“He Is Just Missing Something”

July 8th, 2013

The Bucs have a revamped secondary, some talent at linebacker, loads of draft picks on the defensive front line, perhaps a top-five offensive line, stud receivers, and one of the better running backs in the NFL.

Quarterback? It seems many an NFL scribe believes Josh Freeman is a question mark.

Add NFL.com’s Chris Wesseling to the list. He recently appeared with Charlie Bernstein on WHBO-AM 1040 and said the Bucs are on the verge of the playoffs but Freeman’s play will determine how far the Bucs will go and whether they make the playoffs.

“I think they are [a playoff team] in that they are in the category as one of those teams poised to surprise, but I think they are also in the category as one of those teams that will only go as far as their quarterback takes them,” Wesseling said. “So, Jay Cutler, Josh Freeman, Carson Palmer, Sam Bradford, there are a lot of quarterbacks in this group. Are they good enough, can they take it to the next level and become that franchise quarterback?

“[Freeman] is just missing something. He’s not accurate enough, I don’t think. Way too many balls up for grabs. So he is missing something, but he has all the physical ability you would want. My gut tells me he’s not ever going to become that franchise quarterback. But he is just good enough where the Bucs are not going to find someone better easily.

“Reading between the lines as an outsider, it seems like [Bucs rock star general manager] Mark Dominik is a Freeman believer and [Bucs coach Greg] Schiano is a skeptic still, he just wants Freeman to prove he is the answer. And I don’t disagree with that. He does have to prove that. I understand Schiano’s position there.”

Joe cannot disagree wholly with Wesseling. Freeman may not be Ben Roethlisberger, but what quarterback available would be a better option than Freeman? The fact he is going into the final season of his contract speaks volumes. The Bucs did not lock up Freeman to a team-friendly pact.

Still, this season marks some stability for Freeman. One would think he can’t help but improve. With loads of toys to play with, a second year with Mike Sullivan as his coordinator, a second year with Vincent Jackson and Doug Martin, Joe really cannot see how Freeman stumbles this season.

If he does regress, it’s likely he will be wearing a different color jersey in 2014. A lot rides of Freeman’s shoulders this year, both for his teammates and his career.

109 Responses to ““He Is Just Missing Something””

  1. WestCoastBucsFan Says:

    “Freeman may not be Ben Roethlisberger but what quarterback available would be a better option than Freeman?”

    Thank you. Freeman is far from perfect but he is still the best option RIGHT NOW. 2013 and beyond is a different story.

  2. Buc'n Junkie Says:

    Pretty much sums it up. It’s a wait and see at this point.

  3. Buc'n Junkie Says:

    Here’s a hypothetical question.

    If the Bucs were to release Freeman right now, how many teams would line-up to stake a waiver claim on him?

  4. robert Says:

    @ junkie

    Who the F*&$ cares?????? that’s like keeping a skank GF because your afraid someone else would have her.

    that’s loserville.

    I will admit (ducks for cover) that jfro, 6 pack is our best bet RIGHT NOW. That’s not to say Glennon may not be @ some point this season.

    The thing that scares me about Glennon is that he has that Chris Simms boy look about him. I know that’s stupid to say, but it is what it is. tired of potential………show potential and fire and build from there.

  5. tampabaybucfan Says:

    Brad Johnson wasn’t exactly elite….and we got the job done with an outstanding defense. Trent Dilfer won with the Ravens defense.
    I actually think Freeman is better than both of them if the gameplan for him is right.

  6. robert Says:

    Dilfer got lucky…….I will give you jfro 6 pack is better

    but not the bull. he had brains, braun and was an EXCELLENT game manager. he could pick apart defenses with a very limited offense (talent and playbook….it was ALL dink and dunk) and move the chains.

    bull was night and day better than jfro. I would take him over jfro in a minute wth this talent level on the O

  7. Steve Says:


  8. bucfanjeff Says:

    Glennon would be lucky to sniff Freemans jock in year 1.

    Wesseling is another “prognosticator” playing parrot and repeating what he hears others say.

    Camp can’t start soon enough.

  9. Biff Barker Says:

    The Bull was cerebral and efficient with the football despite the problems had with his shoulder.
    To say Freeman is better than Johnson was is absurd.

  10. WestCoastBucsFan Says:

    I would rather have an “enigma” than a “Mark Sanchez” any day and twice on Sunday. An enigma means it is undecided whether he is a good QB or not. There are plenty of teams that would rather have an “enigma” than a Carson Palmer, Kevin Kolb, or Brandon Weeden.

    Sure a proven elite QB would be great but until one falls out of the sky lets not drive our “enigma” of a QB away for a bad one.

  11. tampabaybucfan Says:

    Brad Johnson was a journeman QB….granted….great experience and good at dink & dunk…..but I still don’t think he has the talent of freeman…..The bottom line was the TB defense. Give Freeman that defense and K. Johnson over the middle & we have a winner right now.
    Obviously hypothetical argument. Johnson vs. Freeman…two completly differnt styles & experience comparisons.

  12. robert Says:

    @ TBBF

    jfro 6 pack can’t throw over the middle.

    and WC…. jfro is the next Sanchez, the only thing missing is a video of him shaking his booty smoking an e cigarette.

    write it down.

