Second Round Is The Key To No. 5 Pick

March 30th, 2012

The draft talk really got ramped up this past week when Bucs brass openly waxed poetic over Alabama running back Trent Richardson.

Then, the ultimate draft guru, Mike Mayock of the NFL Network, came out and claimed he made a mistake in grading Richardson and that he is a top-ten if not a top-five pick.

Many Bucs fans, turning a blind eye to the gaping holes in the Bucs secondary, that awful track record of first round running backs and the gnawing truth that the Bucs already have a solid running back, are doing cartwheels in their backyards as if they were just violated by a former Bucs cheerleader with the notion that the Bucs may draft Richardson.

This subject came up yesterday during a segment of “Movin’ the Chains,” co-hosted by Pat Kirwan and Tim Ryan, heard exclusively on SiriusXM NFL Radio.

A Bucs fan called in and was adamant Bucs rock star general manager Mark Dominik will draft Richardson. Kirwan and Ryan are not on the Richardson-to-Bucs bandwagon and are of the mindset that the Bucs need to address a critical need at cornerback with a stud like Morris Claiborne of LSU.

(The conversation began interestingly with Ryan gleefully saying if the Bucs draft Claiborne, troubled Bucs cornerback Aqib Talib will be cut soon after the draft.)

Caller: I think we take the running back because I think he’d fit our offense better.

Pat Kirwan: He’s a terrific player. But again, a Gil Brandt-ism: Look at the next round and where you might find a player. I believe there will be better running backs in the second round than cornerbacks.

Tim Ryan: Go get Doug Martin out of Boise State in round two. You will kill two birds with one stone. You’re going to get a guy who can run and a guy that has the ability to protect in third down and catch the rock out of the backfield.

Now this is an interesting theory Joe never thought of, but explains why Gil Brandt was a legendary general manager.

Let’s say the Bucs are torn between Claiborne and Richardson. If one area (between running backs/cornerbacks) is stronger in the second round, it tips your hand what to draft in the first round.

Martin is an interesting subject. He played in a pass-happy offense so he had to know how to block, and catch, out of the backfield. Oh yeah, and he can run too.

176 Responses to “Second Round Is The Key To No. 5 Pick”

  1. ClayBURN94 Says:

    But will he still be there for us in the second round?

  2. Meh Says:

    If we had gotten Finnegan or Carr instead of Wright I could buy taking Richardson in the first and the best corner in the second. But Wright is a #2 corner, and we need a new #1 corner. By the time the second round falls around the top corners will be gone. There is a big drop off in talent after Kirkpatrick, Jenkins, and maybe Gilmore (depending on who you ask). After that, you’ve got #2 corners (like Dennard) and serious project corners (like Robinson). Neither of those options is going to fix our secondary.

  3. John Says:

    I think the Bucs want the Browns to take Richardson so they can take Claiborne. Claiborne is a bigger need!

  4. Sensiblebuc Says:

    This has been my evaluation all along…except reversed.

    The gap in talent between Claiborne and Gilmore, Hosley, Minnifield and maybe Boykin isn’t as vast as the gap btw Miller, Doug Martin, La Mike James and David Wilson. We can get an excellent corner at the top of round 2 while COMPLETING our offense with T-Rich.

  5. Joe Says:


    If the Bucs are actually thinking of Janoris Jenkins they might as well not waste their time and just keep Aqib Talib. *IF* if the Bucs wash their hands of Talib it’s because of all the headaches and drama he creates. That’s Jenkins in a nutshell.

  6. big007hed Says:

    If not Doug Martin – Isiah Pead, Lamar Miller, LaMichael James
    The Bucs need to draft Claiborne if he is there to help shore up the worse defense in Bucs history! Get a RB in a later round.

  7. Meh Says:

    None of those guys are #1s except maybe Gilmore (who will be gone by #36). Boykin and Hosley are way undersized – they’re very unlikely to become #1 corners. Minnifield is slow and coming off bad injury, plus didn’t have a very remarkable college season. I’ll be ticked if we end up with any of those guys. They’ll be one more inadequate corner to add to our stable of inadequate corners. That is the last thing we need.

    Historically corners taken past the first round have not faired well at all (with some exceptions like Finnegan of course). That is not true with running backs. But this argument is old and tired at this point and nobody is changing their mind.

  8. Meh Says:

    Joe, I completely agree. We aren’t taking Jenkins. I was only commenting on his on field talent level. My point was the talent drop off is huge after those guys, all of whom will be gone by our #36 pick.

  9. BonesMahoney Says:

    There’s no guarantee he will be there. I’ve seen him mocked as high as the early 20s. Looking to the later rounds isn’t a bad idea though. If the Bucs feel there are enough RBs they would want in rounds 2-7 then take Claiborne at 5. If they feel that way about CB then take Richardson at 5(this is assuming both are available).

  10. kaput Says:

    If he’s such a great prospect, why is he a first round target?

    People are willing to convince themselves of anything, aren’t they?

    If Richardson is a ‘once in a five year running back’ – like many scouts are suggesting that this kid is – then draft him. If he’s the next Adrian Peterson, imagine how difficult the Bucs offense would be to defend. Go ahead, I’ll wait while you ponder the thought . . .

    You see what I mean? This is an offensive league, and if we can field a top five offense then we’re going to be difficult to deal with over the next half dozen years or so. We don’t need HOF defensive backs, we can find serviceable guys in later rounds of the draft or through free agency.

  11. tonytwocents Says:


    I’m starting to think that you get a kick out of throwing us these Claiborne/Richardson articles. Just so you can sit back with a cold one in one hand, popcorn in the other, and saying “excellent” while we tear each other a new one. For Shame!

  12. Northend Says:

    If no T Rich in the first it will be at least 3rd round before we address rb .LB and Corner first

  13. Meh Says:

    It may be an offensive league, but when you are down 21 points in the first quarter your star running back is going to be riding the pine for most of the game.

    We had the worst defense in Bucs history last year. We’ve added Wright, but are probably losing Talib. That’s a wash at best. We lost Sean Jones and Geno Hayes, but didn’t replace either one. That’s where we stand right now on defense.


  14. jvato24 Says:

    Doug Martin is actually my favorite player in the whole draft !!

    The guy is just Ray Rice + 15 LBs … Maybe better .. Just My opinion of course.

  15. jvato24 Says:

    “are doing cartwheels in their backyards as if they were just violated by a former Bucs cheerleader with the notion that the Bucs may draft Richardson”

    Thats friggin funny because its so true!!

  16. big007hed Says:

    I agree with Meh entirely on this

  17. Fatmosh Says:

    We had the worst defense in Bucs history last year for two reasons:

    1) A number of key players were hurt
    2) The team quit

    Our defense still has some talented players, and should be evaluated based on their play in the first 6 games of last year or on 2010. Based on the defense ACTUALLY PLAYING, we have middle of the road defense talent.

    My point is, you don’t draft based on need. You draft based on the best available player. In that regard, if Richardson is there, you take him. Viola, now you have a Top 10 offense. If not, you take Claiborne, and now you suddenly have a good group of defensive lineman and corners.

    Let’s not forget folks, we’re mostly in a win-win situation here. We’re getting one of the two players. Both or which are very good players.

  18. rdbucfan Says:


    I agree with you that you don’t pass up on a Trent Richardson and I’ve been saying for days that the best CB’s in Bucs history have all been taken after the 1st round. I didn’t want McCoy because he doesn’t tackle. The same can be said for Claiborne, he is close to the bottom of the top prospects when it comes to tackling. Not to mention the short amount of time he was required to stay with his coverage due to the extreme pressure his d line was putting on opposing QB’s.

    I personally don’t see why anybody is saying that Claiborne is elite and even better that Patrick Peterson from last year. I just don’t see it.

  19. mjmoody Says:

    Waaay too much dog poo in my back yard to be doing cartwheels. Schiano said we are going to get bigger and meaner on both sides of the ball. I’m thinking new coach, new mentality, new system–this year, 8 wins sounds like a fair goal. (As Joe says: relearning) I’m not saying, “Don’t draft today what you can draft tomorrow.” But big picture: Superbowl within 5 years. FA & Head Coach contracts say so. No, I don’t want to see Biggers whiffing on the deep ball anymore. But, need v. player. The CBA made sure the 5th overall won’t kill a team anymore. When do the Bucs’ get their LB? At 3? We Can’t buy all the groceries this year. Maybe they should just get half the list with name brands, as opposed to trying to buying the whole list with Publix store brands?

