Why No Depth?

September 22nd, 2013

To paraphrase popular sports radio and television personality Adam Schein, if Luke Stocker is the answer, Joe would like to know the question.

Bucs coach Greg Schiano loves competition. So much so it has gotten him into trouble in the public eye over Josh Freeman, when Schiano said he wanted competition at all positions.

Schiano is still trying to backtrack from that statement nearly a year later.

Even for a coach who craves competition, there isn’t depth at receiver or tight end. As Joe pointed out earlier, this falls squarely on the front office. And it cost the Bucs dearly today.

Yes, Joe knows there were high hopes for Tom Crabtree (18 career receptions) at tight end. He’s a vicious blocker who showed good hands in training camp and preseason. But he is hurt and it is unknown when he will return (Joe saw him in the locker room last week and he was limping).

Joe also understands that tight end is not a prime targeted position in Mike Sullivan’s offense, but does that mean you have to count on a backup like Luke Stocker? This guy has shown little to nothing in his NFL career, other than he can get hurt. Joe understands football is a nasty game, but you simply cannot help any team out if you are in street clothes.

It is baffling that the Bucs couldn’t find depth/competition better than Stocker, who is just a step above camp meat.

Same with wide receivers. So Kevin Ogletree was the big pick-up? Mr. Michael Clayton II? There weren’t other receivers out there to be had? The Patriots had rookie wide receivers today that shamed the Bucs starting receivers. Geez.

Today, that oversight or indifference to the depth of the passing game came back to haunt the Bucs big time, and likely will for the rest of the season.

43 Responses to “Why No Depth?”

  1. Eternally Optimistic Homer Says:

    I can’t stand Ogletree and never felt he should have made the final cut.

    Eric Page showed a few things as depth though. We still need a true #3 but lets be honest, they had a lot of WRs to choose from in camp. None of them were very good.

  2. BamBamBuc Says:

    No, no, no. We have TOO much talent on this team to be losing… it is ALL Freeman’s fault!

  3. BFFL Says:

    All I heard this off season was how much talent this team has but I knew better. Way too many holes. What a joke. This is one of the worst offenses I ever had the displeasure of watching.

  4. MadMax Says:

    So……how much can we get for Freeman? the 3rd we lost on the Revis trade? Maybe a magical 4th?

  5. FanofJoeBucsFan Says:

    Joe, I agree with you in that I’m not calling for Schiano’s head, however, we both agree something must be done. Why did the Glazers hire Schiano? We all know he was the second choice after Chip Kelly…yes..but why? He wasn’t a proven winner. He knew how to scout talent but he could not translate that into w’s.

    Thankfully we’re not the Browns fan base, but I along with the fan base am pretty fed up with this nonsense. The Glazers better take notice and hope Mike Tomlin is available after the season. This is pathetic. Now your articles are comparing Raheem Morris, an absolute great guy, but terrible coach, to this drill sargent.

    This team deserves better. These fans deserve better. Tampa deserves better.

  6. Couch Fan Says:

    You would be lucky to get a 7th for such a crappy QB

  7. MadMax Says:

    True that Couch, lol.

  8. buc4lyfe Says:

    freeman kept driving us down the field until our starters got hurt…we went on the first 80yd drive i’ve seen this year and couldnt finish it off. last year we were talking about being worried of running doug martin into the ground but he’s in on almost every play so what was the point of having a 3rd down back competition. Last year you used Mossis Madu but this year you got two back ups worthy of 3rd down play and rest for martin. both of them came in today and made great plays, i cant think of any player in the nfl being ok with 1 play a game.

    We have Drama for the first time in our history because we have a college coach that sucks. I bet Raheem Morris and Ronde Barber are laughing at schiano right now….

  9. Capt. Tim Says:

    This team is built like a movie Facade. If you look at the front lines- it looks like a real good football team. But if you look behind the the facade- there is nothing there.

    Who the hell is Tim Wright?? Why is he on the field?? Is he from Rutgers?
    If Williams and Jackson are hurt( like today), the Ogletree is our top guy?? Shouldn’t a Reciever know how to catch? And our Punt returner is next up?