  13. WestCoastBucsFan Says:

    EXCELLENT game manager

    Am I the only one that finds it funny that ^this^ is supposed to be a complimentary trait? Since when is “game manager” a quality to seek in QBs?

  14. WestCoastBucsFan Says:


    write it down.

    I did. I write down all of your ignorant statements so that I may come back after the season and embarrass you. I just hope you are man enough to stick around and eat your own words. I certainly will if I am wrong.

  15. Buc Fan #238 Says:

    So you want a QB who can’t manage the gameplan like Josh?

  16. robert Says:


    this is the stupidest thing I have read in some time, and I somehow feel dumber having just read it.

    any QB should be a good game manager. that’s just one of jfro’s issues, and now I see your football IQ shining through.

    Of course the GREATS can sling it, and go on the gun……but when it comes to the wire,…….they better be able to be a GAME MANAGER!

  17. RachelWatson'sthong Says:

    WCBF, when it has a Super Bowl ring, dipshit.

  18. WestCoastBucsFan Says:

    I have never heard anyone describe Tom Brady or Peyton Manning as “excellent game managers”.

    My football IQ is shining through? Says the guy that thinks reading a defense is as easy in real life as it is in a video game. Okay.

  19. tampabaybucfan Says:

    My point on Johnson is that he was a 9th round draft pick and spend many years as a backup before becoming a starter. He had a world of experience before his SB year with the Bucs.
    I am not saying he wasn’t a good QB…just not elite and I think Freeman is better at this stage of his career (4years) than Johnson was. Time will tell….but I think Freeman will prove himself.

  20. robert Says:

    Manning and Brady are the ultimate game managers…..

    they know what time is on the clock, when to audible and to which play, when to be risky and when to throw it away, they even know you don’t hand the ball off on 3rd and long when your headset goes out.

    and sometimes they even know when to tell the coach STFU (Manning) and stay on the field on 4th down.

    managing, command of the offense, intelligence…… call it what you will.

    what it’s not is dear in the head lights look, and golly josh why did that happen look jfro 6 pack has on his face every time things heat up…

  21. Andrew 1 Says:

    Freeman will be just fine. I worry more about the D line than anything else.

  22. thomas 2.2 Says:

    Every expert or authority on the subject feels the same way as Wesseling and Jaworski etc – Freeman is an elite talent that is flawed with his accurracy and decision making.

    He is one of the league’s worst in passing under pressure – which is why most fans want him to run more frequently – they subconsciously recognize that he struggles passing under pressure.

    So what will defenses do? pressure him more and more.

    I was once a shameless Josh supporter – because he became decent relatively quickly. Now I believe that time has passed for him to overcome these flaws and elevate into a top 10 QB. Either he does it this year or adios!

  23. Buddah Says:

    In all fairness, Joe, why don’t you ever post the experts” who think highly of Freeman. yesterday KC Joyner, ESPN’s most esteemed NFL stats analyst posted a very informative and detailed analysis of the Buccaneers in which he all but predicted that they would make the playoffs. Her is some of that report:

    Josh Freeman is a very talented quarterback who takes a lot of criticism, in part because expectations for him are so high, but he is currently much closer to being an elite QB than he is given credit for.
    Freeman’s 2.0 percent mark in the bad decision rate metric (BDR) was only two-tenths of a percentage point behind Aaron Rodgers in this category and was equal to Matt Ryan’s total. (Note: BDR measures how often a passer makes a mental error that leads to a turnover opportunity for the opposing team).
    2012 season by route depth level
    Route depth level Matt Ryan Josh Freeman
    Short (up to 10 yds) 6.2 6.3
    Medium (11-19 yds) 10.9 10.1
    Deep (20-29 yds) 11.6 14.9
    Bomb (30+ yds) 16 12.2
    Overall total 7.5 7.3
    The Ryan comparison is quite apt in that BDR was not the only metric area where Freeman’s numbers were in many ways equal to or very close to equal to Ryan’s.
    Check out how their respective YPA totals by route depth compared last season (table on right).
    Freeman pretty much kept pace with Ryan at every route depth level.
    These numbers are even more amazing when considering Ryan was throwing passes to Julio Jones, Roddy White and Tony Gonzalez, a trio that could make a strong case for being the best one-two-three combination in the NFL.
    By contrast, Freeman’s primary targets were Vincent Jackson, Mike Williams and Dallas Clark. Jackson is one of the best wide receivers in the league, but Williams is a definite step down from the White/Jones tier and Clark was so subpar that he is currently not on an NFL roster. It speaks volumes for Freeman’s performance that he could keep up with Ryan despite this vast difference in primary pass-catcher quality, although he will need to cut down on his interception total (17) from last season.
    As good as the Bucs were at moving the ball, they were even better at stopping opposing teams from running the football. Tampa Bay led the league in rushing yards allowed per game (82.5) and yards per rush (3.5), and allowed only four of its opponents to top the 100-yard rushing threshold in a single game last season.
    It would seem as if the strengths listed above would have been enough for this club to contend for the playoffs, but they were offset last season by one of the worst pass defenses in pro football.
    Note Joyner’s conclusion:

