CBA Has Not Hurt Jameis

January 11th, 2018

Development has been fine.

Man, sometimes folks have to reach for an excuse.

Now before Joe gets rolling here, Joe has to be straight: He thinks the absolute world of Pat Kirwan. The former Bucs scout and Jets pro player personnel director co-hosts the best damned football radio show in the land, “Movin’ the Chains,” heard exclusively on SiriusXM NFL Radio.

Kirwan is fun as hell to talk to, a good guy, and just really, really intelligent when it comes to football X’s and O’s. But earlier this week, he really stubbed his toe.

A Titans caller had called Kirwan’s show Monday to groan about the ragged development of running quarterback Marcus Mariota. The caller whined about Mariota’s constant injuries and his inability to throw the ball deep and that all of his passes are “dink-and-dunk.”

Kirwan, for reasons unknown, decided to totally reach for an excuse for Mariota and invoked the name of America’s Quarterback, Pro Bowler Jameis Winston, into the conversation.

“It would be great to have [Mariota] around [the Titans’ training complex] all the time — and look at Jameis Winston,” Kirwan said. “Parallel paths, right? These are the quarterbacks who have suffered the most from the new CBA. First round draft picks expected to be on the field right away — and they were. And you don’t have the time with them to help them develop.”

Now hold up! First, can we quit calling the CBA (NFL collective bargaining agreement) the “new CBA?” It was voted on and approved by both the owners and players association in 2011. The current CBA expires in 2020. It’s a whole lot closer to old than new.

Second, not sure how anyone can gripe about the restraints of the CBA over six years later when it is now the norm.

It has its flaws, and Kirwan is correct that it drives coaches crazy because players are away from the team for so long in the offseason. A main issue is that once a season is over, coaches cannot have contact with players in any regard to football until the players return in April. This year, the Bucs are eligible to come back April 16.

Thing is, all 32 teams live by the same rule.

Jameis (and Mariota) have gone through three seasons so far. Hell, Jameis has set NFL passing records. Even Bill Belicheat raved about how well Jameis was coming along. How exactly has the CBA screwed up his development?

The CBA has nothing to do with fumbling. The CBA has nothing to do with playing with a bum shoulder. With Mariota, his constant injuries have stunted his growth a helluva lot more than the CBA.

Did the CBA screw up Cam Newton, Andrew Luck, Jared Goff or Carson Wentz? Shoot, under the same restrictions Jameis has to be under, Wentz likely would have been the NFL Offensive MVP this year in his second season had he not gotten hurt.

Luck was on his way to Canton had the Colts not botched his shoulder. Newton already has an NFL Offensive MVP on his mantel. Goff just led the Rams to the NFC West title.

Jameis’ biggest issue right now, other than slow starts, is his fumbling. No way you can tag that on the CBA.

Again, Joe loves Kirwan and sees him often at league functions. Thinks the world of him. It’s really a significant stretch, however, to somehow paint Jameis’ fumbling problems on the CBA. Not after three years in the league. Not when other rookie quarterbacks have been drafted and have thrived under the same labor agreement — before and after Jameis.

13 Responses to “CBA Has Not Hurt Jameis”

  1. Gencoimports Says:

    The 2011 CBA has watered down the game in general. The overall product isn’t as good, quarterbacking, tackling, you name it.

  2. Defense Rules Says:

    @Joe … “Jameis’ biggest issue right now, other than slow starts, is his fumbling. No way you can tag that on the CBA.” B-I-N-G-O !!! Jameis’ completion percentage has steadily improved, from 58.3% in 2015, to 60.8% in 2016 to 63.8% in 2017. That’s a very positive development IMO. He also cut way down on his INT percentage this year. Slow starts & fumbling wouldn’t seem to have much to do with the CBA, but both are fixable (with some more help from the OLine & RBs). The only place I can think of where the CBA might’ve impacted him is in his deep ball throwing. More reps with DJax for instance might’ve paid off, for Jameis, DJax and the T-E-A-M.

  3. HowToSpellRhonde Says:

    Why the need to play patty cake with Pat Kirwan? Maybe “nicest guy in the world” Mike Smith can come over and play tea this afternoon.

