Flying Flags

October 6th, 2014

Logan Mankins weighs in

Yesterday, flags flew in the Bucs-Saints game like seagulls when someone walks the beach with an overflowing bag of French Fries.

Just in the Drive from Hell, the drive that went in reverse, like a senior citizen punches the wrong pedal on his car (you know the kind, when a garage door is blown through, or new window is created in a donut shop), there were three penalties in six plays. That turned the game around and doomed the Bucs in the fourth quarter.

Bucs fans wanted to throw beer bottles through their TVs, not so much for the Bucs pretending leaky, sleepy Josh Freeman was their quarterback again (see Jets-Bucs 2013), but at the referees for going flag-happy.

It seems Bucs fans may have a point. Veteran All-Pro guard Logan Mankins was none too happy, either, and seemed to suggest the zebras were taking a bit too much artistic license in what they deemed a penalty.

“Any penalty is hard to take and we had some of them called today that were questionable,” Mankins said. “I’m not going to say anything bad about the referees because I will get fined and anyone else can sit here and criticize them. But, I guess, what we have to do is avoid situations like that where things can get called because they only end up hurting the team.”

You know, Mankins makes a helluva point. It could be the Bucs are coaching up offensive linemen to do some things that push the envelope. Some zebra crews may be inclined to throw flags on an action that borders a penalty, even if it’s not blatant. Joe doesn’t know the coaching staff is actually doing this, but it seems to Joe that was what Mankins is implied. And it adds up.

Look, Mankins has a helluva long track record with one of the better coaches to ever walk an NFL sideline. He would know if the Bucs are walking into a gray area with techniques or not.

Though it is too late for this season, hopefully the Bucs can work this out so they are not targets for flags next year.

33 Responses to “Flying Flags”

  1. SteveBucsFan Says:

    Yet amazingly the saints linemen were never called for a hold even when McCoy was holding his hands in the air while being turned around. Or the the “incomplete pass” on the Cholston fumble. The refs did everything they could to hand the game to the NFL darling saints. I wouldn’t be surprised if one of the refs had drew on his fantasy team.

  2. BucsQcCity Says:

    After calming down from yesterday loss, I can see real positives of the Bucs. They are improving: defense play tougher, Barron actually stepped up good, oline is giving great pass protection and Glennon looked more solid than I thought and I love Lansannah. Pass rush is also improving.

    If they can find a true FS, a cover2 MLB, an OC and fix the penalties and the drops. They gonna be real good in the coming years

  3. flmike Says:

    I’m convinced the refs are trying to prove a point to the NFL…all the games I watched yesterday and throughout the season, the refs have been flag happy. There were quite a few that were borderline questionable, there were also flagrant penalties that were completely ignored, like throwing the ball away perpendicular to the the play 10 yards behind an “Intended” receiver, who by the way has his back was to the play. How is 30 plus feet with your back to the play “In the area” or the killer holding on Mankins where the defender was actually the one holding and purposely pulling Mankins to the ground on top of him.

  4. iamkingsu Says:

    Before I read this I was going to comment on the refs no matter the what you wouldve chose to write about. Its like the refs were going to do whatever they had to do for the saints to win that game because no one (meaning nationally) would care if we lost.

  5. "TheKevin" Says:

    Maybe if the defense doesn’t give up a billion yards we wouldn’t have to blame the refs.

    Stop with the blaming. The defense was absolutely terrible. 500 YARDS!

    That’s not the refs fault.

  6. iamkingsu Says:

    Even all the highlight shows they just show the safety then go straight to the overtime throw. No mention of the fumble on Colston I mean damn he did the same exact ish vs the falcons week 1. The refs were like naw I’m not going to let yall lose another game like that because no one outside of Tampa would care

  7. SAMCRO Says:

    It could be the Bucs are coaching up offensive linemen to do some things that push the envelope.


    That clearly is not what Mankins implied. Pretty hard to correct phantom borderline calls, and not to mention the lopsidedness in those supposed infractions. I seen a lot of questionable calls on the Saints side that were completely ignored. They got away with a lot of holding. They were practically mugging our receivers. The officiating preordained the winner before the game was played, and it was blatantly apparent by my vantage point.

    Ask yourself why we never got one sack? They were holding. I seen one play where Spence was double teamed from the front and the back, like a sardine sandwich as they practically body slammed him to the turf. Ref was staring right at it, reaching for his flag but never tossed it. Once again, the refs can dictate the winner.

