Do Baker Mayfield’s Passing Targets Demonstrate A Flaw In Offense

December 6th, 2023

Passing chart.

This isn’t meant to rag on Baker Mayfield. Rather, Joe is wondering if a pattern demonstrates why the Bucs offense struggles to score points.

Eyeballing the NextGen Stats charts of Mayfield’s attempts and targets, he throws a lot of short passes. Sometimes, the chart tilts to the right.

Mayfield doesn’t often launch balls. He ranks tied for 10th in the NFL in throws traveling 30 or more yards in the air, but it’s not a major focal point of the offense. Mayfield is tied for 9th in passes of 20-plus yards.

And is that a problem?

The Bucs, through 12 games, apparently haven’t figured out they cannot run the ball, averaging 3.5 yards a carry, worst in the NFL.

But Joe knows and you know the Bucs will try to pound the ball between the tackles Sunday in Atlanta because they’ll finally get it right around Christmas.

This is just idiocy not matter how much Joe likes Bucs coaches personally. It would be one thing if the Bucs were one of the best running teams in the league or even had a winning record.

What’s the definition of insanity? Doing the same thing over and over and thinking things will change. It’s not like the Bucs can’t flip to a pass-oriented offense. It’s four weeks from 2024, after all.

Bucs running back Rachaad White only sees eight-or-more-men boxes some 14 percent of the time, down significantly from last season. So it’s not like teams are cramming defenders close to the line.

Is part of the reason White struggles running because Bucs offensive coordinator Dave Canales doesn’t spread defenders out enough?

Joe isn’t sure there is an answer here, only curious if all the short passes have a negative influence on the run game.

72 Responses to “Do Baker Mayfield’s Passing Targets Demonstrate A Flaw In Offense”

  1. Beeej Says:

    Mayfield is doing exactly what he’s told to, which I’m guessing comes from TB

  2. A Bucs Fan Says:

    Todd Bowles is the killer of his own offense. It’s like the Bucs are playing against two defenses every Sunday including their own coach.

  3. Beeej Says:

    Unrelated: aNOTHER Bowles decision, dump Logan Ryan (PFF 74 last year) for Ryan Neal (pff 49)–he’s been on the couch all year, just got picked up by the Niners

  4. realistic-optimistic Says:

    Soon NextGen Stats and AI will be able to tell us who the primary target was on a given play, and if they were covered.

  5. Ed Says:

    Offense is slow and boring. Very little up-tempo, slot receiver plays and slant plays and crossing routes, not seeing them. It is a bad offense, even with some good players, you still can’t score points.

    If you are only getting 3.5 yards per run, then why are you wasting plays in the first half by running on first down and coming up with 2. If the Bucs are averaging 3.5 yards per rush, my guess is that on first down its 2 or less. Defense knows Bucs don’t adjust and throw downfield where guys are open.

    Mayfield looks confused as to where to go with the ball and under pressure he is looking to escape instead of moving to a different spot to find a target.

    12 games in, seen enough of a very bad offense. It does come down to the lack of play design more than execution. Good systems work. Niners have an all pro 6th round draft pick running a great system. Bengals plugged in a second stringer and put up over 30 on Jacksonville. Its the system stupid! You have to have a plan that achieves success. Short season, can’t mess around experimenting to “try” and find a run game that is a failure. Its a terrible look to viewers and fans and even announcers bring it to light every week on network.

  6. Beeej Says:

    One thing I noticed Sunday, (when we’d typically make our first pass of a given series on third down) Never saw a SINGLE play action, and most of the passes were out of an empty backfield after the RB had motioned into the slot, so ZERO things to ponder on the defensive side. WHY, when it’s conceivable we might run on a given play, wouldn’t we try to freeze them for a moment?

  7. Buc4evr Says:

    Having Todd Bowles at head coach is like giving the other team a 10 point lead at the start of each game. Seriously, put Godwin in the slot and run the WC to take the pressure off of Mayfield. Then open up the middle with the TEs. Throw in some screens to the RB, roll outs and reverses, and deep rotes to Evan’s and Palmer.

  8. Jeff Says:

    Clueless Todd strikes again!

  9. Bucnjim Says:

    Not sticking up for some of Mayfield’s play, but I don’t think it’s his offensive Philosophy, weekly game plan, or his call coming in from the sideline. I’m not even sure how much room he has to change the play at the line of scrimmage. I do know one thing Mayfield surely isn’t calling run plays up the middle.

