Was Tom Brady The Best Ever? Yes And No
February 2nd, 2023
Sets the record straight.
Very interesting debate on a special broadcast on BSPN yesterday morning.
Yesterday was sort of a reunion of “Mike and the Mad Dog,” the “Pope,” Mike Francesa and Chris “Mad Dog” Russo, who for decades dominated New York sports radio. The two reunited on “First Dump” and it was good TV for a change.
Obviously, the Tom Brady retirement caught them by surprise so they didn’t have a rehearsed segment on Brady. But Francesa said something Joe found very interesting, and actually correct.
Francesa said that while Brady is the greatest quarterback, he was not the greatest regular-season quarterback, nor the greatest Super Bowl quarterback.
For a regular-season quarterback, Francesa said the best was Peyton Manning. For a Super Bowl quarterback, no one toyed with perfection like Joe Montana (he never lost a Super Bowl and never threw a pick in a Super Bowl).
Add up regular season and Super Bowl, Brady is the best, Francesa maintained. Separate either and Brady was not the best.
Joe held firm for the longest time that Joe Montana was the farm animal, not Brady, because of Montana’s superior Super Bowl play. But once Joe in-person saw Brady work his magic and single-handedly turn around a woebegone franchise like Tampa Bay, then Joe was convinced Brady was the farm animal.
Fun debate while pounding Big Storm Brewing beers and wolfing down wings at Hooters.
"[Tom Brady's] not the best regular season quarterback I've ever seen. Peyton Manning was. He's not the best Super Bowl quarterback who ever lived, Joe Montana is. What he is though, is the guy who played the longest and he won the most games."
🍿 @MikeFrancesa pic.twitter.com/AykNf2AYwo
— First Take (@FirstTake) February 1, 2023
February 2nd, 2023 at 9:05 am
Ouch!
February 2nd, 2023 at 9:14 am
Silly argument. Calling Joe the best Super Bowl quarterback ever means that losing BEFORE even making the Super Bowl is greater than getting there. Brady being the best Super Bowl QB ever isn’t even a close debate.
February 2nd, 2023 at 9:16 am
When Brady calmly and methodically engineered the comeback against Atlanta in the Super Bowl, that’s when he passed Montana for me as the GOAT QB. The Super Bowl win with the Bucs added an exclamation point.
I generally prefer to assign GOAT status for eras of football anyway. It’s hard to fairly compare Montana to Brady or vice versa. But the longevity for Brady is unique and while the rules will allow future QBs to play and be productive into their 40’s, I’m not sure if we see another Brady in our lifetime.
Mahomes will be someone to keep an eye on, especially if KC beats Philly in the Super Bowl. He has the upside to really go on a statistical winning tear for years to come, but nothing is guaranteed in the NFL, which makes Brady’s career stand out even more to me.
February 2nd, 2023 at 9:21 am
Does Manning or Montana have 19 division titles? Have they played in 10 SB’s. When Montana plays in 10 SB’s and wins 7, should have been 8 if not for Belichick’s stubbornness, then talk. Did Montana do it with two teams? Nothing to see here. To all I did you adieu. I’ll pop in next season when Bucs are 1-7 to see how Blows is doing. Nothing kills a good team more than a BAD coach. BA killed the Bucs, Bowles killed the Goat!!!
February 2nd, 2023 at 9:22 am
Bid(autofill)
February 2nd, 2023 at 9:26 am
Another old man looking for attention.
Everyone has the right for his own opinion, but this is just stupid….
February 2nd, 2023 at 9:26 am
Haters.
Best Regular season QB…
Best Super Bowl QB
Wow… go back and check out who had more regular season wins and home field advantage in postseason… Brady or Manning!?!
Joe Montana four appearances in Super Bowl… yet, he got blown out few times in playoffs and could not reach Super Bowl. Brady… 14 appearances in conference championships, 10 Super Bowl appearances.
So disappointed that they air out this utter stupidity in national TV. They are either numbed by Tom’s greatness or biased in flawed favoritism.
They so undermined his longevity like nothing. He absolutely sounded as if Brady had MORE CHANCE to play in Super Bowl… CHANCE!?! Are you kidding me!?! Never heard that players are invited to Super Bowls like they were given opportunities or chances. They are deeply fake frauds.
They are incapable of appreciating greatness before their eyes… cursed so to speak. Funny… Brady beat up on list of these fancy QBs these buffoons seem to worship in most big games… (Aaron Rodgers, Pat Mahomes, Josh Allen, Drew Brees, Justin Herbert, Peyton Manning, Kurt Warner…) yet he lost to the likes of Eli Manning and Nick Foles…
They are butt hurt because Brady is better than so called talented QBs. Pathetic. Haters will hate.
Go Bucs!
