Stuck Between A Rock And A Hard Place

December 23rd, 2023

Can’t be pass happy.

Joe found this very, very frustrating but what can you do about it now?

Joe is convinced one reason why Bucs fans have had such a freakout like the team won the Super Bowl with the win over the Packers was how the Bucs beat the Packers.

Bucs fans had become accustomed over the years to embracing the pass, beginning with Dirk Koetter and then Bucco Bruce Arians. And the Bucs had the weapons to pull it off. It was fun, exciting football and when Tom Brady came to town, that excitement became winning football.

Brady (and Jameis) may be gone, but those weapons remain. This year began a new era, though. And these new Bucs are about establishing the run.

The result, for the most part, left fans beyond frustrated to the point many were heard hollering at games “Quit running the ball!”

Then, against the Packers, the offense blew up even better than it did against Houston. Finally. It reached a level of execution Bucs fans were used and for which fans pined. It demonstrated what the Bucs offense could be and Bucs fans were so stoked they forgot the Bucs were just 7-7 and the Packers had a moldy Swiss cheese defense.

But here lies the double-edged sword. If the Bucs want to go pass-happy, it’s a minefield, as pointed out by Jeremy Fowler of BSPN.

Tampa Bay is 0-4 when Mayfield attempts 35 or more passes this season.

And therein lies the pickle. If Mayfield averages nine (or more) passes a quarter through a game, the Bucs lose. So while the Bucs have all of these weapons, they can’t be used to their maximum ability, it seems. Otherwise, it’s an “L.”

So Bucs offensive coordinator Dave Canales has little choice but to lean on the run.

Talk about a tease, man.

69 Responses to “Stuck Between A Rock And A Hard Place”

  1. BUCS SQUAT Says:

    Don’t you think some of those 38 pass we’re due to the fact that we were behind and needed to score some points fast. Maybe because we tend to run up the middle at least once on every series.

  2. WyomingJoe Says:

    That’s a BS fact by Fowler. Here’s why: I can put together my own misleading fact. For example:

    The Bills have lost 67% of their games when Josh Allen has attempted 40 or more passes in a game this season. Check it out for yourself.

    I can come up with a goofy fact like that for most of the QBs in the league. It means very little, and as I said is misleading.

  3. AtlBuc Says:

    Most of the time he’s thrown 49 passes because we were trying to catch up. But Sunday, he was passing because the offense was aggressive early

  4. WyomingJoe Says:

    Last week, I heard nothing but how the Bucs we’re going to lose against the Packers. But after our offense demolished them, the Packer’s defense was then referred to as moldy Swiss cheese. How Laughable!

    Keep winning Baker.

  5. WyomingJoe Says:

    Here’s another goofy, BS fact that Fowler can use for a future article:

    When Josh Allen throws for over 300 yards, the Bills lose 50% of those games. So I guess that means that Allen shouldn’t throw for 300 yards anymore because it’s a minefield! Facts are often misleading folks.

    Fowler should try harder next time.

  6. Proudbucsfan Says:

    Joe thanks for the buzzkill 🤦🏻‍♂️

  7. Bring back the lawn chairs Says:

    I don’t care if the Bucs have to crawl on their bellies like reptiles, as long as they can eat a W at the end of this game; that’s all that matters. Just how they eat that W makes no difference to this poster, as a W is the goal.

  8. ModHairKen Says:

    I expected a loss against ATL. Then I expected a loss against GB. Instead, they got stronger. The running game is now creating problems for the other team.

    Mayfield has made timely plays. Mauch is apparently getting better to some. A younger WR seems to make a big play every one in a while. The P and K have been outstanding. The Defense has had some solid moments, covering up some serious ineptitude by Dean, Davis and Neal. Devin White’s absence has helped.

    Canales is so grateful to Bowles, he got emotional, and that feeds the team; and he is now making some adjustments.

    So it has intrigued this fan base. I have said since ATL that it is a one game season. But the last three wins now make that untrue:

    2 more wins OR a win against NO or 1 more win and a NO loss to ATL gets the Bucs in the playoffs. So a win against Jax is not mandatory except for momentum purposes.

    A win this week would be huge. The momentum swing would feed confidence.

    Intrigue is much better than indifference. Get this win, men.