  10. Dan the Bucs fan Says:

    It is easy to understand we can’t run the ball and we don’t have any speed at wr. Palmer struggles to catch so really you got one wr who is hurt can’t get any separation. The only reliable target has never been fast but if you throw it up to him pretty good chance he will come down with it. So you only have three chances at a big play. White catching it in backfield making somebody miss, throwing it up to Evans or Baker scrambling.

    There just isn’t enough talent on the field right now. However run game is slowly getting better we finally put our only pass rusher into a starting postion. We very well could start playing our best football here in December.

  11. Buckeyebuckchuck Says:

    Looks like its built to be a ball control offense even when they pass. Hard to say if thats by design or if the D is taking away intermediate middle. I do know most of White’s run come against a light box, which seems to suggest the defenders are dropping and that area of the field is too well defended

  12. NE Fan Says:

    I get Bowles tried to force this last season and was unsuccessful but to continue through this season and not see it’s not working is confirming Joe’s statement, this man is insane. What GM or owner allows their HC to continue to repeat a pattern that obviously has and is costing them games and more important revenue? Even Kraft is putting his foot down on Belichick. If this team doesn’t separate themselves from this guy the Bucs will be once again the laughing stock of the league.

  13. Bring back the lawn chairs Says:

    Mayfield has stats of 18 tds. 8 ints. This year..
    Old school nfl thinking is a good running game helps a good passing game. Thats called a Balanced attack.
    So if mayfield is 18 tds. And 8 int. This year with a bad running game. You know the worst running game in the nfl., how good do you think he would be with a good running game? That’s why Brady wanted fournette so badly. Brady understood this most basic principle.
    So what do the Bucs do knowing this? Cause they won a Super Bowl with this formula.
    They dont sign fournette.
    So clearly part of the problem stems from organizational misgivings. Not all running backs were created equal.
    Tell it to da boss.
    Evans clearly knows this, and what would you do if you are Mike Evans on a contract year?

  14. BucU Says:

    It all comes back to coaching and philosophy. And Bowles is terrible at both.
    Feel free to fire him after Atlanta beats us down on Sunday. What an absolute embarrassment this organization is.

  15. Bring back the lawn chairs Says:

    And now Houston which has a really good rookie QB, that just lost its phenomenal rookie wideout tank dell to a broken leg. Which happens to be mike evans home town….
    On Mike evans contract year…
    Well, I’ll leave it the Einsteins to fill in that blank, cause we may have much bigger fish to fry than just a bad running game. Godwin with a bad neck, a cornerback less defense, and a good QB that may also wanna play elsewhere too. Just sayin.

  16. Alanbucsfan Says:

    I’m pretty sure Mayfield isn’t being told to throw off his back foot instead of stepping into passes and then the resulting floater pass becomes an interception instead of a TD if he stepped into the throw.
    The Bucs installing more motion and shifting pre-snap will help the running game.
    Canales is learning, but the offense is improving-and White is becoming an excellent RB. The Bucs just need another quality back to compliment him

  17. Nprbuc Says:

    TB needs to go before you will see real improvement on both sides of the ball.

  18. Steven007 Says:

    This ” definition of insanity” trope has really passed its shelf life. What Joe and others describe as the “definition of insanity” isn’t insane, it’s simply stupid. Insanity is quite obviously not doing something over and over and expecting a different result. That’s simply stupid, idiotic, whatever, but it’s not ” insane!”. Anyway, needed to get that off my chest. Every time I read it I roll my eyes.

  19. Jack Clark Says:

    “Is part of the reason White struggles running because Bucs offensive coordinator Dave Canales doesn’t spread defenders out enough?”

    Pretty sure White is struggling because our run blocking is trash and gets no push, we have the worst run block win rate percentage in the NFL according to ESPN. And Dave Canales is not calling enough of a variety of running plays outside the tackles and between the tackles to keep the defense guessing where we’re going to run the ball to. Our most successful run plays are outside the tackles, but most of our run plays are up the middle to no where because Dave Canales is no better than super bowl winning offensive coordinator Byron Leftwich.

