Hall Of Fame Voter (Not Ira): Jameis Looks Like The Next Josh Freeman

December 13th, 2017

D. Orlando Ledbetter

When it comes to Falcons football, there is one giant authoritative voice. It’s Hall of Fame voter and beat writer D. Orlando Ledbetter of the Atlanta Journal-Constitution.

And Ledbetter is not impressed by America’s Quarterback, Jameis Winston.

In his popular weekly blog column today, the headline sent Joe running for the nearest toilet: “Is Jameis Winston The Next Josh Freeman?”


Here’s an excerpt:

1. THE FAMILY FEUD.  The Bucs have regressed in Jameis Winston’s third season as the starter and now there’s talk of coach Dirk Koetter possibly getting fired.

Things didn’t come together for the Bucs and there’s been some bizarre behavior by their once-prized Heisman Trophy winner. Instead of looking like the franchise quarterback, he’s looking more like another Bucs’ flash-in-the-pan quarterback, Josh Freeman.

Freeman, a first-round pick out of Kansas State was the savior from 2009-13. He posted a 24-35 record (.406) as a starter. Winston is on the same trajectory.

He’s posted a 17-25 record as a starter (.404).

The Bucs must have doubts whether Winston is the guy to lead their return from the division basement after the sexual harassment allegation with an Uber driver surfaced. There was the weird licking a W pre-game speech and Winston instigating a fight on the sidelines between wide receiver Mike Evans and Saints cornerback Marshon Lattimore this season.

He’s talented, but a little weird.

The Falcons, who faced Ryan Fitzpatrick in their 34-20 win on Nov. 26, are pushing all of the bizarre stuff to side. They still respect Winston’s play-making ability.

(There’s more via the link above.)

That Freeman-clone winning percentage is a punch in the gut and it makes the comparison fair.

Jameis sure is under the microscope across the country, and especially from a healthy percentage of Buccaneers fans. That heat will get cranked up on the next edition of Monday Night Football against the Falcons.

Outside of Dirk Koetter, nobody needs a couple of wins to close this season more than Jameis.

111 Responses to “Hall Of Fame Voter (Not Ira): Jameis Looks Like The Next Josh Freeman”

  1. Bucsfanman Says:

    You can’t say that it’s unfair in any way to make the comparison. JW has waaaaay more weapons than JFro ever had and nothing that Ledbetter said was untrue.

  2. Lamarcus Says:

    Outside of Winning. JW needs to be looking for new address. As the Bucs continue to lose (as history repeats itself), JW will continue be under that microscope. It’s a lose lose sitaution. I believe even if we had the top Qb Tom Brady will would of been still basement dwellers. It’s more than the Qb.

  3. DB55 Says:

    National pundits are just running with the same rhetoric that the TB media has put out there and is now pounding away at.

    Jameis looked at the media pool, called you guys out by name and said that you’re family. You guys (present company excluded) repay him with disloyalty and disrespect.

  4. Tval Says:

    Sounds like a doc desperate for clicks. Wentz is out next year too. Hes the “success”??? Spare me

  5. Lord Cornelius Says:

    Incredibly dumb and lazy analysis.

    1. The majority of Freeman’s wins came in the 10 win season in which we beat no good teams or teams with winning records; with one of the easiest schedules in the league by far. We’ve had top 5 difficult schedules the last 2 years for comparison.

    Freeman has only beaten 4 teams with a winning record in his 4+ year career. Winston beat 3 winning teams last year alone; and the NFC South has been better the years Winston has been in it.

    2. The reasons for Freeman’s downfall were that he wasn’t a leader and didn’t have a love for the game and didn’t work hard at it. No one’s ever had those issues with Winston.

    Dumb & Lazy.

  6. Tval Says:

    No way brady lasts behind donovan smith at lt. The bucs had an avg rookie anchoring the line since day 1 with jameis.. Rams, dallas, and stl strengths are their olines.. Not rocket science, DOCTA.. 😂

  7. Chris Says:

    We’ve held other qbs that were here to the standard of wins and losses, and many of them had nowhere near the weapons he has. But Nole fans will defend him untill the end, college before pro team in this minor league town.

  8. AceofAerospace Says:

    I can’t disagree with anything he said.

  9. America's Groper Says:

    A better reason ti have a confidence poll for Ole Shameus

  10. Lamarcus Says:


    Why would u have a confidence poll in a 23 yr old Qb?

    What a sad state this franchise has become. Looks like it’s getting worse by the year.

  11. FFS Says:

    LOL..Ive been saying that for a loooooong time duh

  12. Smokingjoebucfan Says:

    Whotf is Ledbetter? JW will right this ship within a year or 2 then y’all can take turns with Ledbetter and suck on his W’s

  13. Negative Jeff Says:

    Winston’s only real trouble since college is the alleged Uber Driver run in. Get Winston healthy, get him a scheme he can believe in, and we’ll all be eating wins and licking fingers.

