Jameis 20th Best

January 5th, 2019

There’s a well done weekly ranking of all starting quarterbacks at NFL.com that is informative and a shred entertaining.

It’s a pet project of Around The League chief Gregg Rosenthal. Joe enjoys soaking it in regularly but very rarely shares the findings here.

But now that the season is complete, the final rankings are a more interesting look. Wedged behind Mitch Trubisky and just ahead of Marcus Mariota is America’s Quarterback, Jameis Winston, ranked at No. 20 overall.

Winston finished in the top 10 in yards per attempt for the third year out of four, ranked eighth in QBR ahead of Jared Goff and 15th in DVOA. Those numbers seem to miss the delay of games taken, the situational struggles in the red zone and the throws that can’t be explained postgame by someone who plays with a high football IQ on so many other snaps. Winston started his career as a top-20 QB and hasn’t made much progress since then.
2018 stats: 11 games | 64.6 pct | 2,992 pass yds | 7.9 ypa | 19 pass TD | 14 INT | 281 rush yds | 1 rush TD
Jameis ranked 17th in the NFL last year, per Rosenthal’s assessment. Joe didn’t argue with that, and Joe really can’t argue with this year’s ranking. But in both seasons, Jameis finished much stronger than he started, which just illustrates the inconsistency through his four-year career.
It’s also why he’ll get a fifth season with the Bucs, an absolute rarity among four-year starters out of college who never reached the playoffs. Retired Texans QB David Carr was the last one in that boat.
Man, it’s hard to win with a garbage defense, an inconsistent quarterback, no running game, and special teams that aren’t special. Yet still, many Bucs fans think this team is close.

71 Responses to “Jameis 20th Best”

  1. tnikkichristy Says:

    Team is close with the addition of a productive runner, an additional pass rusher, and at least one shut down corner. Scheme can fix the o line.

  2. Duthsty Rhothdes Says:

    Your last paragraph is basically like other than that how was the play mrs. lincoln. How is jason licht still employed?

  3. Lordcornelius Says:

    Considering his early complete melt downs this seems about right.

    Would be interesting to see the post-benching rankings where he had 14 TD to 4 InT, of which 2 were not on him

  4. Fred W Mcneil Says:

    Maybe the new coach will fix things.

  5. Buc4evr Says:

    Fix the defense, fix the o-line, and this team is good for 4 more wins next season. Even with an inconsistent QB and kicker.

  6. Scotty in Fat Antonio Says:

    How many of Jameis’s yards were in GARBAGE time?

  7. Zwak Says:

    Next year will be a very important year for Winston, let’s hope for the best!

  8. Easy Says:

    That’s simply not good enough for a number 1 pick.

  9. sharkiebucfan Says:

    Where would we be with a decent running game and defense? Not reading this article that is for sure.

  10. MHBuc25 Says:

    Scotty in Fat Antonio Says:
    January 5th, 2019 at 11:07 am
    How many of Jameis’s yards were in GARBAGE time?


    I’ll be patiently waiting for one of the Joes or a Bucs Mob senior leader to answer this one for you. This website brought to you by Licht and Winston Inc.

  11. Bird Says:

    Spot on

  12. Tampabaybucfan Says:

    Give Jameis an average running game and an average defense and he will be top 10……

    We have far greater problems than QB…..we need to improve the Oline and Dline and Dbacks…….

  13. Patrick Says:

    We’re basically in the same spot as we were last year and asking the same questions. This franchise just knows how WASTE time and give their fans a disappointing, inferior product every year.

  14. Cgmaster27v Says:

    Here come the stupid garbage yards argument. You guys do realize outside of the bears, the jucs weren’t blown out. And his qbr is number 8 in the NFL, which DOES include how close the game is. A little research is goes a long way to keeping the trolls looking stupid.

  15. Tbbucs3 Says:

    I expect Jameis to have a break out year under BRUCE ARIANS especially after playing in Dirks QB UNfriendly System the past 4 years. Things will really start to slow down for him.

    And if he can have great offseason with 0 off field troubles or distractions and come back ready for the 1st game with a clear mind, he will thrive.

  16. Prada..sec147 Says:

    Joe we are close open your eyes !

  17. SB Says:

    So B Grimes is a gonner. Good riddance I say after reading the article.
    You sign a contract you honor it. Feeling disrespected for being told to do what he signed up for???????

  18. Jim Says:

    Sounds about right. Building up the team with good balance should be the focus going forth…

  19. Old School Athlete Says:

    I think this is a fair assessment. If the new scheme is built around his strengths more than the last one, he will move up on that list considerably.