    We had no one to rotate at tackle, once Gibson was hurt. We slid a couple Des in there- but by the 3rd quarter, it showed. Without McCoy- who starts at DT( bet it’s a Rutgers guy)

    So, oh stupid zombies of the Glennon clan- who does Freeman have to throw to?

    I said all preseason- we needed a TE and A slot Reciever. Amazing that everyone else figured it out only 6 months later!

    Usually everyone is a year behind me!!!

    I pray they trade Josh this week
    1)he doesn’t deserve this. Plus I’ll enjoy watching him come back, and whip ass. Then I’ll get to futher degrade the Glennon zombies( as I did when Williams and Young were ran out of town)
    2) Glennon will get to play- horribly. We’ll get the top pick. Plus more importantly, the clueless, blind, and hateful Glennon crowd will finally get their young savior(lmao). That will shut up most of the idiots on this post in one fell swoop. Then the intelligent fans here can lament 3 more years of “rebuilding” with a new coach/GM/Qb, without some idiot chirping” Glennon constantly!
    3)as was said repeatedly today, on all media outlets and avenues- “Something is seriously wrong in Tampa” it’s not the QB, Coach? Or GM.
    It’s all damn 3 of them. 2 are determined to turn this into Rutgers south. One is being played out of position so badly that he’s given up,

    The team has lost all faith in all 3.

    Time for an experienced NFL coach and GM- and sadly to look for a new QB. Hopefully we don’t ruin this one!!

  10. Ryan Says:

    buc4lyfe, I couldn’t agree more. Even Gruden knew how to control the locker room.

    I sincerely hope the Glazers are reading these posts on joebucsfan.com because they should take notice: We’re fed up. Not with the team – no. We want a coaching change. NOW.


    #MikeTomlinNextHeadCoach ??

  11. lightningbuc Says:

    Said it a million times, I’ll say it again. The alleged “rock star” is great at signing the sexy free agents, but awful at assembling an entire 53 man roster.

  12. Capt. Tim Says:

    Bet Cleveland would give us at least a first round pick.
    And with an experienced NFL coach( Freeman has played for two bad rookies so far!), I bet he’s worth every bit of it.

    Send in the clowns!! Wright, Glennon, Ogletree, and whatever Rutgers alum plays DT!! Time for an overhaul.

    Draft talk starts Monday! Who’s are Next QB to be??

  13. Capt. Tim Says:

    And isn’t the Glennon clan the same zombies who argued that Trent Richardson was the greatest football player since Jim Brown?? Lmfao!!

    Um. No. Hasn’t done anything. And got traded.
    Usually don’t trade messiahs!!lol

  14. Meh Says:

    Because we can’t draft?

  15. Jim Says:

    Why would the Bucs NOT want to factor a TE in the offense? Ya think Jimmy Graham helps the Saints and Tony Gonzales adds to the Falcons success?

    This coaching staff is a joke!

  16. Free's A Boob Says:

    Captain Tim,
    No team will offer much of anything for a QB who has 13 games left under contract let alone a first or second. We’d be lucky to get a ham sandwich for him.

  17. Bobby Says:

    There are so many things the Bucs need but TE and a legitimate 3rd receiver are at the top. I really don’t even have a problem with them starting Glennon against Arizona. It’s not that I think Freeman is really playing all that poorly but the chemistry just doesn’t seem to be there and sometimes a change can provide a spark. Nothing is working. The receivers are dropping passes. The kicker is missing kicks. It is NOT clicking.

    It’s obvious that Freeman is not going to be here next year. I hate that because I don’t think the fans realize how much of a set back that is going to be for this team. I am doubtful that Glennon is the answer and that means we have to either bring in a veteran (who do YOU know that is going to be on the market that is the kind of QB that all the fans are screaming for?) So we start over again at QB.

    What that really means is we are going to have to draft a QB and in order to get a good one we are going to have to draft high. This is going to be a deep QB class with some good QB’s but Bridgewater is the one everyone wants. After that it’s Manziel, McCarron, Aaron Murray, Taj Boyd, Braxton Miller, Mariota, Hundley, Carr, & Morris.

