Josh Freeman Is Here To Stay
December 12th, 2012
Joe remembers just a couple of months ago how a number of loud Bucs fans were so fed up with the struggles of Josh Freeman, they begged for Bucs rock star general manager Mark Dominik to draft West Virginia quarterback Geno Smith next April.
While Joe thought those wishes were outrageous, since, Freeman’s recent freefall has sort of opened Joe’s eyes to why that group of fans wanted so badly to turn the page.
Given Freeman’s struggles, Joe already wrote this will just give Dominik more leverage when/if he extends Freeman’s contract, which is set to expire after the 2013 season. Joe fully expects that to happen.
It seems eye-RAH! Kaufman of the Tampa Tribune is of the same mind. Appearing on the “Booger and Rich Show” on WHFS-FM 98.7 Tuesday, co-hosted by former Bucs defensive tackle Booger McFarland and Rich Herrera, Kaufman confessed that Freeman was so terrible Sunday, it was the first time Kaufman wondered if Freeman will ever be the franchise quarterback the Bucs boast about.
But Kaufman said Freeman isn’t going anywhere and the Bucs are just going to have to learn to deal with Freeman’s moderate peaks and deep valleys.
“Freeman was so inaccurate — I have been a big, big Freeman supporter. I said if he doesn’t come out big by 2010, I don’t know anything about football. So I am not going to be a hypocrite. That is the first time, even with all his problems last year, that he was so bad in Sunday’s first half, that I looked around and said, ‘What is going on with Josh Freeman?’ And don’t think for a second that Mike Sullivan and Greg Schiano weren’t thinking the same thing.
“You can’t go back to the drawing board. Half the teams in this league wish they had Josh Freeman, and that is a fact. You look at teams like the Cardinals — I mean that is a disaster. The Jets, they have absolutely nothing. Look, Freeman had a bad game. Won’t be the first one, won’t be the last one. This kid is going to play. He is not going to be a 68 percent passer. This is not Drew Brees we are talking about. But the kid throws a very good deep ball. He is much respected in the room. He wants to be a leader. He’s bright and I think we have found a new maturity in him. He wants to be outstanding. Unless I am mistaken, you are not going to go out and get someone with the 20th pick in the draft, I am sorry and if there is someone out there in free agency, someone is going to beat you to it. There is not going to be anybody better than Freeman. I’m not breaking the bank on Freeman but I’m not willing to say [the Bucs] made a mistake in 2009. The repercussion of that sets you back another five years.”
As Joe asked Sunday, is Freeman the long-term answer for the Bucs? After the past three weeks, surrounded by all his flashing toys but failing, Joe must answer that he doesn’t know.
But as Kaufman pointed out, just look around at other teams’ quarterbacks. Arizona, San Diego, Jacksonville, Kansas City and the Jets likely would kill to have Freeman. Perhaps even Carolina, Minnesota, Dallas, Oakland and even Houston (yes, Houston) — to name just a handful–might prefer Freeman as their starting signal-caller.
Freeman has every tangible one could ever want in a quarterback. That is not the issue.
Unless Freeman walks after next year — highly unlikely — Freeman will be your starting Bucs quarterback for the foreseeable future.
Dicey accuracy and skittish throws under pressure included.
December 12th, 2012 at 9:14 am
I had this same conversation with a couple of writers yesterday, as I am the resident Bucs fan in the office I was asked WTF happened Sunday? We all came to the same conclusion, no matter what happened with Josh in the 1st half he did what he needed to do in the 2nd half, it was the defense, the Dbs in particular that lost that game, Josh handed the defense an 11 point lead with 6 mins to go, game over, or should have been.
Back to Josh, between two writers and me we came up with a minimum of 10 teams that would sign Freeman the second he became available, no doubt, 10 teams would line up and sign him to a big long term deal today, he’s 24, he’s huge, he can run, he’s coachable, he’s maturing into a leader and has what most QBs don’t have, an accurate long ball, the short game accuracy can be learned. Don’t give up on the kid, he’s never going to be Peyton, Drew, Aaron or even Matt (your choice of which Matt) but what he will be is a very, very good QB who can lead a team to the SB.
December 12th, 2012 at 9:15 am
Well thanks Joe, there goes my morning. Looks like I have to shet up and color. Stuck with Freeman huh, good luck Glazers with attendance in the long run.
December 12th, 2012 at 9:18 am
Freeman is good…not great…but good enough for any team with decent defense to win. I am having a difficult time trying to remember a game that I can hang the loss on Freeman.
We have some things to fix and its not changing QBs…..
One of the better things about Freeman is that he doesn’t appear to be injury prone.
We need to give freeman some help when he gets pressured & I think that has to be Martin & Lorig. We need to use the FB more in the passing game. We need to re-develop a short passing game when Freeman gets pressure….that’s what everyone else uses against us.
Freeman is here to stay and I’m good with that!!!
December 12th, 2012 at 9:22 am
As bad as Freeman has been at times this year, we have have had leads against good teams late in the game but for conservative play calling and a weak secondary, we would be in the playoffs this year. And most of you know it!
December 12th, 2012 at 9:24 am
Freeman would be the #1 overall pick in this years draft. Sign this guy to a 10 year extension (he’s only 24yrs old for CHRIST’S SAKE!!!!!!)
December 12th, 2012 at 9:26 am
@FLMike,
That is true in that he would be signed immediately and paid a king ransom. We saw qbs like Flynn and more get deals but have limited film. So no doubting that. I will say this, he has the flash and potential to do it all and that is what drives people batty. He could dominate and has the potential to lay an egg sometimes. I would be happy if he would find one part of his game and just perfect it or see some mechanics improvements (footwork, pocket presence, calm under pressure). I think people see that he has the tools that these elites have and want more for him.
The question is from the neck and up.
