Team Glazer And Leonard Tose
June 9th, 2010
Earlier this week, veteran sports columnist Gary Shelton of the St. Petersburg Times dropped in on the Hebrew-themed King David Show (sorry, it doesn’t sound very Catholic or Hindu to Joe) with co-hosts Toby David and Shaun King heard on WQYK-AM 1010.
Naturally, the talk was about the finances of Team Glazer after the BBC dropped a bombshell of a report pushed by an agenda-driven source claiming Team Glazer is so choked with debt that their creditors are carrying around graphics showing how to perform Heimlich maneuver.
It was during this conversation that Shelton invoked the notorious name of former Philadelphia Eagles owner Leonard Tose, a man who lost his team due to massive gambling debts, largely to an Atlantic City casino.
(In an ironic twist, Tose countersued said casino claiming staffers there got him drunk and made sure he stayed so well-lubricated and so inebriated that he couldn’t think straight, thus placing nothing but bad bets. Tose died a penniless man.)
“This isn’t a government organization where you can request papers and do an audit. These are private businessmen and you don’t get anything beyond their word. They insist they are not in any financial straights.
“If you put a gun to my head — do I believe the debt and the economy has limited their spending with the Bucs? Yes I do.
“You are 3-13 and you are telling me there isn’t more help for you out on the free agent market than Sean Jones? I just don’t believe that.
“Lets face it: every sports owner is in debt just because of the size of the payment of the team purchase and they will tell you they have plenty of money, but the public doesn’t see any of that.
“It would be an easy thing for [Team Glazer] to sell ManU but they don’t want to do that. What I would want to know if I was [NFL
wardencommissioner] Roger Goodell is if this franchise is in any financial threat because of ManU. So far the NFL offices have said they are not, but they also didn’t say that when Leonard Tose of the Eagles went bankrupt either. “
Now before we go any farther, Joe knows Shelton was in no way, shape or form insinuating Team Glazer has debts due to any gambling — and neither is Joe inferring that whatsoever. Don’t even go there. The comparison to Tose ends right there.
What Shelton did infer was that there is no way Goodell is going to stand before members of the pen and mic club and claim Team Glazer can’t buy jock straps because their kickball team has syphoned all of their cash.
From a business standpoint, there really isn’t anything dumber than for Goodell to pull a stunt like that, and Goodell is anything but stupid. So if Bucs fans hoping Goodell will shed truthful light upon the Bucs finances, it ain’t happening.
As Shelton stated, he reinforces what Joe has written several times already: the only people who really know if Team Glazer is fluid or not are their accountants. Any talk of their finances is pure guesswork.
One can make an argument that both Team Glazer is cheap and is not cheap.
But it’s sure fun to speculate.
June 9th, 2010 at 8:18 am
Joe,
Correct me I am wrong, but didn’t the NFL have a rule that no NFL team owner could own another sports franchise outside of the NFL up to around the time that Wayne Huirzuinga (spelled wrong) wanted to own the Dolphins & the Marlins in the very early 90’s ? Then they changed the rule to let him own both clubs. I think it was a good rule that was put in place for situations such as this one.
June 9th, 2010 at 8:27 am
tampa2:
You are correct but that only applies to North American teams. That’s why you see so many NFL owners investing and buying foreign kickball teams.
June 9th, 2010 at 8:32 am
He is right about The Glazers do not have to disclose their books for In the US for the Bucs. But in England they did have to disclose their companys and profits. That is why we are getting all the financial information from across the pond. The Bucs are not in debt. But they have had the budget cut to help pay for the soccer team.
The real truth will come out once the CBA us agreed upon. Even Payton Manning is having trouble getting a deal done.
June 9th, 2010 at 8:35 am
Jim Irsay will be crazier than his drunk old man ever was if he signs Peyton Manning before there is a CBA.
June 9th, 2010 at 8:44 am
I thought not extending existing players was just a Buc issue? Oh wait, many teams are not extending players. Never mind.
June 9th, 2010 at 8:55 am
Ditto, even Brady is having issues although the Pats are notoriously cheap. But the CBA issue looms large for every team. Everything hinges on next offseason assuming there is a CBA. If we show some progress this year and are still cheap in free agency next year, then I will forever leave the light (“kool-aid” drinker) and enter the dark side.
June 9th, 2010 at 9:17 am
And I will be right there with you Gary
June 9th, 2010 at 11:14 am
“Now before we go any farther, Joe knows Shelton was in no way, shape or form insinuating Team Glazer has debts due to any gambling — and neither is Joe inferring that whatsoever. Don’t even go there.”
