Bigger Fish To Fry

March 15th, 2017

Fan of Cam Brate.

Seems like the talking heads agree.

Yesterday, Joe brought word of former NFL personnel director and ex-safety Louis Riddick going giddy about the Bucs offense, saying the lone piece to the puzzle is a running back, while propping up the man who led the NFL in touchdowns by a tight end in 2016, Cam Brate.

Add Pat Kirwan, the former Jets coach and personnel chief, to the list.

A caller to Kirwan’s excellent radio show, “Movin’ the Chains,” is one of those Bucs fans dissatisfied with one of the top tight ends in the game. The caller mentioned Brate is a good but he asked Kirwan if the Bucs would still draft a tight end high next month.

“This is a nice draft for tight ends but I don’t think they have to jump on one early,” Kirwan said. “I think they can get creative and find one in the fifth round, that is a complement to Cameron [Brate] and that is fine. You have other things to solve there, in my opinion.”

Kirwan doesn’t see it either.

What is one of those thing to solve? Running back, Kirwan noted, just like Riddick said.

For Joe, the folks that pound the table for this O.J. Howard at No. 19 and completely overlook the fact Brate led the league in touchdown catches for a tight end are one step from the shrill crowd that claim Gerald McCoy needs to be replaced because he helps opponents off the ground.

131 Responses to “Bigger Fish To Fry”

  1. Bird Says:

    Oj Howard going before that so all good. He may go around 10. Saying he may best best talent for tight end in last decade

  2. Joeypoppems Says:

    Now that the first wave of free agency has died down, imo the 3 biggest needs for the team is RT, RB, and Safety in no particular order. Would like to see these position addressed with the first 3 picks. I would go RT 1st, Safety 2nd, RB 3rd but as long as those 3 positions get addressed I’m fine with whichever order they choose to do it in.

  3. NutterBuccer Says:

    I don’t think people want to replace brate rather than pair brate with a Howard or someone else. People envision a gronk/Hernandez combo. Not saying either are the two but the fact they both played at the same time all the time. However whatever direction this team goes I have faith in the Lichts drafting abilities.

  4. Kevin V. Says:

    So Joe, his back injury is of absolutely no concern to you?

  5. macabee Says:

    Players interviewed at the Combine

    Michael Roberts, TE, Toledo (COM)
    Evan Engram, TE, Ole Miss (COM)
    David Njoku, TE, Miami (COM)
    Curtis Samuel, RB/WR, Ohio State (COM)
    JuJu Smith-Schuster, WR, USC (COM)
    Tanoh Kpassagnon, DE/3-4DE, Villanova (COM)
    Caleb Brantley, DT/NT, Florida (COM)
    Marlon Mack, RB, South Florida (COM)

    Players with scheduled private visits to Tampa

    O.J. Howard, TE, Alabama (PRI)
    Jordan Willis, DE, Kansas State (PRI)

    Players who had Pro Day meetings

    Josh Tupou, DT, Colorado (PRO)
    Brian Hill, RB, Wyoming (PRO)
    Ryan Anderson, OLB, Alabama (PRO)

    Players who had on campus workouts

    Eric Wilson, OLB, Cincinnati (WOR)
    Tedric Thompson, SS, Colorado (WOR)

    Players who have local visits in Tampa (none yet)

    *All info per

    Maybe they’re looking at so many TEs is to throw people off! lol.

  6. Andrew Says:

    Brate was lined up off the Oline more that any other tight end in the NFL. He’s a big body slot receiver. Get a Luke stocker that can catch and let Jameis control the middle of the field. Big mismatch problems if you got a guy like that. 2WR/2TE/1RB sets

  7. MadMax Says:

    No offense to Brate, but there wasnt much else for JW3 to throw to outside of Evans and some Hump calls. Plus Brate isnt the pass blocker we need in a TE who can also catch.

    Look, Im for a later rounder, 3rd if he’s still there Jordan Leggett. Perfect value. And what if Doug has cleaned himself up and comes back strong? Use a later pick on Perine!

    Hit the trenches with those first 2 picks DE/OL or OL/DE!!!

  8. 1sparkybuc Says:

    The kid from Toledo had ONE FUMBLE in his college career as a freshman, and he recovered it. First name escapes me, but Hunt should be the pick in the second round if he’s still there. He won’t need to be taught how to hold onto the ball.

  9. Grt1 Says:

    You have to have talent in the NFL. So if Howard is there you take him. But if the bucs don’t want him then we should go after Escobar from Dallas he can block so he’s pretty much a more athletic Luke Stocker.

  10. mark2011 Says:

    I would like to trade down a few picks, get another second or third, and draft a RB. Teams like Green Bay desperately need a great young RB to give them a chance to compete for the SB, so you wouldn’t want to move down more than a few, but would really allow us to get full value from that pick. Frankly, I’d normally rather get a player at a position with a longer average life span, if we could pick up another pick, I’d think the value would be there..but let’s not draft a kicker with that additional pick.

  11. d-roca Says:

    Exactly. Welcome to smokescreen season buddy. Not saying they wont draft a TE but like kirwan said its not a priority like other things. Go back n see who they hosted on visits from other years n youll see theres no reason to the rhyme. Go bucs

  12. MadMax Says:

    Oh yeah, Kittle! Maybe a 4th value TE.

  13. T in Orlando Says:

    I’m not a pro Howard guy, but if the top 2 RBs and top 3 WRs are gone at 19, I would have no problem if he were the pick. If the theme for the of season is weapons for Winston, what’s wrong with getting one of the best weapons in the draft?