December 12th, 2012 at 9:30 am
Freeman is Eli
December 12th, 2012 at 9:33 am
@Architek
Those improvements will come with consistency of coaching, how many QB coaches has he had since 2009? 4, 4 Years and 4 QB coaches, that’s not a consistant message, that’s what has ruined lesser QBs (see Jason Campbell) He has all the intangibles, now it’s just coaching him to use his talent, I always go back to Eli, but he’s the baseline for this offense (no matter what Schiano or Sully say, this is the Giants offense) it took him 4 full seasons in this scheme to get it, each year they worked on a different aspect of his game, time and patience it what this will take. Chucky and later Raheem didn’t destroy this franchise in a single season and it’s going to take more than a single season for Schiano to rebuild it.
December 12th, 2012 at 9:38 am
Where we draft a QB in next years draft will be telling. My guess is 4th round, 2-CB’s and DL in the first 3. Hopefully Josh will become more consistent but we need a back up plan.
December 12th, 2012 at 9:39 am
Before this season we were all discussing how Freeman’s strength isnt the westcoast style of short throws. We bring in O’Sullivan and he gives us just that: Deep balls. We bring in Vincent Jackson and he excels at the deep balls. We saw this style work mutiple times this year and it’s fun to watch.
Inherent on throwing the ball deep that many times is the low completion percentage.
If you miss throws on 3 consecutive drives you get what we had last week. Freeman and this offense (they really do go hand in hand) will have those types of games once in a while. They don’t have a good enough backup plan for high completion throws to get a drive going. They don’t have the players and practice for that type of offense.
That doesnt mean they get a pass: The one thing Freeman and the offense need to work on this offseason is third down completions in the intermediate range. Dominik will be looking for a replacement for Underwoord so i’d imagine. And perhaps a new TE as well.
December 12th, 2012 at 9:43 am
Because other teams would sign him it somehow means he’s not doing poorly here now? lol If there aren’t improvements from him in 2013, only a crazy FO would give him that deal… and if that happens lets just say the townspeople would be shouting “off with his head!” I hope that doesnt happen and that he gets his mind right and improves on these issues. I don’t want our team to be setback 5 yrs
December 12th, 2012 at 9:57 am
I’ve been saying for a LONG time that Freeman is here to stay.
You don’t just find QB’s that have his work ethic, maturity and physical tools hanging off trees.
No he’s not Drew Brees…but what exactly is Brees doing these days with HIS defense? Not much.
December 12th, 2012 at 9:58 am
Freeman = better than half the QBs in the league and better than all the QBs in the league of the same age or younger.
He is a baby: let him mature.
December 12th, 2012 at 10:02 am
I was with you until you said Houston. Cmon..Matt Schaub does not have the kind of Valleys, and week to week schizo tendencies that Freeman has. Not even close. And I think the whole mindset of “it’ll set you back 5 yrs” thing is so outdated. It’s a load of crap. Look at rookie QB’s not just this year but the past 3-4 yrs. How about before last yrs draft they way we viewed Tannehill and Russell Wilson? We prob thought less of those guys than Barkley and Geno Smith, ESPECIALLY Tannehill. It’s a diff game then 20 yrs ago, 10 yrs ago even. A lot of guys can play right away now. Obviously CB is their biggest need, but if someone like a Barkley falls in the second round or whatever, I say effing grab him and have someone that can legitimately push our schizo QB
December 12th, 2012 at 10:03 am
Better than rg111?
Luck?
I dunno but i agree we should keep him with a contingency plan.
December 12th, 2012 at 10:11 am
Name a QB in recent history that started their first year in the league and followed that up with consistent solid seasons.
Matt Ryan, definitely, and maybe Dalton and Stafford.
December 12th, 2012 at 10:32 am
Joe, your statement does not make sense. You point out the worst teams in the league and then say we should be happy with what we have. I have not heard anything that crazy since people were saying the Raheem will keep his job with 1 win during a 10 week blowout!
December 12th, 2012 at 10:35 am
If we get rid of Free, we will regret it I promise you!
December 12th, 2012 at 10:41 am
i would trade him to Kansas City Chiefs for there 2 1st rounders
December 12th, 2012 at 10:43 am
Yes he has his ups and downs but we have to remember that he still is only 24 years old…. with 4 years of NFL experience. He is still improving. It took Eli nearly 8 years to hit his potential. With the addition of a WR with cat-like quickness (Victor Cruz like) to be able to get separation we will be alright. By the way we are in the top half of the NFL in offense and points in the FIRST year of a new offense. NEXT SEASON WE WILL BE DOMINATE WHEN WE GET OUR GUYS BACK HEALTHY…… BEYOND EXCITED
December 12th, 2012 at 10:46 am
@the_buc_realist – If you think Freeman is worth two 1st round picks in the same draft, why in the world would you get rid of him?
December 12th, 2012 at 10:50 am
Have no problem keeping Freeman, however would like to see the team add a rookie to groom as a back-up/potential replacement. At worst the team would have the option to trade Free or the rookie a few years down the road depending on said rookies development.
December 12th, 2012 at 10:51 am
QB’s with less talent have won the Superbowl. I hope Sullivan hangs around and provides some consistency. Who knows what kind of coaching he got under Rah and Olsen. Maybe Sully can get him to quit sailing his intermediate throws.
December 12th, 2012 at 10:51 am
i don’t, but if some fans do, and other organizations do. then i would pull the trigger in a heart beat. Freeman is not an effective QB unless he has a strong running game to run play action. That is why he was successful when Blount ran wild in 2010, and his success this year is tied with Martin’s success.
