Koetter Talks Hargreaves Demotion, Production

October 23rd, 2017

Yes, cornerback Vernon Hargreaves, the No. 11 overall pick last year, was dropped yesterday from starting outside cornerback to nickel corner, an important but part-time position.

It was a stunner, considering Hargreaves is just 22 years old and nobody of sound mind drafts nickel corners that early in the NFL Draft.

On the flip side, it was not a stunner because Hargreaves was playing very poorly through the first five games of the season, and was not heeding coaches’ offseason orders and ongoing emphasis to be more aggressive.

Today, Koetter said he liked overall how veteran Robert McClain played outside cornerback in place of Hargreaves yesterday, and he said Hargreaves took a good first step by playing better at nickel than he had on the outside.

Koetter reiterated what he said immediately following the crushing loss in Buffalo: Hargreaves’ possible return outside corner would depend on injuries, and Koetter shared that McClain is now in the NFL concussion protocol.

That’s about as lukewarm as it gets for Hargreaves, who was drafted to be a ballhawk, shutdown corner.

It continues to feel as if the Bucs have thrown in the towel on him, and that looks really bad for general manager Jason Licht.

66 Responses to “Koetter Talks Hargreaves Demotion, Production”

  1. bucster Says:

    Vern and Aguayo in last year’s draft. Atta boy Jason!

  2. Tom S. Says:

    Hargreaves could crawl into a fetal position and wet himself the next time he’s on the field and never play another snap and he still wouldn’t be the worst Licht pick from the 2016 draft thanks to Roberto Aguayo.

    The hits keep on coming, except for the d-line, those hits are pretty rare.

  3. DB55 Says:

    I bet you any amount of money Elliot makes all these fools look like trash. Same way bobo would make hump look like trash but wtf do I know?

  4. DB55 Says:

    The hits keep on coming, except for the d-line, those hits are pretty rare.
    Football is hard. I want to be an actor. I don’t want to get hit. – future hof (lmao) top 5, best dt Tampa and the world has ever seen. Mr. McDuck

  5. MadMax Says:

    And dont give me this Jameis did this and does that….sets records CRAP! GDDMNIT!! I know Rudy fumbled, out of JW’s control, (bad on you rudy, youre cut) but when the mfer is making bad decisions and throwing interceptions….yall think he’s not the problem after looking at stats?….WHAT ABOUT LOOKING IN THE GAME WHILE ITS PLAYING!!!

    I know what I see. yeah the D is fked, but this game was only close because of our kicker Murray!!

    This isnt on VHIII, and F you to anyone for thinking so!

  6. DB55 Says:


    Name 1 qb in the league with zero ints. Go I’ll wait.

  7. MadMax Says:

    and that matters because???? ill wait too

  8. BucFanFromOH Says:

    grabs popcorn…

  9. MadMax Says:

    Bottom line, $hit team with $hit talent coaching them….warriors and winners on paper but paper tigers on the field, which translates to more losing….another losing season….4 wins maybe…im sick og this fkn $hit!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  10. unbelievable Says:

    Madmax talking out his a$$ as usual.

    Lol. Yea blame Jameis for that loss. Such a dumb fan base.

    You can blame Jameis for the Pats game (along with Koetter and the kicker) but the Last 2 games have been on the defense. Simple as that.

  11. MadMax Says:

    and unbelievable with his contorted words of wisdom….nothing new, another paper tiger

  12. Bucsfanman Says:

    As Lord Cornelius so eloquently puts it, “our defense sh!t the bed!”
    Somebody puh-lease tell Hargreaves to stop shaking his finger! His supposed “passes defensed” were a drop and a bad throw. Just shut up and play!

  13. Lord Cornelius Says:

    “MadMax Says:
    October 23rd, 2017 at 3:07 pm
    and that matters because???? ill wait too”

    It matters because you need perspective when making comments or else you’re just going to sound like a complete moron to any educated fan.

    No QB is playing perfectly. All have multiple bad throws a game. All of them typically turn the ball over at least once per game on average.

    Winston may have had the best performance of any QB last week – both by eye test and statistically – yet you are here bashing him still.

    So you sound like a moron. Pretty simple. Stop following this team if it makes you so angry. That isn’t healthy man.

  14. MadMax Says:

    But the other losses, you blame JW3….you’re catching on.

    Dont get me wrong, i know he has his moments (LOOK, HE FINALLY FOUND OJ OPEN) but the moments he doesnt have outweigh them.

  15. TheBucsAnthem Says:

    😬 😬 😬 😬 😬 😬

    ……….kicking that same damn can down the road again!!!