  20. ben Says:

    go ahead ..after 4 years and a #1 pick ..make yor excuses for Winston.

  21. Kalind Says:

    There’s no reasonable person who thinking Jared Goof is a better Qb. That’s silly. Rather have Foles? No. Rather have Jackson? No.

    But these teams are in the playoffs? Why? Weak divisions mixed with easy schedules mixed with running games and defenses who can stop people.

    Jameis isn’t the problem. He never has been. Please note that Aaron Rodgers, Cam, Ryan, Mariota, Roethlisberger, Stafford, Cousins, Eli aren’t in the playoffs either. QB is important, but it’s not a cure-all and CANT overcome glaring Defensive issues. It simply can’t.

    Jameis should be resigned this offseason. That way he won’t press this year, and he’ll be CHEAP. Let’s plan for the future. If he dominates this year, we’re up a creek cap wise. Do it now.

  22. Dapostman Says:

    Same posters everyday on all Winston articles. Some no matter what he does they don’t want him. Others make excuses for bad play. The facts are,

    he has served his 3 game suspension which happened almost 3 years ago.

    he improved in 2017 after his shoulder injury

    he regressed in early 2018 for whatever reason you want to tell yourself

    he improved again the last 6 1/2 games in 2018.

    he has played his best ball of his career the last 6 1/2 games of 2018. All his stats seem close except for INTERCEPTIONS which are down to 2 realistic ones in the last stretch. Face it Koetter did Winston a favor by benching him with tough love. He looked like he finally ‘got it’. A better coach, a better defense, a better kicker and Winston will be closer to the top 10.

  23. Scotty in Fat Antonio Says:

    Hilarious comments on an article by Florio this morning about the Buccaneers needing to make a big splash coach hire. My favorite one so far is:

    Buccaneers hope to make a big splash

    Like a turd in the toilet

  24. Scotty in Fat Antonio Says:

    I think Jameis needs to keep away from that supposed QB whisperer duing the off season and suspension, George Whitfield. I don’t think George has done Jameis ANY favors. Here are QBs he has helped (LMAO!) so far.

    I am thinking Luck dropped him like a rock soon pretty damn quick.

    Andrew Luck
    Jameis Winston
    Johnny Manziel
    Bryce Petty
    Landry Jones
    Tajh Boyd
    Taylor Kelly
    Braxton Miller
    Connor Cook
    Logan Thomas
    EJ Manuel
    Marquise Williams
    Charlie Heller
    Austin Appleby
    Josh Allen

  25. Jmarkbuc Says:

    #1 pick who is number 20 (after 4yrs)?

    Sure he always rally’s the last quarter of the season, kinda like he rally’s the last quarter of games…

    And it’s usually just not enough.

  26. Thegregwitul Says:

    This is a fair assessment of Winston and why I want to see him play out his final season with a new coaching staff. If Winston can’t improve on his 2018 season, then I’ll assum the Bucs will have another top 10 pick, which they can use on a QB in what appears to be a loaded QB class come 2020.

    I’m hoping Winston can put it all together next season.

  27. Scotty in Fat Antonio Says:

    I think George Whitfield has really messed Jameis up during off season workouts AND during his 3 game suspension. Look at all the QBs under Whitfield’s tutelage. Except for Luck (probably dropped him like a rock), not an allstar cast. I would love to see a story on Whitfield.

    Andrew Luck
    Jameis Winston
    Johnny Manziel
    Bryce Petty
    Landry Jones
    Tajh Boyd
    Taylor Kelly
    Braxton Miller
    Connor Cook
    Logan Thomas
    EJ Manuel
    Marquise Williams
    Charlie Heller
    Austin Appleby
    Josh Allen

  28. rrsrq Says:

    I think this off season, I could almost care less about last year stats, I am sure the incoming coach(es) may not be too worried either, it’s time for everybody to put up or shut up, coach, play, win. That’s what we deserve and need as a fan base. Dungy ball was almost boring sometimes, obliviously you get that occasional Alstott or Warrick Dunn run, but we loved leaving the game eating a W

  29. Nate Says:

    Look….truth hurts mahomes has no running game as good as hunt but he a better qb off the top

    I say you draft haskins if he is better and let him be pushed and you have your backup worst case

    There is no LT worth a top 5…..William’s from AL will be gone ….no Saquon RB bucs have to draft one PERIOD….n if you can get him why draft a scrub in the 2nd or 3rd that’s your lineman or CB picks

  30. Not there yet Says:

    Someone out there is still throwing out the garbage time yards argument? This team was got all their yards in either the first half or second half. Outside of the first two games before people forgives Koetter offense out how much of futz yards were garbage time. Such a stupid argument considering only a couple games were blowouts.

