Points Over Yards

October 19th, 2018

Touchdowns, please.

There seems to be one flaw in the game of America’s Quarterback, Pro Bowler Jameis Winston.

What is it? It’s not cashing in your ticket before leaving the sportsbook. In other words, when you get in the red zone, get points, preferably touchdowns.

Scott Kacsmar of FootballOutsiders.com has an interesting point about Jameis. When he is behind center, the Bucs move the ball which is what you would want any quarterback to do. But when it comes to touchdowns, well, Jameis isn’t exactly lighting up scoreboards (not really counting his first start of the season last week).

Winston-led offenses have historically done well in yards per drive, but disappointed in points per drive. For example, the 2017 Buccaneers finished seventh in yards per drive, but 16th in points per drive. Sunday had some of that on display again. Despite some of the great numbers Winston had, he also threw two interceptions, including one he forced into the end zone in the third quarter. He also took a third-down sack in the red zone and misfired on a two-point conversion that would have tied the game at 24 early in the fourth quarter. So the opportunities to top 30 points were definitely there.

The misfire on the two-point conversion speaks to a much larger issue that is a factor at play here. No, Jameis doesn’t get enough touchdowns. Sort of like picking a team to lay cash on and being right, but then leaving the book before the game is over — leaving without cashing the ticket.

Part of this lack of points is due to lousy kicking. Jameis, like Bucs coach Dirk Koetter, has never had a reliable Bucs kicker.

Another factor is a lousy running game. With the exception of his rookie year, Jameis couldn’t just hand the ball off in the red zone and see his offense put the ball in the end zone consistently, a luxury many other quarterbacks have — and defenses know this.

39 Responses to “Points Over Yards”

  1. Jmarkbuc Says:

    Is Cross still on the team?

    Why not use him as a fullback in the red Zone? Good old fashioned football..pound it in

  2. SilverBuc Says:

    Jameis got that look on his face like ‘this Tampa media can’t be this dumb, complaining about touchdowns and I just threw 4 touchdowns last week’.

  3. Season Is Over Says:

    Winston used to be money in the red zone. He has the receivers to do it. It is part of Koetter making players worse or complicating the system. Winston used to be great at finding receivers on bootlegs. Especially running to the right side.

  4. Ndog Says:

    I hate coming on here and sounding like a Jameis apologist but I hate when things are taken out of context. He took a sack yes BUT it was an olay block by Beneoch so what he supposed to do throw it up BUT then he gets citizen for bring loose with the ball, so he can’t win. Take the sack, moron, try to make a play and something bad happens, moron. Then on the two point conversion he didn’t misfire he was running for his life with a DT coming straight at him UNBLOCKED so he had no time to make the only throw open , which was Evans coming across the back of the endzone. Rip him for his picks and even his near pick to DJAX but can we at least just be accurate when critiquing these guys and the game itself?

  5. The Real Malloy Says:

    Another factor is that he’s just not good. Sorry, but he’s a turnover machine. Pee Wee Herman could run this offense and score points with the weapons we have. Time to move on.

  6. Waterboy Says:

    This article is along the lines of something I was thinking about yesterday. Can you all do an article on the last time the Bucs had a rushing TD of 10 yds or more and the teams record during those games? Thinking about last season I thought that I read awhile back that the longest rushing TD last season was 2 yds.

  7. Dapostman Says:

    God this is the stupidest fanbase in the NFL. Please stop giving up 34 points per game. Get it down to league average 24 points per game and watch the wins roll in. That’s asking the defense to just be AVERAGE. The offense will take care of the rest.

    #Get After It!

  8. Lamarcus Says:

    JW has no room for any error. This is what type of team he is on. He has to play 100 percent mistake free ball for a W. Can’t rely on anyone else because Tampa media has no expectations for anyone else.

  9. Bucnjim Says:

    I guess when your best players are on offense more is expected out of you. Kind of like the Packers, Patriots, and Saints to name a few. The Panthers have some pretty good balance on both sides.

  10. Dewey Selmon Says:

    Peyton Barber has yet to score a rushing TD. That’s mean’s Winston has to throw for every score. How many other QB’s have to do that?

  11. Duthsty Rhothdes Says:

    Ws are best stat of all just not eating them

  12. NPRSageBoy Says:

    What about Wins over Losses? Isn’t that still the measurement of a franchise QB?

  13. Jim Says:

    Let’s not talk about winning record ’cause wins are for losers, right? Uh, wait…

  14. richardtyson Says:



  15. Defense Rules Says:

    @Joe … “Part of this lack of points is due to lousy kicking. Another factor is a lousy running game.” It’s quite comical how you treat Jameis with kid gloves Joe (and continue to not hold him accountable for just about anything by making excuse after excuse for the offense’s lack of putting up points). The Bucs are absolutely stacked with weapons … and SHOULD be putting up tons of points AND controlling the clock in every game we play. Stop with the excuses.