  20. Joe Says:


    My point is, you don’t draft based on need. You draft based on the best available player.

    Joe doesn’t buy that for a second.

    If for some weird, unexplained reason RGIII fell to the Bucs you’d advocate drafting him?

    The Bucs are looking at major holes in a secondary — solid bet both Ronde and Talib are gone next year; Talib maybe sooner. You are in a division facing Brees, Ryan and Newton a total of six times a season for years to come.

    Drafting Mo Claiborne is as big of a no-brainer as Joe has ever seen.

  21. kaput Says:

    I like Claiborne, but top flight runners have larger impacts on teams than do defensive backs.

    Think Freeman. Think about his future and about what will make his life easier.

    A rookie defensive back is not going to have near the impact that a 1400-1600 yard runner will have, it’s just that simple. We don’t need to address all of the team’s holes this off-season, we’re not winning the Super Bowl next season regardless of who we pick.

  22. kaput Says:

    If Joe think drafting Claiborne is a no-brainer, then Joe needs to step away from the hookah.

  23. rdbucfan Says:


    Getting to the QB should be more of a concern to Schiano and Co. than a CB at #5 not named Deon Sanders.

  24. BonesMahoney Says:

    Joe you like to throw out the Packers, Patriots and Steelers as examples of how the Bucs should do things. You know those teams almost always go Best Player Available right? It is the best draft strategy regardless of if you are a 16-0 team or a 0-16 team.

  25. Matthew Says:

    Kaput if you think a rookie RB is coming in and running for 1400-1600 yards is written in stone, then you also need to put down the hookah.

  26. Joe Says:


    Joe you like to throw out the Packers, Patriots and Steelers as examples of how the Bucs should do things. You know those teams almost always go Best Player Available right?

    Yeah, “almost always.” And Joe isn’t convinced Richardson is a better athlete than Claiborne in any way shape or form.

    Claiborne is elite, a kick returner as well, at a major, major need for the Bucs in a passing league, in a quarterback rich division.

    No-brainer of the highest order.

    Way too many factors and recent history for Joe to ever draft a running back in the first round. Especially with a porous secondary.

    Oh, and the Bucs already have a running back.

  27. Meh Says:

    And the RB coming off knee surgery is not the BPA.

  28. Capt. Tim Says:

    Tim Ryan is the smartest analyst in the entire country! He is so much smarter than than the rest, that it’s just flabbergasting!!

    And he is absolutely correct here!!


  29. Fatmosh Says:

    @Joe: BPA should trump need unless it is a position that would prevent the player from getting on the field (e.g., QB, C, P, K, arguably MLB).

    The goal of this team should be to fill the roster with the best players. If you, over a number of years, consistently pass on better prospects for ones of need, you will not maximize the overall talent of your team.

    Last year Blount played less than 50% of the snaps on offense. So yeah, I’d say adding the best back since Peterson would be a good idea.

  30. Hawaiian Buc Says:


    Not sure if you knew this, but Richardson is a better kick returner than Claiborne, so that kind of throws that theory out the window. Claiborne isn’t even the best KR on LSU!!!

  31. raphael Says:

    what degree of violation we talkin here??? Hmmm? Martin ,Wilson or Miller would be awesome in the 2nd after Claiborne in the 1st

  32. rdbucfan Says:


    Brandon Boykin has 2 less int’s, more KO and Punt return TD’s and a ton more tackles than Morris Claiborne and he played on a team with a front 7 not even half as good as that of LSU.

  33. Matthew Says:

    This is the big Joe Bucs fan message board war.
    The Richardson old school Parcells, pound the football/smash mouth camp vs. the new school elite passing attack or pass rush/pass defense Claiborne camp. If this was the NFL 20 years ago Richardson is the pick, but times have changed you can either adjust your strategy/views or get left behind.

  34. mister V Says:

    Sooooo, are you saying instead of taking a poor man’s version of Mo Claiborne, The bucs should take a poor man’s version of Trent Richardson ? Did Gil Brandt, also note that this draft is “DEEPER” at corner than at running back ? Oh and line backer, the position that the local press keeps crying about is thin also, remember no 4th rd. pick,so if the don’t get a lb in first three rounds then you may as well bring back geno hayes………(perish the thought!!!!)

  35. Fatmosh Says:

    @Joe: Claiborne is a very good corner, and I will be happy if he is a part of this team.

    But almost every single analyst says Claiborne is hands down the best CB of the draft. But they say Richardson is hands down the best RB to come out since 2007.

    A CB as good as Claiborne (such as Joe Haden or Patrick Peterson) come out every year or two.

  36. Hawaiian Buc Says:

    How do you become an elite KR in college when you have 22 returns at a 25 yard average – in college??? Just think, with that average, we will start at an average of the 22 yard line!!!!!!! We must pick him!

  37. Matthew Says:

    Look at who is considered the “elite/Top RBs or Teams with primary Single RBs not multi-skilled backfields” & their teams who built around them:
    MJD Jaguars
    Adrian Peterson Vikings
    Chris Johnson Titans
    Jamal Charles Chiefs
    Steven Jackson Rams
    Darren McFadden Raiders
    Marshawn Lynch Seahawks
    Micheal Turner Falcons
    Peyton Hillis (Previously) Browns

    Ain’t a whole lot of winning going on with these ELITE Mega Star RBs, but hey let’s ignore all the signs that the league has changed & just draft with outdated thinking! Claiborne/Blackmon or Trade back please Bucs.

  38. ColoradoBuc Says:

    Believe in Blount!! He is a phsical specimen who with better coaching will improve big time this year. The coah has already put him on notice for fumbling. There is ALWAYS value at the RB position in later rounds. Richardson may be a great back,but the Bucs reside in the NFC South. We have to face Brees and Ryan twice a year (Sorry Cam you haven’t proved yourself to be mentioned with these two yet). Our secondary is attrocious, Claiborne is the obvious choice if he is available!! We also need to address the Safety position at some point. I’ve sadi it before this is not going to be fixed this year, the Bucs need another CB, Safety help, and a couple linebackers. The Bucs at their best are a Defensive powerhouse, not an offensive juggernaut. Please rock star gm Domminick(stole it from you cause I love it)…please…please..please Do NOT draft Richardson…PLEASE!

  39. Matthew Says:

    In the modern NFL elite teams have least one of 3 things, Elite Passing Attack, Elite Pass Rush, or Elite Pass Defense.
    Elite Passing Attacks- Packers, Saints, Patriots, Eagles, Chargers (Formerly the Colts)
    Elite Pass Rush/Pass Defense- Texans, Giants, Pittsburgh, New York Jets, 49ers
    Of all these teams only two have a legitimate top “elite RB”, the 49ers (Frank Gore) & Arian Foster (Undrafted).

  40. Bucfish Says:

    I’m on record as being in the “Draft TR” crowd, but I also love Doug Martin. It will come down how often we plan to play man-to-man out of the assumed Cover 2 base. If it is more than 50%, then Claiborn makes more sense in Round 1 (if they project Martin to be available in Round 2). If not, then you don’t need to draft a corner that high – just like in the mid-to-late 90s when we picked up Abraham in the 3rd, Barber in the 3rd, & BK in the 2nd.

    Brandon Boykin will be a guy available in the 3rd that is a very physical corner perfect for a team that plays the Cover 2 predominantly. Then, you could use your second rounder on an outside linebacker like LaVonte David. TR, David, and Boykin in rounds 1, 2, and 3, respectively – that’s my hope! That would give you 2 1/2 new starters (Boykin could “start” as the nickel corner).

  41. tonytwocents Says:

    A bit of logic for all you T Rich groupies. You say he will put our offense in the top 10.

    Well you do realize that the NFL has turned into a pass happy league. And if you’re looking to upgrade the offense, the more logical approach would be Blackmon – giving Freeman his 3 WR set.

    As far as Blount, he will out perform your love interest this year. Whether he’s with us or the Browns. Guaranteed.

  42. tonytwocents Says:


  43. Fatmosh Says:

    @tonytwocents: We just signed Nicks, who is a great run blocker. We just signed Jackson, so our 3WR is already set: Jackson, Williams, and Benn (plus Winslow). We don’t need another wideout.

    With T Rich, we have two excellent backs, better than what Carolina has in Williams/Stewart.

    We still have a young QB learning. We need a running game. We need a back that can block as well as run.