  14. Blake_bucsfan Says:

    You still dont understand it Lee.

    Not surprising from someone who was pounding the table for Johhny 8ball.

    Also not surprising considering you’re a huge fan of one of the worst Gm’s in Bucs history.

    And someone that incessantly denigrated Adam Humphries for 2 years.

    All these things considered, it’s not surprising in the least bit that you’re still peddling this uninspired straw man argument that anyone who see’s tight end in the first round as a legit option hates Cam.

    No ones buying what you’re selling dude.

    Well except your fellow Dalvin fanboys…

  15. mark2001 Says:

    McDougald meeting with the Seahawks this week? Hopefully that doesn’t work out and we can have another shot at him.

  16. Mort Says:

    No problem at all if they take Howard in the first. None. I’d rather have us trade down and take Adoree Jackson later in the first though. Trades are hard to project as you have to find a partner, but I’d love that. A 3rd rounder to slide down maybe ten spots would be great.

  17. mike10 Says:

    #1 Priority IMO: Oline

  18. rrsrq Says:

    PK is really great to listen to and you can always value his opinion, however, Bucs have a visit scheduled for Howard (plus he told me when i called his show that Dan Vitale was the real deal). Nobody is trying to replace Brate, we are talking about weapons for Winston, of the RB’s you want are off the board, the receivers are off the board, why wouldn’t you go with Howard who is a better blocker and more explosive than Brate. Remember when Brate got hurt, not just hurt but his back, you need another starting caliber TE. If he is off the board it won’t matter, but if he is there JL and DK has a decision to make.

  19. rrsrq Says:

    Also would like to see Sidney Jones in the 3rd if he is there, he can sit for a year due to his ACL while waiting in the wings to replace Grimes

  20. jthv Says:


    If you can’t translate what you’ve seen on Tape of Dalvin at FSU to being a formidable addition to this new Bucs offense, then you really have no clue. As it stands right now, we haven’t a #1 RB. Martin is likely done here, Rodgers is a spell RB, Sims a 3rd down RB and behind them is camp fodder.

    As for TE, as much as any Bucs fan should love Cam Brate and his rise to being a great player. He doesn’t have the speed we need from a #1 TE, doesn’t yet have the route ability nor the YAC ability. He’s a great seem route threat but other than that he’s still learning. But speed, agility, acceleration which all leads to YAC can’t be taught. We should be looking for a more athletic #1 TE.

    It is true, I want Dalvin w/ #1 but I also wouldn’t be upset if they took Howard or a DE. We need help at WR too. And the 1st round is where we should all hope we draft a from-Day 1 Starting Caliber player.

    To me, Dalvin and Howard are both Day-1 Starters regardless of Brate’s progression or even if Martin is retained.

  21. TampaBay AllDay Says:

    Lol what? That’s like saying ” you don’t like ME13 if u sign Djax.”

  22. Nole on Sat.-Bucc on Sun. Says:

    But I don’t know what the h3ll I be talking bout and require daily enlightenment from Blake. Yea right.

  23. Blake_bucsfan Says:

    Jthv What I see from Dalvin is a skinny straight line runner with little elusiveness that is going to be injury prone in the NFL.

    But thats just my objective opinion bro.

    We’ll see who’s right 5 years from now.

  24. Love and Warrick Dunn Says:

    Can someone remind me how many games Dalvin Cook missed due to injury in his entire career at FSU?

  25. Nole on Sat.-Bucc on Sun. Says:

    See what Kirwan says makes all the sense. You don’t waste a first on a guy who’s productivity in school does not say he should even be going in the first round one. But two to take a guy that high to be part time player is stupid. I like Kirwan idea of finding a”compliment” to Brate “IN THE LATER ROUNDS” like you people often say. Smart people know Licht adds a special RB to this team then special things will happen for this organization. And I ain’t gotta drop mic. Just common sense dude😂.

  26. jthv Says:

    Dalvin is around 40lbs heavier than Dunn was when he came out of FSU.

    Were defensive players in the 90’s-2000’s smaller and the game less physical?

    Dalvin would be the very best 1st Rnd pick for our team from Day-1 and what if we only get 5 pro bowl years from him? That’ll be 3 more solid years than we got from Doug Martin.

  27. Nole on Sat.-Bucc on Sun. Says:

    You running out of steam using those same dumb quotes about skinny there fella.

  28. Nole on Sat.-Bucc on Sun. Says:

    Amen Jthv.

  29. Buc1987 Says:

    Kirwan makes the most sense. Go get that RB!

  30. Nole on Sat.-Bucc on Sun. Says:

    Again ASJ won the Mackey award. We drafted him in the third.

  31. Guzzie Says:

    Now that the big money free agents are gone, time for Licht to bring in some quality depth, or what he likes to call “bridge players”, RB is in a perfect position to get a quality cheap player to hold the fort till we know our rookie can carry the load, AP or Charles would be cheaper than suspended, injury prone, unreliable Martin, 2 year deal incentive laden, say $3 million with yardage, games played, TD bonuses that’ll pay them up to $6 million if they churn out a 1000 yard, 8 TD, 14 games played type season, all unlikely but wouldn’t surprise anyone if it happened, just saying id rather gamble on those guys producing than Martin, 5’6 Quizz, unproven Barber, 3rd down glass Sims, or any rookie, even Cook

  32. Guzzie Says:

    if those RBs are asking too much they aren’t getting it anywhere

  33. Dubcity06 Says:

    Thats the weakest argument ive seen the Joes make.