    “He (Freeman) is much closer to being an ELITE quarterback than he is being credit for.” I am so sick of these subjective evaluations by so called experts and trolls who give their opinion based on no data. Freeman marched the team down the field in the 4th quarter against Washington for what looked like the winning field goal before the defense let RG loose with no time left. He marched the team for two late touchdowns against New Orleans and had them on the 7 yard line only to be frustrated by Williams mental error–stepping on the line. He marched the team for the go ahead touchdown with under two minutes left against Philadelphia only to have the secondary allow a ridiculous rally be a rookie quarterback. He marched the team down for the go ahead score against Atlanta only to have the defense fail to stop Matt Ryan in the last three minutes. Thgose four games alone were the difference between 7-9 and 11-5. None of those games can be put on Freeman. Yes, he had lousy games against the Saints on the road and the Rams at home–Eli, Drew Brees and even Brady had two really terrible games each last year. The NFL season is long and psychologically demanding. It’s really tough to be brilliant every week. If the criterion is going to be perfection then let’s get rid of him now, but the fact is he’s “a very talented quarterback” with “high expectations.” All of the objective data suggests that he is way above average and we should all be rooting for him to have a great season.

  24. Joe Says:

    In all fairness, Joe, why don’t you ever post the experts” who think highly of Freeman. yesterday KC Joyner, ESPN’s most esteemed NFL stats analyst


  25. Tye Says:

    “My gut tells me he’s not ever going to become that franchise quarterback.”

    Wesseling is not alone in the way he feels about JF… I believe JF becoming a disappointment (or rather continuing to be) is just a foregone conclusion… I am more intrigued about who will be replacing him and how soon… If GM Dominik can find the Bucs a decent or better QB, that QB will have a great advantage having a good o-line and weapons around him to achieve early success… JF just isn’t capable….

    Great teams that have the reputation as winners aren’t teams that the QB is 1 of their weakest players.

  26. Buc'n Junkie Says:


    ” that’s like keeping a skank GF because your afraid someone else would have her.”


    You really are ignorant. What does your stupid little analogy have anything to do with the question that I asked?

    I think you just spew off stupid and dumb crap like that just to be provocative. You think your smart, but to the rest of us, you come across as an idiot.

  27. WestCoastBucsFan Says:

    I actually agree with thomas 2.2. Freeman certainly struggled under pressure. That needs to improve. I know some (one) of you would rather see Orlovsky run this team but Freeman is the best option in 2013.


    My point is that while Brady and Manning are great game managers, it is not their defining quality. Nobody says “Tom Brady, the greatest game manager in the league”. If people are talking about the ability to manage a game, it is usually because a QB lacks big play ability.

  28. BigMacAttack Says:

    The only thing Josh Freeman is “missing” right now is a football because nothing is going on. I will reserve judgement on Josh until he takes the field. It is a new set of circumstances and criticizing Josh on last year’s play is totally legit. But that doesn’t mean anything. I watch good baseball teams get blown out one night and win big the next 3 nights. We all know josh needs more consistency but tell me something I don’t know. These guys all think they can predict the future, but they’re always hedging their bets. Just say what you have to say and be done with it. Otherwise shut the f#%k up> No one knows how Josh will perform. The Bucs obviously know more than any mouth of the south. They see him practice. They know if he is more adapted to the system and either like their chances or they don’t. I personally like our chances and feel pretty good about Josh because of his supporting cast. I think he has a complete team that can carry each other including him.

  29. Macabee Says:

    Oh!!! This such an easy thing for any analyst to say because it’s being said about pretty much every starting QB in the league not named Brady, Brees, or Manning of the one named Peyton. Joe Flacco won the SB last year and they’re saying it about him too!

    Of course it’s true that Freeman’s play will determine whether we go to the playoffs or not. If you’re reading the same reviews I am, there are about 10 or 12 other QBs that are in “prove it” years. This is a big deal for us because Josh is our QB and we haven’t won anything lately. We’d better hope he has a good year, because if we start over, it may be an even longer time before we see the promised land.

    It took the Houston Texans 20 years to get to the playoffs and for the 2 years they’ve made it they haven’t gone anywhere. You think their fan base is anymore happy with Matt Schaub than we are with Josh Freeman? Imagine how the Charger fans feel about their “elite” QB Phillip Rivers.

    Whether you like Freeman or not, if you’re a Buc fan, you should be pulling for him. I know I been a Buc fan for 37 years and it could be a lot worst!


  30. Andrew 1 Says:

    the term “game manager” refers to a QB who can only take what the defense gives him because hes not talented enough to dictate his own terms to a defense. for example he will use the easy short passes instead of taking a chance on the home run ball. a “game manager” plays not to loose, instead of trying to win. certainly Tom Brady and Payton Manning don’t qualify as “game managers”.

  31. Yeah It's me! Says:

    Freeman will prove he is better than B Johnson this year.He already broke most of his regular season records like TD’s, Passing Yds. I cant wait for the season to start just to stop hearing all the Freeman talk.Six solid months of the same talk over and over and over about Freeman is taking it’s toll on me.It will keep going till the season is almost over.And Josh proves himself to all the doubters.Which he will.

  32. Free's A Boob Says:

    What’s he missing? A brain.

  33. Couch Fan Says:

    ^^ I knew that was coming at some point Lol

  34. WestCoastBucsFan Says:

    From the piece Macabee linked to:

    In order for Flacco to lead the Ravens to another Super Bowl run, he will need to play with more consistency and look for a way to improve his composure whenever the pressure is in his face.

