Marshawn Kneeland’s Lack Of Production
April 20th, 2024
Western Michigan DE Marshawn Kneeland.
Joe is starting to get punchy from all this draft nonsense people spew.
Take this Matt Miller of BSPN. He’s trying to sell Bucs fans that Marshawn Kneeland of Western Michigan is the pass-rushing stud the Bucs need and the Bucs should target Kneeland with the No. 26 pick on Thursday night.
Marshawn Kneeland, EDGE, Western Michigan. Every year there is a player who rises into Round 1 based on scheme fit and team need. This year, my bet is on that being Kneeland. The 6-foot-3, 267-pound senior had 36 pressures in 2023 and a very strong pre-draft process at the Senior Bowl and combine. His size, strength and run-defending abilities make him one of the few true 4-3 defensive ends ranked in my top 50 (No. 48). And Kneeland could be a target for teams like Tampa Bay, Buffalo or even San Francisco late in Round 1.
So let Joe get this straight: Even though a guy at a small school didn’t produce — key fact: small school — the Bucs should burn a valuable first-round pick on him because he had a “very strong pre-draft process.”
Knock it off!
What the hell does turning and coughing and being able to respond with slick rehearsed answers in an interview have anything to do with shedding blocks from grown men playing offensive tackle? Stop it. Stop it now!
That’s like saying a high-end law firm ought to hire an accountant based on his/her ability to set picks in a Tuesday night hoops rec league in Tarpon Springs.
Joe’s issue with Kneeland? He had a grand total of 4.5 sacks last year. In the MAC. Facing children who someday will be designing your next car or laptop or doing your taxes.
Look, the Bucs already have pass rusher, José Ramirez, who had 18.5 sacks his last two years in Eastern Michigan, also a MAC school. And Ramirez can’t even get on the Bucs’ 53-man roster.
So the Bucs should burn a first-round pick on a guy from the same conference with far less than half of Ramirez’s sack total? Seriously?
Maybe Joe is a weirdo, but production should count for something — more than pre-draft nonsense like the combine.
April 20th, 2024 at 11:08 am
Too much mock drafting. Make it end
April 20th, 2024 at 11:16 am
If they are just drafting on size, they may as well go to golds or the ymca or your local bb court…or why not inmates about to be released?
April 20th, 2024 at 11:20 am
Clearly this kid is not a first rounder. It’s the usual case of pundits trying to make a call out of left field proving their genius. Totally agree with you, particularly at a small school. If the guy is not producing it’s even more or should I say less impactful than if he’s not producing at an SEC school. And your example with Ramirez is apt. Obviously there are outliers. I remember when. Khalil Mack was picked in the first round. Out of Buffalo. I knew about him from the draft rags but he was highly productive at Buffalo. Less so with sack production. But he was a tfl machine in college and that transferred to the pros along with a great increase in sack production. He’s a unicorn
April 20th, 2024 at 11:26 am
Steven007:
Interesting you bring up Khalil Mack. Joe will never forget an NFL GM told him the following at the combine when Mack was coming out.
“If Mack falls to me I have a really hard decision on my hands. Everything on the film shows this guy will be a star. All the analytics say ‘Stay away.'”
April 20th, 2024 at 11:32 am
“ Now look at them yo-yos, that’s the way you do it
You play the guitar on the MTV
That ain’t workin’, that’s the way you do it
Money for nothin’ and your chicks for free
Now that ain’t workin’, that’s the way you do it
Lemme tell ya, them guys ain’t dumb
Maybe get a blister on your little finger
Maybe get a blister on your thumb
We got to install microwave ovens, custom kitchen deliveries
We got to move these refrigerators, we got to move these color TVs”
Be sure to watch the Pat McAfee draft show if you’re choking on the over produced, over hyped, melodramatic hardship to success stories spoiling the NFL DRAFT
April 20th, 2024 at 11:36 am
The groaning and moaning about pass rushers not being more productive in college won’t make more of them available to draft.
The simple truth is there aren’t that many out there. NFL teams have to either – use analytics to project, roll the bones, grab a ouija board, read a Mel Kiper draft article, sacrifice a chicken – whatever stupid thing that might give them a clue about who’s going to hit in the pros.
Joe, the commenters here, or St Peter at the pearly gates all have about the same odds as nailing a pick for a guy who can gets sacks in the NFL..
Good luck to everyone, you can find chickens to sarcrifice at your local farmer’s market. You can find Mel Kiper immitating a headless chicken on ESPN.
April 20th, 2024 at 11:36 am
Definitely would not want him in the first. If here there in the second it would be between him, Ellis’s, Braswell possibly
April 20th, 2024 at 11:38 am
Joe, that’s interesting what the GM said about Mack. The draft of course is always a crap shoot. If this kid profiled here is interested in maxing out his capabilities, I have no doubt that he’ll be successful. But he could also be that kid drafted out of a small school, overdrafted perhaps, who gets his signing bonus, the most money he’s ever seen in his life, and mails it in, happy with his small lottery winnings. It’s above the neck with so many of these kids.