December 12th, 2012 at 10:56 am
Josh Freeman is still only 24 years old. I want to see him for more than one season with the same offensive coordinator, and then if Josh is struggling we can start to at least consider other options. Just remember that even elite QB’s have the occassional crappy game or two each season. Yes, I was disappointed to see Josh struggle against Philly and I hope he can finish the season on a strong note, even though the playoffs are basically out of reach (can this team really make the playoffs with this secondary? Even with the return of Brandon McDonald? Color me skeptical), but Ira is right. Look around the league, I’d say Josh is the 15th best QB in the NFL (at least), so that leaves almost half of the NFL where Josh could come in and make a team better.
And one more thing. Joe, in your article you list a handful of teams who would practically kill for Josh Freeman. You can remove Carolina from the list. Newton may not be the most mature QB in the league, but he’s also young and full of talent. In the place of Carolina you can add (and I’m shocked to see they weren’t on your short list to begin with) the Buffalo Bills. I witnessed another game ending interception from Ryan Fitzpatrick against the Rams last Sunday, and it had to be one of the worst passes I’ve ever seen in my entire life. It was the equivalent of a child playing catch. No one was around except for two Rams defenders. Replace ‘Fitzmagic’ and his noodle arm with Josh Freeman and the Bills are a playoff team, I can guarantee you that. So before we scream for Josh to be replaced, let’s remember that the grass is sure as hell not always greener on the other side.
December 12th, 2012 at 10:56 am
I have to agree with Macbee, Really everyone struggles, but we have given up leads due to our terrible secondary and conservative playcalling on offense. Its terrible, i am actually content with 8-8 this year, but next year we should be wildcard or better.
December 12th, 2012 at 10:58 am
I agree Freeman is the future in Tampa. That being said we really need to shore up our defense so when he does have a bad game (or half/quarter) it doesn’t cost us a W. Maybe going back and playing some good ole BUC BALL isn’t so bad. Don’t get me wrong I love watching our offense when everything is clicking and we are putting up some big scores, but losing 38-35 sucks way worse than winning 9-6.
December 12th, 2012 at 10:59 am
@the_buc_realis
The same can be said about 99% of the QBs in the league right now…I would say Rodgers and Brees are probably the only 2 that don’t really need a good running game to succeed.
December 12th, 2012 at 11:04 am
People on here be killing me crying to draft another QB freeman is not consistent bottom line but when you look at it this year he is a top ten qb he has 25 tds and 8 ints He aint going anywhere drafting another qb would restart the franchise. People calling for geno smith and barkley have you seen how consistent they are ? I agree with what someone said earlier he is only 24 years old gesh !!!!!!!!!!!!!! are secondary aint helping him out (another subject )
December 12th, 2012 at 11:17 am
Freeman is still better than most of the QB’s in the league. Freeman seams to have lapses in focus. One minute he is making all the throws, making the right check downs and throwing it away and the right time. The next game he can’t hit a 10yd out route, throws into 3 defenders and gets picked, won’t take off and run when its the defense leaves a part you could drive a semi through, then takes a sack after forgetting that you don’t have over 3 seconds to make a decision.
The question is how do upgrade at the QB position when there are not any better free agents out there. The Bucs would have been better to be absolutely aweful last year and get the first round pick. They continue to be mediocre. Mediocre does not provide the draft picks needed to improve. They need to be an A or an F not 4-12 and get lucky like with a great QB draft class.
Get used to seeing # 5 for quite a while.
December 12th, 2012 at 11:26 am
YEAH! Mediocre yet ANOTHER decade…. Some teams just aren’t in it to win it they are just satified being in it! UGH!
December 12th, 2012 at 11:45 am
Posted a comment and it never showed up. lol
December 12th, 2012 at 11:58 am
Ya know I just love how everybody gives Free a pass on being completely pathetic and shut out in the first half and just wants to blame everything on the defense (which seems to happen every sunday). Ignore the fact that for 3 quarters the defense held the Eagles in check. Yes, the defense let the team down on the final drive. But for what this defense has been and will be for the next year or so… the game should of never been put on there shoulders. If Josh was consistant in the first half of the game and produced ANY kind of points we would of won. But he didnt… and thus we lost. Now, I agree theres no way we draft a QB this year in the first few rounds. And nobody in free agency is going to beat out Josh and yes they have every reason to let him play out his rookie contract before deciding on his future. But if they already have determined they are going to sign him to an extension. That is a BIG mistake. As of yet he has not shown he is capable of being what we need. You can not win in this league by playing just 1 or 2 quarters of good football a game. And you certainly cant win by only being able to throw a good deep ball. Everybody wants to point out how good his stats are but ignore the most critical stat of all… Wins and losses. Now I dont know the exact record he has as a starter but I can tell you its far below .500. It’s time for people to stop making excuses for this young man. And it’s time for him to perform and consistantly show he can beat teams with above a .500 record.
December 12th, 2012 at 12:07 pm
Oh and yes I know he has 10 come from behind victories, yes thats awesome. But then stop and ask yourself…. When we are trailing mostly every game because he is so badly inconsistent in the first half, 10 come from behind victories out of 61 career games… is that really so great?
December 12th, 2012 at 12:32 pm
Silense…We have not been trailing in games this yerrar, we have been losing the lead…that is defense. Also, football is a team sport. You can have the best QB around, but if the rest of the team is bad you do not win…check out NO, Breeze is there and they are lsoing. You are right about W/l as a team.
December 12th, 2012 at 12:45 pm
@ Mcbuc
What games have you been watching? We have been trailing a lot because Free for the most part cant do anything for the first half of the game. And yes I know its a team effort but we all know our defense is horrible. So you cant really say they have been under performing… However, you can say that about Josh. I would say the offense as a whole but yet we have a 1000 yard receiver (close to 2) and a 1000 yard back so you cant really say the offense as a whole is under performing. Just imagine what kind of stats these guys would have if Free came out and played consistant football for all 4 quarters for a whole season.
December 12th, 2012 at 12:55 pm
Answer or not, some better competetion at the QB position certainly couldn’t hurt. Sign somebody to help push Freeman.
