The Bucs Are Not Super Bowl Contenders

February 16th, 2011

A Bucs fan who recently may have celebrated something too much or was sampling some black market product got former Bucs great Warren Sapp’s attention.

In a recent chat on, said fan told Sapp that the Bucs would hoist the Vince Lombardi Trophy next winter in victory.

Sapp, ever the proud Bucs supporter, couldn’t even swallow this.

Hovsep Trdatyan, Los Angeles
Hey, Warren I’m probably the biggest tampa fan out there, I just loved watching you play. I think we have a shot at the super bowl next year with this young talent. What you thing about the new age bucs!?

Warren Sapp, NFL Network
Good luck Hovsep. It’s a process. They haven’t even made the playoffs yet. It’s a long process. You don’t just show up and win Super Bowls. There’s a lot of young talent, but it’s just that: Young talent. When the defense is ready to go out and shut down Aaron Rodgers, that’s when they’ll be ready to win a championship.

That’s pretty much the refrain heard by many last year that sent Bucs fans into such a tizzy they threw empty beer glasses at their bartenders: The Bucs couldn’t beat a team with a winning record.

Of course the Bucs finally did beat a team with a winning record and that was the defending Super Bowl champs.

Sapp is absolutely correct: The Bucs are getting there but it is a process. Baby steps.

104 Responses to “The Bucs Are Not Super Bowl Contenders”

  1. gitarlvr Says:

    Yeah its a process. But didn’t they shut down Aaron Rodgers in 2009? Didn’t the Bucs have the same 10-6 record as Aaron Rodgers and the Packers this year? Maybe the process is farther along than some think. Or maybe the Bucs will go 2-14 next year. Thomas and Eric can only hope.

  2. Capt.Tim Says:

    Absolutely right. Becoming a contender is a step to becoming a champion

  3. eric Says:

    True but year three should produce a Division Championship.

    Nuttin to those…………..

  4. admin Says:

    Joe here,

    Joe’s not lowering expectations, just pointing out the obvious. Anything but the playoffs next year is a lateral step at best, or a step back. That’s what happens when you go 10-6, and that’s a good thing.

  5. oar Says:

    Sure we had the same record, but not sure we would have made it past the Eagles or the Falcons or the Bears. Look, I’m not hating, just siding with a great DT, that played on a great defense and has won it!
    BTW not sure if we “shut down” Rodgers? Considering, he threw for 2 tds and rushed for another one last year. We did have a blocked punt return, an int return, and three Freeman td passes, though!

  6. Dave Says:

    I absolutely agree. THey MUST address the defensive needs: DE & LB. When they do that and they can stop the run and attack a QB, then they can win a SB.

    However, add two players:
    a playmaking LB and a DE who can get after the QB…. and it is possible to do it next year. I doubt it, but, get those two players in the mix and start gelling at the right time…. you never know.

  7. gitarlvr Says:

    Eric always harping on Gruden’s one and done division championships and the fact that Raheem didn’t win one already by his second year. Guess what Eric? If the falcons and saints have down years like they did when Gruden won those division titles then its pretty much a given that the Bucs will be division champions. Its too bad those teams are much better(and will be for a while) than they were the years Chucky won his division championships.

    Whats your response to this Eric- Mr. Factual?

    FACT- The last time Gruden won a division championship(2007) it was with a 9-7 record(one game LESS than the Bucs won this year).

    FACT- That same year the whole rest of the NFC south finished with losing records.

    FACT- This years team would have been division champions too if they had played in the sorry ass 2007 NFC South.

    Carolina- 7-9
    New Orleans- 7-9
    Atlanta- 4-12

    FACT- The Bucs were promptly destroyed by the Giants in the first round in the most embarrasing lopsided playoff loss the Bucs have ever suffered.

    Yeah if thats the kind of step your lil chuckster took towards being a champion, I hope this regime manages to skip that step.

    Oh and in 2005 when they won the division with an 11-5 record- clearly they were not even the best team in the division that year as they were bounced by the wildcard Redskins in round 1 and the Panthers went on to win two playoff games and advance to the NFC championship.

    Im sure their are some division championships less worth bragging about than those two…but not many. Hell even the 7-9 Seahawks won in the first round this year.

    Couple those unimpressive division championships with all the supremely ugly seasons in between and you have one impressive season from Chucky- 2002. Nothing but a downward spiral after that. And with Gruden’s inability to draft the spiral had no end in sight. But you and Tommy Boy are so right. Us sheeple are so blind not to see how much better it was under Gruden. I guess the future was so bright it completely blinded us….

  8. JoEiBaR Says:

    I think Sapp is right, we have great young talent, but we couldn’t defeat a winning record team. Next year we can achive the playoffs, but beyond that, I do not know. I’m still hopeful to getting the SB, but still, we got a long way to go.

  9. bucfanjeff Says:

    Superbowl? Possible, not probable…but it is possible.
    We did beat Aaron Rodgers last season with a young team that was basically an experienced college team. If our offense is the same and we improve our defense by 20% (read: pass rush), there is no reason other teams will be saying the same thing about our Bucs as being said about our Bolts.

  10. gitarlvr Says:

    They beat Aaron Rodgers in 2009- when they were a far worse team than last year. My point being that, when the parity in the NFL is such, that a 10-6 wildcard team that lost the previous year to a 3-13 mess can win the Super Bowl- well then the Bucs are about as far off from being Super Bowl contenders as just about anyone else. Remember folks- we are talking about a league where a losing team can advance to the second round of the playoffs.