April 20th, 2024 at 11:50 am
Agreed, skeptical of the hype by guys whose job it is to promote fringe talent and present these unknown candidates as viable alternatives.
They may be, but if they don’t have production, they may NOT be (and likely aren’t).
I think if you’re marketing to fans, it’s an easy sell… but if you’re being paid to find productive players. That is what Bowles showed when he said production on film would drive their interest at the combine, not the other way round. For that reason, smart talent evaluators aren’t seeing Kneeland in the first round. It’s why there won’t be a difference-maker at EDGE after Turner, Verse, Latu. The rest are developmental.
Maybe the best course for the Bucs is DT this draft?
April 20th, 2024 at 11:59 am
Kneeland is a good prospect – if he can be had in the late 2nd rd.
1st rd? No
Trade up for Latu – The cream of the crop.
April 20th, 2024 at 12:11 pm
Jason Licht always says this.
April 20th, 2024 at 12:22 pm
If you can’t get one of the big 3 edge rushers in the first, in the 2nd round go for Isaac or Braswell. They have production and potential to increase.
In the above scenario, go IOL (JPJ, Barton or Frazier) or trade back Possibly WR if there are no trade partners.
April 20th, 2024 at 12:39 pm
1st and a 2nd to move up for Verse!
April 20th, 2024 at 12:39 pm
Very unLicht like..
April 20th, 2024 at 1:00 pm
“one of the few true 4-3 defensive ends”
Don’t we run primarily 3-4
April 20th, 2024 at 1:21 pm
To me it’s like that little old lady in those old Wendy’s commercials: “Where’s the Beef?”
April 20th, 2024 at 1:23 pm
BTW, I’m expecting better things from Ramirez this year.
April 20th, 2024 at 1:39 pm
Bad year to draft an edge. Past Turner, Verse and Latu it’s thin soup. Just take a monster in the IOL R1 and see if Trice or Cooper is still there R2
April 20th, 2024 at 1:49 pm
Someone is surely using a 1st round pick on a CB from the MAC. Max Crosby played in the MAC. What’s your point again?
April 20th, 2024 at 1:51 pm
Reread the post.
April 20th, 2024 at 2:02 pm
Most mock drafts have him rated late second to mid third. Definitely not first.
April 20th, 2024 at 2:15 pm
For once I gotta agree with Joe….definitely not a 1st rounder and I thought the bucs play a base 3-4 defense and not a 4-3
April 20th, 2024 at 2:34 pm
Bucben61, you are sorta correct. The Bucs actually line up all kinds of unexpected ways a lot of the time. To be honest…they don’t necessarily fall neatly into any well defined defensive genre.
April 20th, 2024 at 2:35 pm
rd 2 edge: Chris Braswell or Adisa Isaac
Braswell last year: left edge, 8 sacks, 3 FF, 1 INT, 1 blocked kick
Isaac last year: left edge, 7.5 sacks, 1 FF
rd 3 edge: Jonah Elliss
Elliss last year: right edge, 12 sacks, 1 FF
Note that Elliss really struggled in the run game but was impressive as a rusher.
April 20th, 2024 at 2:36 pm
If nothing else, Bowles is a defensive master mind.
April 20th, 2024 at 2:39 pm
JimBobBuc, excellent suggestions. I love production.
April 20th, 2024 at 3:10 pm
Joe, Ive mentioned this on the last Kneeland story. He hasow production because of the MAC. One week, he’s rushing the passer with a traditional offense, next week he’s playing against a triple option team or one that predominantly runs.
April 20th, 2024 at 3:38 pm
We keep hearing how much the front office loves Watts and Ramirez but that obviously wasn’t reflected in their playing time last year.
It would’ve been nice if Bowles had played Watts more or had given Ramirez a chance at any playing time, just to get an accurate gauge on how bad we truly need another OLB.
April 20th, 2024 at 3:55 pm
I hope we can grab Audric Estimé with one of our 3’s, doubt he’ll be there for us in the 4th. Dude reminds me of a cross between Alstott and Riggins
April 20th, 2024 at 4:05 pm
I laugh when he states he is a 4-3 perfect fit and then matches him to the 3-4 Bucs. He must have been paid by the agent to fluff up.
April 20th, 2024 at 4:07 pm
Red Skeleton:
(Are you a Shemp Howard fan?)
^^^^^^^^^^^^
This.
Not sure if you saw Belicheat on Pat McAfee last week but Belichick said by far most of the draft chatter prior to the day of the draft comes from agents.
April 20th, 2024 at 4:09 pm
Thank you.
They loved Ramirez so much any team could have plucked him from the practice squad.
April 20th, 2024 at 4:10 pm
🙂
April 20th, 2024 at 4:12 pm
That’s a very fair point.
But was there that much of a difference in MAC offenses from 2022 when Ramirez lit up quarterbacks to 2023 when Kneeland didn’t?
April 20th, 2024 at 4:19 pm
Bowls a defensive mastermind… LOL
I needed a laugh.
