glennon never had a good coach or OC since he’s been here. Nor the fact it’s been new coaching and systems every year he’s been here.everyone forgets what he did his first year.the kid has the talent to be a good qb or should I say game manager which is what most have. Winston will be in jail or at mons Venus Mariota could be special if given time. Please understand glennon is our best hope for this upcoming season. Personally i would take Brett hundley or mannion later in the draft.if we keep the 1st pick we need a sure thing an instant impact player not a gamble on one that’s immature or one that’s just not ready…..yet
    Makes sense to me how about you?

  83. lurker Says:

    the fact you think glennon is good is “glass half full”. you say it is a “win now league”, but glennon doesn’t win. you say “the ceiling might be higher” with mariotta or winston, but that glennon has the talent to be a game manager.

    i don’t want a game manager. i want the better qb; either is better than glennon. take the higher ceiling and better talent at qb. williams is a risk, also.

    glennon has had his chances and couldn’t get it done.

  84. ufcguy Says:

    So how did drafting clowney workout and mario Williams ? You need a qb. You take tge qb now. You csn get defense anytime and oline. The qb is the missing piece

  85. LUVMYBUCS Says:

    Mock Trade (Fair Exchange)

    (Player Compensation)
    Philadelphia to Tampa Bay: Nick Foles
    Philadelphia to Tampa Bay: Zach Ertz
    Philadelphia to Tampa Bay: Lane Johnson
    Philadelphia to Tampa Bay: Vinny Curry

    (Draft Pick Compensation)

    Philadelphia to Tampa Bay: 1st Rnd (#20)
    Philadelphia to Tampa Bay: 2nd Rnd (#5)
    Philadelphia to Tampa Bay: 3rd Rnd (#84)
    Philadelphia to Tampa Bay: 4th Rnd (#115)

    Philadelphia to Tampa Bay: 1st Rnd
    Philadelphia to Tampa Bay: 3rd Rnd

  86. LUVMYBUCS Says:

    + Anthony Collins or Dashon Goldson

  87. lurker Says:

    i was going to say the eagle wouldn’t give up the farm…
    but then i remember ditka with the saints giving up his whole draft for ricky williams. lol

  88. No qb in 1st Says:

    Guess you guys are right let glennon go to New Orleans to be brees relief so he can light us up for many years to come and draft Winston like you all want and within 1 year will be suspended or out of the league or at best another ej Manuel. If glennon is so bad trade the pick for more picks and start glennon which if he’s as bad as you think we’ll get a top 5 pick next year when some real 1st round qbs come out….win win
    How soon you all forget glennon set rookie records for us and just never developed him……guess that’s his fault also
    I truly believe there is a reason both Belichic and Sean Payton were going to draft him after us. But you probably think they are poor judges of talent.
    Ide be willing to compromise if we draft mariota and use glennon as a bridge until he’s ready in a few years.please don’t forget our D will be great again and glennon is certainly on par with brad Johnson or dilfer

  89. lurker Says:

    glennon is not even close to brad johnson. johnson was mobile, accurate on deep passes, and the yards aren’t even close. you guys are crazy thinking johnson was mediocre as glennon is.

  90. lurker Says:

    guarantee you more teams want winston than glennon as a starting qb, including the bucs.

  91. BucTrooper Says:

    Any “trade down” scenario needs to start with THREE first rounders.

    That means the Bucs are picking twice in the first round in 2015, 2016, and 2017.

  92. FortMyersDave Says:

    Stpetebucsfan Says:

    “Was there any chance that if we had won that last game and all other cards had fallen poorly for us that we could have dropped to 4th? Wasn’t there actually more on the line than just the #1 pick or had it been totally narrowed down to either us or Tennessee.”

