Five Things
November 27th, 2023
Joe Tryon-Shoyinka zeros in on Colts QB Gardner Minshew for a sack in yesterday’s Bucs loss. (Photo courtesy of Buccaneers.com.)
Sad day yesterday. But Joe has a full plate of meaty subjects to get to. Chug your coffee and let’s get into it.
Todd Bowles And Job Security
OK, Joe will address what every Bucs fan is thinking. Yes, Bucs coach Todd Bowles will remain in his position at least through the end of the 2023 season. Bucs history tells Joe this.
Joe has seen a lot, and Joe means a lot, of Bucs fans wanting Team Glazer to launch Bowles ASAP. For these folks, Joe cautions you better embrace Bowles as your coach for another six weeks minimum.
Team Glazer has never removed a coach midseason. Joe enjoy a wager here or there, but Joe is not inclined to gamble against “never.” Hell, Raheem Morris lost 10 straight games and Team Glazer waited until after the season to drop the ax.
Beyond the Bucs’ final game of the season, Joe has no earthly idea about Bowles’ job status but it sure doesn’t look good. The Bucs are 4-7 with six games to play. They are getting worse as the season grows long.
The Bucs must win five of their next six games to have a winning season. Does this team look like it can pull off that kind of streak without five or six plane crashes? (Yes, Joe just used an old John McKay line there.)
While Team Glazer has never removed a coach midseason, they also have only retained one coach who had back-to-back losing seasons. And that same guy won Team Glazer a Super Bowl. His name was Chucky.
So Chucky had the hardware as a head coach to back himself up; Bowles does not.
Let Joe be clear for the anti-Bowles crowd: Just because Bowles is coaching does not mean Team Glazer hasn’t already set the wheels in motion behind the scenes to hire a new coach. For example, “this Joe” had heard when former Bucs commander Greg Schiano was in his final season with the Bucs, Team Glazer and Lovie Smith’s representatives had begun negotiations in October 2013.
It Is Unlikely Kyle Trask Time
Almost as many people who are impatient with Bowles’ job security demand backup Kyle Trask start the rest of the season. Joe wouldn’t lay cash on it unless Mayfield’s ankle is too bad to play on next week at home against the Stinking Panthers.
If Bowles wasn’t before (and he was) he is certainly in job preservation mode now. If Bowles didn’t believe Mayfield was his best option to win games, the Bucs would never have signed Mayfield to begin with.
If Bowles didn’t trust Trask before, why would he change his mind now with wins all the more critical to save his career?
It’s wholly unreasonable to expect Bowles to throw himself on a live grenade and blow up his career (he will never be an NFL head coach again). He won’t do it so a small percentage of loud fans — orange and blue PJs-wearing folks — can rock back and forth in their favorite chairs on Sunday afternoons, happy that a Gators quarterback is starting, no matter the consequences.
This is not Joe’s angle, this is Joe explaining Bowles’ rationale.
So if Mayfield is healthy, Joe would be shocked if Bowles benches him. Bowles doesn’t give two sh!ts about the future. He’s worried about his career and his staff’s future.
The Bucs Are In A Pinch
So thank goodness (?) that the Bucs play in such a trash division, the NFC South. The Bucs are only one game out of first place with six games to go.
Joe believes the Bucs are going to have to win four games to be 8-9 and win the division like they did last year. Can the Bucs close the season with a 4-2 run? The way this team is playing, unlikely, but hey, Joe has seen weirder things happen.
No player or coach with a nickel’s worth of self-worth is going to play along and tank when they are just a game out. If the Bucs make the playoffs, Bowles may keep his job.
Despite all of this, the Bucs currently have the No. 7 overall pick in the draft if the season ended yesterday. That’s prime position to draft a quarterback with this class so full of quarterbacks. Or at least, be in good position to go get one in a trade-up.
What’s the point of a “meaningless” division title? Well, Joe had seen — and Joe cannot confirm or authenticate this figure — that a soldout Licht House rakes in $14.9 million at the gate for a regular season game. Obviously, that figure would be more for a playoff game.
So, $15 million, for argument’s sake, isn’t exactly “meaningless.” And that is only gate revenue.
