Talk Of Jameis “Saving” Koetter; And The Silly Notion Of Sitting A Healthy Jameis

November 14th, 2017

The NFL world is going absolutely wild about rumors of Jon Gruden replacing Dirk Koetter in seven short weeks, and many are even buying into the nonsense that the Bucs would sit America’s Quarterback, Jameis Winston, if he’s healthy down the stretch.

It started last month with local media clowns speculating that Jameis was benched in Arizona and wasn’t really injured.

And it’s grown wilder by the week.

The Tampa Bay Times amped up fresh and bizarre Jameis chatter by mis-spinning general manager Jason Licht’s talk on the Buccaneers Radio Network on Sunday. Joe heard the interview and Licht was just saying what has been said all along — and what makes sense: When Jameis is deemed healed and healthy, he will play. It’s that simple, and it’s always been that simple.

The idea of sitting Jameis when he’s healthy is preposterous, unless it’s in, say, just the last game of the season. Maybe, if that’s the first game Jameis is available and healthy.

This is freakin’ professional football. C’mon. You don’t shut down your healthy, 23-year-old franchise QB.

Team Glazer and the organization would be massive frauds to do that to Jameis after marketing him all offseason and during the season.

“Dear fans, Jameis is our guy. Bring your kid to see him play. Buy a jersey. Watch him on Hard Knocks. But, oh, sorry, we’re not going to play him when he’s healthy. We’d like to try for a better draft pick, so we can take an edge rusher we wouldn’t need if we didn’t let Michael Bennett walk for no good reason.”

Joe doesn’t think for a second that Team Glazer would demand Jameis sit when he can play.

And on that note, given the extreme competitor Jameis is, if the Bucs pulled that kind of stunt, it might just make Jameis think about playing for a new NFL team when his contract ends. Jameis is just the kind of competitor who would resent getting shut down, not to mention go insane being forced to sit despite every doctor telling him he’s ready to play.

Just top the Jameis shut-down talk. If he is healthy, he should play.

Mike Florio, the NBC Sports guru and founder of, says a Jameis return might be the saving tonic for Koetter’s future. He’s not wrong. If Jameis comes back healthy and plays strong games under Koetter, Team Glazer would be nuts to pull the plug on that duo in January.

Florio’s new video is below.

103 Responses to “Talk Of Jameis “Saving” Koetter; And The Silly Notion Of Sitting A Healthy Jameis”

  1. Zwak Says:

    Put in Griffin for the rest of the year! We have nothing to gain and draft picks to lose..

    “Picks” You do realize that the only true benefit of losing is in the first round draft order. Do the math. –Joe

  2. Blake_Bucsfan Says:

    Joe, If I have learned anything in my years of being a Bucs fan. Is that Fans in this area have very short memories.

    So do you really think anyone will care if we have another losing season, but in return are rewarded with a real deal Pass rusher? Or the next Adrian Peterson? If the guys we get after a bad year help spring board us into championship contention, no one will care about this year, the hype will be back, and fans will start going to games to support a winning team.

    No, Joe doesn’t think anyone will care ultimately about the won-loss record, but they will care if the organization quits. You can still build a winner with the No. 10 pick instead of No. 4. Look at the draft history. It’s right there for you. There is no guarantee with the picks, but there is a guarantee that you’re a weaksauce organization when you start resting players for multiple games when they’re fully healthy. And you know what, Joe believes in Jameis’ football IQ. If he’s healthy, he’ll benefit greatly from another four games of experience, for example. That goes to winning long term, as well.–Joe

  3. Phil Says:

    No playoffs = no Koetter.

  4. Lamarcus Says:

    Jw was a winner before he came. Bucs are career losin franchise. Yea u say jw is the problem?
    I asked a professional bookie here in Vegas about everything jw. He said his guys is a akin to peyton manning. Similar starts to their careers. The eating Ws part was jw losing his voice to careers loser (sorta speak) and tampa bay doesn’t have veteran leadership. He also said 8 wins is over and under and jw accounts about 4 to 5 of those games. Without jw we are 3 to 4 win team 🙁 🙁 🙁 🙁

  5. 813bucboi Says:

    Phil Says:
    November 14th, 2017 at 2:42 pm
    No playoffs = no Koetter.


    GO BUCS!!!!

  6. Zwak Says:

    I’ve done the math Joe, please tell me what we are playing for??

  7. Dr. Lob Says:

    Play Winston but draft a QB in the mid rounds just in case Winston does not improve.

  8. buddah Says:

    Relax Koetter will be back, though several of his assistants may not be back. He made a great call on the third down pitch play and the touchdown pass. The Buccaneers were overhyped and it didn’t help to lose Kwon the first four weeks and both teams that had a bye the first week were seriously disadvantaged. Buccaneers will win 6 or 7 games and Jamies will be back at least the last four games. Gruden would be a disaster. Does nobody remember how badly he flopped after the Super Bowl, when the team was playing largely with Dungy’s personnel. He’s a quick fix for the short term but has no staying power. Players hated him near the end. When was the last time a team hired back a coach that they had fired? Exactly.