  14. unbelievable Says:

    Freeman had V Jax and Mike Williams when they were both balling out, plus Doug Martin putting up over 1200+ yards, and L. Blount crushing defenders before that. So he actually did have some decent weapons. I would argue the o-line was better too.

    Regardless, the comparison is fair at this point.

  15. Lord Cornelius Says:

    “We’ve held other qbs that were here to the standard of wins and losses”

    I haven’t. Holding QBs to W:L standards is stupid imo; unless you’re just looking at their record in winnable games and how they play in close games in the 4th quarter. WInston has been great in those situations and has a winning record.

    You can’t hang losses on QB’s when your defense is bottom 2-3 in the league and giving up 20-30 points before halftime. Any QB would be f*cked in that situation.

    I liked Freeman. Dude could have had a good career if he was an actual leader / had a love for the game like Winston. He actually had some clutch performances / game winning drives; but when freeman was playing bad towards the end of his career it was 10X as bad as what Winston is doing now.

    I never liked Glennon. Just didn’t pass the eye test. Couldn’t handle pressure. Couldn’t extend plays. Couldn’t play clutch or elevate the play of anyone around him. Game manager at best and would need a supremely elite team to even flirt with a winning season.

    All WInston needs to do is clean up a few things – primarily his protection of the ball when he’s being hit from the side or behind; along with his footwork and long ball. Fix those 2 things and stay healthy; with an actual OC; he should be posting top 10 QB #s.

    As NFLNUT has pointed out a million times; his numbers from his 7 healthy games this year extrapolate out to a really damn good season with improvement across the board. He’s 23. I’m still all aboard.

  16. unbelievable Says:

    moderating and…. moderating and… moderating…

  17. Baz Says:

    What a bunch of drivel.

    If you want to compare Jameis to Freeman, fine. But do it with facts dealing with both players.

    What the actual F*** does “licking a W” have to do with anything on the field? And Jameis didn’t “instigate” the fight between Evans and Lattimore. Evans defended his QB (who wasn’t even on the damn field at the time, if I remember correctly), Jameis didn’t get Evans involved.

    You want to say Jameis should produce more? Fine. You want to say he should take better care of the ball and improve his long-ball accuracy? You won’t get an argument from me. You want to bring utter nonsense into the discussion? Get outta here with that weak crap. I’m surprised he didn’t invoke the words “Publix” and “crab legs” just for old times’ sake.

  18. Nate Says:

    23 but you been starting after redshirt season and he’s that young in the nfl because he only played in college two years

    He needs to play better period ….or is he the only QB to play baseball heavy and be successful …..deion and bo don’t count

    Has the fastball baseball style limited his growth and will it always HMMMMM

    glazers are wondering that watch the russel wilsons , ryans , cams , come in and win

    and IDGAF about those stats cause even if they don’t have the jameis passing yards ….you know what they don’t do why there team wins???

    turn the ball over 56 times in 42 games or whatever the count is

  19. C eh N eh D eh Says:

    ditto, what the Atlanta guy said…dismantle this mess now, and maybe by the time Ryan and Newton retire the Bucs can contend…

  20. DBS Says:

    Garbage time stats make those numbers look real good this year.

  21. Jolly Bucs Fan Says:

    Lazy comparison. Nuff said

  22. BushidoEvans Says:

    ^agree Freeman had one of the best o-lines in the league for a few years too

  23. Gobucs Says:


    All you people on here lol.

    He’s a y’all of fame voter so I would bet he knows more than any of you and is a respected voice.

    But go ahead and say he’s dumb and stupid and doesn’t know anything and find a way to blame something else for his terrible play and decision making.

  24. Dewey Selmon Says:

    The thing I noticed is their lack of running the ball. Freeman lost a bunch of weight and stopped running and I”m not sure what’s up with Winston.

  25. GhostofSchiano Says:

    I may be wrong here but it seems the Bucs are always starting on their own 20 yard line or less, The “D” quickly establishes the line of scrimmage and we go one dimensional passing. I blame Licht and Koetter for poor O-line and D-line play. Plenty of available QUALITY free agents that could have been had for a price. Glazers not want to make an investment? Winston cannot / will not win games by himself.

  26. GhostofSchiano Says:

    BushidoEvans Says:

    December 13th, 2017 at 3:31 pm

    ^agree Freeman had one of the best o-lines in the league for a few years too

    AGREED. We had Penn, Zuttah and Larsen. All three went on to start for the Raiders, Ravens and Falcons. Who did we get to replace them? Just like with Mankins there was a serious drop off, this falls on you Jason Gump.

  27. Dooshlarue Says:

    Didn’t JW head butt a Dallas player also?