But with a shiny new toy of a franchise quarterback drafted in the first round, that would very likely lead to much more revenue than one soldout playoff game. And if the guy becomes a stud, the river of revenue generated over the next 10-15 years is quite literally untold.
Good luck getting any players or coaches to half-ass it so the Bucs can draft a quarterback and win after those coaches and players are gone.
Winning games might get the Bucs to the playoffs. Losing games might secure a star quarterback. Talk about being between a rock and a hard place.
Baker Mayfield’s Words Are Haunting
Forget empty words from guys who have been with the Bucs for a few years about how they will turn things around. Let your eyeballs tell the story of who really has heart.
Baker Mayfield’s words really stuck in Joe’s head all night. He said after yesterday’s loss to the Colts, “Until guys get pissed off enough to get it fixed, there will be no changes.”
Take a step back into last year when the Bucs played the 49ers. Remember how the Bucs played like their entire heads were fully up their poop chutes?
Tom Brady could be seen hollering and carrying on with his offensive teammates in an effort to jolt them into better play. Were they moved to play better that day in Santa Clara?
It sure looked like they tuned Brady out.
Look at the players now playing below their skill level. Three starters in particular on defense Joe is thinking of. If those three would play to their expectations, would the Bucs be 7-4?
A good bulk of the same players from last year’s squad who tuned out Brady are still with the Bucs. And Mayfield basically called them out (twice, as he repeated yesterday what he has said before). In so many words, Mayfield is saying guys on the team don’t give a sh!t.
Go ahead and let your eyeballs figure out who Mayfield is referencing. It shouldn’t be too difficult.
And it is those guys who Bucs AC/DC-loving general manager Jason Licht needs to get out of the locker room. Let that infection spread and you’ve got a major problem on your hands.
Those guys in their season-ending exit interviews should be told, “You have played your final game with the Bucs. If we don’t trade you, we’ll release you but you’ve played your last game wearing a Bucs uniform. Thanks for helping win a Super Bowl but all good things must come to an end. We wish you well.”
Mike Evans Just About Locked Up A Hall Of Fame Induction
So iconic Bucs receiver Mike Evans caught his 89th and 90th touchdown passes of his NFL career. He is in rarified air.
That 90th catch puts him at No. 15 on the all-time list of touchdown catches. All the players ahead of him are either in the Hall of Fame, will be in the Hall of Fame, or are still active in the NFL.
The active player is Davante Adams of the Raiders. The players waiting to be inducted into the Hall of Fame with more touchdown catches than Evans are Larry Fitzgerald, Antonio Gates and foot-rubbing Rob Gronkowski.
Evans had 70 yards receiving yesterday, which brings his season total to 850. He needs 150 more yards in six games to reach 1,000 receiving yards for the 10th straight time in his career. Only the great Jerry Rice has more.
November 27th, 2023 at 4:01 am
Anyone with half a brain knew they should have dismantled this team for draft pics and rebuild the entire program.
They didn’t. And now they will pay the price, and unfortunately the fans will have to suffer through ownership’s inability make the hard decisions when it matters.
This is where the long term suffering starts to show itself. What would have been a one to two year rebuild, will now turn into probably 4-5 years of pain for all of us.
November 27th, 2023 at 4:48 am
Burn it down.
November 27th, 2023 at 5:00 am
Hey Joe. I got the vibe that the players have it in the back of their heads that they could lose against San Fran and the Colts and still make the playoffs by winning the remaining divisional games on the calendar.
November 27th, 2023 at 5:28 am
2 years in a row players have quit on Bowles.
That is damning. He’s dead man walking.
November 27th, 2023 at 5:30 am
@Lombardi Lenny: I believe they couldn’t break it down this year because every season ticket holder had to pay for 2 seasons (2022 and 2023) in order to see the last year of Brady.
The Glazers could not put on the field this year a full rebuild team or many of those ticket holders (and most important some very wealthy and influential ones) would feel they were fooled. So, they “retooled” the team instead. If you look at the contracts of the players, except for Dean, they did not commit to anyone long term this off-season. That tells me they left open the possibility of a rebuild next year.
November 27th, 2023 at 5:31 am
This teams looks and plays just like the Bucs of the 80’s
2 yards and a cloud of dust run game
QB just good enough to get you beat
Bend and then break D after the O struggles all game
We get down double digits, claw back in it when the opponent gets conservative with a lead, only to lose in the end in a one score game”
Perkins, Williamson, Bennett, Bowles – all the same breed!!!!!!
