“Bucs Beating Bucs”

July 26th, 2019

Explains how to win.

There are two things for which Joe will always remember former coach Dirk Koetter.

The first is how he boasted to his team to open Training Camp 2017, as caught on “Hard Knocks,” how the Bucs had the most talent since he arrived in Tampa. The other is Koetter memory is from February 2018. Sitting at a table at the NFL Combine in Indianapolis, Koetter bemoaned so many close games lost.

His successor, Bucco Bruce Arians, agreed yesterday. Arians cut to the chase in explaining why the Bucs lost 22 games the past two years.

In short, he said the Bucs beat themselves.

“We won games in the last two minutes,” Arians said of how he got the moribund Cardinals to 10 wins in his first year in Arizona.

“When you go back and look at those 5-11 records [of the Bucs], there are a lot of close games. They either didn’t play smart enough to win or missed a kick… had a penalty or a busted assignment. It was Bucs beating Bucs. Eliminate that.

“It wasn’t talent. Just play better in the final two minutes of the half and final two minutes of the game and [the Bucs would have been] at least 8-8. Make a kick.”

Earlier this year Arians noted the Bucs had enough talent. He became the third NFL coach in two years to say that. First, of course was Koetter. Then Father Dungy said how he had “no doubt” the Bucs had the talent to be a playoff team.

Sooner or later, Bucs fans are going to get tired about hearing how the team has talent if the losses continue to mount.

Then you have apathy. No one wants that.

24 Responses to ““Bucs Beating Bucs””

  1. Harry in Costa Rica Says:

    I do not think Koetter failed in all phases of Bucs football. For example, the passing game was awesome, and I do not expect to see the Bucs greatly surpass the stats from the past two years.

    But, the running game was not coached up well (as I pointed out before, D-Martin went from 2.9ypc with the Bucs to 4.2ypc with the Raiders). As to the defense, Koetter expressly admitting he was hands off (how the he11 does the head “leader” of any team or company be allowed to be hands off of anything?!). I do not believe these 2 areas will take much for become vastly better. In making them better, the Bucs (and Jameis) improve dramatically.

    Go Bucs!

  2. DooshLaRue Says:

    Bucco B has been mentioning those missed kicks quite a bit lately.
    He’s right though. We could have had many more wins over the last couple of years had it not been for our sh!t show kicking game.

    Hopefully Gay can handle the pressure because I think Santos isn’t going to be here much longer.

  3. Idianet Says:

    Too late, based on this board and site so far this year. This has to be the most depressing year for a fan. Given all the negative comments people are making before the team has even had a chance to really practice.

    I’m surprised there isn’t a line on the sunshine skyway each night. Led by some of the Joe writers. With McCoy leaving, Jameis still here, no star running back and a real lack of understanding a 3-4 defense. (Pressure does not come from the D-Line)

    Don’t get me wrong I love this site. But this year I have had to take a step back and hold off because of the path of some of these articles and most of the comments.

    But just my humble opinion

  4. Tampabaybucfan Says:

    Losing late in close games usually comes down to coaching……yes, it’s the players not executing and making mistakes at crucial times…..especially the kicker missing kicks, but the coaching usually puts a team in that position….poor game management & game planning.
    Clock management was a problem for the Bucs and very poor play at the end of the half on both ends of the ball.
    Look for far more discipline with this set of coaches.

  5. OneBuc55 Says:

    Idianet you’re right…

    I’ve been saying it for years now…. since Jameis has been in the league the kicking game has cost us at least 12 games in the last 4 years…

    Also many like to pen all the loses on Jameis but too many times to count he’s put this team in position to win the game with a few minutes left in the game only to watch Geraldini and the defense fold like a lawn chair… Finally there’s hope because we finally have a coach that gets it ..

  6. Clw JB Says:

    The past 3 years proves you cannot over-promote anyone in this life. The only thing we did well is what DK was good at – the passing game – EVERYTHING else SUCKED!!!!!

    In BA I trust

  7. Clw JB Says:

    In 2 yrs under BA, David Johnson caught 116 passes prior to getting hurt in 2017

    I think we may see a LOT more passing to the RB’s than DK ever wanted to do

  8. DB55 Says:

    All this team needs is a little love. Maybe more than a little.

  9. D-Rome Says:


  10. Loyaltotheend Section 312 Says:

    2018 Bucs offense 9th most penalties
    2018 Bucs defense 2nd most penalties

    Can’t be awful on defense and give away free yards and field position

    Bucs gotta play smarter especially if they aren’t that talented

  11. 813bucboi Says:

    been saying for the past 2years the problem has been coaching not talent…..

    GO BUCS!!!!

  12. Defense Rules Says:

    “Arians noted the Bucs had enough talent. He became the third NFL coach in two years to say that.” Uhhh, what do you EXPECT a HC to say Joe? ‘Oh ya, our guys really stink”.

    Bucs have generally have had decent staring lineup, but have had very little DEPTH for years. When injuries hit (and they always do) we were plugging in guys who had no business even being in the NFL, much less starting on Sunday. This year our DEPTH looks to be a tad better, although it’ll require very strong coaching to bring our youngsters up to a reasonable level.