  28. Lamarcus Says:


    I listen to one of Joe podcast yesterday and they explained JW calling them family. It was said the Tampa media don’t consider themselves family. Nuff said

  29. Lamarcus Says:


    Hof voters…. Pheff. Belicheat said Jw is a franchise guy. So he don’t know more than the writer??? Gtfoh

  30. Lord Cornelius Says:

    I don’t care what a person’s credentials are – they can still say something dumb and misguided. They’re human like anyone else.

    lol @ anyone who says “garbage stats”

    The only game that could even qualify is the Vikings game. Other than that all his biggest passing performances were in close games. Two of those games were ones in which he put the team ahead at the end and we still lost..

    This is all readily available information on the internet; but if anyone even followed the team at all you’d think they would remember these games and not make such a dumb comment.

  31. SOEbuc Says:


  32. CHARGEDCBH Says:

    WHY is it, when you compare QB’s you have to compare all Black QB’s to other Black QB’s? FN Pathetic!!!!! If you compare Winston’s career in college and Freeman’s, there not even close.

  33. D-Rome Says:

    Josh Freeman career numbers aren’t really close to Jameis’s at all. Jameis can make throws that Josh Freeman could never make and Jameis is far more accurate.

  34. Smokingjoebucfan Says:

    It’s because he’s black, most of y’all wanted Mariota. I get it now. F y’all

  35. First Down Tampa Bay Says:

    Jameis is not Josh Freeman and it’s not even close. Stop making idiotic comparisons. Josh Freeman failed because of his lack of leadership, something no one can deny Jameis has plenty of.

  36. Dirks Great Granpappy Says:

    If I’m not mistaken Matty Ice had a cpl really really bad years after his flash in the pan success early. Now he’s an nfl mvp

    Jameis has been solid. Cut the turnovers down. he’s increased his completion percentage

    Also think the vertical offense needs to have more wrinkles. He can’t take a 7 step drop on almost every play. 3rd and 2 why do we need a 17 yard pass

  37. Gobucs Says:

    Lol Winston couldn’t hit a deep ball to save his life.

    He’s a pathetic decision maker and makes some of the dumbest plays you’ll ever see on a football field.

    You all can defend him all you want but if he doesn’t turn it around next season then he’s done as a buc. Guaranteed.

    And if he does I’ll start wearing my Winston jersey again.

  38. Gobucs Says:


    There it is.

    Throw the race card lmao.

    I knew it was coming.

    We’re all racists lol. I guess you don’t remember all the hate Glennon and McCown got. And rightfully so because they sucked.

    But Winston starts sucking and we criticize and yep it’s because he’s black

    You’re an idiot.

  39. Alanbucsfan Says:

    Mistakes are hurting Jameis…
    Losses to Rams and Cowboys last year would have been wins without criical mistakes. Losses to Packers and Lions this year- same thing
    Next year is his 4th year- He needs to play mentally like a veteran – if he executes with his talent- he will be a winner, if not .. stat hero like Tony Romo

  40. SB Says:

    “That Freeman-clone winning percentage is a punch in the gut and it makes the comparison fair.”
    Um…….NO! Who were Josh Freeman’s receivers?

  41. SOEbuc Says:

    DG Granpappy

    He has to throw a 17-yard pass on 3rd and 2 because Koetter will either call a single back set run that the entire opposing defense always knows is gonna happen or a screen five yards behind the line of scrimmage.

  42. Tony from Los Angeles Says:

    Keep at it, Joe. You’re the one choosing these articles. I’ve found a BUNCH written the past few days extolling Jameis as still having a very bright future – from more respected folks that this. You’re pushing the negativity and pushing it hard… your site, your choice obviously.
    Shaq 2.0 all over again in central florida.
    It’s just like all the people saying that Mike Evans was just another Mike Williams when he struggled in year 2. Lazy. Negative. A very bad combo.
    Man, you are ridiculous. You simply love to pretend Joe writes things that aren’t actually written. Jameis has lots of talent around him, lots of weapons, and lots of upside. He’s also an average starter by ANY NFL standard right now, and he’s got some baggage. Sorry, that’s just the reality. Joe always has shared national perspective on the Bucs. And Mr. Ledbetter is a significant name and a very straight-shooter.–Joe

  43. Warrenfb12 Says:

    Ya it’s not a good look for Jameis to be complaining about Dirk. That said, Jameis just passes the eye ball test better than Freeman IMO. But, I guess we will buckle up and see…

  44. Tom Edrington Says:

    Shocking that they haven’t heard in Atlanta that Jameis is “America’s Quarterback”……oh wait, it’s only the Joes who refer to him with that dubious moniker…..

  45. DB55 Says:


    With friends like this who needs enemies?