Joe, you’re getting smart with such disclaimers. You eliminate at least three JimBuc comments by doing so.
June 9th, 2010 at 11:34 am
Louie:
The last thing Joe — or even Gary Shelton — needs is for someone to try to connect dots that aren’t even there. If Joe hadn’t written that disclaimer, Joe would have expected a very ugly phone call from One Buc Palace… or some legal type. Joe doesn’t need that. 🙂
June 9th, 2010 at 12:00 pm
If you put a gun to Jimbuc’s head and asked if the Glazers are having a financial pinch that is impacting the Bucs and the roster: Jimbuc would utter:
THE TEAM HAS A PLAN, IT IS TO GO YOUNG, THE GLAZERS ARE WEALTHY, I LOVE RAH, I LOVE DOM, LMAO”
Because that is all he has said on this blog for months. Even when Buc homers like Gary Shelton admit that at his core he knows the Bucs are having financial problems impacvtiong
June 9th, 2010 at 12:00 pm
impacting the team
June 9th, 2010 at 12:04 pm
Joe, How should the fans of tampa take this when they dont sign big name players or nice size contracts with this recent quote???
“Buccaneer fans should know that the Glazer family is as financially well-positioned as ever before,” Grella said in a written statement issued Monday. “Companies they own generate revenues in excess of $800 million each year. Each entity is independent and self-sufficient.
June 9th, 2010 at 12:27 pm
joey88:
Joe may sound like an apologist for saying this — Joe’s written this for months: Dangerous to sign anyone to a big-time contract if you don’t know what the salary cap will be, or for paying a massive signing bonus to someone who may not play in 2011 (lockout/strike).
Yeah, the Bears signed a bunch of people (some foolishly) but that’s a different animal. Lovie and company are on thin ice. Those signings were more a desperate attempt to keep their jobs than anything.
June 9th, 2010 at 12:50 pm
Thomas, again with the reading issue. This is what you said:
“If you put a gun to Jimbuc’s head and asked if the Glazers are having a financial pinch that is impacting the Bucs and the roster: Jimbuc would utter:
THE TEAM HAS A PLAN, IT IS TO GO YOUNG, THE GLAZERS ARE WEALTHY, I LOVE RAH, I LOVE DOM, LMAO”
Because that is all he has said on this blog for months. Even when Buc homers like Gary Shelton admit that at his core he knows the Bucs are having financial problems impacvtiong”
Thomas, “[b]ecasue that is all he has said on this blig for months? Really?This is what I have actually said in response to the question of whether they are cheap:
JimBuc Says:
June 8th, 2010 at 3:40 pm
They are right now
This is what I said in calling you out for being ridiculously negative to the point of absurdity (read the second paragraph) because you grossly mischaracterized Ira Kaufman’s statement:
JimBuc Says:
June 8th, 2010 at 9:14 pm
Thomas — think about this. I was not even commenting about the Bucs. I was commenting about YOU and how laughably one sided all of your commentary is. You literally rush to this website to spew your negative views. Look on the other article about Williams. You could not stand any good reviews so you quickly rushed in to dampen the story as “hype.” Here, your comments are ven funnier because you first characterize Kaufman’s comments (in an apparent attempt to be “fair”) but then undo what ever effort you made by giving that hillarious summary at the end. LMAO. You cannot help yourself as witnessed by the fact that you don’t even defend yourself, instead you attack me. LMAO. You are so funny
Even when I comment on what I perceive to be a rush to judgment on the Glazers, I still acknowledge that right now they are being cheap and ManU is part of the reason. Thomas, nothing in the world is as grotesquely one-sided as the imaginary world you live in.”
Thomas, I posted this as I was falling on the floor laughing at your ridiculous characterization of Kaufman’s comments. Seems I too am a victim of your fast and losse treatment of the truth.
Poor Thomas.
June 9th, 2010 at 12:57 pm
@Joe: So, “The Dream” and Co aren’t on thin ice after a 3-13 season???!!!
I understand the CBA is an issue and I completely understand why a team like Indy can’t re-sign Manning (because he takes such a huge chunk of an unknown cap number). But, even Indy (according to Polian) is at least talking to Manning’s agent about parameters for a deal.
I just think a 3-13 team has to do something to improve and has to protect itself to some degree from next year when they’ll be faced with re-signing or losing 17 UFA’s.
June 9th, 2010 at 1:07 pm
The Broncos just recently wrapped up a long term deal with a RFA o-lineman.
It aint against the law or anything.
I doubt any of our RFA’s are looking at Peyton money……………..so the Colts waiting on him is another kettle of fish altogether.