February 2nd, 2023 at 9:29 am
Stephen Bopp is 100% correct. How is losing before a superbowl better then winning a conference championship. And the more superbowls you go to the more likely you are to lose. Montana never made it with the chiefs and he couldn’t get past buffalo. Brady has played in more superbowls then every franchise but the patriots. He has done it with multiple teams that may not have more than 1 hall of famer. Crazy
Look up Montana 49er teams. The rosters could own a room in the hall of fame.
February 2nd, 2023 at 9:35 am
Montana went to 4 SBs…..Brady 10……I dare say that Montana would have lost a SB & thrown a pick if he played in 6 more.
February 2nd, 2023 at 9:38 am
We live in a world that there is still a national talking head (Rob Parker) who does not believe Brady deserves to be a Hall of Famed.
I do clearly remember that when Brady was lights out in perfect 2007 season breaking all sorts of records IN STYLE with Randy Moss who at the time was considered by many WASHED UP, there was one journalist who did not vote Tom MVP that season… he should’ve been easily an unanimous choice.
The hate is unreal.
Go Bucs!
February 2nd, 2023 at 9:47 am
@NEfan
Help me out man, talk me off the ledge. I was sure Brady was going to play for the 9ers next season and was so looking forward to it. I can’t believe he left after his first losing season. I never thought he’d quit like that. Is there something physically wrong with him? Did he not get offers from other teams behind the scenes?
Of course Tom Brady is the NFL GOAT. Is the media already re-writing history? By any objective measure Brady far exceeds Manning and Montana. Dammit, Brady should play next season with the 9ers and win #8 just to silence the critics for one more year.
February 2nd, 2023 at 9:59 am
I know stubborn chuckleheads arent interested in a nuanced discussion because just like in politics you either have your bed wetting liberals that refuses to listen to the other side, or the extreme right that massages their prostate with their AR barrel. Typical dumb tribe mentality humans, dare try to challenge the concept that someones peak may have been better. New ngland fans want to point to rings and say reg season doesnt matter (as if its not a team sport) but get BIIIIG MAAAAD when anyone dare says Peyton Manning is by far the best reg season quarterback ever. For many MANY years, Manning WAS considered the best qb in the league with Brady at his physical peak. It is Manning with all the MVP’s and better numbers at peak. IT is Manning that literally called all the plays. Manning was the offense while brady has always been differentials to the offensive coordinator. I know facts give some of you menstrual cramps and all, but both things can be true. Brady is the greatest. But if im talking physical prowess and peak ability and skill, im taking Manning, Marino, Mahomes. And so would a lot of people. Eye test matters too.
February 2nd, 2023 at 10:01 am
Favre. Never played with a Hall of Fame player on offense. Brady did. Montana did. Bradshaw did.
February 2nd, 2023 at 10:20 am
The era’s were different. Montana played before true NFL parity, plus he had Jerry Freakin’ Rice – one of the hardest players to cover I think I’ve ever seen.
Agree that Manning was better at regular season as a general statement.
Agree that Montana was better at Superbowls, UNTIL Brady gave us the 28-3 game.
Brady is the best overall, all-around QB, because he had that clutch gene and was money in the biggest games and moments. Plus, he always gave his teams the home-town discount.
Brady is the GOAT to me.
February 2nd, 2023 at 10:23 am
Captain Oblivious @ clearly visitation rights are in his decree. Therfore he most likely would not have seen his children as much as he would have liked to. I think this divorce was more toxic than we thought.
February 2nd, 2023 at 10:47 am
Greatest of All Time
If you’re a sports historian, the concept of GOAT is an offense to the game. There is no GOAT. It’s a team game and combinations of players and coaches is what produces success. Our current focus on the GOAT disregards so many players that made the game of football the GOAT.
February 2nd, 2023 at 10:59 am
What a stupid take- how many playoff games did Brady win to get to 10 SB’s?
February 2nd, 2023 at 11:00 am
Brady won his first 3 superbowls with recievers , backs and tight ends most people don’t know. Corey Dillion for 1 season was the most known player. Manning was always loaded on offense with pro bowl and HOF players on the line, receiver and backfield. He had top tigh ends every season. Brady just won with a constant changing crew of sometimes cast off players.
February 2nd, 2023 at 11:17 am
The best single season in NFL history is Marino’s 1984 season. He threw for 5,000 years before anyone else. He never won a Super Goal and he is not the All-time Goat.
But his play for 2-3 years was the best I ever saw and it isn’t particularly close.
February 2nd, 2023 at 11:32 am
Check out Fran Tarkenton stats. His numbers for his Era are unreal.. nobody respects Fran! I will say Marino is the best pure passer I have ever watched. Release was so fast.
February 2nd, 2023 at 11:49 am
Bucs56 – the best single game I ever saw anyone play was Marino against the ’85 Bears. He put up 38 points against the best D I ever saw – because the ball came out so fast the Bears blitz couldn’t get home.