  4. Bob in Valrico Says:

    So with the broken up practice and non mandatory OTA’s schedule in place many teams have suffered a lot of injuries. Training camp is too easy now,its tackle football not flag football. Limiting the amount of time a player can put on pads is nonsense IMO.
    Football is their career and sometimes you have to put in extra work to hone your craft. Just the fact that Jameis and some of his receivers
    have had chemistry issues should make it obvious that
    the whole team would have benefited from a training camp free of micromanaging
    the CBA has created. Make OTA’s mandatory or drop some meaningless preseason games in the next CBA agreement.

  5. Bob in Valrico Says:

    The more the team simulates gametime conditions, Ie. pads, practices against
    other teams, improvement in chemistry and slow starts should be possible.

  6. Tampabaybucfan Says:

    Bad teams get high draft picks.
    Bad teams need a QB.
    Bad teams draft a QB.
    Bad teams play their rookie QBs.
    Changing the CBA won’t change that.

  7. GhostofSchiano Says:

    Give Jameis the Titans O-line and look out as the cannons will be on rapid fire.

    Give Mariota our WR’s an TE’s and watch the scoring onslaught.

    QB is perhaps the most important position but there are 10 other positions on the T-E-A-M. The other 22 (Defense & Special teams) must also produce.

    Would love to see the Bucs achieve the well roundedness the dominant teams of the past had.. 85 Bears etc.

  8. Wausa Says:

    Here is the biggest reasons Jamies struggled to get wins this year

    Bucs Rushing offense 27th
    Bucs FG% 28th
    Bucs opponents kick off return yards LAST
    Bucs Passing Defense LAST
    Bucs 3rd Down Defense LAST
    Bucs Sacks LAST
    Bucs Total Defense LAST

  9. The Buc Realist Says:

    I have heard Kirwan and Miller’s argument and agree with them, that all of those “non-mandatory” team functions did help young QB’s and especially O-lines!!!!! The writers here have said on multiple times how hard it is to develop O-line now a days!!!!! But some just hear the name of JW3 and are triggered and start bringing up “yardage” stats!!!!!! Seems like standard operations!!!!!

    Go Bucs!!!!!!!!

  10. BucFamous Says:

    Joe’s argument is faulty.

    More time with coaches means more time drilling technique—more time drilling technique could absolutely help reduce fumbling. And Kirwan is hardly the only one griping about the CBA—Chucky was just complaining about it this week. It sucks.


  11. StPeteBucsFan Says:

    Amen Joe!!! Bottom line is that the CBA is the same for everybody…all teams and every player.

    I never played in the NFL…hell I wasn’t good enough to play in college…but I just don’t understand any “lack of prep time” questions except for the team not the individual players.

    #3 and MM had nothing more to do with their time in the offseason than to work on their personal skill sets…footwork…throwing…and they could have concentrated on “personal” growth away from the requirements of organized camp.

    In theory this extra time away from camp gives them chances to actually IMPROVE their individual skills. See Drew Brees!

    Now it does detract from players being as certain with their responsibilities and learning the offensive and defensive systems. I can see the CBA making things difficult for the coaches who are concerned about TEAM. But it’s been good for individual players who have more free time than ever to work out with the best guru’s in strength…QB play…sports psychology….there are NO excuses for the players.

  12. Bucsfanman Says:

    Hold up now Joe. Jameis does not have a fumbling problem. In fact, just the other day, a witness said he walked across Lake Maggiore in St. Pete on his way to rescue a kitten from a tree. Not only did he use an alligator as a stepping stone, he was able to bring the furry little critter back home to its owners unharmed. Animals large and small gathered to see him at the waters edge.
    I hear that as he crossed the lake, a halo surrounded him and blanketed his every move.
    Does this sound like a guy with fumbling problems?!!!

  13. loggedontosay Says:


    Jameis’ fumbling is 70% Jameis and 30% other. I fail to understand how fumbling after being hit from your blind side is the fault of any QB. If Jameis did not take chances he would give up on 50% of the snaps. The Bucs have Jameis and superior receivers. The offensive line is very shaky. The running game is nonexistent. The offensive scheme is terribly predictable. I agree with that the problem with the Bucs is not the CBA. I disagree with you concerning the problem not being coaching. What Jameis is asked to do is so much more than what Mariota or Wentz is asked to do. I watched the playoff game, and their were throws that Mariota just cannot make. Throws that Jameis is required to make under pressure. Mariota had all day in the pocket. Our defense are just dummies that opposing team just runs around. Any chance Mike Smith will quit?