THe better comparison is what the Broncos did………vs. what the bucs haven’t done. Especially troublesome is the all important left tackle position, which is the key to protecting Mr. Freeman.
June 9th, 2010 at 1:08 pm
I think the Bucs (and the Glazers) are great!
June 9th, 2010 at 1:22 pm
More PROOF that those Glazers are Wicked Cheapskates and Mavericks: Looks like two more BUC players are holding out for long-term extensions:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5267660
Oh . . wait . . . not Bucs, but Chargers . . . two Charger Pro-Bowl players that are not getting extensions and refuse to sign their tenders . . uh . . well . . strike that.
Maybe the Chargers are broke too. Do they own Arsenal or Liverpool. 🙂
June 9th, 2010 at 1:24 pm
Louie:
Apparently not, certainly not to the extent of Lovie Smith. For that guy, it’s playoffs or unemployment.
Expectations are modest for Raheem the Dream this season. Now if the team repeats the record of last year, Joe believes all bets are off.
June 9th, 2010 at 1:29 pm
Damn those GLAZERS, look at this! 37 players refusing to sign their tenders and the Bucs have . . . . one . . .oh . . . never mind. (Man there are a lot of broke, kickball owning teams in the NFL)
Club Name Player Name Pos
Arizona Cardinals Lutui, Deuce G
Baltimore Ravens Gaither, Jared T
Baltimore Ravens Landry, Dawan SS
Baltimore Ravens McClain, Le’Ron FB
Carolina Panthers Davis, Thomas OLB
Carolina Panthers Marshall, Richard CB
Cleveland Browns Elam, Abram SS
Cleveland Browns Harrison, Jerome RB
Cleveland Browns Jackson, D’Qwell ILB
Cleveland Browns Roth, Matt OLB
Cleveland Browns Vickers, Lawrence FB
Dallas Cowboys Austin, Miles WR
Dallas Cowboys Sensabaugh, Gerald SS
Denver Broncos Dumervil, Elvis OLB
Green Bay Packers Bigby, Atari SS
Green Bay Packers Jolly, Johnny DE
Green Bay Packers Williams, Tramon CB
Houston Texans Daniels, Owen TE
Indianapolis Colts Bethea, Antoine FS
Kansas City Chiefs Page, Jarrad FS
Miami Dolphins Brown, Ronnie RB
Miami Dolphins Fasano, Anthony TE
Minnesota Vikings Edwards, Ray DE
New England Patriots Mankins, Logan G
New Orleans Saints Brown, Jammal T
New Orleans Saints Harper, Roman SS
New Orleans Saints Moore, Lance WR
New Orleans Saints Thomas, Pierre RB
San Diego Chargers Floyd, Malcom WR
San Diego Chargers Jackson, Vincent WR
San Diego Chargers McNeill, Marcus T
San Diego Chargers Merriman, Shawne OLB
St. Louis Rams Atogwe, Oshiomogho FS
Tampa Bay Bucs Penn, Donald T
Tennessee Titans Tulloch, Stephen MLB
Washington Redskins McIntosh, Rocky OLB
Washington Redskins Rogers, Carlos CB
June 9th, 2010 at 1:56 pm
http://blogs.forbes.com/sportsmoney/2010/06/value-of-tampa-bay-buccaneers-sinking/
Yea, Forbes is a bunch of haters too!
June 9th, 2010 at 2:03 pm
Louie,
As soon as the Bucs are winning and all the bandwagon fans such as yourself come back the teams value will be right back where it was.
June 9th, 2010 at 2:05 pm
@Joe…… I didnt mean to sign them to a contract now or before a lockout/strike. I mean what will be their excuse when they dont start spending cash after this supposed lockout/strike? I would hope you wouldnt take their side again would ya????? You just make secretly love their kickball team.lol…
June 9th, 2010 at 2:10 pm
joey88 — they will not have an excuse and everyone — me included — should boycott
June 9th, 2010 at 2:14 pm
Good question. Time will tell.
Seems they’ve already conditioned people in saying if they think they need a player or two to get over the top they will do that.
Will the team get that close in the near future?
June 9th, 2010 at 2:14 pm
@d-money: They won’t be able to win without spending some money.
Why is it that unless you’re an apologist for the team, you’re a bandwagon fan? News bulletin: you can be a fan and not agree with what the team is (or is not) doing. I don’t question your loyalty for the team; don’t you dare question mine. I’m sure I’ve been a Bucs fan at least as long as you and probably longer.
June 9th, 2010 at 2:35 pm
Louie,
Regarding the Forbes article, someone needs to tell Mr. Ozanian that he’s a hater and that it’s none of his damn business what the Bucs are worth – even if he is an editor at Forbes.