December 12th, 2012 at 1:18 pm
25 and 8. No other team in the league would give up on a quarterback who puts up those kinds of numbers, and that’s a fact.
And the idea of signing another QB to “push” Freeman is somewhat ridiculous. The Bucs have so many other roster concerns they should be worried about, last thing they need to do is break the bank on a backup that will only cause more controversy and mess with Freeman’s confidence.
December 12th, 2012 at 1:45 pm
If you look up the stats, i think we have had a lead in all the games except the denver game in the 4th quarter.So freeman has done his part,it is time for the defence to do there job, protect the lead!
December 12th, 2012 at 1:57 pm
Ok I am Freeman support and have tried using reason and statistics to argue the point that Freeman is an adequate if not an above adequate quarterback who should be resigned. This year he has 25 TDs and 8 INTs and an above 90 QB rating. To many people none of that matters. They are blinded by the fact he misses receivers and is not good under pressure. They fail to realize that sometimes the defense has to make a few plays.
Therefore in leiu of that fact I am going to support what the Freeman haters say and look at the belief we should draft a franchise QB. Some of these people cite RG3 and Andrew Luck as good examples of what we can get. Then they create all kinds of scenarios where we can get someone like RG3 and Andrew Luck. First, of all in the “can’t miss scenarios” the team that is able to draft the franchise QB will either draft him themselves or trade him to someone for the proverbial farm.
So let’s assume like all the folks who hate Freeman want to do that we trade him and then put in Orlovsky who won a grand total of 2 games with a playoff caliber team from this year. Assuming Orlovsky does what he is expected to do and suck we get a high first round pick. Well here is a list of the 50 greatest qb busts. http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1047730-50-biggest-quarterback-busts-in-nfl-draft-history/page/2/
On the list are some great names like:
Jason Campbell, Duante Culpepper, Matt Leinart, Rex Grossman, Byron Leftwich, Patrick Dempsey, Chad Pennington, Ken O’Brien, Mark Malone, Kerry Collins, Brady Quinn, Tony Eason, Richard Todd, Kyle Boller, Jeff George, JP Losmann, Rich Campbell, Tommy Maddox, Vince Young, David Carr (#1 PICK), Joey Harrington, Jack Thompson (who briefly played and sucked for the BUCS), Kelly Stouffer, Jim Druckenmiller, Mike Phipps, Joe Tagge, Tim Couch (#1 PICK), Cade McNown, Dan McGuire, David Klingler, Todd Blackledge, Akili Smith, Andre Ware, Rick Mirer, Heath Schuler, Todd Marinovich, Art Schlichter, JaMarcus Russell (#1 PICK), Ryan Leaf
Oh I only listed the first rounders as I am certain all these great GM to be Freeman haters wouldn’t want to drop to the second round to get their guy.
I have a great idea we can get a QB from a small school who is accurate, passed for a ton of yards, ran for a bunch had a low TD to INT ratio. We can even get him later in the draft as he is from a smaller school. After all RG3 was from Baylor not exactly a football powerhouse. Oh let me give you his stats. Further, Bill Walsh (the inventor of the West Coast Offense for you people who don’t know but know enough to hate Freeman) loved this guy. You know who I am talking about.
Ok let me give you his Senior Year Stats:
244/364 (67.0%) for 3495 yards and 38 TD vs. 6 INT. 156 carries for 633 yards and 11 TD.
Dam that is good. You probably still don’t know him. Well how about if I tell you he used to play for the BUCS. Do you know who I am talking about now. Well let me tell you – that is Shaun King. Those are his stats from 1998. Also in 1998 the stats are even more impressive as that was when Corners could actually touch receivers and not get pass interface calls. The BUCS were too good to draft Peyton Manning (who was the #1 pick) so they got Shaun in the 2nd round with the 50th pick. Well if you have been watching the BUCS for any length of time you will know Shaun King was not the solution here or anywhere else and presently he is on the talk show Circuit. Oh and Manning he is still playing.
HEY I HAVE AN IDEA WE CAN SIGN SHAUN KING !!!!! (not)
You see getting a QB isn’t as easy as just picking a person it is a crap shoot. There are a ton of intangibles that make a quarterback great in the NFL that are not present in College. Presently we have a decent second tier QB let’s stick with him and the #4 scoring offense in the league and try to get more from our defense. When you are #4 in offense shouldn’t you have more than 6 wins. Also on top of that we don’t turn the ball over a lot.
December 12th, 2012 at 2:06 pm
@Silence the Critics,
There is no QB in the league that scores on every possession, which seems to be what you are expecting. What are we, 4th in scoring offense this year? How can that possibly be on Freeman? The other team gets payed to play defense, and that’s exactly what they do. And don’t even try to say we only score that much because we are behind, because you and I both know that’s bull spit. When you are one of the most explosive and highest scoring offenses in the NFL, then it is on the defense if you lose. To say otherwise is ignoring facts. We give up well over 300 yards per game through the air. Let that sink in for a second. That is unheard of, even in today’s pass happy NFL. We are historically pathetic, yet you and many others pin it on a 4000 yard, 30 TD, (hopefully) less than 10 INT QB. I don’t get it, nor would anyone with any resemblance of common sense. Freeman is not perfect and has tons of room for improvement, but he has had a very good season. He is our best option, like it or not.
December 12th, 2012 at 2:08 pm
And no, we have not been trailing much of the game. Don’t know what you’ve been watching, but that is completely and utterly false. You can’t give false information and maintain any credibility in an argument.
December 12th, 2012 at 2:43 pm
@Hawaiian Buc – Exactly that is what I am saying. We are #4 in scoring and people think we should just go out and draft the next RG3 and Andrew Luck – like it is that easy. LOL. Is easier to improve our secondary and pass rush in the draft and Free-Agency and maybe get a new D Coordinator/D Backs coach. Also Freeman has more TD Passes than either Andrew Luck or RG3 so the BUCS would’ve had more losses if we had them. Especially with our Pass Defense.