  9. derrickbrooksforGM Says:

    813bucboi Says:
    November 14th, 2017 at 2:59 pm
    Phil Says:
    November 14th, 2017 at 2:42 pm
    No playoffs = no Koetter.


    GO BUCS!!!!

    ^^^BUT you guys are ok with Licht?!^^^ Yikes!

  10. Mr. Ed Says:

    Slight correction to your Glazer memo, Joes.

    “Dear fans, Jameis is our guy. Bring your kid to see him play. Buy a jersey. Watch him on Hard Knocks. But, oh, sorry, we’re not going to play him when he’s healthy. We’d like to try for a better draft pick, so we can take an edge rusher we wouldn’t need if Mark Dominik didn’t let Michael Bennett walk for no good reason.”

  11. Poor Glennon Says:

    We want him healthy too. Don’t need that shoulder to be an excuse. 20 something more games with Josh Freeman 2.0. Good game, bad game, bad game, great game….repeat. Doesn’t win in this league!

  12. Lamarcus Says:

    No on gruden. His 4 game losing streak that sent him packing was a disaster. Bucs were 9-3 looking like contenders. December 8, 2008 was the day this franchise went to hell and never snapped out it. And u want him back? F no

  13. StPeteBucsFan Says:

    I’m with Mike Florio. We’re making waaaay to much of specific draft positions.

    Florio said this prior to the 2016 draft about the first round.

    “Next Thursday, 31 players will be drafted by the NFL teams that have first-round draft picks. We’ll hear a lot about all of the great things the 31 players picked did in college, and a lot about all the great things they’ll do in the NFL.

    And then, starting in September, roughly half of them will never do anything noteworthy in the NFL.”

    50-50 it’s not that freaking easy. So I say let’s begin to pile up some selections.

  14. Blake_Bucsfan Says:


    You know a sure fire way to stock pile draft picks?

    Trading away top 3 picks to teams that need a QB.

  15. StPeteBucsFan Says:


    You read my mind or I read yours. I think #3’s reaction to being told to sit when he could play would be really…really UGLY!!! #3 is NOT going to take a seat if he’s healthy!!! He would go nucking futs!!!

  16. bucs_365 Says:

    Zwak Says:
    November 14th, 2017 at 3:05 pm

    I’ve done the math Joe, please tell me what we are playing for??

    Dignity, self-respect, developing a winning locker room to build upon next season? I’d say those are significant things to play for. Guys who don’t want to play for those reasons don’t need to be back.

  17. 911bucs Says:

    Please show your work.

  18. al121976 Says:

    Lamarcus, the team quit because kiffin quit and there were a few unfortunate injuries.

  19. Tbbucs3 Says:

    I’m so tired of this loser mentality that so many Bucs fans have. If we get off to a bad start to the season suddenly fans want the team to purposely tank just for a couple spots up in the draft. That no way to change the Bucs losing culture.

  20. Tampa Bay Tailgater Says:

    “Gold Jacket, Green Jacket, Who gives a sheet.”

    Michael Clayton, Davin Joseph, Gaines Adams, Aquib Talib, Josh Freeman, , Adrian Clayborn, Mark Barron.

    Those are the last 10+ years of 1st Round Draft Picks who went on to play in and win superbowls with other teams.

    Culture eats talent for breakfast.

    Fix the culture/cancer of this organization before we speculate boring draft order conversation.

  21. AlteredEgo Says:

    Indeed…we need to see Jameis finish the season in as many games he is able to play in….in order to know what to do in the draft…

  22. Lord Cornelius Says:

    If this team shows they want to win with Koetter; and we keep him; then I am hoping he hires a full time OC / play caller; and gets a new QB coach. Mike Smith would likely return as no one would hire him as a HC right now. Beyond that it’s about getting rid of anyone that doesn’t want to give 100% to this team; and rebuilding the trenches and primarily the D-line; hopefully with a bunch of a4shole’s that are all about being that dominant front 7.

    Light is not bad at identifying talent; but no one in the last X years has ever figured out an actual identify for the team to build around.

  23. Defense Rules Says:

    Joe, we’ve hit a new low when you start paying attention to the Tampa Bay Rag’s conspiracy theories. Personally can only think of 1 reason Jameis might not get back in this year: If Jameis isn’t ready until the last couple of games and Fitz plays lights out & the Bucs go on a winning streak with him at the helm that brings in the possibility of us making the playoffs. I know, ain’t gonna happen. But what if? Golly it’s fun to ‘stir the pot’, isn’t it.

  24. DB55 Says:

    might just make Jameis think about playing for a new NFL team when his contract ends.
    Too late!

