A Development Red Flag?
February 18th, 2020
The dissection of Jameis Winston, America’s Quarterback, officially has reached a new level with a fresh critique leveled today by a former NFL executive.
This one is certainly thought-provoking.
“Get Up” on ESPN television featured former NFL linebacker Emmanuel Acho and ex-GM and Dolphins boss Mike Tannenbaum talking about Jameis.
Tannenbaum said “absolutely not” when asked if Jameis is worthy of a starting job. He threw out a different look at Jameis, in addition to the standard criticism.
“Since he’s been in the league, guys, they are in the top-5 in delay of game,” Tannenbaum said. “So we can talk about all the turnovers, which he’s led the league in the last five years. But the delay of game is a lack of awareness, and he has not developed where he needs to be.”
This was the first Joe had heard of the delay of game proficiency.
It’s an ugly stat, but it’s unclear whether Jameis has improved in that area, or how Ryan Fitzpatrick’s 14 games in a Bucs uniform affected the numbers. So Joe would need to know more to render a judgement.
One thing Joe does know about delay of game calls: Jameis was spared an interception this season on the opening drive (you guessed it!) in New Orleans, when he looked for Scotty Miller on 3rd-and-6 and found a guy wearing a Saints jersey. The pick was waved off because of delay of game. Good job, Jameis!
Tannenbaum added that quarterback Teddy Bridgewater and the Bucs’ underrated defense is a recipe for success in Tampa.
Emmanuel Acho stood firmly in Jameis’ corner and wants to see him improve.
“Cut the picks to 15 and you’re still talking about a phenomenal quarterback,” Acho said.
February 18th, 2020 at 10:28 am
Blah blah blah………. Yeah sure pay him 30 million….. good entertainment… Fans love him …. stadium is full on gameday………. Its all good!!!!!!
February 18th, 2020 at 10:30 am
Someone please tell Acho that JayMiss had NEVER had < 18 turnovers per season in 5 NFL seasons.
And that was with him missing 3 games to suspension and 2 more to injury/ benching.
Get real; JayMiss IS a human turnover machine.
Peace, out.
February 18th, 2020 at 10:31 am
Jameis is the only hope the bay has simple as that
February 18th, 2020 at 10:33 am
I don’t need to know more to render a judgment. I’ve seen 5 years of JW and to be hopeful he will cut his ints in half is delusional. When will the Bucs show some brass and move on?
February 18th, 2020 at 10:37 am
Could the fact that he couldn’t read the scoreboard have anything to do with delay of games? Not defending Jameis but being able to look up at the scoreboard seems kind of important.
February 18th, 2020 at 10:38 am
@joe
Fitz did effect the numbers!!!!!!!!!!
According nflpenalties dot com.
2016 delay of game penalties tied 6th with 6
2017 delay of game penalties tied 2nd with 7
2018 delay of game penalties tied 13th with 4
2019 delay of game penalties tied 4th with 6
So if in 2018 with Fitz splitting a little under half the season, is another category that surpassed all others!!!!!!!!!! Same with yards and passing TD’s!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The “real ” fans know that the sheep, blameless apologist and joe are the one’s that need lasik!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Go bucs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
February 18th, 2020 at 10:39 am
Acho…33 total tackles in his entire NFL career? Yeah… when he talks, we listen…LOL.
February 18th, 2020 at 10:40 am
self awareness, field awareness….the guy has zero awareness……
might have something to do with sacks, fumbles, delay of game, interceptions….
who give a damn if he threw 10k jump ball yards. he’s still not a good QB!
February 18th, 2020 at 10:41 am
Lavonte has had more than in in two games, hasn’t he?
February 18th, 2020 at 10:43 am
NPRSageBoy. Says:
Someone please tell Acho that JayMiss had NEVER had (had never had?)
Like the real NPR you’re boring and biased…not to mention grammatically challenged.
February 18th, 2020 at 10:44 am
Robert..has been said that someone will likely hit the 6 or 7 thousand mark in “todays game”… But then, Fran Tarkenton never had 5 thousand, so he sucks.