  9. Stan says Says:

    If 99% of the QB’s in the league are throwing the football 35 to 45 times a game it’s because they are losing by doubt digits and trying to catch up. Who the hell doesn’t know and understand stand this. Never was a RAIDERS fan but the great (AL Davis) would say JUST WIN BABY. Stop with the stats crap remember for every stat that say you win a certain way there is a stat that say thats the way you loose.

  10. Lakeland Steve Says:

    I have to tell you, Canales getting choked up during his press conference got me choked up. These players and coaches have quite a connection and are playing hard for each other. The vets know what is at stake (possibly a new coaching staff) if things go bad. I don’t care what you thought about Canales before that moment because afterwards I had a different impression. These guys love each other and want each other to succeed. That desire, commitment and love for one another can make a team play above their heads. I’m not betting against the Bucs for the rest of the season. Watching this unfold will be a pleasure to see even if we don’t get us where we want to be. Go Bucs!

  11. SufferingSince76 Says:

    This kind of stat is silly. Just do what it takes to win. If that means throwing the ball all game, so be it.

  12. Defense Rules Says:

    It’s nice to see that many JBFers are becoming more discerning in their use of stats. Yes stats can be misleading if misused, but that’s why ANALYSIS is so important (ie, what are those stats REALLY telling you?).

    For example, the Bucs started off 3-1 this year and many concluded that we were a much better team than most had predicted. In reality we were very healthy, played some meh opponents in those first 4 games, and we caught them at the right time (there was no ‘film’ on our new offense?). But once the injuries started piling up and the competition got harder (and figured out our weaknesses), things changed & we went on a 1-6 losing tear.

    Yet even during that time, our young team held together & kept learning and improving. Growth took time & we’ve still got a long way to go IMO. Not unlike in 2019 when the Bucs went on a 6-out-of-8 losing streak in the middle of the season with our new coaching staff before righting the ship somewhat and winning 4 in a row. Same in 2020 when we lost 3-out-of-4 in the middle of the season before going on 4-game win streak then winning 4 more in the playoffs.

    It’s easy to jump to the wrong conclusions. The same Baker Mayfield who threw for 4 TDs, 0 INTs & 78.6% completion rate in a win against the Packers also threw for 2 TDs, 0 INTs & 48.3% in our win against the Falcons and for 1 TD, 1 INT & 48.3% in our win against the Panthers. He threw for MORE passing yards & TDs in the Packers’ game than he did in the Falcons & Panthers games COMBINED.

    Although all 3 games were wins, Baker’s performances were quite different. More importantly though, the performances of those players AROUND Baker & those COACHING Baker were quite different also. Let’s all hope that it’s last Sunday’s TEAM that shows up tomorrow when we play the Jaguars.

  13. BillyBucco Says:

    Wyoming Joe
    Yes you can find a stat for anything but you stretched the numbers AND
    it is 100% losses for Mayfield at 35.
    I don’t see this as a bad stat however.
    Balanced teams win. Period.
    I love the fact Canales was so hard headed about running the ball, because now is when they reap the benefits from it.
    I think White goes over a 100 this week rushing against a good run defense.
    They will try to stop the pass because Baker is coming off his best game.
    Plus almost any QB trends towards losing the more they put the ball in the air.
    If you are blowing out a team you run the clock out. Unless you are Miami.
    No stats about the Bucs currently scare me, because the eye teat tells me they are playing good football in December.
    Mark this down as another win 34-17

  14. 941Boltsfan Says:

    Yep it’s a necessary evil when it’s not working, running the ball and having balance not only keeps the playback wider but it allows the defense to not be on the field after a quick 3 pass and out.

  15. westernbuc Says:

    No QB has a good record when they have a lot of pass attempts because they are almost always playing from behind

  16. garro Says:

    We gotta hope that we can jump out to leads and that Canales can continue to call good games. Oh and Baker continues to play out of his mind.

    Not much to ask for is it?

    Go Bucs!

  17. Hodad Says:

    We beat the Packers throwing, but we finished them running. Joe says the Bucs should just throw the ball, but he never puts a number with his expert opinion on how many attempts that should be? He never puts a number on rushing attempis either, surely you can’t throw the ball every down? Is that what you want the Bucs to do Joe, throw every down? Love to see Joe’s came plan.

  18. garro Says:

    BTW Joe,
    2002 Bucs offense was not the most exciting thing to watch but we did have moments with the A-train, Jurevicious, McCardell, and Brad Johnson. And Meshaun before he lost his mind.

    But what the O lacked in highlight reel plays the D made up for.

