“Sound Decison To Stay Away From Holmes”
April 12th, 2010
Taking a break from spreading agent-driven speculation, Bucs beat writer Rick Stroud, aka Mad Twitterer, informed his readers today that stud wide receiver Santonio Holmes wasn’t worth the risk for the Bucs.
Joe was quite astounded by The Mad Twitter’s logic. Here’s some of it, if you can stomach it:
Why would a team trade for a guy who is not available until Oct. and just one positive drug test away from being suspended for the year or worse?
So is Stroud saying Tanard Jackson, who himself is a slip away from a long suspension, has no trade value? Joe highly doubts that’s the case. And what’s the real risk when you’re 3-13 with arguably the worst receiving corps in football, and no salary cap?
Here’s more logic from Stroud making a case against Holmes.
Holmes has a history of being charged with domestic violence. In 2006, he was arrested for allegedly choking and throwing the mother of one of his children to the ground. That same year, he was popped for disorderly conduct in South Beach.
Joe can’t argue with the facts, but Joe sure doesn’t remember Stroud up in arms when the Bucs signed and re-signed King of Turds Jerramy Stevens, whose background is worse than Holmes’. Where were you then, Stroud?
In typical Stroud talk-down-to-you fashion, he finishes his thesis blasting sports radio and blogs..
But to make the Holmes trade to the Jets an example of the Bucs’ front office failures is ridiculous and a cheap way to stir banal chatter on the radio or fan blogs.
Joe wonders whether Stroud really has a clue how fans think.
If Stroud got off his high horse once in a while, he surely would understand why sports radio and blogs — the voices of the fans — view the Bucs missing out on Holmes as a collossal screwup.
In very simple terms (so Stroud can understand), the Bucs are desperately in need of a young, true No. 1 receiver. Holmes was there, and they missed out while he went to a playoff team (with a second-year quarterback) for a low fifth-round pick.
It’s just that simple.
April 12th, 2010 at 4:10 pm
Hacks like Stroud are the reason newspapers are going out of business.
April 12th, 2010 at 4:15 pm
Stroud,
Do you know the meaning of the word “allegation”.
April 12th, 2010 at 4:16 pm
You know what,
I hate haters, and I am sick of all the negativity, but I’m actually pissed off that we let Holmes go to the Jets. The guy really could have helped #5, and the offense as a whole. He’d draw double coverage some of the time, and make life at least a little easier on Stroughter and/or K2.
Having said that, Rah and Dom must surely have some great plans for draft day…
Thanks, as always Joe, for your awesome Buccaneer coverage.
April 12th, 2010 at 4:29 pm
You are more than welcome safety, thanks for the kind words.
Even if — please don’t take this the wrong way — glass half-full fans are irritated at this, that speaks volumes.
Joe has given Mark Dominik the benefit of the doubt on many things. The dearth of wide receivers, and not taking this low-risk/high-reward move for Holmes makes it very difficult for Joe to remain objective.
April 12th, 2010 at 4:30 pm
Yeah the Bucs have had someREALLY productive round 5 draft picks:
Josh Johnson
Xavier Fulton
Greg Peterson
Julian jenkins
I would rather have heard Radio Morris say: We didn’t want to have Holms supplying Tanard jackson with any pot. at least that would have been more honest
April 12th, 2010 at 4:31 pm
Its not just Stroud. The print jouranlists for the major newspapers are so soft and accepting of anything and everything the Bucs and Glazers put out there that it is just maddening. I really believe that they do their jobs in fear of the Glazers. They act like if they challenge them that they or their paper will be retailiated against and excluded from information or access. The Glazers waved their sabers and got Silieo a week off, now the rest of the print media acts like they are scared to take them on. Message to Stroud, Eye-Rah, Kaufman, Holder and Richardson: please grow a set!
April 12th, 2010 at 4:32 pm
Joe wrote “…makes it very difficult for Joe to remain objective.”
I’m beginning to sense a pattern here Joe –
Joe’s objective? Maybe I’ll ask Sabby the goat or King of Turds Stevens?
April 12th, 2010 at 4:38 pm
Not to pat myself on the back, but I predicted earlier today that the local media would be out to provide the Glazers cover.
Did not take them long. Others will follow.
April 12th, 2010 at 4:49 pm
Joe is very fair, as always. 🙂 However,the boys in the print media still need to grow a set in their dealings with the team they are assigned to cover. And yes you are correct, Sileo is very fortunate to be employed with all of his on air antics which often times are over the top.
April 12th, 2010 at 5:17 pm
Stroud is a homer and an apologist. He defends Morris and the lack of inactivity by the Bucs like we should be ok with it? Give me a break.