  20. Conte Piscatelli Says:

    What I don’t see in the chart is many throws to the middle, between the hashes and perhaps it’s because Baker is short and doesn’t see the middle well. Also the tilt of short throws to the right makes sense, most of the times backs are going to chip to help Goedeke and we’re going to trust Wirfs to handle his own

  21. Bobby M. Says:

    Agree with Buc Fan…..common denominator is Bowles.

  22. dmatt Says:

    So glad when the season is over. Mayfield is toxic for this team. He’s arrogant, and is standoffish with teammates. I sense turmoil in the locker room, n ultimately, Bowles is the culprit.

  23. NE Fan Says:

    Steven007@ relax Stevey, Joe and I were merely referencing Einstein’s interpretation of insanity not belittling those that are mentally ill. Geez, another example of a woke culture.So.sorry I offended you, you can put down your sign and Kleenex box.

  24. ModHairKen Says:

    It’s the blocking. Or lack of it. And a timid RB.

  25. SufferingSince76 Says:

    I have said that Bowles doesn’t act like someone in fear of losing his job. I still feel that way. But idiocy it has been with regard to the run game and it’s the kind of thing that should get him run, regardless of any previous agreement.

    Empty stadium seats are the only thing that will impress the Glazers.

  26. stpetebucfan Says:

    IF people think Bowles is the major culprit of this year’s struggles, I agree.
    He’s a good man but as Joe has correctly IMHO pointed out he’s stuck in the past.

    Beginning in the late 70’s the NFL powers made rule changes that dramatically impacted the game because THEY WANTED MORE OFFENSE! Virtually every rule and referee interpretation were changed from the obvious protection of the QB’s, to the cutting hand checks by DB’s from 10 yards to just 5, freeing WR’s and TE’s to run free through secondaries to allowing offensive linemen extending their arms and grab defenders, as opposed to the chicken wing style of blocking that had been allowed since the beginnings of the NFL.

    Apparently, TB never got the memo! And so even if the Bucs still reach the playoffs, Bowles should go. Football is entertainment! That’s why they changed the rules.

    If Bowles wins out and makes the playoffs with a first round win the Glazers still want to sell tickets.

    IF Bowles still gets to the playoffs, the Glazers and Licht need to sit down and have a man to man with TB. Is he willing to change or not? He’s a good guy and I think players respect him but if he’s not willing to change he simply needs to go. I say that even though I admire Bowles as a player and a man and formerly as DC.

  27. Steven007 Says:

    NE idiot, how on earth did you come up with that being a woke comment? I was pointing out a commonly misused expression. Clearly Einstein knew that wasn’t the definition either, but unfortunately his offhand remark about the stupidity of doing the same thing and expecting a different result gained so much traction because it was uttered by someone who’s a genius in physics.

    Anyway, hopefully you’re enjoying the Patriots blogs this time of year. So funny to see you crawl back here after stating unequivocally that you would be leaving. Man of integrity. Your true team makes a turd smell appetizing. Enjoy that.

  28. Ken Browns fan ..Baker Bro Says:

    Block a little longer and Baker Mayfield will throw it deeper,but if the o line can’t block you have to drink and dunk . Get a running back by draft or trade…a good one not a so so rb

  29. Joseph C Simmons Says:

    Mayfield misses his downfield throws a LOT. If he hit 80% of those throws:

    1. The offense would score more points overall. (Duh)
    2. Defenses would be more concerned about the pass, opening up some running room.
    3. All the attention on Mike Evans would free up Chris Godwin.

    I’m not blaming Mayfield; he is what he is and the OC has to build an offense around the talent they have. I’m just saying, it seems like the offense is built around a concept that Mayfield hits those passes that he’s currently missing.

  30. NE Fan Says:

    Steven@ it’s OK to be sensitive, it’s not your fault, it stems from breast feeding until the age of 5. Yes indeed the Patriots are experiencing the Bucs past and future woes. Here’s the difference, ownership has had enough of it and are taking strides to improve the problem. So next season when Licht and the Glazers keep Bowles and sign Baker to a $35MM contact, the Pat’s will be anchored with the option of Caleb or Harrison. In reference to Eisteins analogy, it won’t be TEN YEARS before the Patriots climb out of the cellar.