  46. DB55 Says:

    if he doesn’t turn it around next season then he’s done as a buc. Guaranteed.
    He’s working on it trust me. Don’t nobody want to waste their career here with these pathetic fans and loser culture. Go stroke GMC’s pixie stick that’s all ya good for anyway.

  47. mike10 Says:

    We’re all huge Bucs fans on this site, and I can’t recall a season where I’ve been as hurt as 2017..

    .. but can we all collectively laugh for a second at how horribly bad this year has gone. WTF! We go from being the sweetheart pick for just about every nat’l pundit, to completely rebuilding Jameis’ image, and praising Koetter as the Godfather – gifting him with a portrait ——> to winning 4 games, making those same pundits look like idiots, having Jameis have ANOTHER sex assault accusation, and Dirk’s departure becoming a foregone conclusion.

    hahaha… (tears)

  48. Clodhopper Says:

    If licking his fingers was so bad, why is everyone copying him? He wasn’t being weird. He was being a trend setter. Lions don’t care what sheep think

  49. Couch Fan Says:

    The only area the two are compareable is that they both start games off extremely slow and dont do a whole lot til late in the game. Freeman also had a crappy deep ball but was bailed out a lot by 2 terriric deep ball receivers in Williams and V-jax. Freeman also struggled even with short passes. Lets not mention how The Mental Midget completely quit on his team and tried throwing them under the bus with his sneaky leaking antics. No, Freewee is in a pathetic class all by himself.

  50. Lamarcus Says:

    I would Ledbettet explain Matty Rice decline…. He looks years away from the MVP year and making rookie ints. Ledbetter what’s ur take on YOUR Qb?

  51. DB55 Says:

    The area where Jameis needs to improve most is scrambling and running with the ball.

    Who remembers what Monken and Koetter called our best offensive play last year? Their best play was the scramble drill. Go figure.

    Jameis is in the same boat as Russell Wilson. He has no team around him so he has to account for 80% of the offense.

    Run Jameis Run cuz ain’t nobody got your back except Mike Evans bruh RUN!!!!

  52. Son of Kobe Faker Says:

    No doubt…there will be trade talks and offer from other teams this offseason

    Jameis to arizona for 2018 1st and 2nd round pick

    “My dad and I go wherever jaboo goes”

    Son of Kobe Faker

  53. mike10 Says:


    Ya, gonna have to whole-heartedly disagree w/ you on pretty much everything ^

    1. Jameis needs to improve most in the pocket by planting his feet better and getting the ball out faster. How can you not mention the words “deep” and “ball”?

    2. Jameis couldn’t be further from Russell Wilson or the Seahawks: He isn’t a running threat, has 2 receivers that are top 15 in the NFL (including one that’s top 5), and a TE that has tied for the league lead in TDs 2 years running.

    3. Jameis does not account for 80% of our offense. Half our wins came from the 3 games Fitzpatrick played. Heck, Fitz almost won the third and brought us back in Arizona.

    Come-on brah, call a spade a spade

  54. Mike Johnson Says:

    America’s QB Jameis as called only by certain Buc writers..needs better coaching. I mean guys..Stevie Wonder can see it!!

  55. Couch Fan Says:

    If we are counting almost, Jameis has plenty of games that he “almost” brought us back from….

  56. SOEbuc Says:

    Wouldn’t mind Gruden coming back to coach JW. He’s a good offensive and QB’s coach that says he’d love to coach Jameis. If so many chant “WE WANT GRUDEN!!” walking out after so many of our losses, what’s it gonna sound like on Ring of Honor MNF?

  57. Lord Cornelius Says:


    Exactly which is why I don’t understand the huge drop in roll out play action plays; especially in the red zone. Why stop using something that was working?

    RW at least has had elite defenses his whole career. This year is a down year for them; and they are still the 8th best scoring defense; allowing just 19.4 PPG. We allow 24 PPG on the year.

    There’s only 3 games this year we held teams to 19 points or less. The only one of those games we didn’t win was the Pats game – and everyone blames that game on Folk.

    If we only gave up 19 points in the other 10 games; our season record would be 9-4 right now based on the points we scored. Kind of insane to think about.

    It’s a team game.

    Oh and for whoever wants to say we give up more points because of Winston turnovers – RW has 11 interceptions and 9 fumbles this year.

  58. gotbbucs Says:

    He isn’t a franchise QB. The sample size is big enough right now to be able to tell that. He’s weird as hell and he can’t make all the nfl throws. He’s regressed horribly this year.
    They spent the offseason building around him and he sh!t the bed on them.

  59. JonBuc Says:

    Reason # 235 to dislike the Falcons…”beat” writer Ol’ Yellow Leadbetter. Having said that…he may be on to something with the comparison.

  60. SOEbuc Says:

    No one has any clue what Jameis would look like with a good O-Line and RB, not even myself or himself.

