Careful What You Wish For

November 21st, 2018

Looking at needs.

Growing chatter in NFL circles is that the top free agent when the free agency dinner bell rings in early March is currently on the Bucs roster.

No, Joe’s not talking about Donovan Smith.

If the Bucs cut ties with this guy, expect this player to get a lot of run in free agency. And that would be America’s Quarterback, Pro Bowler Jameis Winston.

Joe heard that on the FOX broadcast of the Bucs-Giants game and has heard it a few times since from different sources. Now add Andy Benoit to the list.

Benoit, typing for, wrote there really aren’t quarterbacks to target in the draft or in free agency. So the smart thing for the Bucs might be to keep Jameis and hope he turns things around with a new head coach.

It’s easy to say the Bucs need a new QB—and they probably do. But one must actually be available. It’s not a particularly enticing quarterback draft class. And in free agency, the most enticing passer will be, well, Jameis Winston, assuming the Bucs eschew his fifth-year option. Head coach Dirk Koetter, who was hired to continue his work with Winston, will likely be canned after this season. But it’s a little less likely that Winston will. … …

Potential Targets: Oregon’s Justin Herbert and Duke’s Daniel Jones wrap up the college football regular season as the top quarterback prospects, though both are raw and neither is guaranteed to enter the draft. If the (likely) new regime doesn’t like the quarterbacks, there’s no shortage of pass-rush help. With Gerald McCoy and 2018 first-rounder Vita Vea anchoring the middle of the line, a pure edge guy like Clemson’s Clelin Ferrell, Kentucky’s Josh Allen or Mississippi State’s Montez Sweat fit the bill.

Joe’s been repeating for months the old Raheem Morris saying, “I will tolerate you until I can replace you.” There is no viable option for Jameis as Joe types this (easy with the Teddy Bridgewater stuff. Why would he want to come here as opposed to Jacksonville?).

That’s not even factoring in seemingly every starting quarterback the Bucs gave up on has had success elsewhere.

Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.

104 Responses to “Careful What You Wish For”

  1. Joe Blahak Says:

    The Joes are blind…..It’s 4 years…He sucks…He won’t magically change because of a coach…Tolerate until the new league year…

  2. Knoxville Bucs Fan Says:

    BS He’s not going anywhere

  3. Buc believer Says:

    LMAO!!!!! “The Joes are blind”….. if you fail to learn from the past you are doomed to repeat it. See Steve Young see Doug Williams see Trent Dilfer see Vinny Testaverde shall I go on?? You Jameis haters must LOVE you some losing! You people are nothing but a bunch of masochists!

  4. Pete I Says:

    BS BS He will be leaving eventually because he does suck and always will. No coach can fix that. Another team will take him and he will be Mediocre there too. He is Jay Cutler and that is an insult to Jay Cutler since Cutler had no off the field issues.

  5. Anonymous Says:

    JW will be back next year like it or not he gives us a better chance than any rookie coming out.

  6. SchwiftyBuc Says:

    Why do people find it so hard to grasp that Jameis could be a different kind of player in a better coached offense?

    Does no one remember how trash Goff looked under Fisher vs just how good he looks now?

    Judging Jameis for what he’s been in a risky vertical scheme is too hasty. You need to give him a chance to show what he can in a different system with a different voice in his ear.

  7. Pete I Says:

    But yes we are likely to repeat the past…the past 4 years waiting for Jameis to be at least sort of worth the first pick in the draft. It’s like staying with that terrible girlfriend way, way to long.

  8. SchwiftyBuc Says:

    And before any one says, “Oh well Goff has Gurley duh!”… Gurley was there in his rookie year too.

  9. Pete I Says:

    Goff looked bad his rookie year. Jameis is still the same since his rookie year. 4 long years ago. Adam Gase got a good year our of Cutler once too, Chicago moved on smartly.

  10. Pete I Says:

    And the Glazier boys won’t hire a McVay, they will likely high someone already on the staff…ugh. Has any decisions by the Glazier kids given anyone hope for a Jameis “fixer upper” coach?

  11. Dooshlarue Says:

    You can’t coach out stupid you silly Jameis Worshippers!
    You can only blindly believe in all that “potential”.

  12. lambchop Says:

    @Buc Believer,

    You sound like a true idiot. I’m not one to get rid of Winston just yet, but for goodness sakes please stop with the past QBs BS. Those QBs went to a TEAM, system, and QB coach (Mike Holmgren in the case of Steve Young) that could develop the talent. Steve Young, Testaverde, Doug Williams would have done absolutely ZERO had they stayed with the Bucs.