February 18th, 2020 at 10:51 am
Instead of clutch, JW has made himself out to be ‘choker’ because of his many games throwing picks to give the other team the win…
He is rapidly concluding the title of ‘Coach killer’ now on his 3rd coach and making that one look bad this past season…
I can only wander if this isn’t the result of ‘participation trophy movement’…
‘oh, bless his heart, he’s trying and he seems to want it so bad… The other players on the team will understand.. Winning isn’t everything…. Let’s give this kid another season!’
February 18th, 2020 at 10:51 am
Actually he had less than 15 INT for 2 years
2019 30
2018 14
2017 11
2016 18
2015 15
But everyone decision is already made up. Just wish the Bucs would move forward either signing or not signing so we can move on as well. Personally I think he needs another year in BA’s system. The INT’s will go down. They have gone up for every QB in the system the first year and down the next years. That is the same with Payton, Big Ben and Carson.
But again my humble opinion.
February 18th, 2020 at 10:54 am
So the delay of game penalties kept Jameis’ interceptions down.
February 18th, 2020 at 11:00 am
@Bucs50
If your qb can’t see the scoreboard, he shouldn’t be your qb…
But if he has lost his contacts or something is going on with his vision but he is well enough to play (and not completely blind without them), you would have his running back or full back behind him to know that time is running out…
February 18th, 2020 at 11:03 am
idiaznet Says:
“Actually he had less than 15 INT for 2 years”
Stop it with the facts…it doesn’t fit the JBF comment section narrative of made up fake news!
February 18th, 2020 at 11:05 am
joe….
can we please get an article on the list of excuses for JW.
2nd though that might need to be in paperback.
February 18th, 2020 at 11:05 am
But those delay of game penalties are a result of the defense and the kicker. 🤦🏻‍♂️
February 18th, 2020 at 11:08 am
This is one thing I might actually buy the poor vision excuse on lol…
February 18th, 2020 at 11:16 am
111 turnovers in 5 years is 22 a year average.
Can’t forget the fumbles…
Jameis just completed his 5th unsuccessful season in the NFL.
But he will be back. Very likely it will be unfortunate for the Bucs.
February 18th, 2020 at 11:17 am
@Buc1987
“Actually he had less than 15 INT for 2 years”
Those 2 years were when the Qb was Suspended, Benched, injured, and was fumbling before he could throw an INT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Narrative indeed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And for the record, I hope that jay-miss does get a one year deal, just so the below avg gm and ole stale biscuit are fired and full rebuild can start fresh!!!!!!!!!!!!! No need to make decisions and moves that the next regime will have to deal with!!!!!!!!!!!!!
go bucs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
February 18th, 2020 at 11:17 am
idiaznet Says:
February 18th, 2020 at 10:51 am
Actually he had less than 15 INT for 2 years
2019 30
2018 14
2017 11
2016 18
2015 15
*************************************************************
wrong!!!!!!….check your stats…….lol….
in 2017 he missed 3games due to a shoulder injury….
in 2018 he had to sit 3games…..
in 2018 big ben led the nfl with 18picks in 16games…..JW had 14 in 13games…..very possible he couldve led the NFL in INTs back to back years……
JW has only thrown less than 15INTs in a full 16game season 1(ONCE) n his career…..
and folks think he’ll throw 15 or less in 2020….lol….yeah…ok….keep dreaming!!!!!!
GO BUCS!!!!!!!
February 18th, 2020 at 11:17 am
Put an asterisk on those two seasons with less than 15 picks. JW missed multiple games in both those seasons due to injury/suspension. Facts are awesome, especially when used with context.
February 18th, 2020 at 11:19 am
I’ll render judgement… move on from JW and look to the future.
February 18th, 2020 at 11:22 am
It’s so simple, even 813broccoli can see it!!!!!!!!!!!! And for years he thought that a quarterback was a refund!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
go bucs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
February 18th, 2020 at 11:23 am
88 interceptions and 23 lost fumbles.
The most lost fumbles by any player in that 5 year period. Not just QB…
Anyone arguing that Jameis doesn’t have a turnover problem is simply pissing into the wind.