    I’m guessing that we will see Glennon soon. We have to find out if he can be a franchise QB. It may not happen till after the bye but I am convinced it’s going to happen. We would almost have to win out for Freeman to have a chance of being here next year and we all know that ain’t gonna happen. If he does NOT provide a spark to the offense we could be drafting ahead of Jacksonville next year which is scary. I doubt if that will happen but it is possible.

    Today while I was watching the offense and seeing the offense get in gear and then stall time after time I just came to the conclusion tht regardless of whether it’s all Freeman’s fault or not (i.e. dropped passes, penalties, etc.)
    if the offense is not clicking with him behind center then ultimately it falls on him because he has to be able to command the offense and rally the team. He has to be a consummate leader and just will the team down the field. I’ve seen him do it in spurts but I think it’s been more on ability than on leadership. When his skills fail him he doesn’t have the leadership skills to continue to make the team believe in him. This team needs a leader that will take control of the offense. I’m not on the Glennon bandwagon but I am not on the Freeman bandwagon either. I think the answer will be in the draft.

  18. buc4lyfe Says:

    Even i know that if you play off rookie wideouts against a qb like tom brady that it doesnt matter how much pressure you get, it an easy quick 5 yard strike. study the tape, i gotta study the tape. ok well they studied the tape and made changes that made the offense worse. Schiano lost more games for us then Freeman did. 0-5 in games decided in the last moments…each of those games freeman was on the sideline with the lead when we lost. but no one is asking themselves why were the only team that hardly ever has a wide open receiver, this predictable offense is too easy to game plan for and it’s obvious to every team in the league we dont know how to make half-time adjustments. i knew it was over in the 2nd quarter when brady figured out the defense because they refused to adjust to what they saw. like lavonte said, he just calls the plays they give him

  19. AmbushBuc Says:

    Dominick is just a horrible GM. Good GMs make those solid 2nd tier FA signings that bolster depth. We have no depth at ANY position because Domnick has wrapped all the $ up in a handful of starters and is relying on undrafted street free agents for all our backups.

  20. ctymniak Says:

    There is no depth anywhere. They gave a rookie 4th round pick(Akeem Spence) starting spot on day 3 of the draft. They have given Luke Stocker every shot in the world to play. They just have no depth. Look at the SeaHawks. They are very deep.

  21. Free's A Boob Says:

    We know the following:
    1. At 0-3 the odds of making the playoffs are slim at best.
    2. The odds of Freeman being back next year are the same as #1.

    Give Freeman one more shot, if he fails why not see what Glennon has so we know if we are on a QB quest next year.

  22. buc4lyfe Says:

    wait let me get this right….we want glennon to come in and thinking we’ll get a top pick in the draft with him at qb but he’s better than freeman?

    schiano took a chance on who he considered his guy so his success is tied to glennon just like raheem was tied to freeman, no way do they let him draft another qb.

    If they use a 1st round pick on a qb when we could have gotten a great tight end with our 3rd pick then the entire front office needs to go

  23. jarret Says:

    Bam bam Buc. Ur just an idiot. Stop watching the Bucs cause ur not really a fan.

  24. Adam L. Says:

    It’s because the GM is horrible. Depth is built when your starters are set and when you are a poor evaluator of talent and never get your starters set you can never develop anyone behind anybody. That’s depth.

  25. Eric Says:

    Our first string also sucks. Let’s face it.

  26. MR.T Says:

    The cards at home next week should be our 1st win. If we win convincingly, and we should, then expect Freeman to keep on playing. I doubt though he will be our starter next year unless we go on a terror from here on out, there’s still time to get the ship righted, lets hope they can do it. On another note maybe Eric Page will get the 3rd WR spot, he looked decent today. Don’t want to even talk about the debacle at TE we currently have. At least we appear to gotten the penalties under control, lets hope that continues. All is not lost… yet.

  27. MakaveliTheDon Says:

    I’ve always said weve been too top heavy. So we go out and spend nearly 150mill on 2 DBs. whose idea do you think that was???? who was a DB coach in the NFL before heading back t coach the college ranks??