    Sound familiar?

  35. Jimmy Says:

    Josh Freeman’s nickname should be “tent.” Why? Because he folds like one under pressure. Any drunk fan in the upper deck can see this.

    You clowns hate on Shaun King. He’s done more than Freeman ever will.

  36. Joe Says:

    West Coast:

    Last week you used a Drew Brees analogy with Josh Freeman.

    This week you use a Joe Flacco analogy (five seasons, five playoff berths).

    What crazy analogy will you make next week for Freeman, Tom Brady?

  37. Couch Fan Says:


    Dont forget the comparison to Favre as well!

  38. WestCoastBucsFan Says:


    You miss the point entirely with those analogies. In neither was I saying Freeman was skilled comparably to these quarterbacks.

    When speaking on Brees I mentioned that if an elite QB can’t overcome a terrible defense then how can a “lesser” QB in Freeman overcome an even worse defense? That was my comparison. It is not absurd to compare two players that play the same position. Analysts do it every day.

    On Flacco, I simply quoted an article and asked a question. I was making the point that even elite QBs have trouble with consistency.

    In neither of these cases was I comparing Freeman’s ability, purely as a QB, to those of Flacco or Brees in terms of talent level.

    I am sorry if you misinterpreted that way.

    (Also, I never mentioned Favre.)

  39. tampabaybucfan Says:

    We really need to hear from Shaun King on this….beacause….

    “Shaun King, one of two Buc Quarterbacks that lost a NFC Championship Game when his defense gave up 11 or fewer points.”

  40. chris Says:

    He is missing something: Consistency. Josh Freeman CAN be accurate. Some of the throws he makes are ridiculous (the good ones) that only a few NFL players can make in this league. AKA. That dagger to williams on the sideline throwing a perfect laser against the Giants between the CB and Safety. Or the Game tieing pass to Jackson against Carolina.

    However, then he throws balls that make you shake your head.

    Josh needs to find consistency. Jaws labled him best: Enigma. He’s either Dr. Jeckyl or Mr. Hyde.

  41. Buc'n Junkie Says:


    The fact is that Brady and Manning are 10 and 12 years older than Freeman respectively.

    Brady sat on the bench behind Bledsoe for a year before he became the starter after Bledsoe was injured. He has been in the same system since he was drafted and had the same OC for 4 years at the beginning of his career. (Charlie Weis)

    Peyton Manning up until last year also was in the same system and had a terrible first year as a starter and he had the same OC for 3 years at the beginning of his career (Jim Caldwell).

    In all fairness this is Freeman’s first time of being in the same system two years in a row.

    There can be no true comparison at this point.

  42. PRBucFan Says:

    He has to improve to remain our guy,
    it’s not just a matter of whether he regresses or doesn’t regress.

    He must improve and show that he can be that guy all season long.

    I won’t stress either way cause the answer will come in time and so will our QB but hopefully JF shows he can be that guy.

  43. Buddah Says:


    I’m surprised at you. Have you never heard of KC Joyner. Go to ESPN Insider. He’s there top stats Guru and has written bopoks on NFL and College Football stats. Yesterday, he had a great article–better than anything posted on here in weeks–titled “Why the Tampa Bay Buccaneers can make the playoffs,” which I’m sure posters on this site would appreciate reading. He compared Freeman’s stats FROM LAST YEAR and concluded that he was only a shade less effective than Matt Ryan. You can read the rest of the article on ESPN insider. I think he shows conclusively that Tampa’s problems in the last half of the season had less to do with Freeman than with the defensive secondary. Joyner is very sharp and insists on data to back up his opinions.

  44. Buddah Says:

    Yeah, they said that about Terry Bradshaw too–no brain–and he’s got four super bowl rings. His first four or five years he was benched repeatedly and considered a bust. Look up his career stats and you’ll find that his completion percentage was about 51% for his career.

  45. PRBucFan Says:

    Joe Says:
    July 8th, 2013 at 5:22 pm
    West Coast:

    Last week you used a Drew Brees analogy with Josh Freeman.

    This week you use a Joe Flacco analogy (five seasons, five playoff berths).

    What crazy analogy will you make next week for Freeman, Tom Brady?

    To this I say thank you Joe!!! lol smh.
    You don’t compare two different talents and apply external factors to them as if they are affected mutually.

  46. Pewter_Power Says:

    I think Freeman will break out this year. At the start of the 2007 season Giants fans wanted to run Eli Manning out of town. Now? Not so much. Not every guy that comes into yhe league blows up right away, and I guarantee guys like Wilson and Kaepernick come crashing down to Earth this year.

  47. Andrew 1 Says:

    anyone who thinks Freeman is a bad QB need only look at some past bucs games on youtube with Trent Dilfer as our QB. Dilfer makes Freeman look like Joe Montana.

  48. PRBucFan Says:

    It’s his 5 year the high expectations THIS season are justified.

    Hopefully your right.

  49. PRBucFan Says:


  50. Buc'n Junkie Says:

    If it means anything WCBF, I understood your analogy.

  51. Bobby Says:

    Funny….Brad Johnson gets a super bowl ring on the back of his defense and we don’t get to the playoffs last year on the back of our defense. Let’s face it, if Brad Johnson had our pass defense from last year he would have never kissed the Lombardi trophy. I still say that I’ll take last years Freeman all day long with the pieces that are in place this year. Give me that same Freeman with Nicks and Joseph healthy and the new defense and we will be very hard to beat.