    What’s the point of holding onto a guy who won’t blossom in the current surroundings? Are you just pissed that they won somewhere else? It takes a lot more than just the player for the player to be successful. The Bucs just don’t have that and what makes you think they’ll get it straightened out with a new coach? We don’t even know who the new coach will be. Will Winston be his guy? Maybe and maybe not, but please let the past and sour grapes die already.

  13. SchwiftyBuc Says:

    In Jameis’ first full 2 season’s, he was anything but bad outside of a handful of games. I did the break down the other day, and besides being 16th best for passing yards in his rookie year, he was top 12 or better in yards and TD throws. Actually he threw the 7th most TD’s in the league in 2016.

    Anyway, it wasn’t until injuring the AC joint in his throwing shoulder where he was visibly struggling on a regular basis, and then he ended 2017 being arguably the best or 2nd or 3rd best QB of the month of December, and that’s all in a risky down field scheme that based on his apparent skill set, he is kind of ill suited to play in.

    Also Jameis has improved incrementally in basically every major category pertaining to passing the football in almost every year, based on per game metrics.

    But back to the main point, Jameis doesn’t struggle with every type of deep throw, but he has specifically struggle on deep throws attacking the sideline. He’s shown to be capable of being surgical targeting the deep and intermediate middle of the field. In addition to being a good athlete with an uncanny knack for extending plays and escaping pressure, with an elite arm and good football IQ.

    Put Jameis in the system of an offensive genius like Kyle Shannahan or Sean McVay, or Andy Reid, or Matt Nagy or Frank Reich and he would be a top 10 QB year in and year out. He has that kind of skill set. He just needs the right team and the right coach to be the best he’s capable of being

  14. JP_09 Says:

    @pete, since you have it all figured out, who do you replace Winston with? Question two, since you knew McVay was going to be the coach he is, who is the “next McVay” coach the Bucs should target? Maybe the Glazers should hire you to be the next GM

  15. Pete I Says:

    Opportunity Knocks! Don’t miss your chance!
    Fixer Upper Quarterback in great neighborhood.
    Comes complete with lots of stats, yardage and tons of “potential”
    Needs “some” work but perfect for the coaching handyman.
    Owner’s Semi-Motivated – low cost inquiries only please.
    AS IS!

  16. D-Rome Says:

    That’s not even factoring in seemingly every starting quarterback the Bucs gave up on has had success elsewhere.

    What happened in the past is not relevant. Did Josh Freeman, Chris Simms, Bruce Gradkowski, Brad Johnson, Shawn King, Brian Griece, or Brad Johnson find great success elsewhere after their days in Tampa were done?

  17. Bucsfanman Says:

    Schwifty- best, level- headed argument I have read so far. There’s no reason to think he can’t flourish outside of Koetters obviously flawed system. Of course, this is assuming a new regime will want to retain him.
    That said, there’s no hiding from the terrible film he has amassed over the years. He’s Jeckyl and Hyde, “Good Jameis/Bad Jameis”. He can and should be replaced if he cannot clean up these issues. Nor, should we be afraid of letting him walk. We have done just fine losing with and without him.
    Time will tell. Now more than ever, he’s interviewing for his next gig. 6 games left.

  18. Wright Says:


    He is interviewing for his next gig, in a way, but will we see anything different in Koetter’s risky scheme this season? I actually think his interview is for his career, with the Bucs, and that it doesn’t start until next season. That is because we need to see him with a different voice in his ear.

  19. Pete I Says:

    “That is because we need to see him with a different voice in his ear.” Denver and Chicago said the same things about Jay Cutler. “Be careful what you wish for”

  20. BucEmUp Says:

    If the Bucs cut Jameis and keep Dirk Koetter I won’t watch a game next season. If they can’t see the problem has been the defense that keeps this team from winning ….these people are stupud.

  21. Evolvingbucsfan Says:

    Great Breakdown @Schwifty, and don’t forget Joe’s he did that with a pieced together o-line, a very sub par running game, and having the pressure all on him to win the game because we haven’t even had a mediocre defense for how many years. When you are constantly trying to over come all those things by forcing plays or trying your damnedest to get back in the game is when turn overs happen. He has not been in a position to succeed, quite the opposite in fact. Give Jameis a coach and system that utilizes the players strength, a decent running game and an average defense then we wouldn’t be in this horrible cycle that has been this whole Bucs organization.

