What To Make Of McCown Promotion

November 5th, 2014

josh mccown 0920

As Joe sits tapping on his keyboard wondering if Charlie Christ will next run for governor as a Libertarian or representing the Green Party (Charlie’s running out of parties), Joe also wonders what the hell is going on at One Buc Palace?

Once again, the quarterback of the future is relegated to the quarterback of the past but not the quarterback of the present. Joe has never seen such disarray with the Bucs. Not when Raheem Morris was chest-bumping folks down three scores, not when Greg Schiano was surrounded by the MRSA.

At least last year when the Bucs stunk, folks could always say Schiano was a college guy over his head. Bucs coach Lovie Smith, however, is an 18-year NFL veteran who once took a team to the Super Bowl.

Joe never dreamed the Bucs would have hit rock bottom as they have now, a trainwreck in every regard. Not with a guy like Lovie at the helm.

But here we are. A dismal team that finds a new way to lose each and every week now decides to bench the quarterback hailed before the season as a future savior — the guy also responsible for the Bucs’ lone win.

Benched for a guy Lovie once thought so much of he cut him in favor of Jason Campbell.

The only sensible thought is that Lovie is desperate for a win and has resorted to grasping at straws. One would have to be beyond desperate to think McCown is the guy to lead this team out of the NFL abyss; he’s one of the reasons the Bucs are there to begin with, thanks to his garish turnovers.

Joe is the kind of a guy who believes that if you can’t make the playoffs, then make the draft: Lose. (No, that doesn’t mean Joe roots against the Bucs when the whistle blows.) Of course, this is contrary to every piece of DNA in a player or coach’s body; but if you press a front office type who is secure in his job, they won’t lose sleep over a better draft slot.

Joe isn’t getting a vibe the Bucs want to draft a quarterback early next year.

Of course, Team Glazer may have different ideas. Let’s not be naive: It is well-chronicled that Team Glazer jettisoned the best coach in franchise history and the lone coach who got the Bucs a Super Bowl win because he wouldn’t draft — or couldn’t develop — a franchise quarterback. That’s what started the current Bucs mess to begin with.

If Team Glazer can run Chucky, then they could run anyone who refuses to follow orders. And to be more frank, since that cold Friday evening in January 2009 when Chucky was thrown out of One Buc Palace with three years left on his contract, this team has been a regular laughingstock of the NFL.

The facepalm chuckling continued yesterday.

57 Responses to “What To Make Of McCown Promotion”

  1. Jimmy Says:

    It’s more about Glennon’s demotion. Glennon started because Josh was hurt. He had the chance to run away with it.

  2. Buctank Says:

    Just seems over the top. Everyone goes back to those few turnovers yet Bucs had the ball with chance to win week 1 and had lead till final tick week 2. I was at the Georgia domw and sure mccown threw a pick 6 right before the injury, but he also dropped a perfect pass into Bobby rainey on a wheel route he dropped. All this while just losing his offensive coordinator. Glennon has started 18 games and our offense is ranked last during those 18 games. As someone who pays to see this wreck, you have to go with who gives you the best chance to win! The fact is glennon does not throw a lot of picks because glennon isn’t aggresive in his reads. He is way too conservative. The steelers throwing the ball on 3rd down is why glennon has our only win and more importantly mccown can move and will wd that dynamic back to our offense

  3. P'cola Buc Says:

    Lovie does not want to lose face and show the world he has perhaps made a mistake on his hunch to bring in McCown especially at such a high price. What about his ( what looks like) poor decisions at free agency and the money that seemingly went out the window there? Lovie may be feeling that the ship is going down and all he has left is his ego. He will do everything to try to put the proverbial square peg into that round hole. He’ll keep trying and trying. Hoping against hope….after all there is only 8 games left this year to show he was not all wrong. It may be a very long off season for him……and if doesn’t draft a QB with the 1st draft pick…he may have a mutiny on his hands.

  4. billy buckaroo Says:

    As poor as Glennon has played in the last 2 weeks I would have been more surprised to see him start again this week.
    I actually wondered that if McCown wasn’t ready if he would start Kafka.

  5. Scotty in Fat Antonio Says:

    Hmmmm…wonder if the Fowlclowns will have ANOTHER field day with McClown.