    I won’t be crying if we draft Claiborne, but I’ll be more excited if we draft Richardson.

  44. Fatmosh Says:

    BTW, I think this is all moot: Richardson will likely to to the Browns at #4.

  45. tonytwocents Says:

    You just don’t get it. Richardson won’t even be there at 5. He’s probably on zillow right now looking for a nice pad he can live in during his 5 year NFL stint.

  46. Fatmosh Says:

    @Matthew: BTW, what you listed is a number of teams without great QBs. THAT is why they are not winning.

  47. tonytwocents Says:

    But Fatmosh, with both Blount & Rich in the backfield, expect each to average between 10-15 carries. Thats not enough for either to get into a rhythm.

    If we just stick to looking for a 3rd down back, Blount can get his 20 touches, and maybe more if he is coached up to pass protect (the guy can already catch).

    Plus he has never had a full offseason, and look what he has done!

  48. rdbucfan Says:

    To all of those that keep saying that we need to draft for need and defense and this is a pass happy league and we shouldn’t draft TR because RB’s are a dime a dozen.

    Do any of you know who won the Superbowl last year?

    Do you know where their defense ranked last year?

    Have any of you listened to Coach Schiano?

    We are going to be a ground and pound RUNNING football team and use play action to tear the top off. We are not going to be a passing team.

    Do you know who Coach Schiano’s top advisor is? I’ll answer this Butch Davis.

    Do you know where he won Superbowl rings? Dallas.

    It looks like Coach Schiano, consultant Butch Davis and Rock Star GM Mark Dominik are trying to rebuild the 90’s Dallas Cowboys with the triplets (Emmitt Smith, Michael Irvin and Troy Aikman) with Vincent Jackson, Josh Freeman and who knows at RB. I’m just saying that you need to remember we will never be the Saints, Lions, Patriots or Packers offense.

  49. Hawaiian Buc Says:


    Are you suggesting these teams are no good because they have great RB’s??? So maybe we should just line up you and Captain Tim in the backfield, since if you have a good RB you will be a bad team. Too ridiculous for words.

  50. Matthew Says:

    @Fatmosh The Texans, Jets, 49ers don’t have elite QBs. Also, thank you for proving my point for me, the league now revolves around Elite Passing Attacks or the Defenses who can stop them. Show me the perrenial contender who’s best skill set is running the football? (I’ll save you the reasearch, there isn’t one) You just have to be able to run the ball effectively (which blount can do & improve with a FA add or 2nd or 3rd round drafted speed back) & either sling the football like crazy or play elite defense. Elite RBs don’t win championships in the modern NFL, facts are facts.

  51. deminion Says:


  52. Fatmosh Says:

    @tonytwocents After listening to Schiano, it sounds like we’ll be a run heavy team. Getting Richardson 18 carries and 3-4 catches and Blount 12 carries per game isn’t the worst thing in the world.

    I won’t be broken up if we get Claiborne in the first and a third down back in rounds 2-3 though.

  53. deminion Says:


    Preachin to the choir amen

  54. Matthew Says:

    @Haiwaiin nice strawman argument. No one argued that having a good RB is a “Bad Thing”; you invented that statement in your brain. That style of arguing may work on the children you debate but not with adults. The argument is that you ‘DON’T NEED AN ELITE RB’ to win in the NFL these days. Refute that with actual ‘facts’ then we can have an adult debate/discussion.

  55. rdbucfan Says:


    I’ve been banging that drum for a while here trying to get everybody to understand that a good to great pass rush makes average CB’s look great. The highest drafted CB in Bucs history Aqib Talib, isn’t even one of the Top 4 CB’s to ever play in Tampa and the top CB’s in history have all be drafted after the 1st round.

  56. 941-Bucs Says:

    We need a treu #1 CB and a #2 Rb. I think the choice is obvious.

  57. tonytwocents Says:

    Fatmush says:

    “@Matthew: BTW, what you listed is a number of teams without great QBs. THAT is why they are not winning.”

    His post made all the sense in the world. And we did what we had to do to make our QB great by adding the missing speed element. He always had a running game. Just poor blocking, and worse play calling.

  58. Hawaiian Buc Says:

    “Well you do realize that the NFL has turned into a pass happy league. And if you’re looking to upgrade the offense, the more logical approach would be Blackmon – giving Freeman his 3 WR set.”


    Where to begin? First off, you are underestimating how important a RB like Richardson will mean to the passing game. When a QB goes back to pass, he generally needs either extra protection and/or a check down – hence a running back that can do those things is very important. Also, a great running game keeps guys in the box, thus giving more one on one coverage to the WR’s (which FYI, is a good thing).

    As for Blackmon, before the V-Jax signing, I wanted him the most. However, WR’s aren’t just interchangeable. V-Jax and Blackmon are the same type WR’s, so they would play the same position (which is Mike Williams old position). Remember Joey Galloway? Besides, if we have a running back that doesn’t trot onto the field with a big “we are going to run now because I’m in the game” sign, we may actually be able to cause problems for defenses. Who knows, maybe we could even run the ball on 3rd and 1??? (by the way, I say all this in fun. I’m not trying to take a shot at you or your opinion, because it is a valid one. just having fun debating my favorite topic.)

  59. rdbucfan Says:

    The top CB’s in Bucs history have all been drafted after the 1st round. I know there are CB’s in NFL history drafted in the 1st round that have been stellar and HOF CB’s.

  60. Fatmosh Says:

    @Matthew: I agree that elite RBs don’t win championships.

    So…elite corners win championships then?

    No, wait, it’s QBs like you said. The only way we’re going to win a championship is if Freeman develops into an elite QB. You know what helps QBs develop? A running game.

  61. tonytwocents Says:

    @Fattmosh again

    You have to take anything a coach says before the draft with a grain of salt. This is a poker game between 32 players, and Schiano’s got a seat at the table.

  62. Hawaiian Buc Says:

    Does everyone realize that the Giants lost 6 in a row this year until…………they actually found a running game!!!!!! The won the SB because ………….they ran the ball better. They pounded NE play after play, and then what do you know, the passing game opened up!!!!

  63. BonesMahoney Says:

    @Fatmosh and Matthew. It isn’t even that they don’t have great QBs. It is that their QB play has been BAD. The year Adrian Peterson had good QB play(2009) the Vikings went to the NFC Championship game. Steven Jackson is probably the biggest example of wasted talent ever. One of the best backs in the game and the Rams failed over and over in the draft and with their coaches.

    Peyton Hillis? He had one good year and it was just solid. McFadden is injury prone. Jamaal Charles had a couple decent seasons but nothing special(all 3 of those guys are bad examples of “elite” backs). Marshawn Lynch led the Seahawks over the Saints in the playoffs a couple years ago. The Falcons have been in the playoffs a couple times with Turner as their lead offensive weapon. Chris Johnson has been in the playoffs with the Titans.

    But since they haven’t won a Superbowl that means the Bucs shouldn’t have a great running game? You realize the Bucs haven’t been in the playoffs since 2007 and haven’t won a Playoff game since what, 2002? Give me the success that Lynch, Peterson, Turner and Johnson have had over anything the Bucs have done since they won the Superbowl.

  64. rdbucfan Says:

    941 – Bucs, who is our #1 rb?

    Don’t say Blount because he can’t stay on the field and has fumble issues 9 in his 2 years in Tampa. TR has 1 in his career at Bama in his freshman season no less.

    Who is going to make that 3rd and 1 run for the Bucs, it sure isn’t Blount who tiptoes to the line of scrimmage and since Greg Olson the Benn’d around is no longer available (sorry, stole that one from you Joe but I love it so much I will never forget it) that leaves our franchise QB and I don’t want him taking that kind of beating and James from Oregon or some other so called 3rd down back isn’t going to cut it either.

  65. Fatmosh Says:

    @tonytwocents: Freeman has ‘always had a running game’??

    Yes, we were 8th overall in 2010. But 23rd in 2009 and 30th last year.

    With Richardson, we’re likely Top 5. That takes a lot of pressure off the QB. Which yes, helps him develop.

  66. tonytwocents Says:


    All I’ve been saying is that I have zero doubt that Blount will be able to pass block and bring in check down passes – hell, he probably already knows how to do these things but Olsen was to busy slicking his hair back in the mirror to notice.

    As far as the Blackmon thing, I realize we don’t need him. But I was making a point that he would make our offense better for Freeman by loading up target options where he wouldn’t even have to check down to his RB.