    20th best considered he was benched and suspended. I wouldn’t really worry about Winston as much as am worried for teams with Marcus Mariota and the other teams who’s quarterbacks were ranked behind that.

  31. Nate Says:

    @ scotty

    Those picks weren’t top tier / mid tier talent except for luck and wibatin …those other QBs like boyd were average to below …..

  32. Destinjohnny Says:

    It aint the coach people.
    It’s the gm

  33. Nate Says:


  34. Iron Wombat Says:

    Dirks whole offense had a red zone problem. Once saw that dumb ass run one receiver on a quick out and the other three just ran vertically into the end zone. Problem is tv hides a lot of that. MeJax was “open” on every play, but some how he had a defender on him every play. The whole route concept for that guy was run real fast in a straight line. The bigger problem with him was unless you put the ball in a target the size of a breadbox he wasn’t catching a thing.

  35. Nate Says:

    Wish we we had mayock for GM now….all the good players …coaching up that scouting dept and most of all keeping Gruden in check on bad talent…that was his only downfall especially with qbs

  36. Nate Says:

    Nate dubb Webster btw…wasnt one of em lol

  37. Tbbucs3 Says:

    I totally agree Scotty I’m Fat Antonio, have been saying that for a while now.

    That dude is a FRAUD.

  38. Jmarkbuc Says:

    Mayock will be Grudens lap dog..

    how do you think he got the job?

  39. Tbbucs3 Says:

    Jameis needs to cut George Whitfield off completely and look to someone with actual NFL quarterback experience.

  40. tickrdr Says:

    My yardstick for good QB play is the TD %age minus the INT%age.
    Nothing about wins because that is a TEAM statistic.
    Nothing about yards because that means little, if you do not score points.

    The last five NFL MVPs were all QBs, and had the following:
    Their TD percentages during their MVP years were:
    And subtracting their INT percentages yields:
    2017 Brady = 5.5% – INT 1.4% = 4.4
    2016 Ryan = 7.1% – INT 1.3% = 5.8
    2015 Newton = 7.1% – INT 2.0% = 5.1
    2014 Rodgers = 7.3% – INT 1.0% = 6.3
    2013 Manning = 8.3% – INT 1.5% = 6.8

    The majority of playoff QB’s always have a TD%age > 5%.
    The higher the difference of those two percentages, the better the QB play.
    Unfortunately you need BOTH to be a successful QB, i.e. throw enough TD passes to score points, while limiting INTs to keep from handicapping your defense. A simpler way to look at this is the TD/INT ratio, which is at least
    2:1 for any QB to be in the conversation as being GOOD, let alone GREAT.
    Despite being the #1 overall pick, in his 4th year starting, and having all of
    those “weapons for Winston”, JW3 has not had even ONE season with twice as many TDs as INTs. Which of any of the younger (in number of NFL starts, not chronological age) QBs could we trade Winston for?
    Mayfield? Watson? Trubisky? Wentz? Goff? Mahomes? All drafted after him!


    BTW: Winston’s number for TD% – INT% for this year is 1.3, which is worse than the last two years, and ties his rookie number.

  41. SB Says:

    Tickrdr bringing knowledge.

  42. SteveK Says:

    Great post, tickrdr! 👍 👍

  43. Scotty in Fat Antonio Says:

    Just in from Rapoport…Sources: The #Bucs have real interest in former #AZCardinals coach Bruce Arians for their vacant head coach position, and the interest is mutual. The two could meet soon.

    The guy is about a week off….CLOWN!

  44. tickrdr Says:

    @SB and SteveK:

    Thank you and a hat tip to both of you gentlemen.


  45. Bucs Fan #7423 Says:

    dumb dumb Jamies barely has more TDs than he does turnovers

    For God’s sakes man, we need the new HC to get Jamies a brain

    We need a savior for the savior

    Geezus Christ

  46. tickrdr Says:

    Reposted from last week, so please ignore.