    SPBF: by the time week 17 rolled around the Bucs were locked into the 1st or 2nd overall pick in the draft as the Jags and Raiders both won their 3rd games by then and had SOS far better than either the Bucs or the Titans. The SOS of Tampa and TN was closer but it was still set in stone that if both teams finished with the same record the Bucs would get the #1 overall though the Titans had the edge in SOS after week 16 but played Indy while the Bucs played the Saints in week 17 and the difference in the Indy and NO record was enough to flip the order one last time. So hypotheitclly if Indy played earlier than Tampa and somehow beat Indy (say if the Colts did not want to wash the ugly taste of being beat decisively by Dallas the week before and instead rested the starters) then I suspect the Bucs might have played the 2nd half of the NO game @ RJS a bit “differently” though that would affect the draft order in the later rounds as in a 4 team tie at 3-13 the Titans and Bucs would be joined by Oakland and the Jacksonville Bortles in the revolving flips of who picked 1st each round, as it is now the Bucs original draft picks are 1st in the odd # rounds and 2nd in the even; the Titans have the reverse…..

    NE has our Bucs 4th rounder, think about that; Wright and basically the first pick of day 4 for a washed up Mankins and you KNOW that some stud player will slip out of day 2 and rounds 3 right into their hands and everyone @ESPN and NFL Network will praise New England for a shrewd day 3 pick up and might even show a graphic of how the Pats managed to get the 1st overall pick of day 3 to show the nation how the Chowds fleeced the Bucs yet again. Hopefully the Bucs use the Lambs 4th rounder (10th in the round) to get whoever they would have targeted with the 1st pick of the round….

  93. FortMyersDave Says:

    Actually the Titans pick first on day 3 and the Pats got the 2nd pick in round 4 but the Bucs still got bent over on the Mankins deal…..

  94. No qb in 1st Says:

    Just feels like many fans on this site are saying either Winston or mariota. I believe you are being sucked in by the hype. Yes we need a franchise qb…but are either of them the real deal or are we that desperate that since their the top 2 in this years draft.just can’t believe Winston is worth the pick with his red flags and mariotas lack of running pro style offense…..but I think given time he could be something special.just can’t believe either one is better than glennon for us under center this year. 2 yrs in pros vs no exp. I’ll take the experience. Just don’t feel we should have to settle if we aren’t sold on either qb just because we have the 1st pick. Trade the pick if possible….except the fact we are rebuilding and lets bolster our team with players and become relevant again. I will support their moves regardless but just hope others feel the way I do. Please feel free to comment

  95. lurker Says:

    i feel that we would settle if we stuck with glennon instead of winston or mariotta.

  96. StPeteBucsFan Says:


    Thanks for that answer! Revived my aging memory. 🙂

  97. loggedontosay Says:

    Tampabaybucfan Says:
    January 30th, 2015 at 11:45 am
    We will be selecting a QB in this draft….I think it will be Mariota….but if not….still OK….we must pull the trigger now.

    There are only two trade down’s that make any sense…..

    Tenn….then we would still get one of the two QBs
    Jets…..if they want a QB…..

    Oak, Jax, Wash….probably won’t take QB but they could trade their spot.
    Perhaps we would still have a shot at a QB with # 6 but too much of a gamble.

    Here’s another one. “I think it will be Mariota.” You hope it will be Mariota because you have no basis for the thought.

  98. White Tiger Says:

    Wait @joe…you didn’t factor in that secret 3 way trade….

    It’s sad, really…these numbskulls think one NFL head coach is such a moron that all the Glazers/Licht/Lovie needed to do was to pay Adam Schefter to write that article and Chip Kelly could be easily lured into trading ALL his draft picks for the one QB the numbskulls believe is a developmental QB (at best)…

    I mean, if Chip Kelly is THIS crazed for Mariota…wouldn’t it have been easier to have just tanked the season…?

    These guys need to come to grips with the idea that all roads do NOT lead back to Famous Jameis…

  99. Greig Says:

    I guess it would have been misguided of the Raiders to trade out of the pick if somebody wanted Russell, afterall the Raised had that same type of ball & chain holding them back since Gannon retired, RIGHT?

    Would the Rams have been any better had they wasted a 2nd high pick on RGme to battle former mistake in #1 overall Bradford rather than trade back?

    It’s not about where you draft, it’s about how good you are at spotting the right players for your team and going to get them. Can you imagine if the Rams had used a 3rd on Russell Wilson instead of a CB after pulling off that trade? Chances are they would be getting celebrated as the smartest team ever while as it is now both team look like losers from a massive deal.

    We NEED to take a QB #1 overall because it’s a guaranteed fix just like Couch, Carr, Russell, etc and both QBs still playing were 3rd rounders or lower.