  67. Fatmosh Says:

    tonytwocents: Oh, I agree. I still think Schiano’s offense will be one that tries to establish the running game.

    But like I said, this is probably moot. The Browns will recognize Richardson is a great back and take him at #4.

  68. jvato24 Says:

    Please anyone find me one RB drafted atleast 7 years ago … so 2005 that is still a #1 and effective RB ???

    And I believe this is actually Trents 2nd Surgery .. We dont want a RB that needs a Knee touchup every offseason !!

  69. tonytwocents Says:


    you know who else had 9 fumbles in his first 2 years? None other than Mr Michael Alstott. (And I believe Blount is Alstott 2.0)

    The reason is these guys keep chugging and refuse to go down. So the longer you’re in play, the chances of a fumble increase. Especially when you’re dragging guys five-seven yards with you.

  70. Macabee Says:

    Joe, I don’t think it’s fair to compare Jenkins to Talib. They’re accused of using two entirely different weapon! (Jenkins four kids).

  71. Hawaiian Buc Says:

    @Bones Mahoney,

    Great post. I find it great that so many people think the key to success in the NFL is to NOT have a running game! It is meaningless in their eyes. If we had the opportunity to sign AP, Chris Johnson, Arian Foster, etc. they wouldn’t want them because we would obviously be a worse team as a result, lol.

    All the anti-Tr guys point out these “facts”: this is a passing league (true, but they ignore the fact that a RB GREATLY helps the passing game), Blount is the only RB we need (love him, but he’s fumble prone, can’t block, struggles in pass protection, can’t run in short yardage situations, leaves his feet which greatly increases his chance for injury, and still has character issues), TR is slow (completely stupid argument – watch him blow past their beloved Claiborne in the National Championship game), Claiborne is a shut-down corner (he may very well be, but he won’t be for a couple years. I don’t want to lose for 2 more years to finally get a shut down corner, but in the meantime losing Freeman because our offense still sucks), you don’t pick a RB that early (how many CB’s are picked that early? How many current CB’s are worth a top 5 pick? Not many, if any at all), and Claiborne is an elite KR (without elite stats, ignoring that TR’s KR numbers are better). These people that knock TR have never even seen the guy play, so how educated is their opinion? If they want to lie to me and say they have, then point out one weakness that he has. Go ahead, I’ll be here all day waiting.

  72. tonytwocents Says:


    we were so sh!tty with our running game because we were already blown out by the 1st quarter which made us give up on the run. you should know this dude.

  73. jvato24 Says:

    2005 1 1 2 2 Ronnie Brown Dolphins Auburn
    2 1 4 4 Cedric Benson Bears Texas
    3 1 5 5 Cadillac Williams Buccaneers Auburn
    4 2 12 44 J.J. Arrington Cardinals California
    5 2 22 54 Eric Shelton Panthers Louisville
    6 3 1 65 Frank Gore 49ers Miami FL <~~ Starting to be used part time
    7 3 9 73 Vernand Morency Texans Oklahoma State
    8 3 13 77 Ryan Moats Eagles Louisiana Tech
    9 3 37 101 Maurice Clarett Broncos Ohio State <~~ haha
    10 4 8 109 Marion Barber Cowboys Minnesota <~~ Retired
    11 4 9 110 Brandon Jacobs Giants Southern Illinois
    12 4 11 112 Ciatrick Fason Vikings Florida
    13 4 19 120 Manuel White Redskins UCLA
    14 4 26 127 Alvin Pearman Jaguars Virginia
    15 4 29 130 Darren Sproles Chargers Kansas State STILL EFFECTIVE, But not used much in first few seasons. Never between the tackles.
    16 5 6 142 Damien Nash Titans Missouri
    17 5 22 158 Justin Green Ravens Montana
    18 6 8 182 Cedric Houston Jets Tennessee
    19 6 27 201 Deandra Cobb Falcons Michigan State
    20 7 7 221 Rick Razzano Buccaneers Mississippi
    21 7 8 222 Nehemiah Broughton Redskins Citadel
    22 7 22 236 Lionel Gates Bills Louisville
    23 7 29 243 Anthony Davis Colts Wisconsin
    24 7 30 244 Noah Herron Steelers Northwestern

  74. tonytwocents Says:

    Fatmosh said:

    “But like I said, this is probably moot. The Browns will recognize Richardson is a great back and take him at #4.”


  75. Hawaiian Buc Says:


    I don’t know about that. Blount had all of like 4 catches in college, so there is probably something there. A check down RB needs to be quick and shifty, because they are usually catching the ball while stopped. They need to be able to accelerate quickly, which I’m sure you would agree is an obvious weakness to Blount’s game (no knock on him, he’s just too damn big). Perhaps he can improve at pass protecting, but I’m not sure if he will ever be really good at it. Not sure he has the mentality, although I’m completely guessing on that.

  76. Sensiblebuc Says:

    Glad to see Matthew is up to his old tricks again. Welcome back buddy!

    Revis – No playoffs
    Asomugha/Samuel – No playoffs
    Pat Peterson – No playoffs
    Finnegan – No playoffs
    B. Carr – No playoffs
    John Joesph – 1 and done
    Dunta/Grimes – 1 and done
    Leon Hall (?) – 1 and done

    Pats (Arrington), Packers (Tramon Toast Williams), Giants (Corey Webster?), Niners (Carlos Rogers), Ravens (Jimmy Smith), Saints (No clue), Steelers (2nd or 3rd rounder Ike Taylor), Lions (don’t make me laugh) all have top flight shutdown corners right?

    See what I did there?

  77. Joe Says:


    I find it great that so many people think the key to success in the NFL is to NOT have a running game! It is meaningless in their eyes.

    Of course it’s important to have a running game, but not with the No. 5 pick, not when you throw all the variables in the Bucs find themselves in.

    Drafting Richardson with the No. 5 pick is no less than irresponsible.

    How many times will Richardson touch the ball when the Bucs are down 20 points in the second quarter?

    Even if the Bucs had an average defense, Joe would be OK with Richardson. But they had a historically horrible defense last year and with major holes in the secondary and linebacker.

  78. tonytwocents Says:

    As far as Blounts fumbling issue, all we need is Tim McGraw from Friday Night Lights to teach him ball security. On second thought, that would end with another knockout.

  79. jvato24 Says:

    I dont throw this list out because of talent … But for how many carries are these guys seeing now ??? YPC ?? Most of those RBs are gone !!

  80. bucbelevr Says:

    Wow, lotta comments. As many above have said, Martin and Lamar Miller will both be gone before our 2nd round pick. LaMichael James is by no means, a substitute for Richardson. Mo Claiborne is a great player, but we do now have excellent coaching for CB’s and in our defensive coaching staff as a whole.

    Richardson adds an awful lot to our offensive options in gameplanning, stud production over Alabama tenure, no fumbles. The wealth of what he would add to our offensive potential, combined with pieces we just signed in place, and for Freeman, it’s too much to pass up completing that future for the Bucs offense.

    We could however, draft a decent CB in round 2 who plays man coverage, and coach him up furiously with our new CB coach and staff. All that could have come up in the article.

  81. Hawaiian Buc Says:


    good point, hard to argue. However, nowadays you can’t really plan on 7 years down the road anymore. Free agency pretty much kills that. If we get 7 all-pro years out of TR, we will have had a great pick. I’ll worry about 2019 another day.

  82. Have A Nice Day Says:

    “They won the superbowl because they ran the ball better”
    …….I’m sure the fact they punished Brady on every other snap had far less to do with it, right? lmao Disillusion to the max.

  83. Sensiblebuc Says:


  84. bucbelevr Says:

    With the Eagles losing their LT today to a torn Achilles, maybe they need to trade up??…like to #5 to get a replacement LT? The Mock Drafts I’ve seen have Riley Reiff possibly going #7 to Jax, and #10 to Buffalo, and Jonathan Martin from Stanford at #10 and #13 to Arizona. Maybe they move up from 15 to 5?…Rest of LT seem to drop off quite a bit.

  85. Hawaiian Buc Says:

    “Drafting Richardson with the No. 5 pick is no less than irresponsible.”