Just cut down the interceptions to 15…
Sounds good in theory.
How?
February 18th, 2020 at 11:26 am
I blame delay of games on coaching. Last few years have been so bad on this.
February 18th, 2020 at 11:33 am
Could the delay of games be in Part because he’s near sighted and can’t see the board
February 18th, 2020 at 11:42 am
“Cut the interceptions in half” – LOL!!!
Wow. Why didn’t I think of this! What a freaking football genius. Hey guys I found an easy fix to our QB problem. Just have Jamies Winston cut his interceptions in half. It’s as easy as that.
February 18th, 2020 at 11:45 am
I’m to the point that I don’t care what the Bucs do with him. My feeling is that Arians will do the best he can with him if he’s extended. If he’s thrown off the ship, we’ll make due with a new QB.
I’m actually sick of talking about it, but I will say this: I’m trying to think of a player in this league who’s ever divided a fanbase more. I’m struggling to think of one.
February 18th, 2020 at 11:46 am
realist
stop with the fake news BS!!!!!!!
you just started to see the light once your mother stopped bending over!!!!!!
that dark, lonely, smelly, hairy place was not your basement!!!!!!!!…..thats how you entered the world!!!!!!
GO BUCS!!!!!!!
February 18th, 2020 at 11:52 am
mark2001 Says:
February 18th, 2020 at 10:39 am
Acho…33 total tackles in his entire NFL career? Yeah… when he talks, we listen…LOL.
————————-
Thirty-three more tackles than you’ll ever have. I’m not sure how clueless fans can possibly question a former player’s intelligence by bringing up their playing careers. There are tons of respected analysts that never played a down of high school football and yet if they say something that they agree with it’s all good… but then a guy that has actually played the game their entire careers says something they don’t agree with… well, the guy’s a bum…
By all accounts, Bruce Arians wasn’t a great collegiate QB, didn’t even get a shot at the NFL as a player… but he still knows far more than 99.9% of the people in the NFL about professional football… how could that be?
Conversely, Matt Millen was a highly successful and cerebral football player that couldn’t construct a decent NFL roster if you spotted him six All-Pros, five #1 draft picks, and a handful of Pro Bowlers.
February 18th, 2020 at 11:52 am
Just like Dominick they wonder why they can’t a sniff at running another NFL Franchise they will both be telling us how much Trash-iota deserve another chance because he is such a nice kid and you don’t have worry about him lol!
February 18th, 2020 at 11:58 am
Mr. 5,000 first 4 years in the league was under poor coaching, does anybody wish to not concede that as fact! COACH KILLER please sit your * down with that nonsense…Lovie, whome I loved neither Coach K had a clue as to what to do with Mr. 5,000… I advocate for Mr. 5,000 and they say when it’s time for a new contract “get every dime”….4 weeks ’till free angency…get her done BUCS
February 18th, 2020 at 12:12 pm
idiaznet: I’m pretty sure Winston didn’t play a full season both years…
February 18th, 2020 at 12:16 pm
Part of the delay of game is because both coaches deigned their offenses to wait until the last second to try to get the enemy to jump off sides.
February 18th, 2020 at 12:19 pm
Bucs fans should rejoice that the guy who leads the league in INTs by a HUGELY WIDE margin also leads in delay of game. That is, “INT disease” is a fatal one, but when you buy precious time by “delaying” the end game, that can’t be bad.
February 18th, 2020 at 12:21 pm
yeah fitzpatrick is the reason jameis has turned the ball over for five years and we keep losing when jameis plays. blame fitzpatrick, a guy who was a great teammate and adequate backup. sounds reasonable.
February 18th, 2020 at 12:24 pm
idiaznet Says:
February 18th, 2020 at 10:51 am
. The INT’s will go down. They have gone up for every QB in the system the first year and down the next years. That is the same with Payton, Big Ben and Carson.
But again my humble opinion.
__________________________
WINSTON LIAR!
Big Ben’s INT’s WENT UP IN HIS 2nd YEAR UNDER ARIANS!