    In our first 3 games against teams with a now 10-6-1 combined record, Fitz took this exact same team (same weapons AND same coaches) and put up 102 points total (34 PPG average) against some decent defenses. Since Fitz & Jameis BOTH played against Chicago, can’t count that one (unless you want to give them each credit for 5 points). But then against the Falcons (a 2-4 team with a hurting defense) Jameis led those same weapons to 29 points. Average TOP for both QBs was roughly the same, as was average turnovers/game. The difference? Fitz making the most of scoring opportunities when they were there. And that’s what Jameis has to start doing. No boo-hooing about lack of a running game; no crying about kicking woes. IT’S SHOWTIME JAMEIS … GET IT DONE.

  16. Resurrection of Fitz Says:

    I wish we had tall receivers then Winston would be more productive in the end zone. Oh wait, we do! SMH

    Wins and losses don’t apply with him since he has to rely on the worst defense of the NFL. Jameis is not Superman. But GMC is Batman. lol

  17. JimmyJack Says:

    Hey you know what? Wake me up when we can convert 1st and goal from the 2(falcons game) IMO the QBs job should be done 90% of the time when he gets you a 1st down inside the 2.

    But no not with this GD team. And the reason they jump offsides is because of the play design they ran on Sunday…….Take your fancy run block sceming and stuff it up your azz Dirk. Thst play should be right in front of every player……every…..efffing…..time. But no not with this jerk of a HC…….Whats the matter pookie is you team too puss yo run straight? I bet you got 5+ hardnosed players sitting on the sideline for that play wayching little brate get ragdolled…….Run away from them Dirk. You big puss!!! You play just as scared as the defense does.

    You have sucked out loud as the Head Football coach around here. I cant wait you see you leave……yeah, yeah. Yada yada you will try to prove me wrong……you might fool the rest of them but you wont fool me. I saw what happened to your team when they got into a real game vs the Cowboys in 2016……..arent nothin changed since then.

    At the end of the day when you getinto a real game vs a real team they sniff out your puss team every time. You dont have a chance in this league.

  18. JimmyJack Says:

    Dangit Joe that was a heck of a rant I just went off on. Hopefully you, or the computer gods, will allow it to go through.

    It felt really good getting it off my chest.

    I honestly have not thought much of this Dirk since that Cowboys game. And recieved nothing but disappointment ever since.

  19. Hoops Says:

    Not sure why they aren’t throwing to Brate more this year? He’s been targeted only 11 times so far this year. Of those he’s caught 7 and has 3 touchdowns and actually should have had 5 if they weren’t called back. I don’t understand this. Can someone explain it to me?

  20. Crazed Bucs Fan Says:

    Winston will win tons!!! You all will see. He’s better than Josh Freeman. He played football like Morgan Freeman.

  21. SchwiftyBuc Says:

    If we had the 20th ranked defense right now we’d be 4 and 1. Tracing the origin of our woes is not that hard. It’s the defense.

  22. JimmyJack Says:

    Defense rules……wait a second. You cant just set here and say what Fitzpatrick did with the exact same team because each game is different…..right?

    What a QB does on a given day should be all thats worried about.

    I just cant see how you could fairly compate QB performances in dofferents settings, competition ect.

    About the best you could do is wonder how much greater Fitz could have played in, say, the falcons game. Yet still, it would be nothing more then a pure guess.

  23. 813bucboi Says:


    I agree with most of what you said….I’d rather him take the sack vs throwing up a 50/50 ball…..

    Winston hasn’t had a run game but he also doesn’t have a HC that believes in the run…..

    with that said, he has to play turnover free football…..he cant force throws or throw into double coverage…..I understand tip passes being picked off but the force throws must stop….


  24. Joe Says:

    Not sure why they aren’t throwing to Brate more this year? He’s been targeted only 11 times so far this year. Of those he’s caught 7 and has 3 touchdowns and actually should have had 5 if they weren’t called back. I don’t understand this. Can someone explain it to me?

    Are you familiar with a guy named “O.J. Howard?”

  25. JimmyJack Says:

    Dewey Selmon……To answer your question that would be basically mo QBs if they had just completed a first down pass inside the opponents 2(like we jad last week).

  26. JimmyJack Says:

    Id also love to rag on Dirks awful game time management but theres no point. The guy doesnt care to get better at managing the clock. Ive just come to that conclusion. If he cared it would not be a problem every single game…..and if im exaggerating its only by 1-2 games.

    But i just give up. I will just except the fact that we will give extra posession to the other team…..or we will fail to get ours while leaving wasyed timeouts on the board……..and if we get the ball with a chance to win we will run out of time like we always do.