He need to grow a set or STFU.
April 12th, 2010 at 5:18 pm
I had no idea of the contractual restrictions the Glazers had in place concerning when they can be “critiqued” on Clearchannel.
Is that a common practice for NFL teams with the stations that broadcast their games?
Sounds like something that should be disclosed to listeners, kinda like the Dilfer/McCoy thing.
April 12th, 2010 at 5:44 pm
Sounds like Clear Channel has the same deal with the Glazerhouses that Joe has with “you know who”.
April 12th, 2010 at 6:15 pm
To those of you who think the media is too soft on my team:
You’re Fired! Oh that’s right i can’t do that…
Ok then you’re banned to a dismal season of low paid NFL rejects…hehehe
April 12th, 2010 at 6:22 pm
GIVE ME A FU***** BREAK! WE’RE TALKING ABOUT A DAMN FIFTH ROUND PICK! Issues or no issues, we should have gotten him!! Santonio Holmes is a quality receiver that would’ve been a huge boost to our joke of a receiving corps!
Forget about all the off the field stuff. A fifth round pick for Holmes is a great deal! SHAMEFUL. These are deals we need to make!!!!!
April 12th, 2010 at 6:37 pm
What part of “aren’t spending money on free agents or trades” don’t everyone understand? These tight-asses aren’t going to sign anyone that may cost them money this year or next. They don’t give a damn what we may think. They have their designated spin doctor now. And they have the media on board to go along with whatever “tightfisted” move they may make. It’s all about the money. Clearchannel wants Team Glazers money, so they will kiss ass to get it. Stroud will write any article to try and justify whatever team Glazer wants to do. So will Ira at the Trib. The only honesty in reporting comes from sites like this. You shouldn’t remain objective, Joe. Tell it like it is and don’t worry about reprocussions. That is why we like your site!
April 12th, 2010 at 6:41 pm
We’ve got enough trash on this team. Why add Santonio to it?
Bucs fans have really lowered their standards…
Long gone are the days when people were disgusted by the Jerramy Stevens signing. Oh wait, Gruden did those so it was ok.
April 12th, 2010 at 6:43 pm
@tampa2
Well said sir.
I am also glad to see Joe call them out on this one.
April 12th, 2010 at 6:44 pm
All of this will be moot when it turns out that Leon Washington is part of the deal. Sorry, Peter King.
April 12th, 2010 at 6:45 pm
Raheem and Dumbinik don’t think that Holmes fits “their stupid ass direction.”
April 12th, 2010 at 6:46 pm
Says a lot about a guy when a QUALITY franchise like the Pittsburgh Steelers lets go of him…
April 12th, 2010 at 6:50 pm
@ SNOOK
The Steelers have nothing to lose. They’re an elite franchise. Without Holmes, they can still be a good franchise. A team like the bucs needs a guy like Santonio Holmes!
April 12th, 2010 at 6:54 pm
If the Steelers are so high and mighty why is their QB still on the team. Didnt he have far worse “allegations”?
April 12th, 2010 at 7:10 pm
Joe, Joe, Joe . . . you sound like Jon, Jon, Jon . . . Gruden, that is. Have you been asleep for the last year? Trading anything of value for Santonio Holmes, let alone picks, is the kind of behavior and short-term thinking that got the Bucs into this mess.
Given the coaching connection, the Bucs were perfectly situated to have the best understanding about Holmes. The fact that we didn’t take him speaks volumes about Holmes and it shows, for better or worse, that the Gruden/Allen win NOW at all cost method is officially dead.
April 12th, 2010 at 7:20 pm
Jake: Sileo was lucky to get only a week off. In case you forgot, he defamed them with a grotesque lie that bordered on being an anti-semitic slur. As for the rest of the “soft” media, did you think they were soft when they were crushing Gruden over and over? Maybe its not that the media is wrong. Maybe (just maybe) you are too tough on the Bucs and the Glazers. Then again, I am sensing you might be a Sileo fan, so maybe not.
April 12th, 2010 at 7:45 pm
@JimBuc wrote “…it shows, for better or worse, that the Gruden/Allen win NOW at all cost method is officially dead.”
Yeah it proves that the Morris/Dominik don’t win now is officially here!
April 12th, 2010 at 8:14 pm
@JimBuc, wasted most of Saturday debating with you, not doing it today, sorry. Pretty much ambivalent about Sileo. Don’t know where your going with the anti Semetic angle. I am jewish myself and saw none of that in any of Sileo’s comments. Its easy to target an upopular coach but I sense the major outlets fear retribution in terms of team access or team information if they are deemed overly critical of ownership. No one outlet wants to wear the scarlet letter, while the others get the scoop.