November 27th, 2023 at 5:37 am
If we had a real H.C., and a G.M. with brains, and balls those players who are under performing would be benched! Devin White let Minshew juke him out, and score a TD. This isn’t the first time. Last year Purdy, and Mahommes made him look like a fool the same way. Yet he’s the captain of the sinking Bucs D. That’s a problem that’s been a problem, and the problem hasn’t been fixed, not even addressed. Bowles defends White, won’t call him out. Need to really clean house this time, and that means Licht needs to leave along with his failures. Licht is to attached to his bad picks, JTS, Hall, White, need a new set of eyes on this roster now, and in the future.
November 27th, 2023 at 5:41 am
I don’t trust this Ownership to find an above average “long term” answer at HC and I don’t trust the front office to find more than an occasional great player.
Besides Arians/Brady, when you look at the past 20ish seasons, it’s pretty telling. We get some great position players, but bad teams. We get talent but hapless schemes. I don’t know why, when you look around the NFL the Bucs are repetitively so toothless? Hard not to focus on the top.
We need a TEAM builder, not a talent scout who hits a couple out of the park but has a terrible batting average.
We need a HC flexible enough to play to his team strengths and who can find a staff that elevates the guys who surround Wirfs, Evans, Winfield, Godwinn David…
November 27th, 2023 at 5:48 am
Team takes on the identity of the HC. Theyre not getting mad about anything. They’re saying with squeaky voices how they have to play better and stop making mistakes. I’m still not sure why people are screaming for bowles job now not last season. If anyone thought he’d have a better record without Brady than with Brady then they need their noggins checked. One wants to win every week and one thinks they have all season to correct their mistakes.
November 27th, 2023 at 6:07 am
Playoffs are more important to owners and players than fans=fact
Thinking Bowles could have a winning season without Brady =hopeful lunacy
Not giving the guy we drafted in the 2nd round who proved in college he could come off the bench and win a chance=
the stupidity we’ve all come to expect from losing record ReTodd(thanks for that one Couch! ) Bowles
November 27th, 2023 at 6:12 am
This season should focus on Mike getting his thousand yards and 10 more TDs while in a Bucs uniform. I mean we have two games against the Panthers and Lattimore just went on IR, Mike should be able to get 5 tuddies and 300 yards combined in those games
November 27th, 2023 at 6:12 am
The lack of effort is horrible to watch! It’s like watching a car wreck in slow motion and all you can do is sit there and watch, hell I’m starting to not give a sh!t myself.
November 27th, 2023 at 6:55 am
Who would want to pay inflated “Glazer greed” ticket prices to watch this team get the snot beat out of them in a playoff game?
November 27th, 2023 at 6:57 am
I give the Bucs credit, they make me appreciate the Lightning. A superior run franchise. Go Bolts ⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️
November 27th, 2023 at 7:03 am
Dear Joe ,
As I stated before only a small % of gate receipts go to the team for a home playoff game just like in the regular season the lions share of money is shared by all 32 teams. Bucs keep parking and concession revenues which is 2-3 mill per game and they receive a travel stipend if they play a road playoff game to help defray travel costs and that is it. You also had an article right after the last loss where you stated Bucs opened as a favorite over Indy on the Vegas Line , sorry Joe but that never happened as the line opened at Bucs +1.5 and never went near Bucs giving points. Please make effort to be more erudite when writing your articles. HIRE HARBAUGH.
November 27th, 2023 at 7:11 am
Joe: “It Is Unlikely Kyle Trask Time”
Mayfield’s record is .363. When is it Task Time? .100? .050?
November 27th, 2023 at 7:13 am
Bowles can’t bench the players that need to be because he’s coaching for his job. It’s a bit of a death spin…..if you don’t hold all players accountable, pretty soon everyone is playing how they wish.
November 27th, 2023 at 7:25 am
Joe: “The Bucs currently have the No. 7 overall pick in the draft if the season ended yesterday. That’s prime position to draft a quarterback.”
You mean like prime top-pick quarterbacks Zach Wilson, Trey Lance, Justin Fields, and Mac Jones?