  25. LakeLand Says:

    The things that bother me about Jon Gruden

    The year after the Super Bowl (2003 season

    Monday Night Football (10-6-2003)

    Blows 21 point 4th quarter lead against Colts

    Loses 4 of the next 6

    Swept by Carolina Panthers

    7-9 season

    The most talented 7-9 team ever

  26. DB55 Says:

    Fitz plays lights out
    Bruh, you made me spit out my coffee. Wtf?!?! ROTFLMAO

  27. pelbuc Says:

    JBF, JW is turning out to be quite the”coach killer”. You’re right, this is professional football so why does JW need a babysitter (Mr Brooks) in year 3? Why hasn’t he matured (headbutts, sideline scuffles and bonehead interceptions)? Why can’t he throw with accuracy? It’s clear Bucs hitched their wagon to the wrong horse. Give me a quiet, lead by example QB like Mariota anyday over Freeman 2.0. Love that comparison Poor Glennon!

  28. Defense Rules Says:

    @Lord C … “no one in the last X years has ever figured out an actual identify for the team to build around.” Depends how long X is Lord C. Bucs identity since Day 1 has been D-E-F-E-N-S-E. Took us 25 years to perfect it, but it got us a Super Bowl, then the Glazers abandoned it right after that & Chucky’s offenses never filled the void. Raheem, Schiano & Lovie all tried to re-focus on D-E-F-E-N-S-E once again, but we never regained the dominance we had with Dungy & Monte Kiffin working the defense. Now all of a sudden (OK, past 3 years) we’ve had visions of becoming an offensive juggernaut. Loaded up with weapons, but apparently forgot that ‘trench warfare’ still exists & you’ve got to win that battle before those fancy weapons can be effective. Right now it looks like we’re caught in a ‘no man’s land’ … and will be for several years IMO.

  29. Defense Rules Says:

    Hey DB55, I said ‘IF’.

  30. DB55 Says:


  31. shooter Says:

    Trade Evans for a 2 & 4 round pick..

  32. al121976 Says:

    shooter has had too many shots

  33. Lord Cornelius Says:

    @ Defense Rules

    Agree man.

    What is insane about all of that; is that we’ve had like the worst defenses in the NFL under Raheem / Schiano / Lovie. All were bottom 5 pretty much in points given up other than a decent stretch here or there in-season.

    You’d think with that being a focus for like 6 years something would have changed; but same old same old.

    That’s why I’m almost feeling like f*ck it move McCoy just for the sake of change lol. He’s the only consistent thing across all those years of bad defenses. It’s probably not loi

    I thought our identity this year would have been a well rounded team that had a opportunistic defense and an offense that could easily move the ball and score. A top 15 defense and a top 5-10 offense. In the preseason we were driving the ball on everyone we played; although we were bad in the red zone. Still – we moved the ball at ease against the Jags for example.

    Then the Cardinals game happened.

    I honestly am not going to make a big deal of the Vikings. That was an insane amount of injuries in 1 week to deal with and no time to prepare defensively. If Winston hits Djax on that early interception then it’s a closer game and who knows.

    The Pats – I’ll blame on folk. But the Cardinals game – like wtf was that? 10 days to prepare – a super important game coming off a tough loss due to a kicker… That O-line is trash and they looked like HOFers against us blocking for Peterson and protecting Palmer. Absolutely no push.

    I feel that’s really where this season turned upside down. Same old sh1t defense with gaping holes in coverage everywhere and no push at all on the line. Jameis gets hurt when his #s were all trending up before that game and have been down since (other than his heroic Bills performance).

    Can we just never schedule Arizona again?

  34. DB55 Says:

    shooter Says:
    November 14th, 2017 at 4:26 pm
    Trade Evans for a 2 & 4 round pick..
    When I talk about the meth capitol of the world, this is what I’m talking about.

    When I say these people or you people this is who I’m talking to.

    $5 bucks says shooter is a “real fan”. Any takers? Smmfh dmf fr

  35. Lord Cornelius Says:

    meant to say “it’s probably not logical but I don’t care because I’m running out of ideas”

  36. Steven007 Says:

    @shooter, unless you’re high you must mean Justin Evans. And there’s no way he gets those picks obviously. Pretty sure you mean Mike in which case, I guess you’re actually high.

  37. Tackleblockwin Says:

    The Bucs need to defeat their loser mentality before they worry about draft picks.

  38. ScottyinFatAntonio Says:

    Why is sitting Jameis so silly? Sounds like he has reverted back to his silly college ways again and needs to be knocked down a few pegs.

  39. Freder Says:

    “C’mon. You don’t shut down your healthy, 23-year-old franchise QB.”
    You do if he’s erratic. And this kid is erratic. You are all in a collective denial. Everyone has seen his throws. Good accuracy? Plays great under pressure? Koetter yanked him because he just wasn’t making anything happen. He yanked him to save his career. James had pretty much floundered from the beginning of the season. He yanked his ass to save him from embarrassing himself and the team and the franchise. Little did he know that James was going to act out some grade school stunt in the near future. I thought that was a bold move by Koetter, perhaps the boldest for the Bucs this season. Let Jameis sit it out for a while and have some constructive fireside chats with Dad.

  40. Tampabaybucfan Says:

    OK…..TBBF doesn’t get angry easily, but some of you “fans” who continually call for the Bucs to lose games to improve their draft pick….ponder this.