  6. Touch_Down_Tampa_Bay Says:

    Hilarious!!!! To think this is Lovie’s ego move?? Hilarious!!!

    I’m not in there watching and evaluating the team at practice and watching film but Lovie is. We seen enough on these last 3 games to know Glennon is a backup QB.

    In Lovie I TRUST!!! Go Bucs!!

    p.s. Do you really know what you know? Be real!!!

  7. Aceofaerospace Says:

    Since you brought it up, I expect Charlie Crist to run as a woman next time. Then he can run as a victim of the war on women.

  8. phil Says:

    Not sure if this is Lovie’s plan or not but the good news is this should keep us in the Jameis Winston race.

  9. Chef Paul Says:

    QB’s and kickers are fragile minded beasts. When Kurt Warner got benched for Eli, he told them, no matter how bad Eli is in his rookie year, don’t go back to Warner. It will ruin Eli. They were smart and did just that and won a couple Super Bowls. I’m not saying Glennon = Eli. I’m saying Lovie don’t know how to handle QB’s and we are without a QB right now.

    Licht has a lot of work to do in the next few months to convince Lovie to draft a QB. That aint no easy task.

  10. Tony Says:

    I think McCown is better than Glennon and gives the team the best chance to win right now. Outside of those really foolish interceptions, McCown was fine. Look how many pass attempts he had compared to Glennon per game. They weren’t allowing him to throw it to get into any kind of rhythm. If they have decided, rightly so, that Glennon is not the future and McCown is practicing better than you have to make the move. The players on the team don’t want to tank for the draft. This had to be done. Unfortunately, we may end up winning a few games and really screwing up our draft position.

  11. Buckin' Round Says:

    I really wish people would stop praying for the Bucs to draft Winston. The kid is a walking nightmare. His attitude and behavior are both unacceptable, and he isn’t the kind of person you want in a locker room.

  12. RayRay1 Says:

    What this says to me is that Lovie is convinced that Glennon is not the future or the present. Allowing them to bet on McCown for the rest of the season & whatever time they need to get a QB prepared that is drafted next year. So I look for McCown to be THE guy as long as he doesn’t spit the bit to badly.

  13. Tom Edrington Says:

    The move will simply prove that the Bucs have not one, but two, mediocre, career backup QBs, neither worthy of being a starter in the league…..it’s all about who will quarterback this team next year, isn’t it????

  14. OB Says:


    Maybe Lovie is going to confuse the other teams by playing both of them on alternate series so they won’t know who is doing what, of course we may not either. We need a good QB, I don’t think we have one yet.

    They seem to have Mike Evens coming on, now we need to get ASJ and Sims on the same road.

  15. flmike Says:

    Lets take the long view…
    If the Bucs continue to lose, who does Lovie turn to, no one, he’s stuck with his guy. This is it for Lovie, this is his stand, make or break, win or lose, he’s going to go down with HIS guy. If this $hitshow continues, it may be the last major decision Snuffy makes as an NFL head coach…

  16. bucrightoff Says:

    Lovie did this in a short sighted attempt to believe McCown will win more games. because the heat on Lovie is very high right now. He talked way too much this offseason and should have shut his mouth and kept expectations realistic. Now here’s the rub to going back to McCown: If McCown comes in and they look worse, Lovie has now signed his firing papers. To start with the the old guy, switch to the young guy, and then switch back from the young guy back to the old guy….what more incompetence do we need to see?

    Lovie was hired for defensive reasons, and his defense is utterly awful. So allowing him to dick around and screw with the offense, his biggest weakness by a mile, is absurd. And no one except fans of the other 3 teams in this division wants Lovie anywhere near a top 3 pick with a potential QB to be drafted. He’s already proven over 10 years he knows nothing about QBs.

  17. P'cola Buc Says:

    @ TDTB
    No one knows if Lovie’s ego is involved here….that is true. And neither do you know for that matter. Lovie is human….he has an ego….as we all do. But understand this…..the offense’s play calling is less than stellar….would you not agree? Many have advised him to get a “consultant”. At this point it couldn’t hurt yet he says absolutely not. Laughable to think there may be ego involved here?…..He’s human….so perhaps not. Just saying……

  18. 1bucfan88 Says:

    Lovie Smith the Coward. Disgusting.