November 27th, 2023 at 7:46 am
Lombardi Lenny – yes you would think, but I would guess 75% of fans are blinded by nostalgia and being overly sentimental over 2020 and 2021, desperately hanging on. This version of the Bucs has been coming apart at the seams for a long time, this iteration of the Bucs is over and further we are not ANYWHERE NEAR as talented as many want to believe. And even the so called talented guys, they aren’t necessarily whom you would call dogs. We do not have enough dogs on this team. One thing that is a problem that is hiding in plain sight is you can’t have 2 20 million dollar receivers with one putting up pedestrian numbers at best ever-single-week and isn’t quite the same guy. Everything about this team should be gutted. We’ve become unlikeable and soft
November 27th, 2023 at 7:49 am
GusO- like Joe said, Bowles isn’t going to make a decision to appease the very few freaks wearing orange and blue pajamas. Really wish this applied in ALL aspects of life. ANYway, If he was “that guy” in practice and in meetings then he’d be playing.
November 27th, 2023 at 7:53 am
Joe says:
Mayfield basically called them out (twice, as he repeated yesterday what he has said before). In so many words, Mayfield is saying guys on the team don’t give a sh!t.
At the beginning of the season I said that if Bowles started Mayfield, after having been clearly outplayed by Trask, the team would not take it well. That along with his other personnel mismanagement has the team feeling like they’re in a losing situation. “What difference does it make if I play hard? Coach is not playing the best players. And, he’s making dumb in game decisions.”
So Joe, if you took a Bowles confidence poll among the players what do you think the results would be? It’s obvious! They’ve given up on him. The only way to get the team back is to play Trask because they all know Baker isn’t hacking it.
November 27th, 2023 at 7:54 am
Gofortheface30 – Go play with your Jameis doll as you offer nothing intelligent to the conversation.
November 27th, 2023 at 7:57 am
ATLBuc Says: “At the beginning of the season I said that if Bowles started Mayfield, after having been clearly outplayed by Trask, the team would not take it well.”
Totally agree. The players knew a career bust loser was gifted the starting job and they didn’t like the smell of it.
November 27th, 2023 at 7:57 am
For those calling for Trask, what exactly will Trask provide that’s better than Baker?! Height?!
This was a whole team effort. I was not previously on the “fire Bowles” bandwagon but, he’s losing his players. It said a LOT for him not to challenge either play by Durham, and especially Evans, only to have 2 timeouts at the end of the game.
There is a palpable difference Arians and Bowles coaching this team.
November 27th, 2023 at 8:01 am
Bucsfanman Says:
November 27th, 2023 at 7:57 am
For those calling for Trask, what exactly will Trask provide that’s better than Baker?! Height?!
We need to find out before we consider drafting a quarterback with a first round pick.
November 27th, 2023 at 8:08 am
ATL- What don’t we know? They brought in Baker. If Trask was “the guy” they wouldn’t have signed Baker.
November 27th, 2023 at 8:13 am
Sending this team to the playoffs is like sending a lamb to slaughter.
I think Bowles promised Licht and the Glazers that he could carry this team through the bad cap years by fielding a strong defense. That’s why White wasn’t traded. That’s why Dean got a big contract. That’s why Licht picked yet another defensive player in round 1. And finally, that’s why Mayfield was signed.
Bowles wanted to draft Mayfield in 2018. The guy was projected as a 1st round QB, but absolutely nobody had him coming off the board #1. Bowles had to settle for Darnold and has been pining for a chance to work with Mayfield ever since.
November 27th, 2023 at 8:15 am
This is very true.
November 27th, 2023 at 8:15 am
No way they bench Baker or any starters as long as they have a chance & they do have a chance wit games remaining against the Saints and Falcons
November 27th, 2023 at 8:22 am
The Defense stinks – 6yds/carry rushing for 150 yards. The soft zone stinks – the D stinks because of Bowles coaching- alot of wasted talent
Gardner Minshew put up as many points as Brock Purdy
Bucs need a Center that can push the pile and snap it accurately- not low every other play…the interior OLine has no push and that starts with Center.
I hope they don’t waste their 1st round pick on some overhyped college QB just because the local media like the story.
November 27th, 2023 at 8:22 am
Three unnamed starters on D that are under achieving. Who does Joe mean? Joe has pretty much called out White. Perhaps Davis and Dean are the other two?
