Good Josh. Bad Josh. Bye Josh?

December 21st, 2012

Veteran Ch. 10 sportscaster Dave Wirth checks in with his weekly take for readers. Wirth dives into the Josh Freeman chatter and more.

45 Responses to “Good Josh. Bad Josh. Bye Josh?”

  1. raphael Says:

    LOL..the bucs would be the laughing stock of the League if that happened…and they would deserve it…Freeman is one of the best and brightest young stars at QB in the league…..

  2. FLBoyInDallas Says:

    Freeman isn’t going anywhere for at least the length of another contract. Four to six more years at least. Get used to it.

  3. Mr Lucky Says:

    @raphael – yeah like the league laughs at the Bucs now?

    When you post crap like you do about Freeman all I do is laugh at you Freeman is a losing Franchise QB – PERIOR

  4. raphael Says:

    Lucky…. the league laughs now ? link please ?

  5. MadMax Says:

    Im with bye Josh. Keep him for this last year while priming a replacement. As far as being laughed at about that? Im a Bucs fan, Im used to it…but I’ll take being laughed at while trying something else that may work over the same old inconsistent crap. Look what happened with Doug! I like Blount too, but he just wasnt consistent enough. Now look at him, he doesnt play much anymore because someone better came along and took over. It is what it is.

  6. Tm Says:

    Don’t let a few games in the first season with a new OC scare you. Everyone goes through a learning curve. He is 24 and getting better. We may no hit playoffs his year but our future is bright.

  7. Eric Says:

    Is it possible that the Sullivan offense fits a QB with eli type skill set but not josh.

    It’s a read quick, throw quick, read defense run and gun almost. Eli is super good at it. Josh’s scouting report out of college was that quick decisions and reading coverages aren’t his strength.

    Trying to put square peg in round hole?

  8. Miguel El Magnifico Says:

    If you let Freeman play out his contract, you suffer another sub par season and lose all of his trade value. Coach and GM get fired.

    Sign LGB to a very cap friendly multi-year contract. Package him and the Patriot’s 4th round pick (Talib) to Belicheat for Ryan Mallet. Mallet’s twice as good as Gosh.

    Tell Gosh’s agent to start shopping him around for a trade. The Bucs will be needing a 1st round pick to pick up Geno Smith.

    Let Mallett and Geno compete for the starting slot. The Bucs solve their QB problem for the next decade.

  9. raphael Says:

    LMAO ^^^^^ hilarious !

  10. Buccsfan76 Says:

    I swear this reminds me of the crap Brees went through with the lousy Charger fans. Freeman is younger at this stage of his career and has better numbers though. Let the kid grow, or he will probably end up somewhere else with a ring, like Brees…and Steve Young….and Trent Dilfer. OK, maybe not Dilfer.

  11. Jonny 3.3 Says:

    I have been one of the biggest Freeman supporters and admirers since he was drafted. But even I agree with Wirth’s take here that Freeman’s job should not be as safe as it has been in the past. I say let him play out his contract and let us see what we have in him. Its not like we would be missing out on a chance to SB appearance by letting Freeman go if he has another inconsistent year in 2013.

  12. Mr Lucky Says:

    The problem is you all think that Freeman is a FRANCHISE QB – he’s NOT. There are only a handful of those: Manning, Brady, Rodgers, Brees, RGIII, Luck, Schaub – those are QB’s whose shoulders you rest upon.

    Freeman is way too inconsistent to reach those ranks. All the above QB’s get better as the season progresses whereas Josh gets WORSE!

    Plus Freeman has gotten so used to losing and is not a leader. The problem is there isn’t anything on the horizon that is a SIGNIFICANT upgrade so yeah Freeman will be at the QB position in 2013 and the Bucs will likely be home watching the playoffs AGAIN.

  13. Raphael Says:

    Lol.. That funny….except the bucs will likely be in the playoffs next year.

  14. Macabee Says:

    Mr. Lucky,

    I did a scathing piece on Josh Freeman the day after the Saints game where I pointed out all of his weaknesses and suggested that he is as good as he is ever going to be. Time will tell if I’m wrong about that, but I stopped short of calling for his replacement. I said this because I think we can win with Freeman under certain conditions. Let me explain.