    NE almost always get a pick around 32 and they are perennial winners.

    Cleveland gets picks near the top every year and trades for multiple picks and they are big-time losers.

    What ever the hell happened to playing the game to win?

    How sorry it must be to root for a team to lose….that makes you losers!!!

  41. Tampabaybucfan Says:

    Speaking for Pablo

    “It is rare for Pablo to respond to a post but Pablo agrees with TBBF”

  42. Lord Cornelius Says:

    The only time to root for tanking is for a franchise QB.

    We have a 23 year old QB whose thrown for 4000 yards each of his first 2 years; and had his #s improving across the board (accuracy % up, YPA up, int ratio down, etc); pacing for easily the best and most efficient QB season by far in Bucs history; before his shoulder injury.

    I think we’re OK at QB. Call me crazy!

  43. Blake_Bucsfan Says:

    @Lord C

    I personally don’t see the distinction.

    Why not tank for a franchise running back that would lift a great deal of pressure and responsibility off of Jameis’ shoulder’s?

    And @Joe, Starting out the season 2-6 when every player, every coach, every media outlet, and almost every fan is expecting playoffs, well that’s already pretty weak sauce right there.

    I understand that the G’s have an obligation to fans to put a good product on display, well, it’s a little late for at this point. When the product thus far has been pretty brutal.

    It’s fine to come away with those mid level picks when you are in playoff contention all season long, and then fall shot towards the end like last year. But when the season is already essentially over from a post season perspective, Then the only smart thing to do is to ensure the best possible draft position for next year’s draft.

    Speaking of the 2018 NFL draft, it aint exactly a loaded one, there aren’t very many plug and play game changer’s. But there are a few to be had at the top of the first. Every draft is loaded, you just have to pick the right guys. –Joe

    The only thing going 5-11, or 6-10, or 7-9 does is placate casual fans who don’t have any foresight. As for saving Koetter, it’s already too late.

  44. webster Says:

    Can someone please tell me when josh freeman, davin joseph, mark barron and gaines adams played in or won a superbowl after leaving the bucs?

  45. Blake_Bucsfan Says:

    Koetter’s fate was sealed the moment he spoke the words, “This is the most talented roster we’ve had since I’ve been here, by far.” and then proceeded to win 2 out of 8 games to start the season.

  46. BucTrooper Says:

    Lost in this story is the shocker that the Times actually misrepresented someone’s words…

  47. Blake_Bucsfan Says:


    They didn’t. That guy is just an idiot.

  48. Defense Rules Says:

    Lord C … “I thought our identity this year would have been a well rounded team that had a opportunistic defense and an offense that could easily move the ball and score. A top 15 defense and a top 5-10 offense.” That’s EXACTLY what I thought. Something went wrong on the way to the forum.

  49. DoNUTS Says:

    IF JW does not play well next year, what will be your excuse then? While I agree with you that JW is not the only problem, he is a big part of the problem. His decision making is awful and I wonder if he can read an NFL DEF properly.

    PS – comparing him to Manning is a joke and I hope you are not serious or your bookie. Manning had 33 TDs in year 3 for comparison. I dont believe ANY real respectable bookie would make that comparison. If they did, I think he was telling you what you wanted to hear and hoping you would be silly enough to bet on the Bucs.

    Does this look Manning like to you?

  50. Blake_Bucsfan Says:

    And oh yeah Joe, this just came to mind.

    Like you say, you can get a winner with a # 10 over a #4 pick.

    But other times, It can be the difference between Vernon Hargreaves, and Jalen Ramsey.

    Food for thought.

  51. DB55 Says:


    Fitz has 13 years exp he can read defenses yet he had a 49% completion percentage. Which is lower than Jameis has done this year.

    The problem is simple Jameis and every other qb is running scared behind that oline.

    JW hurt, Griffin went on IR and the old man can’t hit a barn.

  52. DB55 Says:

    We ran for 90 yards on 32 carries or 2.8 ypc

  53. passthebuc Says:

    It’s not who you have on your roster. It’s what you need.
    Don’t fall in love with stocks or players.
    Kotter should send the next opponent the playbook. Maybe that will confuse them into believing he will not be so predictable.
    Watch the good teams, they concentrate on playing to the opponents weakness.
    We, on the other hand, run the same offense regardless of the opponent. When you listen to an announcer during an NE game, you never hear why did Brady, Belichick do that. Its because they do not make many errors in execution.
    We do not need 10 high-end receivers when Jameis cannot get them the ball. We do however nee D-lineman and CB’s. I agree, trade Evans and pick up a no.1 & 3.

  54. DB55 Says:

    Watch the good teams, they concentrate on playing to the opponents weakness.
    True story. The other thing you’ll see is that no one is making easy catches well very very few. It seems like every highlight is filled with acrobatic OBJ style catches.

    Did you know that if take Djax out of the equation then jw accuracy skyrockets from 62% to like 70+.