  100. Bucfan4life Says:

    Most ridiculous nickname in the history of the NFL has to be calling Glennon “the cannon.” You’re not paying attention if you want “the back up” to stick around and be playing behind center next year. Without using a top pick to draft a QB you end up with guys like Glennon, McCown, Leftwich, Sims, Griese, etc. Being a lifelong Bucs fan I am ready for a franchise QB!

  101. BoJim Says:

    The Cannon is the man this year. Deal with it.

  102. 76er Says:

    Neither QB in the Superbowl was a first round pick. Those insisting that the Bucs take one with the first pick need to think again. Trading down for more picks is a distinct possibility. With so many holes to fill, this may be the best option.

  103. FuNkYxMuNkEy Says:

    Joe whats misguided is your insistence on drafting the scrub of the draft. IF we could pick up Foles and multiple 1st and 2nd round picks. We would be stupid to turn it down. I’m so sick and tired of reading stupid ish on this website. Unfortunately there is no other good Bucs sites.

    We could have our QB of the future in Foles, and still get the OT we need and have multiple picks left over for future years to come. Come on Joe…Get your head in the game!!! Shameis is a waste of space and a horrible human being. Why would you want that as the Face of The Franchise???????????? FML SMH

  104. ToesOnTheLine! Says:

    @ bucfan4lyfe

    The Bucs have swung (and missed many times) for franchise QB’s in round one. Before you pine for a round 1 guy here’s a brief recap of Buc’s Rnd 1 “franchise QB’s”…Doug Williams (pick 17)…a couple NFL teams and a USFL stint…good but far from franchise QB for Bucs; Vinny Testeverde (pick 1)…seven NFL teams..let that sink in, bounced around to 7 teams, a number 1 pick…’nuff said; Trent Dilfer (pick 6)….um, do I need to go there?; Josh Freeman (pick 17)…3 NFL teams 2 of which were in one year! Too easy.

    So the point I try to make to some of you is (1) the Bucs have reached for plenty of guys hoping for a franchise QB (2) the Bucs have had abysmal luck at finding a guy who actually was, and (3) a first round QB does not guarantee anything more than a 3rd round one except two things…you’re paying him more money and if you pick wrong you’ve set your franchise back

  105. MadMax Says:

    Btw, I just watched some Foles footage and sound FX, the fire he has is whats lacking in Glennon.

  106. FuNkYxMuNkEy Says:

    I personally would be ok with Mariotta sitting on the bench for half or a whole season. I would rather trade down with whatever team offers the best package of picks and or players. If we do not receive a package worth taking then I would take Williams out of USC. A talent like that only comes around once or twice a decade. He would be hard to pass on for either QB with so many question marks.

    To me Winston is not even in my top 15-20 picks. He fits more of the Johnny Football dropping mold. Mariotta has the package to be great. The difference between Mariotta and Williams is that Williams is a stud D Lineman the day he is drafted. Mariotta needs a growing period.

    The best scenario is for the new regime in Oakland to fall in love with either QB and be willing to trade Carr, their #4 pick, 2nd rounder this year and next years 1st and 2nd. We would still be able to get either Williams, Gregory, Cooper, or the OT that kills it at the combine and pro day. There is usually a Tackle that sky rockets each draft and this year will be no different IMO.

  107. lurker Says:

    you are way overselling williams and way underselling winston.

    rob rang from has winston 3rd behind leonard williams and randy gregory on his “top 50 eligible prospects” posted 8 days ago, but says this on winston:

    “If not for Winston’s off-field issues he would rank not only as my top quarterback, but my top-ranked overall prospect.”

    i have not heard or read williams called a “once in a decade” talent.

    also, the raiders love carr, why would they trade him?

  108. White Tiger Says:

    Key phrase: “If not for off-the-field issues…”

    You can stop reading there. He’s not the pick. Were you watching the NFL/Goodell struggle with Ray Rice knocking his girfriend out (cold) in the elevator, or the issue with “All DAY” Peterson beating his kid and bragging about it?