  22. Kobe Faker Says:

    “Nice post Schwifty

    75% of the jw haters are here posting because they hate him for his off the field screwups which JW is to be rightfully blamed…stats and even wins matter…they love the bucs but hate JW being the face/qb of their beloved team”

    Kobe Faker

  23. FortMyersDave Says:

    Don’t know if I believe any reports about Winston being a top shelf FA in the off-season, sounds like the rumor that Koetter was SF bound that got the wheels turning on Koetter getting the deal here in Tampa and Lovie a trip to the basement on the Big 10….
    But lets assume someone likes Winston…. Hmmm…… Sure another desperate team might take a look at Winston if/when he is a free agent and they are also the teams who have a history much like the Bucs for not having a decent qb for quite some time like the Fins, Jags, Broncos or maybe Chuckie and his big ego in Oakland will drink the Koolaid and make a splash. However, its pretty obvious that the Bucs are snakebit if Winston stays or he goes; they likely win a game or two at home and like last year finish 5-11 or so, just enoughs Ws to fall back in the draft so if a guy like Justin Herbert comes out and has an impressive combine, he will be off the board before the Bucs pick 6th or 7th and this qb draft class could be weak like the Blake Bortles/Johnnyn Manziel/Teddy Bridgewater draft or the Mariotta/Winston one where ALL the first rounders were busts….

    So in a nutshell, the Jameis situation is a tough one for the new GM and coaching staff to inherit. Keep him and you MIGHT get a qb who manages to rank around 16-20th overall at best unless he solves this blasted turnover issue that is ingrained in his mentality or you could get a guy who totally implodes like Bortles and put back your franchise another year while you wait to pick in the top 10 in the 2020 draft and hope Tua is on the board…… Tough being a Buc fan. Christ, might as well set Ryan Griffen in as Winston’s backup to see what he has if and when its time to sit Winston in the final 6 games as its clear that Fitz is not the future……

  24. Pete I Says:

    ” Give Jameis a coach and system that utilizes the players strength, a decent running game and an average defense”


    Opportunity Knocks! Don’t miss your chance!
    Fixer Upper Quarterback in great neighborhood.
    Comes complete with lots of stats, yardage and tons of “potential”
    Needs “some” work but perfect for the PERFECT SYSTEM coaching handyman. Needs everything to be PERFECT for this fixer-upper to SUCCEED but if that’s YOU ! Make offer!
    Owner’s Semi-Motivated – low cost inquiries only please.
    AS IS!

  25. Kobe Faker Says:

    *stats and wins dont matter

  26. Bucsfan3 Says:

    Exactly – keep Jameis and try to see what he can do with a different shot caller. The defense is absolutely atrocious. Is anyone still really questioning this Noles bias when I lost all apetitte with our 1st round miss. Way to trade back in the 1st but we had our guy there at Safety – Derwin James. Still clinging to Vea > James? It’s too hot for that massive NW’er

  27. Bucs Fan #7423 Says:

    If we can’t replace Jamies with better, we’ll just have to suffer another season of watching him turn the ball over.

    Fixing our real problems starts with firing Jason Licht

  28. K_Bassuka Says:

    Jameis sucks about as much as Brees sucked for the Chargers before those “smart” fans ran him out of town, that turned out great for them.

    One show me year with a new regime after 4 years with a guy who thought Suckpatrick and DJax were good fits, where do I sign up? We can only go up from here.

  29. Bucs Fan #7423 Says:

    Why is Gerald McCoy getting paid $16 million this year?

  30. FortMyersDave Says:

    Exactly Bucs fan 7423: if the available talent in the draft is similar to Bridgewater/Bortles/Mariota/Winston might as well tough it out with Winston in 2019 and look forward to 2020 while the new GM starts fixing all the holes in the roster (OL, DL, Secondary, etc) that Licht has created in the past 5 drafts…… And lets face it, free agency will not be the solution at qb……. Perhaps a miracle happens and the Bucs get a new HC who signs off on a scheme where Winston runs out of a 3 step drop, minimizing all these idiotic picks he makes when he telegraphs his intentions on a 7 step drop or forces the ball into double coverage and a pick.

  31. Tampabaybucfan Says:

    I think Jameis will stay…..but here is what disturbs me.

    After being benched for turning the ball over…..(and you know that had to kill Jameis) I hoped he would have learned a lesson……
    But it didn’t take one game for him to go back to his old ways…..he had several throws that should have been intercepted…..I’ll give him a pass on those because of the desperate game situation.
    But the fumble on the 1 yard line on 2nd & goal…..that is inexcusable.
    If you think that can be “coached” out of him….you are dead wrong.
    That simply is who Jameis is and will be… & forever. You have to take his good with his bad going forward.

