Trading For Holmes Would Have Been “Silly”
April 13th, 2010
Former Bucs defensive end and JoeBucsFan.com analyst Steve White doesn’t agree with Joe about Santonio Holmes. All angles considered, White believes the Bucs made a good call to pass on the young, weed-smoking wide receiver.
On White’s blog, he lays out his take thoroughly. Joe recommends you click here and read the entire analysis.
One snippet Joe found particularly interesting was the following. White has said many times that the Bucs have a PR problem, and he makes the case that bringing in Holmes would have added to those woes.
There are reasons that the Bucs really COULDN’T trade for Holmes anyway. First off after they let Antonio Bryant leave via free agency the Bucs tried relentlessly to spin it as a move brought on by Bryant’s bad attitude. Unfortunately a lot of fans bought that particular line of bullshit and started really heaping smears on him that I don’t think he deserved. I saw on more than one forum fans calling AB a scumbag etc. So how then could the Bucs justify bringing in a guy who has even MORE problems?
Not only that but the Bucs have put SOOOO much focus on their draft up to this point and to hear them tell it every single pick from the 1st rounder to the 7th rounder is going to be a starter and a future all star…or so they hope. And keep in mind that the supposed depth of this draft is the reasoning behind why the Bucs haven’t been active in free agency…allegedly. So in that situation a 5th rounder isn’t really a fifth rounder anymore. Instead its the potential steal of the draft, a guy who could have gone 1st round in any other year blah blah blah. So for the Bucs to give up said 5th round pick they would have again had to go back and contradict what they have been saying all along. And of course we couldn’t have that could we?
White also has a good take on Mark Dominik’s and Raheem The Dream’s possible perspective on the deal, citing how their jobs could be in serious jeopardy before Holmes takes the field following his suspension. Again, Joe recommends you read the whole thing.
Whatever one’s perspective on the Holmes non-deal, it’s sad that the Bucs have put themselves in the position to be so hurting for talented wide receivers that they have to consider troubled players just to be competitive.
April 13th, 2010 at 4:11 pm
Joe, I think you stated in the last paragraph the key to what most of us feel. Had the Bucs not been so negligent in allowing the WR position to become so poor, we wouldn’t be screaming every time they pass on a talented WR. It’s just that the situation is so desperate, we feel the Bucs must do something — ANYTHING — to improve that position.
For gods sake, we’ve got a franchise QB who has no credible recievers to throw to!!!
April 13th, 2010 at 4:20 pm
First off after they let Antonio Bryant leave via free agency the Bucs tried relentlessly to spin it as a move brought on by Bryant’s bad attitude.
I’m sorry, that’s just not accurate. Please find one quote where the Bucs said Bryant had a bad attitude and that’s why they let him walk. No doubt plenty of speculation on here and in the press, but I don’t think there is a single quote to back this up.
April 13th, 2010 at 4:32 pm
what a load of crap you mean the bucs are sooooo good and the draft sooo rich that here was no free agent they could sign or draft for. you have got to be kidding, we could not use Rolle, Holmes or anyone else.
April 13th, 2010 at 4:36 pm
Off-topic, sort of, but Marshall just signed his tender, meaning Denver can trade him. Perhaps we’ll finally see a conclusion to this saga of his.
April 13th, 2010 at 4:38 pm
We won’t be picking any 5th rounder(unless we have a trade pick). We gave that pick and our 2nd last year to Cleveland for Kellan Win-slow.
April 13th, 2010 at 4:42 pm
@OAR, we got a 5th for McCown.
April 13th, 2010 at 4:43 pm
Thought that was a seventh rounder? I’ll have to check on that.
April 13th, 2010 at 4:46 pm
Louie, “The Bucs could yield as high as a fifth-round pick based on the conditions of the trade.” Since he didn’t play or didnt play much for them, it will probablly be a lower pick 6th or 7th.
April 13th, 2010 at 4:49 pm
We already traded a 6th rounder for Reggie “sorry ass” Brown , so this theory about saving every draft pick is already out the window.
The fact is our front office are just idiots and there is no rhyme or reason to what they might do . They are clueless.
April 13th, 2010 at 4:50 pm
I bett that brandon marshall goes to the redskins unless dominick get an ok for a trade to happen from ownership which I doubt that will happen . I would love to see marshall in pewter and red but its all on the bucs brass to make that happen because Freemen needs a weapon to throw too and I willing to bett that dominick and raheem expect freemen to turn clayton and stroughter into probowlers!
April 13th, 2010 at 4:50 pm
@OAR, sorry we got the 5th for Alex Smith.
