Beggars Can’t Be Choosers

March 10th, 2016

The inability of the Bucs to land a proven edge rusher is becoming an NFL crime and a massive financial blunder.

So Joe has noticed the Bucs dancing the dance with free agent defensive end Robert Ayers. Sadly, it is a necessary evil.

Why? Because the Bucs have embarrassed the NFL and insulted fans for failing to develop and/or acquire a defensive end who can breathe on a quarterback for the past decade, or for letting productive players in their prime walk away for no good reason. That’s why the Bucs must shop the bargain bin with soon-to-expire date tags.

Enter Ayers.

Think about it: The Giants, his former team, thought so much of Ayers, they instead decided to keep a defensive end with half a hand than reinvest in Ayers.

Only three times has Ayers had more than four sacks in a season, his last three. Only once has Ayers had six sacks or more (2015). Frankly, he’s an expensive Will Gholston.

But this is what the Bucs have to deal with. No, you cannot blame Jason Licht for not bagging Charles Johnson, who reportedly turned down double what he accepted to return to Carolina.

For too long, the Bucs have stuck with their own draft busts at defensive end or invested in two- or three-sack guys hoping the tooth fairy would magically turn them into double-digit sack guys. Shockingly, that never happened.

It’s time to quit farting around and pony up for talent, which cannot be found in the bargain bin. Problem is, the impressive defensive ends have all signed elsewhere. So the Bucs are left with Ayers-like talent, which just screams “Ghost Johnson.” Funny how Ayers’ best season came in a contract year.

Beggars cannot be choosers. And the Bucs are very much panhandling for an edge rush. Five sacks is better than four,  and it’s certainly better than none (sackless George Johnson) but won’t get the job done.

Yes, Joe is confident the Bucs will draft a defensive end next month. But this is starting to turn into the reverse of the St. Louis Rams (no, not the Los Angeles Rams).

The St. Louis Rams drafted Sam Bradford who, in his rookie year, looked to be the real deal at quarterback, selected first overall and given a weighty contract. In perhaps the biggest NFL crime this century, the Rams never gave Bradford any weapons.

He had an aging Steven Jackson and that was it. You invest all that money in Bradford and don’t get him any help? Then wonder why he struggled?

The flip side is becoming true for the Bucs. How many f’ing times have we heard Gerald McCoy needs help from the edge to reach his true potential? Then get him help!

We’ve heard this song and dance about how GMC needs an edge rush to complement his talents since he was drafted in 2010. This just in folks: GMC is 28. By the time a rookie defensive end (hopefully) develops, GMC will be 30 and maybe on the downside of his career.

So the Bucs, who inked GMC two years ago to a fat contract, are pulling a Rams/Bradford on him by not getting him any reliable help. This is just shameful and, frankly, not smart financially.

If the team wants a maximum return on its investment with GMC, then this monkeying around about obtaining a reliable defensive end must end. Either that, or stop whining that GMC needs an edge rush to reach his full potential.

And quit hoping three-sack guys turn into Simeon Rice.

140 Responses to “Beggars Can’t Be Choosers”

  1. LUVMYBUCS Says:

    Greg Hardy 🙂

  2. tmaxcon Says:

    Great Read Joe… Very accurate… I am sure the blind will find fault in your legit points about how bad the bucs have been handling personnel for the last decade. Too many talented players have walked and too many scrubs have been given too much time or second chances. There are only two ways for the bucs to start attracting top flight players and making it a desirable destination and that is to WIN or Overpay… Weather, No state taxes and all the other BS some of the eternal optimists like to bring up mean nothing to a young rich star athlete…

  3. tmaxcon Says:


    I agree totally but you will get crucified by the character police and hypocrites…

  4. Jeffbuc Says:

    Greg Hardy

  5. LifeOfABucFan Says:

    Protect your franchise QB…Period..Maybe that’s why they are so reluctant to part ways with Glennon..

    Didn’t the Vikings say the same thing yesterday somewhere ? Protecting Teddy is their priority? Didn’t the Bucs get the memo???

  6. LUVMYBUCS Says:

    Greg Hardy | William Gholston
    Gerald McCoy | Clinton McDonald
    Terrance Knighton | Akeem Spence
    Jacquies Smith | Noah Spence | Howard Jones

  7. Mike Says:

    Hate to break it to everyone, but the teams that have good pass rushers drafted them. None of the free agent pass rushers were big names. The big names are still with the teams that drafted them. $85 mill for Vernon, maybe 1% of you knew who he was before free agency. Throw big $ at DE’s over 30? The answer is in the draft……

  8. LifeOfABucFan Says:


    I like that list!!!

    As a woman myself, I have no problem getting Hardy here at this point…Just give him an incentive laced contract where he has to stay completely quiet in the locker room..

  9. tmaxcon Says:


    Greg Hardy | William Gholston
    Gerald McCoy | Clinton McDonald
    Terrance Knighton | Akeem Spence
    Jacquies Smith | Noah Spence | Howard Jones

    I like it but I’d rather see Spence beat out Jaq Smith and for bucs to use Smith more situational he gets man handled in the run game..