    Our record now is 6-8. There are at least 3 games that we lost where Freeman gave us a lead in the final quarter of the game but for conservative play calling and a horrible secondary, we would have won. We would now be 9-5 and playing the Rams for a playoff spot. As poor as Freeman might have played he was nowhere on the field when those games were lost. If you feel you must blame Freeman for something then blame him for not having a bigger lead to make up for the incompetent defensive play-calling and the antics of a keystone Kop secondary.

    Brad Johnson won a SB as did Trent Dilfer at the Ravens. A few years back, Mark Rypien won at the Redskins. Average QBs can win with superior offenses and/or defenses in the NFL. Aaron Rodgers has won one after 4 years in the lab and 3 years later at age 28. Drew Brees has been in the league for 12 years and has set all kinds of records and he has only managed to win one. The amazing Peyton Manning has won 10 games every year for the last 10 years and has only managed to win one. Eli has won two, but if you look at his play lately, worse than Freeman, and many of us are wondering – how’d he do that. The elite Matt Ryan has been in the league for 5 years and has never won a play-off game. You mention Schaub – the Texans didn’t make the playoffs for twenty years and last year when they did Schaub didn’t even play. With the embarrassing beatdown administered by the Patriots 2 weeks ago, be careful who you call a franchise QB. With the mild exception of Eli, none of those franchise QBs you mention have any better record than Brad Johnson or Dilfer or Rypien when it comes to SB wins and that’s what it’s all about!

    So why get rid of Freeman when he is just as likely as the next average QB to win it all if surrounded by the right team. And finally for all the weapons that Freeman supposedly got in FA – due to injuries, trades, and banishments, but for Vincent Jackson, Freeman has fewer weapons than he had in 2011. Concerning the Saints game for which Freeman is taking such a bath, we beat the Saints once for the last 3 years and the Falcons last year. Who was our QB then? No. Freeman is no elite QB and never will be, but he has proven that he can win. But we could do a lot worst and some of you will not be content until we prove that!

  15. mcBuc Says:

    I agree macabre with everything except that freeman will never be elite. Well said anyway though. Luck and rj3 are not elite until they keep doing it for three plus years.

  16. Macabee Says:

    I admit mcBuc that I don’t know that for sure, my main point is that it’s not necessary to win. We throw franchise QB around like shutdown corner, which I think is way overused. There are two types of QBs – those who win and those who don’t!

  17. SeanyMac in SC Says:

    @ Macabee – good take. I would agree with you. Josh really only lost this one game with all his turn overs. The secondary has lost all the other games. It just stings really bad right now after this egg we laid last week. I think the guys are playing for future jobs now and will hopefully play hard. No one is going to want to hire a quitter and its easy to see quitting on tape. The weeds will be picked out.

  18. Mr Lucky Says:


    Nice write up. I agree that the Bucs could win with Freeman if they had a good defense; we don’t.

    A Franchise QB can win games with a bad defense – look at the Saints or Giants.

    An average QB can win games with a good defense – Brad Johnson,Trent Dilfer, Joe Flaco

    My biggest concern with Freeman is this is the second year in a row with a losing streak – that combined with his overall losing record from Kansas St and I’m concerned that he has an ‘oh well’ losers mentality.

    That combined with his ‘annointment’ at the QB position doesn’t help either. This kid needs to be PUSHED and hard. Where is the competition? I’d like to see the Bucs bring in a Matt Flynn to compete for the starting job.

    Heck I’ve said it before and it bears repeating that Tebow, a QB with a winning attitude in college and the NFL, would ensure no blackouts and yes with Doug Martin in the backfield the Bucs would be on par with the Vikings and could compete.

    Right now with Freeman you’re esured of blackouts at RJ stadium and who knows how the team fares? I can assure that the defense finds it difficult to get going knowing that not only will the offense do a 3 & out but there are turnoves as well.

  19. MTM Says:

    @ Macabee

    Nice assessment of Freeman and for the win /loss break downs. There are other things that Freeman fails to do at the ends of games that has cost the Bucs numerous wins.
    That would be converting first downs in the final minutes of the 4th quarter when your team is leading. I have witnessed many games where Freeman has had opportunities to convert on third down and should have taken off and run for the first down. Instead Freeman wastes the first to downs automatically. Then either takes a sack, throws a pick etc…

    The opposing team then drives down the field to score the winning TD. Now it is easy to put it on the defense when that happens. The good QB’s know their teams weaknesses and don’t leave it up to the defense to win the game week in and week out in the final minutes. I dont see the killer instinct in Freeman at the ends of games. Freeman is very passive at the wrong times.