    So, what number did this formula yield for the playoff QBs?
    TD% – INT% = number for each QB
    Russell Wilson = 6.6 5th seed in NFC
    Patrick Mahomes = 6.5 1st seed in AFC
    Drew Brees = 5.5 1st seed in NFC
    Philip Rivers = 3.9 5th seed in AFC
    Andrew Luck = 3.8 6th seed in AFC
    Jared Goff = 3.6 2nd seed in NFC
    Carson Wentz = 3.5 6th seed in NFC
    Deshaun Watson = 3.3 3rd seed in AFC
    Tom Brady = 3.2 2nd seed in AFC
    Mitch Trubisky = 2.7 3rd seed in NFC
    Dak Prescott = 2.7 4th seed in NFC
    Lamar Jackson = 1.7 4th seed in AFC


    So which QB should be in the conversation for league MVP, and what is his TD% minus his INT%?

  47. Geno Says:

    Good info tickrdr –

    I am glad you put that up because I am sure the Favre comparison’s were coming soon.

  48. DayOnePaul Says:

    Why is George Warhop still here?

  49. tickrdr Says:

    Three of those last five MVPs did NOT make the playoffs (Manning retired)
    So how did they perform this year compared to the playoff QBs?
    Newton = 2.3
    Ryan = 4.5
    Rodgers = 3.9
    It looks like Ryan and Rodgers certainly played at better than “playoff-level”, but agree with others that their supporting casts were not quite up to the task.
    I AGREE with everyone’s favorite “straw man” argument that it takes a TEAM to win in the NFL.
    Nevertheless, you have to have strong QB play as well to make the playoffs.
    So far at least, Winston has not been that quarterback.


  50. BringBucsBack Says:

    After four years in the same system with the same OC I, and I think most others, expected better. Next year we can add a new playbook to the list of excuses or will we lazily continue to blame his high turnover-rate, inaccuracy, forced-throws and both mental and physical meltdowns on the defense?

    Oh yes, how is he behaving off the field? Answer: no one knows…until it’s too late, of course.

    If the Bucs can upgrade, they must do it!

  51. Phillip Says:

    While the draft class is not great for QB’s if compared to next year… I wonder if Jameis has any kind of trade value atm? He would relieve $20 million off the cap that could be used on other areas of need plus whatever you can get in draft capital(2nd + conditional 4th round pick). IMO unless you really think Jameis has the tools both physically and mentally to be the franchise you cut bait now while he may have some sliver of value. Definitely not going to happen but it is something that the front office should explore.

    I’d make a call to the Colts for Brissett or the 49ers for Mullins and see how cheap you can get them as a stop gap for a year(at worst) then become the backup in 2020.

    Tua, Herbert, Patterson, Eason, Fromm looks a lot better than Haskins, Jones, Lock, Stidham, Grier

  52. Belligerentbuc Says:

    Hey tickrdr,

    Your numbers are correct but the conclusion you draw is wrong.

    Ask yourself if any of those playoff qb’s have a 1,000 yrd rusher on their team?
    Oh, and don’t forget to include what the overall defensive rank is of all those playoff teams.

    I guarantee none of them have less than a 1,000yds nor a league worst 32ranked D. Go ahead while we all wait for the retorical answers.

  53. Tom Edrington Says:

    Bucs fans are infamous Kool-Aide drinkers

  54. Jean Lafitte Says:

    The only stat that matters about QB rating is where they rate in their own division. JW is the 4th best QB or the 1st worst QB in our division depending on which is easier for you to acknowledge.

  55. Belligerentbuc Says:

    Oh and since you mention our argument of this being a team sport, how does their offenssive line play compare to our atrocious Oline?

    I don’t see Brees or Brady running for their lives every play. Thats right, they have a run game they count on.

    Ask the Titans if they’d rather have Jameis over Mariotta and they would say hell yeah. If we had Mariotta, I guarantee you that we would have the #1 pick last three years in a row.

    Ship Jameis to anywhere and watch him flourish…its the truth!

  56. Cobraboy Says:

    I’m surprised he’s 20th. That means there are 12 worse than he is. Boggles the mind.

  57. TexBuc Says:

    Both D. Koetter and B. Arians offenses originate off the Air Coryell 4 vert offense. BA has a higher commitment to the running game and dump off passes to the running back so Winston should be able to transition with just an adjustment to the verbiage of the plays called.

  58. Scotty in Fat Antonio Says:

    I’m surprised he’s 20th. That means there are 12 worse than he is. Boggles the mind.

    So from the movie Dumb and Dumber…..SO THERE IS HOPE!

  59. Scotty in Fat Antonio Says:

    Bruce Arians just “officially” interviewed with the Bucs for their Head Coach position.

  60. tickrdr Says:

    Welcome to JBF, as this seems to be your first post! Or is it? (new name, old poster?)

    You are absolutely right that most of the playoff teams are more balanced with better offensive lines, better rushing attacks, better kickers, and better defenses,
    but most of all BETTER QB PLAY in general.