February 2nd, 2023 at 12:07 pm
Manning is not in Brady league on any level.
Look at manning first years he played like Winston…
Manning had Reggie Wayne Marvin Harrison Dallas clack Edgerrin James Marshall faulk.. he had weapons everywhere
February 2nd, 2023 at 12:38 pm
These two moes are stupid. Brady went to 10 Super Bowls. TEN.
14 Conference Championships — FOURTEEN. (Thanks to current Bucs headless coich and his brilliance in the last 45 seconds against the Rams, that number is not 15, nor is the Super Bowl count 11, nor is the Super Bowl victory count 8.)
Tom’s sample size is so much bigger than anyone else’s.
Brad Johnson never lost a Super Bowl either. He only went to one. Idiots.
February 2nd, 2023 at 12:46 pm
I despise BSPN. Garbage network.
February 2nd, 2023 at 12:56 pm
Take care NEfan. See you around game 8 next season.
February 2nd, 2023 at 1:11 pm
What an a$$hat.
February 2nd, 2023 at 1:29 pm
Bullspit.
February 2nd, 2023 at 1:38 pm
Brady played in a garbage division for 20 years. Win a couple of playoff games and you are in the Super Bowl. Fast forward to his Buc days and he wins the division his last two years. Again a garbage division. The one year where he had to match up against a QB like him was in 2020 with Brees. He didn’t win the division but his defense balled out the last 3 weeks to give him ring 7.
Also when Gronk was slow to start his Buc career Brady was 7-5 to start. He went 22-5 with Gronk after that then wrapped it up going 8-10 without Gronk.
I see a pattern.
February 2nd, 2023 at 1:42 pm
Get lost NEfan. The sooner, the better. All this business about QBs ignores the simple fact that football is a TEAM sport. Jesus could come back as a QB, but if the rest of the team stinks, he loses.
February 2nd, 2023 at 2:15 pm
Who cares. Rules change. Style of play changes. You could easily make the case that if Dan Marino had played against today’s pass interference rules, no one would be talking about any of the QBs mentioned.
February 2nd, 2023 at 2:30 pm
i thought mike francessa passed away?
February 2nd, 2023 at 2:50 pm
Francesca has been in Montana’s camp for decades. Always points to his undefeated SB history. That’s it. Every year, he would bring this up with comparisons to Brady. But as Brady began piling on the trophies I think the tide turned in most people’s eyes. Mike’s ego will never let him change his tune. He rides with Montana. Greatest regular season QB controversy is for talk radio, Brady is the best ever. Ask the guys who played against Manning and Brady.
February 2nd, 2023 at 3:09 pm
To be precise, Montana was the fourth best on Sunday’s between 1—4 PM. Second best between 4—7 PM and ninth on MNF.
Why get upset when these guys offer a crazy take or differing opinion? They are paid to get under your skin. Bet half of them don’t even believe what they’re saying. The only qualification from producers and directors is it must be different to “piss off a few fans.”
And it sure appears to be working.
Suckers!
February 2nd, 2023 at 4:27 pm
Stephen Bobb nailed it.
Just dumb logic. Do I think from a physical and mechanics standpoint that Brady is the best QB to ever play? No (though he’s definitely in the top). But from a preparation, dedication, and most importantly WINNING standpoint? Absolutely he is. No one else is even close. Obviously football is the ultimate team sport, but Brady’s career can not be matched or undervalued.
February 2nd, 2023 at 5:18 pm
unbelievable.
Brady’s mechanics was second to none, most QB gurus confirmed.
Go Bucs!
February 2nd, 2023 at 5:19 pm
Uh, guys? Brady played in the salary cap era with terrible offenses and carried them to Super Bowl wins. Belicheat could always throw scrubs at Brady and Brady kept delivering. There is absolutely no comparison between Brady and other QBs. And I think that he should keep playing.
February 2nd, 2023 at 6:00 pm
I like to believe that there’s no Goats in football like in Basketball or Baseball. Too many positions with too many moving parts for a single player to be a Goat. But you can be a Goat QB or Goat Wr. That’s more like it
February 2nd, 2023 at 7:27 pm
NEfan Says:
February 2nd, 2023 at 9:21 am
Does Manning or Montana have 19 division titles? Have they played in 10 SB’s. When Montana plays in 10 SB’s and wins 7, should have been 8 if not for Belichick’s stubbornness, then talk. Did Montana do it with two teams? Nothing to see here. To all I did you adieu. I’ll pop in next season when Bucs are 1-7 to see how Blows is doing. Nothing kills a good team more than a BAD coach. BA killed the Bucs, Bowles killed the Goat!!!