    All QBs being equal, we might know what we have in Glennon….but we DEFINITELY know what we have in McClown. Stupid, shortsighted move by a head coach who is already clearly afraid of losing his job. Let me play Devils advocate now, let’s say Lovie is doing it because some veterans prefer McCown and expressed displeasure with Glennon after the CLE loss. Some might say if he doesn’t make the switch he could lose the locker room (as if he had control of it to begin with). I personally have had enough of this $h*tshow. Call me when the Glazers have the sense to fire this clown.

  19. JMN Says:

    Glennon had his shot to win the starting job over McCown. All he had to do was win some games and he would not of put himself in this situation. I was a big supporter of Glennon and wanted him to succeed. Unfortunately, he was way to conservative. Starting QBs make the players around them better with their drive and fire to win. I did not see this in Glennon, especially when running for the first down and he wimped out of bounds before the marker! Glennon will make a fine backup QB.

  20. Gooberville Says:

    Joe Joe joe .. What are you smoking? To compare going back to the starter from the beginning of the year (your boy had every chance to keep the job but blew it) to the mess of Raheem and Schiano is absolutely ridiculous. Glennon got the job because MCcown was hurt. This is doing nothing but confirming that Lovie was right in bringing in another QB. Glennon looks the same as last year and is not going to get any better.. And don’t go and pull that crap that he has 1 win.. The Steelers had a brainfart and Glennon played good for what 8 seconds? Do you watch the games Joe? We should have easily beat the Vikings and Browns and Lovie and everyone else at 1Buc know that if Mccown started those games we would have 2 more wins. Quit letting your status as a General and card carrying member of the Glennon mob blind your vision.

  21. Touch_Down_Tampa_Bay Says:

    History shows this is when the T2 defense on its 1st year keeps getting better.
    History shows this is when all these coaches want to be will change their tune.
    The MOB is already collapsing.
    Joe already left the MOB!

    Come on in! The door is always open.
    In Lovie I TRUST!!!

  22. MaHaBoNe.D Buc Says:

    Glennon = draft picks…… he will not be here next year. Glennon will be traded in the off season and Lovie’s afraid if he leaves Glennon in he will sink his value on the open market.

  23. SAMCRO Says:

    Joe is the kind of a guy who believes that if you can’t make the playoffs, then make the draft: Lose. (No, that doesn’t mean Joe roots against the Bucs when the whistle blows.)


    You can’t have your cake and eat it too. It is downright disgraceful for any fan to suggest losing just to receive a better draft pick. It’s a loser mentality. How is Joe’s little flip flop any different than his little diatribe about Charlie Crist? If we happen to lose the rest of our games, then so be it, but as a true fan I would like to win every single game we play, and let the best loser’s prize fall where it may.

    Refuse to Lose!!! Go Bucs!!!

    Sir, the idea is to win a Super Bowl. That’s the goal. Sometimes, it’s better to develop young players and see what fruit that leads to in the draft. Just ask Colts fans. –Joe

  24. biff barker Says:

    “Joe also wonders what the hell is going on at One Buc Palace?”

    It’s an increasingly crowded room Joe.

    Lovie seems intent to sit atop his resume just expecting the wins to come.

    But the reality is his blind faith in really outdated and crappy schemes on both sides of the ball. Hell, even ST’s have been in shambles.

    The saddest part of all this will be his complete unwillingness to change anything except coordinators and players.

  25. johnnytheMOON Says:

    Since MCown is better than Glennon according to Lovie ….shouldnt we have a lot of trade offers for Mccown than in the offseason …Lovie is amazing to be able to sign such a awesome qb like McCOWN , i mean we must of been in a bidding war for his services .

  26. Hawaiian Buc Says:

    To me, he’s making the decision he needs to make. With every loss, he loses more fans, and more importantly, more players. He can’t sit back and let the team lose. Even the biggest MGM member can see that Glennon has regressed. He had every opportunity to seize the starting job, and he failed. To stick with Glennon all but tells the rest of the guys on the team that he is giving up on the season, which in turn will make them give up on the season. We all know McCown isn’t a good QB. However, he was the starting QB to start the season. Every person I saw that watched a practice said he looked considerably better than Glennon. There’s nothing wrong with giving him another chance, because we can all see Glennon isn’t the guy. I don’t need to see any more, and neither should any of you. People who like to say things like “Peyton, Brees, etc. struggled early on, ” don’t realize that while they did struggle, they didn’t miss guys that were running 5 yards wide open. Glennon does that consistently. He’s not accurate, he’s not consistent, he’s not mobile, and he’s not even that cerebral IMO. You could see the talent oozing out of the Mannings and Brees – you see none of that from Glennon except the occasional good throw (which even Christian Ponder has made on occasion). A coach’s mentality is to win games, not prepare for the future, because if they don’t win, they won’t have a future.