  10. Jeagan1999 Says:


    At this point…with the impact DE’s already snapped up in free agency….we need to commit to take 2 DE’s in the Draft! If we could somehow get our hands on Joey Bosa in Round 1…and then amange to snag a guy like Sence, Lawson or even Billings early in round 2…that would help out a LOT!!!

    Now Licht needs to get his a** in gear and start filling the other needs this team has…WR3, RT, OLB, Safety and Corner…while there are still a few decent players available!

  11. Cannuckbuc Says:

    Why not Greg Hardy?

  12. LUVMYBUCS Says:


    Lol – I know brotha – But like I said a couple days ago…

    I’ve sold my Buccaneer Soul – to the pass rush this season
    By Hook or Crook – By any means necessary – destroy the opponents backfield

  13. Supersam Says:

    85 million on Vernon wouldn’t have been the answer. I say we double up in the draft this year. Bosa/Ogbah.

  14. LUVMYBUCS Says:


    That’s big coming from you#respect

  15. tmaxcon Says:


    be careful… you will get your girl card pulled by some of the character police for mentioning hardy in any way shape or form remember his victim was the next coming of mother Theresa according to some….

    i saw that you posted that you have never had alcohol that’s very impressive being a bucs fan almost impossible in my opinion.

  16. tdtb2015 Says:

    Maybe the free agent DEs don’t want to come here. They are just using Tampa for leverage in negotiations with other teams… Just a thought…

  17. LUVMYBUCS Says:


    I hear U. I would still give the veteran action, at the starter position.
    Then if he loses his position – its fair and square.

  18. LUVMYBUCS Says:


    No Alcohol? Damn

    Very Impressive

  19. Espo Says:

    The thing though… Is Greg Hardy even that good anymore? He didn’t play very well last year. You could argue he’s better than anyone on our roster, but is he better than Ayers and whoever is on our draft board? If he’s the Greg Hardy of old, I’d be more inclined to go for it.

  20. Joe Says:

    Why not Greg Hardy?

    Maybe Google can help you if you don’t know. smh

  21. tmaxcon Says:


    it’s tough to be a bucs fan without a bottle and a spare remote… I was blown away when i read that first… LOL… I have enjoyed her posts… she gets it

    rules are simple

    1. Protect Winston
    2. Give Winston Weapons
    3. See RULE 1

  22. Dave Says:

    I agree joe but … Who???
    Johnson wasn’t going anywhere but home.
    Mario seemed to want nothing but Miami.
    And the Miami dude who signed with NYG …. He seemed like he wanted out of Florida and the NY spotlight. Seems like a bust to me, and it is all based on his potential.

    Don’t get me wrong, I would have taken any of them, I just don’t think they had a shot at any of them. It’s not always the teams fault.

    And no… I would not sign Greg hardy.
    Put Ayers in the rotation with Jack smith and draft 1-2 DEs.

    Personally, I really thought they’d go after Mario, but that didn’t happen and it appears now that he wanted Miami all along anyway.

  23. LUVMYBUCS Says:


    That was after a year off. When he’s in game shape – the dude is a monster.

  24. LifeOfABucFan Says:

    @Luv ..nope..never in my life..but I do like my Happy Pills..gets me through the day having a 20 year old ( went to school with Hargreaves) and a 22 year old ( born same day as Jameis, his name is James)

    @Tmax..Oh yeah I know..I got slack on Hardy at another board already..

    Beggers can’t be choosey at this point!..Bucs missed out on the big guns!

  25. StPeteBucsFan Says:


    I agree totally but you will get crucified by the character police and hypocrites…

    Have you beaten women and thrown them down onto a bed full of loaded weapons? If you have and you’re one of those who comes here to criticize Hardy then indeed you would be a hypocrite.. You do understand the meaning of the word right?

    We are not talking about a “single” instance of extreme wife battering…something like say Ray Rice did…we”re talking about an out and out thug who frightened his own teammates because he’s so mentally whack!!!

    Now if there are wife beaters here who pack heat and threaten women with that heat and you criticize Hardy then indeed you are a hypocrite.

    The rest of us I guess are simply “character police”. As are all of you!!! Again would you take the head if ISIS if he could deliver 15-20 sacks a year for a few million for his terrorist group. If you would not then you too are part of a a ‘character” police.

    What’s really sad about all this love for a sociopath is that he’s not even freaking produced giant numbers on the field with the exception of two years!!!

    Last year for the ‘Boy’s” he got ONE LESS sack than Jack Smith…6 to Smith’s 7!!! The year before of course he got 5 and 1/2 fewer sacks than Smith!!! That’s right…1 to 6.5!!! It was TOTALLY Hardy’s fault that he was not on the field!!!

    And so that brings us to his two year stretch 2012-2013 where he notched first 11 and then 15 sacks! That’s freaking it. He had 4 and 3 sacks his first two years…and just six last year.

    Why would anyone want to cheer for a clearly deranged psychopath? Seriously you can joke about character police but unless you’re ready to start the head of ISIS then you too have charachter issues. Perhaps beating women, threatening them with loaded weapons…being a horrible teammate..starting fights…NONE of that matters?

