A Defensive Tackle Pass Rusher?
January 24th, 2017
Another Sparty product on the radar?
This should get Bucs fans’ juices flowing this chilly Tuesday morning. But you will have to wait until the final paragraph for the kicker.
Again, Joe isn’t much on mock drafts. Anyone can do one and it seems just about everyone does. To say these things are guesses, especially before the free agency dinner bell rings on March 9, is accurate.
Then, when you throw in Mel Kiper, Jr. into the mix, who changes his mock drafts likely more often than he changes socks, what’s the point? If accuracy is not the goal, then for Joe it is a total waste of time that could be better spent watching Foghorn Leghorn cartoons.
Kiper’s colleague, Todd McShay, did produce an interesting mock draft for two reasons — for who he thinks (today) the Bucs will pick and who the Bucs will just miss out on.
McShay believes the Bucs need a pass-rushing defensive tackle and Bucs AC/DC-loving general manager Jason Licht will turn his eyes to the Big Ten and grab Malik McDowell of Michigan State.
McDowell has supreme talent, and he can be a menace as an inside rusher when he’s locked in. But McDowell could fall a bit, because he’s not the consistent grinder that typically comes out of Michigan State. Tampa will be in the market for more pass-rushers.
Joe hopes you listen to the “Ira Kaufman Podcast” today as Joe and eye-RAH! discuss this very subject of the Bucs needing to beef up their pass rush (still).
Now here is the kicker Joe teased you with: Who does McShay have drafting immediately before the Bucs? He has the Packers selecting running back Dalvin Cook.
(Yes, Joe noticed for reasons unknown, McShay has the Bucs picking No. 21 when they are scheduled to pick at No. 19.)
January 24th, 2017 at 4:13 am
I agree that we need more pass rushers. I havent watched any tape in McDowell, but my initial reaction to this is that we need to get bigger up front. I would prefer a 300+ lb run stuffer than a 280 lb pass rusher next to GMC. Size is why I like Taco Charlton over Charles Harris
January 24th, 2017 at 4:33 am
And McShay’s mock draft as during the regular season still, which is why the order isnt right….
January 24th, 2017 at 5:08 am
Malik McDowell … 6’6″ & 276 lbs.
Will Gholston … 6’6″ & 281 lbs.
Tell me again why we should spend our precious #19 pick on an undersized DT.
January 24th, 2017 at 6:00 am
Defense rules. You are exactly right. Right on right on right on. Defense Rules is a smart dude. (No sarcasm)
January 24th, 2017 at 6:27 am
Well if youre comparing Gholston and McDowell then there are a few reasons to take him. There is no guarantee that Will Gholston will be back. And more importantly they have different skill sets. Gholston is stout against the run and invisible pass rushing whereas McDowell is a pass rusher and apparently a good one. Like I said I havent watched him yet so Im making that opinion based on scouting reports and “the experts”. I do agree that we should NOT draft an undersized DT, just saying Will Gholston isnt a good reasoning.
January 24th, 2017 at 7:32 am
I disagree with mcshay. We need pass rushers but we need a bohemeth at defensive tackle. Brandon Williams free agent from Baltimore is our guy. Why do you think their run defense was top rated. The giants have the same kind of guy but can t think of his name (McKinnon maybe?)). We got abused up the middle by oversized oline’s. We need some beef. Williams is 6 1 340 lbs and was considered top 10 free agent on NFL . Com . Guy is a man beast
January 24th, 2017 at 7:37 am
Well Joe if they did land Dalvin they’ll probably end up in next years Superbowl. I truly believe we’ll move up and relinquish our third the way Chicago did just last draft. I’m sorry if some chart says we should’ve received more then I guess Mr. Licht got shafted.
January 24th, 2017 at 7:37 am
320 lb. run stuffer to free up MacC. and MacD to rotate and pass rush.
January 24th, 2017 at 7:41 am
Aaron Donald 6’1 285, thats some compact muscle that can get underneath and push. Barnett is 6’3 265 with room to get around 280. If you want pass rush who can also play tackle, there he is. And yes we’ll have to move up for him. And if he drops below the 10th, Im gonna be losing my mind for us to make that jump.