  11. oar Says:

    Come on man!
    “FACT- The Bucs were promptly destroyed by the Giants in the first round in the most embarrasing lopsided playoff loss the Bucs have ever suffered.”
    WRONG!!! Did you even watch the Bucs before 2002?
    I’m sorry but 2007 24-14 lost is not the worse or most embarrassing! 2000 playoff lost 21-3, 2001 playoff lost 31-9! Those are the worse most embarrasing lopsided playoff losses for the Bucs!
    Glad to see/read, you were quite the fan when Gruden was here?!

  12. gitarlvr Says:

    This is now 2 years in the last decade that WILDCARD teams have won the Super Bowl. Clearly being a division winner the year before is not a prerequisite for winning the Super Bowl the year after. You don’t even have to win your division in the year you win the Super Bowl!!! THATS A FACT!!!

  13. oar Says:

    No sh*t! But, that still doesn’t make up for your WRONG playoff loss statement! Again, I ask did you even watch the Bucs before 2002? Cause, I think you’re hate has blinded “your most embarassing playoff loss” vision!

  14. Guest#27 Says:

    Unlock me Joe.

    This is BS.

    If I said what Sapp said, you would ban me.

    Sapp is 100% right.

  15. gitarlvr Says:

    Sorry but the Giants loss was the most embarrassing. I remember those two losse under Dungy and neither were as embarrassing as the Giants loss. The Bucs came out strong in the first quarter of that Giants game and then proceeded to spend the next three quarters getting dismantled and abused as badly as I have ever seen a team get abused in the playoffs. The Giants could have scored a hell of a lot more points if they had wanted to run the score up.

  16. Guest#27 Says:

    Guess you un-banned me.

  17. gitarlvr Says:

    You take away the first quarter of that 2007 loss and the next three quarters were far more painful to watch than any other playoff loss of the Bucs I have witnessed.

  18. oar Says:

    Wow! You really think 21-3 and 31-9 are not worse than 24-14??? You must be a riot to watch football games with, cause that’s HILARIOUS! Again, I think its the hate!

  19. oar Says:

    “playoff loss of the Bucs I have witnessed.” Bingo! Ah now that makes sense!

  20. HIRE GREG OLSON! Says:

    gitarlvr is the same guy who said that Benn running a 4.46 40 yd dash at the combine is so much slower than Benn running 4.38 at his pro day.

    He should pick up one of those patches of the Trop’s old playing surface and introduce himself to a sports field…

  21. eric Says:


    The Saint and Falcons are much better?

    Brees was there before, and the Falcons had Michael Vick, and the Panthers were very good. (played in a Super Bowl during that time I think).

    But you will notice I didn’t say a word about Chucky, just stated that the Bucs ought to win the division this season.

    Isn’t that what is expected of lasting contenders?

  22. gitarlvr Says:

    Oar the final score doesn’t tell the whole story of the game. The Giants declined to run up the score and the Bucs scored a meaningless garbage time TD when the Giants were already busy pouring the Gatorade on the coach. I’ve never been so embarassed to be a Bucs fan as I was watching the Giants make the Bucs look like a pee-wee team. Ive seen every single televised Bucs game since I moved to the area in 93.

  23. gitarlvr Says:

    Eric- They won the division 9-7. A division where the other teams were all losing teams. Then got annihilated in round 1. Like I said I’m sure there have been less impressive division championships in NFL history but none immediately spring to mind. Even the 7-9 Seahawks were more impressive this year.

  24. gitarlvr Says:

    And yes the Saints and Falcons were 13-3\ 11-5(and defending SB champs). There is no question the NFC South was tougher this year than it ever was under Gruden.

  25. nick Says:

    No one thought the Bucs would win 3 games last year much less 10. For me it carries over to the next year. They surpassed my expectations last year so if they don’t meet expectations this year (getting 2nd place in the division) its all good. I don’t expect them to go backwards to 6-7 wins either. Its football people. Who makes up these expectations anyways? How could you expect division championships and super bowls for such a young team? Give these guys 4 or 5 years together, then I will expect big things.

  26. eric Says:


    The reason the other teams had losing records is because the bucs beat them twice, as opposed to this year the bucs lost twice to the Division winners. Had they not they woulda coulda shoulda won the Division.

    When is Rah going to win his unimpressive Division Title?

    Wonder if you will view it that way if he does? Your doing backflips over no playoffs, much less a first round exit after a Division Title.

    Why do you leave out the 11-5 2005 Division Title and the 2002 12-4 Division Title? Or were those gifts in a weak Division too?

  27. gitarlvr Says:

    Eric- I didn’t leave those years out. You didn’t read the whole post. There was of course the Super Bowl which I give Gruden credit for. Then in 2005 they may have won the division but then lost in the first round while the Panthers won two playoff games and advanced to the NFC championship. My point is that I believe your fixated on Gruden winning those divisions as a sign of success. I might agree with you if the 2005 or 2007 teams actually did something once they got in the playoffs besides lose ugly in the first round.

  28. gitarlvr Says:

    And no I won’t be impressed if Rah wins a division title just to be trounced in round 1. Not after this season. Missing the playoffs or getting slaughtered in round 1 wont be impressive after a 10-6 season. But going 10-6 after 3-13 is impressive. It should be at least to anyone with any reasonable expectations. No one is arguing with you that it should be playoffs or bust next year. Its your refusal to give Raheem or the Bucs any credit for a 7 game turnaround this year that pisses people off.

  29. Dave Says:


    Why are you hanging your hat on division titles?

    Who cares? The Colts have a ton of them – 1 SB.
    The last few years the Pats have a bunch too… so what?

    Gruden won the SB, I give him credit for that.

    As far as Raheem, why do you always ignore the fact that he was given a college team and told to build it?
    What he has done in 2 years is fantastic. If he keeps it going and they have a couple more good drafts, we are talking about a team that will be playoff and SB contenders for a decade.

