Marshawn Kneeland’s Lack Of Production

April 20th, 2024

Western Michigan DE Marshawn Kneeland.

Joe is starting to get punchy from all this draft nonsense people spew.

Take this Matt Miller of BSPN. He’s trying to sell Bucs fans that Marshawn Kneeland of Western Michigan is the pass-rushing stud the Bucs need and the Bucs should target Kneeland with the No. 26 pick on Thursday night.

Marshawn Kneeland, EDGE, Western Michigan. Every year there is a player who rises into Round 1 based on scheme fit and team need. This year, my bet is on that being Kneeland. The 6-foot-3, 267-pound senior had 36 pressures in 2023 and a very strong pre-draft process at the Senior Bowl and combine. His size, strength and run-defending abilities make him one of the few true 4-3 defensive ends ranked in my top 50 (No. 48). And Kneeland could be a target for teams like Tampa Bay, Buffalo or even San Francisco late in Round 1.

So let Joe get this straight: Even though a guy at a small school didn’t produce — key fact: small school — the Bucs should burn a valuable first-round pick on him because he had a “very strong pre-draft process.”

Knock it off!

What the hell does turning and coughing and being able to respond with slick rehearsed answers in an interview have anything to do with shedding blocks from grown men playing offensive tackle? Stop it. Stop it now!

That’s like saying a high-end law firm ought to hire an accountant based on his/her ability to set picks in a Tuesday night hoops rec league in Tarpon Springs.

Joe’s issue with Kneeland? He had a grand total of 4.5 sacks last year. In the MAC. Facing children who someday will be designing your next car or laptop or doing your taxes.

Look, the Bucs already have pass rusher, José Ramirez, who had 18.5 sacks his last two years in Eastern Michigan, also a MAC school. And Ramirez can’t even get on the Bucs’ 53-man roster.

So the Bucs should burn a first-round pick on a guy from the same conference with far less than half of Ramirez’s sack total? Seriously?

Maybe Joe is a weirdo, but production should count for something — more than pre-draft nonsense like the combine.

60 Responses to “Marshawn Kneeland’s Lack Of Production”

  1. Derek Says:

    Too much mock drafting. Make it end

  2. Boss Says:

    If they are just drafting on size, they may as well go to golds or the ymca or your local bb court…or why not inmates about to be released?

  3. Steven007 Says:

    Clearly this kid is not a first rounder. It’s the usual case of pundits trying to make a call out of left field proving their genius. Totally agree with you, particularly at a small school. If the guy is not producing it’s even more or should I say less impactful than if he’s not producing at an SEC school. And your example with Ramirez is apt. Obviously there are outliers. I remember when. Khalil Mack was picked in the first round. Out of Buffalo. I knew about him from the draft rags but he was highly productive at Buffalo. Less so with sack production. But he was a tfl machine in college and that transferred to the pros along with a great increase in sack production. He’s a unicorn

  4. Joe Says:


    Interesting you bring up Khalil Mack. Joe will never forget an NFL GM told him the following at the combine when Mack was coming out.

    “If Mack falls to me I have a really hard decision on my hands. Everything on the film shows this guy will be a star. All the analytics say ‘Stay away.'”

  5. SB~LV Says:

    “ Now look at them yo-yos, that’s the way you do it
    You play the guitar on the MTV
    That ain’t workin’, that’s the way you do it
    Money for nothin’ and your chicks for free
    Now that ain’t workin’, that’s the way you do it
    Lemme tell ya, them guys ain’t dumb
    Maybe get a blister on your little finger
    Maybe get a blister on your thumb
    We got to install microwave ovens, custom kitchen deliveries
    We got to move these refrigerators, we got to move these color TVs”

    Be sure to watch the Pat McAfee draft show if you’re choking on the over produced, over hyped, melodramatic hardship to success stories spoiling the NFL DRAFT

  6. LouisFriend Says:

    The groaning and moaning about pass rushers not being more productive in college won’t make more of them available to draft.

    The simple truth is there aren’t that many out there. NFL teams have to either – use analytics to project, roll the bones, grab a ouija board, read a Mel Kiper draft article, sacrifice a chicken – whatever stupid thing that might give them a clue about who’s going to hit in the pros.

    Joe, the commenters here, or St Peter at the pearly gates all have about the same odds as nailing a pick for a guy who can gets sacks in the NFL..

    Good luck to everyone, you can find chickens to sarcrifice at your local farmer’s market. You can find Mel Kiper immitating a headless chicken on ESPN.

  7. Scott Says:

    Definitely would not want him in the first. If here there in the second it would be between him, Ellis’s, Braswell possibly

  8. Steven007 Says:

    Joe, that’s interesting what the GM said about Mack. The draft of course is always a crap shoot. If this kid profiled here is interested in maxing out his capabilities, I have no doubt that he’ll be successful. But he could also be that kid drafted out of a small school, overdrafted perhaps, who gets his signing bonus, the most money he’s ever seen in his life, and mails it in, happy with his small lottery winnings. It’s above the neck with so many of these kids.