    Did you also know that Djax is yet to dive for a pass or even attempt to keep his feet inbounds? Ijs

  55. Lord Cornelius Says:

    @ Blake

    I just don’t really believe in the draft as that much of an exact science beyond the QB position. Typically you need a top round 1 QB pick to land a franchise QB historically. The percentages just bear that out. But I don’t think it’s as necessary at other positions.

    Every year we see supposed studs at RB/DE/OT /etc bust in the top 5-10. Think Fisher/Joekal the year they were the stud OTs that went in the top 5. Think Trent Richardson. Think of the athletic DEs that have busted. Hell the top 3 WRs from the 2017 draft – all top 10 picks – have been less productive than Chris Godwin pretty much and he’s our 4th WR who would probably have pretty solid stats if targetted heavily.

    I also in general don’t value Round 1 RBs that much even with recent trends.

    This team needs to build up the lines. The only reason I’d prefer a top pick is to trade down to get more picks. I’d rather do that all day than go RB.

    Beyond that I’m just sick of losing and thinking about the draft. I want this team to win to give the fans hope and to try to erase the losing culture. The last 3 coaches have all had terrible seasons at some point; and if we are going to move forward with Koetter; it’s better to do it going out competitive this year.

    Hell a winning 2nd half of the season likely buys him another year; given the injury to Winston; the injuries to Kwon & Lavonte for the first 1/2 of the season almost; and the hurricane f*cking us out of a bye.

    I dont think any of that excuses the defense we’ve seen for many games; or the offensive play calling / play style that isn’t very effective given the talent we have.

    If we keep koetter i just hope he gives up play calling and the offseason is all about culture changing. Easier said than done though.

  56. Lord Cornelius Says:

    “DB55 Says:
    November 14th, 2017 at 4:33 pm
    shooter Says:
    November 14th, 2017 at 4:26 pm
    Trade Evans for a 2 & 4 round pick..
    When I talk about the meth capitol of the world, this is what I’m talking about.”

    LOL how did I miss this

  57. DB55 Says:


    All I know is that I keep seeing Sheldon Rankins on highlight reels. Meanwhile the guy selected 1 pick prior to Rankins is sitting on the bench. Ijs

    Honestly same argument can be made about Aaron Donald or OBJ. Ijs

    Although OBJ would have run out this town about 2 years ago. Ijs.

  58. DB55 Says:

    Lol. True story corn. True story.

  59. Bird Says:

    Whoever said trade mike Evans ? Wow

    The best player on the team. Wow

  60. Bird Says:

    Mike is open every play cause he is a freak. Not to many guys his size with that quickness and long strides.

  61. Joeypoppems Says:

    There is a big difference between tanking and not being good enough to win games. The Bucs are the ladder.

  62. Bobby M. Says:

    I have to wonder if it was a coincidence the Bucs defense came out energetic knowing Winston wouldn’t see the field? We win a few straight with Winston on the bench, Licht and the Bucs will have a mess on their hands. I think everyone understands the investment in Winston and they know to walk the company line….but there’s a vibe that some of the vets want less “rah-rah” and more production from Winston.

  63. JimmyJack Says:

    Some of you fans need to grow up. This team still has no identity……..Tanking does nothing extablish a losers mentality firmly within this team. Any fan wishing that needs to give up…..We will wake you up when it’s draft time, your not needed.

    The fact is that the mental approach to the game takes you further then mere talent. Not to mention…….Top picks aren’t as franchise-changing as you say they are. You don’t even have to look beyond your own teams history to see that.

  64. Lamarcus Says:


    This bookie kept it real. He DID know that jw is my favorite player. The negative on Jw: run game!!! Jw accuracy is no issue to him or his bookie colleagues. Jw footwork is sloppy which is issue with his deep ball. But jw downfall will throwing too much with no run game. But they don’t grade accuracy when it comes to betting. Overall team/weather/streaks/ and who is playing center are their deciding factors. Over/under is 8 only because jw gives them 4 to 5 wins with the other qbs on our team gets 3 to 4 wins. Wow. Vegas was built on losers mind you

  65. unbelievable Says:

    DB55 Says:
    November 14th, 2017 at 4:33 pm
    shooter Says:
    November 14th, 2017 at 4:26 pm
    Trade Evans for a 2 & 4 round pick..
    When I talk about the meth capitol of the world, this is what I’m talking about.

    When I say these people or you people this is who I’m talking to.

    LOLOLOL, thank you DB.

    @Defense Rules –
    that’s a really good assessment, but I think this defense could be built up pretty quickly. Just think how much difference having 1, or god forbid, 2 solid D-lineman would improve things for us. Add in a new o-lineman, and we would see significant improvement in a single year.

    @LC and @365- also great takes.

    I say F@ck draft position. We won’t be top 3, and after that the amount you get for trading diminishes. It’s a 50/50 prospect in the 1st round anyways.

    This is about pride, and getting rid of this horrible losing culture that has plagued us literally, since our Super Bowl win.

  66. ClwJB Says:

    Finish with a 6-2/5-3 second half of the season and the regime isn’t going anywhere -the season starting with displaced games, injuries, suspensions is enough to calm the “noise” from a bad year that was supposed to be good…

    4-4 or less and its anyones call…this ownership group is anything but patient.