    So, I guess the most reasonable thing for everyone to do is SHUT THE HELL UP!!!

  61. Lakeland Says:

    It’s very, very interesting that Jameis Winston were a 21 year rookie Pro Bowl QB in 2015. And less than 2 years later after firing the Head Coach Lovie Smith. He now look like a 23 year old washed up Qb with no future in the NFL. According to some of these experts. Well let’s take a look at the difference between 2015 and 2017.

    Basically the same offensive coaching staff

    A new Head Coach

    A new defensive coaching staff

  62. DB55 Says:


    Sorry man I think you missed my point. I’m saying jw has no oline so he has to run. Can’t have deep ball accuracy when you have 1-2 def players in your face every throw, tipping passes at the line, pushing your guard into you as you release the pass.

    I’m saying last year their best play according to the coaches was scramble drill cuz again no blocking.

    Therefore Jameis needs to learn to scramble like Russell Wilson. Get it?

  63. Destinjohnny Says:

    No way
    He has sooooo much pride.
    Think he will settle in to the 12
    Best qb

  64. Buccaneer Bonzai Says:

    I am very surprised that a media guy who covers a division rival is saying bad things about our QB…

  65. Chris Says:

    Excuses, excuses, excuses. If this guy were anything but a Nole, you would want to run him out of town with the incredible brain dead plays he’s made, and it happened in college, specifically the Oregon playoff game, so don’t blame coaching, although they have sucked in playcalling .

  66. MadMax Says:

    Well, im willing to give him another year. Whether its under new coaching or whatever it takes. But just have a plan be and be ready to move on from him. I especially wouldnt sign him to a big contract anytime before i see a lot of improvement. So last year it was he needed weapons, this year its the O line? Sorry but sometimes I think its just him!

  67. nole4JabooANDdBucs Says:

    Give me a break everyone has an opinion you can realize that from the posters here. Who is this guy, Bill Bilichick or somebody? Jameis is going to be Jameis!

    Some of you need to stick with madden and fantasy playing.

    Short of injury Jameis will never be a Josh Freeman even if he have to leave this mentally soft town.

    If you can get it go to the link below and listen to how JW advises the kid on withstanding bulling, ridicule about his intelligence…etc

    Anyone who wants to know the true stats for JW vs MM can google them and find, the Titans are leading inspite of their QB (Marcus)

    Anyone interested can go to this link below or to instagram (it is in 3 parts) and ck JW’s msg to a kid about ignoring bulling and human cruelty:


  68. What in the buc Says:

    Would he take the same chances he takes now if our defense was reliable? That will be the tell tale sign if he needs to stay or go! He has way to many Brian Griese moments

  69. Gobucs Says:


    Yea and the only thing you’re stroking is your boyfriends pixie stick while you stroke your food stamp card that I contribute to

  70. BigMacAttack Says:

    Our offensive line has sucked and not protected well. Drew Brees would suck behind this O line. Defensive lines be has destroyed the defense. Might want to do something in the trenches Jason.

  71. Cobraboy Says:

    There are few harsher slams that calling a QB the next Josh Freeman.

    That’ll leave a mark…

  72. I Bleed Pewter and Red Says:

    I find it hilarious that fans accuse JOE of negative bias against Jameis Winston when 3 years ago JOE was carrying his water, and defended his off field baggage, and systematically dubbed him as “America’s QB” …LMAO

  73. I Bleed Pewter and Red Says:

    Comparing Jameis to Josh is unfair to Josh for the only and most important reason that Jameis has had the luxury of a way better supporting cast. If I had to make a comparison it would be closer to Byron Leftwich. Their throwing styles and body language is very similar, although Byron actually threw a more accurate deep ball.

  74. BrianBucs Says:

    I’m neither a Winston hater or fanboy, but goodness please dont compare him to Josh Freeman . Thats just horrible

  75. SOEbuc Says:


    “So last year it was he needed weapons, this year its the O line? Sorry but sometimes I think its just him”

    He needs an Oline to protect him in the pocket to use those weapons.

  76. DB55 Says:


    Well then stfu, go to work and make me some money beach.

  77. Gobucs Says:


    Yea something you would know nothing about lol.


  78. SB Says:

    Cobraboy wins the post of the evening!
    BrianBucs summed it up perfectly in the very next comment. Lol.
    I am one of the Only Gators on this site that supported the JW drafting. I even had my best friend who is a Seminole grad tell me he didn’t think JW3 was worth all the Hype and I debated with him a great deal. This doesn’t feel very good 2 1/2 years later.

  79. SB Says:

    Disclaimer: I have in NO WAY given up on JW3. It is just that he was supposed to be SOOOO Fn special! Wentz, Goff, Prescott, Watson, Garappalo look Much better in less Starts…….Damning.