  9. White Tiger Says:

    Agreed, skeptical of the hype by guys whose job it is to promote fringe talent and present these unknown candidates as viable alternatives.

    They may be, but if they don’t have production, they may NOT be (and likely aren’t).

    I think if you’re marketing to fans, it’s an easy sell… but if you’re being paid to find productive players. That is what Bowles showed when he said production on film would drive their interest at the combine, not the other way round. For that reason, smart talent evaluators aren’t seeing Kneeland in the first round. It’s why there won’t be a difference-maker at EDGE after Turner, Verse, Latu. The rest are developmental.

    Maybe the best course for the Bucs is DT this draft?

  10. Pickgrin Says:

    Kneeland is a good prospect – if he can be had in the late 2nd rd.

    1st rd? No

    Trade up for Latu – The cream of the crop.

  11. Joe Says:

    It’s above the neck with so many of these kids.

    Jason Licht always says this.

  12. Bucs Guy Says:

    If you can’t get one of the big 3 edge rushers in the first, in the 2nd round go for Isaac or Braswell. They have production and potential to increase.

    In the above scenario, go IOL (JPJ, Barton or Frazier) or trade back Possibly WR if there are no trade partners.

  13. Buc1987 Says:

    1st and a 2nd to move up for Verse!

  14. Buc1987 Says:

    Very unLicht like..

  15. Just Saying Says:

    “one of the few true 4-3 defensive ends”

    Don’t we run primarily 3-4

  16. Fred McNeil Says:

    To me it’s like that little old lady in those old Wendy’s commercials: “Where’s the Beef?”

  17. Fred McNeil Says:

    BTW, I’m expecting better things from Ramirez this year.

  18. Buckeyebuckchuck Says:

    Bad year to draft an edge. Past Turner, Verse and Latu it’s thin soup. Just take a monster in the IOL R1 and see if Trice or Cooper is still there R2

  19. D Cone Says:

    Someone is surely using a 1st round pick on a CB from the MAC. Max Crosby played in the MAC. What’s your point again?

  20. Joe Says:

    Someone is surely using a 1st round pick on a CB from the MAC. Max Crosby played in the MAC. What’s your point again?

    Reread the post.

  21. Letsbucinggo Says:

    Most mock drafts have him rated late second to mid third. Definitely not first.

  22. Bucben61 Says:

    For once I gotta agree with Joe….definitely not a 1st rounder and I thought the bucs play a base 3-4 defense and not a 4-3

  23. Fred McNeil Says:

    Bucben61, you are sorta correct. The Bucs actually line up all kinds of unexpected ways a lot of the time. To be honest…they don’t necessarily fall neatly into any well defined defensive genre.

  24. JimBobBuc Says:

    rd 2 edge: Chris Braswell or Adisa Isaac

    Braswell last year: left edge, 8 sacks, 3 FF, 1 INT, 1 blocked kick
    Isaac last year: left edge, 7.5 sacks, 1 FF

    rd 3 edge: Jonah Elliss
    Elliss last year: right edge, 12 sacks, 1 FF

    Note that Elliss really struggled in the run game but was impressive as a rusher.

  25. Fred McNeil Says:

    If nothing else, Bowles is a defensive master mind.

  26. Fred McNeil Says:

    JimBobBuc, excellent suggestions. I love production.

  27. Leopold Stotch Says:

    Joe, Ive mentioned this on the last Kneeland story. He hasow production because of the MAC. One week, he’s rushing the passer with a traditional offense, next week he’s playing against a triple option team or one that predominantly runs.

  28. Hearty Dikerson Says:

    We keep hearing how much the front office loves Watts and Ramirez but that obviously wasn’t reflected in their playing time last year.

    It would’ve been nice if Bowles had played Watts more or had given Ramirez a chance at any playing time, just to get an accurate gauge on how bad we truly need another OLB.

  29. Beeej Says:

    I hope we can grab Audric Estimé with one of our 3’s, doubt he’ll be there for us in the 4th. Dude reminds me of a cross between Alstott and Riggins

  30. Red Skeleton Says:

    I laugh when he states he is a 4-3 perfect fit and then matches him to the 3-4 Bucs. He must have been paid by the agent to fluff up.

  31. Joe Says:

    Red Skeleton:

    (Are you a Shemp Howard fan?)

    He must have been paid by the agent to fluff up.


    Not sure if you saw Belicheat on Pat McAfee last week but Belichick said by far most of the draft chatter prior to the day of the draft comes from agents.

  32. Joe Says:

    We keep hearing how much the front office loves Watts and Ramirez but that obviously wasn’t reflected in their playing time last year.

    Thank you.

    They loved Ramirez so much any team could have plucked him from the practice squad.

  33. Joe Says:

    I hope we can grab Audric Estimé


  34. Joe Says:

    he’s playing against a triple option team

    That’s a very fair point.