    😬 😬 😬 😬 😬 😬

  16. WyomingBucsFan Says:

    What happend to this guy, makes no sense. Vernon looks really slow this year. He ran a respectable 40ty but when you watch him he’s getting walked for some reason. This is obviously why he has been playing so far off. Now they got him at nickle and he can’t play off. He’s got help now but he’s still trailing the receiver. I think this guy is losing muscle mass and thus losing his explosiveness.

  17. sorryitriggeredyou Says:

    You know when you break up with that chick that’s really great in bed but crazy up stairs… you try to let her down easy and safely so she doesn’t snap well that’s what’s going on with this staff. They know they are screwed, not coaching well etc… they are going to devise every kind of scapegoat possible.They’ll do anything to deflect the blame that’s squarely on THEM. They demoted VHIII instead of saying, “great coverage starts up front” which everybody knows. DBAG55 made a great point about Elliot, why the fak is he not getting a look? Oh because he’s not VHIII got to save face for Licht that’s why. Ward is bitching now and rightfully so… but why not start him? Oh cause Evans is out there now, again saving face for Licht’s pick. So the Glazers are going to have to cut to the chase and let her crazy ass go, block her number, delete their facebook and move on…

  18. MadMax Says:

    Alright LC, you know i respect you man….you can check me, but is it the play calling or is it Jameis? Man we’ve seen some stuff so be real.

  19. LakeLand Says:

    According to the Elias Sports Bureau, the 30-27 victory over Tampa Bay was the first time in franchise history that the Bills have rallied to win a home game in which they trailed by at least seven points in the final three minutes of the fourth quarter.

    Think about that for a second. Since their inception in the old AFL in 1960, the Bills have now won 245 home games, and what we saw Sunday had never happened in the first 244 of those victories. The Bills have pulled out a few of these late-game turnarounds on the road, but the last one occurred in 1991 when they roared back to beat the Los Angeles Raiders at the Memorial Coliseum.

    Before Sunday, Taylor was 2-16 in games where the Bills fell behind by four or more points at any stage of a game, but he put one in the β€˜W’ column with a solid performance that included 268 passing yards and a touchdown, 53 yards rushing, and no turnovers.

  20. TouchDownTampaBay Says:

    MadMax with the most idiotic post of all time. Jameis throw nearly 75% yesterday, 380 yards and played lights out and this moron says it was the kicker that kept us in the game. You sir are a complete idiot!

  21. TouchDownTampaBay Says:

    Oh and 3 TD passes, but it was all about the kicker! SMGDH!

  22. sorryitriggeredyou Says:

    @WyomingBucsFan there’s nothing wrong with him. When your have no pressure on the QB as a corner you are faaaaaaaked. I played in college and I was a terrible corner the first year but when we got a bad ass DE to transfer from the WAC, no one was throwing seams, skinnys or fades it was quick easy to cover slants and drags, quick outs. I still sucked but the secondary was excellent that year cause the dline got pressure. VHIII is not Grimes or Revis or Cromartie or Sherman who can hang with a WR indefinitely very few corners can, so VHIII got exploited and exposed as…. average. Did his play regress because of it? Yeah he went soft cause he knew the D line wasn’t getting there. He did he best.

  23. doolnutts Says:

    sorryitriggeredyou —Completely agree… To me this all starts on the DL…. I have been banging this drum for years as have many others on here. We MUST invest considerable resources all along the DL next year. Between different draft choices and OL. I would be fine with continuing to invest until we have multiple producers…. This has been our biggest story since Simeon Rice’s departure……

  24. Kobe Faker Says:


    I would like to say that Koetter and kobe Faker has amicably agreed that I will no longer press the FREEOJSTOCKER Movement

    Koetter has agreed in principle that he will target OJ Howard minimum 6 times per game for the rest of the 2017 season

    “Rest easy my fellow Bucsfans”

    Kobe Faker

  25. sorryitriggeredyou Says:

    @doolnutts I beat the s#it out of that drum too bro. Im sure you knew this was going to be a problem after the draft and FA ended. So, why the FAK didn’t the coaching or GM see this issue? It’s mind blowing.

    Agreed go all in on DLine next draft AND FA. I hate to say this, I love GMC but I think his time has ended as a Buc so we need to replace him, wont be easy!

  26. BurgDweller Says:

    Ouch, first and second round failures. Let’s hope these are just growing paines for HG3.

  27. MadMax Says:

    tdtb, 30-21 without Murray (including his 50, and thats not a big deal????) but youre mediocre and settle for mediocraty.