  31. Mark hardt Says:

    Baker won,t be back next year no matter what. If he is terrible last 5 he will be out of Football. If he wins the superbowl the Bucs will be outbid. Anything in-between he still leaves for the Rams as Stafford will retire soon and Baker can pursue acting.

  32. stpetebucfan Says:

    The 2023 Bucs were EXPECTED to suck for all the reasons we have already mentioned repeatedly. They have exceeded league expectations, NOT totally sucking, showing some signs of promise, but certainly having played poorly in far too many games. Does that mean blow up the team? Take a HUGE gamble on a 1st round QB pick?

    IF everybody here believes that Bowles is the major problem why not simply take care of the problem and not throw the baby out with the bathwater. Canales as a first year Coordinator has ZERO clout! He MUST do what Bowles demands.

    Mayfield is in the same position. Unlike Brady who had the power to call his shots, Mayfield is trying to revive his career and MUST do what Bowles wants.
    Mayfield is currently ranked 17th in the NFL at QB according to the NFL. That’s ahead of every other QB in the Division including Carr. Trask also has talent.

    I’m prejudiced as a Bucs fan in favor of John Lynch’s moves as GM. He built the best team in the league and THEN even he made a boneheaded draft pick, took a shot at QB trading away 3 first round draft picks for NOTHING in return only to be saved by the last pick in the draft because…he built a great team first!
    FIRST…find the right coach! Give him at minimum veto power on any personnel decisions especially QB!!!

    Then trust Licht/New Coach to fill in some obvious holes..another OL…another RB…LB..CB..yes it’s a long list but if Licht as an offseason like the last the Bucs can be good VERY quickly. There is promise on this team that is being held back by coaching philosophy.

  33. NE Fan Says:

    Joseph, I would agree except Brady threw over 700 times last season and the run never evolved. It is more the philosophy of forcing it on 1st and 2nd down making the run very predictable to opposing defenses. Someone mentioned this earlier, the O is not spread out also a common problem last season. The outside LB’s and corners can cheat in a bit and fill gaps over powering the blockers. A lot of motion also helps. For some reason these OC’s and Bowles don’t get this concept. Of you can go back to the 1st half of the Bengals game last season the O was often spread out.

  34. Steven007 Says:

    NE(ED attention), you just can’t quit us, can you? Empty life, I get it. Actually I don’t, but I conjecture that’s the case with you. There are some trolls on this site who actually do a good job of it. I’m sure you know who those are. You’re not one of them. And yet here you are. Congrats. By the way, when’s the last time the Patriots have developed a quarterback? That’s right, 20 years ago when Bill was in his 50s. Good luck with that.

  35. stpetebucfan Says:

    N.E. Fan

    I get your Brady love. If I lived in Boston I would believe Tom could walk across the Charles River. And in his day perhap he could!

    But his day was LONG past him when he played last year. Giselle is smarter than Tom and she was right…he should have retired after the SB win. She did it for her worry over health…he should have done it to save himself the disaster of last year.

    I appreciate Brady brought a SB to Tampa. He didn’t do it by himself. BA’s stategy and Licht’s massive mortgage of the future for players like Gronk and Fournette played a major role.

    Many things can be true at the same time. Appreciation for a SB from a mercenary who never thought of Tampa as his home or the Bucs as his team.
    He’s always been and will always be a Patriot. I’m cool with that. But after SOME gratitude for his SB play, I’m totally over Tommy Boy just like Giselle.

  36. Jack Clark Says:

    NE Fan Says:
    December 6th, 2023 at 9:53 am
    Pat’s will be anchored with the option of Caleb or Harrison. In reference to Eisteins analogy, it won’t be TEN YEARS before the Patriots climb out of the cellar.

    Dude, your “team” was trash before tom brady and is trash after tom brady, that’s far longer than TEN YEARS. You’re delusional if you think you’d claim to be a Patriots fan if Tom Brady never played there. Your “team” is 2-10 and lost to a 3-8 team 😂 so I don’t want to here anymore of that “we play harder teams” nonsense. Your “team” is trash and worse than ours, from the coaches to the general manager to the players, so you have no room to criticize the Bucs.

  37. Buccos Says:

    I don’t see the Patsies climbing out of the cellar anytime soon. Banking on a rookie QB to carry his team to new heights is not a good plan. NE got lucky as hell to draft Brady and he doesn’t have any sons in next years draft. So I would get used to being the laughingstock of the NFL for the foreseeable future. Oh and Belichick sucks

  38. Buc50 Says:

    Out patterns to the left have been terrible all year. He’s been inaccurate and cornerbacks routinely jump the routes because he can’t put mustard on it when needed.

