“Tight-Window” Turnaround

December 19th, 2017

Those fancy official NFL computer chips in balls and uniforms have churned out fresh and interesting data on America’s Quarterback, Jameis Winston.

Those “Next Gen” stats paint Jameis as a busy tight-window thrower but not much of a tight-window completer.

But that changed last night. Consider the following Next Gen readings via Matt Harmon from NFL.com.

One of the most aggressive quarterbacks in the NFL, we should always expect Winston to operate as a gunslinger. He has been exactly that this season, throwing 19.8 percent of his 2017 passes into tight windows (less than 1 yard of separation), the eighth-most among qualifying quarterbacks. Those plays haven’t bore good results. In Weeks 1 to 14, Winston maintained a 37.6 passer rating on tight-window throws, falling well below the NFL average thanks to five interceptions on 64 attempts.

Winston was noticeably better on this brand of throws [last night], looking much like the gifted quarterback we expected to see this year. He posted a sterling 144.3 passer rating on his tight-window passes against the Falcons, consistently drilling the ball into confined quarters. Winston also posted the type of highlight-reel plays one wants to see from a developing quarterback, especially one surrounded by a stable of talented players. Most notably, his deep touchdown toss to Mike Evans traveled 50.9 yards of distance in the air, the third-longest completion of the week.

Interesting to learn that Jameis throws the “eighth-most” balls into tight windows. Is that on Jameis and his decision-making, the receivers, or both?

That’s a good number to cut. But that total doesn’t matter when you’re a surgeon like Jameis was last night, on the move and in the pocket. Obviously, Jameis has it in him.

Joe would love to see last night’s kind of precision in the final two games. It would say a lot. And it could save jobs. A lot of jobs.

121 Responses to ““Tight-Window” Turnaround”

  1. buddy Says:

    Hey Joe?? Who got the most first downs in the game?? LOL. Tight Window Stat?? Another dumb stat that nobody cares about. Here’s a stat -BUCS LOST AGAIN last night under #KluelessKoetter. Team Glazer better realize this is the only stat that matters.

  2. Negative Jeff Says:

    JW had a nice tight window, but can’t rely on that game in and game out. Too risky. Simple as that. Atlanta’s defense is barely average, made JW look really good.

  3. DB55 Says:

    I see the Tampa Bay Methheads are out in full force today.

  4. mark2001 Says:

    Agreed… Jameis looked like a number 1 pick last night. Now if he can take it to the next level with consistency, the sky is the limit.

  5. Lakeland Says:

    I have been saying this all season. The Atlanta Falcons are not a good football team. Teams are giving the Falcons wins, they are pretenders not contenders.

  6. Broy34 Says:

    It’s not a loser stat when it shows how precise our franchise QB was last night. He shut alot of haters up. And interesting it happened when Koetter didn’t do 7 step drops repeatedly

  7. mark2001 Says:

    Negative… sure…Jameis did have a few throws that made you hold your breath. But he was on last night. Just imagine if we had a D that gave him another few possessions every game and a real starting Running back? I think he needs better coaching…but the somewhat raw talent is obvious.

  8. miken Says:

    Very good game by jw. Not sure how the d held them to 24. By the end of the game, it looked like a preseason game with so many starters out. Hopefully, none of the injuries are too serious. I like watching Peyton Barber run and if utilized correctly, our 2 Tightends and 13 and 11 should be torching defenses

  9. mark2001 Says:

    Lakeland…you know who looked to be lacking in throwing accuracy last night, don’t you? Ryan could barely hit the broadside of a barn. One game like that against a good D in the playoffs, and they are gone.

  10. mark2001 Says:

    miken…if Ryan hadn’t been all over the place, it might have been a much greater spread. He missed at least two TD passes he should have had…one where Jones was breaking wide open deep. He usually doesn’t miss those…but then, I don’t think he is any Aaron Rodgers.

  11. JimBuc2 Says:

    Bah, humbug! A lump of coal for JW haters Christmas stocking!! Credit where credit is due. Jameis was in Beast Mode. BTW, kudos to Monken for calming down excitable boy Mike Evans, who caught that bomb after Todd chilled him out. Furthermore, stumblebum ref should have put those 4 seconds back on the clock. What a great game to watch; hate the loss, but then again that is why it’s called sport. Why on God’s good earth did the team let Matt Bryan walk? That 57 yarder would have been good from 62. For the memory impaired Bryan did that for Gruds against the Jets a lifetime ago. Not to mention letting Bennet escape to Seattle.