    That’s your opinion, but many disagree (smart people, not me). Our defense was middle of the pack for the first 6 games last year with a terrible defensive coordinator. Injuries and a lack of depth are really what killed us (plus players seemed to quit, which won’t happen with Schiano). Depth should not be addressed with the #5 pick, I think we can all agree on that. You don’t think a guy like Boykins can be a good corner in this league? His numbers match up very well with Claiborne, with much less help around him. His return numbers embarrass those of Claiborne. I’ve seen Claiborne play quite a bit and I do like him, but he does have flaws in his game. The same can’t be said for TR. He’s the Rachel Watson of RB’s: flawless!!!

  86. ksneil2000 Says:

    If we want a running back by committee then waiting until round 2 is a no-brainer. We could get Doug Martin or Lamar Miller to pair with Blount. Take Claiborne in the first and we’re set. Wouldn’t even be surprised if a guy like Lamichael James would be available in round 3 if we wanted to use round 2 for a linebacker.

  87. Hawaiian Buc Says:

    ““They won the superbowl because they ran the ball better”
    …….I’m sure the fact they punished Brady on every other snap had far less to do with it, right? lmao Disillusion to the max.”


    It was a combination of both. But if you watched the game, you could see the Giants were punishing the NE defense, and they really had no answer for it. They didn’t start to get to Brady until the 4th quarter. So who’s delusional here???

  88. Hawaiian Buc Says:

    This is so much fun. Can we have another Richardson – Claiborne debate article tomorrow too Joe??

  89. Have A Nice Day Says:

    Drafting a RB with the #5 to be a part of a rb committee in a pass happy league = complete and sound logic….. smh

  90. ColoradoBuc Says:

    rdbucfan- Legarette fumbled twice in college and lost only one of those. You can’t really compare the pro career stats with college stats…that is the point of this response.
    3rd and 1, i’m pretty sure #5 can lean on that.

  91. Have A Nice Day Says:

    Brady was pressured 19 times in that game over the entire game. Your 4th quarter comment doesn’t hold up to the actual history you are attempting to rewrite.

  92. bucfanjeff Says:

    I’m in the T Rich corner, but wouldn’t mind at all if we draft Clairborne.

    Assuming we take Claiborne, what will upset me is if we don’t take a RB in Round 2 (even if it means we have to trade up from Round 3 pick.

    We have ZERO depth at RB, ZERO….as we saw last year.

  93. Have A Nice Day Says:

    Anyways, even by your rewritten history, their running game was less than impressive. Bradshaw and Jacobs only combined for 109 yards on the ground.

  94. Hawaiian Buc Says:

    So we are counting pressures as an actual stat now?? Damn, where’s Thomas when I need him, he (for once) would be backing me up on this one. How many sacks did they have? Pressures is a judgement call. Besides, when did half of those pressures happen? Oh wait, the fourth quarter!!!

  95. Capt. Tim Says:

    Tim Ryan was dead on the mark. A few knowledgeable fans agreed with him
    He was especially spot on about dumping that useless thug Talib. Liked the way he sorta laughed when he mentioned dumping that guy!! Just proves why Tim, in addition to an illustrious career in the league, has become the intelligent analyst, that the rest listen to!!

    Those of you still arguing about Richardson- most of same ones that said we HAD to draft ” no impact Ingram” last year- well, yer gonna be disappointed.
    Like “Sporting News” is predicting- Richardson will go in the late Teens
    RBs don’t have much impact in the pass happy NFL.
    They are devalued.
    We have a better back than him already.

    You’ll figure it out eventually- or remain clueless.
    Just listen to Ryan- he’ll keep you from looking stupid!

  96. jvato24 Says:

    I actually like Trent Richardson as a runner … But a Big time CB is critical .. Barber will be gone and I dont see the Bucs paying Talib 9 million per season after this year.

    If we drafted TR I wouldnt be irate, but wonder if it was really the best value and I do worry about his knee problem.

    Eric Wright and Ej Biggers and Myron Lewis if we go T-Rich
    Leggarrete Blount and Doug Martin if we go Claiborne.

    I know I am in the minority but I think Doug Martin is a Great RB. I dont expect anyone to agree with me on Martin, but mark my words Doug Martin will put up very similar #s to TR through his career if both stay healthy.

  97. Hawaiian Buc Says:

    “Anyways, even by your rewritten history, their running game was less than impressive. Bradshaw and Jacobs only combined for 109 yards on the ground.”


    And what was NE’s totals? So running for 100 yards on the ground is nothing now? Interesting. How many times last year did we run for 100 yards? You also forget that the Giants ran for a TD, IN THE REDZONE!!!!! Holy cow, could that mean that a running game actually benefits teams in the redzone? I don’t believe it, no way!

  98. Hawaiian Buc Says:

    “Those of you still arguing about Richardson- most of same ones that said we HAD to draft ” no impact Ingram” last year- well, yer gonna be disappointed.
    Like “Sporting News” is predicting- Richardson will go in the late Teens
    RBs don’t have much impact in the pass happy NFL.”


    Answer this: have you ever seen richardson play? Thought so. Your opinion is uneducated.

  99. Hawaiian Buc Says:

    “Legarette fumbled twice in college and lost only one of those.”


    Well if he didn’t fumble in the defense-heavy Pac 10, then that’s good enough for me.

  100. tonytwocents Says:

    Claiborne or Trade

    If you say otherwise, get your lube, and start rubbing one out to Richy’s highlight reels.

    Why are we still TALKING ABOUT THIS?!


  101. Have A Nice Day Says:

    The pressures happened pretty much evenly over the whole game. There were 2 sacks, 5 hits, and 12 additional hurries. It is easy to understand how those are considered pass pressure.

    You realize you aren’t on the right side of this argument so now you are trying to dismiss relevant statistics in an attempt to save face. That might work in grade school, but not in the grown up world.

  102. tonytwocents Says:


    How about an investigative story on what Mrs Jeff Garcia has been up to?

    Please………..No……More………Richardson……….Articles…………For the love of God……..Please!

  103. Hawaiian Buc Says:

    Uh no, they didn’t happen evenly over the whole game. New England had 3 sacks, so what? Like I said, it was a combination of the two: putting pressure on Brady and a running game. How am I on the wrong side. You then pointed out they ONLY had 109 yards rushing, as if that is nothing! Excuse me, running for 100 yards in an NFL game is having a good running game!! Not sure how you don’t know that. I also pointed out how NE didn’t run the ball well, and I get no argument there. I guess I’ll never join the grown up world.

  104. Hawaiian Buc Says:



  105. Have A Nice Day Says:

    100 yards by two players is not impressive at all. 109 yards a game is less than the NFL median. In fact, no team averaged less yards a game than the Giants. lmao You expose more and more flaws in your thoughts the more you write.

  106. Bobby Says:

    I’ve been touting Doug Martin since the combine. I agree that we come out better with Claiborne and Martin than Richardson and whoever we can get in round 2. With our O-line Martin will be Ray Rice Jr. and we’ll have a stud CB in Claiborne. I don’t agree that you draft BPA, I think you draft ‘smart’ and address needs as wisely as possible. Do we ‘need’ Trent Richardson? NO. We ‘need’ a CB and a good one. We ‘need’ another RB but Doug Martin will fill the need just fine. He can be an every down back in the event Blount goes down and he will push Blount to be the starter. My bet will be that he will easily beat Blount out for starting back and Blount will be the fill in. Take Claiborne at#5 and grab Martin with the 4th pick in round 2.

  107. Have A Nice Day Says:

    NE had only 30 more total rushing yards on 9 more attempts. New England averaged 4.4 yards a carry while the Giants averaged 4.1….. Neither is impressive and neither was anymore dominating than the other.

  108. JT Says:

    TR will improve our defense more then Claiborne… Our D was horrid last year and 1 DB wont change that. TR will keep our offense on the field therefore keeping our defense off the field and the opposing offense off the field.

  109. bigblacbuc99 Says:

    Look. This is simple. I was on the MoClaiborne bandwagon TOO . But I got to thinking. I ahave Blount. But BLOUNT AND RICHARDSON??? WHO COULD STOP THAT? And filling up the box to ATTEMPT that, VJAX is going long !!! A true 2 headed BEAST, with AERIAL SUPPORT!!! Then, I got to thinking- Trade DOWN, Between TRich and Tannehill, SOMEONE is gonna give up the gold to move up. So I’m thinking slide down in 1st round, grab Kuechly. Get 2 2nd rounders pick up LMJ or Miller, AND THEN package up a trade for a CB …. Any way you slice it, you NEED TRICH in OUR equation- BOTTOM LINE!!!