  39. Conner50 Says:

    Dear Glazers can we get Jim Harbough for Christmas

  40. Tampabaybucfan Says:

    Zero targets to TEs Sunday…..yes Zero….This offense looks just like Brady’s last year…..

  41. Go Bucs Says:

    Seems like a lot of overanalyzes of the offense in the comments.

    The o-Line needs to get better.

  42. Joseph C Simmons Says:

    “NE Fan Says:
    December 6th, 2023 at 10:01 am
    Joseph, I would agree except Brady threw over 700 times last season and the run never evolved.”


    Of those 700 passes, maybe 3 of them were downfield. All of them in the Carolina game. 🙂

    Brady checked down a LOT. The benefit with Baker is that he has the mobility to roll out, scramble, and buy time for receivers to get open downfield. The problem with Baker is that he then overthrows them.

  43. Go Bucs Says:

    Seems like a lot of over analysis of the offense in the comments.

    The o-Line needs to get better.

    ( Moderator : previous comment with typo can be deleted.)

  44. Capt.Tim Says:

    Check the stats.
    Ive been saying it since week 3.
    Our star WRs are coasting. They arent gonna risk injury for this team.
    They avoid running slants and crossing patterns.
    In most cases- they WONT run slants or crossing patterns.

    Along with our horrible line, and no running game,
    That is a big reason our offense is crippled.

  45. realistic-optimistic Says:

    Evans sure looked like he was coasting on that 75-yard score. smh

  46. Tony marks Says:

    Ken Browns fan ..Baker Bro Says:
    December 6th, 2023 at 9:42 am
    Block a little longer and Baker Mayfield will throw it deeper,but if the o line can’t block you have to drink and dunk .


    Ken you must hsve missed the memo. According to the joes and the fan base here the Oline is STELLAR because of low QB sacks. Don’t beleive your eyes and certainly don’t consider common sense that theres a correlation between the 6 sacks the oline gave up in one game when the QB was limited by injury to escape sacks. WHen that happens blame the QB for all of a sudden holding the ball too long.

    Sometimes all you can do is laugh at silly takes.

  47. Tony marks Says:

    WHy are you all getting upset with NE. Obviously he’s right. After all we all know The pats are always stellar at drafting QBs that end up excelling

    Fact don’t lie

    Look at Mac Jones.


  48. Capt.Tim Says:

    Most WRs get hurt going across the middle. Our star WRs wont do it. They run into coverage. If its wide open, yeah. Otherwise, no.
    The stats show what Ive been saying since week 3

    Go routes, out routes, post- sure. Very rarely take a big hit on those.
    But as Ive been saying for weeks- they arent gonna risk rehabbing all summer, for a Coach thats getting fired, and a team going nowhere.

    Some of you wont believe it, even when you see the stats.
    Wont believe your heroes are playing it safe.
    Personally, hard to blame them.
    Surgery, and spending your summer going to physical rehab 3 times a week sucks.
    Stay healthy, for offseason with a new Coach

  49. Tony marks Says:

    Joseph C Simmons Says:
    The benefit with Baker is that he has the mobility to roll out, scramble, and buy time for receivers to get open downfield. The problem with Baker is that he then overthrows them.


    And the fatal flaw with your analysis is obvious when you roll tape on Baker in CLeveland befoe he got injured

    Yeah baker can roll out and go deep but do we see the plays in the highlight reel on him run very often in Tampa? IN fairness that in part might be because if you can’t run, the misdirection plays aint fooling anyone.

    The correlating factor with his stellar game in LA against the raiders was that for the first time in two years the Rams ( because they had him for 24 hours or less) devised the plays to Baker’s strength and what he was most comfortable with . Imagine that novel concept? Instead of having an offense and getting your players to adapt to it you instead devise an offense that plays to yout player’s best skills

    You all seemed to have forgot the offseason when Bucs coaching made it absolutely clear they wanted a game manager at QB not a slinger. That goes hand in hand with a team that wants to run the ball even if they don’t have a rungame which goes hand in hand with a defenesive coach that always preferred the team’s sterngth be in what he knows and is supposedly good at – defense.