    But was there that much of a difference in MAC offenses from 2022 when Ramirez lit up quarterbacks to 2023 when Kneeland didn’t?

  35. Boss Says:

    Bowls a defensive mastermind… LOL

    I needed a laugh.

    Tell that to the lions, tell that to the rams and oh so many more. Y’all still living of D Whites blitzes.

    They figured that out and Todd has had zilch since then. He sucks as a coach, a D coordinator when it’s on the line and as an O coordinator – and yeah, they do what he tells em as evident by the O always looking the same….up the gut muts

  36. Tony Marks Says:

    Beeej Says:
    April 20th, 2024 at 3:55 pm
    I hope we can grab Audric Estimé with one of our 3’s, doubt he’ll be there for us in the 4th.

    Thats right because those of us who actually watch football know – its a running league when the goal lines is 5 yards to go or less and its a running league when you have a one score lead with a few minutes to go and its running league when you want to setup the pass and its running league when your defense is tired and need some extra minutes to gain wind.

  37. Dave Pear Says:

    So hangs Fustafa is the man and he won’t even be drafted. Licht knows

  38. Jeffs grandpa Says:

    The last 2 weeks prior to draft are worst everyone is throwing shizz against the wall to see what sticks

  39. Dave Pear Says:


  40. Bucben61 Says:

    Love your take Tony Marks about a running game

  41. Dave Pear Says:

    Good grief – I actually agree with Boss about Todd’s Bowels. The apocalypse is nigh.

  42. geno711 Says:

    This has been exactly my point.
    There really is not a large group of edge people available.

    At 26, no to Chop, no to Marshawn, no to Darius.

    So, if one of the three slide to us, then ok to one of those three guys.

    My bet is that one of the three will not slide to us and then for the next 12 months, this Joe will be complaining that we don’t have a high impact edge guy.

  43. geno711 Says:

    To be clear, the three that I would draft in this order are:
    1. Dallas Turner
    2. Laiatu Latu
    3. Jared Verse

  44. A Bucs Fan Says:

    Licht has already said that not all needs will be filled through this years draft so we should prepare as a fan base for one position of need not to be addressed the way we think it should be.

  45. Stanglassman Says:

    I don’t think anyone believes he’s a 1st round pick. I’ve seen him go late 2nd or mid 3rd. If people are talking about him going to the Bucs at 26, that’s crazy talk.

  46. Defense Rules Says:

    Joe … ‘Maybe Joe is a weirdo’.

    For some reason that I can’t put my finger on Joe, that’s the only thing that stuck in my head about that whole article.

    Derek hit it on the head with the very first comment … ‘Too much mock drafting. Make it end’. Ditto.

  47. All_da_way Says:

    Bucs run to the podium if Kneeland is there in the 2nd round. Bucs are desperate for an edge rusher with a pulse.

  48. ECBucs Says:

    Production does not factor at ALL when scouting… the only thing that matters is what a kid can be. All of you would have passed on Micah Parsons bc you’re about his “production” when no evaluator actually cares

  49. Dave Pear Says:

    Man, I love me some sauerkraut and knockwurst.

  50. ECBucs Says:

    “Production” and school and division or whatever doesn’t matter to any actual evaluators. All that matters is the tape and athleticism. All of you would have passed on Micah Parsons bc you’re worried about his “production”… it DOES NOT MATTER

  51. Oddball Says:

    So people like Miller actually get paid to make this $h1t up?

    Dude, I am in the wrong business.

  52. Joe in Michigan Says:

    The Bucs already have a big, strong Edge in Yaya Diaby. They probably need to draft a “bendy” guy instead of Kneeland, and I agree that he’s not a 1st Round talent, even if someone reaches for him.

  53. Leopold Stotch Says:

    I could see the saints or Sean Payton trying to be cute and reaching for him in the first.

  54. Gipper Says:

    This would be a foolish reach. Concentrate on OLine. Many good players to be found in draft.

  55. Danati1 Says:

    It might be why we got that extra 3rd rounder..use it to move up n grab a de worth it.

  56. Dave Pear Says:

    I’m reaching for the mushrooms and a bottle of scotch.

  57. Scott Says:

    CBS posted a buyer beware on Kneeland and Keon Coleman

  58. King_Bliss Says:

    Best article you put out yet. What a player does on the field should speak volumes for his draft stock not what a analysts has to save where he gets drafted. It’s evident that analysts get it wrong year after year let them kids show what they can do on film and that be the determination on where they get drafted I hate the pre hype of the combine it only shows how fast and strong an individual is nothing else.

  59. Adam's Angry Says:

    I remember they were saying the same thing about OJ HOWARD. “Oh don’t worry about his low production! He has INTANGIBLES! He has LONG ARMS!” blah blah blah… his most famous catch happened at a Rays game.

  60. jvato24 Says:

    I dont even like him in round 2 … And why do we need a base 4-3 End … Funny but interesting story … know when some of the most accurate mocks get released?? at the end of college football season … then the offseason happens and misguided info comes out and people out think themselves