January 24th, 2017 at 7:46 am
NosBos moving up seven picks is plain stupid. No way hes gonna get to us at 19. Giving up our farm for someone who is not our biggest need doesn’t make sense.
January 24th, 2017 at 7:48 am
Bob…how about Brandon Williams, FA with the Ravens. Big run stuffing DT? Reminds me of snacks from NYG.
January 24th, 2017 at 8:17 am
Tarzan giving up a third is hardly giving the farm. Lets take a look at our third round picks over the last few years and there impact. You telling me the best RB entering the draft wouldn’t be worth a third. Please. Here’s what I’m gonna do Joe next time I’m in Lakeland at the sport “Mojos” a local everyone in the building is pro draft Dalvin. I’m going show them how to sign up on JBF. If y’all think little ol NOSBOS is annoying with daily talks of drafting Dalvin wait til I have 20 or 30 more daily posters saying the same thing. We gone flood all this none since about other players totally out. “Just wait on it”.
January 24th, 2017 at 8:21 am
Tarzan if Rodgers had Dalvin this year the Pack would be in the Superbowl not Atlanta. Some DT or DE is not a bigger need for this team dude. Fameis desprately needs the threat of a potent run game not just some guy found in the later rounds dude. No one here going to convince me that a #2 WR or TE would be of greater need to our offense considering we don’t have a feature back as it currently stands.
January 24th, 2017 at 8:23 am
I’ll say it again the partner is Arizona. A team Jason Licht has strong ties to dude. One 3rd not the farm.
January 24th, 2017 at 8:37 am
@Nosbos
Trading is nit going to be that easy. What happens if Arizona likes a guy at 13 that they think wont be there at 19? Then you have to sweeten the trade to make it worth it to them. Trading isnt as easy as Licht saying “Hey youre my friend, help me out” like you think it is.
And as far as the Chicago trade last year goes, Licht may have had an idea that Chicago wasnt targeting Hargreaves and the Giants wouldnt take him so why not take the extra 4th round pick and still get your guy? Now before you ask me stupid questions like “have you ever been in a war room???” Or “how do you know what Licht is thinking???” I havent and I dont know what he is thinking.
And I clearly said multiple times now that the value chart was for fun so I dont understand why u keep brining it up in your arguments
January 24th, 2017 at 8:40 am
Joeypoppems … Only comparing McDowell & Gholston in terms of physical size (could have thrown Ayers into the same conversation). Point is that McDowell is an undersized DT and would cost us our 1st pick in the draft. I agree with several other posters who’ve said that we need to get bigger in the middle, not smaller. You mentioned Aaron Donald … you didn’t mention that he plays next to DTs Michael Brockers (6’5″ & 322 lbs) and Cam Thomas (6’3″ & 330 lbs) … just sayin’. And as far as Gholston staying with the Bucs goes, that’s up to Licht not us (my preference is PAY THE MAN and be thankful he can play outside & inside).
NosBos … By now every JBF reader knows you want us to draft Dalvin Cook and that you’re willing to sell the farm to get him. Just on a recommendation … park the train at the station and hop on another train.
January 24th, 2017 at 9:00 am
@Defense Rules
Believe me I dont want another undersized DT either. I was just saying they are different players and maybe McDowell would be an upgrade over Gholston based on his pass rushing upside. But I would much rather see DT addressed in FA where guys like Brandon Williams, Johnathan Hankins, and D. Poe are available. I would like an edge rusher round 1 tho
January 24th, 2017 at 9:26 am
Joeypoppems … We’re both saying pretty much the same thing it sounds like. I’d love another edge rusher with our 1st or 2nd pick this yr, but that depends on what Bucs can accomplish in free agency (we have quite a few #1 needs like WR, Safety & probably RB … wouldn’t even mind a C or T if the right one falls to us at #19). Everyone seems to want another DE speed rusher (like Noah), but if Jack Smith can stay healthy (ya, right) we’ve already got that. I get much more concerned about us stopping the run, both up the middle and to the outsides (which is where Will Gholston excels IMHO … PAY THE MAN Jason). The names you mentioned (DTs) are all beasts and I’d be thrilled to have any of them on the team. Although he’s older, would love to see Calais Campbell in a Bucs uniform too. And oh ya, Kawann Short.