  12. Lakeland Says:


    Matty Bum is a garbage QB

    The Falcons might not make the playoffs

    If they do get in, it’s one and done

    The Falcons pass defense rating is 95.8

    The Bucs pass defense rating is 95.4

    The Falcons don’t give up the big plays

    But teams are completing 66% of passes against them

    And they only have 4 INT on the season

  13. Bucamania Says:

    Good to see the Jameis we think he is last night. Great game by him!

  14. Cover Deuce Says:

    It’s probably a little of both. He has always been an anticipation thrower, which when it works (like last night) is tough to stop. But, when it doesn’t, you get the uneven results of the previous 14 weeks. The fact remains that this offense has too many weapons to require JW to be throwing his receivers open that much though.

  15. derrickbrooksforGM Says:

    Hell of a game for 3. He seems to have created a nice fak it attitude. Forget how around here was like just let him throw. Good stuff, damn right. Anyone know why JW lost the C?

  16. Lakeland Says:

    The Bucs should have beaten the Falcons last night. They were playing at home on a long rest. I know they had players out, but what NFL team don’t have players out? There is no winners on the losing team. The Bucs lost a game that they should have won.

  17. FR Says:


  18. Lamarcus Says:

    JW and Ryan didn’t have thier C on the chest.

  19. AlteredEgo Says:

    Jameis needs to build on everything he did right last night !….it was wonderful to see….his footwork and mechanics were responsible for his accuracy….his taking what he saw rather than waiting and looking for heroics resulted in moving the chains….very happy

  20. Lord Cornelius Says:

    “Is that on Jameis and his decision-making, the receivers, or both?”

    It’s on the play design more than any of that imo.

    Last night was better. It’s almost as if Koetter read some of the comments by us on here; because he featured less deep drops and more quick rythm passes and look what f*cking happened. Night and day.

    He also had Howard drop into space as an outlet option; and it was a huge YAC TD / easy play for WInston. Hm wonder if any posters on JBF were asking for this all year?

    If you watch other successful offensive teams – their play design will typically result in a at least a couple big chunk plays a game that are super easy for the QB to execute / complete due to the play getting a guy wide open. Over the course of a season that adds up in terms of QB numbers/ offensive numbers / everything. We haven’t been creative enough to make it easier on whoever plays QB in this system; but last night was a sign of potential adaptation and growth at least.

    IF we keep Koetter – make Monken the play caller /OC; and use an offensive philosophy as laid out by LC / Son of Kobe Faker / Kobe Faker lol 🙂

  21. Bobby M. Says:

    The talent is there….its the history of inconsistency that haunts him. He’s also drifting into McCoy waters of a perception of losing. McCoy is a top tier player, but he’ll never get credit for his talent because the teams he’s led have sucked. Winston is starting to get that feel, except i wouldn’t call him top tier…but he has the ability to excel but even when he has a great night, it ends in losing.

  22. pewterpirate99 Says:

    buddy Says:
    December 19th, 2017 at 11:22 am
    Hey Joe?? Who got the most first downs in the game?? LOL. Tight Window Stat?? Another dumb stat that nobody cares about. Here’s a stat -BUCS LOST AGAIN last night under #KluelessKoetter. Team Glazer better realize this is the only stat that matters.

    Absof@$kinglutely buddy, I agree with you 200%! At the end of the day and season the only stats that matter to me as a fan are wins and loses, end of conversation. 4-12, 5-11, 6-10 are repugnant stats!

  23. Lord Cornelius Says:

    “Absof@$kinglutely buddy, I agree with you 200%! At the end of the day and season the only stats that matter to me as a fan are wins and loses, end of conversation. 4-12, 5-11, 6-10 are repugnant stats!”

    So why are you here lol?

    Should JBF just make one article that says “WE LOST” with our record and we can all just collectively talk about how miserable we all are in the comments?

    That’s pretty much what you’re suggesting.

    Obviously wins and losses are all that matters in terms of how you define the success of a season. You might as well say “we need to score more points than the other team to win!”

  24. Nate Says:

    lets remember…..Atlanta’s Defense let Miami win the game when they competed and kept it close

    so lets not throw a parade down dale mabry yet…..real hard test is the saints and panthers

  25. 813bucboi Says:

    dirk still cant get this offense to score more than 21 points…..he’s still making coaching 101 mistakes…..

    bottom line is we still haven’t gotten better as a team or coaching staff from the beginning of the year….this has been the theme under this staff….

    still making simple mistakes players and coaches….still cant score….one side of the ball continues to not show up on game day….still have no identity….that’s just bad coaching!!!

    dirk is holding this team back with his incompetence and poor coaching….we wont get better until his sh!t is packed in a PODS container!!!!!….GO BUCS!!!

  26. Lord Cornelius Says:

    “813bucboi Says:
    December 19th, 2017 at 12:59 pm
    dirk still cant get this offense to score more than 21 points…..he’s still making coaching 101 mistakes…..”