    Gruden could never do that. He lost the team after the SB and tried to fill holes with aging old vets. It kept them floating along as a .500 team.
    It was partly due to money, but mostly due to his ego. That is what he liked. He did not have the patience or know how to coach the young players.

    Add to that the fact that he was horrible when having input on the draft, it was inevitable that the team was going to the bottom of the pile.

    Again, granted much of it was due to lack of cash flow, but I give the Glazers some credit. They saw this and decided to end the slow decline, clean house and build a core through the draft with young coaches who will stick around for a long time. it is called stability and it is the single most over looked and improtant piece of football management.

    This team is on the way to becoming winners of the division multiple times, consistently being in the playoffs, and being SB contenders for years….

    but is it seems all you care about is watching Raheem fail so you can scream “told you so” as you sit next to your Gruden poster in the basement…. pretty pathetic and not exactly what I would call a fan of a team.

    Being critical is one thing, but it is obvious to most of us that you and a couple others just want them to fail to be proven right or because of racial issues witgh Freeman and Raheem… whatever. Either way it is pathetic.

  30. oar Says:

    Do know what the difference between winners and losers is? The SCORE.
    That Giants game we had more first downs and almost the same net yards as Giants. So throughout the game we were playing, just ot scoring. SDon’t forget Garcia had 2 ints that game. That there makes a huge difference in the outcome!
    Those playoff games were good to you, because why, in 2000 we scored a field goal in the 1s qrtr, had half the first downs and 100 less net yards than the Eagles, and in 2001 we kicked 3 FGs in the 1st half, and again had 100 less net yards than the Eagles? Wow, I guess I’m glad the Eagles didn’t run up the score! Give me a break! Those were THE worse, period!

  31. gitarlvr Says:

    Bravo Dave- Thats all of it in a nutshell. Its too bad Eric and Thomas cant get over themselves or move on to some website where their opinions are appreciated. But they can’t and so we will just have this same argument over and over ad nauseum. At least until Raheem wins a Super Bowl. But somehow, even then, I think the haters will find a reason to hate. Probably for the exact reason you listed.

  32. eric Says:


    Your use of the race card is what is pathetic.

    But when the multiple division titles start I will be highly impressed.

    Even though they mean nothing in your book.

  33. eric Says:

    By the way what is that big trophy in the picture? And how many others have the bucs won in 35 years?

  34. gitarlvr Says:

    Dave’s use of the race card is entirely appropriate. Mister “sandcamels”.

  35. nick Says:

    Eric, it took the Bucs 35 years and you want Rah to win one next year with a bunch of rooks

  36. eric Says:

    Nope Mr. Nick, just think the standard should be playoffs, and/or division title.

    Thats what the previous three head coaches have been held to……….and is pretty standard.

    Not sure why that triggers such hostility.

  37. Hawaiian Buc Says:

    As soon as I read the title of this article, I knew who would be posting! As much as it pains me to say this, I think Sapp is probably right. I’m a big believer that you have to lose in the playoffs once or twice in order to win the trophy. Now of course that is not always the case, but for the most part it is true. Playoff football is just different from regular season football. Teams with no playoff experience usually have to learn that the hard way. Next year our main focus should be to get in the playoffs, I don’t care whether we win the division or not, just get in. Once you are in, anything can happen. I just think we are still a little too young and raw to hold up the trophy next year. If I’m wrong, I’ll gladly eat crow!

    Eric and gitarlvr are arguing about something you are both right about. It is great to win a division title because it means you are automatically in the playoffs with a home game. That is always good. However, aside from the 2002 SB team, those were not great Buc teams that won the division. They definitely took advantage of a weak division. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that, because that’s just like saying we took advantage of a weak schedule this year. You can only play the teams they schedule for you. But I’m sure even Eric would admit those were not great teams, and they had very little shot at winning the SB.

    Eric doesn’t seem to understand that the team is being built in a different way now from when Gruden was here. Therefore, expectations are different, as is the timetable for success. That is reality, like it or not. Should we make the playoffs next year? Absolutely. If we don’t, should we fire Raheem? Absolutely not. We are not even close to reaching our peak, probably 3-4 years away in fact. Damn near half our starters were rookies last year. whereas most teams don’t start more than one or two rookies. It’s truly amazing what we did last year, and we just need to keep building on it.

  38. eric Says:

    The expectations and standards are certainly different, I will give you that Mr. Hawaiian Buc.

    Actually, that is my point also.

  39. Hawaiian Buc Says:


    In that way, I think the standards and expectations are more comparable to Tony Dungy versus Jon Gruden. Gruden inherited a veteran team expected to win NOW, whereas Dungy had a younger team expected to win in the future. The biggest expectation Morris has it for the team to continue to improve. That hopefully means a trip to the playoffs, but not necessarily. However, there does come a point where playoffs to become mandatory, we are just not there yet.

  40. HIRE GREG OLSON! Says:

    eric Says:
    February 16th, 2011 at 5:49 pm

    Nope Mr. Nick, just think the standard should be playoffs, and/or division title.

    Thats what the previous three head coaches have been held to……….and is pretty standard.

    Not sure why that triggers such hostility.


    But you were ready to get rid of Rah after 09. You’re trying to say that Dungy and Gruden only had 1 year to win the division? I realize Gruden did win a Super Bowl, but no way would they have gotten rid of him after the huge investment of draft picks and money that were used to get him, had he failed to do so after a single year.

    Not to mention the team that Gruden was handed, was much different than the one that Rah was handed…

  41. Guest#27 Says:

    “Should we make the playoffs next year? Absolutely. If we don’t, should we fire Raheem? Absolutely not. ”

    How many years does Raheem get to not make the playoffs?

  42. Hawaiian Buc Says:

    “How many years does Raheem get to not make the playoffs?”