  110. Bobby Says:

    Where in the world does anybody see any reputable mock drafts that show Miller and Martin going in the first round?? I look at them almost daily and they are always in round two and not near the top. The only RB besides Richardson ‘possibly’ going in rd. 1 at the bottom would be David Wilson from V. Tech.

  111. Hawaiian Buc Says:

    109 yards is running the ball well and controlling the clock, which is exactly what they did. I’m sorry if you don’t think that had an effect on the game. As for them being last, that is true (and good stat by the way, gotta give credit where credit is due). However, look at game by game. Their running game picked up tremendously after their losing streak.

  112. jvato24 Says:

    LoL … Yeah … Like it has to be a Richardson thread to start a TR-MC debate … It could be an article about the next Hooters party …

    “As long as those bastards dont draft Claiborne” … and then it begins

  113. Sensiblebuc Says:

    Bucs Draftee Scheduled Visits per PFT:

    LSU defensive tackle Michael Brockers (?/?).

    TCU linebacker Tank Carder (4/?).

    North Carolina defensive end Quinton Coples (?/?).

    Louisiana-Lafayette tight end Ladarius Green (4/?).

    Alabama cornerback Dre Kirkpatrick (?/?).

    *Alabama running back Trent Richardson (4/?).

    Midwestern State guard Amini Silatolu (?/?).

    Virginia Tech running back David Wilson (?/?).

    Illinois safety Tavon Wilson (?/?).

    Someone appears to be missing…


  114. k1ngAdroc Says:

    Bobby’s right

  115. ColoradoBuc Says:

    Htpothetical Question-The Vikings draft Claiborne as he has been linked to them, and the Browns draft Richardson linked to them as well.

    Now what?

  116. tonytwocents Says:


    I see what you did there. You knew a Richardson article would keep the readers busy all night while you take Friday off a little early.

    You’re probably at a bar right now, or heavens forbid, a nudie bar!

    Well, touche…

  117. Sensiblebuc Says:


    1) Draft Kalil and move him to RT until Penn gets too old.

    Or Attempt to trade down. As someone above said, they’ll be looking for and LT now b/c of Peters’ injury.

  118. Sensiblebuc Says:

    *trade down with the Iggles

  119. Hawaiian Buc Says:

    Yeah, I guarantee you Joe is sitting back laughing his arse off at us.

  120. Rrsrq Says:

    If and when Richardson is not available, pick Claiborne, then find next best RB in next round not name Lamichael James, think about, if Blount does get hurt or gets the hook for a fumble are you good with James as your number one back, get Martin, Wilson or Miller, they can carry load better. Pead and James though would be better special teamers

  121. Big Picture Guy Says:

    I think many of you miss the point on some people’s obsession with Trent Richardson. He is a complete back. He is not the same runner Adrain Peterson is, but hes the best looking one since him.

    But what makes him a special fit for the Bucs, is that he instantly upgrades our passing attack as well. I think Blount can do it, but I’d rather bet on Richardson in a 3rd down role to make a play. Blount can fill the ultimate closer role.

    Also anyone who thinks the Bucs can justify using the 36th pick in the draft on LaMichael James is looney. He is a 3rd round pick. Take him if he falls, but otherwise get a LB if one is there.

    Try not to get smoke in your eyes, people.

  122. ClayBURN94 Says:

    All of you guys saying this is a passing league, you’re right, but it’s still football plain and simple and if you can run the ball to keep the opposing offense getting on the field, then they can’t score plain and simple. But that’s IF you can run the ball consistently which is i think the bucs can do with huge o-line and blount/ whoever we draft at RB. But you also have to play great defense WHEN IT COUNTS which is the most important thing in football. What I mean by when it counts is in clutch situations and if you’re in the playoffs. The patriots had the 32nd D and mad the SB but they played REALLY good defense in the playoffs.

  123. BigMacAttack Says:

    I think the Bucs are in a great spot at 5. Somebody will probably want to move up for Tannehill. 1&2 are pretty well decided. That now leaves the Bucs with the 3’rd real pick of what’s left. If someone trade up with Minnesota for the QB, it leaves T-Rich, Claiborne, Blackmon & Kahlil. At this point Cleveland would definitely make their pick at 4. No matter who the pick the Bucs will get a top talent. I think the Vikings will draft Claiborne because of the QB’s they have to face in their division. I think Cleveland wants Tannehill to replace Peewee McCoy. That leaves the Bucs in an awesome position to pick, but if the Rams want Blackmon, which they really need, they could trade with the Bucs and give up their #2 and the Bucs only drop 1 spot in the first round. I believe that Schiano wants Richardson and this would drop him in the Bucs lap and they gain a number 2, maybe even a number 4 with it. I think Cleveland wants too much to trade their pick to the Rams and Dom could swoop in and tell FIsher he’ll trade his pick for much less because the Browns IMO won’t pick Blackmon. So this is all BS and they’re all really good and I don’t care who the Bucs pick or if they trade down. Its all good. Really.

  124. SilenceTheCritics Says:

    Many Bucs fans, turning a blind eye to the gaping holes in the Bucs secondary, that awful track record of first round running backs and the gnawing truth that the Bucs already have a solid running back
    I think your way off base there Joe. I dont think anyone is turning a blind out to the holes in our secondary. But simply drafting a player because we NEED a CB will equate to failure. History of drafting bad RBs in the first round is also something nobody should take into consideration because that will have no bearing on Richardsons career… I think that is a rather silly statement. And yes we have a solid RB in Blount but he has a ton of flaws as well as pluses. Richardson is a better All around back. Nothing wrong with adding another piece, IMO a better piece than Blount. And my question is this… why are you so sure Mo will be a 1 Corner?… I think Richardson behind are muchly improved O-line will have much more Impact than a Rookie Corner on a bad Defense. And how are you so sure Martin will even be there when it comes to our pick in the 2nd round?… thats taking a HUGE gamble. I just dont find your argument for not drafting Richardson sensible

  125. Matthew Says:

    @Sensible Buc I see what you did there and you proved my point for me. Nothing better then when your detractors prove your points for you. If you bothered to not use @Haiwaiin strawman argument about me claiming you don’t need to run the ball (which I never stated or wrote) or read what I posted… I’ll reiterate THE MODERN NFL to be consistently successful you need one of the following 3 THINGS:
    1. An Elite Passing Attack
    2. An Elite Pass Rush
    3. An Elite Pass Coverage

    even better if you can get a combination of the two.

    Running the ball now is merely a way to keep the defense honest, burn clock, pick up short yards & be a change of pace. My original point stands go find me a team that WON THE SUPERBOWL or is a perrenial playoff contender that is led by an ELITE RB/Rushing attack as their best weapon…I’m going to eat since it’s going to be a while for you to find one.

  126. Brandon Says:

    Doug Martin, good player, returns kicks. Productive, measurables, very similar but better than Richardson’s. Martin ran an eletronic timed 4.55 to Richardson’s 4.46-4.58 handtimed, Richardson benched 225 25X, Martin 28X. This guy is not much of a stepdown from Richardson. I’ve been on the Martin bandwagon for a while now.

  127. st augustine Says:

    i heard something interesting today: Bucs get Tannehill (if he’s there) and trade Freeman to the Dolphins for their first rounder this year and premium draft picks next year! If this happens there is a very good chance Trent Richardson is there at #8 and we get him! Tannehill and Richardson to the Bucs! It will completely catch everyone off guard! Like I said, this is what I heard. It’s very realistic and I don’t think fans would be opposed to this. In addition (from a QB standpoint) I heard there is NO drop off from RG3 to Tannehill (only speed – RG3 is faster). I believe Tannehill threw 68 passes today and completed 65 (two of them were dropped). Your thoughts if this comes to fruition?

  128. JSmalls Says:

    Has Doug Martin ever faced a 7 man front outside of the red zone. Will be a different game for him in the NFL.

  129. Cmurda Says:

    No way Freeman is being traded. Dom will live or die with Freeman. That has already been etched in stone.

  130. ClayBURN94 Says:

    @st augistine idk if you are joking or what but I think you just lost all credibility with all JBF posters. Lol and that is something we can all agree on for once(including Thomass and Capt.Tim).