  80. Joseph Mamma Says:

    No way are they similar. Freeman had a much better arm.

  81. feelthepewterpower Says:

    Uh, when did Winston instigate the fight? Wasn’t Lattimore over on our sidelines running his mouth?

  82. feelthepewterpower Says:

    Winston has also been hurt this season, but let’s disregard that fact.

  83. NFLNut Says:


    BELOW is some ACTUAL RESEARCH … like I said, talking heads in the media are for the most part either lazy, or just biased and/or idiotic.

    Through first 42 career starts:

    Jameis: 10,607 yards, 64 TDs, 41 INTs and a 86.2 rating

    Bucs w/l record over the 4 years BEFORE he was drafted: 16-48 (.250) … first 42 starts: 17-25 (.405) which means Jameis INCREASED the team’s win percentage by 62% since being drafted!

    Freeman: 9,270 yards, 54 TDs, 48 INTs and a 79.2 rating

    Bucs w/l record over the 4 years BEFORE he was drafted: 33-31 (.516) … first 42 starts: 18-24 (.429) which means Freeman DECREASED the team’s win percentage by 17% after being drafted!

    So … through their first 42 games Jameis has thrown for 14% more yards, 19% more TDs, 15% less interceptions, has a 9% higher passer rating and increased his team’s win percentage by 62% over the previous 4 seasons while Freeman decreased his team’s win percentage by 17% when compared to the previous four seasons before being drafted.

    So … Jameis is “another Freeman” in the same way that Derek Carr is another Jamarcus Russell and Deshaun Watson is another David Carr and Matt Stafford is another Joey Harrington, etc.



  84. Big Stinky Says:

    Reminds me more of Trent Dilfer but whatever

  85. T Syce Says:

    Joe get your head outta the sand aabout Winston. You give him too much praise. Yeah he has upside. Has shown good things.He’s also shown alota bad also.He has underachieved and is a TURNOVER MACHINE! AND he’s an idiot outside the game.He’s regressed Face it.. I’m starting to doubt this dude. I love the squad and I haven’t given up on him but the clock is ticking. Be a realist

  86. Dave Says:


    JW has HOF potential.
    He has drive.
    He has work ethic.
    He has a love for the game.

    Freeman had none of that.

    JW is not weird, he’s competitive as hell and made some questionable decisions as a youngster. He’s still a youngster and has grown up tremendously.

    This guy is clueless

  87. NFLNut Says:


    I just blasted the author of that article on his own blog … now his readers can actually be educated.


  88. NFLNut Says:

    The author should worry about his own QB (Matt Ryan), who at Jameis’ current age had 3,440 career passing yards and 16 career TD passes … by the end of this year Jameis will probably have close to 8,000 more passing yards and 50+ more TD passes.

    By the way, despite Jameis playing hurt this year he has a higher TD % and a lower INT % than Matt Ryan!

  89. Big Stinky Says:

    Winston’s numbers are SCARY! 53 turnovers in 42 games; ONLY 4 opening drive TD’s; ONLY 8 or 9 first quarter passing TD’s; 7 game winning drives. Those are the REAL stats if you ask me!

  90. Matts17 Says:

    Winston is most similar to Testaverde. He’s gone in 2 years.

  91. NFLNut Says:

    ^ Two more to add to the “loon” category

  92. Getaclue Says:

    His qb rating has increased every year included this season

  93. NFLNut Says:



    TonyfromLosAngeles called you out … and was right.

    Your comeback at Tony that “Jameis is an average starter by any standard” seems to show you are also biased against the young man as such a statement simply is not true! Sir or Ma’am, “average” means middle of the pack. Jameis is NOT better than Aaron Rodgers, Matthew Stafford, Drew Brees, Matt Ryan, Cam Newton, Russell Wilson, Jared Goff or Carson Wentz. That’s 8 of the 16 NFC quarterbacks. So Jameis is average by NFC standards. And there’s plenty of good QBs in the AFC. He’s average right now. That’s not running Jameis out of town. That’s just reality.
    Right now, Jameis is top 10 in yards per attempt and if you take only his 7 healthy games (2,137 yards in 7 games for an average of 305.3 yards per game) he is #1 in the entire NFL in passing yards per game … #1!
    And, as I said in another post … even including all his hurt games and half games and the like, Jameis still has a higher TD % and lower INT % this season than the reigning MVP Matt Ryan, a player the media still considers a top-flight QB and certainly not just “average”.
    I don’t think YOU have turned on Jameis and are now trying to run the young man out of Tampa … I honestly think you’re just being lazy with your research and relying on played out media narratives and parroting what other talking heads are saying … and that’s a shame.