  28. 813bucboi Says:

    half of the problem was fixed for VHG….

    play him at the LOS….simple as that….did mcclain not get beat deep while playing in soft coverage?….

    the second part is getting rid of “coach my scheme smitty”….that would upgrade the entire defense….

    switch to 34 and play man press coverage and watch this defense take flight!!!!!….GO BUCS!!!!

  29. Lord Cornelius Says:

    “but is it the play calling or is it Jameis? Man we’ve seen some stuff so be real.”

    Sorry for being an a4shole man I’m raging from all the trolls today lol. I really do apologize and take back the tone of that.

    Imo everything was solid yesterday in terms of play calling / Jameis. We stayed committed to the run most of the game even though it was going terribly. We’d probably have run more if we had any success; but we at least still ran it 21 times despite a 2.5 YPC average.

    We moved the ball basically every drive at will. The first one was screwed by penalties and the 2nd could have been executed better. The strip sack on Winston on the 3rd drive was just a wiff by Donavon Smith and would have been the same result with any QB. Dude got to him in like 1 second from his blind side. The interception was bad and a forced unnecessary throw. That was his 1 big mistake of the entire game and cost us 0 points in the end.

    He even finally hit Djax in stride on a 50+ yard bomb but it was called back for a penalty (for the he can’t hit Djax crowd).

    Winston moved the ball basically every drive; and threw 3 TDs in the 2nd half which were all clutch. The fact that we had no run game; no defense; and still controlled the time of possession is pretty much all on Winston leading long drives with his arm; converting 3rd downs; etc.

    If the offense executes like that and scores 27+ points we should win 95+% of the time with just an average to below average defense. But right now we look worse than that outside of our Chicago performance and maybe the Pats. We looked absolutely terrible against the Cards/Vikes/Bills and none of them have elite offenses. Even Eli Manning had time against us and his line sucks.

    That’s the story of the season imo and why this has been a disappointment. There’s a huge difference in playing like a top 5-10 defense and a bottom 5 defense and we’ve visually just seen it.

  30. WyomingBucsFan Says:

    He lost weight this year, look it up. But I do agree with you on pass rush makes guys look better. I will say this though, Vernon is a better tackler then Grimes. Grimes is really not sticking his nose in the play anymore. Kinda losing respect for the guy. He still can cover although. We need some DB talent for sure.

  31. stvcl Says:

    Man…bash the team and the coaches? WTF? We’re Bucs fans, this ain’t nothing new. Every off season we buy into the hype, get all excited only to be disappointed when we don’t make the playoffs. It’s what we do. I’m not quite ready to throw in the towel for this season (hell we’re 2-3) but if we don’t make the playoffs this year I won’t be burning my Bucs gear and yelling for Koetter to walk the friggin’ plank. We have a young team with talented players on both sides of the ball. Defensive line is our biggest deficit (again) only having generated 7 sacks this year. Jacksonville had 10 YESTERDAY. Maybe just a draft away from being a dominant team. I hope so. Go BUCS!

  32. Lamarcus Says:

    8 years of basement and all we talk about jw missing passes. F outta here. How ripping gmc for being flat in AZ?

  33. DB55 Says:

    This dude on the radio is a complete moron.

  34. MadMax Says:

    Na, youre not an a$$ LC, im the one playing that role, but the way you broke that down, Sir you are on to it! I salute! I see JW3’s mistakes and may go overboard to some….just being critical sometimes, maybe too much though. I know our D suffers from lack of pass rush and coaching, and its showing.

  35. DB55 Says:

    It’s really really really hard to listen to TB sports fans. Completely clueless.

  36. Welcome Back Koetter Says:

    We’d have a lot less problems if some of you paid this much attention to your wife and kids.

  37. FireJasonLicht Says:

    @ DB55 youre a DODO if you think BOBO would embarrass anyone on our roster but himself and if Elliot was any good he would be starting. theres a reason that trash can isn’t on anyones roster. FSU players are trash once they get to the NFL. that’s a known fact. Winston didn’t lose the game for us but he damn sure didn’t win it. and his inaccuracy issues continues to rear its ugly head. We should’ve drafted Mariota!!

  38. DB55 Says:


    I’ll give you this. When Jameis is inaccurate ask yourself how many people are in his face. I admit Jameis is shock behind this line. The fact he hasn’t gotten seriously injured is beyond me bc everyone else who depends on that line has gotten hurt including Griffin, Doug and Jac. Nevertheless Jameis overcomes and fights through.

    When he has time to throw, a clean pocket and hasn’t been beat up all game dude is straight money.

  39. Wewantgruden Says:

    DK sure is Blessed to have such a soft group of media beat writers asking him questions at his pressers. He would be eaten alive in a real NFL media market. He is way over his head. Get Gruden back in here now!!!!!