    I watch a lot of football and I don’t think I’ve ever seen a QB that performed well with pressure in his face. Brady certainly doesn’t. Brees doesn’t and Rogers doesn’t either. Why would we think Freeman is going to be any different? The reason Brady and these others put up bigger numbers and complete a higher % of passes is because they get the protection to do so. I look for Freeman to have much better protection this year with the O-line being healthy.

  52. clafollett Says:

    ^^^^^^ Well said BigMac and Mac! Thanks

  53. PRBucFan Says:

    And heck I don’t think asking for a little more consistency and for a season without a “bad stretch” not a bad game, cause that happens, is too high of an expectation.

  54. PRBucFan Says:


    We shall all have our answer after this season.
    No more if, ands, or buts about anything.

    A relief for sure.

  55. clafollett Says:

    ^^^^^^^ Thanks Bobby. Well said.

  56. WestCoastBucsFan Says:

    @Buc’n Junkie

    YES, it makes all the difference as I am starting to wonder whether I am just not conveying what I mean correctly.

    Am I crazy for comparing two players that play the same position? If I say, “Kevin Kolb will never be as good as Tom Brady” is this not comparing the two? What if I said that Drew Brees threw more interceptions than Mark Sanchez? (A true statement by the way.) There is nothing incorrect about that statement. They are both quarterbacks. Not once did I say that Freeman is every bit as good as Flacco or Brees. Not once.


    There is nothing wrong with wanting more consistency. You just have to acknowledge that nearly every single quarterback in the league struggles with consistency. (And yes, in stretches too, Eli Manning had a four game stretch in 2012 with one TD and six INTs.)

  57. BigMacAttack Says:

    Exactly! We will have our answer soon enough. I don’t blame Joe for posting this because there is virtually nothing going on right now. I would prefer to hear these clowns say just that, ” we’re only weeks away and we will see what happens”. Speculating just doesn’t make much sense right now because there is a complete lack of information.

    So look at the 49’rs, under Singletary they slithered down to one of the worst in the league. Harbaugh took over and they skyrocketed to the top. He had mostly the same players but with better coaching and players gaining more experience as well, things turned around. The Ravens could end up in the cellar this year after the Super Bowl. So many things play into this game that our beyond your control. On any day anything can happen. Wind, rain, snow, bad calls, injuries, bad snaps, wrong balls used on kicks, lights go out. Even the head coach can get slammed and the Saints lose. If you think you know, you don’t know dit.

  58. tampabaybucfan Says:

    Does Josh Freeman perform well under pressure?…..No
    Did the TB defense pressure other QBs last year…….No

    There are 4 elements to consider

    Offense (Freeman a part)
    Defense (partly sucked)
    Special Teams (fair/poor)
    Coaching (?)

    Our defense score 3 touchdowns in SB 37 and one in the NFC Championship Game….more in those two games than the entire 2012 season.(3)

    Give Freeman a chance with a great defense and we’ll see!!!

  59. robert Says:

    @ WCB

    “I am starting to wonder whether I am just not conveying what I mean correctly.”

    no, we know exactly what you mean. you have an old jrfo 6 pack jock strap under your pillow, you wear your #5 jersey to bed and cuddle with the autographed helmet.

    we get it.

  60. Hawaiian Buc Says:

    I am hoping more than anything that Freeman has an outstanding year, we re-sign him, and he has an amazing career. If that happens, I think we will all be happy, so we should all hope for it.

    There’s just always something about Freeman that just doesn’t pass the eye test with me. Although he can make throws that no QB we have ever had can make, he makes others that look like I am out there playing QB. He goes into these long funks where he can’t make ANY throws, and every throw you just hope the ball hits the ground (as opposed to being caught by the other team). I don’t think Saints, Broncos, Ravens, Giants, Falcons, and Seahawks fans have that same worry. I hope I’m wrong.

  61. WestCoastBucsFan Says:

    So, you have abbreviated my name as “WCCBF” and “WCB”. Is it really that hard?

    Besides that, I don’t know how much credibility a person that hopes “that jfro doesn’t make it through TC healthy and Glennon gets the snaps” has. I mean seriously? You have openly stated you would take Orlovsky over Freeman. Think about that.

    Oh yeah, and lets not forget that Freeman doesn’t play enough Madden because even YOU can read a defense in a video game.

    I have met some moron’s but you REALLY take the cake robert. Buc’ Junkie had it right when he said:

    You think your smart, but to the rest of us, you come across as an idiot.

  62. WestCoastBucsFan Says:


    I guess I should also add that you mention Freeman’s jock strap A LOT. Seems like a bit of an unhealthy obsession if you ask me.

  63. PRBucFan Says:

    Some more than others, clearly.

    I have never asked for perfection out of Freeman either. Heck I don’t even expect any kind of eliteness or greatness out of him, just consistency.

    And I’m done even entertaining all these QB comparisons lol,
    If their not the Bucs QB, they are of no concern of mine.