DO NOT BELIEVE WINSTON LOVERS. THEY LIE! PATHETIC HUMANS!
EVEN BETTER, BIG BEN’S INTS WENT DOWN IN HIS 1ST YEAR UNDER ARIANS!
WINSTON KNOB GOBBLERS LIE FOR THEIR IDOL!
February 18th, 2020 at 12:24 pm
Bucs to delay game penalties on fgs and punts
February 18th, 2020 at 12:24 pm
Turnovers and penalties have killed team for years
Dumbest team in the league year after year
February 18th, 2020 at 12:26 pm
MANNING’S INTs ACTUALLY WENT DOWN IN HIS FIRST YEAR UNDER ARIANS TO HIS PRIOR YEAR!!!!!
NO MORE LIES!
February 18th, 2020 at 12:32 pm
The Jameis stories have gotten old and the responses are the same over and over, mostly insulting each other for their opinions. I know Joe likes the readership uptick, but how about a few breaks while we wait for a decision? Until then, it’s all just inconsequential chatter.
February 18th, 2020 at 12:40 pm
I would also put the intentional grounding penalties in this developemental
category.
February 18th, 2020 at 12:43 pm
Please please bring Bridgewater to Tampa…
We are ballin if we do that.
February 18th, 2020 at 12:49 pm
Another day and NO announcement from the Bucs about moving on at the QB position and another day some “fans” having to hope the next day brings the news they so covet……lol
February 18th, 2020 at 12:54 pm
“Cut the picks to 15 and you’re still talking about a phenomenal quarterback,” Acho said”
Ha Ha… Cut off the floppy ears, add some fins, and dachshunds make might excellent dolphins.
February 18th, 2020 at 12:55 pm
Even I would like to see an improved Jameis back on the team. The problem is that there is no reason to expect improvement.
Last year was his audition year and we know how that went. The rest of the team progressed and Jameis didn’t. He could have already signed that $100 contract if he could play like a halfway competent QB.
Those last two games took the wind out of my sails for his return.
Just say no to Jameis.
February 18th, 2020 at 1:07 pm
idiaznet Says:
February 18th, 2020 at 10:51 am
Actually he had less than 15 INT for 2 years
2019 30
2018 14
2017 11
2016 18
2015 15
———————————————————————————
These numbers are accurate for the years listed.
But the number of games played and total passes thrown affect those numbers, as already pointed out.
That is why I like to look at the TD and INT percentage, i.e. what percent of passes end up as TDs, and what percent end up as INTs, and NOT the absolute numbers so much. IMHO, as repeatedly pointed out, you need both high TD% and low INT%, to be a successful QB. So let’s look at Winston’s five seasons by those percentages.
2015: TD% 4.1 INT% 2.8
2016: TD% 4.9 INT% 3.2
2017: TD% 4.3 INT% 2.5
2018: TD% 5.0 INT% 3.7
2019: TD% 5.3 INT% 4.8
Now, everyone can share their opinion on these percentages, and any trends that seem applicable to them.
To me however, it seems that as Jameis gets more careful with the ball (the INT% goes down), but that the TD% also goes down substantially.
OTOH, when Jameis gets more reckless with the ball and throws caution to the wind, then the TD% (and yards) go up, but the INT% also goes up.
Unfortunately, the “sweet spot” is in the middle ……………….. a high enough
TD% to score points, but a low enough INT% to keep the opponents from scoring more.
A few examples:
Fitzpatrick 2018: TD% 6.9% but INT% 4.9%…… not good enough.
Derek Carr 2019: TD% 4.1% and INT% only 1.6% …… still not good enough.
A simple metric is TD/INT ratio ……… should be 2:1 or more, at a minimum.
Subtract the two percentages………. TD% – INT% > 3.0 defines playoff caliber QB play in my opinion.
Last example: Lamar Jackson TD% 9.0 – INT% 1.5% = 7.5 = NFL MVP
tickrdr
BTW: JW3 has NEVER had a TD/INT ratio > 2:1 .
JW3’s BEST year of TD%-INT% was ONLY 1.8 .