April 12th, 2010 at 8:17 pm
Who freakin cares ?? It’s a 5th round pick !!
I would sign HITLER for a 5th round pick , if he could play like santonio
April 12th, 2010 at 8:31 pm
Jake, fair enough. You may have a point with the local media, I was just pointing out that maybe they rightfully think they went to far with the Gruden bashing. Or, maybe you are too tough on the current regime. Who knows.
Mr. Lucky, I guess it is fair to compare the current regime to the last. You know, they both had about the same amount of time and all . . .
April 12th, 2010 at 8:49 pm
@jimbuc
I was wondering when you were going to weigh in on this. Good to see your take.
So, the “coaching connection” between Tomlin and Raheem gives the bucs additional insight and we should grant them deference?
Had to dig pretty deep for that one, didn’t you?
But, do you have any info that they even discussed this matter at all?
Also, I don’t really recall Gruden/Allen ever trading for a young player of Holme’s caliber. Given his age, how can you say it would be a “win now” move? He doesn’t really fit the Gruden template does he?
April 12th, 2010 at 9:21 pm
Eric– another outlet is reporting that Bucs hardly took a look at Holmes due to character concerns. Do you think it is unlikely that Morris and Tomlin talked about Holmes? Do you find that hard to imagine? I don’t.
I start by assuming that the Bucs no more than all of us. Just as I presume you would know more about your profession than me, I presume the Bucs have more knowledge and access.
I think you are right about Gru/Allen on the young player trade. All I meant is that Holmes, in my view, would be more a move to win now then to build a team because his contract is up and with his current problems he probably is only a one year project. Maybe the Bucs would get a steal, but maybe not. Maybe he is just misunderstood, maybe he is a cancer. If he was truly misunderstood, you might think Morris would have more access to that info than most, so I am going to guess he may have bigger issues because the Bucs were so disinterested.
The Bucs want to build a team through the draft and apparently build with more character guys. That has a familiar ring to me and yet so many are unhappy about it. Strange.
April 12th, 2010 at 9:57 pm
Jimbuc
Well i suppose that the team would always have more info than a fan, rendering any criticism inherently unfounded. But you would think Rah and Dom would also have been in the best possible position to evaluate Mr. Clayton, since he actually played for them. Yet, I am sure you agree that the big contract for him was a poor decision.
So, the special insight, in that instance, was not helpful.
I suppose time will tell as to whether another error was made based on how Mr. Holmes performs in NY. IMO, just as a fan and not an expert, he will do very well.
April 12th, 2010 at 10:06 pm
JimBuc, Jimbuc, Jimbuc
Its allllllllllllll about the money brother.
When the bucs traded for WInslow there was a salary floor. That doesn’t exist now. The bucs are no longer forced to spend money.
Now that they arent, they have dropped to the absolute bottom of the league in salary, tied with the Chiefs. 10’s of millions below what would have been the salary floor of 107 million.
AB, Boldin, Marshall, Holmes, all about the money. Clayton coming to camp – all about the money. Virtually no FA activity, all about the money.
Whether is it CBA driven or not, its still about the money!
It is painfully obvious!
April 12th, 2010 at 10:12 pm
Eric — he might do well and certainly Clayton was a mistake. Clayton fooled the current regime as he did the past.
So, if the objective is to be fair, there are two ways to look at the Bucs’ decision to pass Holmes. One is $$ — as you and others suggest. I guess the low payroll supports that idea, but the KW contract kind of undercuts the theory, doesn’t it?
As for Dom and Morris’ evaluation skills it is too early to tell, particularly compared to their predecessors. But, can we agree that their predecessors did not do well? Indeed, that is why they were fired and why the Bucs are where they are right now, correct? They got how many seasons before they were fired?
Morris and Dom may face the same fate. It is to ealry to tell, but as you note, Clayton was a big, big miss. Against that they have a trade up to get Freeman. Looking pretty good so far. A 2nd round pick on KW. Looking pretty good so far. Miller? looking good so far. 7th round pick up of SS? Not bad.
Like I said, maybe too early to tell, but don’t they deserve some credit? If no credit, how about just some time? One transitional season is all they have had. As for the Bucs, they have provided several legitimate football reasons for the payroll. Not saying you or anyone has to buy the excuses, but maybe it would be fair to give them the next two years. By that time they will have had a bunch of picks to sign, no more CBA issue (hopefully) and a bunch of their own guys to re-sign to second contract. If they have not spent $$ by then, well then we should all revolt.