I will give them that Freeman has accuracy issues and isn’t good under pressure but next year when we have a better line won’t all that improve ?? Also when he has another year in the offense and under a REAL QB Coach which he has NEVER had who knows how good he could be. He is having a good year now !!!
Do they realize if the BUCS held teams to 21 points a game on average we would have 4 more wins ??? How is this Freeman’s fault ?? I still haven’t gotten a good answer. I guess it is Freeman’s responsibility to score a minimum of 30 or so points a game. Also if replacing him is the answer who do you replace him with ???
@Silence the Critic – I have a solution we need to sign SHAUN KING. He had some solid College Stats (244/364 (67.0%) for 3495 yards and 38 TD vs. 6 INT. 156 carries for 633 yards and 11 TD ) and was even endorsed by Bill Walsh. Also he hasn’t been in the league for awhile so he isn’t beat up and he is only as old as Peyton Manning and hasn’t had the arm surgery either. Plus we could get him on the cheap.
Here are some other options of highly touted College Football QB’s who are still kicking around that We could get for a song Vince Young or JaMarcus Russell perhaps even David Carr. I think JaMarcus is on the streets so we could let him live at one BUC and pay him with Baloney Sandwiches ;-).
Of course all that is a joke keep Freeman draft or sign some defensive backs and a pass rusher and maybe get a better D Coordinator and D Backs Coach. Someone who I don’t know can improve on our 32nd ranked Pass Defense.
December 12th, 2012 at 3:01 pm
Either your reading comprehension skills are horrid or you are simply not reading anything I have said. I have said many many times that our pass defense is horrible. You know that. I know that. We all know that. But yet you sit here and complain about it and blame them for the loses repeatedly as if you expected them to be great. Lol. You want to talk about common sense.. Ok lets talk common sense. We lots by 2 points to the eagles. And the other loses are all by less than 8 points. So tell me… Is it not true that Free starts out the first half of almost every game absolutely awful?… Is it not true if Free managed to do anything consisntantly in the first half other than be inconsistant that theres a good chance we might of actually won those games since they ended so close?… Now im not placing ALL the blame on Free, there are other factors to consider such as the horrible clock management… but you are trying to imply that Free has played well enough to get us W’s… thats simply not true and if you disagree then you are blind.
December 12th, 2012 at 3:03 pm
Ramdog you definately didnt read anything I said… So im not even going to bother responding to your post.
December 12th, 2012 at 3:21 pm
Lol maybe at year 10 we will start actually maybe holding Freeman accountable… Yea… That sounds about right lolol.
December 12th, 2012 at 3:30 pm
No, it is not true he starts out the game horrible. In fact, as of 3 weeks ago (not sure where we are now), we were first in the league at first possession points. See there, that is facts, compared to incorrect proclamations that you make. And yes, putting us 4th in scoring offense is putting us in position to win.
December 12th, 2012 at 3:37 pm
wk 1 13-0 us
wk 2 24-13 us
wk 3 10-7 them
wk 4 17-6 them
wk 5 bye
wk 6 7-3 us
wk 7 28-21 them
wk 8 20-10 us
wk 9 10-7 them
wk 10 21-17 them
wk 11 14-10 them
wk 12 10-10 tie
wk 13 10-7 us
wk 14 10-0 them
Those are all the halftime scores this season. 5 times we went into halftime with the lead. 6 times we went into halftime losing and once we were tied. Most of those times we led was against bad teams. Those are actual facts since you like to throw stats out there so much. Now, like i said im not putting all the blame on Free but a good majority of it goes to him. I’m here on this site every sunday watching the games. And almost every week, people are bitching about how awful Free is in the first half. He has some good drives but far more awful drives where he misreads, or just flat out misses wide open receivers. I will give Free some credit. He is much better the 2nd half usually but you cant sit here and only look at his second half stats and be blind to how awful he usually is in the first half.
December 12th, 2012 at 3:39 pm
Lmao im not talking about just the first drive. Im talking about the whole half in general. Sure every Qb can have a successful drive or two every now and then but has he been consistant in the first half? Sheesh you people are coming up with things to prove me wrong that I have never said to begin with.
December 12th, 2012 at 3:44 pm
Freeman is not the problem. He has his warts but is 24 years old…. most quarterbacks not named Peyton were either holding a clipboard or playing in some terrible offenses putting up turd numbers when they were coming up at that age. Freemans development started early… for good or bad that is what it is.
Bill Sheridan is the problem. When a DT has to come to you and tell you to make an adjustment all the warning bells in the universe should go off. He needs to be fired.
The great Peyton Manning (one of the best QB’s all time) won only 1 Super Bowl with the juggernaut Colts offense. That is just sad. To be a good team you need a strong balanced offense and a decent defense that can get a stop on third down once in a while.
No magic formula there, the Pats have been doing it for years. I’d say there is a strong chance Brady gets another ring this year because of it.
December 12th, 2012 at 3:44 pm
And before you try to say Im wanting a QB that can score on every possession. No, I never said that. I’m just wanting consistancy. You know when there is an obvious play to be made that can be made… make it on a consistant basis. Thats what the upper tier QBs can do. Free on the other hand struggles in this area. once again im not condoning we get rid of Free by any means. I’m simply saying he hasent established himself as the QB of the future yet. His stats look much better on paper than his actual play in games.
December 12th, 2012 at 3:49 pm
Aaron Rodgers has been inconsistent this year… would you take a pass on him?
December 12th, 2012 at 3:50 pm
Have you been a Bucs fan long? Putting up that many points in the first half is more than we used to score in entire games. My, have we become spoiled. And I’m sorry, but I’d rather him do better in the second half, but that’s just me I guess.