November 27th, 2023 at 8:25 am
Gus0 – The fact that you immediately defaulted to me being an FSU fan is so..I dont even know what to call it. Typical mongoloid, jersey wearin’, fat footbawwww fan whose brain immediately defaulted to a brain dead retort/assumption (that im an fsu guy, lol wrong). You say bring nothing intelligent to the conversation and yet your position is your inability be objective or nuanced to even understand the post. It’s also quite adorable that you think preseason games are the primary litmus tests used to evaluate quarterbacks. Buddy, your second round pick couldnt even win a backup job over Blaine Gabbert. He couldnt even dress. Get a clue dork. But hey, “IF YOU AINT GAYTERRR YER GATOR BAYYYYT”
November 27th, 2023 at 8:32 am
CB’s one thing: Bowles & Co.
November 27th, 2023 at 8:37 am
People play deferent with live bullets. We do know Baker is not the answer. Give Trask a shot. Maybe he hits that open WR where Baker is running around.
November 27th, 2023 at 8:45 am
There seems to be a generational divide between this coach and the players. There are plenty of older coaches who have success but Bowles is not only older but has very old school philosophies. A non Bucs friend asked how do you sit and watch that boring crap? Started wondering is that how the players feel as well. There is little to no excitement or motivation to this team. The players literally look disinterested and unmotivated.
November 27th, 2023 at 9:02 am
Recent performances are surely indicative of what to expect in the coming weeks with the Todd Bowles led Bucs. He isn’t Head Coach material!
The Bucs are on a path of an early round Quarter Back Pick, which isn’t a bad thing.
The Glazers’ want to increase their revenue, so get a really good Quarterback and draft the best players available instead of filling a need. Embrace a winners mentality and within a couple of years we can be in the winner’s circle again.
The Glazers brought on Tom Brady, the Ultimate winner, now you have the formula to win again.
November 27th, 2023 at 9:04 am
If we can see Trask play a game, even just 1 full game, we will know more than we do now. EVERYONE against Kyle is basing that on Bowels choice of QB, or just a gator hater. Bowels decision means nothing to me, he is not the smartest cookie in the clas. Need proof. Going into halftime with 3 TO left. Knealing most 1st haves with over 30 sec left. Not benching DW JTS RN RW….and continue to have KV take up a roster spot. Punting instead of attempting 55-60 yrd field goals.. I could go one. JUST DUMB DUMB DUMB.
Yesterday woukd have been a perfect game to see Trask. Baker injured if not horrible injury he could be better by next week, we see Kyle play,.we all could make informed decisions on him…
I would hate to waste a 1st round pick on a QB if we can compete next year and get a a top rd OL or RB TE or Edge.
Let’s see what the MRI says…if Baker is hurt maybe they choose Wolford over trask.
I’d bet Tood was happy that we had penalty on Stinnie, cause Kyle would have scored with pass to Evans..then Bucs fans would have been in pandemonium.
November 27th, 2023 at 9:16 am
Five Things?
1) 2 Plays INT
2) 3 Plays Punt
3) 3 Plays Punt
4) 5 Plays Punt
5) 6 Plays Punt
Average 10 yards per drive.
Honorable Mention. 3 Plays Fumble
November 27th, 2023 at 9:18 am
At this point I’m all for letting Dean/Davis/White go. Dean & Davis really screwed the team the hardest.
We have a bottom 3 pass defense (YPA or yards either way) while paying 2 CB’s top 13 CB money and while having an all pro S. That’s about as bad a mismanagement of resources vs production I can think of. The run D is OK but not elite (~10th).
In general the team on defense had too much talent to play like this. I don’t get it. The team identify was supposed to be elite defense + conservative safe offense and while we have been that in a couple games, the majority of games our defense is just giving up chunk plays like it was the Lovie days and we are playing from behind.
November 27th, 2023 at 9:37 am
Where is Licht being held accountable for this mess? 3 winning seasons in 9 years, two of which were Brady’s years, and a very weak draft track record. He should be in line with Bowles.
November 27th, 2023 at 10:01 am
Lynchmob47
Look at it again, Stinnie most likely saved Trask an interception, the only player in close vicinity to that ball was a Colts defender who caught it one handed.