Tell that to the lions, tell that to the rams and oh so many more. Y’all still living of D Whites blitzes.
They figured that out and Todd has had zilch since then. He sucks as a coach, a D coordinator when it’s on the line and as an O coordinator – and yeah, they do what he tells em as evident by the O always looking the same….up the gut muts
April 20th, 2024 at 4:41 pm
Beeej Says:
April 20th, 2024 at 3:55 pm
I hope we can grab Audric Estimé with one of our 3’s, doubt he’ll be there for us in the 4th.
—
Thats right because those of us who actually watch football know – its a running league when the goal lines is 5 yards to go or less and its a running league when you have a one score lead with a few minutes to go and its running league when you want to setup the pass and its running league when your defense is tired and need some extra minutes to gain wind.
April 20th, 2024 at 5:31 pm
So hangs Fustafa is the man and he won’t even be drafted. Licht knows
April 20th, 2024 at 5:32 pm
The last 2 weeks prior to draft are worst everyone is throwing shizz against the wall to see what sticks
April 20th, 2024 at 5:32 pm
Sojangus
April 20th, 2024 at 5:40 pm
Love your take Tony Marks about a running game
April 20th, 2024 at 6:00 pm
Good grief – I actually agree with Boss about Todd’s Bowels. The apocalypse is nigh.
April 20th, 2024 at 7:00 pm
This has been exactly my point.
There really is not a large group of edge people available.
At 26, no to Chop, no to Marshawn, no to Darius.
So, if one of the three slide to us, then ok to one of those three guys.
My bet is that one of the three will not slide to us and then for the next 12 months, this Joe will be complaining that we don’t have a high impact edge guy.
April 20th, 2024 at 7:02 pm
To be clear, the three that I would draft in this order are:
1. Dallas Turner
2. Laiatu Latu
3. Jared Verse
April 20th, 2024 at 7:41 pm
Licht has already said that not all needs will be filled through this years draft so we should prepare as a fan base for one position of need not to be addressed the way we think it should be.
April 20th, 2024 at 8:14 pm
I don’t think anyone believes he’s a 1st round pick. I’ve seen him go late 2nd or mid 3rd. If people are talking about him going to the Bucs at 26, that’s crazy talk.
April 20th, 2024 at 8:21 pm
Joe … ‘Maybe Joe is a weirdo’.
For some reason that I can’t put my finger on Joe, that’s the only thing that stuck in my head about that whole article.
Derek hit it on the head with the very first comment … ‘Too much mock drafting. Make it end’. Ditto.
April 20th, 2024 at 8:26 pm
Bucs run to the podium if Kneeland is there in the 2nd round. Bucs are desperate for an edge rusher with a pulse.
April 20th, 2024 at 8:30 pm
Production does not factor at ALL when scouting… the only thing that matters is what a kid can be. All of you would have passed on Micah Parsons bc you’re about his “production” when no evaluator actually cares
April 20th, 2024 at 8:30 pm
Man, I love me some sauerkraut and knockwurst.
April 20th, 2024 at 8:40 pm
“Production” and school and division or whatever doesn’t matter to any actual evaluators. All that matters is the tape and athleticism. All of you would have passed on Micah Parsons bc you’re worried about his “production”… it DOES NOT MATTER
April 20th, 2024 at 9:49 pm
So people like Miller actually get paid to make this $h1t up?
Dude, I am in the wrong business.
April 21st, 2024 at 1:14 am
The Bucs already have a big, strong Edge in Yaya Diaby. They probably need to draft a “bendy” guy instead of Kneeland, and I agree that he’s not a 1st Round talent, even if someone reaches for him.
April 21st, 2024 at 2:59 am
I could see the saints or Sean Payton trying to be cute and reaching for him in the first.
April 21st, 2024 at 9:07 am
This would be a foolish reach. Concentrate on OLine. Many good players to be found in draft.
April 21st, 2024 at 9:56 am
It might be why we got that extra 3rd rounder..use it to move up n grab a de worth it.
April 21st, 2024 at 1:26 pm
I’m reaching for the mushrooms and a bottle of scotch.
April 21st, 2024 at 5:18 pm
CBS posted a buyer beware on Kneeland and Keon Coleman
April 22nd, 2024 at 9:19 am
Best article you put out yet. What a player does on the field should speak volumes for his draft stock not what a analysts has to save where he gets drafted. It’s evident that analysts get it wrong year after year let them kids show what they can do on film and that be the determination on where they get drafted I hate the pre hype of the combine it only shows how fast and strong an individual is nothing else.
April 22nd, 2024 at 10:42 am
I remember they were saying the same thing about OJ HOWARD. “Oh don’t worry about his low production! He has INTANGIBLES! He has LONG ARMS!” blah blah blah… his most famous catch happened at a Rays game.
April 22nd, 2024 at 3:39 pm
I dont even like him in round 2 … And why do we need a base 4-3 End … Funny but interesting story … know when some of the most accurate mocks get released?? at the end of college football season … then the offseason happens and misguided info comes out and people out think themselves