December 12th, 2012 at 3:53 pm
Don’t ever compare Rodgers to Free lol
December 12th, 2012 at 3:54 pm
So because we’ve never been able to do it before means he’s awesome? I think that means you are settling for mediocrity more so than me being spoiled. I’ve been a bucs fan for 20 years. I know how pathetic our offense has been historically… but that doesnt mean I have to settle for average simply because we’ve never had it before. I think Josh has all the talent in the world that he hasent used to his full potential yet. Thats why I’m harping on him so much. If I thought our defense had the capability to be better than it is… I would be bashing them to… But sadly I think they are playing up to there talent level so no point in trying to bash them. Clearly we need more help on the defensive end. But we have an Offense right now that can win games for us if they would just play to there potential consistantly.
December 12th, 2012 at 3:55 pm
Point is we lose most of the time if you wait till it the fourth quarter 2 minutes left and your behind to actually start producing.
December 12th, 2012 at 3:58 pm
Never said he’s awesome. Don’t put words in my mouth. Makes you should stupid and desperate. And yes, he’s partially to blame. Everyone on the team is. But he’s not the problem.
December 12th, 2012 at 4:00 pm
4000 yards, 30 TD’s. case closed
December 12th, 2012 at 4:00 pm
Was it 4-14 going into the half? How is that not a problem?
December 12th, 2012 at 4:01 pm
W-L is the the only stat that matters. Case closed
December 12th, 2012 at 4:03 pm
We gave up over 500 yards to Eli…. How is that not a bigger problem?
December 12th, 2012 at 4:06 pm
so when favre, brees or ryan throw 5 ints its no big deal. But if josh throws 2 tds and is off we want to crucify him. Come on guys it’s or dbs that need the boot.
December 12th, 2012 at 4:06 pm
Lol who said that’s not a problem? But just because that is a problem does not somehow mean you overlook the problem of Free.
December 12th, 2012 at 4:07 pm
Tony Romo has excellent stats… what has that got him? And now I see you are resorting to name calling. And you may of not said it but you dam sure Implied that he’s our future simply because on paper he looks great Lol. Sure, I hope he throws for 5000 yards next year with 50 touch downs. But if he ends up with another 7-9 record… what good is it? Lol
PR these Free homers are crackin me up. Name calling, coming up with stats to prove me wrong that had nothing to do with anything I’ve said in the first place. Lol. You are absolutely right though at the end of the day the W’s and L’s are all that matter.
December 12th, 2012 at 4:10 pm
The day Free does enough to ever be compared to those QB’s you can say something like that. Till than that’s just foolish talk. Besides, are any if those QB’s wearing a Bucs uniform?
December 12th, 2012 at 4:11 pm
You people are not paying attention to anything. Nobody said Free was the biggest problem. But he certainly is a problem. You want to throw brees into the conversation by saying he threw 5 Ints? Sure he did. But does he do that consistantly or was it a 1 time thing? Brees is one of the best QBs in the league because he is so consisnant. Free is not a QB who has had 1 bad game and 15 good ones. He comes out almost every game stinking up the first half with the exception of a drive or 2. Seriously you people are pulling excuses out of the air to stick up for your boy. All I’m saying is right now he isnt the future until he can prove he can play all 4 quarters of a game routinely. Hold the man accountable. Like you are doing with our Defense that you already know suck and has sucked.
December 12th, 2012 at 4:12 pm
Amen.
December 12th, 2012 at 4:19 pm
Don’t even sweat it, thing is Free is payed now to Win and the only way he will be payed again is if he can prove he can do just that. I’m completely at ease knowing the Bucs organization will make their future decisions from that perspective. Not based on his potential or where he may be 4 yrs from now. The only way you pay a player based on potential is usually when they first come into this league, sadly that time for Free has passed as that contract is just about up.
December 12th, 2012 at 4:23 pm
Good to see the trolls are alive and well.
You are both wrong about W-L being all that matters.
Superbowls are all the matter, just ask the guys with hands full of rings.
December 12th, 2012 at 4:23 pm
Exactly PR. Free will be our QB next year. I have no doubts about that. Only question is will he perform well enough to warrant an extension. unless he improves dramatically in certain areas of his game… I think not.
December 12th, 2012 at 4:25 pm
Ohhhh now we are trolls because we disagree with your opinion. Ignorance is bliss right? lmao… and btw princess you have to win to get to the superbowl. So you my dear are wrong.
December 12th, 2012 at 4:29 pm
I’m sorry spanky I thought you have to lose game to make it into the playoffs, than lose more game’s to get into the Super Bowl, than lose again. My bad.
December 12th, 2012 at 4:32 pm
You guys are aware that the other teams have an offense and a defense too, right?
@Ramdog…Post of the day with HB a close second. You could have used our own Buc QBs as examples as well, not just King. Take a look at Vinnie and Dilfer as college players. How about the other side, Brad Johnson was not even the starter at FSU.
W/L is the only stat that matters at the end of the day for the team, but not for individuals inless you are going to fire the entire team. To say that it is Freeman becasue we new the defense was bad is crazy. No one is saying we thought the defense would be good, but to say the amount of scoring Freeman and the offense have been doing is not enough is nuts. Niether manning brothers, Drew B, or Brady coould win many games with this defense.
We need another year in the system and some new defensive pieces. I am hoping for a free agent or trade for a CB and a CB in the draft. I would like to see some help at the safety position as well. On offense a new slot receiver and a big TE and I would say we are good.
December 12th, 2012 at 4:34 pm
Ram, yoou could have used Steve Spurrier as a great example as well.