  20. McBuc Says:

    Macabee, you are right on that. There are a hand full of true elite QBs, otherwise they would not be considered elite. Good point comparing the elite QB to the shut down corner, nietrher matter without winning, and there are just a handful of each.

  21. Gus Says:

    The guy hit it on the head. Bring in someone to compete. Would much rather see this happen in free agency then through the draft but thats what needs to happen. I still say sign him now. He would be cheaper than ever.

  22. Brad Says:

    All you non Freeman people need to do is look at Eli Mannings numbers the first year he was under Sullivan. I’ve never seen so many fans that don’t know shi! About football. Calling for a replacement for Freeman really shows the ignorance of I’m guessing is the true band wagoners. These people will shouting to the the rooftops that they were fans from the beginning once be has a good year which I believe this one was. He’s had 1 terrible game. Even the Eagles game after a poor half he brought us back and we had the lead 21-10 in the 4th. Wake up people.. You are clueless. And as far as his accuracy.. Other than this year I believe his accuracy hasn’t been bad at all. Even last years disaster he completed 62%. Next year we will see the complete Freeman and he will put it all together . I have no doubt..

  23. Bucnjim Says:


    Great break down of Josh Freeman! I can see the arguement for both sides, but to be honest I’m a huge Freeman supporter. I get frustrated just like everyone else on this site. I’ve been a fan for over 25 years and my arguement would be that this is by far the best offense I’ve ever seen for any Bucs team. Year after year; in the old stadium and the new; I’ve sat through low scoring mistake filled football. For 10 years we had a great defense, but the offense was seviceable at it’s best. Now these guys are exciting to watch and it’s only going to get better. Who is behind all this excitement? Freeman!

  24. J 2.0 Says:

    Ok, the Freeman bashing has gone on long enough. This is why Tampa fans are widely viewed accross the country as “bad fans.”

    Let’s take everybody’s favorite QB to compare Freeman to, Eli Manning.

    In Eli’s 4th season he was 26 years old. He threw a 56.1 completion %, 3336 yards, 23 TD’s, 20 INT’s, and a 73.9 rating.

    Freeman’s 4th year he is 24 years old. He has a 54.8 completion %, probably 4000 yards, probably 30 TD’s, probably 15 INT’s, and a 85.7 rating.

    What is not to like here boys?

    If we had a decent secondary we would be a playoff team. I expect one low level FA signing and 2 top 4 picks to address CB’s in the offseason. Next year we will make aplayoff run.

    Freeman’s struggles couldn’thave come at a better time. Sign him now while the market is down. The sky is the limit for a kid who will be 25 next year with 4 years of NFL experience. Not to mention Eli didn’t really step it up under Sullivan until their 2nd year together.

  25. Architek Says:

    You are spot on but my question why keep a QB that consistently do the small things like complete a screen pass or dump off to the half back? You’re right the defense hurt us all year but to have weapons on offense that was somewhat overhauled with no leader under the center failed even worse.

    Remember Dallas and the defense were superb, the Gosh choked it again. Raymond James will never sell out while he is here. Glazers should really think about the repercussion of resigning Gosh. he is not the long term answer if he can’t complete passes under 8 yards.

  26. Have A Nice Day Says:

    Mr Lucky – The Saints aren’t winning. Why? Because they have a absolutely terrible pass defenses.

  27. raphael Says:

    @Brad right on the money…Bandwagon fans….when the defense finally gets it together next year and the offense is clicking ,all these bandwagoners will be the first ones to say …” by golly I was wrong about Josh” what clueless fans we have around here…

  28. raphael Says:

    @ j2.0 spot on …

  29. Have A Nice Day Says:

    I don’t see how anyone can say Luck is better than Freeman. Yes, Luck has more yards but he has also thrown almost 100 passes more than Freeman. Within those 100 or so less passes, Free has thrown 5 more TDs and 6 less INTs with practically the same completion percentage, a higher yards/attempt, and a +10% QB rating.

    Luck is not doing anything greater than Freeman.

  30. Tye Says:

    He has started 54 games and he is 23-31 finishing his last game with 0 points on the board against 1 of the leagues worst defenses… He still plays like a rookie more often than not even after 54 starts {VERY slow learner at best!}….

    It has gotten to the point that every time #5 steps onto the field it is disappointing and depressing… I am a Bucs fan NOT an individual fan and for the betterment of the Bucs franchise it should be BYE Freeman!