  32. Dooshlarue Says:

    Pete I

    That is some funny stuff right there!
    Is the fixer up close to public transportation?
    I don’t like to Uber.

  33. Easy Says:

    Remember the Hard Knocks episode where Winston was getting sacked in the preseason game and just chucked it up and was intercepted? Dirks reaction: “C’mon Jameis, you’re better than that!” Honestly, no he isn’t. We’ve watched it for 4 years straight and those FSU homers his last year of college.

  34. FortMyersDave Says:


    We used to have a guy who “drove the Bus” on Fowler Ave in North Tampa. He took off a couple of years ago before a bowl game to work in Eugene Oregon and then relocated to Tallahassee less than a year ago. Rumor has it he “might” become available to “drive the Bus” again if FSU gets embarrassed by the Gators. I think the guy’s name is Willie………

  35. Im tired and 87 is right Says:

    Someone mentioned changing to a 3-4 defense which may not be a bad idea. The next best coach is going to be one who can figure out how to stop this new high flying offenseses in the NFL. I think the days of low scoring games are gone. You will need to get more ball hawks and guys that can match speed for speed with the WRs. Pretty much all defensive players will have to have speed to have a chance at stopping the other team. A run game and strong offensive line will be important to slow the game down and keep the ball out of the other teams hands.

  36. Buc1987 Says:

    Pete…being drafted in 2015 does not make it 4 years…

    IMO in those 3 years I’ve seen enough to keep Jameis.

  37. Playaction Says:

    We need to use this draft to get a top tier satety.
    If we can get Vita vea through a complete camp with a good coach, that would open more rush lanes for Nassib and Pierre-Paul.

  38. Bob in Valrico Says:

    In Jameis’s first year Koetter devised an offense that cut down the amount of
    field and progressions that Jameis had to survey . He also had two big tall receivers that presented big targets. They often had their backs to the defense to present a framed target for Jameis. Coupled with good production
    from the running game these factors helped Jameis be successful in his first year especially.
    IMO,Koetter sat Jameis to calm him down. Once you start making mistakes
    at a high rate you eventually lose confidence.
    That said ,even with a sitting three games , Jameis still has a bit of a hero complex that drives him to make some rash decisions. With 23 seconds left in the game the goal is to complete two sideline passes to get into field goal range first and foremost. Throwing a Hail Mary at the that point was not smart.
    Jameis will get his chance to earn his job back, and the success of the team
    will rest on his ability to make smart decisions.

  39. Buc1987 Says:

    Fix the D.

    Stop worrying about Jameis.

  40. Phil Says:

    Getting rid of Jameis would be stupid on the Bucs part. I would much rather they get rid of Koetter and keep Monken as the OC.

  41. Buc1987 Says:

    Tampabaybucfan Says :

    “You have to take his good with his bad going forward.”

    Hmmmmm been doing that since FSU.

    Still don’t have a problem cause I see more good than bad.

  42. Anonymous Says:

    *Pro bowl alternate. Only made it be because others dropped. Stop the false narrative on that.

  43. AlteredEgo Says:

    Koetter ain’t going anywhere next year….his side of the ball has been producing extremely well.and the defense has been getting sloppy seconds in the draft until this year….a new DC and a whole bunch of new faces on defense..
    there are several very could passers in this draft I have been on the Drew Lock bandwagon since last year…DE David Allen….
    trade down with Gruden
    and get their 2nd & 3rd first round picks for our 1st round pick
    that would give Gruden 2 top 10 picks

  44. Erik Hesson Says:

    I think DJax will be more sought after as a FA than Jameis.

  45. Pete I Says:

    OK 4 seasons 2015, 2016, 2017 and now well into 2018.

  46. Pryda Says:

    Jameis is better than most QBs and hasn’t really reached his ceiling he is not leaving Tampa plus since he has came into the league we’ve never had a good defense shoot even an average defense that’s the number 1 priority!

  47. FortMyersDave Says:

    AlteredEgo: no way Koetter survives as head coach for 2019 unless the Bucs somehow go 8-8 or 9-7 and with the Saints, Panthers at home along with Dallas and Baltimore on the road along with home games against bad SF and ATL teams, well I simply do not see anything much better than 5-11 right now……. I doubt if the Glazers demote him to OC and he would probably refuse if that was made an option as he did sign a 5 year deal back in 2016 thus is guaranteed some huge coin just to sit back and laugh…… It is plausible that a new HC might bring Monken on boardas OC but look for a total housecleaning at One Buc with the coaching staff and HOPEFULLY the GM as well as he is also to blame for so many missed draft picks in the first 2 days of the draft and some very bad free agent signings.