January 24th, 2017 at 9:35 am
At least someone else is noticing we don’t have a DT that can rush the passer on this team. So I wonder why we are spending so much on one? Questions to ponder…
January 24th, 2017 at 9:44 am
@Defense Rules
Yea, cant really count on Smith to nit only stay healthy, but with the ACL injury there is a chance he may not be the same player.
Honestly, as of right now I’m loving Taco Charlton. I love his size (same size as Gholston), his length, and his upside. The fact that he had all the success he has while having some major flaws in his game (IE: how slow he is off the ball) If he can fix those flaws, and with the great DL coach we have I dont see why he couldnt, He will be a frice for years. Then add Noah Spence on the other side and GMC and someone better than Clint McDonald we will have a super scary 4 man rush
January 24th, 2017 at 9:55 am
@ndog
I can understand not liking GMC as a leader. I dont get how you can question his ability tho. He was top 5 of DTs in sacks while being double teamed for a majority of his snaps. If he gets help inside next to him, Im sure his numbers will improve
January 24th, 2017 at 10:00 am
Nope never been a war room bro. I just see a major need on this roster and find it peculiar others don’t see it that way. Rodgers was historically great this year didn’t mean much in the tournament because that offense was lacking a RB. Something tells me Ted Thompson won’t just wait until th later rounds to address that teams clear and present need. As far as Arizona gose I have no idea what they’re eyeing in the first round early mocks say some corner, what I do is if I do you a solid one year I expect one in return somewhere down the road bro.
January 24th, 2017 at 10:05 am
Pop yall always mention those none gamechanging sacks of his. Do me a favor up load a video of him giving us 1 sack 1 tackle for a loss(on a RB) and or 1 forced fumble. Then I’ll be impress bro. To h3ll wit sacks if you dont force the ball out. QB gets up off the ground and air our @$$ out on the very next play. I like pressures better than sacks they force a QB to hurry his decision making. The only none stripsack worth anything are the ones that occur on third downs that force teams to punt.
January 24th, 2017 at 10:10 am
NosBos We get it you want Mr. Cook, if he is there at 19 YES! if not what can we do. Mortgage our future on a RB? In this draft with lots of good RB? I get that you are a FGU fan. Georgia fan here. Your keep on and on and on with how special “you know” Mr. Cook will be. Can you do me a favor with your future predictions abilities. Can you hook a guy up with the WINNING powerball numbers? If not then please let go of your future predictions for future NFL (Not For Long) players, how about letting them play in the league a season or two before anointing them with your knowledge about what they will be in the NFL.
Thanks
January 24th, 2017 at 10:12 am
Hopefully its this year – but at some point Jac Smith is going to stay healthy all year and bust out with like 13 sacks.
I just hope Jason Licht has him locked up for an additional year or two contractually when it happens.
January 24th, 2017 at 10:14 am
@Nosbos
What on Earth are you talking about? Lol if RB was such a problem for the Packers they wouldnt have won 8 straight putting up 35 a game. And I dont see how a running game helps when you are down 31 points in the 3rd quarter like the Packers were against the Falcons….. And we all see the need for a RB you are definitely not the only one. The diference between you and others is that you refuse to accept the fact that Dalvin Cook is NOT the only answer. And I have no idea why
January 24th, 2017 at 10:15 am
Come on Rhino at least not use my same material when you get at me bro.
January 24th, 2017 at 10:17 am
Pop you better than that bro. That regular season stat mess don’t mean much come playoff time when Dqtrs are gameplanning to stop your strengths and you know it bro.
January 24th, 2017 at 10:18 am
They were one demensional all season and it caught up to them come January.