    Honestly I thought he called a decent offensive game last night. If not for a Peyton Barber fumble it’s a 4 TD night and a great overall outing.

    In general he’s sucked 4ss all year as a play caller / OC; but for one night at least he seemed to have a good game plan on that side of the ball lol

  27. Drew Says:

    Drew respectfully bows for his direct involvement in the Next Gen Stats hardware infra-structure and tags. It’s so cool to see the fruits of your labor being discussed on your favorite Bucs website and team.

    Next year is the year! Any chance Gruden comes back?

    Thank you Joe.

  28. Big Stinky Says:

    You guys are too funny! We ALL overreact every week it seems like. One game and that’s the franchise QB we drafted. Not quite! Easy tiger! Winston’s QBR was 42.5 going into last nights game, which was 25th in the league. Not exactly ELITE! And he threw another INT that was called back. He did play better though!

  29. AlteredEgo Says:

    Slow your rollz folks….this team is still a work in progress….this season was never going to be in the NFC Championship game….it is more than…play doesn’t work….”terrible play calling”…man for man…position for position…2 years of admitted REBUILDING….laughable disillusionment

  30. Lamarcus Says:

    Great game Bucs. Win or lose love to see the fight and bodies sacrificing on Prime time is encouraging. Better than past blowout results. Then to think it’s a meaningless game they sure didn’t play like it. Good job Bucs

  31. Bucsfanman Says:

    It’s one good game sandwiched by lots of bad ones, in a loss. I would like to see more consistency. I think these next 2 games will be extremely important for the team as a whole.

  32. Big Stinky Says:

    I thought Jameis was playing better than last season before he got hurt, at least protecting the ball. Even the piece they did on ESPN that showed his balls plummeting like ducks made me remember that. He has improved under Koetter IMO. Still think Jameis needs some competition for his job before he signs a new contract. Maybe Case Keenum is available next year. At least he couldn’t beat us a fourth time that way.

  33. DB55 Says:


    Man if you only heard the tirade I cuss words I just threw your way. The kid was hurt for half the season. He virtually played a perfect game and you want him to do that every week? Gfy cuz meanwhile your 16 mill dollar ice cream man has been getting a pass for years. You people vex me

  34. Blake_Bucsfan Says:

    @Big Stinky

    Ok. I agree with you that Jameis was indeed playing better before the injury/ injuries, under Koetter.

    But I would also argue that Koetter’s offense. Which is predicated on the Long passing game, is a large reason for James getting hurt in the first place.

    And then there is the other elephant in the room. Which is that under Koetter, we have consistently struggled to score more than 20 points per game. And that is a massive indictment of his ability to craft a truly elite offense.

  35. DB55 Says:

    Did you guys notice how often Jameis was getting hit within 1-2 seconds of getting the snap? Did you notice how many times he got sacked or hit? Did you notice how much time he had in the pocket? Did you notice him getting up limping every play? Did ya? Did ya?

  36. Son of Kobe Faker Says:

    definitely we witnessed a different mental approach, JW came in last night

    he was not as hyper and erratic.

    his mechanics was much more fluid.

    His footwork was more precise and didnt seem like he was going to drunkardly trip like before

    His arm motion was definately more wippy and had more zip. seemed with better emotional composure, his touch throws were accurate with speed and location

    what we saw the past few weeks was JWs lack of body lean/angle in what ever he did. dropback, slide steps, ….always wrong body angle

    Jameis flaws is very correctable as we can all see from last night. this is a easy fix for a experienced qualified NFL coaches…just technical stuff

    What Jameis has that Dak, Goff, Mariota, Bortles, DWatson, and the rest of the young QBs even wentz is

    the confidence to throw downfield before the wrs break with accuracy and timing. Jameis was born with that talent that none of the others have…with consistancy it is non defendable

    repetiton builds that constincy, but only perfect practice creates perfection.

    views and opinions from the Faker family basement war room

  37. ClwJB Says:

    Looked like a mature, patient passer last night, exactly what we all hoped for- now lets see it two more times in a row

    IMO, he can save the HC’s job with two more outings like last night…the Glazers kept DK to develop JW and if he shows that it is coming along, with all the BS we have endured this year on D, @ RB, the injury bug -he may have one more shot at it

  38. Son of Kobe Faker Says:


    Our family name was ridiculed from the 2not joes for being the first in all tampa area months ago that removing 2016 Hawley and putting marpet at center was a mistake….My Dad was 100% correct with his evaluations….

    “please apologize”

    Son of Kobe Faker

  39. unbelievable Says:

    That was one of the best games he has played, start to finish.

    It’s a shame some of the skills position players let the offense down.

    But hey every week we find a new way to lose. At least there’s some variety!