    Erik Hesson: you might be right about DJax. People in Philly and DC claimed he was a cancer in the locker room but Tampa still signed him, he will find another sucker looking for speed and poison another locker room……

  48. Evolvingbucsfan Says:

    @Pete, lol. Would love to see that in the classifieds or Craigslist adds but you are right about the owners IMO. But you don’t need the perfect system to be successful, Im not asking for PERFECT but the way this team has been coached with this talent is a let down.

    Passed 2-3 years our weakness was inconsistent o-line, turn overs, running game, defense, kicking game. We haven’t fixed those yet. I’d even settle for 2 out of the 5 i listed at this point.

  49. Pete I Says:

    And I too have seen the 4 seasons of winston, I just don’t want more mediocrity and losing that Buc87 wants to continue.

  50. stpetebucsfan Says:

    Again I think we mess up this conversation because we talk in extremes. Jameis is the greatest QB ever…or…Jameis is the worst QB ever. What if he’s neither?

    Jameis could simply be a decent QB limited by his penchant for turnovers. I agree with TBBF we’re probably not going to coach this out of Jameis. But we could game plan and try to work around it. More running obviously…less passing. We build the team on defense until they are good enough to carry us.

    If after next year we do not see enough promise out of Jameis we go looking for a new QB then. This team has too many needs to worry about QB right now…we have two mediocre QB’s and we simply need to work with them.

    Meanwhile it’s the culture. This is what I REALLY want to know about Jameis. Where is his head? He ALWAYS says the right things but too frequently he DOES the wrong things. Before we can sign off on Jameis somebody in the Bucs organization has to be absolutely POSITIVE about Jameis head and his heart. Is he coachable? Just questions that really need to be answered.

  51. Buccaneer Bonzai Says:

    I won’t make any predictions except this: If the Buccaneers cut Jameis Winston this off season for anything other than another off field incident, I’m going to boycott the team for a bit.

    Benoit is 100% right.

    There will be no one to replace him with. I’ve already checked over the lists. No one.

    He would be the hottest free agent for a reason. You guys want to restart the Quarterback Curse because you are fairweather, bandwagon idiots who always want to cut and run.

    Successful franchises are built with time and patience.

    Keep Winston this year. Draft a QB to see if he develops well enough, then make a decision after next year.

    Because good starting QBs are hard as heck to find. Some of you forget what it was like before Winston, when fans were telling themselves that a mediocre QB was good enough to win a ring with, because other teams had done it. Where are those teams now?

    No. Go with continuity and developed upgrades. Over time. Like the big guys do.

  52. BigHogHaynes Says:

    Fix this trash of an O-Line and Jameis will become Famous!

  53. Buc1987 Says:

    Pete I…..clearly you’ve focused on nothing BUT Jameis.

    That’s your problem.

    How did they get Jameis in the first place Pete? Losing? Yep losing and lot’s of it.

    What happens when they get rid of Jameis?

    According to Pete the losing will stop.

    Poor Pete.

  54. ben Says:

    why all the love for a loser on and off the field?? take Winston and move on… Bucs can do better !!!

  55. 813bucboi Says:

    dirk needs to go…..he’s ruining winston…..simple as that……


  56. AlteredEgo Says:

    813…LOL…how is Koetter ruining Jamyth ?

  57. K_Bassuka Says:

    @Erik Hesson
    I’m sure a lot of teams are dying to bring in DJax outstanding hustle to teach their youngsters.

  58. D-Rome Says:

    He would be the hottest free agent for a reason. You guys want to restart the Quarterback Curse because you are fairweather, bandwagon idiots who always want to cut and run.

    There’s no such thing as curses. The reality is that he is a turnover machine and no one will be able to coach that out of him. He is what he is. He was benched for several games due to terrible performance and he *still* couldn’t take care of the ball! That tells you all you need to know. He’s uncoachable.
    He’ll always be in the bottom half of the NFL in terms of QB discussions because of it.

    The Jay-Miss discussion is moot anyway. He’s going to be back next year. No one seriously believes (or should) that the Bucs are going to cut him. They should bring in competition next year whether that’s via Free Agency or the draft and let the chips fall where they may.

  59. Not there yet Says:

    Wow just mentioning Winston’s name brings out the stupid in people. Even with people saying there are very few college prospects and the fact that Winston would probably be the best free agent qb on the market still doesn’t stop the stupid from coming out of people in this town. He’ll be here another year get over yourselves or go find another team. Don’t say you can’t coach stupid when you seems your more stupid to not realize there is no one else to come in and do better unless your couch quarterbacks can do better but seems you don’t have a lick of physical ability which is why so many of you hate on athletes in general. Jealousy and hate that’s all I see in the comments

  60. Ant Says:

    Uhh never heard joe saybthat before today

  61. LUVMYBUCS Says:


    I have to disagree bredren – Jameis has ruined Jameis – Simple as That!!