  64. Buc1987 Says:

    Holy crap..I leave the house for a few hrs come back online and this thing already has what 60 plus comments. Here we go again. Joe you might want to consider a special site section called Josh Freeman. There the bashers can go on and on and on. I don’t care if Jesus Christ himself writes an article, bashes Freeman and Joe posts it. I like Josh Freeman. The enigma that he is and all. I think he will get it together. This is my last post about Freeman until the season starts. Let WestCoast and Buc’n Junkie take the punishment. I’m out of it.

  65. BuccaneerBonzai Says:

    robert, you are very rude.

    If you were better mannered you might be permitted to come out from under your bridge once in a while.

    Frankly, I don’t care what the media thinks. Come the season they’ll be quieted about Freeman. You’ll probably pick a different player to blame for all the bad things and wait for Freeman to make any mistakes at all.

  66. BuccaneerBonzai Says:

    Joe, I sent you a link to a positive Josh Freeman story over the weekend.

  67. WestCoastBucsFan Says:

    I hear you Buc1987 but I bleed pewter. Try as I may, I don’t have the self discipline to just allow ignorant statements to go unanswered.

    AND, every once in a while there is an entertaining debate. Today, unfortunately, consists of grown men trying to talk about football and children (robert) doing their best to grab attention in the form of insults.

  68. Macabee Says:


    I admire your determination to get others to see your point of view. I hope you don’t begin to take it personal when they appear to reject common truths, because it’s just part of what you should expect when you enter a public forum. I read all of your comments and you are very intelligent and most of your daily nemeses are also. I read their comments too.

    They understand what you are saying. They simply want a winner, someone to lead them out of this 7 year absence from the playoffs. There is a minority that for whatever reasons will never like Freeman. Brady, as consistent as he is, has his detractors too.

    There is an even smaller minority who mean no harm, they’re website jesters and are just having fun. With a Laptop, a tablet, a smartphone, a Gmail and a couple of Verizon E-Mail addresses, you can hold a conversation with yourself. In other words, the interwebs allow you to feel strongly both ways if you care to. Lol. So you never know who you’re talking to.

    So don’t take everything that’s said seriously and never stop voicing your opinion. After all, it’s your right! And count on it, your nemeses as I call them, will be there tomorrow and the next day too. And if Freeman wins the Super Bowl, they will simply change their names and continue the rhetoric. After all, it’s their right too!

  69. Buc1987 Says:

    @Macabee…good post!

  70. Joe Says:

    I’m surprised at you. Have you never heard of KC Joyner. Go to ESPN Insider.

    Nope. Joe doesn’t do BSPN aside from a handful he trusts. Joe doesn’t do BSPN Insider (Joe will be damned if he’s giving the four-letter cash) and Joe is adverse to stat geeks. Never heard of this guy before.

    Joe has heard of Tom Joyner and Wally Joyner, not K.C. Joyner.

  71. WestCoastBucsFan Says:

    A great post Macabee. I don’t comment in any other public forum NEARLY as much. I really love football and I am passionate about this team and, being stuck on the “WestCoast”, this is the entirety of my Buc’s discussion for the day, everyday. I understand there are trolls and (usually) I can identify them and ignore them.

    I think BucsNation.com has bit more of a positive bunch of commenters. Although, you can’t get the world class Buc news and analysis you get here anywhere else so I generally resort to debating the frequenters of this site. Trolls and all.

    Not only that but, more importantly, it gets me through the work day! haha.

    Thanks Macabee.

  72. Drew Says:

    Welcome back Thomas 2.2.

  73. Buc'n Junkie Says:

    ^^^ Same goes for me too. Regardless of what abuse I may take, I will always keep coming back. I enjoy blogging with people who share my passion and even with the ones who sometimes would like to rip open their throats and crap down their jugular veins. Just kidding. It’s all in fun. We are all Buc fans regardless of what side of the aisle we stand on.

  74. Buc1987 Says:

    and Adrian Clayborn says…..

  75. Steve Says:

    How will Freeman respond this year? I like Thomas 2,2’s take.

    It is sh!t or get off the pot for Freeman.

  76. Bobby Says:

    Like I said, you guys will be saying Freeman is much better this year even if he has similar stats as last year just because we will win more games with a better defense. I’m not looking for a huge leap for Josh. I think the nature of the team will make him appear to be a lot better. Either way, it works for me.

  77. Andrew 1 Says:

    hang in there guys, just 1 month till preseason lol

  78. Bucfan Says:

    What I want to see freeman do this year:

    1. Cut down on TOs. Improving his decision making and not being hesitant. Cut down from 17 INTs to te 7-12 range.

    2. Improve the completion percentage to about 58-62%. We play in a vertical offense so asking him to hit mid 60% is too much. Make more plays to sustain drives.

    3. Go through progressions. Stay poised. Last yr he lost his composure and confidence when things weren’t going right. Who cares what the defense is doing. Don’t force things and make it worse.

    All this should lead to more points and less pressure on the defense.

  79. grif4foozball Says:

    Bottom line is QB is the leader on every team and his play will dictate and inspire the entire teams,whether it be offense ,defense or S.T.’s.

  80. BamBamBuc Says:

    This is just getting stupid. Simply put… name one QB available to start for the Bucs right now that would be a better option than Freeman. Consistent, inconsistent, doesn’t matter…. Freeman is the best option right now. Next year, who knows, but that’s next year and we don’t even know if Freeman will be consistent this year yet. He may earn the extension and we won’t have to answer this question. Therefore, any and all discussion regarding this is pointless at this time and by the time it’s relevant, we’ll know if we need a QB that is different or not.