    Go Bucs!

  19. DungyDance Says:

    The Bucs are also 0-4 in games where my cat used the litter box during the game. Another meaningful stat.

  20. Tony marks Says:

    “And therein lies the pickle. If Mayfield averages nine (or more) passes a quarter through a game, the Bucs lose. So while the Bucs have all of these weapons in the pass game, they can’t be used (too much).”

    Both you and Fowler ignore the well known rule of logic – Correlation does not equal causation.

    the weird thing about your logiic here is that you ( or another joe) have been reporting all season long Canales has always been committed to running the ball and having a balanced attack.

    So question is – Is it the higher amount of passes that causes the loss or is it that we were already setting up a loss by doing what we couldn.t do? Running. We basically have gone to more passing when the run game has flopped . That alone tells the defense what we have to do

    The whole anlsysis is off as to causation. We kind of fall back to passing when already against the ropes from trying to be balanced. IF we ever did come out throwing and then when we reached 38 and we were losing that woudl be fine but thats not what has happened in any game.

  21. DoooshLaRue Says:

    Excellent post MHK.

  22. BucsFan Says:

    Good teams like SF and Bmore have a good balance of run and throw which is what Bucs should aspire to.

  23. Bbro Says:

    We’re showing promising life with the run game so go with the winning stats and run the ball too. Our running backs are showing positive life. It’ll be a tough game for our Dbacks so we have to put some pressure on the hippy qb 😉lol

  24. realistic-optimistic Says:

    Tampa Bay is 0-4 when Mayfield attempts 35 or more passes this season.

    Joe, I posted that stat a month ago. Expand beyond his time with the Bucs and the trend is also terrible. He’s 6-24 all time when attempting 35+ passes. 1-12 when attempting 40+.

    @DR, of course you can use stats to spin any tale you want, but those stats are not spinning anything.

  25. Bucfan Says:

    Set up the run with the PASS! Winning formula.

  26. MJD Says:

    Baker has never been a prototypical passing quarterback. He’s a small runaround quarterback who makes a play now and then. So it makes sense the more he passes, the more he loses.

  27. Buckeyebuckchuck Says:

    The only stat that means anything is they are on a winning streak. And im glad to see them able to run the ball, helps a lot in the ref zone

  28. PSL Bob Says:

    Some of this dichotomy lies in Mayfield’s accuracy. Last week he was on fire. His passes were laser focused. If he could do that consistently, we wouldn’t have to rely so much on the run game, which we’re not very good at.

  29. Glass Half Full Guy Says:

    There are an average of 69 offensive snaps per game (somewhere Gronk is giggling….69! Hehehe).

    So a perfectly “balanced attack” is about 35 passes and 35 runs. Whatever. Do what works.

    If the running game only nets us 2 ypc we aren’t going to win if we run more than we pass. Three straight runs give us 6 yards then we need to convert on 3rd and 4, which would be a pass so 1 pass to 3 runs. Sounds good on paper but….

    It’s impossible to sustain many drives like that. “The best way to convert on 3rd down is to convert on 2nd down”.

    It eats too much clock, thus limiting number of possessions per game.

    Like otherssaid, you fall behind, especially by more than one score, you need to pass more to cath up (again, it’s about beating the clock).

    You call plays that work, run or pass. Situational football.

    Should Canales stop calling all passing plays from the mid-3rd quarter on because Baker attempted 34 passes by then and this “stat” says we lose if he throws one more time the rest of the game? Goofy.

    The Bills won last week with Josh Allen throwing less than 20 times and it wasn’t even a close game. Their running game was firing on all cylinders so they kept doing what worked and I’m sure if it had stopped working they would have gone back to passing. Duh. I’d also bet that their game plan wasn’t to take the ball out of Allen’s hands but they adjusted on the fly.

  30. TF Says:

    Umm that stat doesn’t mean squat unless put into context which it wasn’t. If your are throwing over 25 times you are way behind and likely to lose. Yes there are a couple teams that would be an exception but Very few. Dont like the take. Its Just fodder.

  31. TF Says:

    Correction: Over “35” times

  32. Baking with Canales Says:

    Let’s keep growing.
    You got to love the progress with the offense. Canales said it would take sometime for the o-line to learn the blocking scheme. Plus Cody needed some time to get NFL strength in his body to be able to properly use his techniques.
    3 more wins will be awesome.