    By asking that question, it would seem you want Raheem to be gone. But I’m sure nobody would actually want another man to be fired from his job, right? More so than years, I think it is more so a matter of improvement vs. lack of improvement, as well as the hold he has on the locker room. If players are starting to tune him out, then that is a bad sign. If the team regresses for 2 consecutive years, then that is also a bad sign. I really don’t see why you would even worry about that yet. I know you don’t like him, but the fact of the matter is he did a great job last year. He deserves the opportunity to take this team to the next level. 9 times out of 10, it is pretty obvious when it’s time for a coach to go, and we aren’t even on the doorstep with Raheem (not to rub it in, but HA HA!!!).

  43. Thomas 2.2 Says:

    Um, who is this hater who says that they are just young talent and havent won anything yet?

    This guy must know nothing about football. Thanks joe for not ignoring this and showing the girls that the real position is : they have acquired some young talent but it hasnt produced ANything yet. Nobody knows if it will, even buc greatz. Lol. This made my day.

  44. Hawaiian Buc Says:

    “This guy must know nothing about football. Thanks joe for not ignoring this and showing the girls that the real position is : they have acquired some young talent but it hasnt produced ANything yet. Nobody knows if it will, even buc greatz. Lol. This made my day.”


    It would make my day if you met Warren Sapp in a dark alley and you told him how much you hate Raheem. You could tell him how you cheer against the Bucs every week, especially Gerald McCoy. Then you could tell him how you call everyone who loves this team “sheep”. Whatever Sapp did to you after that would make my day.

  45. eric Says:

    Very true Thomas,

    Who knew Sapp was such a hater?

    How dare anyone mention that they have to produce in the NFl and do things like actually participate and win in the postseason? (as was demanded by the same group from Dungy and Gru)

    Heck the average NFL career is 3.5 years, but Rah is on a six year plan!

  46. gotbbucs Says:

    except for the fact thomas that sapp can see that this team will be good and all you can do is tear them down at every turn. im sure warren sapp would be outraged with the garbage that you post here so dont try and lump you and him together.

  47. MOBucs Says:

    You are on a roll my Hawaiian Buc brother!

  48. Hawaiian Buc Says:

    Thomas and Eric,

    Stop it right there. That’s not what you two say, and you know it! You constantly make excuses for our 10-6 season and say how crappy we are going to be next year. You hate our coach, and root against our success. You never said that it is a process, so stop giving yourself credit where it doesn’t belong. Sapp has been on record loving what the Bucs are doing. So are you now saying you agree with Sapp? You can’t have it both ways, except, uh, never mind.

  49. Mr. Lucky Says:

    What I find interesting in this post is how Joe(2)? agrees with Sapp (whom I agree with as well) while 1 month ago Joe(1)? was writing that the Bucs were/are on the cusp of a SuperBowl!

    Everyone wants to believe that their team will go to the SuperBowl every year – the sad reality is this; only 2 of 32 teams make it. Most years its 2 of the 4 best teams in the NFL that make it – this year it was probably the top two teams;

    Unfortunately the Bucs aren’t in that top 4 elite status —- yet.

  50. m.wesley Says:

    I said it once and ill say it again you want to compare gruden to somone try mike tomlin both were handed the keys to a very good team in their prime,the diffrence is tomlin went to two superbowls gruden pissed the team away.never had consecutive winning seasons,never had succes when he put his team on the field,if he had we would not be having this conversation.better yet if gruden would have left the same team to rah that dungy left him, young primed to win and rah wins one title not another playoff game in six years would you support him?

  51. m.wesley Says:

    Hello, Thomas, Eric?

  52. Capt.Tim Says:

    Dave’s post was spot on. Sadly, even including the race card on some posters.
    The Bucs have the most talented young QB in Football. They will be in the playoff hunt, as they were untilbthe last seconds of this year. Barring injuries to Josh, I think we probably get in. That’s the next developmental step. You crawl, you stand, you walk, you run. We’re standing, and starting to move . We will. That’s all Warren was saying. Nothing hateful or bad. We learned how to win this year. Now we have to learn how to win in the playoffs. Freeman will. There is no doubt in the minds of football people. None. He’s 23. If it takes him 3 years to get the first ring, he still has time to win 8-10 more!
    Eric- the only talented Buc team Lil chucky took to the Playoffs was the one he was given in 2002. Every team he took after that had less and less talent. And no chance of winning. Because he can’t coach young players, and he cant draft.and he can’t talk or relate to his veterans.THANK GOD FOR RAHEEM MORRIS!!-

  53. gitarlvr Says:

    I feel you on giving up on your post at the end Hawaiian. Its a few brick walls we are arguing with on here every day.

    At the end of the day Jon Gruden= coach who can’t draft and can’t relate to players, who’s offensive scheme was the next big thing…about a decade ago.

    Hopefully some NFL team is stupid enough to offer Gruden a HC job next year so that Eric and Thomas can leave and go root for that team since they seem to be more Jon Gruden fans than Bucs fans.

  54. thomas 2.2 Says:

    let me start by correcting m.wesley’s errors. Jon Gruden’s last 4 years here:
    2005 -11-5 (division champs);
    2006 – 4-12 (both Simms and Griese got hurt and rookie Gradkowski started most games)
    2007 – 9-7 (division champs)
    2008 – 9-7.

    last two years here were consecutive winning seasons.

    Also, must you idiots have forgotten who the bucs defeated to win their super bowl. Who? The team John Gruden built and coached for 3 or 4 years never having a losing season and just a bad call away (tuck rule) from another super bowl berth. Not only has Gruden led one super bowl team, he led two. Rah hasnt done anything but be the coach when Freeman was drafted and go 13-19, miss the playoffs twice and never finish higher than third in the division.