  27. bucs4lyfe Says:

    Glennon had every chance to run away with the starting quarterback role but he wet the bed. Lovie actually finally did something smart by not naming him the starter when mccown got hurt, I think that what lovie and licht saw after sundays game was what they saw on tape of him this off season. if glennon was any good he was have been named the starter in the offseason and gotten all the reps in practice to get ready for the season. He’s an ok quarterback just not good enough to prevent this franchise from drafting another qb. no one guy is bigger than the franchise so if your crying over glennon losing the job then you need to check your emotions.

  28. deminion Says:

    Knowing Lovie he will draft a QB #1 overall and still start Mccown

  29. NewTampaChris Says:

    This isn’t that complicated. L&L brought McCown in and made him the starter. McCown got hurt. But ONLY because McCown didn’t play well in his 2.5 games, Glennon got the chance to rip the job away. And ultimately, he didn’t do that.

    You only get so many chances in this league. Glennon wasn’t horrible but wasn’t good enough that he couldn’t be sent back to the bench.

    I have no problem with this move.

  30. 911bucs Says:

    Too bad the state of Florida can’t go retrieve their medical marijuana to alleviate the anxiety this QB decision has caused.

  31. P'cola Buc Says:

    It’s become clear, I believe, that both McCown and Glennon are at best serviceable back up quarterbacks. There is no doubt that neither are franchise quarterbacks. No matter what choice Lovie makes he will not win. Despite the fact that the team has many needs, I believe if either Mariota or Winston are possible to draft next year…we must pull the trigger. For now we and Lovie must grin and bear it….

  32. denjoe Says:

    It’s bull for lovie, to pin this loss on mike,the special teams were putrid, and there were some critical penalties and drops. I lost respect for lovie.

  33. Horice Says:

    If Joe has “never” seen this type of disarray, then you haven’t been following or covering this organization as long as you’ve lead us to believe.

  34. Fort Myers Dave Says:

    Do the Falcons change their gameplan if they perceive a change of starting qb???? I would think that the Falcons are confident they could mop the floor with either guy after the fiasco in week 3 but maybe Lovie was trying to give the ATL something extra to think about when Glennon popped that balloon when he announced to the world that he was not starting….. Joe is right; it has been a trainwreck since the baby Glazers canned Gruden; the rot started at the top and it has steadily been getting worse over the past 6 seasons….

  35. Ray Rice Says:

    As I said yesterday and before. Glennon has not taken advantage of the opportunity presented to him. He will be gone next season. Mccown will be here as a back-up to the rookie QB we draft. I would definitely rather have a veteran with a good attitude, experience, and work ethic teaching our new shiny toy (QB).

  36. bucrightoff Says:

    Do people think this is about “starting the best guy”? McCown offers nothing to anyone, everyone knows what he is at this point: a guy who had an anomaly of 5 games last year, got paid and returned to the norm this year. No matter what you think of Glennon, he’s still more unknown, and younger, than McCown. Glennon wasn’t great the last couple weeks but nowhere near bad enough to get benched. This is Lovie once again not trusting young players at all, and trusting vets well past the point he should.

    How do you know this decision is utterly moronic? Glennon is literally one play away from still being starter. If he makes one of those throws to Evans and the Bucs win, he’s not getting benched. When Lovie was hired it should have been written in his contract he was barred from any personnel decisons and any involvement in the offense.

  37. nate Says:

    Lovie knpws we need to lose all our games for the rest ofnthe year and josh will do that for us…he needs all the picks he can get!

  38. Aubpierce Says:

    You have to let Glennon play to get better.The great Peyton Manning in his fourth year threw 23 ints with 26 tds and a QB rating of 84.1%.Mannings numbers exploded after that.Manning played on a much better team then Glennon, and with a patient coach.Lovie promised to much and can’t deliver.I hope Glennon gets traded and becomes a decent QB, just life many before him.