  40. Mike Johnson Says:

    Everybody is worried about Mr. Jameis. I’m not. I’m worried about the 2 or 3 yrs its going to take this poor Pityful Defense to turn around. Until then, Our Bucs, your Bucs will Not..reach that promise land So..Grab Some Wood. ….We got more losses comin our way. And If we keep DC Pressbox Smitty next year? Look for more of the same record wise. The truth hurts huh?

  41. unbelievable Says:

    How about the missing captain’s patch?

  42. Bucsfanman Says:

    Whoa, whoa, whoa DB55. Don’t taze me bro!
    You KNOW he needs to be more consistent. I don’t expect him to play “perfect” but I expect him to play more consistently. I don’t think that’s an unfair statement.
    Caffeine is not your friend right now dude!

  43. Eric Says:

    Not convinced that he will realize his potential with Dirk.

    But nobody can say he does not possess the skill set.

  44. Bucsfanman Says:

    Also, you’re always quick to throw out GMC as a comparison. If GMC had the same level of talent on defense that Jameis has on offense we wouldn’t be having these $16 million dollar conversations.
    Incidentally, this is a T-E-A-M game and this team is not good enough to overcome it’s own mistakes or weaknesses, regardless of how well Jameis plays. Case in point Falcons 24-Bucs 21.
    Does JW’s game nullify?:
    1. Barber’s fumble?
    2. Horrific defense?
    3. Drops?
    4. P/I penalties?
    5. Missed FG?
    The fact is that Jameis had a great game. The rest of the team maybe not so much!

  45. Pierce Says:

    Man they got a stat for everything.

  46. Defense Rules Says:

    Lord C (12:09 & 1:05 PM) … Spot on analysis. Have no idea why DK has insisted on self-destructing via so many deep balls all year, but last night he really did call a very good game emphasizing the short & intermediate stuff. That said, we’re STILL stuck putting up our season average of 21 points. Last 4 games: 21, 21, 20, 20. Pretty consistent. Unfortunately, the Bucs’ defense has also been pretty consistent in our last 4 games: 24, 24, 26, 34. So has the W-L record: 0-4. On the good news side, we’ve moved up to #4 in the lottery. What do you think the odds are that our illustrious GM actually drafts a DE or DT in the 1st round?

  47. What in the buc Says:

    What stood out to me the most last night was how many mistakes our defense made and how many times we got gashed for big plays… there is no excuse for 10 players on the field none at all, what do they coaches for? Oh yeah that’s right to coach…..

  48. Defense Rules Says:

    @Mike Johnson … “And If we keep DC Pressbox Smitty next year? Look for more of the same record wise. The truth hurts huh?” Truth only hurts when it’s the truth Mike. What I saw last night was a bunch of 2nd & 3rd stringers playing their butts off against a very talented Falcons team. Their communication sucked (thus the open holes?) but they played with heart, and that’s encouraging to me. I’m not at all impressed with the talent on defense, but I’m very impressed that they fought & fought & fought.

    Smitty’s been coaching football for a long, long time & has had excellent success during those years. You don’t survive that long at the NFL level unless ownership is convinced that you know what you’re doing. We’ll run him, and most likely his assistant coaches, out of town eventually, maybe even this coming year, BUT … unless ownership & the GM drastically upgrade the talent level on defense, it won’t matter who they bring in to replace him. Smitty’s not the problem; neither is Dirk Koetter. But we both know who is.

  49. Lord Cornelius Says:

    “What do you think the odds are that our illustrious GM actually drafts a DE or DT in the 1st round?”

    I hope it’s a 100% lock lol.

    My offseason wishlist in terms of the lines is to move Gerald McCoy for anything you can get; and cut Baker/Ayers/Sweezy. Use the saved cap $$ to sign the best DE, DT, & OG on the market.

    Then in the draft; get Chubb R1; go DT R2; and use R3 picks on a RT & OG.

    R4 go RB. R5-R7 take DT/DE and another RB.

    LG-newly signed dude or R3 pick
    RG-newly signed dude or R3 pick
    RT-Dotson/developmental R3 pick

    Could also move Marpet back to RG and draft a C in R3; or sign one; but I am fine with leaving him at C. Marpet graded out as PFF’s 6th best Center – so apparently they thought he was balling even though that isn’t the narrative here; despite Marpet grading out as the best player according to the staff many weeks.

    DE-Bradley Chubb
    DT-premium FA – Sheldon Rankins or something
    DT-Clinton McDonald
    DE-premium FA – Lawrence or Ansah

    Then you have Spence / Gholston as your 3rd / 4th DEs for either pass rushing or run stuffing situations; and your high R2 pick rotating with McDonald; and another DT/DE as late round developmental players for depth

    That’d be one way to blow it up and compete immediatley next year with the new group. We can’t fix the D-line in the draft only – those players need time to have an impact. We have to sign 2 impact players on top of drafting 2 imo.