  40. GhostofSchiano Says:

    GMC is a TEAM CAPTAIN. As such why has he not called a defense players only meeting and get this thing fixed. As a leader (A Veteran leader at that) he should be motivating his teammates like R. Lee Emery in full metal jacket, of course he won’t swear. But you get the point. I am beginning to think some on this website are justified in their critique of GMC. I like GMC, big fan, but he needs to be the leader of the defense that Sapp was. If your reading this GMC step up and take control of your unit CAPTAIN!

  41. Wausa Says:


    Your posts are incredibly idiotic.

  42. DB55 Says:


    I’ve been trying to tell these people they don’t know chit but wtf do I know? Listening to the radio is actually hilarious.

    They keep saying baker doesn’t do anything yet he had 4 tackles yesterday. They keep saying our 3tech gets double and triple teamed every play which is a complete joke! And even if he did guess what? That’s his mf job.

    This whole town is soft af, they’d be laughed out of town in the northeast.

  43. DayOnePaul Says:

    Light is going to take some heat in the media & in the stands very soon, and possibly from above. Although I have reviewed and championed the good picks he’s made in Kwon, Jameis, OJ, Mike Evans, and Marpet…and remember his FA signings of Brent Grimes, Brian Anger, Cameron Brate, and Robert Ayers…he’s baring the crosses of an iffy Donovan Smith, the failure of Nick Folk, the injured Noah Spence, no pt Ward, no holes Sweezy, no practice Chris Baker, no successfully addressed pass rush, a 3.7 ypc running game, no coverage Hargreaves, no one wants him Aguayo, and no ball skills Ryan Smith.
    The longer this drought lasts, the more glaring his percentage of “misses” will become. Of course, a four game win streak would make most of them unmemorsble. Except for that pesky move of trading up to draft the freakin kicker who has now been replaced and out-performed by a free agent retread.

  44. sorryitriggeredyou Says:

    @WyomingBucsFan YES! So soft on Koetter man. Someone needs to get on him. Stop asking softball as questions.

    @Lord Cornhole I agree… the run though was only stuck with so the play action could develop, BUT it worked EVERY time. Once JW gets more accurate with the deep ball this Offense will be down right scary. This team is on the way up as soon as they go 3-4 πŸ™‚

  45. Buccaneer Bonzai Says:

    Hargreaves is 22 years old and still developing. He’ll be fine. The Bucs are not giving up on him, he just isn’t ready yet.

  46. Buccaneer Bonzai Says:

    Winston did great, MadMax. He not only connected with OJ for two touchdowns, but he finally connected with our speedster as well on a deep pass (it was just called back on a penalty).

  47. Supersam Says:

    Can’t blame Winston for this loss guys sorry, he played a good game, our offense isn’t the problem it’s the defense. Some heads have to roll.

  48. Broy34 Says:

    The answer to your question Db- nothing

  49. Supersam Says:

    Offense don’t need much I think it’s set, defense in the other hand? Oh boy. I’d clean house Baker, Conte, Tandy, Ayers, Grimes too let him walk, to much drama with his wife, Hargreaves keep at nickel. So basically you need 4 new defensive ends, Noah spence is a bust. 3 new safety’s 3 new corners and 3 more defensive tackles. Might be time to trade McCoy while he still has value, we’re gonna need the cap space. 1 sack every other game isn’t enough for what he’s getting paid.

  50. Reach87 Says:

    Lord corn on point as usual. Good analysis. I still think we are close and are about to win some games this year to keep us in the hunt this year. It has happened with worse talent (2016), and we have men of character on this team. Keep the faith. Go Bucs!

  51. Joeypoppems Says:

    That entire 2016 draft class is looking more and more like a let down each week.

    VH3 has arguably been the worst player at his position in the entire league statistically speaking.

    Noah Spence hasn’t lived up to expectations, nor will he unless this team switches to a base 3-4 (imo anyway)

    Aguyo and Vitale arent on the team anymore

    Benenoch and Bond are decent depth I guess.

    Its still kinda early but the whole class appears to be a miss which could, and arguably should, cost Licht his job this offseason.

  52. DB55 Says:

    Mike Evans Capatain. 98 yards 1 TD.

    Jameis Winston Captain 400 yards passing 3 tds.

    LaVonte David Captain 14 yes 14 tackles and a FF recovery in the 4th.

    Gmc Captain 1 tackle (even though I didn’t see it and it was prob a gimme stat.)