    OJ Howard is BPA over any player on the board. Hes way better than Brate, and Jameis will find them both.

    Not to mention, if you remember the saints game and the amount of times Brate got beat in pass blocking (and the right tackle) then youd realize a better blocker at that position makes sense

  34. JAB83 Says:

    The trolls are funny…

    Whos better JW or MM…


    The answer will always be THE GUY THAT PLAYS FOR THE BUCS…

    Just a thought from a true BUCS FAN…

    JL can draft whomever he wants and we can lose every game…

    And you still would not be considered a fan of this team… Just a troll with match and a can of gas…

    Cant wait to see Brate ball out this year… ..

  35. Buc1987 Says:

    Excuse me Doug E Fresh
    Have you ever seen a show with fellas on the mic
    With one minute rhymes that don’t come out right
    They bite, they never write, that’s not polite
    Am I lying?
    No, you’re quite right
    Well tonight on this very mic you’re about to hear
    We swear, the best darn rappers of the year
    So, so, cheerio, yell, scream bravo
    Also, if you didn’t know this is called The Show

  36. Blake_bucsfan Says:

    We drafted asj in the 2nd round. And hebwas a problem child coming off of a pretty severe ankle injury. Howard and Njoku have no injury problems and no off the field issues.

    And as far as comparing Cook to Dunn, the similarities stop with the school they went to. Dunn was a scat back with 4.28 speed and agility/ elusiveness for days.

    Cook is a one-cut back with 4.5 speed and nagging shoulder/hamstring problems. The last Rb we dragged in the 1st was plagued by shoulder and hamstring problems too…

    So yeah I’ll pass.

  37. Blake_bucsfan Says:

    “We love the way Cam has come on. The way the tight end position is, it’s really two positions; you have the “Y” and the “F”, and the Y’s are hard to find. They are very few and far between, so that’s something that every team is always looking for; a guy that can block and a threat in the passing game.

    So you can have two very good tight ends. So, if you draft a tight end high or sign a tight end that has someone like Gronkowski already, that doesn’t mean that they’re unhappy with their starter. You need multiple tight ends; you can do a lot of good things with two tight ends.” – Jason Licht

    Again Joe, Licht has already called you on your BS.

    And Nosbos does it sound like JL is looking for a Tight End in the “later rounds” ?

  38. R.O. Says:

    There are only 2 positions that will have any impact in their 1st year for the Bucs with their 1st round pick. RB and TE. Howard will be gone at 19 and possibly Njoku. Cook will be gone as well. We will either trade up to get the player we want or trade back. We will not sit at 19.

  39. Joeypoppems Says:


    Unless there is a longer quote from Kirwan somewhere, I dont think he said anything about OJ Howard not being worth a 1st round pick because of his production lol. Not sure why you implied that.

  40. admin Says:


    Kirwan was specifically asked about Bucs drafting a tight end “early.”

  41. Guzzie Says:

    RO…a top tackle can make a huge impact when, not if, Dotson gets hurt again, have you seen our depth at tackle, udfa Webster, unproven 5th round guard/tackle Benenoch, or our starting LG/C Pamphile, thats our top need

  42. Joe Says:

    Hes way better than Brate,

    Hard to fathom how a guy who has never taken a snap in the NFL is already “way better” than a guy who led the NFL in TDs for his position.

  43. Joeypoppems Says:

    Kirwan saying the Bucs shouldn’t draft a TE early, which I agree with, doesn’t mean OJ Howard isnt a 1st round prospect.

  44. Nole on Sat.-Bucc on Sun. Says:

    admin you can’t tell’em nothing, he and that Blake feel they are the sharpest knives in the kitchen.

  45. jthv Says:

    The tape doesn’t lie …

    Cook destroyed some of the fastest defenses in the NCAA in Clemson, Miami and UF for years. Then topped his NCAA career off by destroying the media-darlings Michigan and their top-rated Defense … he was always the fastest player on those fields even with his 4.5 speed.

    Enlighten me, will the defensive players he faced in college suddenly get faster because they’re in the NFL or about to be?

    If you don’t like Cook in the 1st, that’s okay. Go back to my 1st comment towards you, I wouldn’t be mad with Howard, a WR or DE if not Cook. But don’t use loose points to corral a short sided view on Cook’s abilities.

    The kid is a stud and will be a perfect 3 Down RB in a Vertical offensive scheme like Tampa’s. Especially with stars like Winston, Evans and now DJax already in place.

  46. SOEbuc Says:

    If I’m correct Joe, you and every other Bucs fan (including myself) have been very much sprouting the term “get weapons for Jameis.” since week three last season. Howard or Njoku would be the blocking TE that could be the final piece of the receiving core puzzle. Other teams defensive backfields will be running in circles the size of the Tampa Bay summertime sun.

  47. LUVMYBUCS Says:

    1st. Evan Engram
    2nd. Budda Baker

  48. FuNkYxMuNkEy Says:

    Brate is a good TE. Pair him with Leggett in the 3rd and we are good. Worry about a RB, WR, and defense.

  49. 813bucboi Says:

    I like Jeremy sprinkle out of Arkansas in round 4….big TE with great hands…..draft donte foreman in round 3….GO BUCS!!!!

  50. Nole on Sat.-Bucc on Sun. Says:

    And R.O. the Ravens have signed Eric Weddle to a 3 year deal. The Colts have signed Robert Turbin to a 3 year deal. Now that leaves the eagles who after losing Barwin I could see some monks being right about them taking Taco. If not after visiting an eagles board its easy to tell they’re fan base believes they are in need of a shut down corner. Those were the only three teams that really concerned me when it can to the RB position homie.