    I did look up the Eagles who are 12th in points allowed, but 23rd in yards allowed by their defense. Their leading rusher Josh Adams had 511 yards, and their second-leading rusher, Wendell Smallwood, had 364 yards, so between them they didn’t have 1000 yards, and ranked 28th in rushing for the season.
    They did gain 47 yards more than the Bucs though, who were ranked 29th.
    They made the playoffs because their QBs combined for TD percentage of 4.8%
    minus INT percentage of 1.8% = 3.0
    Again, I am not saying that JW3 should CARRY the rest of the team to wins and the playoffs by himself. I AM saying that his play to date has NOT equaled his pedigree as the #1 pick in the entire draft, especially after his FOURTH year in the league.


    Which of those younger QBs besides Mariota do you think we could trade for?

  61. Loyaltotheend Says:

    All the excuses are hilarious

    He needs a new system
    He needs a elite RB
    He needs a better o line
    He needs OJ Horward healthy all year
    He needs DJAX to dive for over thrown balls
    He needs DJAX to grow 4 inches to catch all his balls
    Dirk Koetter hates him
    The other team catches too well
    If you criticize him you must like the Gators fan

    Pathetic that the expectations for a #1 overall pick with over 55 games of experience is this low

  62. stpetebucsfan Says:

    SB and Steve

    “Tickrdr bringing knowledge.”

    Agree with you guys. It’s something he does whenever he has the time to show up here. One of our very best posters who totally gets the difference between “opinion” and fact that can be proven and he doesn’t hesitate to ID which he is posting.

    @Tickdr I know Arians is not your patient and so I’m not sure you can even speculate about him but heart conditions in general are your speciality of course.

    No way for you to know Arians condition without an exam but generally speaking would hiring a coach with a heart condition scare you? Seems to have freaked a significant portion of our posters. I’m prejudiced having had a mild heart attack a year and a half ago and I feel great. The major difference for me is that I take a med that prevents the spasms that caused the first attack. I feel certain I could coach the Bucs….if only I had the talent and experience. LMAO

    BTW Tickdr….if we hire Arians you are my first nomination to be his cardiologist. That would be way cool for we JBF guys…talk about inside info. LOL Hopefully Buc news is not HIPAA protected.

  63. Anonymous Says:

    I have said it for 2 years. Magoo is average. Not a franchise.

  64. Bucs 14 Says:

    I have said it for 2 years. Magoo is average. Not a franchise qb.

  65. T REX Says:

    Nothing but excuses for 4 years for Winston. Same crap. One more season and we ate finally done with that bag of crap.

  66. D-Rome Says:

    Jay-Miss is not an elite QB. He never will be.

  67. tickrdr Says:


    Thank you so much for the kind words, and a hat tip to you sir!
    To be honest, I haven’t even read any info about Bruce Arians’ medical issues, if any, and even if any have been reported in the past; it would be pure speculation on my part to comment.


  68. Fire Light Says:

    Lol at this pile of trash list. Jameis is top5 and great for all of mankind on top of that.

  69. Fire Light Says:

    Fake Sports News Media looking for clicks… don’t agree with the list at all.

  70. Fire Light Says:

    Mariota doesn’t belong on the list. Here is the corrected top 5.

    1. Jameis Winston
    2. Tom Brady
    3. Lamar Jackson
    4. Phillip Rivers
    5. Deshaun Watson
    6. Drew Brees
    7. Andrew Luck
    8. Matt Ryan
    9. Aaron Rodgers
    10. Ben Roethlisberger
    11. Patrick Mahomes
    12. Jared Goff
    No More Rateable QBs after that.

    Worst QBs to take a snap this year.
    Ryan Fitzpatrick
    Marcus Mariota
    Blake Bortles
    Cam Newton
    Joe Flacco

  71. Ed Says:

    Winston has to understand that he can’t improve on his physical talent only. His entire outlook on preparing for Sunday’s has to be adjusted. He’s lived and died by making the tough throws and he’s missed too many easy throws.

    I believe his problems can be corrected with him buying in on:

    Learning to look off defenders and not locking in to his favorite targets

    Speeding up his delivery/release, learning to “flick” the ball on short throws instead of throwing it with high velocity, low trajectory

    Getting the ball to his running backs when he senses pressure instead of holding on to the ball and trying to make the big play

    If I was him I’d be watching all the film I could of Drew Brees as he is the master of getting the ball out quick. To me as a fan I just think Winston is just a 8th of a second slower in reading defenses and getting the ball out than the top tier quarterbacks.