  50. Oz Len Says:

    Baker’s short passes are the running game. You can’t constantly throw downfield and have long-term success. When the running game fails, the short passes pull the linebackers back toward the line of scrimmage. The thinking is that this will open up the field downfield. A running game does this, when that is failing, the short passes are the next option.

  51. NE Fan Says:

    Joseph, Jackie Boy, Stp and Tony, let me address some of your points. As far as QB development was there really a need to development another one when the one you developed lasted 20yrs and if not for a over the hill arrogant coach would have been 22 yrs? Whether you believe it or not Garapolo was a winning QB and drafted by the PATRIOTS. Next, Jack, Patriots went to the SB in 1985 against one of the best D’s of all times the Bears and again under Parcells in the 90’s against GB. So that’s 12 over 3 decades and won 50% of them. Please fill me in on the Bucs great accomplishments other than 2 SB’s one off the back of TB12. Stp, say what you will but it was Brady NOT BA that brought a SB to Tampa. Brady changed the culture, brought in Gronk, AB & Lenny ALL vidal parts of the 2020 SB season. Joey@ you seem to forget the Bucs WR’s were bottom tier in separation in 2022 and the dropped balls especially the Evan’s 63 yd drop in CAROLINA a throw a pee wee player could catch. I don’t blame Mayfield or Brady, it’s ALL Bowles forcing to slow down the game and plays chosen to do so. NEWS FLASH, it AIN’T working. At least Belichick is going to get the boot fir his stubborn ways and failing.

  52. Buckeyebuckchuck Says:

    NE fan, they need to keep Belichek as coach but take GM duties away. Plenty of red chippers on the roster but a serious lack of blue chippers. The Bucs have the opposite problem, plenty of blue chip players but depth got rocked by the Cap and Licht’s correct decision to take all the pain up front. That’s how you do a rebuild, also why the smart people had them tagged as a 4-5 win team. They’ve actually overachieved expectations IMO

  53. VATom Says:

    The whole preseason subterfuge that the Canales offense was designed to move side to side to spread out defenses was quite the joke….

  54. Beeej Says:

    “dmatt Says:
    December 6th, 2023 at 9:16 am
    So glad when the season is over. Mayfield is toxic for this team. He’s arrogant, and is standoffish with teammates. I sense turmoil in the locker room, n ultimately, Bowles is the culprit”

    WHERE are you getting this from? Have seen this take nowhere

  55. Lakeland Steve Says:

    The offense’s ineptitude has Todd Bowles written all over it. He complained last year because the Bucs scored too fast and his defense got wore out. Here is an idea stop the other teams offense on 3’rd down and get the ball back to your offense. We all know Bowles is in Canales ear probably all game telling him to run the damn ball. It’s sad because I think if Canales were given a fair chance this offense could be performing a lot better. But sadly we will be looking at another coaching staff moving in here by the end of the season. Then of course we have to give the new staff 2 to 3 years to get things right. So, we are back to where we were after Gruden and before Bucco Bruce Arians. The lost decade part two? I hope not.

  56. stpetebucfan Says:


    The major point I disagree with you is Belechik. Simply do the math. I’ve done it too many times already, Google his NFL coaching stats. He sucked in Cleveland with one winning season out of five a 36-44 .450 record!

    He goes to N.E. and sucks his first year. 5-11!!! He LUCKS into Brady from the 6th round and goes 11-5 and the “legend” begins. Brady leaves and Belichik is exposed as a horrible loser…a win % lower than his Cleveland years. Brady MADE BB.

    As for Brady he was long past his GOAT days when he arrived in Tampa but he still had some gas in the tank and is one of the smartest, non choking NFL players I’ve seen.

    His first choke was not listening to Gisele and retiring after the SB win. He was mediocre in year two and MUCH of last years debacle could be laid at his feet beginning with the failure to work out his marital problems LONG before the season. He missed a large chunk or prep…went to Kraft’s birthday party mid season…Brady was not only distracted…he became a distraction that infected the play of the entire team. His heart wasn’t in it last year and neither was his old man bod.