    Personally, I have seen enough to be in the group that says he’ll be fine this year and do enough that we won’t even be discussing this next year. If we are, I believe it will be a discussion of “Did the Bucs do the right thing in giving him an extension?” rather than “Who will the next QB be?”. And again, if we’re having the discussion next year of “did they do the right thing?”, it won’t matter because we won’t have that answer for another year or two.

  81. Buc1987 Says:

    Scrolling up it seems Robert is saying that Manning and Brady are the ultimate game managers, and so was Brad. Wrong. Manning and Brady are in the elite category. A game manager dinks and dunks and doesn’t make too many mistakes to hurt the teams natural strength which in Brad’s case was the defense. Brad was a game manager. How often did Trent Dilfer and gang screw things up for the defense? Manning and Brady are the leaders of their team. They can’t make it without them. In our case the entire defense was the leader. Brad was adequate. Something King and Dilfer were not. I’m not mentioning the other f word again. Did Brad earn his ring more than Dilfer did with the Ravens? You bet your ass he did. Loved that pic after the Super Bowl seeing Brad riding on the tea cups at Disney. My point is any adequate mediocre QB would have taken that team to the SB. Brad was certainly not elite. I’ve got your back WestCoast, I’ve not completely gone away. What’s right is right.

  82. Dosta Says:

    Buc’s went to Super Bowl with Brad Johnson as QB.

    Freeman can play as good as Brad Johnson.

    Brad could not throw more than 20 yards with power.

    We should be fine unless Freeman plays like Trent Dilfer no wait Dilfer is
    Super Bowl QB too hmmm.

    Just Say’n

  83. Biggun Says:

    Simply put …. Better defense better Josh… 2012 defense let four games get away from us last year. Do the math with those being WINS that gets you the playoffs and with a makeshift O Line to boot…. We have the right roster we have the right coachs this year and for the next three years it will be NFC South and NFC West as the powerhouse dividsions. Lets get the Lombardi

  84. Buc1987 Says:

    ^^^ I 2nd that

  85. Buddah Says:

    KC Joyner, aka The Football Scientist, is one of the pioneers of the analytical football revolution. He has been a regular contributor to ESPN.com’s NFL and Fantasy Football Insider sections and ESPN The Magazine since 2005 and added college football & NFL Draft duties in 2009. He authored Blindsided, Why The Left Tackle is Overrated and Other Contrarian Football Thoughts and the Scientific Football book series and has written and published annual fantasy football draft guides since 2004.

    He is generally regarded as one of the top three football analysts in the nation.

  86. WestCoastBucsFan Says:

    It seems like more and more people are getting it. Glad to see this isn’t for nothing.

    This is bound to be the most exciting season of Buccaneer football since our Super Bowl thrashing of the Raiders. (You have NO IDEA how awesome that was, living on the West Coast. )

  87. delson Says:

    I agree with everything that i have read of westcoastbucsfan has posted. I get ur analogies and only a smart ass wouldnt. If joe will be bias then maybe this aint the site for buc fans. The point of the analogies from what i understand is that the qbs he used were qbs that faced bad starts to their careers. Do u thinkthe chargers would have kept brees n never spent what they did for rivers? Flacco hasbeen in the playoffs 5 seasons cuz of their defense n a running back who has proved himself. Smells like the bucs right? Besides the infamously tough baltimore defense but is tampas young d shapin up to be like baltimores? I think it is schiano was the fire this team needed n dominik the gm to get big time playmakers. Flacco aint worth the contract his noodle arm got. Playoff time i seen underthrown balls the wr made plays on or the defense tripped on their own shoestrings. Freeman could be or might not be but if u a hater then u feed off the negatives u read about. The same ones u heard them say bout the elite qbs before they became who they are. Probably naive grown children playin fantasy football doin the hatin.

  88. Buc1987 Says:

    ^^^2nd that too

  89. Mr Lucky Says:

    I’ve been saying this about Freeman for the past 3 years.

    Lots of POTENTIAL but he doesn’t have the “it” factor to break thru

    Posing for the ESPN Michael Jackson thing DURING the 4 game losing streak to miss the playoff just showed that…

  90. Joe Says:

    KC Joyner, aka The Football Scientist, is one of the pioneers of the analytical football revolution. He has been a regular contributor to ESPN.com’s NFL and Fantasy Football Insider sections and ESPN The Magazine since 2005 and added college football & NFL Draft duties in 2009. He authored Blindsided, Why The Left Tackle is Overrated and Other Contrarian Football Thoughts and the Scientific Football book series and has written and published annual fantasy football draft guides since 2004.

    Never heard of any of this before this evening.

    You must remember:

    * Joe is suspicious of the stat geeks (Joe learned in high school anyone can prove any premise using stats). Joe greatly prefers X’s and O’s analysis.

    * Joe rarely goes to BSPN.

    * Joe will not give the four-letter outfit a dime of his hard-earned cash for “Insider” tripe when it can be found elsewhere for free.

    * Joe refuses to waste his time with the glorified toilet paper known as “BSPN the Rag.”

    * Joe does not play fantasy football (trust Joe, his “fantasy” has zero to do with football — or baseball — numbers).