    Hawaiian: eric and i have had many positive things to say about the team. i defend ruud and joseph and faine constantly, i advocate for talib and barber and grimm, compliment the talent of williams and blount – eric like williams and benn etc. I just do not approve of rah and think that GMC was terrible last year – that is it. That does not make you hater – that means you have an opinion.


  55. Bucbeliever Says:

    HawiianBuc-I usually agree w/ you and still do in this subject as far as losing in the playoffs to win the big one. But for some reason I feel like this team is different. It’s still a bunch of young guys who don’t know what they’re “supposed” to accomplish. I feel as if Freeman will rally the troops and keep them focused the same way he will this (extended?) offseason. This is a unique group…

    GO BUCS!

  56. m.wesley Says:

    like i said never had two winning season according to you no playoffs no winning season ,what about the expectations of the team of great players,your not dan sileo crying about gruden took two teams to the superbowl ,he took one team the bucs if he grts credit for the raiders how can you not give dungy credit for the bucs? how about answering why Tomlin got back to the superbowl and gruden couldnt with a team full of pro bowlers!Face it Rah is the thing of the future,thats why Gruden couldnt get a job offer from noone but colleges and Dungys still turning down jobs .the day of the good ole boys coaching is over,teams wont motivaters and teachers not doll baby lookalikes,they want young guys that motavate like tomlin ,Morris,CARROL,HARBOUGH,THAT THE PLAYERS LOVE!!!!!!!!!!!!YOUR BOY IS OUTDATED JUST LIKE YOUR WAY OF THINKING

  57. eric Says:

    When Tomlin took over the Steelers they did not have to give up two number one and two number two draft choices.

    He also had a young Qb and a team that had already won a Super Bowl.

    Situations are not comparable to Gruden taking over the Bucs. The bucs sacrificed the future to win a title then, and he delivered.

    The bottom line is Gruden and Dungy were basically fired for the same reason – not getting deep in the playoffs.

    One thing to be a young and “up and coming” team, another to actually accomplish greatness.

    Getting close won’t cut it anymore.

    Thats really what is iritating the sheep, they hate Rah being held to any standard at all.

  58. m.wesley Says:

    the standard he is held to is to improve the garbage gruden left which he has done,going deep in the playoffs was not it try to win a playoff game in 6 years so you are telling me that the reason he could not win was draft picks what did he do with them when he had them,look here,Gruden won a superbowl and we paid dearly for it through his years of punishing dunb moves getting rid of lynch ,sapp .And you idiots try to say rah got rid of the team when brooks was clearly done lynch and sapp played at a high level after he cut them,and he replaced then with worst players,and wat really eats me is that you and thomas seem to be very smart guys but Iknow it is hard to constantly find reasons to hate Morris.Its getting sad

  59. m.wesley Says:

    you want to compare Morris to gruden but not to Gruden to tomlin ,damn is it just me or what. Morris inherited a worse team than Dungy.

  60. Mr. Lucky Says:

    You can’t compare Gruden to Morris for one simple reason: Philosophy

    Gruden wanted and used veterans
    Morris wants and uses rookies

  61. eric Says:

    Gruden was expected to win the Super Bowl first year, and no one here would have accepted anything less.

    Then, with no first or second round choices for two years and entering salary cap hell, rebuild the team and win ANOTHER Super Bowl(not just Division Titles). (all while the Glazer boys had aligator arms with the salaries)

    All without trying to defend the title in 03, which none of you would have tolerated.

    On the other hand, you can’t even bring yourself to demand Rah make the playoffs in his third full season.

    Chucky would have had to win TWO Super Bowls to satisfy you ingrates, and Rah is permitted to miss the playoffs entirely three years in a row.

    Pathetic double standard.

  62. BigMacAttack Says:

    I think Sapp is playing it safe, and Sapp pretty much picked against the Bucs in 90% of the games this season on Inside the NFL. So how’s that working out for ya bro? I think it is just way to soon to call it. You can say any team won’t make it to the Superbowl and have about a 90% to 95% chance of being correct. Sure there are favorites and there are teams that aren’t anywhere close. The Bucs are definitely closer than about 20 other teams. I want to see what happens in the draft as well as free agency, and then it will be much easier to make a more informed guess. But to say the Bucs have no chance of going to the Super Bowl is not much more than talking out your @$$, and as much as I like Sapp he is an all-pro at talking out of his @$$. Throw in the uncertainty with the SeeBeeA and any team could get thrown for a loop. Right now players are getting busted left and right. What happens when they are no longer employed or regulated? Busted, Disgusted, & Can’t Be Trusted.

  63. Hawaiian Buc Says:


    You are so full of sh!t. Are you honestly saying that the only things you don’t approve of are Raheem and McCoy? What about when you just said this “My list would start and end with Josh Freeman (maybe a little Greg Olsen, Ronde, DJ, Blount, M Will, Cody Grimm”? That’s funny, I don’t see Ruud, Joseph, Faine, or Talib. Funny how now your story changes, but I would expect nothing less to the fool that had the one and only JBF article dedicated to his stupidity. Think about it for a second, you are so stupid that the creator of this website, who obviously wants all of us to be here, wrote an entire article about you because your posts are so stupid!!! And now you try to claim that you have been right all the time? As Ochocinco would say, Child Please!