  131. st augustine Says:

    Clayburn and Cmurda, thanks for putting me in check. I have to agree – there’s no way Dom is trading Free. I’ve been listening and reading to too many draft situations these past two weeks that it think it’s getting the best of me…lol. ps, brittany craine is the hottest nfl cheerleader….there, i hope i got my street cred back! =)

  132. Hawaiian Buc Says:


    “Ain’t a whole lot of winning going on with these ELITE Mega Star RBs, but hey let’s ignore all the signs that the league has changed & just draft with outdated thinking! Claiborne/Blackmon or Trade back please Bucs.”


    By you making that statement, you are implying that having a great RB is not important (it’s not even really implied, it’s what you said). I was obviously exaggerating that point, I’m sorry you couldn’t figure that out. The fact that those elite backs are not on great teams doesn’t mean jack in regards to the importance of a running game. On a football team, it takes a whole team to make a good team. A good to great QB is a necessity. That is the REAL factor in team success, over both a RB and a CB. However, for the most part I agree with you on what it takes to be succssful (strong QB and strong pass rush). I consider a strong running game a little more important than a strong pass defense, but that is up for debate (a lot depends on how strong the QB and how strong the pass rush – a strong QB can make up for a weaker running game and a strong pass rush can make up for a weaker pass defense). I’m also not of the belief that winning can be done only one way. Good teams win because they take advantage of their strengths. If a team has an excellent QB, they will pass more. If a team has an excellent RB, they will run more. Etc. etc. I don’t think we have an excellent QB (at least not yet). We have the potential to have an unbelievable running game, which will help Freeman tremendously. I also don’t believe our defense will be anywhere near this bad next year, mainly because of better coaching and (hopefully) less injuries.

  133. Hawaiian Buc Says:

    “Has Doug Martin ever faced a 7 man front outside of the red zone. Will be a different game for him in the NFL.”


    Well, as someone who has seen Martin in person, I am a big believer. He did a really good job against the ferocious University of Hawaii defense! Hawaii’s defense is basically LSU’s, but a little more ferocious..

  134. gotbbucs Says:

    Can someone please tell me what Richardson does so much better than the supposed lesser RB’s in this class besides pass block well on 3rd down, and I’m sure that’s debatable because other backs in this draft can pick up a blitz? I know there are other backs that are faster and I know there are other backs that can break tackles.

    And for those wondering, this will be a man to man coverage defense, so we can leave the draft position of guys like Barber, Donnie Abraham, and Brian Kelly out of the equation. We have exactly one press corner on our roster and he’s not that great and Schiano will probably send him packing as soon as he can.

    This is such an easy decision it isn’t even funny.

  135. Jerry Says:

    Gil Brandt was not a legendary GM. He was a legendary VP Player Personnel of the Cowboys, with Tex Schramm the legendary GM and Tom Landry the legendary coach! I know, picky, picky.

  136. @ghue Says:

    Draft PEAD in rd 2!

  137. Hawaiian Buc Says:


    First of all, according to which time you believe, he was the second fastest RB, although that matters very little to me. Some players run faster than others in pads, and Richardson runs very fast in pads. Watch how he literally blows defenders off the screen (including Claiborne). So you would actually have a very hard time finding another RB that is faster. He averaged 6 yards per carry, on a whopping 283 carries – in the SEC no less! He averaged 6.3 the year before, and 5.2 the year before that. That’s incredible. No one else is even close to that type of production with that type of competition. Every game he breaks off long runs, every game. He is extremely powerful, and ALWAYS falls forward. He does not fumble. He is excellent in short yardage situations. He has the ability to play a slot WR. To be honest, you just have to see him play a few games before you can really appreciate how good he is. He is about as close to Mark Ingram (in running style) as I am (which is not very)

  138. Hawaiian Buc Says:

    And you do notice that even the Richardson detractors can’t argue any point I just made. That’s because it is all 100% true.

  139. Hawaiian Buc Says:

    He’s often compared to Adrian Peterson, which even I have to admit is completely ridiculous. He’s just not the same type of player. To me, he is a carbon copy of Marshall Faulk (whom I saw play in person a couple time in college). Go look up what all the old Rams say about Marshall Faulk and how much he helped them become the greatest show on turf. The decision then becomes a little more difficult.

  140. Hawaiian Buc Says:

    Richardson should sign me as his agent already. I need to stop, but I probably won’t.

  141. bucbelevr Says:

    Interesting, interesting! Did you all see the March 30th available cap space list on PFT they put out today???…2 interesting takeaways. One, Bucs still have 18.3 million available, like 5th most available. Second, and IMO the most important, 3 of the 4 teams that have the least amount available, are the Panthers (623,000 avail), Saints (1.4mill avail), Falcons, (1.8 mill avail).

    SOO, they’re ALL in our division, but we (Bucs) as a team are supposed to compete, in the same division, with that much less talent purchased?!?!? By a $17 million dollar difference?!?! Right Dominik….right?!

  142. nate Says:

    I really hope the browns draft richardson so all this talk about drafting him will be over!

  143. bucbelevr Says:

    No matter what whiny stuff Dom comes up with through local reporters about extensions for longer term contracts coming, draft picks….blah, blah, blah, blah…..ALL THE TEAMS also have to do those same things, and year after year, they all work it out, year after year.

    Dom is a bunch of noise…spend like the good teams, spend like the teams that get into the playoffs year after year.

  144. raphael Says:

    so Lofton signed with the Saints for 7 million per year….Bucs offered 33.0 mill Saints got him for 33.5…..

  145. bucbelevr Says:


    Where did you see the Bucs offer for Lofton?..

  146. raphael Says:

    @bucbelever ….

  147. raphael Says:

    you don’t need facebook account to read the page ^^^^^

  148. thibs5599 Says:

    Doug Martin could be just as good as Trent Richardson in the NFL. We have a great O line to begin with, anybody should be able to run behind it, including a guy we already have on this team, Blount. Dom gets the final call and he loves corners, and this team needs corners more than it needs a RB. Our defense was horrible, and we have upgraded the offense by getting rid of Olson, signing Jackson and Nicks, and getting a new offensive coordinator. Lets upgrade the defense now, Wright is a good start, however he is far from what we need. This offense only needs a third down back and I would be happy with it going into the season. However, this defense needs at least 2 or 3 starters if not more, and we can not wait till the second round of the draft to address that. Honestly, we should not even think about addressing the offense until the third round, CB, LB, RB, unless the Bucs decide to sign Hawthorne within the next few weeks or during the draft if he is still there. Hawthorne would help solve so much if he was on this team, or any other starting caliber linebacker that is.

  149. ClayBURN94 Says:

    Wow wtf Curtis Lofton is obviously a MORON. The Aints are in turmoil right now and Drew Brees is 33 and not getting any younger while Freeman is only 24 and still on the rise. I guess he didn’ think about his future. Glad he didn’t come here showing how dumb he is.


    This debate makes me laugh. This is like listening to a bunch of politicians.

  151. Hawaiian Buc Says:

    Come on everybody, 49 more comments to go to hit 200!!! Claiborne sucks, discuss.

  152. Pete Dutcher Says:

    Mark Dominick is doing it right.

    The Saints are in cap hell…did they Brees yet? Last I heard he was holding out. How will they pay him with only under 2 mil to spend, or even pay the tag? To top it off, now they can’t even get replacements for the coming suspensions.

    The Panthers are nowhere close to a playoff team..and won’t be for at least 2 years. The Falcons are a contender.

    But the thing I really want to address is your impatience. THE OFF SEAN ISN’T EVEN TO THE HALFWAY POINT YET.

    Yes…there is a second free agency period. After the draft. Which is where the Bucs traditionally get their guys.

    The Bucs have 6 picks this year…you want them to fill all the spots before the draft? OR you want them to miss out on very good players that become available after the draft?

    I know…since only our first pick matters, lets sign to all the other positions except those we’re planning to fill in the draft…that way teams can steal picks from us throughout the rest of the draft.

    I’m sorry, man…but you just are not thinking this through.

  153. gotbbucs Says:

    I will say this, I will not be jumping off any bridges if Richardson is the pick, I guess I would if Dominik pulled some jackass move like trading up with the Vikings to get him, but beyond that I do understand that Richardson is a very good player and would undoubtedly help the offense. I don’t think we need him to have a good offense, but I understand that he would help. I still do not think it is a wise move to draft a RB high bcause I don’t believe that an elite bell cow RB is neccessary to win these days. I used to think that, but not anymore.

    IF they pick Richardson, a monsterous IF in my opinion, they better damn well find the right players to turn this defense around or we’re going to find out just how good Richardson is at pass blocking because of the lopsided score.