  57. Beeej Says:

    Brady threw for 5300 yards and 46 TD’s the year following the super bowl. By most measures, he should have beaten Rodgers for the mvp

  58. realistic-optimistic Says:

    depth got rocked by the Cap and Licht’s correct decision to take all the pain up front

    Taking all the pain upfront would have been a good idea, but that’s not what Licht did.

    He could have let Dean walk and rolled with McCollum. Could have traded Devin White and saved 12 mil. Could have let his 2nd round QB start instead of throwing 8 mil at a journeyman.

    Those moves were made to appease Bowles. And where has that gotten the Bucs?

  59. JD Still Says:

    Interesting graphic Joe, if you made an additional overlay to that showing where the Bucs do not go along with where the Bucs try to go and generally fail to connect, and call it the self imposed forbidden zones, I believe most people would be shocked at how limited our passing attack is and therefore how clogged our running lanes are with defenders! Now, what oh what could possibly be done to stretch the defense vertically and horizontally to unclog that mess?

  60. Since76 Says:

    Canales is being told to pound the rock by bowles and held back by a QB with less than average skill. He’s doing what he can with what he’s got and permitted to do. Feel bad for him this may have been his one shot.

  61. geno711 Says:

    Glad we got Brady.

    Showed that the Patriot Way was just the Tom Brady skill.

    For all the idiotic fans that did not understand that Belichick just lucked into the best quarterback of all time.

    How many offensive coordinators left NE during Brady’s time and failed in their new jobs. All of them.

    Patriot Way was one of the biggest lies ever fed to the media world.

    Belichick can get Caleb Williams or Marvin Harrison next year. He will never succeed again. He has shown his immense flaws in understanding and developing an offense. The league has passed him by.

  62. Defense Rules Says:

    Bring Back the Lawn Chairs … ‘Old school nfl thinking is a good running game helps a good passing game. Thats called a Balanced attack.’

    You’re first statement is spot on, but I can’t see a relationship to the second. If you Google ‘Definition of Balanced Attack NFL’ you get a huge variety of ‘definitions’. The one that resonates with me is ‘Balance doesn’t mean a 50/50 run-pass ratio. Balance is simply having the THREAT of running or passing on any given down.’

    The basis of a ‘balanced attack’ to me is that you keep the defense constantly guessing by being very unpredictable with your play-calls, formations & personnel packages. Our current Bucs are not just very predictable, they’re also not talented enough to overcome that just based on player talent alone.

    I’m of the belief now that Todd Bowles & his staff won’t be here next year. But media & fans blaming him solely for the lack of offensive performance are just being sheep & following the loudest voices. This team ran on only 33.3% of their plays last year … the LOWEST percentage AND number of rushing attempts in the NFL. Does THAT sound like Todd Bowles is calling the shots and forcing his OCs to run the ball?

    This season that percentage has increased to 40.2%, still low by most standards (our 295 attempts ranks us #26 in the NFL this year). For reference, the average NFL team is running the ball on 42.3% of their plays this year. The problem isn’t that we’re running the ball too much; the problem is being VERY predictable & unproductive when we do run it. THAT’S not on Bowles. That’s on Canales for his play design & play-calling, and yes on the players too because mano-a-mano, they’re not gittin er done.

    And yes, JL bears a goodly share of the responsibility for how this team is manned. Bowles will end up being the scapegoat-du-jour at the end of the season I’d bet, but very little will really change with a new coaching regime until we improve the talent & quality of the product that’s taking the field each week. Unfortunately that’s a LOT easier said than done, especially without stockpiled draft picks AND very little salary CAP space.

  63. NE Fan Says:

    Thank you Beej!!! geno true Belichick’s decibels for the most past have faied as HEAD COATES, but McDaniels, Wies, and O’Brien were good OC’s. O’Brien made the PO’s 3 or 4 times during his short stint in Houston. Belichick lost his power and the locker room once he sat Malcom Butler in the 2017 SB which cost them the game. He did go to the playoffs with Mac Jones his first season and he was an intricate part to Brady’s development like it or not. Now he sucks!!!

  64. BakerBucs Says:

    Dmatt says u sir r a complete idiot the entire team took to baker from day 1 every person on this team attested as much ,he even. took the entire offense to the Bahamas for an r&r during training camp u r a complete knucklehead u r on the wrong post site get off this 1 jackass

  65. BucsFan2520 Says:

    “Trask is a UF graduate. He deserves a chance to play for that reason alone. Who cares if he sucks. The fans want to see him play nothing else matters. I don’t care if the coaches see him everyday in practice, the fans haven’t seen what he can do so and we are the judge of who is good or not for our team. We know best. I watched him play at UF and saw the great pass he made last week that Godwin dropped. He is our lord and savior.”