  31. Macabee Says:


    Short answer. Because you’re not assured of getting anyone better !If Elite QBs were easy to find, everybody would have one.

    Secondly, have all the questons been answered yet? The only thing that worries me about Freeman now is poise. After just being in the game for 4 years now, regardless of whether you have a good team or bad, win or lose, there is a certain amount of I’ve been here/seen that experience that keeps a seasoned QB from getting rattled – and he stiill gets rattled and it clearly affects his game.

    I will also take mild exception to the notion that we have a much improved offense. After FA, it looked that way, but did it turn out that way? After the loss of Nicks and Joseph, is Meredith, Larsen, and the human turnstile Dotson an improvement or a step back?

    Martin is a definite improvement over Blount, but net-net, we got a 1,000yd rusher, we lost a 1,000yd rusher and no one in the background to provide relief down the stretch.

    Vincent Jackson has really been the major improvement. But when he is game planned out of contention, who is the go-to guy? Mike Will is….well…Mike will. He will catch an ocassional jump ball, but still has a difficult time getting separation.

    Like all of us, I’m grabbing at short hairs here. Bottom line before we go in another direction, we need to know for sure the offense is that offense we intended, the new OC is beyond reproach, and the new coach is flexible enough to allow Freeman, to use an Army slogan, be all he can be!

  32. Eric Says:

    I don’t understand why everyone says that Josh Freeman can’t throw short passes. The entire time Greg Olsen was running this offense everyone complained that that is all we threw. Plus after his rookie year he threw for over 60 percent for both 2010 and 2011 which is the benchmark everyone uses to determine accuracy. Now that we have an offense that allows him to throw down the field on high risk/high reward/lower completion rate throws everyone has jumped on the bandwagon that he can’t throw short. Maybe play calling has a little bit to do with it folks. While I like Sullivan’s play calling for the most part once in awhile we get a little to non conservative which doesn’t allow Josh to get into a rhythm because we take too many shots that we don’t need to take down the field instead of using the tight end throws and running back screens to get first downs which until this year Freeman had been fine at.

  33. mcBuc Says:

    Free has good stats for this year. Believe the stats or not they are part of the official record. 2/3 of the nfl would take him in a heart beat.

  34. MadMax Says:

    Well, I jut read that Ryan Mallet is possible for the Browns. They dont like Weeden. Well people, there you go. Lets go after Brandon Weeden if Cleveland is so disgusted with him after only 1 year. Imagine if Weeden had the weapons we have here in Tampa! Bring him in to push Freeman to either get better or be pushed out the door….if anything either one would be a great backup. Go to espn.go .com and compare their college stats. Weeden is superior. And I could look at this, his 1st year in the nfl with that Browns team as a pass.

    And call me names all you want…clueless, bandwagoner…name calling just speaks more about you than it does me. Im for the betterment of this team…wouldnt be spending time on this posting or researching for future possibilities for my Bucs if I didnt care so much.

  35. SteveK Says:

    Today’s NFL requires QB play, consistent and “the reason you win” kind of play.

    The NFL is averaging an all time low for average #of carries per game. Per the soft rule changing, administered by Adolf Goodell and his Gestapo, passing has become pivotal to win in this league. Give me a consistent arm, rather have Nicky Foles. I say draft a 2nd or 3rd round QB, trade free to KC for a #2, and sign Vick. Vick would play hear, of we pay $$.

    We need a consistent thrower out there. A guy that can sling the rock. Anything less is uncivilized, and won’t get us to a Super Bowl. You want a championship, give me an effing QB.

    I agree with Miguel, trade and cut bait while there is still value.

    Freeman is either excellent, or he is dog Sh!t out there. We can’t win a championship with that. Mallet would be a great fit, and so would Vick. Josh can’t process the game quick enough. It is über frustrating considering his physical gifts, and he also doesn’t have Tebow’s will. Tebow has won more playoff games with inferior talent. Cojones, quick mental processing and a golden arm will win for our Bucs. Vick has all of that, yes please!

  36. PRBucFan Says:

    At this point we aren’t asking Free Free to be elite, we are asking him to be average and he can’t even do that. Macabee you are right, but until Free Free can be CONSISTENTLY average your point means nothing. You see, while the history in the league has proven you can win with a manager it has yet to prove you can win with bottom tier below average QB and that is the kind of play Free Free is putting out on the field during this losing streak. If we can figure out how to win without leaning on Free I’m all for it, problem is how?