    …The NFL is VERY concerned. Lovie Smith comes from Tony Dungy’s coaching tree – the one where you get one chance and then you go play somewhere else, or you’re out of the league…

    You don’t take those kinds of chances with the 1st OVERALL PICK!!?? What don’t you FSU fans understand about that? There just aren’t enough words to throw up on a MB to sway people who know better. Get used to it, Fameis Jameis will NOT be a Buccaneer. …and here’s the thing…JAMEIS WINSTON IS TO BLAME FOR IT!!

    After the stuff that’s gone on this year – the NFL is sending out easily discernible messages “when considering the future of your franchise…don’t do anything that will tarnish the shield any further..”

    If Jameis hadn’t stood on the table and yelled obscenities at young college girls AFTER he had been named as the person of interest in a rape investigation…it might be a different story.

    It’s a shame this kid couldn’t have held it together JUST ONE MORE SEASON…but he could not adhere to strict SELF-discipline AFTER he had JUST been in trouble for aggressive behavior toward a woman, the fool who had JUST WON A NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP AND A HEISMAN…could not control himself long enough to prove that he was targeted by a gold digger – which what was supposed to have happened. Nope, even though he had a lot of “coaching” Winston knew best how to treat women…you stand on a table and scream sexual obscenities at them.

    If he were being considered as a 2nd round prospect, that might be enough to send a message that he has to learn some self-disipline in order to navigate through the mine field of celebrity – but he’s not, he’s being considered for the number one, MOST scrutinized position in the ENTIRE draft – in the season just after the one where TWO NFL Stars have tarnished the reputation of the NFL for brutish behavior…you guys ACTUALLY think ANY NFL team is going to draft a KID who’s best known THIS season for brutish behavior toward women?!!

    NOPE, not gunna happen. …and Jameis did ALL of it to himself.

  109. Seminole Bill Says:

    Just thinking here… our #1 to the Titans for their #2 in the first round and their #2 in the second round. We get either Marcus or Jameis with our new first round number 2, and then two quality players with our numbers 1 and 2 in the second round.

  110. FuNkYxMuNkEy Says:


    With regards to the Raiders. I said maybe the new regime likes Mariotta or Winston more. That is a possibility. Not likely I understand, but you never know.

    And the key to your post is “If not for off field issues”. Like @whitetiger said, he will not be here in Tampa. I would bet my life on that. How ignorant can one person be…under investigation for a rape accusation and then as white tiger said, Stands up on a table and yells F her n her P. Really…and not to mention 17 ints in college this season. No thanks, not worth the headache.

    As far as Williams goes, its not possible to oversell Williams. Watch his tape. He can line up at any position on the D Line. And dominate at all four positions. I have seen multiple reports talking about how great he already is and will continue to be a dominate force in the NFL. Gregory is a great player as well. He has a great chance to go to Tennessee at #2.

    Teams that draft players with huge question marks usually end up losing out. Teams that draft the “sure thing” with no real questions about there on field talent and off field character. They tend to succeed. I love Mariotta but I would have no issues with taking Williams at #1. He would instantly help out all 3 levels of our D. Him, GMC, McDonald, and whoever our other DE might be is a dominate line. Blitz less and cover more and still get pressure on the QB. That’s the goal for most teams in the NFL and we would have that opportunity if we draft Williams. Even Johnson could do well with those 3. Hell, Johnson started playing good when he got healthy the last 3 or 4 games of the season. We could have one of the top D Lines in all of football with one or two “right” moves.

  111. White Tiger Says:

    Yep, @Funky – Mariota has made himself the easy pick. After selecting a QB for the franchise, Lovie would have the political capital to sit him for a year and develop him in some situation roles this year.

    Lovie could then use the premium draft picks (our 2nd rounder looks attractive to package to trade back into the 1st if a player of value were to become available) to fill some other skill positions., …but the idea of trading back into the 1st means that we could possibly trade back into round one to get the LOT to match with that brand new shiny QB!

    unfortunately… because there is no edge rusher in this draft, that’s going to have to come from FA or a trade (probably FA).

    The team will be on solid footing, because they don’t take chances at the top of the draft…where a bad pick kills the career of the coach/GM and makes the owners really uncomfortable.

    Feeling a lot better about this draft.

  112. happyal Says:

    Best player in the draft hands down is DT leonard Williams southern Cal
    Team him up with. McCoy … Best pick in Bucs history