    One of these Captains is NOT like the other. #Facts

  53. MadMax Says:

    Good point DB…..im trying

  54. sorryitriggeredyou Says:

    @Supersam I agree with all but VHIII no way to keep a 1st round pick at nickle, he’ll have to put up and fight for starting job next year or get cut. Lots of good nickle corners out there Lenard Johnson is one of them sniff tear no idea why we let him go… oh wait cause we drafted VHIII

  55. Rod Munch Says:

    Who blew the coverage on the big play where the Bucs give up a TD on defense at the end of the game? It was McClain on the tackle but was it his guy? Because basically if it was his guy then McClain gave up a huge play that was just as important in the loss as the midget Humphries fumbling the game away.

    For VH3 I don’t get it. He mostly had a solid rookie year and a solid preseason, then just fell off a cliff. What I don’t get is why he’s playing 15 yards off the line of scrimmage on every play – why and how does that happen? Is it by choice of the coaches or is it him freelancing?

    Anyways his size and speed to me always made him very unlikely to be a shutdown corner – and the rule always is you draft defensive linemen in the 1st since you can find corners in the 2nd. We’re a very very very long way from saying he’s a bust – he can easily bounce back since I think he has talent – just not shutdown talent, but a solid starter.

    As for McClain he should be your 4th corner, not starting. That’s what happens when you have no depth on defense and think Ryan Smith is your 3rd corner. Reminds me of that incredible preseason article where Joe said the Bucs strongest position with the most depth was corner… when literally it was the Bucs weakest position with the least depth (well OK safety was worse, but no Monday morning QBing needed as I, and many others, said so at the time).

  56. DB55 Says:

    Who blew the coverage on the big play where the Bucs give up a TD on defense at the end of the game? It was McClain on the tackle but was it his guy?
    It looked like Justin Evans blew the coverage.

  57. LakeLand Says:

    Robert McClain shouldn’t even be on the roster. He just another Bum, Ex-Falcon that Dirk Koetter and Mike Smith love so much. Koetter and Smith is worst than Lovie, for bringing in bums ex players of their’s. Pathetic is the word for this franchise. From the Waterboy to the Owners.

  58. PriMech54 Says:

    Pretty easy to disappear on the stat sheet when the offensive gameplan is literally to double team your gap and run a stretch, off tackle or qb rollout to the opposite side of the field. Some of you are handicapped. Our line is so bad that Ayers was one on one with a tight end on his lone sack of the season yesterday. In case you missed that – again – they lined up mother**ckn NICK O’LEARY by design on Robert Ayers as the T & G doubled up on GMC, and it STILL took almost 5 seconds to get to Tyrod. Take a second to try and compute how much of an absolute joke that is, then use your newfound wealth of knowledge on the situation to try and decipher why it is that our secondary looks like trash.

  59. DB55 Says:


    Can you walk us thru the last td lesean scored where he ran up the guy untouched? Who’s gap was that?

  60. Conte Piscateli Says:


    That was an excellent breakdown of Winston’s game. I actually think given the way the defense played, and the fact that the Bills defense is one of the best in the league that it may have been Winston’s best game as a pro. He was very effective checking down to backs and even Djax a few times, and as accurate as we’ve seen down field. I felt very confident that last drive that he would lead us down the field, unfortunately Hump lost the ball.

  61. Captain Big Stick Says:

    “It continues to feel as if the Bucs have thrown in the towel on him, and that looks really bad for general manager Jason Licht.”

    Yes Sir… This would be a big miss for Mr. Licht and his squad upstairs at one buc. Who knows what it might look like with a pass rush though, at this point I think VHIII is shell shocked and needs some time to re-center his head space.

  62. unbelievable Says:

    Guess you just needed a different messenger.

  63. Wewantgruden Says:

    How did DK get the head coach job??? See below. He must have pics on someone.

    Head coaching record
    Regular season:
    NCAA: 66–44 (.600)

    NFL: 11–11 (.500)
    Postseason: NCAA bowls: 4–2 (.667)
    NCAA: 70–46 (.603)

    NFL: 11–11 (.500)

  64. TouchDownTampaBay Says:

    I am always amazed by some of our fans. I guess it comes from the old Mariota lovers because they cant be watching the game objectively. Jameis played like a hall of famer Sunday. Probably his best game of the year and we get guys claiming he was mediocre at best and a field goal kicker was the only reason we were in the game. I guess they feel like a jilted lover because they didn’t get the oft injured and over rated former Duck. I mean you would have to be blind not to recognize Winston’s outstanding performance Sunday.

  65. TouchDownTampaBay Says:

    Best game of his career, not year

  66. Greg Says:

    VHIII problems=nothing a random drug test would most likely reveal