  50. Lord Cornelius Says:

    In that scenario I’m assuming we can get a 3rd for McCoy. I’d hope a 2nd but 3rd should be realistic.

  51. pewterpirate99 Says:

    Lord Cornelius Says:
    December 19th, 2017 at 12:36 pm
    “Absof@$kinglutely buddy, I agree with you 200%! At the end of the day and season the only stats that matter to me as a fan are wins and loses, end of conversation. 4-12, 5-11, 6-10 are repugnant stats!”

    So why are you here lol?

    Should JBF just make one article that says “WE LOST” with our record and we can all just collectively talk about how miserable we all are in the comments?

    That’s pretty much what you’re suggesting.

    Obviously wins and losses are all that matters in terms of how you define the success of a season. You might as well say “we need to score more points than the other team to win!”

    Hey Lord Cornhole I’m here because I’m a pissed off Buccaneer fan that’s had enough of mediocrity and losing and I’m not going sugar coat a damn thing. I’m sorry that you think we should all be positive and point out the bright spots…… A LOT OF US HAVE HAD ENOUGH!!! Am I suppose to be doing cart wheels because they had a somewhat good game? Not going to happen, my standards are a lot higher than that.

  52. T"CHALLA Says:

    Nonsensesical stat. you have to understand . The issue of the tight window correlates to how much separation the receiver has from the defender. No separation tight window. Also whether the Defense was in zone or man to man will also dictate whether you have a tight window or not . Last this is the NFL to be successful your Quarterback has to complete a tight window pass.

  53. Son of Kobe Faker Says:


    Did it help or hurt koetter? i actually think it hurts him. very good QB and off skilled players and the team is 4-12? its HC fault

    I think nationally, all the top HC prospects know they can win with Jameis if hired in tampa. the offensive playcaller HC prospects are licking their chops because of all the possibilities with Jameis and the offensive players

    is it just our family that thought last night Grudog wasnt stating a few things and holding back/biting his lip…our family thought he was talking and writing down on his paper plays for jameis and the offense for next year

    “this is what i would do…”

    “if i…”

    “why did you do that? I would have”

    ****very interesting no comment on grumors withe the tampa bay bucs last night. i think ESPN was especially involved in not pushing that. We think ESPN is worried of losing gruden

    “It is too quiet before the storm”

    Son of Kobe Faker

  54. Lord Cornelius Says:

    “Am I suppose to be doing cart wheels because they had a somewhat good game? Not going to happen, my standards are a lot higher than that.”

    No but maybe you should go outside and take a breath or something. No Bucs fans are out celebrating this loss right now. Everyone knows the season has been sh1t. Many are just commenting on the team or players in general right now and trying to figure out what needs changing / what we can build on / etc.

    Coming in here to state the obvious adds absolutely nothing to any conversation and is completely pointless; but if it feels good to vent then get it out of your system brother we’re all suffering together lol

  55. Bucsfanman Says:

    LC- I’m not dogging McDonald, but what’s with the love? He’s a serviceable DT, nothing exciting and 30 years old.
    I can’t really argue with your wishlist other than to say that it’s a COMPLETE rebuild on d-line. It scares me!

  56. Stevbobucsfan Says:

    I have no idea who’s at fault or what the bucs problems are. They had a damn good game with half the starters out and could have won if they would’ve had just 1 more minute or the defense had held Atlanta to a field goal. Please please somebody tell me what wrong with this team

  57. TouchDownTampaBay Says:

    Kobe you are simply wrong. I think last night confirmed for me that Gruden had no interest in coming back to Tampa to coach. He was critical of Jameis before the game really started and all of his mistakes throughout the year. He talked a lot about how lethal turnovers are. If he comes back I think he wants a game manager type ala Brad Johnson that doesn’t turn the ball over. He also had to watch that sh1t show Tampa runs out on defense and I am sure he wants no part of that garbage pile,

  58. DB55 Says:

    Here’s a stat the falcons are 9-0 when the off scores 20 points.

  59. DB55 Says:

    This wasn’t even Jameis best game of the year. See buffalo. If we only had an 8x probowler on def who is the best at his position oh how far we would go.

  60. Bucsfanman Says:

    Oh DB! How do we get beyond the rhetoric?
    On GMC your ire is misplaced. You saw how hard the back-ups played. As hard as they played they STILL could not tackle or rush the passer. It takes more than one player. A good DT is not enough. We need DEs, LBs, DBs, and Safeties too. I don’t understand why you will not acknowledge that this team does not have any talent.
    Anyway, I can’t keep arguing this point. This whole team is terrible and EVERYBODY on it needs work! The ones that intend to stay anyway!