December 12th, 2012 at 4:42 pm
Silence, I am not ripping on you, I enjoy your posts. I just think you are a little overboard on this one. The stats do matter, he is ranked tenth by the NFL (or he was a couple days ago). You may be right, if he tightened up early and played all the way through they may have won those games, some of that blame is on the play calling as well. On the other side (whether we knew or not that they were bad) if the defense held it together we would have won more games as well. Sending Freeman packing would come back to haunt us for a long time. Breesz is not winning this year either, but that does not mean the Saints should send him to pasture.
December 12th, 2012 at 4:49 pm
Thats where are you misunderstanding me. I never once said we need to send Freeman packing. Nor have I implied it. Ive said quite a few times Free will be (and disservedly so) our starting QB next year. But if he does not improve on certain aspects of his game. He wont be here past that. Dumping Freeman right now without anything at least equal to him is nuts and irresponsible. But im not going to sit here and blow smoke up your butt and say Free is perfectly fine and not a problem at all. Like you said if he would of played 4 quarters of good football we might/could of won all these tight games instead of the 2 quarters he’s been doing. I think some of you are thinking I am just here ranting hate on Free when I am just trying to have a intelligent debate… Lol but some want to name call and throw out facts that dont have anything to do with anything. I do disagree that stats are important. Everyone would like to have a 4000 yard passer on there team no doubt. But if you arent winning it means nothing.
December 12th, 2012 at 4:52 pm
And yes I agree the play calling at times has been horrible as well as clock management (hell I’ll even throw in the poor 3rd string offensive line play). It’s not all on Free but there are times (alot of times) where Free has no pressure and misses wide open receivers 5, 10, 15 yards out. You have to make those plays if you want to win games. Again, I realize our pass defense is horrible. Im not blind to that fact and that is by far our biggest weakness that has to be addressed. But to not acknowledge Free has serious flaws in his game right now and declare him the future is nuts.
December 12th, 2012 at 5:11 pm
joe do u think tht the bucs could draft a late round QB
December 12th, 2012 at 5:11 pm
If Freeman could chuck the rock, all game, like he does in the 4th quarter, then we would be a contender.
Until we can get four quarters from Lebron… oops I mean Freeman, we will only remain mediocre.
December 12th, 2012 at 5:53 pm
You’re right Silence, and I do agree with you. Biggest problem I have with your comments is by you saying the word “problem”. He has some clear flaws that we all recognize, but he’s far from the reason we are losing. We fix the secondary well before we even consider replacing Freeman. He’s doing his job, although obviously he can and needs to do much better.
December 12th, 2012 at 7:22 pm
Just a quick note, the QB you guys hate so much is #10 in QB Rating, # 4 in TDs, and has thrown the 3rd least INTs among regular starters.Just think if he didn’t suck?
December 12th, 2012 at 7:52 pm
No one said they hate him….
But what’s his win loss? And not that stats really matter but what’s his completion percentage ?
December 12th, 2012 at 7:54 pm
@McBuc thanks for the love. I could’ve used other QB’s there are a ton of crap ones picked early out there God knows. I forgot about Spurrier, lol good one, and although Winny Testaverde was horrible for the BUCS I know folks who have met and know him personally and apparently he is the nicest person now and was when he was in the NFL as well.
I just thought it was funny that everyone is saying how a QB who has thrown 25 TD over 3,000 yards and only 8 INTs is the problem on the BUCS. Do I want us to get an Aaron Rodgers or RG3 clone. Of course. But for every one of those there is a dozen or so Ryan Leaf’s and Shaun “of the Dead” King’s out there. He does have accuracy issues as well as pressure in the pocket issues. However, if you keep pressure off him does anyone realize according to profootball focus he would have only 2 INTs that’s right 2.
The problem is with our DB’s and I think if we had Eric Wright back there we may have won a game or two more and still be in the thick of it. Right now we have corners who were working at the Footlocker last week and now are suiting up for the BUCS is that really how you win in the NFL ?? Also if you know your DB’s are your weakness shouldn’t you be in a defense that masks that a little bit more instead of bring the house on a Blitz not getting a sack and leaving receivers running free downfield.
Anyhow we are better a few more drafts more defensive backs and some good free agent signings and I think we make a run next year. I like the direction we are headed.
December 12th, 2012 at 8:01 pm
You plant a seed and watch it grow.
December 12th, 2012 at 8:19 pm
@ Hawaiian
You put it right on the money. He can and has to be better but is far from the reason for the losses.
@Silence & PRBuc
I agree with you that he has next year to figure it out or the Bucs draft the future. About W-L…. really? Freeman played on some pretty garbage teams run by Rah Rah and you cant hang all the result on Freeman. He was by far our best player in 2010 by a long shot and the team just missed the playoffs. W-L in the playoffs I say you are right as an evaluation…and so far Freeman is a perfect 0-0.
If he doesn’t make the playoffs next year and do his job to be our best player then the time will have arrived to move on. Don’t hang all those loses on Freeman from the Rah era that isn’t fair… Josh Freeman wasn’t the one loafing.
December 12th, 2012 at 8:32 pm
He deserves a pay cut, but the market will drive his figure up, contributing to the cap headache we’re going to be looking at shortly.
December 12th, 2012 at 9:58 pm
I agree and i wasn’t hanging all the losses on him. I’m just making a point that at no time yet has he made it clear he is the future. I’m hoping he lights it up next year. I by no means hate Free, I think he has an outstanding work ethic.. but as of right now he’s not played yet to his potential. I will say that signing a FA that will come in here and push him (not necessarily take his spot) would be great for him. Orlovsky, is a good vet back up but theres no way he has the talent to challenge Free to start, not even a little.
December 12th, 2012 at 10:38 pm
George Steinbrenner, “Billy Martin is here to stay, he’s not going anywhere, he’s a Yankee for life!”
Buc’s official spokesman, ” Josh Freeman is here to stay, he not going anywhere, he’s a Buc for life!”