  51. Nole on Sat.-Bucc on Sun. Says:

    Jthv amen again.

  52. Joeypoppems Says:


    I dont claim to know everything. Just curious how you came to that conclusion.

  53. Joeypoppems Says:

    What does Eric Weddle have to do with drafting a RB?

  54. Nole on Sat.-Bucc on Sun. Says:

    I’m just sitting back waiting to here the eagles are about to sign Murray who has been seen working out with Wentz over the off season.

  55. Nole on Sat.-Bucc on Sun. Says:

    We’re not moving up won’t be necessary. Dalvin will be right there for the taking at 19.

  56. Nole on Sat.-Bucc on Sun. Says:

    C’mon Pop you have a brain. You can’t forsee how giving a RB big money wouldn’t affect they re draft plans???

  57. Nole on Sat.-Bucc on Sun. Says:

    I’m sorry I meant Danny Woodhead.

  58. Blake_bucsfan Says:

    Drafting a running back in the first round is what would truly be short sighted.

    You have your opinion and unwavering faith in Cook. And I have my doubts.

    Also the Michigan game should have an asterisk because Jabrill Peppers didnt play.

  59. Jeagan1999 Says:

    I think OJ Howard would be an awesome addition to the team, but let’s face it, he could very well be gone by 19. If he is, take the best RB on the board. If he is there somehow, grab him and get a guy like Kamara, Foreman, Samuel, etc. in round 2. Two great TE’s…along with Evans and Jackson….would make Jameis a happy guy, and the Bucs one of the most feared offenses in the league! But it’s all a crapshoot at this point, because we have no idea who the first 18 choices will be. Just have to wait and study all possible scenarios in the meantime!

  60. Joeypoppems Says:

    Ohh Woodhead. Yea that makes more sense now lol. I get what youre saying

  61. Nole on Sat.-Bucc on Sun. Says:

  62. Joeypoppems Says:

    And I do agree with you that at least 1 of the top RBs will fall to #19. Cook is the more likely to fall because he has more questions than Fournette. I can’t say for sure that he will be the pick just because I have no clue what they are thinking and who else will be available, but he will be a strong option.

  63. Nole on Sat.-Bucc on Sun. Says:

    Also some of you are underappreciating Swaggy. GMFB did a side by side comparison of him and Poe yesterday. Past two season’s Swaggy 101 tackles 10.5 sacks 5 forced fumbles 27 balls swatted. Poe 66 tackles 4 sacks 2 forced fumbles. We got a steal in Swaggy man. That was the championship piece right there.

  64. jthv Says:

    Drafting your starting RB in the bottom half of the 1st round would be shortsighted? Even with having the most ???’s on our entire team being at RB? C’mon man!

  65. Nole on Sat.-Bucc on Sun. Says:

    Blake You call it short sighted but clearly there are people out there that favor my belief and don’t feel it would be short sighted. Some would prolly look at Licht and question his mind to pass on a super talent like Dalvin if having the chance to get him. I would be in that crowd. Convential wisdom isn’t set in stone bro its just a common mindset. I’m trying to figure out how and when did the TE position become such a desired choice in the first round. When did that happen???

  66. Nole on Sat.-Bucc on Sun. Says:

    Jthv the stuff he says sometimes man.

  67. Fred E. Buc Says:

    The Bucs use a lot of two-TE sets, and if Myers goes, that leaves Brate and Cross for pass catching (unless they draft a TE). Stocker is useful mostly for the run game. Is Cross as good now as anyone who’d be left in the 4th or lower rounds. Probably. I think within reason, they need to take the best player on the board when they get to #19. If that’s a CB or S, great. If it’s a RB or TE, it’s a major consideration too.

  68. Blake_bucsfan Says:

    Yeah it would be incredibly short sided considering that the draft is incredibly deep at Rb. And when we have needs at saftey, corner, right tackle, De, and TE.

    And Nos, dont even get me started mister “tom brady has never done anything spectacular in the superbowl.”

  69. ndog Says:

    Blake you keep talking about Cook’s injuries but the facts say you’re wrong. He missed one game over the past 2 seasons and was only held to under 100 yards rushing a total of 7 times! So as far as those nagging injuries go, man I wish everyone played that well when there were hurt. Keep in mind I am not even sure I want us to draft a RB in round 1 but please be accurate with your criticism, and don’t just spew nothingness as fact.

  70. Blake_bucsfan Says:

    Ok bro multiple shoulder surgeries at the end of a shorter college season is most certainly serious. Not like Im making it up…

  71. jthv Says:


    The draft is deep at S, TE and DE too. Positions that none of which would be more valuable to the Bucs’ CURRENT roster from Day 1 than Dalvin Cook.

  72. jthv Says:

    Good thing RB’s don’t throw the ball.

  73. Nole on Sat.-Bucc on Sun. Says:

    Great rebuttal Jthv.

  74. Blake_bucsfan Says:

    ???? So running backs dont get hit in the shoulder?

    Running backs dont pass protect?

    Dalvins already got fumbling problems. A bad shoulder is only going to make those problems worse.

  75. BUC55 Says:

    I would love to get either Cook or Howard. Thrilled if either fell to 19.