April 13th, 2010 at 4:54 pm
“Whatever one’s perspective on the Holmes non-deal, it’s sad that the Bucs have put themselves in the position to be so hurting for talented wide receivers that they have to consider troubled players just to be competitive.”
We have been taking “troubled” players for the entire Gruden era. That is not new.
April 13th, 2010 at 4:57 pm
..and by the way . AB IS a scumbag, and not just the Bucs think that. I mean he was such a pain in the ass that, as talented as he is , he had to sit out an entire season because no wanted him. If it wasn’t for Jon Gruden ressurecting him , he’d be playing for the Florida Tuskers right now.
April 13th, 2010 at 4:59 pm
Louie, That’s right forgot about that trade to New England, cause I saw where he signed with the Eagles last September.
April 13th, 2010 at 5:02 pm
I think if the bucs are concerned with contradictions, that is a new development.
Even their contradictions have contradictions.
April 13th, 2010 at 7:37 pm
Hey I KNOW the reason the Bucs didn’t give the Steelers a measly 5th round pick for Holmes:
Dominik has already talke to Denver and there’s a deal in the works for the Bucs to get Marshall ……
Hey I’m still on my kool-aid high!
April 13th, 2010 at 7:38 pm
Radio Mushmouth how do you call AB a “scumbag”??? Did you know him personally??? I would rather hurl insults at wide receivers who did not produce. Antonio Bryant produced but we have many over the years who have not and some are still on the team. I would be happy if we had Antonio Bryant as at least then opposing defenses would have a wide receiver they fear. Right now we have none and I don’t see any on the horizon either. But wait you must be thinking of that pro bowler we are getting ready to draft that doesn’t have a name yet….
April 13th, 2010 at 7:40 pm
Just for the record I think we all know now why Jon Gruden was constantnly resurrecting troubled players. I am sure he wanted established good character guys but the Glazers could only afford guys that had character issues etc etc. Those guys come on the cheap!
April 13th, 2010 at 8:30 pm
It’s the fact that all that Raheem had to give up was a 5th round pick that pisses me off.
Wheather or not this guy is a headcase off the field, a 5th round pick in exchange is such a great deal for a talent like him!! Be realistic, what are the chances of a 5th rounder even working out for us????!!!!!! It’ll just go to waste.
And even if Holmes didn’t work out, it wouldn’t really hurt us. Because it’s just a freakin 5th rounder!!
I’m so tired of this crap. This team has just gotten WORSE since the end of last year. Zero improvement. And even if you are “building through the draft”, there’s no excuse for sitting on your ass in free agency considering you just came off a 3-13 season! Bryant was let go, with no proven replacement for him! And now Wilkerson, our best D lineman, is about sign with the Saints! If the season started today, we would be lucky if we beat the Lions!!
We should’ve gotten Santonio Holmes. Like I said above, it’s very rare that you only have to give up a 5th rounder for an elite talent like him.
April 13th, 2010 at 8:32 pm
@Nick You are sooo right! Good post!
April 13th, 2010 at 9:03 pm
@Nick Amen brother!! You exactly right. Considering what little the Glazers gave Jon to work with, I’d say he made chicken salad out of chicken shit.
April 13th, 2010 at 9:49 pm
I was scratching my head since yesterday about why Dom did not get it done. After reading this article, it kind of makes sense. Dom and Rah basically contradicted themselves about not-rebuilding/rebuilding and have taken serious flak for it. They will not make that mistake again at least to avoid looking like fools. LOL, are we doomed for eternity Joe?
April 13th, 2010 at 9:56 pm
Were the Bucs going to win the SB or even make the playoffs this year with AB? What round pick will they get for him? Maybe not such a dumb move if you are looking long-term?
April 13th, 2010 at 11:21 pm
JimBuc the only thing we got for letting AB walk was the worst receiving corp in the NFL. No compensation or draft picks for the future. With a promising young quarterback that is unforgivable. Big John for you, the only reason they let AB go was he was going to cost money. They made up stories about his attitude about running his own routes etc etc etc but the real story was the money. If you were an intellgient owner or GM can you tell me you would rather have Michael Clayton running the go route or Antonio Bryant? Pleeeeeease I have seen AB make catches that Clayton could only dream he could make because the guy just can’t catch.
April 13th, 2010 at 11:30 pm
Marshall signed the tender, perhaps paving the way for a trade.
Are they going to convert or miss another opportunity to help five?
April 13th, 2010 at 11:38 pm
Nick — The Bucs will get a compensatory pick, likely a 3rd round pick.