    Man, I loved the Gruden years and at least we always had a shot…even when all the resources were going to the pitch instead of the field…

    But in today’s game, it’s year to year roster manipulation and that is not his forte’ – if he doesn’t come with a top notch team builder on the personnel side, we are no better off than we are today

    The trenches are atrocious on this Bucs team…can someone rebuild both lines in one offseason???

  67. Bucsmon Says:

    I agree, don’t sit him. The only way the fans and the coaching are going to see what/who we have is to let him play.

    In his 3rd year, the Homers for JW keep talking about his 4000 yds both 2 yrs but much of that was Garbage yards in games we were losing and also because we throw so many times. The same trend has happened this year and the important Stats, QB Rating, Yards per Att, Completion %, TDs to Ints have been in the middle of the pack and in QB Rating near the end of the top 20. If we had a Lights out defense we could live with that but with all these weapons I just have not seen from year 1 a Franchise QB.

    The Deep Ball accuracy has never gotten better and the tag really should be ‘Turnover Machine’.
    2015 17 TOs
    2016 24 TOs
    2017 9 TOs in 6 full games and 2 half games (only a slight improvement on Interceptions because we’ve seen more shorter passes this season)

    J. Freeman 2.0 once the Dust settles over all the Hype of 1 year with a winning record. With other QBs we’ve had like Chris Sims, McCown, etc there was really never any Hype because those guys didn’t have a false sense of success because of 1 season with a winning record. We need a QB that is a top 12 or better by their 2nd season.
    Comparing Peyton Manning is not honest because he had 1 rotten season his rookie year but his improvement year 1 to year 2 was Night & Day.

  68. Lamarcus Says:

    Compare manning stats is 40 game to jw. He was right. Although manning seems to be interception is own fashion nobody was calling his bust thru 3 years

    Manning 43 ints
    Jw 33 ints

    But this bookie said “similar career paths” as manning. Maybe colts were crying about not drafting leaf????
    Or Jw was having his breakout year before the injury? Jw was on pace for 41 tds 12 ints before the az beat down

  69. Joeypoppems Says:

    I dont get it. Did we not just finish strong last season? Wasn’t winning week 17 and going 9-7 instead of 8-8 supposed to get rid of the losing culture? Wasnt that supposed to be about pride? The growth of a young, hungry team?

    And what happened? Here we are at 3-6. Still talking about getting rid of the losing culture. Still talking about playing for pride. Still hoping that this young team shows something.

    Winning meaningless games is exactly that. Meaningless. Morale victories mean nothing.

  70. Lamarcus Says:

    Losing culture franchise is what all of us know for sure.

  71. Defense Rules Says:

    @unbelievable … “good assessment, but I think this defense could be built up pretty quickly.” Beg to differ on that one unbelievable. Take a realistic look at what we need on defense for starters. DLine (assuming tmaxcon doesn’t trade GMC for another dancing bear): GMC will be 30 next spring & McDonald will be 31. Baker & Siliga are probably both goners, and we don’t know what we have in Stevie T. So, probably need 2 DTs for starters. Ayers will be 33 when next season starts & his contract is up anyways (might just call it quits). Gholston & Russell are both keepers IMO, as is Spence (assuming his shoulder get fixed this time). So we probably need 2 DEs, in addition to 2 DTs.

    LB corps looks to be set, but CB could easily turn out to be a nightmare if Grimes retires (which I think he will). That leaves us needing at least 2 CBs … for the outside, not nickel (shutdown corners are hard to find in FA & take time to develop if drafted). We also need at least 1 safety (maybe 2). So we’re talking about a defense that’ll need probably 6-7 quality players … at a time when our offense needs probably 2 OLinemen & 1 RB. Take a good look at who’s available in FA this coming year and what the 2018 draft will probably look like, then tell me again that ‘this defense can be built up pretty quickly”. I’m thinking 2 yrs minimum, 3 yrs more likely IF Licht does it right.

  72. BrianBucs Says:

    Jameis Winston = NFL head coach killer

  73. unbelievable Says:

    Well that’s kind of worst case scenario on all positions. Some of which will probably happen, some may not.

    But I guess my take would also be the best case scenario. (Grimes doesn’t retire, etc.).

    I’m not saying it would be top-5, but you get a few more guys on the D-Line and the secondary can probably hack it for another season. Our corners look like they have actually been improving the last few weeks (slightly). You are correct about signing some more DTs, but they would prob be back-up / role players, not starters. We need some real DEs though. Badly.

  74. Lamarcus Says:

    Jw hasnt killed a coach or anybody. Where did u get that info? Brianbucs?

  75. JimmyJack Says:

    It shouldn’t have to be all doom and gloom for the defense. They have spent four years trying to build this offense and it is actively getting worse. They have ignored the defense in most drafts and shopped from the clearance rack for defenders.

    I have no idea what the plan for this offense was but to spend 4 years building it and you still can’t run the ball is a freaking disgrace! We are left with a one dimensional underachieving offense with an aging and unaddressed defense. We are not a badass team and we have no identity.