April 12th, 2010 at 10:18 pm
Eric — no FA activity in the entire league (except maybe Bears) and most small market teams cutting salary below the floor. You would have the Bucs sign guys just to sign guys. That is the Gru/Allen method. Made perfect sense to get rid of AB. Marshall is a question of picks (and charcter) and Holmes is pure character if the Bucs would not give up a 5th. Give it a chance. The Bucs are cutting money but so is the league and they don’t operate ina vaccum. How will you explain your salary floor theory when they have to sign a 3rd to a huge contract? They will probably be one of the last teams to have to do so given the likley rookie cap, so if it was all about money they would trade down even with Suh available. If that happens, I join your ranks, but that will not happen.
April 12th, 2010 at 10:39 pm
JimBuc
I give Dom big credit for Winslow and the second for Adams. I hate to think what the bucs would have looked like without Winslow! They might have gone 0-16.
As for giving them a chance, I really don’t have much choice. If I owned the team, Gruden would be hired back the next day. I freely admit I am a “win now” screw the future Chucky fan. Id love to see McNabb and Chucky running out of the tunnel. But, back to reality, the ones that need to give Rah and Dom a chance is the Glazers.
The list of excuses is getting a little long.
IMO AB and now Holmes, are two huge errors that are really going to hurt this team. And I think it is insane that they are going to leave Freeman with the current crop of receivers, plus a rookie or two. That is not giving him much of a chance and will damage his future. But, time will tell.
April 12th, 2010 at 11:05 pm
Eric — you always raise good points. I guess we just have to wait and see.
April 13th, 2010 at 12:19 am
Hey Joe.. Better take your boy on in the afternoon to task. He called everyone idiots who thought the Bucs should give up a 5th rounder for Holmes. His words, not exactly, was that we should get a premium pick with our number 5 pick because the draft is so deep. Apparently dickey doo should be able to throw a dart on his draft board and land starters all the way through.
April 13th, 2010 at 1:01 am
Finerdetailz:
Joe had a text discussion Monday morning about this subject. This post pretty much spells out Joe’s position.
So Joe knew his feelings on the subject long before he went on the air. Joe heard the show and doesn’t recall him calling people idiots for wanting Holmes.
April 13th, 2010 at 1:14 am
I’m promise you he did. I know you don’t know me but I’m not going to just say he said something when in fact he did. It was after he addressed the lightning, the masters, and the Rays. Hopefully u can get tape if the show causing I’m telling you he called ‘everyone’ idiots.
April 13th, 2010 at 1:25 am
Listen to opening monologue at 10:38 where he calls everyone idiots and Dumb. And then again for the record he said again at 12:30. Go have a listen. He called the number 5 pick ‘Golden’.
April 13th, 2010 at 1:52 am
im sure mike tomlin gave rah the inside scoop on this guy plus we saw what having our best defense player sit out four games did for us last year..it would undermine the moves their trying to make to get a guy to tempt tanard into a left handed cigarette…cant fix the entire roster in one year, its gotta be a work in progress..we werent known for dominating defense until ronde, sapp and brooks..ALL DRAFTED BY THE BUCS, LET EM WORK and if they blunder this year then there are no excuses
April 13th, 2010 at 7:33 am
@JimBuc
“Jake: Sileo was lucky to get only a week off. In case you forgot, he defamed them with a grotesque lie …………”
has anyone proved that Sileo lied? If so, he should have been fired! If not, aren’t you doing a little defamation yourself? The way the tight-assed Sons have been there is a good chance that the story was true! Because Clearchannel makes money off the Bucs, so isn’t there a chance that having Joel Glazer pissed off at Sileo outing them maybe scared them into having to do something, all for the money. And I’ll take Gruden/Allen any day over these clowns that are in charge now!
April 13th, 2010 at 8:20 am
I just fail to see where things are so bad with the team right now. Talk about doom and gloom. So they passed on a guy, with 1 yr left on his contract and 4 games of that suspended. Bad employees are like cancer. Their disease can spread like wildfire and infect the entire organization in rather short order. I wish they would have kept Gruden sure, but WTF, it’s done now. Why keep crying over the same stuff. I thought it would be hard to bash the Bucs more that we did during the season, but I think we have reached a new high. Is there really a possibility of screwing up this Draft? I don’t think so. We’re going to have a pretty good team.
Safety: “I hate haters”. great line btw.
Why all the hate for Stroud? The guy’s just doing his job and trying to keep Buc news going for the diehard fans when there really isn’t much. The way some of the comments read lately, you’d think Stroud was responsible for every problem the team has faced. If want to watch real hacks, tune in to CNN.
April 13th, 2010 at 7:42 pm
Tampa2 — I don’t say this lightly: you are an IDIOT. Sileo saids the Glazers lost money with Bernie Madoff. That is false. The Madoff investors were identified. Stupid.