June 9th, 2010 at 3:05 pm
A player or two to get over the top?????????????????????
A player or two to get over the top????????????????????
June 9th, 2010 at 3:52 pm
Eric — I heard they are stll intersted in BM!! 🙂
June 9th, 2010 at 6:07 pm
Hey did anyone see that Storm victory last Saturday!
June 9th, 2010 at 6:08 pm
Just think if/when there is lockout in 2011 we’ll still have the Florida Tuskers. Think Luke McCown will find a job there?
June 9th, 2010 at 6:38 pm
@Louie
Why not just post it for JimBuc! Forbes is just a “rag” isn’t it?
Forbes
Malcolm Glazer’s Tampa Bay Buccaneers need to repair their ship before it sinks. Last year we valued the franchise at almost $1.1 billion but the value will fall well below $1 billion when we update our rankings in September. An NFL executive told me today that for the first time in several years the Buccaneers fell out of the top 10 in the league in revenue in 2009. The team told the St. Pete Times that for the first time in 15 years some of their games will probably be blacked out in their local market. The season ticket waiting has essentially evaporated. Buc fans are angry at the lack of money being spent on players. Some blame Glazer’s highly leveraged purchase of Manchester United. It does not matter if that is true. What matters is that is what fans think is true. The Glazer family needs to plug this hole before it takes the Bucs down
Explain this, please JimBuc
June 9th, 2010 at 7:03 pm
What is there to explain Tampa 2? Do you think there is some connection to Madoff that the author left out?
June 9th, 2010 at 7:11 pm
Why is it that everyone thinks the Bucs situation is unique. This is what I find in a 10 second Internet search (the writer is from Kansas and the article is almost 10 months old):
“The undeniably successful National Football League may have reached a saturation point. After years of growth on TV, the combined effect of the recession and the comfort of watching games from home may be taking a toll on America’s most popular sport.
Advertisers love NFL football, because audience ratings are consistently good. They’re especially good for the Super Bowl.
So why is there concern? Well, recently I read that up to four times the number of NFL teams are at risk of having at least one of their games blacked out locally this season, compared with last year.
The NFL had become so popular that most fans, even those with bad football teams, still wanted tickets. It appears that trend and gravy train are about to max out.
Tickets are still in demand in many NFL cities, but rising ticket prices and losing teams are taking its toll.
Consider Exhibit A, the Kansas City Chiefs. The Chiefs have a deep fan base, but they have not fully sold out all their games in advance this year.
Last year, only three teams—Oakland, Detroit and St. Louis—suffered blackouts. The NFL last year saw 96 percent of its games broadcast locally, with only nine of 257 regular-season games being blacked out. That number is likely to climb this season.
There’s something about attending a game in person that can’t be matched at home. There’s the atmosphere surrounding the game, the opportunity to cheer for your team with 80,000 or so of your closest friends.
Of course, there’s also parking hassles, high ticket prices, uncertain weather, expensive concessions, not to mention pat downs. That’s right. To further increase security, fans will be patted down before entering stadiums for all pro football games this season. Fans are separated by sex at entry gates and screened by hired security officers of the same sex. Everyone entering the stadium will be screened.
When you watch a game on TV at home, you don’t have parking issues, except choosing which comfortable chair or sofa to park in. You’re also close to food, beverages and bathrooms.
Say what you want about TV timeouts, but you’ll find the long timeouts particularly irksome, particularly when you’re attending a game in person.
There’s some thought that teams like the Cleveland Browns, or the Bills can sell tickets despite a poor economy because they have the lowest ticket prices in football. If the demand for tickets has dropped, and the value of the product has declined, you could make an argument that the cost for that product should also decline”
Add to this general market condition, the Bucs poor performance, the spending issue (whether real or preceived because perceived is all that matters) and is it any doubt that the Bucs would struggle in a sports market like Tampa (in case you have not n oticed Tampa is not a very strong sports market).
Again, does anyone every read any news outside of the local market?
June 10th, 2010 at 6:47 am
I read bloomberg – but they don’t cover sports!
June 10th, 2010 at 6:48 am
Does Cheerleard Today count Joel?
June 10th, 2010 at 6:49 am
PS. I ONLY read the articles in Cheerleader Today, not the pictures!
June 10th, 2010 at 8:38 am
The author of the Forbes article, who is an editor there by the way, wrote:”when WE update our rankings in September”. This leads me to believe that he has some sort of insight into the financial situation of ALL 32 NFL teams. And for him to then write this article, it leads me to further believe that he does see something unique about the Glazer/Buccaneer situation.