    As for agreeing with Sapp, maybe you didn’t understand the first time (surprise surprise), you are only agreeing with him if you think we will eventually be great. You say there is no telling they will be great, but why do you say they won’t? You say they won’t, because you hope they won’t. You predicted losses every week last year, and you were wrong most of the time. Then like a little school girl, you either made excuse or disappeared. Even Eric, the king of negativity, called you out after the Saints game saying how wrong you both were! Everyone tells you that you are wrong, yet I’ll give you credit for being persistent in your stupidity and never admitting it. Other than than, you are a sad little boy who’s got nothing better to do than criticize this team, and you have even stooped to the level of complaining about how our coach wears his pants. You are a joke, everyone knows it, yet you continue to come around because you obviously have nothing else in your sad, pathetic, little life.

  64. BigMacAttack Says:

    Jimmy Johnson went 1-15, 7-9, 11-5 playoffs, and then back to back titles. I’d say Raheem is ahead of schedule in comparison. Eric, I ask you, why is it that if a Buc Fan supports Raheem, that you assume he hates Chucky? Many of us that now support Raheem were hardcore Chucky fans. Chucky always gave us a chance to win, but he is gone bro and not coming back, ever. Sorry, but isn’t it time to get over it and move on? It’s going on 3 years now, so how long do you hold a grudge against an ex-wife? 20-30-40yrs, call an escort service. I think many if not most fans would have done things a little different when it comes to the Coaching/GM changes, but it will not change things and your beaten and bloodied horse is now a moot pile of bones.

  65. Hawaiian Buc Says:


    It’s not even comparable, so it’s not a double standard if the variables are different. I swear I thought you just agreed in this post. I guess you were being sarcastic.

    First of all, Gruden would never have been fired if we had not won the SB. I know you don’t believe that. The expectations were higher because he had a veteran, perennial playoff team. Obviously he would be expected to win quickly. However, had he not, he would not have been fired. That’s just stupid to suggest otherwise.

    And again, I expect Raheem to make the playoffs next year, not demand it. I will be incredibly disappointed, as will every fan. However, that doesn’t mean we should fire the man. The team is so incredibly young that he has a longer leash. Sorry if you can’t wrap your brain around that concept, but it is true. B!tch all you want, it doesn’t change the fact. Besides, last I checked year 3 hasn’t even started yet. Why don’t you wait until we don’t make the playoffs before you fire him. Talk about jumping the gun.

    Chucky was fired because he refused to go young, not because he didn’t win enough. I guess you will never get that. You are absolutely right that they were in salary cap hell and they did lose draft picks. However, they still drafted sh!tty. That really can’t be argued by even the biggest of Gruden homers. He had 7 years, and I truly do thank him for it. He did a lot for this organization, but it was time for him to go. It happens to every coach, it was just the right time. Let it go.

  66. Hawaiian Buc Says:


    I sure do hope you are right, and I do agree, this team does appear to be special.

  67. eric Says:


    I make no such assumptions. But many on here never miss an opportunity to take a shot at Chucky.

    As his unofficial defender I must respond. I also believe they are the same group than ran the man out of town and apply a double standard to Rah.

    Rah may well be on the right track to a championship, well see. Job well done last year as I previously stated.

  68. m.wesley Says:


  69. Mr. Lucky Says:

    Wesley you’re right on one thing: NFL owners want younger coaches like Morris for one reason:


  70. eric Says:


    the all caps does not add anything to your incomprehensible post.


    I hope they do win the Division, we shall see.

  71. Mr. Lucky Says:

    Eric – so YOU’RE the annointed Gruden supporter?


    Jon’s better off doing MNF and still collecting from the Glazers then he was here in Tampa.

  72. m.wesley Says:

    As if you really make can understand you are just a little upset right now not knowing where your dear Chuckys going to be,hes married anyways so you can get that out of your mind annointed one,and yes the young coaches are cheap,and I dont care if he is free as long as we are not treading water for the next six years.

  73. eric Says:

    And the usual homosexual innuendos.

    Very clever.

    Geez, don’t you people ever get a new playbook?

  74. m.wesley Says:

    Man I dont know what about you people?Or should i say your people?As usual you sit around and anytime something comes on board good about this man you down him.hes winning games turning the team around and you nick pick and complain.Maybe if you look at your own playbook instead of complaining and whining like a well im done with that and you say your divorced by anycoincidence was you married in San fran?you and your people,huh

  75. USFPete Says:

    You guys are nuts. Gruden was a phenomenal coach whose act ran out. Happens to all of them. The jury’s out on Raheem, but he did go from F to A- real fast. THis year will show what he’s made of. They have to win 10 again (assuming Freeman stays healthy). Nothing less will cut it.

  76. The D Says:

    Hey eric and Thomas, what are you predictions for next year?

  77. m.wesley Says:

    Gruden was a good coach,when Rah came in I thought he was over his head but he seems to have it together its a shamethe way some fans act toward him

  78. Tuggz Says:

    Not a surprise to see Sapp saying this. Because 1) it’s a logical approach (although worst to first CAN happen in sports) and 2) When he was a Buc, we got stomped by the Eagles in the playoffs/season year in and out until our eventual Superbowl playoff run.

  79. Capt.Tim Says:

    The Team is looking Fantastic. Got the Key components to be in the SuperBowl Chase foe the next Decade. We (finally) have a great coach and GM. We have had great ownership since the Glazers bought the team. Future looks good! Every expert in the league is smart enough to see that the Bucs are the dynasty in the making.
    Jon Gruden once designed “the motion offense”. It was fairly sucessful. He parlayed that offense into becoming an offensive co- ordinator, then head coach in Oakland. Then Tampa. The league had figured out how to stop the motion offense by the time Tampa won the Superbowl, and it became ineffective. Gruden couldn’t adapt it or evolve it, so itfell by the wayside. No one uses it now. Grudens deficiencies soon became apparent. His players disliked his arrogance, and quit on him to vet him fired. He couldn’t coach or teach young players. He also had no skills at accessing or drafting players. His is charismatic, and drew an abnormally loyal following in the Gay community. Actually football fans realized he had no coaching skills.
    It’s good He was fired. It’s good no one else is stupid enough to hire him. It’s good we’ve overcome the damage he did here. It’s sad that people who don’t really watch football are still in love with him, and keep posting on a football’s sad we keep wasting time talking about an incompetent coach.
    The future is here! Soon, Josh Freeman will have the Bycs in the national spotline, and we can all forget the horrible destruction of our Superbowl team at the hands of the failed Offensive coordinator- Lil Chucky.
    Soon, it will remain buried in the past!