  27. BrianBucs Says:

    Winston needs to be watching Fitz

  28. Reach87 Says:

    @dapostman speaks the truth. The answer is not in individual bias or nitpicking what is at least good (check the offensive numbers). It’s in all 3 phases. Complimentary football. Average defense and we are arguably 4-1 but at least 3-2. It starts this week and no team in the NFL is an easy win. It won’t be easy. But we CAN win this game. Sure tackling of their underneath stuff, swarm the power run game with proper fits, close coverage on the back end. On offense commit to the run and take some shots with Godwin and Evans when they declare man coverage, and look for a trick or two against their aggression….take it if it’s there. Lastly, play well all 4 quarters. Sounds like a lot, but we have the players to do it…just have to manage the game real time to get it done. Go Bucs!

  29. Defense Rules Says:

    JimmyJack … Good points all, but wasn’t really trying to compare Fitz & Jameis per se. Main point was that Jameis has to start making the most of EVERY scoring opportunity (especially with the way our defense has been playing). No running game, lousy kicking game … just excuses. All-Pros like Drew Brees, Tom Brady, etc have faced the same things many times in their careers, and persevered through it. And many times carried their team on their back in the process.

    One of the announcers last Sunday mentioned Jameis playing too ’emotionally’ especially towards the end of the games (and especially when we’re behind). I think he was right. Jameis starts pressing too hard, and that’s when Bad Jameis rears his head. When he’s cool, calm & collected, he’s as good as any QB IMO. He’s just gotta be like that more often.

  30. Bird Says:

    Defense rules is right.

    Just glad the joes aren’t making 12 out of 15 articles about 1 player anymore. Just wait until Jameis has a big game though (and that will change ) which he should against the Browns Then the told you so s will come back for a time on this site . The browns are staring their 3rd string db as the top guy. If Jane is makes right read and we get out ball fast , then their above average dline won’t matter

    Jamie’s should put up 30-40 pts

    Let’s see what the defense gives up.

  31. JimmyJack Says:

    Defense Rules……Your post sums up Winston nicely. One thing that sticks out to me is when you talked about Winston playing from behind. We are notoriously a slow starting team and have basically been behind and most games that Winston has played in.

    Fitz gave us a taste of what a lead feels like and it was amazing. I would love to see Winston play with more leads. I actually think that could help him develop as a quarterback.

    Last week really bothered me when Winston lowered the crowd Noise by scoring a opening touchdown then the defense just choked it right back up. Maybe the Miss kick-started it all I don’t know

  32. JimmyJack Says:

    What whatever it was it didn’t look like professional football to me

  33. Waterboy Says:


    Denzel Ward is their best DB and I think he’s playing along with Jabrill Peppers and Demarious Randall. I think Cleveland’s defense leads the league in take aways so it won’t be a cake walk.

  34. tickrdr Says:

    Points Over Yards
    October 19th, 2018
    “Winston-led offenses have historically done well in yards per drive, but disappointed in points per drive.”
    Channelling my best John McClane impression: “Welcome to the party,pal!

    Repost, please ignore:
    tickrdr Says:
    September 3rd, 2018 at 3:51 pm
    ……………… the offense was totally overrated, and didn’t score many points, despite all of the “weapons for Winston”. At the same time, there are all of the usual excuses being proffered about the rushing attack, kicking game and the defense, and not so surprisingly by the FSU/Winston sycophants.
    As repeatedly pointed out by Defense Rules and myself, POINTS matter, and total yards not so much. Did you know that the 29th ranked defense last year by YARDS ALLOWED belonged to the NE Patriots? Yet, they were 5th in the league for POINTS ALLOWED.
    Similarly, the presence of a good rushing attack would certainly help an offense to score more points, however the lack of one is simply an excuse. Did you know that the 32nd ranked rushing attack in the league (3.4 YPC) belonged to the Detroit Lions, yet their offense managed to score 25.6 points per game.
    The Bucs managed to score 335 POINTS in 2017. Ryan Fitzpatrick played three full games, and mop-up duty in three others. While in there the Bucs scored 105 points. (65 in three starts, and 33 vs. Ariz, and 7 vs. NO) That leaves 230 points during the approximately 12 games led by JW3, which yields an average of ONLY 19.16 ppg!


  35. Jim Says:

    Points matter, OK…got it.

  36. Jim Says:

    But tickrdr, time to out you as a racist hater…

  37. tickrdr Says:

    Hi, Jim. Thank you for your response to my post. I learned a lot.


  38. Hoops Says:

    Hey Joe getting back to Brate, yea, I’ve heard of OJ Howard. I think they are both good. What about some plays where they are both in at the same time? I thought that was a plan that had been talked about that I really haven’t seen. Remember Gronk and Hernandez? That worked pretty well.

  39. BigMacAttack Says:

    Use Vita as a FB on goal line. He has RB experience, strong, quick and nothing could be worse than what’s going on now. Btw Fitz didn’t have a red zone point problem. This team is a joke because of garbage coaches.