April 13th, 2010 at 11:41 pm
Eric — this one is worth watching. I think many assume the Bucs use one of the 2nds on a WR. Marshall is better than anyone they could draft in the 2nd and he is young. Only issue would be character, but hard to understand letting Marshall get by unless someone like Seattle does something crazy.
April 13th, 2010 at 11:45 pm
I really only have 2 questions at this point.
1. How many commenters actually did as Joe advised and clicked the link to read the full post and
2. How many commenters know someone who smoked weed on a regular basis who was able to quit almost cold turkey and never smoked it again or at least not for several years?
April 13th, 2010 at 11:48 pm
Nick:
Peter King of SI reported that if the Bucs don’t sign any other UFAs, the Bucs can expect a 3rd round compensatory pick in 2011 for losing Antonio Bryant to the Bengals.
Now think about:
1. Bucs not going to SB or even playoff in 2010
2. AB unhappy over contract
3. Buc unhappy over contract
4. Bucs and AB unhappy with each other
5. Bucs do not want to sign AB to long deal due to CBA and questions over knee
6. Bucs essentially traded him for a 3rd round pick
Makes more sense when you think of it that way, doesn’t it?
April 13th, 2010 at 11:50 pm
@jimbuc
I agree it would be a good move for a number 2. At one time I thought for sure Dom had that in mind. But this Holmes thing has me thinking its unlikely, since that would have only taken a fifth rounder.
Thinking very optimistically, maybe serious talks have already been taking place.
But, we shall see. I think it is a sure bet he won’t be playing in Denver next year though.
April 13th, 2010 at 11:52 pm
@jimbuc
But wait a minute Jimbuc, if the bucs get a third rounder, it means AB had a great season in Cinci, which he could have had here!
April 14th, 2010 at 12:04 am
@steve
I did read the whole thing.
As far as the smoking weed thing, cold turkey would be tough.
But, if the Bucs don’t get Marshall, are we all crazy to be nervous as hell going into the season with this crew of receivers plus whatever rookie we get in the draft?
Isn’t there a danger of messing up our franchise QB with that approach?
April 14th, 2010 at 12:11 am
1) I read your whole blog and I enjoyed it.
2) I quit smoking pot cold turkey about five months ago to pass a drug test for me new job. Had no problem and lost about 12 pounds.
April 14th, 2010 at 6:48 am
Steve,
I read the blog and I disagree with you regarding the “character issue”
Let’s face it if Father Dungy were here no way would Holmes’s name have even come up – Dungy set the standards high. So much that TJ and Talib would not be on the roster.
The main premesis of our article is that the Bucs have set themselves up so that every draft pick is gonna be a starter – that is not only untrue but seriously unrealistic.
The Bucs got lucky with Sammy Stroughter last year but at the 5th round the pick is “iffy” – at least with Holmes you know what you were going to get.
The only reason I can see the Bucs passing on this was due to having a deal in the works for Marshall or drafting a WR in round 2.
April 14th, 2010 at 8:32 am
NewsFlash: About 90% of the NFL smokes weed, it’s just most of them haven’t gotten caught yet .
If you think weed makes you a bad person , you are not even going to be able to fill out a 53 man roster….
April 14th, 2010 at 8:58 am
Radiot: “90% of the NFL smokes weed…”
What a crock of shit! Dude you need to reach down and pull your head out of your ass. You are seriously dumber than dirt and the reason abortions are legal. It’s just too bad the doctor couldn’t get all of you. We just got left with the shit.
Just once, please, and only once, try to make a halfway intelligent comment.
I know the site is really getting popular, but we have a serious cockroach infestation and someone, Joe, needs to call the exterminator.
April 14th, 2010 at 9:15 am
Yes because admitting pro atheletes smoke weed is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO outrageous. Apparently you miss the draft report every year when nearly all of prospects admit to have smoking weed.
BigMac, you’re douche bag….and no one cares who you want exterminated , including Joe. Now go back to kissing Steve White’s ass and hoping he responds to you with a pat on the head, ya joke.
April 14th, 2010 at 9:16 am
ERic — we got our answer. Miami picked Marshall up for 2 second round picks
April 14th, 2010 at 2:11 pm
I wonder if i am allowed to legally smoke some “blunt” for medicinal purposes – such as severe depresion watching the blocking icon “play” football instead of the variety of good receivers the bucs could have got.
April 14th, 2010 at 4:01 pm
Eric you can only legally smoke Blunts at away games in San Francisco / Oakland. San Diego & Seattle should be available soon.