  61. SKBucsFan Says:

    JW looked good last night. I will give him credit for keeping us in it. We didn’t get the win, but the need for wins has passed us by. Right now we need good performances we can build on, and a higher draft pick(s). Can he keep it up? Let’s hope so.

    Sadly, like a true Bucs fan , I am already excited about the draft and looking forward to next year.

  62. DoNUTS Says:

    I agree with opinion that Winston was very good last night. My sense he has turned the corner in the past 2 games but he has a history of inconsistency so I would like to see it twice more to end the season before the final assessment is in on him. Once history is written, Winston may write something nice about Koetter and how the sit down helped him grow in 2017 as a QB. I personally dont think he was hurt to the point he could not play.

    DB55- Buffalo game was good but he had a turnover so sorry but your wrong. A turnover free game is key for every QB. We all know the turnover battle is key to the W. Last night the def line, lost the game by not putting any pressure on QB and no run Def in critical times. Ryan uniform was so white after the first half that I thought someone bleached his uni then I realized the Bucs never made contact with the QB and it made sense.

  63. DB55 Says:

    Jameis won 9 games last year with 1 drafted skill player. Same last night he played with 1 drafted skill player. So wtf are you talking about. Now imagine jw made 16mil a year and did nothing all season. Pssft

  64. DB55 Says:

    Donuts name me q.v. who has gone a season without a TO. It’s part of the game folks and idgaf what you say a 2nd qrt TO does not cost u the game ESPECIALLY when you have the FCKN lead with 3 mins left in the game.

    Where’s your all-world captain then?

  65. DB55 Says:

    Jameis plays with a bum shoulder = he’s inconsistent not accurate

    Gmc sits bc of a non-surgical bicep injury that others play thru = hof dt

  66. Lamarcus Says:

    JW best game came from Buffalo agreement w db55

    It’s still bad that we have a guy soooo young still carrying the team. Being in 3 yes or not no way should a young Qb carry a team. With that said Jw is a elite Qb already. Hurt or not. JW haters he ain’t got nothing else to prove. Nothing.

  67. SteelStudBuc Says:

    Throwing into tight windows… aka hanging Cam Brate out to dry… how many times do u have see your own teammates getting nuked till u stop doing that?
    He played a great game I’ll give him that. I was impressed but you’re nothing without your teammates healthy.

  68. Defense Rules Says:

    @Bucsfanman … “How do we get beyond the rhetoric?” GREAT question. Answer is (tada) … You don’t. So many JBF commenters have made up their minds about WHATEVER is wrong with the Bucs & have zero inclination to change their minds. Your summation … “A good DT is not enough. We need DEs, LBs, DBs, and Safeties too” … should be self-evident to anyone who followed the Bucs this year, but alas it’s much easier to write “Throw Smitty to the wolves; Koetter to follow.”

  69. Lord Cornelius Says:


    I guess I was just thinking he’s the only DT I’d keep. Not expensive and a solid starter; vs not being able to really justify keeping Baker.

    I personally thought our natural front 4 pass rush was better last night than what I’ve seen recently with McCoy in the game. Visibly there were multiple plays the interior of the line got a push and created pressure and/or hit Ryan.

    I’m not a D-line expert; but this is my personal theory:

    1 – If McCoy’s first quick step is negated – he is typically useless and completely taken out of the play – to the point that he doesn’t even maintain gap integrity.

    2.- a DT who can push the pocket via brute strength / hands and athleticism; is more valuable imo than a pure speed rushing DT. It isn’t his only move – and there are times he wins with leverage / strength but it just seems he gets blown out of the play too often. There has to be a reason no DE or DT has ever seen their play improve at all by playing next to McCoy. I think it’s because of his style of play. When he doesn’t get his first step he is pushed off to the side and doesn’t collapse the pocket; which makes it super hard for any DE to get to the QB.

    Really the main thing with GMC though is I am just not into his personality as a leader. Too Soft. Not the type of culture we need.

  70. Lakeland Says:

    A 4-10 team can’t have “Elite” players. That’s the reality of a team that stinks.

  71. DB55 Says:


    So Eli is not elite? 2x Sb mvp is not elite? Ok.

  72. DB55 Says:


    McDonald had a 4th qrt sack on 3rd down while being double teamed. Holy chit what a concept. He makes 3mil a yr. ijs.

  73. Chris Says:

    Just imagine if that team last night had an AVERAGE nfl passrush? They would be in the playoffs for sure.

  74. Lakeland Says:

    Eli is no where near Elite, maybe extinct, but not elite.