January 24th, 2017 at 10:18 am
At the end of the day, Rodgers lost cause he had no defence. Period. If we can’t stop teams then it don’t matter if we have cook or elliot. We need our trenches to be upgraded before any other position
January 24th, 2017 at 10:20 am
@Nosbos
Im not even going to respond to that GMC argument. Saying sacks only matter if a fumble is forced or on 3rd down tells me that u know absolutely nothing about football.
January 24th, 2017 at 10:22 am
@Nosbos
The Packers defense caught up with them, not their running game because, again, you dont run the ball when you are down 31 points…..
January 24th, 2017 at 10:22 am
What I find funny is y’all all over the place with y’all first round choices. I’m merely sticking to one name and it bothers you mutaf@$!s. Thanks for informing me on how to go about getting under your skin. Now when Joe says NOSBOS cut it out I’m gone from this site until then scroll yo @$$ pass.
January 24th, 2017 at 10:22 am
@Nosbos
Thats how teams gameplan in the regular season too genius….
January 24th, 2017 at 10:25 am
In still waiting in you to up load that video. I dare you to find one. All I ask for was 1 sack 1 tackle for a loss(ON aRB) and forc fumble in the same game. Shouldn’t be too much to ask for a dominant DT right.
January 24th, 2017 at 10:26 am
Genius now that’s a first.. But h3ll I’ll take it.😊thanks bro.
January 24th, 2017 at 10:29 am
Anytime. I give compliments, curse words with symbols in them arent in my vocabulary.
And about the GMC thing. All I said was that if he gets help next to him his numbers will improve. Which makes sense. So idk where youre coming from with all these specific things you want me to “look up”
January 24th, 2017 at 10:38 am
I respect your choice of vocab respect my s@$!.
January 24th, 2017 at 10:40 am
Man yall need to stop making excuses for that dude I lesser known DT do those vety things every weekend. But see them him.Im not big on meaningless sacks. I wanna see tackles for loss bro.
January 24th, 2017 at 10:42 am
I wanna see him flash in the backfield more I careless about those sacks totals bro.
January 24th, 2017 at 10:50 am
2016 NFL draft we needed a pass-rushing, run stopping DT. We had Javon Hargrave on our radar. We traded a 3rd and 4th for a PK, so Pittsburgh pick Hargrave in the 3rd.
January 24th, 2017 at 10:53 am
Thats what Im saying. If he had someone next to him that can consitently beat a guard 1 on 1 he wont be getting double teamed as much which gives him more of a chance to get in the backfield. Saying a guy sucks because he isnt always winning 2 on 1 situations makes no sense. Saying his numbers will get better doesnt just mean sacks
January 24th, 2017 at 10:59 am
The only reason I brought up the sack totals was because I was responding to a comment about his pass rush abilities. Then you came in talking about TFLs on RBs and demanding videos
January 24th, 2017 at 11:07 am
Check the archives you’ll never see me saying he sucks. What’s frustrating is when he wants to be can be in backfield virtually every play. His take off is the best in the league. I just wish we would see it more is all I’m saying.
January 24th, 2017 at 11:08 am
And Pop I’m sorry bro he dose not always drae double teams man.
January 24th, 2017 at 11:14 am
This doesn’t excite me at all!
Sacks just do not come from the DT position. They come from the outside!
There are several here who gripped because we passed DT Rankins to take VHG.
This was a need based pick because our defensive backfield after Lovie was in total shambles.
But what did we give up….4 sacks? LVD had 5…Gholston 3.5..McDonald
GMC has averaged over 8 for the last four years but only 7 last year.
This is not to slam Rankins he’s a good DT…it’s to point out that the rush needs to come from outside…we need another Noah Spence!!! So Noah..in his rookie year gets 5.5 sacks with only ONE arm. What will this kid do if he gets healthy?
Ayers had 6.5 despite missing several game due to injury.
Our DL is not that far off…just one more Noah Spence and we’re there.
The top twenty sackers in the NFL were all DE’s or LB’s. You have to drop all the way down to 19st before you get to Geno Atkins.
I just do not see how we significantly improve our pass rush counting on a rookie DT. Even one of Rankins ability. And besides I know this riles up some here….but we already have the 4th leading DT when it comes to sacks.