  62. Mike Johnson Says:

    I’ve been a Buc fan since the teams inception during the 1970’s. But if the Glazers decide to keep Dirk Koetter? I”m gone. Done with this franchise. He’s not taking us anywhere but average or mediocrity at best. Jameis can be righted. We just gotta develop a strong comsistent running game first and Get us a Defense to stop somebody so we are not always playimg from Behind. Thats been our theme. Save us Jameis..we are behind. Throw us to victory. Won’t work in this league.

  63. LUVMYBUCS Says:

    (2009-20012) Josh Freeman (W/L) *21-27-0
    • Games Played: 48
    • Passes Completed: 936| Pass Attempted: 1568 | Cmp. %: 59.69
    • Total Passing Yards: 10945
    • Total Touch Downs: 67
    • Total Interceptions: 51*
    • Total Fumbles: 33 (*lost 13)
    • QBR: 81.6


    (2015-2018) Jameis Winston (W/L) *19-29-0
    • Games Played: 48
    • Passes Completed: 1017 | Pass Attempted: 1657 | Cmp. %: 61.38
    • Total Passing Yards: 12541
    • Total Touch Downs: 74
    • Total Interceptions: 50*
    • Total Fumbles: 35 (*lost 16)
    • QBR: 87.1

    When U consider – Rules Changes to favor the QB, WR.
    The Offensive Weapons Josh had vs what Jameis has. Smh

    How is this not more of the same?

  64. LUVMYBUCS Says:

    O – but he’s the Best QB we’ve ever had LMFAO.

  65. Cobraboy Says:

    If America’s Turnover Machine would be such a hot item in FA, would not he also be a hot trade item?

    Would he not be worth a couple of #1’s, a #2 and maybe a solid CB?

    This team would be sooooo much better off with more cap $$$ and several extra high picks than be straddled with more frustrating turnovers and W-eating.

    But opinions vary…

  66. mixxx31 Says:

    I realize that I am getting older and my memory isn’t what it used to be. I never remember hearing Raheem Morris saying that ” I will tolerate you until I can replace you” line. I was Mike Tomlin.

  67. Cobraboy Says:

    stpetebucsfan Says:

    Meanwhile it’s the culture. This is what I REALLY want to know about Jameis. Where is his head? He ALWAYS says the right things but too frequently he DOES the wrong things.

    That is a symptom of a person who cannot control his inner demons and impulses.

    And mental health professionals will tell you such behavior is likely to continue because it is part of the inherent mental processes. It’s ingrained.

    It doesn’t make him a bad person. It means he is unpredictable in his behavior.

    His track record of personal behavior is ample proof.

    You don’t think he promised upon promises in his pre-draft interviews he was a “changed man?” You think there is only ONE Uber-esque or other poor-decision/behavior situation out there lurking?

  68. Cobraboy Says:

    mixxx31 Says:

    I realize that I am getting older and my memory isn’t what it used to be. I never remember hearing Raheem Morris saying that ” I will tolerate you until I can replace you” line. I was Mike Tomlin.

    I heard it from Lou Holtz, Jack Gotta and Willie Wood who all pre-date Mike Tomlin.

    That cliche has been around since pro football. Or any other pro sport.

  69. Bucsfanman Says:

    LUV- You are treading on thin ice my friend! Word on the street is that Jameis turned Gatorade into wine at practice yesterday and that koolaid was ohhhhhh so tasty!
    True story……allegedly!

  70. doolnutts Says:

    LUVMYBUCS — Your post is absolutely outstanding.. These FSU homers are clueless about football.. Winston stinks.. How do you out turnover Bortles? I didn’t think that possible.

  71. Tc Says:

    Tampa has not had a threat at the r.b. position in quite some time. Something that Freeman had while we had a healthy Doug Martin, Legarrout Blount and off the top of my head I believe he had Earnest Graham.
    Right now something is going right even when it seems wrong that we have a top 5 passing offense with either quarterback.
    There is no reason to have 30+ points week in and out and still lose. Turnovers aside. Field goal situation aside. This defense can’t stop any team. Could it be the injuries week in and out? We know for sure the smitty wasnt the solution. There is no denying there is talent in Winston, but this team can fall down the same road Cleveland was for the last 2 decades.