    I still don’t believe Dominik is foolish enough to make the Richardson pick. There is so much smoke out there right now it almost seems like it’s being leaked on purpose. When has Dominik ever tipped his hand on what players he’s interested in in the draft, but now all of the sudden every beat writer in Tampa knows how much they love Trent Richardson? I’m just not buying it.

  154. Cmurda Says:

    You can forget us drafting anybody but MO if he is on the board. Dom knows CLE is the X Factor. Minn is taking Kalil. CLE is the only team that could ruin our party. It makes perfect sense to hype T Rich up so the Browns get him and then there is Blackmon. He’s the guy I think they will draft. Joe is right. MO is the biggest no-brainer I have ever seen if we have the chance to get MO.

  155. JT Says:

    TR is not AP… TR can block

  156. Nate Says:

    TRADE down is our best best imo! Maybe for the bengals 2 first round picks.. we need major linebacker help! If we could get kuechly and zach brown would be nice.. then how about alfonzo denard in the 2nd round? we got two starting linebackers and a new DB.. then our team doesnt have many holes!

  157. tonytwocents Says:

    What, all you guys run out of ammunition?

    Let me help. Morris Claiborne eats Blackmon for dinner, and defecates Trent Richardson in the morning. Richardson is a two flusher because of his larger than average hype.


    Claiborne or Trade – Dom Knows It, Schiano Knows It, The G-Men Back It.

  158. tonytwocents Says:

    Look I’ve watched a handful of highlights of Rich, not to mention the games I’ve seen on TV. Trent is an outstanding back, but an unnecessary pick-up.

    Like I said before, Blount is raw talent. He’s done so much in 2 years, WITHOUT A FULL OFFSEASON. Imagine what he’ll be like after some real coaching. Dude will come out in BEAST MODE!

    For you guys talking about his 9 fumbles his first two years………ALSTOTT HAD 9 FUMBLES HIS FIRST TWO YEARS. He got better as the years went on, AND SO WILL BLOUNT.

    I stand by this, BLOUNT IS THE REINCARNATION OF ALSTOTT. All we need is a shifty pinball like Dunn (who was a hell of a pass blocker). And we can easily find this in the later rounds or 3nd tier FA.

    Claiborne or Trade – Dom Knows It, Schiano Knows It, The G-Men Back It.

  159. tonytwocents Says:

    *2nd tier FA.

  160. tonytwocents Says:

    And for the record I spent 5 years growing up in Alabama. They were the first football team I ever rooted for and I still root for the Tide to this day (over the Gators, Noles – maybe not USF but they never play each other).

    But again,

    Claiborne or Trade – Dom Knows It, Schiano Knows It, The G-Men Back It.

  161. ClayBURN94 Says:

    @Nate that does not actually sound to bad but the bungles probably wont do it.

  162. Pete Dutcher Says:

    Spammed again…no html. I swear this website wages a personal war on me.

  163. rdbucfan Says:


    ” I still do not think it is a wise move to draft a RB high bcause I don’t believe that an elite bell cow RB is neccessary to win these days. I used to think that, but not anymore.”

    It doesn’t matter what you think, the Head Coach Greg Schiano thinks having a bell cow is important. We are going to be a run 1st team.

    “When has Dominik ever tipped his hand on what players he’s interested in in the draft”

    I haven’t heard Dominik state that he’s interested in TR. I do know that TR is scheduled to visit OBP according to PFT. I do know that Clayborn visited OBP last year prior to the draft. I don’t see Morris Claiborne with a scheduled visit to OBP this year.

  164. Pete Dutcher Says:

    Tony, I typed a good agreement with you…but the site apparently didn’t like it.

  165. JSmalls Says:

    Has Doug Martin ever lined up behind a 2 TE set? Does he even know what a strong side backer is seeing that in his highlight reel he’s running at nickel and dime.

    To act like Claiborn will make a bigger impact than Richardson is irresponsible. How is Claiborn going to help the rush defense?

  166. Pete Dutcher Says:

    We will not be a run first team. If you think that you better prepare yourself for disappointment. The Bucs went out of their way to improve THE PASSING GAME and have done nothing to improve the running game.

    The Bucs running game will be used mainly to open up the passing game or to run out the clock. Yes, we will run the ball more than before…but thats not hard to do. Olson hated running the ball.

    The run the ball hype is an attempt at distraction…nothing more.

    There’s an old saying…NEVER believe anything a team says before the draft.

  167. tonytwocents Says:

    Pete Dutcher says:

    “Tony, I typed a good agreement with you…but the site apparently didn’t like it.”

    Don’t worry about it Pete. I got into an argument with this site and called it’s mother a virus infected porn site……It didn’t take too kindly to that.

  168. SensibleBuc Says:

    @ Pete

    “We will run the football and we’re going to be physical. Then we’re going to throw the ball up over the top.”

    “When you can run the football when you want to, if gives you choices to throw the football.”

    Schiano has gone out of the way to mention the same philosophy over and over and over.

    Plus, look at his stats at Rutgers. He had almost a 2:1 run/pass ratio during his best years:

  169. SensibleBuc Says:

    @ Pete

    “We will run the football and we’re going to be physical. Then we’re going to throw the ball up over the top.”

    “When you can run the football when you want to, if gives you choices to throw the football.”

    Schiano has gone out of the way to mention the same philosophy over and over and over.

    Plus, look at his stats at Rutgers. He had almost a 2:1 run/pass ratio during his best years.

  170. tonytwocents Says:


    How effective will Richy be on the sidelines, while our defense can’t even get off the field because of our poor DB coverage (biggest weakness of team) & Front Seven collapse (second biggest weakness – mostly w/LBs).

    If we go with Richy, our defense will cause us to play catchup from behind like we have over and over in the past.

    That will result in the abandonment of Richy Rich and the RB game. So what’s the point?

  171. tonytwocents Says:


    He may have had a 2/1 run/pass ratio during those years, but he had some snot nose kid throwing the ball, not Josh Freeman and Vincent Jackson and Mike Williams and Kellen Winslow.

  172. Bobby Says:

    @Pete….I believe we WILL be a run first team. If we can establish that we can run the ball at will then we will also be able to pass the ball at will. When you can keep the LB’s up to protect the run then the middle opens up and with the receiving corp we have the play action will be a beautiful thing but we HAVE to establish the running game before it all works.

    Now, that seems to support the argument for getting Trent Richardson but I don’t think we need Trent Richardson to make it work. If we didn’t have Blount I would be totally on the Trent Richardson bandwagon but what we need is a compliment to Blount…not a replacement. I believe Doug Martin would be the perfect compliment back. Good speed, strong, good blocking back, can catch the ball, and runs very hard. We have a very good O-line now and the combination of Blount and Martin would be outstanding and that would allow us to fortify the secondary with a guy like Claiborne who will probably be a shut down corner.

    For those who question the value of a CB over a RB just look at all the mock drafts and tell me how many DB’s you see on the board as opposed to RB’s in the first round. Richardson will be the only RB to go in the first round and there is a reason for that. Defense usually wins super bowls. Sure, you need to score points but when we beat the Saints last year it wasn’t the offense that did it. We held them to 20 points and that is what won the game for us.

  173. SensibleBuc Says:

    @ tonytwocents

    Even when Ray Rice was gone and all he had was Kenny Britt in 09 Schiano STILL had more than a 2:1 run/pass ratio.

    Is that philosophy subject to change? Sure. The goal ultimately is to be more balanced like the Saints we’re not the Saints. We’re going to establish the run until Free proves he can carry the offense.

    Last year Free was fat, didn’t run, had terrible mechanics, and was terrible going through his progressions. He’s going to have to improve immensely for us to NOT be a run first team.

  174. JSmalls Says:


    It works both ways, if our offense can control the clock it protects the defense. Also, how can you correctly evaluate a pass defense when the defense never sees 3rd and long and rarely sees 3rd downs at all. We gave up big pass plays because teams were averaging 5 yards a carry, not the other way around.

  175. Fatmosh Says:

    This is some good stuff. One thing I think we can all agree on is that we’re lucky we’re in the Top 5 and will be able to grab one of the elite prospects, unlike the folks in picks 7-10.

  176. Paul Says:

    I love PFF and their stats. They just put out Pass Blocking Efficiency: Running Backs.

    Blount only allowed 2 pressures on 58 pass block snaps. 97% efficiency good for #10 in the league.