  33. Cobraboy Says:

    That stat is misleading.

    Every team throws a lot more when they are behind more than one score.

    0-4 when over 35+ passes? How about 35+ passes when the team is behind? Same stat, different perspective.

  34. Beeej Says:

    As others have said, we normally only throw that much out of desperation. Last week, we’d have had a lot more pass vs run off we weren’t trying to run the clock out. As Canales said, we took what they gave us

  35. Statguy Says:

    They aren’t losing because of the number of pass attempts. They are attempting those passes when they are already losing..

  36. Buccaneer Bonzai Says:

    Jeremy Fowler just happened to say one more pass than Mayfield threw last game. Figures.

    But, let me just say this: The team has been struggling all season, including Mayfield. We already knew this. Fowler really is rewording something that has been obvious.

    What I saw last week was a monumental improvement across the board. The entire team played better.

    I’m the guy that harped on things all season. I expected struggles from the start, and I did not see enough improvements. Until Green Bay.

    Now sure…it could be a one game performance and never happen again.

    But, to me it didn’t feel like it. To me it felt like the switch was finally flipped, like each unit on offense and defense finally gelled. And I’ve been encouraged by the news that the team is healthy again.

    Tomorrow is a playoff game. Tomorrow…we see if this team is capable of beating a winning team…and of winning in the playoffs.

    I believe the Jags game is the most important game of this season.

  37. Buccaneer Bonzai Says:

    As to Dave Canales, I think it’s possible Todd Bowles did not trust a rookie OC and so he insisted on a run first offense most of the season.

    It’s possible that Bowles was feeling the hot seat and set Canales free at last…and Canales is just grateful to finally be trusted and it paid off.

  38. UKBuccaneer is being moderated… Says:

    The bucs are 3-0 in Thursday night games when I wear my slippers and drink cocoa at halftime.

    Not all stats are stats

  39. Mark hardt Says:

    I agree with Wyoming Joe stats can be misleading and more importantly lead to bad decisions. Look at the Browns saddled with a terrible Watson contract because of one statistical year by Depervert. Looking at that year the Texans were 4-12 which is not good and Watson was an NFL leader in stats taken and yards lost. Given Deperverts low morality my take is he manipulated the stats by not throwing the ball away and thus hurting his complete %. Humans have the gift of intuition and big picture thinking which as of now AI does not. Use the advantage. I look at stats long enough until my intuition tells me what to do than stop.

    As for the rest just enjoy the moment and live game by game. The people fretting about who the QB is next year or getting blown out by the Eagles or Cow Girls In the first round are wasting their brain power. As Baker says anything can happen. Thanks to Pete Rozelle this is a parity or parody for the cynical league. Bucs could have beaten the Bills at the buzzer if Godwin had just looked 2 seconds earlier. The Bills just blew out the Cow Pokes.

  40. Gville Buc Says:

    Stats: W / L

  41. Cobraboy Says:

    Bonzai may be onto something: seems that the hotter Bowles seat got, the more Canales unleashed.

  42. realistic-optimistic Says:

    For those saying this stat is misleading. Here’s a career comparison against other competent QBs when attempting 35+ passes.

    Baker Mayfield: 6-24 (0.200)
    Josh Allen: 26-21 (0.553)
    Patrick Mahomes: 49-17 (0.742)
    Joe Burrow: 17-14-1 (0.531)
    Lamar Jackson: 7-4 (0.636)

    Jackson isn’t even known for his high passing volume, yet he’s still miles better than Mayfield. You don’t put up a 0.200 win percentage in that category by mistake. It’s not misleading. He does not stack up well with other decent QBs.

    He’s the Bucs QB so I root for him, but he has a lot of work to do before we talk about a full career revival.

  43. Cobraboy Says:

    @casual realistic: now do the same “study” behind by 9+ points.

  44. Beeej Says:

    Why do you Traskers (assuming it’s more than one guy) constantly reach back several seasons in a desperate attempt to prove your point? Different team, different players, different scheme, there’s little to zero relevance

  45. Since76 Says:

    The reason we lose when Mayfield has to throw is he is not good enough on most Sundays. It is what it is. I hope he is as good as he was last week every Sunday from here on out. However his entire career suggests that’s not going to happen. The team around him has to pull him along in most games. Mayfield can’t lift other players performance most games. Want proof see this seasons results then argue.

  46. ChiBuc Says:

    Judging by the lengthy replies, y ‘all seem triggered by the use of this stat.