We haven’t had a true edge rusher since Simeon…unless you want to count Bennett. I think Noah corrects that this year. I think Ayers will help…but if we’re going DL I want a DE not a DT.
January 24th, 2017 at 11:16 am
The reason I brought up tackles for loss and force fumbles is my fear is he has become content with the praise he receives from his yearly sack totals. We both know we need more from our D linemen to compete in this division. A division that arguably is becoming the best in the league.
January 24th, 2017 at 11:18 am
I agree St.Pete.
January 24th, 2017 at 11:28 am
So let me add this if we are going to exclude a weapon in the first I much rather see the baddest DE we can find in contrast to a #2WR or TE. Those are dime a dozen, there are more than just Corey Davis,Mike Williams,John Ross working they’re tails off to get in this league man.
January 24th, 2017 at 11:28 am
@Stpete
I agree. Another reason Im hoping they get another stud DE early in this draft (round 1) Is because while we have Ayers under contract the rookie (Im hoping its Taco Charlton) wont have to step in and immediately be asked to be a 3 down player. Let him play in passing situations mostly like Noah Spence did last season and let them develop their skill sets and also maybe pick up on Ayers attitude and work ethic which is an even bigger bonus. Then 2019 comes along and boom. We have 2 beasts coming off the edge wrecking QBs for years to come. Building through the draft is the goal and this is how to do it
January 24th, 2017 at 11:30 am
I’m hard on the Dalvin train obviously because I don’t see a feature back on roster as it stands 1/24/2017. I have a #1 WR I have a #1 TE.
January 24th, 2017 at 11:39 am
I would agree with that Nosbos
January 24th, 2017 at 12:01 pm
Whoever says “sacks don’t come from DT’s” doesn’t understand team football.
DT’s may not get a sack, but they sure as hell get DE’s freed up enough for them to get the stat.
Two guys in the middle drawing doubles frees up DE’s to do their work.
Most great defenses are strong up the middle: DT, MLB and SS. The Bucs are missing one DT.
I’d be totally fine with drafting a serious DT to go with McCoy in the first round. And Malik McDowell could be such a guy…
January 24th, 2017 at 12:05 pm
Jbf ion understand why we stuff like “whoever say this don’t understand football”. We all see different things that we feel our beloved team should be doing. Its just different perpective is all it is. 99% of the pist I read everyday seems to me someone that knows a little or a lot about the game man.
January 24th, 2017 at 1:01 pm
SPBF says:
“just one more Noah Spence and we’re there”
Then we’re already there because Jac Smith is very much like Noah Spence…
January 24th, 2017 at 1:23 pm
Pop you there??? I wanna get yo opinion on something..
January 24th, 2017 at 1:29 pm
@Pickgrin
Can’t really count on him to stay healthy and after the ACL who knows if he can be the same player
@Nosbos
What would you like?
January 24th, 2017 at 1:35 pm
StPete … I thought that our DLine played much better in 2016 than in 2015, except for one thing: we slid considerably when it comes to stopping the run (ranked 11th in 2015 vs 22nd in 2016). Gave up more yds on fewer running downs … not good. One more (light) DE isn’t going to fix that. Need to get more robust in the interior plus add some muscle outside for obvious running downs.
Cobraboy … “Most great defenses are strong up the middle: DT, MLB and SS. The Bucs are missing one DT.” Agree with your 1st statement 100%. Not so much with the 2nd one. Bucs need to beef up all 3 positions.
January 24th, 2017 at 1:43 pm
@Defense Rules
I’m telling you man, Taco Charlton could be a great fit. 6′ 6″ 280 lbs. Has speed off the edge and the size and length to succeed in run defense. He is solid in run defense already. Just needs a little more discipline
January 24th, 2017 at 1:58 pm
Sheldon Rankins had 4 sacks in 9 games, he missed the first 7 games with a broken fibula.
January 24th, 2017 at 2:47 pm
Anyone think the Dixie Chicks regret trading up for Julio Jones right about now?
January 24th, 2017 at 2:48 pm
Major difference:
Noah Spence plays hurt.
Jacquies Smith cannot and is undependable.