Imagine Freeman as a starting pitcher for the Rays, he would been benched by the 2nd inning. After whining about his defense, offense, umpires and the strike zone, Madden would put him on a bus to Durham.
Trade him to KC or NYJ, get a top draft choice while he still has value. No way you pay him the $8.3 million for next year.
Draft Geno or Barkely and hire Norv Turner.
Draft some top rate CB’s. Sign a top rate CB in FA.
Wait for Colt Lyerla, freshman TE from Oregon before you draft a TE.
Proceed to Super Bowl.
December 12th, 2012 at 11:04 pm
^ delusional moron
“Elite” QBs who have had awful games this year (many of them multiple times)
Drew Brees
Eli Manning
Matt Schaub
Joe Flacco
To name just a few off the top of my head, Houston and Baltimore aren’t even sold on Schaub and Flacco being elite. Would Baltimore have fired their OC if they did? Doubtful, they’re asking the same questions the Bucs are about Freeman, it’s just the surrounding cast (particularly on defense) that is so much better to compensate for Flacco.
Kid is 24 and far better then Matt f’n Barkley (or for that matter Murray, Geno, Bray, etc.) will ever dream of being.
December 12th, 2012 at 11:08 pm
Smith maybeee, but I wouldnt dump Free for him. And I would stay far far far away from Barkley. He is going to be the next bust from USC.
December 12th, 2012 at 11:17 pm
I do think Aaron Murray has a ton of potential. Maybe the most out of this class if he chooses to come out. He would be my first choice of QB if I had to take someone in this class. But like Kh said I wouldnt unload Free for any of them.
December 12th, 2012 at 11:33 pm
Aaron Murray is Greg McElroy, serviceable backup but nothing more. Haven’t seen any indication he’s going to be a good one, just look at his stats when he plays against top teams.
December 13th, 2012 at 4:43 am
“But what’s his win loss? And not that stats really matter but what’s his completion percentage ?”
——-
Football is the ultimate team game. It is completely unfair to judge one player by wins and losses, because if they don’t have the players around them, not even the greatest can win. I still laugh at the people that say Freeman only has numbers because of the weapons he has. What a joke! Every single great QB in the history of the NFL has had weapons. Joe Montana wasn’t throwing to Michael Clayton was he? Marino, Manning, Elway, Favre, Bradshaw, etc. all had weapons. If anyone hear really believes that Freeman’s weapons are that much better than the rest of the league, I suggest you lay off the Aderall.
As for his completion percentage, I still don’t get how this concept is difficult for people to get. Who had a higher shooting % – Shaquille O’Neal or Ray Allen? Anybody here want to take Shaq in a shooting competion with Ray Allen? Freeman throws the ball down the field all game long. There’s no dinking and dunking in this offense. When you throw the ball down the field more, your percentage is going to be less. I can draw a diagram for you if you are still confused.
December 13th, 2012 at 9:12 am
It really won’t matter what we “fans” think. If Freeman keeps throwing over, under, behind, to far out in front, or right at the db(where he has gotten very lucky this season not to have plenty more INT’s) he will be as his name says a Freeman. We can talk about this and that & how good a runner he is ( when has he ran like he did in 2010) I think he needs to have the same QB coach & a OC who has some idea how to improve his short/medium/long errant passes that happen 4-5 times or more a game. We will be looking to draft another “franchise” QB sooner rather than later. I like freeman, but this is year # 4 in his first 5 year contract. Who wants to sign him as is with no more improvement to another 5 year 50+ million contract?
If it is all about 5 then #5 needs to show improvement. Hitting receivers in stride not opponents DB who thankfully have not caught those gifts. Time will tell, but at year 4 of his first contract time is running out.
December 13th, 2012 at 10:06 am
@RustyRhIno
Two names: Young & Williams
Thats why Freeman will get a long-term deal, you don’t give up on a young guy who puts up the kind of numbers Freeman does when he has a talented supporting cast around him. You are also not looking at the whole picture, in evaluating Freeman you have to take into account who and what he had to work with, as far as coaches go, he basically had what amounts to a high school coaching staff for 3 years, Raheem and Olsen are both schmucks, Olsen who is now working for the Jags ruining two more serviceable QBs in Gabbert and Henne, and Raheem is now relegated to coaching the 3rd worst secondary in the league. Freeman has shown when he has talent around him (a decent O-line, and a serviceable RB,TE,WR corps) he puts up the numbers, it’s not Freeman’s fault the d collapses and gives up late leads. Freeman will be here for a long time.
December 13th, 2012 at 6:46 pm
Freeman is not going anywhere, nor should he. His numbers this year will be better than 2/3 of the league’s starting QBs and he’ll only get better with another year in the system. Where’s that Deadspin article calling for Eli’s head after year 4? Yes his inconsistent play is maddening but the kid is a gamer who plays better when it counts. That’s not easy to find.
December 14th, 2012 at 2:40 pm
Hawaiian unfortunately for you the sad truth is this game is measured off of wins and losses and ultimately SB’s 🙁 … however unfair it seems. Free puts up another LOSING season and his arse is in the hot seat. No disputing that. He could still win out. If so good.
– As far as his completion percentage, you’ve got to he joking right? Are we watching the same games? He is missing ALL types of passes and his completion % would actually be MUCH higher if he hit on the short and intermediate routes. Deep throws aren’t the issue. There are plenty of QB’s in this league that aren’t in dink and dunk offenses that have FAR better %’s.
December 14th, 2012 at 2:50 pm
Stats for poops and giggles:
His 43.8 percent completion rate (32-of-73) in December is unacceptable.
ESPECIALLY in December.
“Freeman’s biggest issue is accuracy. His 54.7 completion percentage ranks 34th in the NFL, though he is sixth in touchdown passes (25) and seventh in yards per attempt (7.6).”
The latter doesn’t excuse the former.