    The true gem in this post is…”And therein lies the pickle.” It’s not the amount of truth in the lying pickle, but how you use it.

  47. gotbbucs Says:

    Circumstantially misleading stat. All depends what happened in quarters 1 thru 3.

  48. maccafan Says:

    “He’s the Bucs QB so I root for him, but he has a lot of work to do before we talk about a full career revival.”

    The “talking heads” on ESPN and FS1 were saying before the year that Baker might net even win the starting job over Trask. Guys like Chris Broussard of FS1 said Baker would be replaced as starter after 8 games. At this time, Baker has completed over 63% of his passes for 3315 yards. He has 24 TD passes and 8 INT. For those of you keeping score at home, this year Mahomes has 25 TD passes and 13 INT’s. Baker has proved this year that he is middle of the road starting QB which is not bad, nobody ever predicted he was going to be the next Tom brady.

  49. geno711 Says:

    Weird argument realistic-optimistic.

    You did not pick out alleged “competent” quarterbacks. You picked out elite quarterbacks. How was that realistic of you.

    No Jalen Hurts, Dak Prescott, David Carr, Justin Herbert, Kyle Murray, DeShaun Watson.

    No Matt Stafford who went 12 and 23 in his first 4 seasons as a Lion when he started his career of 35 attempts or more.

    I would say that Stafford had a career revival.

    You did not pick out “decent” quarterbacks. You picked out 4 of the 6 most successful winning teams in the last 4 seasons.

  50. Jerseybuc Says:

    It’s not that they lose when pass too much.
    It’s that they lose cause they don’t control the clock, win time is possession and run the ball. Most importantly it is they win when they convert 3rd downs.

  51. Since76 Says:

    Baker has better weapons than most other QBs. We forget that this team is locked and loaded to pass the ball. We just don’t. Some of that is Bowles and canales wanting to beat the wall with their head over and over on the run game.

  52. realistic-optimistic Says:

    @Cobra, you do that study. I am constantly doing my homework and posting stats here. Put in the same work before complaining.

  53. Bucswin Says:

    What about actual completed passes instead of attempts?

  54. realistic-optimistic Says:

    Beeej says:

    “Why do you Traskers (assuming it’s more than one guy) constantly reach back several seasons in a desperate attempt to prove your point?”

    Dude, that makes Mayfield look even worse. He’s 0-4 this season. WTF are you saying? Pay attention.

    Cobraboy says:

    “@casual realistic”

    So the person doing research is the casual, but the person lashing out at facts is not? Got it. All I did was point the light at the situation. The numbers are not skewed. The reason I posted the same stat for multiple QBs is to demonstrate that the situation doesn’t really matter. All those QBs had to deal with deficits too, yet they all managed to post winning records.

    And for the “Baker walked onto a terrible Browns team” crowd. So did Allen. So did Burrow. Talk about denying reality to prove your narrative.

  55. Beeej Says:

    I’ll say aGAIN. WHAT relevance is his time with the Browns?

  56. realistic-optimistic Says:

    It’s like talking to a wall. I already said, and Joe already said, and Jeremy Fowler already said, Mayfield is 0-4 this season (not with the Browns) when attempting 35+ passes.

    But since you insist on keeping your eyes and ears covered, I’ll break it down further. In Baker’s 4 losses this season when attempting 35+ passes (DET, ATL, BUF, SF), here were the halftime scores:

    DET 10 – TB 3
    ATL 10 – TB 10
    BUF 17 – TB 10
    SF 13 – TB 7

    The Bucs were not being routed in any of those games. Here is what Baker and the offense produced in the 2nd half of those games:

    Against DET: TB had 4 drives, resulting in 2 punts, 1 FG, 1 ToD
    Against ATL: TB had 5 drives, resulting in 2 punts, 1 fumble, 1 INT, 1 FG
    Against BUF: TB had 5 drives, resulting in 3 punts, 1 TD, EoG
    Against SF: TB had 6 drives, resulting in 2 punts, 2 ToD, 1 INT, 1 TD

    Stop avoiding reality. All of those games were within 1 score at halftime, and in every one, Baker failed to carry the team to victory in the second half. Every one of those second-half turnovers were on him. SF and BUF dropped several other potential INTs too. Go ahead and say WRs dropped passes. As an exercise, we can go back and give him credit for all the dropped TDs and dropped INTs. You won’t like the results. I think you’d rather keep his stats just as they sit now. They’re much more generous for him.