January 24th, 2017 at 2:52 pm
Pop. Speaking hypothetically people don’t get your pantys in a jumble. I noticed the Bills gave a 1st and a meaningless 4th in 2014 to move up five spots to get Sammy Watkins. The picks were in the following draft or 2015 not 2014. Would you be opposed to a deal like that us giving up a 1st round 2018 to swap with anyone in the top 12 of this years draft??? Now before you say h3ll no consider aquiring a talent like the guy I want likely puts us in the playoffs therefore making that first rounder a late first pick none the less. Your thoughts???
January 24th, 2017 at 2:53 pm
Please no Joe. I rather go this alone. I don’t need them being angry 29th you to. Please dont ask that Joe.
January 24th, 2017 at 2:54 pm
– I swype when I post. I meant with
January 24th, 2017 at 3:04 pm
@Joe
Trading up for Julio Jones was smart. Look at the rest of the receivers in the 2011 draft. Other than Randall Cobb and maybe Torrey Smith for a season or 2, none of them were successful.
January 24th, 2017 at 3:09 pm
@Nosbos
Future picks are hard to judge. I would also like to think that we will be in the playoffs next season. So maybe if we are crazy active in FA and land a lot of guys that can fill needs then sure, but as of right now I dont think we are just 1 RB, as good as Cook is, away from being a contender. Look at the Vikings. They thought they were just a QB away and traded their #1 pick to the Eagles who now pick in the top 15.
January 24th, 2017 at 3:16 pm
And in that Julio Jones comment I made, I meant the receivers that went after Julio. I know AJ Green has obviously had success lol
January 24th, 2017 at 4:52 pm
That’s where we differ Pop. I feel we showed enough on the defensive side once they became familiar the scheme. Had we gotten anything from our rush attack I think we get in. Not sure we wouldve made it out the first round but definitely have gotten in. Detroit had no business in the playoff. See to me Koetter’s playaction style offense requires a a legitimate threat in the backfield. But that’s just me bro.
January 24th, 2017 at 5:38 pm
@Nosbos
I completely agree that we do need a feature back for this offense to reach its full potential. The bigger thing we differ on is that you seem to think Dalvin Cook is the only option in the draft. And he definitely could and will be a feature back for some team. I see 5 other guys capable of being a feature back that can be drafted on Day 2. Either way we want the same goal.
January 24th, 2017 at 6:25 pm
I don’t think he’s the only option. I do feel the greater the home run threat in the backfield the easier it makes the entire system run. We will get a number 2WR. But we wont pitching the ball around the way they do in Atl and GB bro.
January 24th, 2017 at 8:33 pm
Joe Says:
January 24th, 2017 at 2:48 pm
Then we’re already there because Jac Smith is very much like Noah Spence…
Major difference:
Noah Spence plays hurt.
Jacquies Smith cannot and is undependable.
—————————————————————
Painting with a pretty broad brush there aren’t you Joe?
No one can predict when or if an NFL player will get injured – nor whether a player will be able to “play through” an injury depending on what the injury is and the severity. Noah Spence playing through a badly messed up shoulder was impressive – but who’s to say Jac Smith wouldn’t have played through it in a similar situation.
If Spence had suffered a torn ACL like Smith did – do you think he would have been able to shake it off and play out the season???
Although some players do seem “injury prone” – that is often times just a matter of bad luck when it happens a couple years in a row. Most thought Stocker would never amount to anything because he was always hurt his 1st 3 years in the league – now he is our best non-Oline blocker and a valuable role player for the Buccaneers.
Jac Smith IMO is the DL player most likely to get double digit sacks next year if he is able to play all 16 games in 2017.
Granted, I said that last offseason but I guarantee you Jacquies is hungry and very capable of performing at a high level if he can stay on the field.
We have Howard Jones as well who also flashed some similar abilities as Spence and Smith in his 1st year. The Bucs cupboard of pass rushers is not nearly as bare as some claim…
January 25th, 2017 at 4:23 am
You need offense. Offense wins championships. Defense does not in any way rule in the NFL. And of course you need pass rushers, you always do, but get them later in the draft.