  72. Nick2 Says:

    First, Bridgewater might want to come here instead of Jax because our depth at WR is 10 times the garbage they have in Jax and that world class defense is obviously overrated. Plus Fournette is injury prone. Next I agree the right HC will bring a better scheme fit for James instead of 5 step drop and chuck it deep.

  73. 813bucboi Says:


    dirk was hired to get winston to the next level…..has he done that?…..has winston regressed?……


    im talking on the field… doubt winston screwed up off the field, but it was dirks responsibility to develop winston…..can you say dirk has developed him properly?….


  74. mixxx31 Says:

    Thank you for the insight.

  75. Cobraboy Says:

    @813bucboi: There is an old cliche that applies: “You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make him drink.”

    Winston has a responsibility to help develop himself.

    How many thousands or tens of thousands of times do you think these coaches, and his FSU coaches, told him how to get better, how to stop throwing interceptions, how to stop fumbling, how to protect the football, how to follow their plans and plays, and how not to be a Mo Ron off the field?

  76. LUVMYBUCS Says:


    Tampa Bay Rushing (Total Yards)

    Josh Freeman Era (2009-2012)
    • 2009 – Atts: 404 | Yds: 1627 | Tds: 5 I Avg.: 4.0
    • 2010 – Atts: 431 | Yds: 2001 | Tds: 9 I Avg.: 4.6
    • 2011 – Atts: 404 | Yds: 1627 | Tds: 5 I Avg.: 4.2
    • 2012 – Atts: 416 | Yds: 1837 | Tds: 13 I Avg.: 4.4

    **Total: Atts: 1655 | Yds: 7092 | Tds: 32 I Avg.: 4.3*

    Jameis Winston Era (2015-2018) Ten Games In←- +6 left
    • 2015 – Atts: 455 | Yds: 2162 | Tds: 12 I Avg.: 4.8
    • 2016 – Atts: 453 | Yds: 1616 | Tds: 8 I Avg.: 3.6
    • 2017 – Atts: 390 | Yds: 1448 | Tds: 8 I Avg.: 3.7
    • 2018 – Atts: *245 | Yds: 975 | Tds: 7 I Avg.: 4.0 ←+6 left

    **Total: Atts: 1543 | Yds: 6201 | Tds: 29 I Avg.: 4.0*

    The names are nice – but the line is – that the results are almost identical.

  77. 813bucboi Says:


    there is an old chiche that applies: doing the same thing over and over again but expecting different results is the definition of insanity…..

    dirk continues to force his outdated 4vert scheme upon winston instead of running the ball more…..if he keeps throwing picks, why does dirk continue to have him throw 30+ times a game…..

    when winston won at fsu, he had a great run game(d.freeman & karlos williams) and a good defense……why does dirk continue to air-it-out when he has 2 QB’s that are TO machines……


  78. LUVMYBUCS Says:

    Wasn’t Jameis suppose the “Tide” that raised all boats?

    How are we now – No better than Morris/Schiano Bucs?

  79. Tampa Bay Demon Says:


    You can always be counted on for a well-reasoned opinion that is expressed eloquently.

    We may not always agree… but nonetheless… CHEERS!

  80. admin Says:

    What happened in the past is not relevant.

    Absolutely it is relevant. Only fools don’t learn from the past.

  81. jmarkbuc Says:

    “That’s not even factoring in seemingly every starting quarterback the Bucs gave up on has had success elsewhere.”

    C’mon Joe..that is FAKE NEWS….

    We’ve had plenty of bad to avg QB’s that didn’t do well here or anywhere else…

    Sad that you push that narrative.

  82. Tampa Bay Demon Says:

    Not to argue with ya, @jmarkbuc, but they did preface with “seemingly”, which means “so as to give the impression of”.

    It just SEEMS that way to us Bucs fans… that’s all.

  83. jmarkbuc Says:


    I think we all know the implication….and it’s just incorrect.


  84. D-Rome Says:

    How many thousands or tens of thousands of times do you think these coaches, and his FSU coaches, told him how to get better, how to stop throwing interceptions, how to stop fumbling, how to protect the football, how to follow their plans and plays, and how not to be a Mo Ron off the field?

    I don’t know why people think a new coach is going to all of the sudden fix things. People can’t look at Jared Goff and say the same thing. Goff was not a turnover machine in college. He’s not a turnover machine today. Like so many have said in past, who you are in college is who you will be in the pros.