February 18th, 2020 at 1:16 pm
Great information, tickrdr!
Thanks for pointing out percentages.
In Jameis’ 5 years his TD % has climbed 1.2%, but it was at the expense of a +2% in INT.
Let’s get a new QB!
February 18th, 2020 at 1:22 pm
Good stuff Doc !
February 18th, 2020 at 1:22 pm
How about a few competitors:
Jared Goff
2017: TDs 28 (5.9%) INTs 7 (1.5%) = playoff QB
2018: TDs 32 (5.7%) INTs 12 (2.1%) = playoff QB
2019: TDs 22 (3.5%) INTs 16 (2.6%) = watching from home
Look at other contemporaries such as Watson, Trubisky, Wentz, Mayfield, and even other guys like Jones,Darnold and Rosen. Watch their TD% and INT% as they develop or not, and you decide if they are improving or not.
The good ones will have their TD% rise while their INT% falls.
tickrdr
BTW2: Looking at aggregate numbers can be misleading. Look for that single season which can be a harbinger of a player’s future.
February 18th, 2020 at 1:33 pm
Kaepernick has the 6th highest TD:INt ratio of all time.
February 18th, 2020 at 1:34 pm
Adam Lakers Carolla: Are you an English teacher or a JayMiss apologist?
As far as grammar goes, I’ve seen a lot worse on this site.
As far as JayMiss goes; he has no peers when it comes to turnovers.
Turn out the lights; the party’s over.
Peace, out.
February 18th, 2020 at 1:55 pm
Well, this is something the LASIK surgery might actually help with.
He probably can’t see the clock.
February 18th, 2020 at 1:57 pm
Buc1987 … Tannenbaum made the statement that Jameis has led the NFL in TURNOVERS for the past 5 years, not that he led the league in INTERCEPTIONS. Here are Jameis’ stats in terms of TURNOVERS (INTs plus Fumbles Lost):
o 2019: INTs-30 … Fumbles Lost-5 … Total Turnovers-35 … Team Turnovers-41
o 2018: INTs-14 … Fumbles Lost-3 … Total Turnovers-17 … Team Turnovers-35
o 2017: INTs-11 … Fumbles Lost-7 … Total Turnovers-18 … Team Turnovers-27
o 2016: INTs-18 … Fumbles Lost-6 … Total Turnovers-24 … Team Turnovers-27
o 2015: INTs-15 … Fumbles Lost-2 … Total Turnovers-17 … Team Turnovers-28
Up until 2019, Jameis had averaged 14.5 INTs per year and 4.5 Fumbles Lost per year for an average of 19 Turnovers per year. Obviously that got blown out of the water in 2019 with his 35 Turnovers. His 2015-2018 numbers weren’t great, but they were relatively consistent. And at slightly less than 1.2 Turnovers per game average for those 4 years that’s something that most halfway decent defenses could live with.
Whether Jameis led the league in turnovers each year like Tannebaum contended I have no idea. He did lead in 2019 for sure.
February 18th, 2020 at 2:00 pm
Crackerball … “Cut off the floppy ears, add some fins, and dachshunds make might excellent dolphins.” EXCELLENT!!! LMAO.
February 18th, 2020 at 2:02 pm
One stat about JW that perplexes me: in the RED zone, his TD/INT ratio is 19:1, which belies choking
February 18th, 2020 at 2:11 pm
An alarming red flag… here we go!
Where were the Bucs when Winston threw his ints in 2019?
Own 1-20 yard line: 8 ints
Own 21-50 yard line: 16 ints
So 24 of his 30 ints were thrown within their own territory. That, my friends, is alarming! This is a recipe for disaster. This naturally leads to 121 POINTS SCORED OFF OF WINSTON TURNOVERS!!! This NEEDS to be cleaned up if the Bucs tend to make a run for a playoff spot.
Here we go with the “you’re a hater/troll” comments. Numbers don’t lie!
February 18th, 2020 at 2:35 pm
“But the delay of game is a lack of awareness, and he has not developed where he needs to be.”