  75. miken Says:

    Qb plays best game of year, we have weapons at wr and te, and we don’t turn it over but 21 is still all we can score… ugh. I have a feeling Dirk stays because no sure fire coaches out there.

  76. Lakeland Says:

    Jim Plunkett has 2 Super Bowls rings. No one is trying to put him in the Hall of fame.

  77. DB55 Says:


    Last night you said none of the NFC South QB are elite yet they’ve all won mvps and been to the Sb. SO what do you define as elite?

  78. miken Says:

    Sorry, except we did turn it over with barber fumble and when they fumble, we cant get on it.

  79. Buccaneer Bonzai Says:

    miken Says
    “…and when they fumble, we cant get on it.”

    We’re near the top in takeaways, so that point is not valid.

  80. Lakeland Says:


    In 2017 Matt Ryan had an elite season, but he’s not a elite QB

    In 2016 Cam Newton had a elite season, but he’s not a elite QB

    Drew Brees use to be elite, but he’s not elite now

    Jameis Winston hasn’t shown elite abilities

  81. miken Says:

    @lakeland… plunkett would be in the Hall if he didn’t have poor stats at the beging of his career and injuries at the end. He used to come up for debate every year and has better (or a good) of stats has Namath and is close to Stabler.

  82. Lakeland Says:

    I meant 2016 and 2017 season for Matt Ryan and Cam Newton

  83. Lakeland Says:

    2015 and 2016

  84. Buccaneer Bonzai Says:

    There is no doubt that McCoy is double and triple teamed for a reason. No point in denying that. If Mark Dominick had built a halfway decent line around him, McCoy would have been a 12-14 sack guy. He’s wasted his career here.

    Which is why I think they should trad him for a first and forth to a team that can compete. It allows us to go younger, and it allows him to get a chance for a ring before he’s done.

    And he is the most valuable player on defense.

    And while we are talking trades, I would trade Ward and DJax too, if there are any takers. I am of the strong belief that had Jameis not been trying so hard to connect with DJax, he would have had a better year.

    And DJax is so overrated it isn’t funny. He;s afraid of taking hits, he doesn’t fight for the ball, and he drops far too many passes.

  85. Buccaneer Bonzai Says:

    Assuming Jon Gruden isn’t getting the job this year.

  86. GhosofSchiano Says:

    JOE. I was at the game last night. Stayed in my seat for half time. There is no denying that Gruden is returning. The body language and facial expressions during Grudens speech was clear and convincing evidence that he is returning. He loves Tampa, Tampa loves him. It is going to happen. Any one else see the whole ceremony last night?

  87. Bucamania Says:

    Agree on DJax. That guy isn’t fighting for the ball or extra yards for anything. Let’s DBs undercut his routes. I’m done with him.

  88. GhosofSchiano Says:

    Talking about the Glazers body language and facial expressions

  89. Lakeland Says:

    I tried to warn the posters on here

    The Bucs shouldn’t sign DeSean Jackson

    They should sign Robert Woods

  90. GhosofSchiano Says:

    Loved the videos of Gruden during the game, wonder if I bothered koetter? I hope so

  91. miken Says:

    sorry Ghost but Gruden isn’t returning. I wish, but it ain’t happening.

  92. miken Says:

    but Ghost, he’s gonna make the Glazzer boys beg before he tells them no.

  93. GhosofSchiano Says:


    Watch the expressions and non verbal cues between the Glazers and Gruden.

  94. Lamarcus Says:

    Prove to me how JW is not elite??? Otherwise y’all fantasy football/Madden geniuses dont know a thing about what it takes to be a elite Qb.

  95. derrickbrooksforGM Says:

    Anyone here actually watch Djax before he came here? He didn’t need to fight for balls he’s not a freakin possession receiver. His job is to get open which he does, only JW can’t hit the broad side of a barn let alone hit DJAX back shoulder.

    It’s not Koetter’s fault, beginning of the season he has some really good deep routes for Djax but JW couldn’t hit them so now he’s forces in these awful drag routes in traffic, not his cup of tea. Glazers should be furious they are paying millions for what a rookie could do. So much fail with this team.

  96. Lakeland Says:

    Elite Definition

    A select part of a group that is superior to the rest in terms of ability or qualities.

    So that’s Jameis Winston?


  97. Lakeland Says:

    derrickbrooksforGM Says:

    That’s exactly why it made more sense for them to sign Robert Woods

  98. Lakeland Says:

    So Jameis Winston throws for 299 yards, 3 TD against the Falcons. And now he’s an “Elite” QB.