    It’s fine to cheer for him, but don’t lie about his results.

  57. MJD Says:

    realistic-optimistic Says:
    “Here’s a career comparison against other competent QBs when attempting 35+ passes.

    Baker Mayfield: 6-24 (0.200)
    Josh Allen: 26-21 (0.553)
    Patrick Mahomes: 49-17 (0.742)
    Joe Burrow: 17-14-1 (0.531)
    Lamar Jackson: 7-4 (0.636)”

    As I said above, he’s not a passer first. He’s a runaround quarterback with an above average inaccurate arm.

  58. Cobraboy Says:

    Yes, realistic, Rage Googling does escape you from “casual.”

    BakerHate reigns supreme.

  59. Bucs96NYC Says:

    This a lazy stat. What exactly were the conditions of the game. Were down already by 2 scores & to throw excessively? I mean they were gonna lose @ that point regardless. So before I can even have a conclusion we have to know what occurred during those 4 games…

    He threw 35 attempts in Houston? ARE WE GONNA SAY THAT’S WHY WE LOST LOL? Or was it Bowles horrible defensive gameplan @ the end.

  60. Gipper Says:

    Baker haters you won’t like this but reprinted below is a story yesterday from CBS called: “The Top Free Agent Signings of 2023”

    This is not surprising to those of us who have been saying what a terrific job Baker has done. Confirms what Bowles, Evans, Wirfs and Canales have been saying. RodMunch, David, BelleGlade read it and take it all in:

    Of all the quarterback moves this offseason, Mayfield turned out to be the best offseason signing that made an immediate impact. Pairing Mayfield with offensive coordinator Dave Canales has paid massive dividends, as Mayfield has completed 63.5% of his passes for 3,315 yards with 24 touchdowns to just eight interceptions and a 94.7 passer rating.

    Mayfield is putting up similar numbers to the 2020 version that led the Cleveland Browns to a playoff victory (62.8%, 3,563 yards, 26 TD, 8 INT, 95.9 rating), which is all the Buccaneers asked him to do in an offense with Mike Evans and Chris Godwin as his top pass catchers.

    The Buccaneers are leading the NFC South because Mayfield has given them above-average quarterback play. Mayfield is eighth in touchdown rate (5.2%), 10th in interception rate (1.7%), and ninth in quarterback rating (94.7%). Not bad for the 37th highest-paid quarterback this year.

  61. Oz Says:

    As a guy named Deming once said, “There is a statistical correlation between tall men and long trouser inseams, but long inseams do not cause tall men.”

    As several have mentioned you tend to throw a lot when you are behind. You also tend to lose a lot when you are behind. You tend to get behind a lot when you run up the middle without success a lot. We seem to have player reasonably well suited to the run up the gut, but his name is not White.

    The Canman called a good game against the Pack. He seemed to be getting what the players strengths are. And the TEAM played well. These things take time but we seem to be getting there. Let’s go beat dem Cats!

  62. D Cone Says:

    Mayfield passer rating can be as high as 158.3 and as low as 16.8 based on his career. Canales’s Offense makes it easier to be closer to the upper RTG than the lower although a few times he’s has.
    OC has been alright for his first run being 7-7 with 3 to go. Hard to believe that the Bucs could possibly have to go to Carolina for a must win to make the playoff but it is.
    Last 3 games don’t look any less winnable than the Panthers, Falcons, and Packers were.
    If winning the South is considered success then the Bucs are tearing it up.

  63. Gipper Says:


    In the NFL you don’t get to pick your schedule. You play the hand dealt. Tampa should not have lost Houston game in last 45 seconds. Also, should have won first Atlanta game. Know the Baler haters try to hang those losses on him but it just isn’t true.

  64. Formerbrownsfan Says:

    No one considers the organization that drafted Baker. What crap show!! Y’all do know how bad that organization is and was when he was drafted.
    The QBs mentioned like Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson, and Patrick Mahomes were all drafted y teams that were already playoff teams the seasons before being drafted. Poor Baker got drafted by the most dysfunctional team in the league. He also got that organization their first playoff win in 26 seasons.