    – Signed Every Trask Fan in JoeBucsFan

  66. BakerBucs Says:

    Defenserules says googling things in general is good but playing football & asking sury the definition of balance attack has absolutely nothing to do with live football game u guys who r. know it alls stick to u r dumb analysis without u r internet approval wtf

  67. Tony Marks Says:

    NE Fan Says:
    December 6th, 2023 at 11:50 am
    Joseph, Jackie Boy, Stp and Tony, let me address some of your points. As far as QB development was there really a need to development another one when the one you developed lasted 20yrs


    Total nonsense. You didn’t develop squat. As I recall Brady started his second year and won a SB slightly after . You just lucked out and thats why you SUCK now. It was all mostly Tom not your organization or QB “development” skills

    trying to appeal back to Tom now is sad. GO watch some old film of the glory days like an old man in rocking chair in between watching others in your NFL relevancy retirement home play pickle ball at the rec center .

    You come on here talking smack about the bucs who at least are in a playoff run while the only thing your team is chasing is the panthers shoe laces to see who can stumble over their own feet better.

    However before you go watch brady tape. Go try and trade Mac for a medium size fries to go with that hamburger you been saving from 2019. You probably won’t get it but it might get you two onion rings…..if you throw in a 3rd round pick ….. and half a bottle of pepsi.

  68. stpetebucfan Says:

    “If he hit 80% of those throws:”

    He would be the NFL MVP. 80% of his longer throws? If he hit for an average of 80% for ALL of his throws he’d be golden.

    For comparison…Tua and Dak Prescott, and Purdy are the only QB’s hitting above 70% completion %’s on all their throws…surely lower on long throws.

    Mayfield is hitting 63.6% which is right in the middle of the pack. Of course Mayfield does have the advantage over the other guys. He’s playing for an offensive genius who values the pass, behind a terrific OL, with an awesome running game. *snark font off*

  69. NE Fan Says:

    Tony I mean Groucho Marks@ Belichick drafted Brady and it was Belichick’s discipline
    culture Brady adopted and passed on to his teammates. Drew Bledsoe the number 1 pick in the draft got injured, Belichick chose Brady at that time third stringer to replace Bledsoe. Later in that season Brady got injured but it was Belichick who chose Brady to start in the 2001 SB. I was a season ticket holder for many years back to Parcells days, I experienced the evolution first hand. Belichick absolutely is responsible for Brady’s early success, in the ladder years not so much. As I posted in a previous thread Belichick is also a critical part of Garapolo’s success. Other than he is injury prone if he we the Bucs QB this season the team would have 2 or 3 more wins.

  70. NE Fan Says:

    stp@ I don’t blame you, as a fan you want to cling on to any ray of hope you can. All I’m saying is what you are, Baker is average at best. Brady in 2022 ended up 5th passing leader and #10 ranked QB in the league going through a divorce and forced to play for a HC he didn’t respect, oh and with a running game more anemic than this season. Give the man the respect he deserves.

  71. Kidfloflo Says:

    Dmatt, where are u getting the Intel that Baker is standoffish with teammates and is losing the locker room!?? Are you kidding me? Despite his short comings he is a great teammate and players have always mentioned it on all his teams!

  72. Glass used to be Half Full Guy Says:

    Joe says “Is part of the reason White struggles running because Bucs offensive coordinator Dave Canales doesn’t spread defenders out enough?”

    Exactly. There isn’t nearly enough spacing or pre-snap motions to take inside LBs or especially Safeties out of position or confuse them. They’re able to get to the point of attack way too easily. White isn’t exactly a beast at breaking tackles but he’s strong enough to get an extra yard or two after first contact if the second wave isn’t right there to finish him off immediately.

    Also, as mentioned, teams aren’t stacking the box so running counters or pulling guards and tackles, misdirection plays would help loosen things up at the line as well but for some reason, we rarely do these things that have been used successfully for decades.

    It’s maddening. It’s a copycat league but our coaches only seem to want to do it “their way”. Results be damned.