  91. BucoBruce Says:

    Glennon is the next Brady mark my words.Damn at the comments,Go Joe

  92. delson Says:

    For the record tho the fantasy football line wasnt directed to joe but the kids who consistently talk about consistency. But i do wanna kno wat ur problem with espn is.

  93. Joe Says:

    But i do wanna kno wat ur problem with espn is.

    LOL Where does Joe start??? 🙂

  94. Andrew 1 Says:

    at the beginning. Im curious to know as well.

  95. delson Says:

    Mrlucky are u a guy who plays a sport recreationally? If u r maybe u shouldnt do it cuz u could break a wrist a leg etc.. and it will affect ur work ur fam cant have that. If u havent noticed celebrities are people and people will do things for fun or business. U r talkin bout a picture! Haha boy wish u were a panther fan.

  96. Buc1987 Says:

    @Mr Lucky you have been saying that he doesn’t have the it factor for 3 yrs now? First of all your full of crap. Not one person thought that after the 2010 season. Okay maybe one…and that was you. Really? Stop LYING!

  97. Joe Says:

    at the beginning. I’m curious to know as well.

    Joe doesn’t feel like typing a 5,000-word diatribe now past midnight on the west coast of the east coast.

  98. Andrew 1 Says:

    that’s understandable. maybe you can write a condensed form and post it tomorrow.

  99. PRBucFan Says:

    Who has called for someone to replace Freeman right now?

    I’m curious whose making that particular argument?

    I am actually rather excited to see what he’s going to produce in this make it or break it season, rooting for him actually (like any Buc fan should be).. It doesn’t mean that I wont be honest with myself and others about what I believe about the young man thus far.

    Believe me, no one would be happier than myself to eat a ginormous plate of crow if he indeed ends up being our QB of the future but as of now I just don’t feel as if I trust Free. Even after 4 seasons. I understand that’s just my opinion and I cannot blame anyone else or dislike anyone else for believing he is the guy. As Macabee stated it’s their right just as I have mine.

    For me, at the end of the day we are all part of BucNation and win, lose, or draw I believe most of us will be here standing supporting this team regardless about what these outcomes end up being. In spite of my doubts about Freeman I do have complete trust in Schiano and in where this organization is heading. I look forward to the journey we are about to take this season no matter where it takes us.

  100. Mean D Says:

    Three important points.

    1) Expert after expert after expert says the same thing about Freeman and the Freeman apologists come up with excuse after excuse after excuse.
    2) Freeman will definitely do better this year and we will win more games this year. But he is still the worst skill position player we have.
    3) WestCoastBucsFan wants to have Freeman’s baby.

  101. Patrick Says:

    Brad Johnson was a much better QB then what people give him credit for.

  102. Raphael Says:

    The only thing Free is missing is a 2nd year in the same system, with the same OC…

  103. Capt. Tim Says:


    Really? Still?
    The only thing sadder, than to keep trying to create a A QB contrversy( like at least 26 other NFL teams are doing!),
    Is that there are so many ignorant posters- that it works! Everytime.

    Guess you gotta do something to keep traffic moving thru here.

    Let me help the really dumb ones(Again).
    In this post, and as a general consensus- Payton Manning is considered possibly the Greatest QB to ever live. Even if you disagree, you would be a fool not to have him in the top 5.

    He has won one Superbowl. Same as Doug Williams. Jim MacMahon. Trent Dilfer. Joe Flacco. Brad Johnson.

    It’s a team game. Period. The QB is one of 22.
    If you give Freeman a great, HEALTHY? Oline, a TE, A slot Wr,
    And the Number defense in the league- we win the Superbowl this year.

    You give him alone full of backups, no TE or SW, and the worst damn nauseating bunch of scrubs for a pass defense?

    We’re lucky to win 6 games.

    It’s just that simple. All you brain dead guys blaming everything, good or Bad,on one guy, are just painfully unaware of how a team works.

    Please!! If you stop stupidly jumping on this cattle food WB nonsense, meybe we can get some real news and injury updates! That would be REAL info!!

    By the way, Joe. While I agree with you about BSPN, the NFL AM show on NFL network ought to be on Logo! It’s the gayest thing I’ve ever seen with”NFL” attached to it.

  104. scubog Says:

    I didn’t read any of these comments because I already know what was said and by whom. How about a moratorium on Freeman articles Joe? Probably won’t matter when no matter what the topic the “JFro Six” will infest the comments section with their juvenile view. Of course now they do it out of habit.

  105. Eric Says:

    All will be solved when our immensely talented team takes the field.

  106. Couch Fan Says:

    Who has called for someone to replace Freeman right now?


    Nobody. It’s the blind, jock riding, leg humping Freeman homers who are blaming all our problems on the defense and then attempting to spin the conversation into something its not by declaring the “haters” are the ones placing all the blame on Freeman and then enlightening us on how bad the defense really is, as if we didn’t already.

    It’s pretty simple. When you have nothing to fall back on, you create a diversion and pretend people said things they didnt say to try to look intelligent.

  107. PRBucFan Says:


    Your absolutely right.


    Ooooh, I see I see … lol

  108. BuccaneerBonzai Says:

    Biggun Says:
    “Simply put …. Better defense better Josh…”

    Along with a healthy offensive line and the second year in an offense.

  109. Biggun Says:

    Nice Josh Hi Lite reel