  65. Tony marks Says:


    Perhaps I was too diplomatic ealier

    The analysis of the stat is BEYOND silly. THINK! Consider this statment

    WE Lose whenever Quarterback WHOEVER throws hail Maries


    Of course we do because you throw hail mary’s only when you are already losing

    Its the EXACT same situation with the Bucs and throwing. We only go pass heavy when we are in danger of losing

    Its not rocket sicence people. Some of the peope here in comments are just trying to be silly so they can attach their Baker hate to this stat.

  66. Tony marks Says:

    realistic-optimistic Says:
    December 23rd, 2023 at 11:50 am

    Stop avoiding reality. All of those games were within 1 score at halftime


    LOL another dumb analysis to save the former dumb analyis

    Theres nothing magical about half times. It simply means that the time for the first half is over. Comprende now? Welcome the the MFL and football basics

    You can be down in 30 second ANY TIME in th second half. IF your run game is weak and you are down all the defense has to do is key in on the passing attack . Does tht reducte the possibility of winning or the pasing game working

    How can anyone watch the NFL for a year or two and not understand that third down and 20 is less likely to be successful. Its th SAME thing . The defence KNOWS you are going to throw because you have to.

    Some of you are so daft but in this case I have to give Joe part of the demerit. He started this with the faulty correlation equals causation article.

  67. DavidBigBucsFan99 Says:

    2023 stats % yds td int qbr
    Dec 17@Packers 78.6 381 4 0 158.3
    Dec 10@Falcons 48.3 144 2 0 86.0
    Dec 3 vsPanthers 48.3 202 1 1 68.5
    Nov 26@Colts 66.7 192 2 1 93.6
    Nov 19@49ers 64.4 246 1 1 76.7
    Nov 12vsTitans 62.1 278 2 1 102.4
    Nov 5@Texans 70.0 265 2 0 119.4
    Oct 26@Bills 59.5 237 2 0 91.1
    Oct 22vsFalcons 64.3 275 1 1 81.0
    Oct15vsLions 51.4 206 0 1 56.8
    Oct 1@Saints 78.1 246 3 1 116.9
    Sep 25vsEagles 60 146. 1 1 73.1
    Sep 17vsBears 76.5 317 1 0 114.5
    Sep 10@Vikings 61.8 173 2 0 94.4
    Regular Season
    63.5 3,355 24 8 94.7
    Skewer that stat all you want the proof is in the pudding with Baker, he’s not a bad qb. He’s played more mediocre than great or bad and definitely wasn’t why we lost a few games. The Green Bay game was the blueprint for what suits Mayfield best and if Canales is smart will craft it like this going forward. He was confident at the snap unlike a lot of his games.

  68. realistic-optimistic Says:

    geno711 Says:
    December 23rd, 2023 at 10:14 am

    Weird argument realistic-optimistic.

    You did not pick out alleged “competent” quarterbacks. You picked out elite quarterbacks. How was that realistic of you.

    No Jalen Hurts, Dak Prescott, David Carr, Justin Herbert, Kyle Murray, DeShaun Watson.

    You’re probably not checking this thread anymore, but I did the research for you. We disagree about the phrase “competent QBs,” if you include Kyler Murray and Deshaun Watson. Your criticism is fair that I chose upper crust QBs, but including your list only confirms my point. Here’s a career comparison of the QBs you listed when attempting 35+ passes.

    Baker Mayfield: 6-24 (0.200)
    Jalen Hurts: 11-6 (0.647)
    Dak Prescott: 23-25 (0.479)
    Derek Carr: 29-45 (0.392)
    Justin Herbert: 19-23 (0.452)
    Kyler Murray: 10-19-1 (0.333)
    Deshaun Watson: 7-11 (0.389)
    Matthew Stafford: 52-72-1 (0.416)

    All of them have better numbers than Mayfield, by pretty healthy margins.

    BTW, nice try with the Stafford take. Very few people were questioning his ability in DET. He had a couple injuries very early in his career, but people generally viewed him as a top QB on a bad team. He didn’t have a “career revival” in LA, he just had a talented team around him for once.

    Anyway, Happy Holidays. Go Bucs!

  69. DavidBigBucsFan99 Says:

    You win some you lose more with Baker Mayfield his career stats don’t lie but is the big loser in this all because his lover boys like Tonya Mark’s came and they are a sad lot. They get very defensive and caddy for him if anything even remotely negative is printed about him. They have a conspiracy theory there’s a Trask cult out there when they’re actually the occult, attaching themselves below his belt defending his honor when he’s not that great of a qb. Not even Buccaneers fans is the worse part about it.