    I have no faith this regime can establish the winning culture we have been begging for. I see the media everyday cling to a 9-7 record from the distant past but I’m not buying. They didn’t win the big ones last year(or really even bother showing up) they were unprepared and quit in our big games this year. I see no hope this group can figure it out next year.

  76. Buccaneer scotty Says:

    It’s not silly he can’t hit a wide open wr to save his life! You have a better chance of winning the lottery!! And the are sitting a healthy Winston now he was never hurt it just a excuse for his inaccuracies

  77. JimmyJack Says:

    I kind of got off subject at the end of that post and started to rant.

    But I did wanna say the problems on defense should not be such a factor here. They built this team to win with offense and that hasn’t worked for two years under this coach now.

    They went out and spent one draft trying to address the defense and whiffed big time……If they had a clue they would have realized this and drafted more defense but they don’t know their own team apparently. It’s the same thing they did with the Oline……..Got a bunch of runstoppers a few years ago then failed to realize it wasn’t working and address it.

  78. JimmyJack Says:


  79. Lamarcus Says:

    Jimmy jack

    Ur right about that this team spent for years and multiple draft choices on offense and today we are left 1 dimensions. Big issue here. Then fans expect a 23 yr to make up the for the rest of the BUST

    We have to admit dm supporters like myself are WRONG. Dm is done. I think he has one good game left and that’s questionable. Dm is at his worse. Those drugs smoked HIM!!!. He is toast. Dm needs to go asap

  80. USFBUC Says:

    The point here some of you are forgetting or failing to realize is that this team has already given up. When the Bills beat us the team lost their will to win. Look at the stats from the last three games and it’s clear the fight is gone in most of the team.

  81. Brian D. Says:

    Rare moment where I completely agree with you guys!

  82. JimmyJack Says:

    Agree Lamarcus,
    I also supported Martin but realized he is done in the Saints game. Barber got into that game and you could see our offense come to life. Of course that drive was ruined by a pentalties.

    What really bothers me is what takes this coach so long to see these things. He rolled out Martin again last week and again we got nothing.

    Remember last year when he tried to use Sims as a feature back? It was a bad idea to begin with but why the hell was Sims used that way for 3-4 games before trying Quiz? Horrible coaching decision……Now this year he has Sims lining up as a receiver? He sucks as a route runner. Why keep him there?

    Why have Evans running 30 yards downfield on 3rd&3 when he is the best ad-lib WR in football? Where is Hump on third down when he is our best possession receiver? Whatever the coach thinks he is doing is wrong and keeps getting proven as such over time……….I didn’t even mention his defense.

    A thought occurred to me during the Jets game about Winston missing deep balls………Does he ever throw deep posts? Correct me if I’m wrong but most all of his deep misses are flys on the sideline………Does Dirk even consider that maybe Winston could find success if the play is directly in front of him? I can’t give Dirk any benefit based on what I wrote above.

  83. JimmyJack Says:

    Humphries dropped a ball the other day and had a game losing fumble a few games ago.

    I always believed that when Hump was returning punts it helped him in the passing games. You gotta be ready to take a hit as a returner and I always thought that helped him going across the middle.

    Maybe I am reading to much into it but maybe his costly errors don’t happen if he has to prepare for gameday differently. Being more involved surely doesn’t hurt either

  84. Lamarcus Says:

    I think the patroits game f this team up and is folk still on the team? I think he is. Joe was right get a run game on this entire offense is fixed. Now the defense I have nothing good to say about them but vh3 is a man press corner, lvd is the teams mvp, and my offseason best pick was beckwith but nothing else is good about the defense. Not even grimes cuz u can’t build on that.

    Yes vh3 will be a top 20 corner in a man press system

  85. westernbuc Says:

    I think Jameis could probably have played last week, but given his actions on the sideline plus his injury, they decided to get him fully healthy and while also benching him for the lack of leadership. Assuming he’s healed enough by next week, he’ll start

  86. Lamarcus Says:

    Ur right

    Sims can be decent outside the tackle. We keep running dive plays.

    Oj howard not getting the rock tells me he has a fumble problem

    Dirk cutter play calling has been suspect. He needs to find his talent he has as the field. I suspect he doesn’t. Jw is not this type qb neither. Jw is not matt Ryan or Gabbert or Garrard or nor Schaub or whatever. They look the same. Fitz and jw look the same.

    I think u can 90 percent of coaches in the world could turn jw into a machine but not koetter?
    Jw is my favorite player but he is not developed from rookie to today. Kinda the same player. Shame on the entire bucs organization for this glaring issue

  87. Lamarcus Says:

    I wouldnt say lack of leadership I’ll say dumb childish leadership. Jw being overhyped before games ended with that fingerlicking comedy act. Stupid. I would bench him for that too. That was crazy. Again koetter not taming him cuz this been issue for yrs. Not prepared.