Right there with you. Montana was amazing! but being unable to get to more Super Bowls makes him a better QB? Manning was a helluva regular season QB, but its hard to say he is better considering longevity and the simple fact that Tom came from being nobody and improved throughout his career. They were amazing to watch compete for so long. These two morons dont deserve a moment of my attention.
February 2nd, 2023 at 7:29 pm
Captain Oblivious Says:
February 2nd, 2023 at 9:47 am
@NEfan
Help me out man, talk me off the ledge. I was sure Brady was going to play for the 9ers next season and was so looking forward to it. I can’t believe he left after his first losing season. I never thought he’d quit like that. Is there something physically wrong with him? Did he not get offers from other teams behind the scenes?
Of course Tom Brady is the NFL GOAT. Is the media already re-writing history? By any objective measure Brady far exceeds Manning and Montana. Dammit, Brady should play next season with the 9ers and win #8 just to silence the critics for one more year.
I was sure he would go for one last dance to the super bowl the the 9ers… I am devastated. But at least I dont have to watch this SH!TE team with their SH!TE coach next year now.
February 2nd, 2023 at 8:31 pm
Ok, clearly a Brady hater. Just BS arguments. I think i’ll just hit a couple biased points the clown makes. Firstly, if they could have played longer they would have. Mannings arm was shot tte last few years he played. Joe, while I believe he is a very close second to Brady, his body was shot, back, knees. Brady’s body still well intact. He could have played another 2-3 years. Second, every pro plays for one reason and one reason only statistically. Championships!!! Brady has 7, and of the 7 5 MVPs!!! You can break it down statistically after that, but why. 7 Superbowls is more than any team in the league has in their entire history.. Discussion closed!!!
February 2nd, 2023 at 8:43 pm
Montana played in the same West Coast Offense his entire career. The Chiefs hired his old SF QB coach as OC to install it after they traded for him. I’ll give him that Manning is the Best Regular Season QB. He has way more 7x All-Pro 1st Team & 3x All-Pro 2nd Team selections to Brady’s 3x 1st Team & 3x 2nd Team selections. But Tom Moore was his OC for his entire time with the Colts. Brady had different OC’s and different style offenses for 20yrs in NE. I think Manning and Brady could play in any style offense, while I don’t think Montana could say the same. He was shorter and lighter, so I don’t think he could stand tall in the pocket waiting for his WR’s to go deep like Manning and Brady could. Montana was quick throws. Their long pass plays were usually the WR’s catching a 5-20yd pass and then taking it to the house. He didn’t throw it 40-50yds downfield hitting them in stride like Manning and Brady did.
February 2nd, 2023 at 9:38 pm
Mike Francesca is a big mouth blow hard Brady hater for life. Brady was in every way the GOAT. Add to that the fact that he achieved what he did, despite many seasons with questionable rosters, skinflint ownership, A LOT of bad drafting by Belichick. No question.
Montana was and remains perpetually overrated. Same with the Mannings. And if you’re talking about GOATs, the modern sports media refuses to go back in history to the 70s,60s, even earlier. Yes, there were giants that are forgotten.
February 2nd, 2023 at 10:56 pm
March of 2004, more than two months after Patriots beat the Colts again in the playoffs, Bill Polian and the rest of the competition committee implemented the Ty Law rule. Aka…reinforce 5 yard chuck rule and place high emphasis on calling any touching of the WR, as pass interference. The nfl record book when it comes to passing forever changed. Brady, Brees, Rodgers, every other high level QB and offensive coordinator have taken extreme advantage. Why wouldn’t they?
The argument for best ever is a jackass argument because you’ll never see Montana, Marino play in the post 2004 era where playing defense is a lesser charge than assault. Nor will you see Brady, Rodgers play in an era where playing defense was allowed. Brady is the greatest of his era. Not the Unitas era, Staubach/Bradshaw/Tarkenton era, Montana/Marino/Elway era, etc.
Let’s not forget, 3 of the super bowls Bradys teams won were extremely good for fortune. Seattle tried to make Wilson a hero after Marshawn lynch carried 5 Patriots to the goalline, the play before the interception. Shanahan and Dan Quinn pissed down their legs, playing scared and stupid with a 28-3 lead (Shanahan showed he hadn’t learned from that, the way he handled the end of the 1st half against Dallas). Finally, yes I’ll say it, bucs took advantage of chiefs having 2 nfl linemen and 3 scrubs from the xfl in roughing up Mahomes 2 years ago.
Brady is the greatest of his era, but this is a team sport. Think he plays in 10 super bowls between with Lions and Browns, rather than Patriots and Bucs…I’m sure you do. Lol. The clowns on TV, and we here are engaging in barroom talk. Everyone’s opinion is not written in stone.
February 2nd, 2023 at 11:16 pm
As many people have pointed out if you devided Brady’s career into three separate periods each period would be good enough to get him in the Hall of Fame. Nobody else even comes close to being at his level and probably never will.