  80. m.wesley Says:

    Great post Capt Tim, hit the nail right on the head!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  81. Mr. Lucky Says:

    Tim that last post was WRONG in so MANY ways dude!

  82. oar Says:

    Why is it Gruden gets the blame for releasing Sapp, Lynch, and Simeon? Kiffin was the one, who said he could get Bugger to take Sapps place. The one mistake Kiffin made and it was a huge mistake! As for Lynch and Simeon, well the medical staff was right on one and wrong on the other.
    Plus, you guys crack me up when it comes to blaming Gruden on the bad DEFENSIVE draft picks (Adams,etc), but don’t want to give him credit for the good ones (Tanard, Talib, Ruud, etc). I think Kiffin had alot of influence in those picks! But, it seems to me he only gets the credit when it’s bad, which is BS!
    BTW how long do you think our team was going to be able to hold onto all those great players? Teams get into cap trouble and players move on. I don’t like it, cause I’m more old school and grew up wahen teams were able to have most of thier players end thier careers with one team.
    Also, winnning seasons do not mean that team made the playoffs!? You can have one or the other. I guess the Seahawks had a winning season at under .500, cause they made the playoffs???????
    BTW Tomlin and Gruden are poor comparisons for exactly what Eric said, no high draft picks, no real QB, etc.
    Sorry, for being a day late and a dollar short on this.

  83. oar Says:

    You are one of those that can’t resist taking shots(usaualy homo-shots) at Gruden. I swear by the sound of some of you, you must not have been fans of our team, when he was head coach! As much hate you guys have for him, it’s truely sad!

  84. m.wesley Says:

    Oar ,I said according to Thomas last year was not a winning season because the Bucs did not make the playoffs,dont get it wrong that I hated Gruden when he was here I did not and I understand the reasoning of releasing old players.But what I was responding to was the guys that keep saying that Morris tore up Grudens team ,and I STILL SAY Gruden should be compared more to Tomlin because they had teams that everyone knows was ready to win.I am a supporter of the coach that we have now!I went through this same argument when Gruden replaced Dungy with family members it was time for a change.Can you really say its fair to compare gruden to Morris more than Tomlin?If you check my post I give Gruden credit for winning that superbowl I just feel cheated because we never came close to any success after that to get back there,progress is what I was looking for and we seemed to regress.The Giants gave up multiple draft picks to get ELI and they went on to win after that,and how many quarterbacks that could have been had but wasnt taken?I hated Morris as much as anyone last year but he came around .I joke and call him the great Rahiem but believe me I understand he has acomplished nothing yet but by no way will I wish failure on any coach thats coaching the Bucs,we have came to far to do that!I have a crush on the Bucs,no matter who the coach is and he shows progress .When Dungy left I could have cared less what he and Indy was doing,I dont even look at the playoffs because my season ends with the Bucs season

  85. oar Says:

    I have asked this before in other posts, not to you, but what QB should we have drafted, out of those “many”? Remember we didn’t have (2) 1st’s and (2) 2nd’s. Moving up in the draft would have required giving up even more picks. Just wondering. You guys bring that up alot and I never get an answer? They did try and replace those aging defensive players and offensive line, etc. Drafts are crap shoots for the most part.
    And again, no answer to my, “how long do you think our team was going to be able to hold onto all those great players?” question, either? I think Dungy had our best defenses prior to the SuperBowl.
    Or no answer to, “Why is it Gruden gets the blame for releasing Sapp, Lynch, and Simeon?” Those were meidcal staff and Kiffin calls.

  86. eric Says:

    Hey Captain Tim,

    Heres a quote from Greg Olsen:

    Olson said he also has had help from an unexpected source: Jon Gruden. The coach the Bucs fired in January established the guidelines Olson is using to rebuild the team’s offensive scheme.

    That doesn’t mean the play-calling will resemble Gruden’s. Olson is a more vertical play-caller, and the zone blocking scheme for the offensive line is a marked change from 2008. But, conceptually, Olson is using Gruden’s framework. With most of last season’s offensive personnel still on board, it was easier to speak to them in a language they knew.

    “In terms of terminology and a lot of the shifts and the motion, I try to keep it similar to what it was with Gruden,”

    Earnest Graham also stated in 2010 that the Bucs offense is “very similar to Grudens offense”.

    Bottom line: the Bucs themselves are running grudens offense!!!!!!!!!!!!

  87. m.wesley Says:

    OAR,he didnt have to move up to get a quarterback down was what he should have done he could have gotton rodgers ,cambell,orton we needed a qb and he is the guru,but everyone misses on players but he should have tried,as I said before Sapp and Lynch wasreleased premature but I also know the buisness of the game will force you to release players but why would Gruden replace them and he loves older players,he had his G.M in Allen?Ican see Sapp because his ego and Grudens could not coexist but why Lynch?Everyone makes mistakes but if you make the same mistake over and over it is called a flaw,Gruden could not keep the talent level up on his team he tried to replace players through the draft and with older players but maybe one good player per year.