    As for our te……there is no way we pass on Howard (unless it’s for cook). This argument the Joes are promoting that Brate is our proven #1 te and we should just roll with him going into 2017 as our #1 just because he had a career year in tds last year. Brate had a tremendous year last year for an uda. Let’s be real about Brate…..he can’t block at all. He’s an undersized one dimensional te. He’s almost always off the line of scrimmage. He’s demonstrated good hands and an ability to get open in the seams. I’m glad we have him. Nice player. A #1 te? No way.

    The reason why we will take Howard at 19 is because not only is he significantly better than Brate, he may be a future all pro te.

    The continued nonsense talk about Brate being a #1 te makes me laugh. Of course the talking heads at ESPN say we won’t take a te early because Brate led the league in tds last year. For those of us who watch every play of every game, we know better……except for the Joes.

  76. Jonzey Says:

    Blake we are in need of a starting running back like Cook
    1. RB Cook
    2. WR Curtis Samuel
    3. Safety Marcus Williams
    4. TE Lidgett
    5.DE. Jordan Willis
    6. Sp/RB TJ Logan
    7. ? lineman

  77. Joeypoppems Says:

    jthv Says:
    March 15th, 2017 at 10:34 am

    The draft is deep at S, TE and DE too. Positions that none of which would be more valuable to the Bucs’ CURRENT roster from Day 1 than Dalvin.


    That is a very valid point. One position that is a need that is a shallow draft class is OT. A RT early in this draft could be a wise idea. Then take advantage of the depth of the other positions.

  78. jthv Says:

    Cook played in 38 of 40 possible games at FSU. Yes, his shoulder “issues” are devastating.

    Tiki Barber learned how to not fumble.

    What’s next? His feet are too small?

  79. Jonzey Says:

    Cook is 6’0, 213 perfit size he ran a 4.4 at the combine, but he has football speed it is a big difference. He never was caught from behind. We need him

  80. Blake_bucsfan Says:

    Ok so you’re telling that a guy who needed surgery after a shorter college season is not ask risk of exacerbating those shoulder injurys in a longer more physical season?

  81. Blake_bucsfan Says:

    Jonzey that post is all kinds of Fubar’d.

    Cook is 5’10 210 and ran a 4’5

  82. Bucsfanman Says:

    @87- Slick Rick says, “Why? Because the shoes always hurt my gong
    6 minutes, 6 minutes, 6 minutes Doug E. Fresh and…………you’re on
    Ah ah on, ah ah on, ah ah ah ah ah ah ah on…….

  83. Jonzey Says:

    LaDainian Tomlinson 5’10, 221lbs
    Walter Payton 5’10, 200lbs

  84. ndog Says:

    Lost fumbles in the last 2 years of their college careers. AP-4, Elliot-3, Cook-5. And please keep in mind that Cook touched the ball way more than either one of these two as he is much better receiver. So considering he only has two lost fumbles more than the rookie of the year last year and almost league MVP and he touched the ball quite a bit more I would say fumbling isn’t really a problem like some people say it is. But again say whatever you want and it is true right? Look at the FACTS!

  85. Jonzey Says:

    I am looking at the internet Cook is 5’11, 213 and he ran at the combine a 4.47

  86. Blake_bucsfan Says:

    Look at his combine profile on and dont believe everything you see on the internet.

  87. Blake_bucsfan Says:

    One fumble ever 63.8 touches. Thats a fact ndog.

  88. Jonzey Says:

    Blake you are a hater did you ever play football, sounds to me that you was on the chess team

  89. Jonzey Says:

    Blake how many yard rushing and receiving and touchdowns he had

  90. Bucsfanman Says:

    @Blake- Maybe I missed it. If not Cook then who, in your opinion? I’m just curious. I don’t have a dog in the fight other than good football players for the Bucs. I’m in the “there are plenty of RBs if Cook or Fournette aren’t there at 19” camp.

  91. Jonzey Says:

    I would trade up with Cleveland if we have to

  92. Blake_bucsfan Says:

    Jonzey college stats dont mean a thing. Donnel Pumphrey is the all time leader in yards gained and he will be a day 3 pick. He had nearly 2k more yards rushing than dalvin in his career.

    And Bucsfanman, I want us to go Rb in the 3rd round or later. Right now my favorite guys for that round or Sameje “optimus” Perine, Marlon Mack truck, and Kareem the dream Hunt.

    For the 4th round and on I like Joe Williams, Tarik Cohen, and Jahad Thomas.

  93. DB55 Says:

    the shrill crowd that claim Gerald McCoy needs to be replaced because he helps opponents off the ground.
    Joe I think you should probably start paying us royalties at this point. #icecream

  94. Bucsfanman Says:

    Not bad Blake! Honestly, I just don’t think Cook will fall to us. I’m not anti-Cook, I’m just being realistic, at least in my own mind.
    When I saw Perine at the combine, I thought they had made a mistake and were running the linebackers! That dude’s a monster.

  95. Dubcity06 Says:

    OJ is better than brare, just like Mike Williams is better than Humphries.

    And yes Brate led league in TDs for TEs. Winston has always loved throwing to TEs. Brate was also the only quality guy besides ME13.

    If howard is in reach, ypu go ger him.