Evans was on the outside edge of the endzone eand Trask threw the ba with about a yard of inside leverage, there was 0 chance Evans was catching that. It was a 50/50 between an interception and an incomplete pass.
His second attempt was catchable though and should have definitely been caught. That’s been the story all season though, critical drop in every of the last 4-5 games. Godwin had a bad drop, Palmer has had butterfingers all season and Evans has a critical drop every few games. Whether it is Baker or Trask throwingg the ball, we won’t win until ou receivers can stop missing easy catches and we can stop with the idiot penalties on critical downs
November 27th, 2023 at 10:33 am
TANK = NOT TANK = TANK
I love the talk track: “Bowles would never tank.” The Bucs have lost 7 of 8 games and they’re trying to win. If the Bucs were trying to tank, they’d have lost 7 of 8 games.
November 27th, 2023 at 11:50 am
i do agree with letting some guys go that have the talent but not the desire to win
November 27th, 2023 at 11:52 am
Y’all having a conversation with someone named Lombardi Lenny over breaking a team down and dismantling for draft picks and don’t see the irony?
Fournette was an overpaid and overrated RB that made us more cash strapped than we should have been. It was underperforming vets like him that made the salary purge happen this season and also why we can’t “dismantle”… because of the salary cap.
Also, dismantling a team suggests we have overpaid older vets with value. Other than Mike Evans, that describes nobody. Wirfs, Vea, Kancey, Winfield, are young potential perennial all-pros that you just don’t dump.
November 27th, 2023 at 1:19 pm
Playoffs are more important to owners and players than fans=fact
Thinking Bowles could have a winning season without Brady =hopeful lunacy
Not giving the guy we drafted in the 2nd round who proved in college he could come off the bench and win a chance=
the stupidity we’ve all come to expect from losing record ReTodd(thanks for that one Couch! ) Bowles.
November 27th, 2023 at 1:29 pm
Sorry about repost was in moderation for so long
November 27th, 2023 at 1:45 pm
@JOE besides DW45 who else are you talking bout should get the boot ? I’m curious who you think compared to me. Until yesterdays game I would have said CD111 but he tackled well laid some good hits and had a int other than that he’s had a terrible season. Dean too but man it’s a passing league and it be hard to give up 2 good cover corners. When Bowles plays them in man they do way better than in zone. JTS n hall weren’t on the SB team. AW31 n LVD are having great seasons. Trying to think of other players that were on SB team who are playing terrible. ME13 another exellent season and people want us to get rid of him 🤦♂️. IT’s criminal what they are doing to CG14. RW1 wasn’t in SB team but is putting in a solid receiving game. Who else are you talking about JOE lol
November 27th, 2023 at 3:42 pm
Ownership and the Org. did the team a disservice by not going full on rebuild this year. I understand the logic to try and thread the needle this year because of the Brady holdovers, ticket situation, etc. But it would’ve been much better to clean house (player wise) and evaluate everybody this year with zero expectations, even with a bad division. Then with a young/bad roster, evaluate Bowles and his staff on a curve. Then go from there, if theres progress and the kids show upside, Bowles would stay for 2024, if he did what he’s doing now, its easier to cut bait for 2024.
November 27th, 2023 at 3:46 pm
JJ and coach Harbaugh! Let the dynasty begin!
November 27th, 2023 at 7:35 pm
“Possibility of a rebuild next year”? LOL. You mean we can either face a rebuild next year or a train wreck of a season. Or train wrecks of multiple seasons. Lombardi…basically what I said yesterday. We waited a year too long, and will get no value for some prime FA’s. And we may face the disaster of probably missing out on a top tier QB if we play just well enough to win this trainwreck of a division.
November 28th, 2023 at 11:58 am
Gus.O. Them not liking the smell of it must be why they started 3-1. Stop sounding dumb.
November 28th, 2023 at 12:34 pm
Bosch Says:
Three unnamed starters on D that are under achieving. Who does Joe mean? Joe has pretty much called out White. Perhaps Davis and Dean are the other two?
I say Joe is being kind….
JTS, Shaq, Vita, Nelson, Hall, Gaines….. throw all the D linemen into a hat and pick 3…. Secondary sucks because of scheme and lack of a pass rush. Really think Player talent is there – Team coaching is not.