  88. BigMacAttack Says:

    As much as I cared for Jon, he always gave up on the run too soon. I think Bruce ALlen was the major idiot behind the scenes responsible for many bad decisions, other than going cheap. And the number one difference between Olie’s offense and Gruden’s is that Olie’s is working and he has the players to support it, especially #5. Josh is the game changer. Blount is the catalyst and K2 is the clutch. Many of the young kids have a great shot to be stars.

  89. m.wesley Says:

    OAR, I dont know if you read it or not but I have said many times that Allen should have left and Gruden would have been better off.Him and Mckay would have been great but egos on both parts caused a split

  90. oar Says:

    That 2005 draft is alot easier to look at and complain about a QB not being taken, since we all know how our 1st rnd RB draft pick turned out. Hind sight is always 20-20! If Williams had continued to produce, like his rookie year and not get injured, that 2005 draft would be moot! Besides, I thought Griese was doing fine and he did(5-1 start), until he got hurt in 2005. Then Simms stepped in and finished (6-4)with the divison title.
    BTW 23 other teams passed on Rodgers.
    Again, Gruden was not the decision on Sapp. Kiffin and Sapp have both said, they thought Bugger would fill that void.
    Again, Lynch was a mis-informed medical decision. But, they were right about Simeon.

  91. oar Says:

    No, I did not read that. It’s all good. I just hate to see all the hate and mistaken/misconstrued statements about one of our old head coaches.
    BTW I agree with the Allen statement. Allen wasn’t very good at draft picks, but did get us out of cap hell. Something, Im not sure McKay could have done.

  92. oar Says:

    Agree with the Allen statements. But, some what disagree with the Olies’ offense. In Gruden’s 6 years, his offense ranked better than Olie’s in points 4 times and ranked better in yards 3 times. With that said, I will agree Olie does seem to have better players. In other words, Gruden usually got the best out of the players on hand, young and old.

  93. m.wesley Says:

    Oar,I said everyone misses on players,please dont get it the wrong way I understand that seeing the future would be great, but as we all know we need a qb,both Rodgers and Cambell were first round talents and you stated we needed players to compensate for lost draft picks why not trade get more picks and get best qb available. Do you know what he could have done with Cambell,I dont when want to think about Rodgers its scary,his gm could have been a whole lot better and we would not be having this conversation.

  94. RustyRhino Says:

    This sure sounds like a Challenge from Sapp to the D-line men and defense as a whole to me…… Hell even Sapp’s old coach Milliard…..

  95. RustyRhino Says:

    gitarlvr Says:
    February 16th, 2011 at 3:50 pm

    Awesome!! This should be a continual post to those who argue about those Division Banners… Am I not Proud of them?
    I am proud of them but they need to be put into context.
    Just like the 79 & 81 & 99 & 02 & 05 & 07 seasons.
    79 – 99 where the NFC Central Division Championships (Lions, Packers, Bears)
    02 – 07 NFC South Division Championships (Falcons, Saints, Panthers)
    What Division Championship do you find most impressive?
    GO Bucs!!

  96. Capt.Tim Says:

    Eric- Greg Olsen used some of Gruden’s terminology last year for a reason. They fired Jags with 3 weeks left before the season started. He didn’t have time to install a new offense. That was last year. This year there was no remnants of the Gruden offense. You can tell, because we dont have constant motion before the snap. The game plan book could be held in one hand by Olsen during the game. Oh- and we actually scored and won games- that was the big sign!
    Gruden clung to his rediculious offense long after it was apparent that everyone had figured it out. Yet another sign of his “ego before intelligence” issues.

  97. gitarlvr Says:

    Whatchu talkin bout Capt. Tim????????? GRUDENS OFFENSE IS THE CATS MEOW!!!!!! WAIT IT IS STILL THE YEAR 2000 RIGHT???

  98. gitarlvr Says:

    Is it just me or did Bill Callahan run Chucky’s offense better than he ever did?

  99. Joe Says:


    Is it just me or did Bill Callahan run Chucky’s offense better than he ever did?


  100. oar Says:

    Yeah, he must have and I guess that’s why he was only head coach in Oakland for that one year? No, his fault was he didn’t change Gruden’s playbook. I mean play for play! Even Lynch said things that lead to that in the SuperBowl! Keep that hate alive, though! It’s good for you!

  101. gitarlvr Says:

    Oar- There is zero doubt that Oakland’s offense was better in 2002 under Callahan than it ever was under Chucky. You can’t argue that. A year later and both Tim Brown and Jerry Rice had completely hit the wall physically and so of course things were not the same. So why was Oaklands offense better in 2002 with the same playbook as Gruden? Could it be becuase Callahan called the plays from that playbook better? The only haters on here are Thomas and Eric and Guest#27. If you want to join that crew, feel free. The Gruden hate on here comes from the fact that those clowns bash Raheem CONSTANTLY and won’t let go of their Gruden buttlicking. If the Raheem haters would stop comparing him to chucky we wouldn’t even be talking about chucky.

  102. oar Says:

    Hey look, I see Gruden bashing and it is not associated with Eric or #27 or any of the other Raheem doubters(or haters) on this site, everytime he is in one of Joe’s threads/stories! That is a fact! The Gruden hates comes from, well just that, hating Gruden! Not from Raheem hate?
    So, Callahan lost his job cause of Rice and Brown hitting a veteran wall? That is too F’n funny!
    Keep that hate alive, baby!

  103. gitarlvr Says:

    Oar- Im sure Eric and Thomas are glad to welcome you to there Gruden fanclub. Have fun with that. Don’t forget. New guy brings the vaseline.

  104. oar Says:

    Awesome! I always wanted to be in a club! I haven’t been this happy, since I first got my name in the phone book! Hey everybody look, I’m somebody now!
    I know I couldn’t have got in without your personal (wink wink) approval!
    BTW thanks for that vaseline tip! I always take someones advice who has experience!