  8. flmike Says:

    Extending Saints’ drives and killing Bucs drives due to penalties absolutely added to that number.

  9. holymoly Says:

    Wasn’t going to comment on the refs, but, it seemed whenever the Bucs would get a positive play, here comes the flags . When a player like Mankins has to hold his tongue, it says a lot. Goodell has turned the NFL into a yellow, pansy, only brady or manning get the call, league. The Bucs have to find a way to stop the running game, to let some guy I never heard of, run through and over them , it’s time for Lovie to tighten the D !

  10. mark2001 Says:

    Joe…I didn’t read into Mankins comments that they were told to do things that might be “border line” or at times might be called by “overly flag inclined refs.”…it just means that they will have to try to keep from being called on it, and that those refs were influenced, or shall we say even worse…simply “paid shills”?

  11. Ryan Says:

    It’s easy to say “you can’t blame the refs, we gave up 509 yards of offense!” But when you have multiple drives extended due to questionae penalties (hands to the face) and you have your own drives stalled for the same reason (Mankins hold?) it’s hard to take the yards accumulated by each team as a true measure of how the game really went. Not to mention if even half of those painfully obvious GMAC holds were called, the saints would’ve had many more drives stall out and that 500 mark would not have been reached.

  12. rrsrq Says:

    those refs were so flag happy they even threw a flag just because, then said there was no flag for tripping, I wonder who that penalty would’ve been on.

  13. Stranger Says:

    Yea, no Joe. Those were the most bias refs I’ve seen in quite awhile. If anyone wanted to know what super star calls look like, just show them a video of the Saints holding McCoy like a straight jacket.

  14. rrsrq Says:

    those crying about the yardage the defense gave up, you just need them to make a play, they did, they forced a Colson fumble, but to no avail, because the refs/the league see more value in a Saints win than a Bucs win.

  15. Buccfan37 Says:

    The refs were definitely homers in this game, no doubt about it. Don’t tell me the home team did’nt get preferential treatment. It stood out like a sore thumb. They should of been wearing the Aints colors. The Big Easy, yeah because it’s easy to have the refs in your pocket.

  16. billy buckaroo Says:

    Notice that when there is a touchdown or any big offense play you get 5 different replay views of the play but when a ref calls a ticky tack penalty, at best you get a quick flash of a replay if any at all.
    Not much “instant replay” on the refs calls

  17. knucknbuc Says:

    We got screwed let’s just leave it at that. My girl who isn’t even a bucs fan and is an eagles fan said she’s never seen more blatantly officialed game to favor a side. Almost like the game was fixed. Let’s be honest if your the league who do you want to win more the drew breed saints or the downturn bucs. Whose going to know you cheated. What happened to that last 8sec in the 4th at? Joe? I could of swore we called a timeout after the Doug Martin run then it went straight to it. We had 3 tos left? And that hands to the face call on Jonathan banks in ot only gets called against us and the jags.

  18. Brandon Says:

    BucsQcCity Says:
    October 6th, 2014 at 6:44 am
    After calming down from yesterday loss, I can see real positives of the Bucs. They are improving: defense play tougher, Barron actually stepped up good, oline is giving great pass protection and Glennon looked more solid than I thought and I love Lansannah. Pass rush is also improving.

    If they can find a true FS, a cover2 MLB, an OC and fix the penalties and the drops. They gonna be real good in the coming years


    I agree. A nice LDE would be great too… but not having that presence in the middle of the field (MLB and FS) is really hurting this team.

  19. j moné Says:

    I hate Leonard Johnson

  20. Rob in Land O Lakes Says:

    While the Bucs made too many mistakes to expect to win, the same can be said for New Orleans. At the end of the game it was 31-31. All any player, coach or fan can ask is that the game is called consistently. Whether they call a tight game or let them play, do it consistently for each side. Here’s my concern when it comes to the officiating yesterday.

    1. Johnthan Banks illegal contact call. 3rd & 10, away from the play, Banks in press coverage, WR uses his hands to get off the press and Banks hand goes to either the facemask or under. Not egregious, but a penalty. Because I’m a glutton for punishment, I fast forwarded through the game again and on nearly 100% of the plays where either team was in press, the DB on BOTH teams made contact, and on a few occasions, contact with the helmet. TB was flagged I believe 4 times including the Banks call, NO once (Lewis Murphy TD).