    Schia-Oh-No wanted his guys, (and who wouldnt want Revis n Goldson), but you have to admit that all that money is taken out of somewhere. And it looks like they took TE and WR depth money to land Schiano’s guys.

    But again, I love those dudes, even though they dissapeared in game 3. It just obviously cost us in WR/TE depth.

  28. Joc Says:

    As long as Dom is the gm we will never be above a 500 team. 5-11 I might have to rethink that at 4-12

  29. Capt. Tim Says:

    If Jackson and Williams are hurt- who does Freeman throw to??!?
    ( crickets)
    We got nobody. As I’ve been screaming for 6 months.

    If McCoy, Landri, and Gibson are out- who plays DT?

    Yeah- I’m sure not seeing us beating the cardinals. The bigger question is- how does a team go into a season, with only Two options for Freeman to throw to??

    And how does anyone say this team is” loaded with Weapons” for Freeman. We had 2 receiving options. Now, we may have none.

    And I was called a hater for pointing it out.

    Lmao. Lots of toys for Freeman!
    Riiiiight! Lol

  30. Adam L. Says:

    What could Tom Brady do with Jackson, Williams, and Martin ?

    I don’t think it’s a question winning the Super Bowl. I think it’s a question if how many.

  31. BamBamBuc Says:

    Brady is in a different scheme that he’s been familiar with for years which is why he’s successful with Edelman and Thompkins, much less Jackson and Williams.

    And yes, jarrett, I’m a complete moron. Total idiot and know nothing about football. Ask anyone here, I’ve been posting for years. They know how football illiterate I am. Many disagree with me, few would say idiot.

    On a side note, the fines and suspensions are working to prevent concussions. On Thompkins first TD, Goldson went to the spot the receiver was going to take him down instead of straight at him and Thompkins cut inside and scored untouched. No risk of concussion when a receiver isn’t touched. The rules work, but the NFL sucks now. I’d rather see the hit and no TD.

  32. MakaveliTheDon Says:

    “As long as Dom is the gm we will never be above a 500 team. 5-11 I might have to rethink that at 4-12”

    soooooo, Dom brings us Dougie Martin, Vinny Jack, Mike Wills, GMC, AC, Akeem Spence, LVD, Mason Seaside Foster, Jonathan Banks, Darelle Revis, Mark Barron, Dashon Goldson the motherfuccin Hawk…..

    that not good enough for you?? not enough ingredients for “the soup”?? no?? ok….

  33. Eric Says:

    Nowhere near good enough.

  34. Capt. Tim Says:

    No, not even close to good enough! Weren’t you watching today
    At TE, we have some unknown Rutgers midget. At Wr, we lined up Kevin” can’t catch” Oglesby and Eric Page( who at least showed signs). Our slot Reciever? Who cares.

    At one point, our DTe were two backup DEs- both undersized and got mauled.

    Yeah. We have some talented starters. We also have people starting who shouldn’t be on the team.

    We only had 2 options in the passing game. Martin proved again today that he can’t catch.

    Now they’re hurt- and we have no one capable of catching a pass.

    And you wanna brag about how great we are? At 0-3

    Gotta be drunk, Stoned, a zombie, or related to Dominick. No one else could be that confused

  35. MakaveliTheDon Says:

    “At TE, we have some unknown Rutgers midget.”

    Well, he’s not really a midget – Tim Wright TE from Rutgers. But who do you think gave him that roster spot?? Could it have been his former Rutgers Head Coach???? The guy is 6’5″, and he couldnt lay out for that pass??????

    Anyways, this past year has shown a shift of personell calls. Schiano is a DB man, he got his guys Revis n Goldson. He got his Rutgers guys, that DT that got injured on like the 3rd play, and that TE Wright who put NO effort into that catch?? Schiano is handing out favors. And we, the fans are paying for it.

    We are, Rutgers South.

  36. OviedoBucsFan Says:

    Bobby Says: I am doubtful that Glennon is the answer and that means we have to either bring in a veteran (who do YOU know that is going to be on the market that is the kind of QB that all the fans are screaming for?)


  37. MakaveliTheDon Says:

    ’87, call me out here! with my tinfoil hat wearin conspiracy theorizin ass..