  13. #1bucsfan Says:

    @813. I’m going to take a little line from realist. As the real fans would say (that’s the little line lol) an know it’s bin the lack of coaching an development this team lacks

  14. Couch Fan Says:

    Ive been saying this for years and its the main reason the Bucs are so hard to watch without getting frustrated. Its not the other teams beating us, its us beating ourselves. People say its talent/depth. I call BS. Good coaching over comes talent/depth issues. People say Talent trumps coaching. I call BS on that to. You can be the most talented player in the world but if you dont know what you’re doing, what good are you? You need a balance of both. You dont need the most talented team in the league if you have good coaching. Hopefully this year we finally get that coaching we need.

  15. 813bucboi Says:


    coaches speak the truth about their team and players all the time…..LOL…

    i dont know why you think BA is lying or not telling the truth about his team or players……BA is a straight shooter…..he came out and said, GMC aint the player he was 4-5years ago when the media asked about him…..what was he suppose to say?….GMC is great and we’re trying to find a way to keep him…..

    hell no!!!!….coaches speak the truth all the time….

    for example:

    After practice on Friday, new Broncos coach Vic Fangio gave a brutally honest assessment of Denver’s rookie quarterback.
    “He’s not a QB yet,” Fangio said”He’s a hard-throwing pitcher who doesn’t know how to pitch yet.”

    what was Vic suppose to say….the kid is doing great…..

    when BA was asked about VHG not being able to practice, he spoke the truth….he said his mindset wasnt where it needed to be to practice…..he didnt make things up….he couldve easily said, we gave him a veteran day off….

    injuries will happen….and when they do, GOOD coaches make adjustments…..something smitty never did which only made things on defense worse….chargers were flooded with injuries to their LB core…..what did their DC do?…he made adjustments……he switched things up….he put the best 11 on the field by using more DB’s instead of staying in the same defense with players that werent as good…..

    thats what good coaches do…..and i can pretty much guarantee you, even tho anthony lynn has an offensive background, he was in defensive meetings helping the DC craft a plan…..

    talent has been their…..coaching has not…..depth wouldnt have been bad if the DC knew how to make adjustments….

    GO BUCS!!!!!

  16. 813bucboi Says:

    couch fan says: People say its talent/depth. I call BS. Good coaching over comes talent/depth issues. People say Talent trumps coaching. I call BS on that to.


    GO BUCS!!!!!!

  17. Bucsfanman Says:

    It’s funny how we want to put so much blame on kicking for losing games. Sure, we could have won a few more games if the kicker makes a FG. HOWEVER, you could just as easily say scoring TDs would have won us more games as well. Perspective.
    If you’re relying on the kicking game, FGs, to win you games you’ve already lost. Score TDs, that’s how you balance poor kicking.

  18. Tye Says:

    Maybe this team does have talent.. Maybe they are tired of the qb’s turnovers so they have collectively come to the same mind-set – why bother! JW is like having an opponents player disguised as your teammate constantly sabotaging all your efforts..

  19. Don_RyJo(e) Says:

    And THAT’S why I’m optimistic for the coming season. ALL NFL players are the top 0.01% of athletes in the world. ALL NFL players, even the lowly 2nd or 3rd string guys are insanely talented. So I agree wholeheartedly that the Bucs CURRENTLY have enough talent on their team to make the playoffs. All that’s been lacking is competent coaching and accountability. BA looks like he’ll bring both.

  20. Dapostman Says:

    Tye has WDS. The struggle is real.

  21. Oregonbucsfan Says:

    Coaching or talent- -that’s like the old quandary “nature or nurture” (A.K.A. hereditary vs. environment). What will it be this year? If it’s another 5-6 win season will we all admit the talent wasn’t there? Or, is B.A. just another Lovie clone?
    Let’s face it–until the Bucs put together a winning season they have neither.

    Indanet deplores the negativism found on this site, but what does he expect:
    “Bucs Loaded for Super Bowl Run”? Let’s get a good season under our belt before we start ordering post-season tickets. Until we actually get out of the cellar we are actually, “Cellar Dwellers Look to Improve.” That should be the headline.

  22. BucE Says:

    I agree if these guys could have put together complete games and stop beating themselves , A kick here and a solid 4th Qrt defense could’ve produced a few 8-8 seasons . Coaching in the secondary and bad picks falls on the GM .

  23. Bob in Valrico Says:

    Good talent rarely beats itself as Bucs have done for years. So if a coach has
    a roster with players prone to these errors. It is a handicap. So lets take the coaches and players out of the equation. Somebody has to take the blame for
    the level of talent and it is not just the coaches,its the GM. We lost more players due to injury than other team last year. on defense. I hope this year ,proves to the doubters that talent can make all the difference in the world. You still need good coaching and a good front office. All three have to mesh to be successful.

  24. Bob in Valrico Says:

    Agree with Fanman
    If I had my way kickers would only come on the field for the last two minutes of the two halfs. We have to get in the endzone more to keep up with the better teams in the league and our division.