    2. Marcus Colston non review – Inside 2:00 minutes, Colston appeared to catch the ball turn to go upfield, ball stripped, Bucs recover, ruled incomplete on the field. Where I put it on Lovie is in not calling timeout, even though it’s a booth review, it would have given him time to plead his case for a booth review. Even the JV Fox announcers said this should be reviewed.

    You have to love the twin bill of intelligence on the post-game show (Ronnie Lane and Tom Krasniqi “It was a close call so they decided not to review it” Excuse me but isn’t the whole thought of replay …. to review close calls? And they get paid for this.

    3. Offensive holding – There’s holding on every play, and all but the Mankins call (where Mankins was getting bear hugged) looked to be good holding calls. My problem is inconsistency. McCoy was being held on nearly every pass play, and I counted three a piece on Gholston and Johnson.

    Do I think the fix is in? No… I doubt the NFL cares either way about either market. I DO think these guys are just plain bad officials who call what they feel like when they feel like it and are told to call any hard hits to show the league cares about player safety.

    Trust me… in the next few weeks, New Orleans will get screwed buy a crew like this. Officiating in this league across the board is generally bad and inconsistent.

  21. Adrian Says:

    Does anyone know what was said after Raineys touchdown that got the language penalty?

  22. Joe Says:


    Hard to tell.

  23. Clintro Says:

    I have never seen a worse one sided officiated game…. and we have had some bad calls before.

    That is my positive takeaway… we played well enough to win in NO with horrible crowd noise bad officiating and several injuries. Most of the time away divisional games are going to be losses so we just have to take care of business at home and we should be fine this year. We just have to manage our expectations, Rome wasn’t built in a day.

  24. Clintro Says:


    Some web site had the raw footage up and you don’t hear anything…. I am sick of these celebration and language penalties. If it makes the broadcast the play should be fined, otherwise keep the flag in your pocket.

  25. Bucamania Says:

    Penalties are up 16% across the NFL. I guess Goodell thinks that’s good for the game and viewers. It’s making it tough to watch. After any decent play I almost expect a flag.

  26. feelthepewterpower Says:

    The NFL wants the Saints back in the playoff picture, hence the flags.

  27. Greg Says:

    There was a graphic on last night’s Bengals-Patriots game that showed through the first five games last year, the refs called 38 defensive holding penalties. Through five games this year, they’ve thrown 90 flags for d holding. We’re not the only team getting screwed by officiating, but we are definitely taking a lion’s share of them for sure!

  28. BucIt941 Says:

    Right or Wrong the Refs are starting to ruin games and have been for the last oh say 8+ years. It is becoming ridiculous. More importantly are the “Questionable” Calls. I mean this is Football NOT basketball. I am more than sick of seeing them on T.V. more often than i see the actual game.

    No matter how good or bad a team is. Refs ultimately decide games in the NFL

  29. PhillyBuc Says:

    You know the refs are stacked against you when you get a personal foul 15 yarder for inappropriate language?!? Never heard that one called before

  30. Ray Says:

    Of course the fix was in. It’s obvious!! Do you honestly think it would be good business to let a small market like Tampa snap the saints home win record?? Ummm, Tampa Bay is a bigger market than New Orleans. Much bigger. –Joe

    This is a profit sharing league and none of the Channels espn cbs nbc or fox will tell you about refs fixing games BC they give the NFL billions of dollars a year in revenue generated on their networks for NFL games. The steelers v bucs game last week was another questionable called game.

  31. Ray Says:

    I’m guessing that’s why we get SO many prime time games and every game is sold out. It’s gonna be funny to watch how many black shirts in the stands when the saints come to town. In terms of economic indicators the Saints have the same amount of TV population and have more markets than the bucs do (13) v (5) btw WHEN ARE THE BUCS GOING TO GET A RADIO AFFILIATE IN ORLANDO (60 miles away)???

  32. Joe Says:

    In terms of economic indicators the Saints have the same amount of TV population and have more markets than the bucs do (13) v (5) btw

    Not even remotely close.

    Tampa Bay is the No. 13 market.

    New Orleans is No. 51.

  33. Ray Says:

    Ratings my friend.. Ratings (how the networks make money) not MARKET SIZE.. % of Tvs tuned into the game(s). The saints have one of the highest ratios in the league.