____________________________________________________________
This could very well be attributed to Jameis’s poor vision. The fact that he couldn’t read scoreboards or see the clock.
February 18th, 2020 at 2:39 pm
Its sooo boring… make it stop….
February 18th, 2020 at 2:57 pm
If you take more snaps than anyone else… wouldn’t it make sense that you have more penalties than anyone else?
Its like if you throw the ball more than anyone else, throw the deep ball way more than anyone else, have 1000 more air yards than anyone else, you might just have more INTs than anyone else.
Shocking stuff… horrifying.
February 18th, 2020 at 3:40 pm
Bottom line is wins and losses. Winston is NOT a winner
February 18th, 2020 at 3:54 pm
Tannenbaum isn’t a GM anymore for a reason. I know that every player is one good lick away from a career ending injury, but Teddy could have lost his leg! Arian’s offense opens up quarterbacks to more hits and I just don’t see this dude making it through an entire season. I think that we should keep Jameis for one more year, but I’m not gonna lose any sleep if we get another one. Bridgewater is not the answer.
February 18th, 2020 at 3:56 pm
rod
if you run the ball more than anyone else, wouldnt it make sense that you have more penalties or yards than anyone else?….
H3LL NO!!!!!
the team that has the most rushes doesnt necessarily have the league rushing leader…..
for example: browns had more rushing attps than the cowboys but the cowboys had more yards….
by your logic JW shouldve had 40TDs not 33 since he passed so much…pat mahomes had 26TDs with less than 10INTs…..
continue making excuses tho….lol…its getting cute….lol…
GO BUCS!!!!!!
February 18th, 2020 at 4:25 pm
Will we have Jameis doing an uber commercial after he get’s his big contract?
A Long John Silver seafood commercial?
Maybe he can do a commercial with Johnny Football, saying something to the effect….”You know it is easy to pump up the stats with Mike Evans on the receiving end, don’t you Johnny?” Then Johnny can say, “If I had him playing WR professionally on my team, I could throw as many Ints as you do and still be collecting a paycheck.”
Big money to be made.
February 18th, 2020 at 4:28 pm
He is what he is folks. There’s no sugar-coating it. As a coach, you either live with the turnovers and get better in other areas, OR, you don’t and move on!
These are the only two scenarios, IMO.
February 18th, 2020 at 4:32 pm
Jean.. you might be right about his vision…but that is no explanation of why he waited so long to correct it. After all, it isn’t as if he is a child that can’t express himself about his sight issues.
February 18th, 2020 at 4:35 pm
Bucsfanman…see your point…but against good teams, those turnovers will always be the kiss of death and inability to ever have consecutive playoff victories. You can never be good enough to overcome that.
February 18th, 2020 at 5:25 pm
I was going to jest about it, but he probably really couldn’t read the numbers on the play clock.
February 18th, 2020 at 8:30 pm
Hey Joe (and other nuthuggers) do you REALLy think that if jaymiss were a good qb there would be all the back and forth about him? He’s an underachieving qb. Period
February 18th, 2020 at 8:32 pm
Hey Joe (and other nuthuggers) do you REALLy think that if jaymiss were a good qb there would be all the back and forth about him? He’s an underachieving qb. Period .Accept the truth
February 18th, 2020 at 8:40 pm
MTM Says:
February 18th, 2020 at 11:05 am
But those delay of game penalties are a result of the defense and the kicker. 🤦🏻‍♂️
………………..
And the wind, and the hot dog vendors.
February 19th, 2020 at 6:20 am
mark2001- Therein lies the rub! If you can’t trust him in crucial situations, it’s time to move on.
February 19th, 2020 at 6:32 am
In summation….YOU CAN’T FIX STUPID
February 19th, 2020 at 8:15 am
You do know that McGoo JW could not see the time clock in the far end zone.
February 19th, 2020 at 11:07 am
@Tickrdr
That was some eye opening info man. Thanks.
I do have a feeling Jameis will be back though, so at least the argument about the 2nd year in BA’s system will be ironed out.
I HOPE the picks go down, but I’m not FEELING they will!!