  39. Not Glennon Says:


    Do you honestly need to see more of Glennon. The guy isn’t it. He’s bad and lately just worse. If I was Lovie I would’ve started Mccown last week. His job may be in jeopardy. He needs a win. The fans need a win. Maybe we will lose again but damn at least he is changing it up. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. Glennon is what he is. A average quarterback. Never will be more. Maybe Mccown will suck too. But it can’t get much worse than Glennon.

  40. Brandon Says:

    Glennon had a shot, and for the most part, he sucked. McCown is not the future of the franchise, but the franchise believes that starting McCown gives them the best shot at winning…and that looks like all they’re trying to do… is win a game.

    As for Glennon, benching him might have been the best thing for him and his trade value. The more he goes out there and stinks it up, the more tape other prospective teams have on him and the less his value to a team and trade value becomes. The last 3 weeks he has looked exactly like Mike Glennon from last season…statue in the pocket, poor footwork, noodle arm, not accurate enough..he’s not starter material at this point.

  41. Brandon Says:

    Aubpierce Says:
    November 5th, 2014 at 10:28 am
    You have to let Glennon play to get better.The great Peyton Manning in his fourth year threw 23 ints with 26 tds and a QB rating of 84.1%.Mannings numbers exploded after that.Manning played on a much better team then Glennon, and with a patient coach.Lovie promised to much and can’t deliver.I hope Glennon gets traded and becomes a decent QB, just life many before him.

    Peyton Manning played for a team with no talent during his first few years in the league. Remember, the Colts picked #1 overall for a good reason the year Manning was drafted. And then when he was drafted, he was taken by noted old-school coach Jim Mora, who was a run first and second kind of guy. Peyton had little talent around him, an even worse OL around him (that was for most of his years in Indy) but he kept his team in games by throwing the ball accurately down the field. Glennon has done that maybe twice in his career.

  42. bob in valrico Says:

    lovie had to make a logical decision. 50+ field goals should not part of gameplan in middle of game.
    Incumbant on offense to move past opponents 45 yard line.The last time i saw glennon hit a reciever in stride was across the middle to shephard and murphy.
    shorter over the middle passes are his comfort zone.He also made some decent passes in the red zone.i have seen him throw to short receiver that was covered
    rather than complete a pass to a wide open receiver 4 yards past this defender.
    you have to wonder if it his lack of confidence in his ability to complete this pass
    factored into his decisionmaking.sideline accuracy has not been good.if receiver has steps on defender hit him the hands not in the defenders numbers.believe he knows he is making critical mistakes and his confidence has been shaken.sitting and watching is best thing for him right now.
    he may or may not get another chance down the road

  43. Buccfan37 Says:

    One thing I’ve noticed is when the few fans turn one direction, most of the rest follow like a change in wind direction. Like MG’s supposed demise, groupthink huddles together.

  44. Patrickbucs Says:

    johnnytheMOON Says:
    November 5th, 2014 at 8:49 am
    Since MCown is better than Glennon according to Lovie ….shouldnt we have a lot of trade offers for Mccown than in the offseason …Lovie is amazing to be able to sign such a awesome qb like McCOWN , i mean we must of been in a bidding war for his services .

    You don’t think there were other teams offering McCown a job:)? Average veteran QB makes $3-$5 million that’s what was paid to McCown. Orton was paid that as well. Look at Bears record w Cutler last year and a half vs McCown. Not saying McCown has played well this year but the majority of Bears fans wanted McCown left in when Cutker got healthy.

  45. Buc1987ForJameis Says:

    So many thoughtful paragraph comments…too bad they ARE tanking.

  46. ctord Says:

    The bucs now HAVE to draft a quarterback. that is what this means.

  47. SAMCRO Says:

    Sir, the idea is to win a Super Bowl. That’s the goal. Sometimes, it’s better to develop young players and see what fruit that leads to in the draft. Just ask Colts fans. –Joe

    You say that, but every time Lovie Smith loses, you trash him, and rile up the fan base. The man can’t lose or he may not survive til next year with all the bad press that follows. So do you really think he wants to tank it so next years new regime gets a higher draft pick? Joe isn’t calling for anyone to tank anything. –Joe

  48. bucrightoff Says:

    And people want Lovie involved in the drafting of a QB? I would hope not given his incredibly poor track record. Lovie is only good at making QBs look bad, both the opponents and his own/

  49. buc4lyfe Says:

    Glennon has to continue to develop? What you mean he has to continue to play to learn how to hit open receivers? Has to learn how to throw the ball consistently where someone can easily catch and run instead of falling down? He had to learn to average more than a 59%completion percentage? If he gives us the best chance to win why is he not winning, why can’t he really the offense? If lovie is trying to get a win and went back to mccown it means Glennon had a chance and didn’t show any improvement.