    Schiano wants that GM spot. Just like his buddy Belicheck. He emulates Belichecks secrecy at pressers. He does a joint practice with Belicheck, a few weeks before he plays him, and asks him what he should be doing. (or so John Lynch said). So of course he wants to be like Bill and play the HC/GM.

  38. OviedoBucsFan Says:

    Okay all jokes a side I know Tebow is not the answer. No tmuch on the Free Agent market either, that leaves the draft. Just not ready to throw in the towel with 13 games still left to play with so much talent.

  39. MakaveliTheDon Says:

    I wouldnt mind Christian Ponder or Jake Locker…. If we get a decent offensive HC. Those guys shouldnt be too pricey, and have a lot of upside.

  40. MakaveliTheDon Says:

    But I know… Those dudes are pretty much locked in..

  41. john Says:

    MakaveliTheDon Says:

    Don> What is are record again??? He has been gm for 5 years are you happy with our DB and WR and pass rush situtation? He had to sign free agents due to his shiet drafts. if i owned the team i would have fired him when he came in and wanted to sign Mike Clayton to a huge contract which he did.

    Martin is really good congrats for hitting on a first round pic with a running back GMC 3rd pick in the draft is solid but how hard is it to hit 3rd pick in draft. Foster is average, I went to bama and we blew it taking Mark over Luke K. Banks jury is out. Love David but again you should hit 1 and 2nd round picks.
    Now go back and google all of doms picks and tell me you are happy.

  42. MakaveliTheDon Says:

    john = ignorant fucck

    Dom got us Dougie, VJ, Mike Wills, GMC, AC, Mason Foster, LaVonte David, Jonathan Banks, Derelle Revis, Mark Barron, Dashon Goldson. And a couple of “maybes”, Carl Nicks, Akeem Spence, Crabtree (cant knock him till you see him).

    Now go back and fondle your mothers nutsack and untangle her balls for her… good boy..

  43. john Says:

    hey don dont ask dont tell right?

    a good gm dosent have to sign free agents. imagine the bucs without any free agents just going on doms drafts? lets review some of these stellar drafts before you moved down from Ohio starting with 09 which had future hall of famers Kyle Moore and Josh Freeman.
    Then 2010 which was the deepest draft in 25 years. You will never be a great team even a 500 team unless you nail drafts especially late round picks. If you are happy with being below 500 you have your GM. You can tell your squad is baddass when the 2nd string during pre season lights people up.
    last years draft had 2 good picks fair enough credit where it is due but what about the late round and we blew it with Baron not taking Luke and i bleed crimson. below is why we are 7 games under 500 since don has taken over

    1 Josh Freeman QB Kansas State
    3 Roy Miller DT Texas
    4 Kyle Moore DE USC
    5 Xavier Fulton T Illinois
    7 E.J. Biggers CB Western Michigan
    7 Sammie Stroughter WR Oregon State

    1 Gerald McCoy DT Oklahoma
    2 Brian Price DT UCLA
    2 Arrelious Benn WR Illinois
    3 Myron Lewis CB Vanderbilt
    4 Mike Williams WR Syracuse
    6 Brent Bowden P Virginia Tech
    7 Cody Grimm LB Virginia Tech
    7 Dekoda Watson LB Florida State
    7 Erik Lorig DE Stanford

    1 Adrian Clayborn DE University of Iowa
    2 Da(Quan Bowers DE Clemson University
    3 Mason Foster LB University of Washington
    4 Luke Stocker TE University of Tennessee Moved up with a 4th Round pick in 2012 to Philadelphia Eagles
    5 Ahmad Black S University of Florida
    6 Allen Bradford RB USC
    7 Anthony Gaitor CB Florida International University
    7 Daniel Hardy TE Idaho University

    Mark Barron SS University of Alabama Traded down from 5th pick to 7th pick from Jacksonville Jaguars
    1 Doug Martin RB Boise State
    2 Lavonte David OLB Nebraska
    5 Najee Goode ILB West Virginia
    6 Keith Tandy CB West Virginia
    7 Michael Smith RB Utah State
    7 Drake Dunsmore TE Northwestern