  88. Bucsmon Says:

    Based on his numbers 10 TDs, 6 Picks, 3 Lost Fumbles Winston was not on pace for 40 TDs and 15 picks. At that rate after 8 games he was on pace for 20 TDs, 12 Ints, 6 Lost Fumbles (18 TOs) compared to 20 TDs.

    2 of the Fumbles was just holding on to the ball too long, not getting it out quickly and another fumble he was getting sacked and tried to do a Brett Favre but it was ill-advised fumble.

    How the Analysts see him as improving is beyond me.

  89. Blake_Bucsfan Says:


    Me, you, and NFLNut seem to be the only people who know wtf is up and what we should actually be doing if we care to improve.

    Matter fact, I just looked up the current draft order now, and by winning a pointless, meaningless game to make casuals feel good, we dropped ourselves from the #4 spot to #10.

    For what? Nothing. No reason at all.

  90. Blake_Bucsfan Says:

    And @NFLNut

    Yeah and for every Richardson, Joekl, and Fisher, There is an Elliot, a Lewan, a Conklin, a Lattimore, or a Ramsey.

    You can absolutely pick up an all-pro non QB in the top 5 or 6 picks.

  91. Blake_Bucsfan Says:

    And as I mentioned to Joe earlier, the 2018 class is looking to be one of the weaker drafts in a while. Not quite 2013 bad, but definitely not as stacked at numerous positions as last year and 2016 were.

    So getting one of the guys who seem to be locks would be really nice, especially considering that basically every team in the top 5, besides arguably SF since they just made the trade for Jimmy G, needs a QB.

    If we can come away with Barkley or Bradley Chubb, that would go a long way to helping to establish some kind of identity that this club so desperately needs.

  92. Tampabaybucfan Says:

    Not simply Buc teams have developed a losing culture but Buc “fans” have also developed a losing culture. “Fans” who constantly hope for Buc losses so that the team receives a better draft position are hopelessly misguided.

    Here’s the logic…..they are depending on the same losing organization to make the right picks…..(Cleveland anyone?)

    How about this novel thought… th f–kin’ game…..every game you can….stomp the $hit out of your opponent…especially in the division….Nothing to play for? How about spoiling Carolina’s, NO’s or Atlanta’s shot at the playoffs.
    How about humiliating them in front of their fans like they humiliated

  93. Tampabaybucfan Says:

    Like they humiliated us…

    Nothing to play for?…….my a$$.

  94. Howard Cosell Says:

    The media will whip the Tampa fans into a Gruden frenzy, and then, just when the frenzy is peaking Gruden will announce that he’s taking the Tennessee job.
    Kind of like Parcells or Chip Kelly but more devastating. Then the media will make fun of Tampa and the Bucs will hire Marvin Lewis and go 2-14 in 2018.

  95. Blake_Bucsfan Says:


    That’s absolutely ridiculous. Moral victories don’t mean a damn thing.

    Especially if they cause you to miss out on a game changing talent.

    Hello, the Cowboys went 4-12 and came away with an all-pro running back.

    Why can’t we do the same?

  96. Smokey Says:

    What has Michael Bennett ever done? One double digit sack season in 8 seasons and that was just 10!?! Dude has a big mouth and does things that draws attention to himself… lol but yeah he’s still better than anyone we have I suppose.

  97. Lamarcus Says:

    Bucs mon

    So it’s jw fault he sucks? Do u watch Bucs football games?

  98. Smokey Says:

    #Grumors Telling y’all Chucky is not going back to the Bucs… don’t care what some of you expert hall of fame joebucsfan experts say or write about. Realist being one of them lol. If he comes down from his throne as the king of ESPN broadcasting he will be the next head coach of your Tennessee Volunteers

  99. Lamarcus Says:

    I don’t want a announcer typically a mnf announcer at that as my head coach sorry.

  100. unbelievable Says:


    The cowboys already had a premier o-line full of studs at every position when they took Zeke that high.

    Put him on our team and he’s a pedestrian back who ppl would be calling a bust for being selected that high.

    We need to fix the trenches: DE, DE, OT, DT

  101. Bucsmon Says:

    Lamarcus- Every QB is eventually held accountable for their play. In almost every pass play there is always a check down, so forcing balls into coverage is not excuseable. On every play there are 3 or 4 reads but zoning in on 1 may work for awhile but eventually turns into overthrows, out of bounds or picks because the defense picks up on your tendencies.

    His accuracy is near the bottom of the top 20.

  102. USFBUC Says:

    Guys I think that is Blake’s point though. With a higher pick we can land a quality player

  103. LongSeason Says:

    If Jameis is healthy he plays. If he is not, don’t play him just to save Koetter’s bacon. Don’t risk the franchise. Hell! I could see Jameis should not have been out there after the Buffalo game. He was playing injured and the type of injury he has could be made worse by playing. I love Jameis toughness, but coaches need to protect the players from themselves not risk the players to protect the coaches job. I would give Koetter a dozen mulligans if the Bucs lost because Jameis needed time to recover. No mulligan now as my belief is Jameis injury was made worse by playing him. F— Koetter.