  96. LargoBuc Says:

    I would be thrilled with either Howard or Cook. Both of them are game changers. And I dont get why some are against Howard at 19, if he is the top play maker available then it would be foolish not to grab him. And in that case, there is no reason why you cant call some two tight end sets. They already do with Luke Stocket as the 2nd tight end, so why the hell couldn’t they do the same with Howard? Not to mention, Cam Brate is about to start getting some extra attention after last year so Howard will help keep things honest, esp in the redzone. It dosent make any sense to think that the Bucs cant make it work with two starting tight ends in todays passing league where ace personel is becomeing more and more common. Especially if Howard is still there at 19 and Cook, Fournette, Williams and Cook and the top defenders are gone. Passing on Howard in such a scenario would be foolish.
    As for Cook, I would be ecstatic to have him as our running back. We have never had a game changer of that caliber before. The closest thing was maybe Warrick Dunn or Caddy Williams. But Cook is at a different level.
    See you cant go wrong with either. Both are game changers and could instantly upgrade our young offense.

  97. LargoBuc Says:

    I wouldnt mind David Njoku either. The guy is hella fast for a tight end plus those guys at the U, well they arent ones to F with!

  98. Nole on Sat.-Bucc on Sun. Says:

    Njoku at least put up numbers in schools. I’m just wondering exactly how many targets do you folks feel about to be going to a rookie TE that will be sharing time with Cam. Not to mention those two elite WRs on the outside.

  99. Jonzey Says:

    Largo you know your football I agree

  100. Nole on Sat.-Bucc on Sun. Says:

    This offense is in dire need of a playmaker behind Fameis, not just some guy. That is that only element that is truly missing. Our window is opening the time is right now. Not tinkering trying to figure out how we are going to implement two or three different TEs.

  101. KangDooley Says:

    TE would be a straight up luxury pick in the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd rounds. Brate flashed all throughout 2015 spelling ASJ and ’16 he went off fully replacing that lush, so to me thats our guy minus the curve needed to adjust to NFL scheduling and game speed. Plus, the additon of DJack leads me to believe we’ll be seeing much more 3-wide sets from our offense with a walking mismatch like Evans, the aforementioned Jackpot, and Hump(who I Hope to see go beserk this upcoming season)working behind those two. At RB I’d like to see our little committee healthy this season, because Im of the mind we’ve got plenty talent it’s just injuries buried that entire group last season. CB imo is our biggest need not being talked about, Grimes is a year older, Verner is gone, and no knock on Hargraves skills or potential , but we aren’t quite as talented over the top or outside of the hashes as we are on tye front end of our defense.

  102. Nole on Sat.-Bucc on Sun. Says:

    We had ASJ and Cam on this roster. I don’t recall any two TE sets between those two last pre season or week one against the falcons. Save that noise about Koetter about to change his offense to suit some rookie TE when he’s had a up close and personal view of the chemistry Fameis has formed with Cam.

  103. jthv Says:

    This has been the most I’ve posted about the upcoming draft, mainly because I no longer find interesting to go back and forth about who a team should draft. I learned this lesson 2 years ago with Jameis with Internet GM’s and Scouts.

    The draft is 6 weeks away … The only TRUE thing known today about this draft is that NO Quarterback should be drafted in the 1st Round this year but teams will reach regardless.

  104. Nole on Sat.-Bucc on Sun. Says:

    Kang we’ll see more 3 wide a h3ll of a lot quicker than we’ll see some NE two TE set.

  105. Nole on Sat.-Bucc on Sun. Says:

    That’s the only reason y’all talk this two TE noise. Because NE did it years ago.

  106. Jonzey Says:

    Perine against Houston 31 yards rushing, Ohio St. 60yds, Auburn 86yds
    Cook against Old Miss 91yds 101 rec, Nth Carolina 140yds 106 rec, FL. 153yds, Clemson 169yds 4 tds, Miami 150yds 59 rec, Michigan 145yds 62 rec.
    These are based on good teams and the Champs, Cook is the man you can’t compare the two

  107. Joeypoppems Says:

    This is why I am against picking any TE early. If you look back at the offenses Koetter ran in Jacksonville and Atlanta, they were all centered around 3-wide or 4-wide receiver sets. He didn’t run too many 2 TE sets.

    So now I question the reason why we ran 2 TE sets as much as we did. Is that the offense he is trying to build? Or were the 2 TE sets due to lack of depth at the WR position? Idk the answer to those questions.

    If the 2 TE sets is going to be used as much as it was last season no matter what we do at the WR position then yes, OJ Howard would be the ideal pick imo. However, if adding Desean Jackson and potentially an early round WR pick leads to us running more 3 or 4-wide sets then adding a 2nd TE early doesn’t have the same appeal. Imo anyways

  108. Joeypoppems Says:


    I shouldn’t speak for Blake, but I don’t think he is saying Perine is better than Cook. I think he is saying Perine is talented enough to be a starter for us immediately and he can be had in the 3rd round. So if there are RBs that are capable starters for us in Round 3 then why take one Round 1?

  109. Blake_bucsfan Says:

    O.J. Howard had better numbers than Njoku. But they both have explosive traits that translate into the Nfl.

    Yet again NosBos talking like he knows something when he don’t.

  110. Blake_bucsfan Says:

    Nosbos, NE did it again this year. And the 2 years before that when they had Gronk and Scott Chandler (who was a startter in buffalo).

    And we ran a TON of 2 TE sets this year. Luke Stocker took more snaps than Cam Brate. And week 1 in atlanta we scored 2 of our Td’s out of a 2 TE set.

    But you keep on peddling them alternative facts bruh.

  111. Bucsfanman Says:

    And to add to that Jonzey, Perine split time with Mixon so that’s not the best comparison.

  112. Blake_bucsfan Says:

    And Jonzey, not that College stats matter at all, but Sameje Perine split carries with Joe Mixon at OU, and still broke AP/ Billy Sims record for rushing yards gained there.