  94. TouchDownTampaBay Says:

    So Alan blames Jameis for losing the Packers and Lions games. Hey moron, he managed two great drives late in the 4th quarter to take the lead in one and tie in the other. The defense then decided they no longer wanted to tackle and gave the game away. Maybe you should reference the Bills game too where he gave the team the lead late and the defense pissed it away as well. But yeah, let’s blame Jameis for these losses. Jameis has some issues he needs to clean up but any real fan watching these games knows that the huge problem for this team is the sh1t show defense! If youre gonna criticize JW you need to at least be accurate with your claims and you just proved youre clueless by using the Packers and Lions games as examples.

  95. TouchDownTampaBay Says:

    NFLNut – That was a well researched and informed post. JW has turned the ball over too much this year but you cant argue the stats you referenced. We have a very dumb fan base and many guys that wanted Mariota and will never love JW. I think youre right though. Either Joe doesn’t really know how well JW has actually performed or he just knows negative JW posts will get a lot of clicks.
    Again, Joe is always going to share meaningful national perspective on the Bucs as long as it’s interest. This fit that mark. Joe, since Day 1 here, writes about what Joe finds interesting. Thankfully, tens of thousands also find it interesting every day.–Joe

  96. NFLNut Says:

    ^ I agree 100%

  97. DalvinCookRules Says:

    The only common denominator between Freeman and Winston is crappy coaching. The play-calling is bad, the effort all across the offense is bad, the talent across the OL is bad.

    Tell me what Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers would be doing differently in this offense? With either of those guys, this team still wouldn’t be better than 6-7 right now–unless they are going to be playing defense too.

  98. NFLNut Says:


    If you honestly think Matt Ryan, Jared Goff and Cam Newton are better than Jameis, I don’t know what to say other than … I disagree … strongly.

    Cam Newton is a physical freak but he’s a far inferior QB than Jameis … the guy just is not a good passer at all.

    Jared Goff was horrible last year and is playing good this year but you flip his situation with Jameis and I have no doubt things would look entirely differently … Goff is inferior to Winston, period.

    And Matt Ryan … I stated FACTS, namely that Jameis, even playing some of the year with an injured THROWING shoulder and playing the entire year with no running game has a higher TD % and a lower INT % than Ryan … and your retort is to simply claim Ryan is “better” … um, okay … not.

    The simple fact is that you stated Jameis is an average QB by any standard and I proved that was an incorrect and untrue statement as leading the entire NFL in passing yards per game when healthy is anything but “average” and being top 10 in yards per attempt is also anything but average … just man up and admit you were wrong.

    Now, as to your subjective opinions of what QBs are “better” than Jameis .. I’ll give you Rodgers, Brees, Wentz, Wilson and Stafford in the NFC but that’s it … and I’ll give you Brady, Roethlisberger and maybe Rivers in the AFC … but that’s just 8 “better” QBs than Jameis in the entire NFL and I don’t know that Big Ben or Rivers are actually “better” either.

    Anyways, you apparently subjectively think Jameis is a top 1

  99. NFLNut Says:

    … further to the above ….

    You apparently think Jameis is a top 15-17 QB and I subjectively think he’s easily a top 10 QB … but our opinions don’t matter.

    What matters is that by two important standards Jameis is elite and not “average” and you falsely claimed that by any standard Jameis is merely average … you were wrong. Admit it.

  100. BrianBucs Says:

    NFL Nut
    Since you are revealing yourself to be nothing more than a Jameis Winston fanboy and not a true Bucs fan, I’ll leave you with this – The Bucs still have the 4th best QB in the NFC South

  101. NFLNut Says:

    ^ BrianBucs … I post FACTS … you don’t like facts … that’s your problem not mine.

  102. Bucsfan951 Says:

    Saying winston might be better than Big Ben and rivers… I’m laughing over here! I mean seriously, I really just laughed. Then saying he’s for sure better than cam and Ryan, that’s just icing on top of the cake! Thanks for the laugh

  103. NFLNut Says:


    ^ Jameis has a passer rating just 1.8 points below Rivers last year and he has one just 1.4 below Roethlisberger this year while playing with no running game at all … I’d take Ben and Philip over Jameis to win one game as they are 10+ year veterans rather than a 23 year old without any playoff experience, but no, I am not sure either is necessarily “better” than Jameis … in Jameis’ healthy games this year he has averaged more passing yards per game then both Rivers and Roethlisberger and has a far better TD-to-INT ratio than Big Ben does.

    As for Matt Ryan … again, I already posted the FACTS … Jameis, despite playing multiple games with an injured throwing shoulder and playing the entire year without a running game has a higher TD % and a lower INT % than Matt Ryan … that’s a fact.

    As for Cam Newton … get out of here. Jameis blows Cam away as a passer … it’s not even remotely close.