  37. Bucnjim Says:


    You lost every ounce of credibility when you agreed with Miguel! Foles, Mike Vick, Tebow, Mallot? You are either really stoned; drunk or both. Those five together couldn’t win with the best defense in the league on their side. Please get some help because you’re last rant is very scary and could use some professional advice.

  38. Miguel El Magnifico Says:

    Gosh Freeman=Karlos Pena

    Bye Gosh!

  39. RustyRhino Says:

    I keep hearing Matt Flynn this, that, and the otherthing. We should all remember the other NE backup QB to be traded for. Who wants Matt Cassel now? How long would us “fans” give a new QB to learn this new system? 5-7 games, maybe a season? I say we keep freeman, let him play out his contract, see if he improves, his short falls. For several games this season he looked fantastic, but his play has dropped from that point. Let’s see what we have in his second season under coach Sullivan’s offense. We can then decide do we resign him or move on.

  40. Jeff78280z Says:

    Freeman will be with the bucs for at least one more year. He will finish out his contract and maybe they will Franchise him for 2014. If nobody better comes along. Unless his play improves he isn’t going to be in Tampa much longer. Its a win now league and he has had plenty of time to show what he can do. Freemans bad decisions aren’t a reflection of Shiano or the Qb coach. Freeman was Raheem’s choice. Most head coaches want their own pick at the QB posistion. New head coach usually equals a new Qb.

    I for one am tired of watching Freeman stare down one receiver while another is wide open. Thats just unacceptable for a starting qb in the nfl. Watching Freeman throw off his back foot and relying on his arm strength is just horrible to watch.

  41. raphael Says:

    tired of reading the same moronic,babbling fans who have not 1 clue what they are talking about….fricken hilarious..

  42. SteveK Says:


    Who looked like the “NFL QB” when Foles came to Tampa a few weeks ago, it surely wasnt Freeman?

    Who was the first QB to win a playoff game in Green Bay in multiple decades, Mike Vick.

    Ryan Mallet is a better thrower than Freeman.

    Oh, your boy Tim Tebow thre for 300+ yards, and best the Steelers in the playoffs.

    Vick and Tebow have each won a playoff game, and has Freeman?

    Weren’t we supposed to whoop Philly’s ass a few weeks ago? Which QB looked like dog Sh!t again, can you remind me?

    These next two weeks should help prove our argument. If Freeman can have two losing streaks of 6+games I’m consecutive seasons, them we are on the wrong side of “consistency”.

    We will see if you are simply a Homer in denial, or not? 🙂 merry Christmas!

  43. jarrett Says:

    Mr. lucky the fact that you want to get rid of josh, and you mentioned bringing in tebow to replace him shows how clueless you are. So we would be better if we scored 10 points a game. Look at our offensive numbers, they are good. With tebow we would be blown out 40 to 6 every week. At least you idiots would then realize how much he sucks.

  44. J 2.0 Says:

    I am still baffled by the anti-Freeman sentiment. The kid is 24 years old and supposed to be a all-pro caliber QB?

    Bucs fans, reallize we are the laughingstock of the leaue fan-wise because idiots like you. If we had a decent defense we would’ve had wins against: Giants, Redskins, Eagles, and Falcons. Then we would be 10-4 an we would be building statues in his honor. Throw in a good 2nd half by our defense against the Broncos and we would be 11-3.

    Freeman very well might be a top 5 QB one day. In 2010 he was in rating. Also, how many of you chuckleheads were sayng “We’ll be lucky to go 7-9.” before the season started? I’ll tell you. All of you losers who like to sit in your mother’s basement posting negative posts on JBF’s wall. I for one am an optimist. I think the Bucs will mae a playoff run nxt year, and a deep one in the next 3. I am not ruling out another Super Bowl in the next 5 years.

  45. BucLife4Ever Says:

    Even though I believe that Freeman will be here for awhile but I totally agree with this guy!! Freeman needs to be more consistent, yes I believe that he has a tremendous upside but this guy is very inaccurate with the short easy throws. Competition brings out the best in everyone especially since this is a professional athlete so with that said lets bring in a veteran qb! This is gonna be this cat 4 or 5 year in this league now it’s time that he be held accountable, this might be the best receiving tandem with Williams & Jackson that we ever had combined with muscle hamster!! That’s some fire power now it’s time Freeman hit the targets and stop misfiring or we get a guy that’s capable of getting the job done! Alex Smith perhaps, even Vince Young just bring some competition and yes those two are winners!