    And he is the current owner of the Fbs single game rushing record. Dude got 427 yards in 1 game homie.

    And while Cook is certainly more athletically gifted than Perine, i’d say Sameje has a realistic shot at being a legit Bell Cow back, and could very well end up being a better pro than Cook. And we could get gin in the 3rd round.

    But that’s just like… My opinion, man.

  113. Blake_bucsfan Says:

    Also, why the F would you compare their numbers against different opponents?

  114. KangDooley Says:

    @NOLE Pats havent been heavy on the two-TE sets since Hernandez got locked up and Gronkasaur has been the walking wounded the past few seasons, I doubt they go back to that tact adding Cooks, to Edleman, Amendola and whomever else they pick up at reciever . Licht would do more justice adding another big-bodied WR to the fold than reaching for another TE, but thats just me and I’m kind of biased because I want an off the radar guy like Marcus Easley on THIS team lol. Dude is a baller and hes been buried on the sh*t show they call a roster in Buffalo since entering the league. Honestly though, this is the least stressful offseason as a Buc fan(since ’96) that i can ever remember, its like driving a junker for long time then upgrading to a new car and having that insecure feeling of “all i gotta do is put gas in it”? lol with hopping in and worrying about the wheels or anything else important falling off. It feels good, but still weird.

  115. StPeteBucsfan Says:

    I get the OJ love…he’s a stud…but I’m with Joe on selling Brate short. It’s not just his excellent hands…his superior intelligence…his ability to get open…and his established connection with the franchise #3….he still has upside left.

    Tim Wright was the scrawny TE for the Bucs. 6-4 220…Brate is or was 6-5 236..
    How do we know what Brate is right now? For all we know he comes to camp at 6-5 250! He’s had trouble gaining weight…he was still a kid…he’s not ready to fill out to his “man weight”. Maybe Licht/Koetter see enough upside to not consider TE a major “need”. Again how many positions can we upgrade in one year? We have plenty.

    Where do we currently suck? RT!!! Center!! And RB!!! Martin is or should be gone..he was a servicable RB when our OL was performing well. Muscle Turtle has decent size…5-9 223 but he’s not really a mauler…he’s not really fast…he is NOT the answer…even if he was eligible to play the first three games.

    Jaquizz Rodgers is 5-6 196..a decent change of pace RB who does run hard for his size but again he is NOT the answer.

    We need a freaking RB big time. If there are a ton of RB’s to be had in the 3rd or 4th round then trade down and load up on choices….if not….spent #19 on Dalvin…even if we have to toss in another later round…or McCaffery.

    Why not go for a game changer at our most critical need…which is not TE.

    If somebody here believes we should go OL or DE in the 1st…I hear ya…I’m not totally opposed…but I think we are an RB away from a killer offense…if our OL truly comes together…which it could although I concede the many question marks beginning with Sweezy’s health….and who plays center and RT.

    IF we built a Dallas Cowboys level OL then I can see Peyton Barber and Jacquizz and Sims…if not…give me Dalvin. I just suspect it would be easier to get Dalvin than to upgrade our OL to the level of Dallas which has multiple top ten picks…not just first rounders and not the 19th pick..Lael Collins would have been top ten if not for his connection to a shooting death of a pregnant woman.

    IE We would have a long way to go trying to draft OL that high! We are one pick away from drafting a stud RB!!!

  116. Pickgrin Says:

    Quite likely that the very best players at our positions of greatest “need” will be off the board when pick #19 comes.

    RB – Cook and Fournette will be gone
    WR – Williams and Davis will be gone
    Safety – Adams and Hooker will be gone
    DE – Garrett, Allen and Barnett will be gone.

    If any of those players is available when we pick – it should be a pretty easy decision. But odds are very high that all those players will be gone.

    OJ Howard will probably not be available at 19 either. I think Tennessee snags him at 18 if he even makes it that far. Howard looks to me like a generational talent at TE. If he were to be available at 19 – then I think Howard is also an easy decision to draft and be thankful for the opportunity.

    Assuming all those players are off the board – which is definitely the most likely scenario – we are potentially left to choose between the (alleged) 3rd best receiver Ross, the 3rd best RB McCaffrey, the 2nd best TE Njoku, the 1st or 2nd best Oline player (Ramczyk, Robinson, Lamp), the 3rd best Safety Peppers, the 4th or 5th best DE (Harris, Taco, McKinley) and the 3rd or 4th best CB (Conley, White, Jackson).

    I’m thinking of those most likely to be available that I listed above – that McCaffrey would be our best bet at getting a true impact player from day 1 at a position of need.

    Njoku is a very intriguing prospect to me as well and could easily qualify as “BPA” at 19 and be worthy of that pick. He’s young (20) and not as polished as Howard – at blocking especially – but a # of people are saying he actually has more potential and upside than OJ Howard as he gains experience.

  117. Joeypoppems Says:


    We dont need a Dallas level OL to be successful. Say they do transition Marpet to Center and slide Sweezy into the RG spot. Then we just need a RT.

  118. StPeteBucsfan Says:


    Nice analysis and a good way of looking at it. This leads me to patience if Licht trades down and gets some more picks. Hard task though because as you just pointed out there probably won’t be any players at 19 that teams are desperate to draft.

    The other option of course is to add a pick to sweeten the pot and move up…and that has some serious limitations as well.

    This draft will test Licht’s talent for sure…19 is a tweener pick.