    Cam: 81.9 rating, 60% comp %, 4.2 TD %, 3.0 INT %, 6.8 yds per attempt

    Jameis: 89.7 rating, 62.6 comp %, 4.3 TD %, 2.4 INT %, 7.5 yds per attempt

    Jameis just obliterates Cam as a passer … I mean, if anyone thinks Cam Newton is as good as Jameis they need to have their head examined!

    Honestly, that you bring up Ryan and Newton shows me that you don’t really know what you’re talking about, don’t do any real research and simply watch tv and let the media think for you as you’re focused on “names” and the last two MVP’s and don’t even realize Jameis has outplayed both of them, and completely obliterated Cam this year …


  104. Mord Says:

    Jameis *can* grow out of his leadership ‘schtick’ into something more real.

    Jameis *may* have the ability to become what we all hope he will

    But .. doubt is reasonable.

    His most shining moments are in ‘playground football’ mode; improvising beyond the designed play-call, frustrating the defense. But.. (and this, I think, is important) he’s no better than he was on day 1 (and maybe worse) in executing designed plays quickly and efficiently. Brady, Brees, Ryan, et al, are headed to Canton because they can read, decide and execute the best of their called plays, hitting their receivers in stride before the defense has a chance to shut it down.

    Jameis has his moments, but it feels too common to see him give up on a play and begin improvising. I think *he* believes it’s his greatest strength, and is eager to round-down from play execution to the comfort of improvising. Hell, why else does he persist in trying to throw the football while being sacked?

    I dunno.. but I’ve been hoping to see a QB this gifted, with three years in this offense beginning to execute quickly more often.

    Will he ever get there?

    Is this a limit of his ability or a shortcoming of the coaching?

  105. Mord Says:

    I should add, I’m hopeful .. and think a running game would make a big difference

  106. Bucsfanman Says:

    @NFLNut- Wow! You’re pretty passionate. Through all your research though, I think you missed the mark. Statistically, yea Jameis is better than Freeman but I think that’s half the story. What I thought Ledbetter was alluding to behind the stats was the mental aspect.
    Jameis does a lot of great things, no question. However, there’s no denying that he does a lot of stupid things as well. Objectively, and I’m sure Jameis would admit this as well, he has a lot of work to do to become an elite QB.
    Sadly, he’s got off the field work to do as well.
    Now, the Bucs have invested in providing him the tools needed to be successful and so far, his game has not been elevated as anticipated. Whatever the issue is, Jameis is not a good QB right now, regardless of what his stats say.
    With the right coaching, and with Jameis maturing I think he can elevate his game.
    Until then, I agree with Joe. He’s just average.

  107. Bucsfan951 Says:

    Honestly, that you bring up Ryan and Newton shows me that you don’t really know what you’re talking about, don’t do any real research and simply watch tv and let the media think for you as you’re focused on “names” and the last two MVP’s and don’t even realize Jameis has outplayed both of them, and completely obliterated Cam this year …

    Please stop. I really can’t stop laughing now. How many points do the Bucs average in scoring the first half?… 8 points? How many points do they average in the fourth quarter? Sounds as if the Bucs get blown out for 3 quarters and the opponents defense sits back the the fourth and plays prevent. I’d love to see Winston’s quarter by quarter break down in performance. Do you have those in your fancy notes you have there?

  108. TouchDownTampaBay Says:

    Lol bucsfanman, just ignore the facts. If the defense had been able to stop anyone the Bucs would be 7-6 and I bet everyone would be saying how he brought the Bucs back on 3 separate occasions and there wouldn’t be all this hate for him. Oh well, just keep blaming JW for everything and ignore all of the good things he has done over the past 3 years as a young QB.

  109. doolnutts Says:

    One thing I don’t see being mentioned enough is if there is a whole house cleaning keep in mind this puts a lot of pressure directly on Winston. The new regime has no ties to this number one over all draft pick and thus will not give him as much slack. It is just the way it goes and anyone else thinking otherwise inst paying attention. Winston IS Koetters guy PERIOD and that may not be a bad thing as far as development.

  110. Bucsfanman Says:

    TDTB- Apparently you didn’t read my entire post, but that’s OK. You cannot put ALL our problems on just the defense or special teams if you’ve been watching the games. A blind man can see that our defense stinks! Don’t just go for the low-hanging fruit TDTB!
    Jameis needs work. If you don’t think so then you have been blinded by your fandom.
    It’s funny how it’s “hate” to criticize Jameis. Maybe try to re-read objectively this time….LOL!

  111. Bucsfanman Says:

    You know, I was just going to let it ride but, lets look at a few “facts”:

    Detroit: QB-2 INTs, 1 Fumble lost

    I was unaware that the defense was on the field when the QB made these plays.

    G.B.: QB-62 yard fumble return for TD

    GMC really needed to step up his game on that play!!!

    No, you’re right. It’s ALL the defense’s fault! SMH!