  99. DB55 Says:


    You’re delusional if you think he’ll get anything more than a 5th rnd pick. Me may have to give up a 1st in order to get him off the team. Dude is fra-gee-lee

  100. 813bucboi Says:


    play calling was decent…cant deny that….but not calling a T.O. was just plain stupid….who knows…DF might’ve fumbled on the next play….he did put it on the ground twice…..

    but it is what it is….on to CAR…..this should be good….GO BUCS!!!

  101. DB55 Says:


    I haven’t heard Carr, Geoff, Wentz or Mariota compared to Marino or about to brake any nfl passing records but wtf dik.

  102. Lakeland Says:


    None of those Bums that you mention are no where near “Elite”.

  103. Lord Cornelius Says:


    For sure man. That was a joke lol.

    I’m starting to study up on the draft now. At least we can’t lose any games in April

  104. DB55 Says:

    I just want to know who’s elite? Brady?

  105. Lakeland Says:


    In my opinion

    Tom Brady is the only “Elite” QB

    Superior to the rest of them

  106. DB55 Says:


    The only reason Brady is elite is bc kraft and Goodell are bff’s. No coincidence that the pats get every call imaginable to let them win. But wtfdik

  107. Arealbucsfan Says:

    JW isn’t elite. He has the potential tho

  108. Son of Kobe Faker Says:

    Gruden respects the coaching fraternity and personally likes koetter.

    If there was no interest, gruden would have had made a statement by now that he has no interest and will not be the tampa bay buc HC. It would have helped koetter stop all these grumors…but he hasnt because he wants to be hc in 2018

    I think espn is nervous

  109. Lamarcus Says:

    Ur right. Superior of qualities and ability.

    Didn’t JW last night throw the ball with unmatched velocity??

    When the last time u seen a Qb throw like that? From start to finish. Cuz he doesn’t display it game in or out is a testiment to Koetter not JW. JW was throwing better than Rogers and Brady or ur boy Wentz. Sorry. I watch alot of games it happens to our Qb made those throws.

  110. Lamarcus Says:

    Lakeland Says:
    December 19th, 2017 at 5:08 pm
    So Jameis Winston throws for 299 yards, 3 TD against the Falcons. And now he’s an “Elite” QB.

    F the box score. JW made throws Brady, Manning, Wentz wishes they can throw on a dime.

    That’s was truly amazing and happy to have JW than any Qb in the league.

  111. playerunknown Says:

    Last night was the first time Jamies carried the team.

  112. orlbucfan Says:

    What’s with all the Gruden love? I listened to the entire game, and surprised myself. Skipped the halftime so I could miss the Gruden hot air. Bucs played tough and DK got halfway imaginative regarding his offense. Dixie chicks had all the luck: fumbles bouncing back into their hands, no injuries, some questionable calls (SOS), a ref falling down and costing Bucs some precious seconds right at game’s end, etc. Bucs still almost pulled this one out. No reason why they can’t win the last 2 games. Fameis was on a mission, and so was his supporting cast. Get rid of Smith and keep DK. Go Bucs!!

  113. WyomingBucsFan Says:

    ESPN was trolling Jon Gruden last night, they reminded him he was fired from the bucs 4 different times. On his night they tried to embarrass him, ESPN knows hes leaving and there is bad blood. Only thing i’m extremely concerned about is this ownership dropping the ball. Imagine Gruden going to the raiders and ending up in a Superbowl. That would be the nail in the coffin for me and a lot of Bucs fans.

  114. 941bucsfan Says:

    The same idiots here downplaying JW play, because of how bad the Atlanta’s defense has been, Are the same idiots that wont give him credit for throwing for 3tds and almost 400 yards ANDDDDD taking a 4th qtr lead with less than 4 minutes to go on the Road in Buffalo against a top ranked defense Scoring and Yards wise.

  115. Lamarcus Says:

    Naw man. They mad at JW cuz he doesn’t play like their created player on Madden my career mode on Easy Get y’all heads off the video game and learn something from Jw

  116. nole4JabooANDdBucs Says:

    A select part of a group that is superior to the rest in terms of ability or qualities

    ONLY elite players make it to the NFL. The problem is they are competing against other elite players
    Dduuuuhhhh! The word is thrown around without realizing the meaning!

  117. nole4JabooANDdBucs Says:

    Jameis is Elite!

  118. Lakeland Says:

    Six QBs are name to the Pro Bowl roster. But none are name Jameis Winston, but he is “Elite”? I have to quit coming to this site. Nothing makes sense here.

  119. nole4JabooANDdBucs Says:


  120. nole4JabooANDdBucs Says:

    Pro Bowl showcases only 6 of the 32 elite QB’s. Some of the elite can’t participate if playing in the SB, and others are chosen as replacement such as JW!🤔

  121. BucsFan90 Says:


    What an asinine argument. By your logic Aaron Rodgers isn’t elite