  119. Stpetebucsfan Says:


    I agree completely which is why I want the RB in the first round. I think our OL has potential to be top ten if all those pieces you mentioned fall into place.

    Again though I have no problem with guys who want a monster DE…but I don’t feel as desperate about our rush as many here. I think Noah blows up this year.
    I think Smitty gets more out of LVD and Kwon blitzing and I think VHG is an excellent candidate to become our next Ronde Barber…same size and skill set and he’s not afraid to stick his nose in their to tackle.

  120. Joeypoppems Says:

    I was saying draft the RT round 1 and complete the O-Line lol.

  121. MadMax Says:


    Excellent work my friend!

    I still think TE Evan Engram would be a nice grab if we find someone to trade back with for our first pick (maybe NE, I hear they’re looking for a RB). Then pick up Zay Jones if he’s there with our 2nd….trade back into the 2nd for C Elflein…..Then RB Perine. I think this is possible.

  122. Pickgrin Says:

    St Pete – the only way I would be for us trading any picks to move up in the 1st round is if either Cook or Davis makes it to 17 and we could get our future star RB or WR by trading our 4th round pick to move up. Beyond that – it ain’t worth it. This is a stellar year for RBs, Safeties and TEs coming out and a pretty good year for WRs, DEs and CBs. We need to draft one of each of those strengths from this draft – and there are very good prospects to be had at all those positions well into the 4th round.

    For instance – RB Kareem Hunt and WR Josh Reynolds are both fantastic prospects who could be available to us in the 3rd round and one of them might even slip to the 4th.

    Budda Baker is one hell of a safety prospect with legit 1st rd talent in any other year – and he might last until as late as mid 2nd round.

    We have too many needs to be paying the high price of moving up in the 1st round for a supremely talented RB like Cook when you can likely just draft another great RB at 19 in McCaffrey who meets our needs perfectly (+ is a great returner!) and still have all our picks to work with in 2nd, 3rd and 4th rounds.

    Just as a reminder – Moving up entails trading #19 pick +:
    4th rd pick gets us to 17
    3rd rd pick gets us to 15
    2nd rd pick gets us to 12

  123. USFBUC Says:

    Okay, I have to chime in here.

    First, to the people saying we don’t need a TE you are not following the Bucs at all. They are talking to TEs, two of whom are going to likely go in the first round, another who is probably a second round pick. The Bucs will draft a TE and probably early.

    Second, to pass on a player that basically everyone is saying is the best prospect at his position in a long time is crazy talk unless you already have a solid, solid starter. For example, we would not draft a QB this year even if he was considered the best QB prospect in the past ten years because we have Winston.

    Third, people saying we should pass on Cook if he falls to us because of reason X, Y, or Z. The only way we pass on Cook is if we are choosing between some of the top players at their position, like Hooker, Adams, Garrett, Allen, Howard, and maybe Davis and Williams, who are also players at positions of extreme need for the team.

    With all that said, any of these players would be upgraded for the Bucs and it will come down to who is available and who the Bucs put more value on. Cook would be a great pick and the need at TE could be addressed later in the draft. Howard would be a great pick and RB could also be addressed later in the draft.

  124. Stpetebucsfan Says:


    I share your sentiments. I would not give up more than a 4th to add to our first to move up and as you’ve pointed out that only gets us a couple of spots.

    Sadly the same is true in reverse…hard to see us trading down to pick up much more than a 4th rounder. 19 is just a tough tweener spot to be drafting.


    I wouldn’t go crazy if they picked a stud RT at 19…but that means they’ve totally given up on Benenoch and I’m not sure that’s the case. I guess we’ll find out soon.

  125. Stpetebucsfan Says:


    Judging by your moniker I’m going to assume you’re a guy in the know about USF football. Whenever I watched last year ONE player ALWAYS jumped out to me.

    Quinton Flowers is just a bad arse baller. He gets er done. Marlon Mack was OK but I never really noticed him like I did Flowers.

    I wonder about Flowers…one more year left…is he an NFL QB or will he play another position. If he goes to WR I’d grab him in a heartbeat…he could be the next Hines Ward. Some guys just have “it”.

    What’s your take on Flowers?

  126. bucs_365 Says:

    They wanna run a lot of 2 TE sets, simple as that. And OJ Howard could line up wide and create mismatches… I don’t know why Joe’s panties get all wadded over the idea of drafting a supremely talented athletic weapon as a TE. This is no slam on Brate. Joe has a simpleton’s view of the draft.

  127. Joeypoppems Says:

    What is the point of trading up to pick #17? To leapfrog the Titans who already have 2 RBs? Lol

  128. USFBUC Says:

    StPete – Flowers is a tough call for his position in the pros. He is not yet an NFL QB, too inaccurate but that could change with another year of work. He is a playmaker though and could maybe find his way into the NFL as a WR or S. He was actually recruited by several larger schools (Alabama, Florida, Clemson, Texas, etc) to play S but chose USF because we let him play QB.

    Rodney Adams could be a decent later round pick at WR for you to look at from USF.

  129. MadMax Says:

    Dont forget about next year’s draft picks that can also be leveraged as trades…..Im pretty sure we’ll be in the mid 20’s in the first.

  130. Buccanegro Says:

    I can’t recall his name but there is a tight end that ran a faster 40 than OJ Howard and the tight end from UM. Why is no one talking about him? He could come into play @ 19 But in my opinion we are only a stud running back and/or left tackle from being an elite offense. Go Bucs.

  131. Buccanegro Says:

    Speaking of which, why not sign A.P. on the cheap to a one year prove it or else deal?