  50. ChargedCBH Says:

    James Joseph “Jim” Harbaugh

  51. Istillbleedorange Says:

    To constantly push for Glennon to start while dismissing the obvious reasons to reinsert McCown into the starter’s position is borderline asinine. Remember the definition of insanity? To repeat an action expecting different results? Glennon as the starter is INSANITY! He has had ample opportunity to take this team, and his career, in hand and run with it. Not only has he not taken advantage of his chances, but has, in my opinion, regressed mentally as a quarterback. He has the physical tools to play, but his decisions are questionable, and even horrible. (Not reaching for the 1st downs, running out of bounds behind the line of scrimmage, et al)
    Josh McCown didn’t get benched, he was injured while the offense was in complete disarray, instead of only slightly chaotic now. But even with his bad decisions, the team was in a position to win the 1st two games of the season. Now, he is healthy again, and is returning to his starting position, not promoted to it. Everyone knows that McCown isn’t the future quarterback, but he is the present. With his mobility and athleticism, there are more wins possible under his leadership, than with Glennon’s lack thereof. And that is the name of the game. Winning. Of course, everyone wants the Super Bowl, but no one wants to lose. Again and again and again. And to think that the reason to cheer is for a future draft pick, that might be good for Oakland or Jacksonville fan, but I’m sure most Buccaneer fans will choose winning over losing.

  52. Newbucsfan!!! Says:

    Someone wrote on here that if McCown was so good than why didn’t we get any trade offers for him. How are we to know they didn’t? The real question is were their any offers for Glennon and what was offered?

  53. bucrightoff Says:

    Teams offered the Bucs a pile of steaming turds and some coupons to the circus for McCown. Obviously they declined.

  54. Newbucsfan!!! Says:

    Jim Harbaugh did not build the 49’ers, find out who the previous coach was and how he had to change the culture. Chip Kelly walk on to a team that had Maclin, Jacson, McCoy, and a decent o-line and was fairly able to build an offense right away. Would you all agree? Andy Ried went to a team that sent 4 or 5 players to the probowl on defense that same year plus he had a good o-line, number 1 wr, great rb, and brought in Alex smith. Lovie Smith could have went to the Lions but chose to come to a team that went 4-12 its previous season and bust all over the place. Only one all-pro and a linebacker that was skipped over for other linebackers in the league that had worse stats but Tampa loves him. This fan base is still torn on the Mike Glennon benching somewhat. TAMPA FANS! WERE THE BUCS REALLY THAT GOOD? Lovie Smith finally brought some shine to this team and maybe David will make the probowl and if Banks continues to play like he is the Bucs will have 3 probowlers on their team. THAT’S BUILDING A FOUNDATION.

  55. ihateloviesmith Says:

    lovie is a flip flopping SOB and he is grasping for straws, his game plan, FA’s, assistant coaches, coordinators, every damn thing that he put his fingerprints on, has been a huge failure, he is stubborn to the point of incompetence. I personally for one, would not want this idiot, to coach my sons pop warner team. as for the QB situation, it is what it is, everyone knows and have known forever and a day we needed a franchise QB! also we all can see that neither QB is the answer. so that leads us to the upcoming draft, well if by chance we do pull out a 5-11 season then what? would that get us a top 3 pick? say we were third pick what then? with this coach and his staff there is no chance for a competitive team, and I do not think lovie could develop a cold let alone a franchise QB.

  56. Buc1987ForJameis Says:

    Charlie Crist might run as a tea party candidate next time around…

  57. Buctebow Says:

    Well, neither QB has look good, but I do want to see McCown behind an Oline that isn’t the turnstile he had to work with in the games he played. I’m hoping that makes a difference. I don’t think McCown has had a fair shot yet. I still think we need to draft a QB (although I’m afraid they may pick up another FA).