    When most were clamoring for Lovie Smith to get fired everyone thought a new coach would come in here and “coach the Lovie out of the players” or some nonsense like that. Turns out, Jonthan Banks, Alterraun Verner, Da’Quon Bowers, Major Wright, ect… weren’t “fixed” by a new coach. A new head coach isn’t going to “coach the Dirk out of Jameis.”

    You watch, when Jameis sucks next year people will say Dirk ruined him.

  85. Tampa Bay Demon Says:

    ^ Not really

  86. Dapostman Says:

    Jim Harbaugh would make Winston a more disciplined and a better player.

    Worked for Alex Smith.

    Worked for Kaepernick.

  87. SOEbuc Says:

    Sam Ehilingher 2020!!! Broke Big XII record with passes thrown without an interception and is a beast that can run like Tebow.

  88. jmarkbuc Says:

    If I had to pick another team to follow, other than the Bucs…

    Definitely The Chiefs, Mahomes is the real deal…I mean he’s only 23 and all, but….

  89. Buc believer Says:

    @lambchop…. I don’t remember attacking you personally. The people that do are the true idiots my friend. Have a Happy Thanksgiving!

  90. Bossmode Says:

    And who was coaching Josh Freeman, Dirk never earn the right to coach the team to begin with. He was handed the head coach job imo he was giving the coordinator job because of health reason for the pervious oc

  91. 813bucboi Says:


    we dont need the new HC to “coach the dirk out of winston”…..we need the new HC to coach winning into winston……

    we need the new HC to have a heavy run attack to minimize winstons mistakes……

    we need the new HC to develop the defensive players that the GM drafts…..

    doing all of those things will “fix” winston without the HC even having to “fix” winston because he is who he is…..

    develop the team around winston and he’ll develop as well…..


  92. Bossmode Says:

    Most of you forget the bucs haven’t been a hot coaching destination for years nobody wanted the job. Hence the reason we take the leftover or some random to feel the suit then expect them to be great and wonder why no one coached up.

  93. Cobraboy Says:

    813bucboi Says:


    there is an old chiche that applies: doing the same thing over and over again but expecting different results is the definition of insanity…

    You are correct.

    Which, being of healthy mind, I do not expect Winston to ever accept coaching, since he has heard how to prevent turnovers and dumb-ass plays tens of thousands of times.

    I don’t expect a new sheriff to arrive on his white horse and suddenly the light bulb comes on in Winston’s head. ~THAT~ would define insane…

  94. Cobraboy Says:

    @D-Rome: excellent response.

    You will be in the pros what you were in college, just at a different level with more $$$ and distractions.

    How true.

  95. Cobraboy Says:

    Kaepernick became disciplined? LOL…

  96. LUVMYBUCS Says:


    Maybe we should hire Marc Trestman bredren.

    I mean he did a great Job w/ Jay Culter & Jay Flacco.
    At least until they got him fired too.

  97. LUVMYBUCS Says:

    Joe Flacco

  98. tickrdr Says:


    Kudos to you, young man! I always learn something when I read your posts.


  99. 813bucboi Says:




  100. NotABucsFan Says:

    So, Winston had off-field issues at FSU, but his playing on the field protected him. His off-field issues in the pros are a distraction and there is only so much ownership can tolerate. He is reaching that limit. Additionally, Winston peaked in college. He is not substantially better than his rookie season. The Bucs have not made the championship since Jon Gruden was coach and that was 15 years ago. Koeter is gone after this season, especially after swapping QBs in and out used batteries. Can’t be good for the O-line and it’s definitely not good for the QBs. Also, that 20 million guaranteed bonus for injury is looming and I would not be surprised if the Glazers tell Koeter to pull Winston out so they can release him as a healthy free agent without paying the 20 million.

  101. LUVMYBUCS Says:


    Thank U Sir!

  102. ghost Says:

    Anonymous Says:
    November 21st, 2018 at 8:01 am
    *Pro bowl alternate. Only made it be because others dropped. Stop the false narrative on that.
    he obviously overuses it to irk people like you

  103. lurker Says:

    hmmmmm compared already in another thread

  104. lurker Says:

    and so winston’s first 2 years were his best?…so he has regressed. that is not good.

    yr yrd comp% td Int QBR sak fum fumrec
    2015 4042 58.3 22 15 61.1 27 06 04
    2016 4090 60.8 28 18 59.7 35 10 03
    2017 3504 63.8 19 11 54.0 33 15 07
    2018 1380 65.9 08 11 65.7 13 05 02

    where is the improvement every year as schwifty stated and people praised his work?

    yards are down, touchdowns down, sacks went up, fumbles went up
    completion % has gone up. that’s what i see. and he has been in the same system for four years. not the system.