  26. bryan Says:

    But GMC is so good according to so many. If he has the respect of his peers why are people not lining up to play next to him?

  27. tmaxcon Says:


    Come on cocaine, strippers and guns after midnight never ends well. He was wrong but does not deserve a death sentence….

  28. LUVMYBUCS Says:


    Its so rare now days.

    I’m like – c’mon I know your taking muscle relaxers or something.
    Big Ups to “LifeOfABucFan” though.

  29. Joe Says:


    Let’s not forget that if the Bucs did sign Hardy, there are corporate sponsors (just for fun, say for example, Publix, among others) that drop seven-figures a year on the Bucs who will want nothing to do with the team if it signs Hardy.

    That gets the attention of owners really quick.

  30. DefenseRules Says:

    For everyone wanting the Bucs to grab Greg Hardy, take a good look at his performance last year with the Cowboys (who went 4-12 by the way). Hardy played in 12 games, had 6 sacks, 23 tackles and 12 assists. Jack Smith played in the same # of games and had 7 sacks. Howard Jones played in the same # of games and had 5 sacks. Hardy is not the answer on defense.

    The sky really hasn’t fallen … yet. Wil Gholston improved considerably last year, and plays the run very well. Jack Smith has decent potential, albeit as a situational DE. A very good draft (picking up 2 DE or 1 DE and a stud DT) will go a long way towards fixing our DE issue. If the draft is as strong in DEs and DTs as folks say, some teams will have to release some very serviceable DEs before the season starts. Plus we always have the possibility of a trade. Just wish we didn’t have so many danged holes on defense.

  31. Joe Says:


    We live in a different age now. Doing what Hardy did and show no remorse, and continue to pop off about it, he’s basically unemployable unless he was getting double-digit sacks, which he is not. If Jerry Jones doesn’t want you, that should say it all.

    Remember: the NFL is a business and running off corporate sponsors is not a smart business move when it is easily avoidable.

  32. tmaxcon Says:


    Of course I have not beaten woman nor do I condone it you are out of line suggesting otherwise. The rest of your take is just opinion which you are entitled to. If i did not know better I’d think you were some crazed right wing religious zealot… people deserve second chances and forgiveness. The bucs could use some passion on the weak dline…

  33. Warren Says:

    Great article…spot on Joe

  34. TNOLES Says:

    Sign Hardy, sign Ayers, get a big run stuffing DT and draft some guys to be the future. Lets win now while building for the future.

  35. BucFan20 Says:

    @ Dave
    Remember this is also from the give them what ever they want crowd.
    And no many just do not want to be here or are just money chasers. Look at all the cry babies that did not want another Johnson then pissed because we did not sign him. Later were ok with it because they found out HE decided to stay in Carolina on his own.

    Licht and the new staff will do it their way. And if it is through the draft, so be it.

  36. tmaxcon Says:


    you are correct with your response no doubt. Let me add this we all know that the attention span of the american public is about the size of a fleas arse…. if he goes to a winner and stays out of trouble all will be forgotten. again we are talking a bout a victim who was a gold digging stripper not mother theresa

    How many people remember all the Marv albert non sense and he made back on network tv.

  37. Espo Says:


    That would explain a slow start, but he shouldn’t need an entire season and two off seasons to get into football shape. I think this mess changed him, and he’s simply not as good as he used to be. He’s a locker room cancer, and I don’t see anyone on the defense who could put him in his place. Certainly not GMC. Think back to when Keyshawn was starting trouble. We had captains handle it. We don’t have a presence like that now. Maybe Jameis but I don’t think that should be his responsibility. Hardy’s production just isn’t worth the baggage. It’s like Joe always says fans want a player because they recognize the name and don’t consider why they’re available to begin with.

  38. LUVMYBUCS Says:


    Did the Cowboys loss any corporate sponsors by signing Greg Hardy?
    I know Minnesota lost Radisson Hotels as a corporate sponsor – ove Adrian Peterson. But I can’t recall any corporate sponors with the NFL- puling deals over Greg Hardy.

  39. BuccaneerBonzai Says:

    WR Jermaine Kearse
    WR Roddy White

    CB Casey Hayward (depth)
    CB Prince Amukamara (depth)


    3 of them if necessary. Gotta find winners eventually.

    And frankly, I would trade GMC. I love the guy, but if he’ll be too old by the time we develop a defensive line, then trade him.

    We could get a first and second this year, and possibly a first next year for him.

    Think about it. We could replace him AND fix two other spots.

  40. BuccaneerBonzai Says:


    Why sign Hardy? Really?

    If you think he can sack, how will he do that when he is suspended? Because you know he WILL get suspended. Possibly a heavy suspension.

    Because he has a total lack of self control.

    So why sign him if he won’t play much? Are you that desperate?

  41. Espo Says:

    Forgiveness, repentance, accepting punishment, whatever, I can get over what he did, as a fan. As a man, I’m going to look down on trash like him. I can’t help it. Back as a fan again, I just don’t think he’s any good. And don’t play the gold digging stripper card. It’s not anymore acceptable to hit a stripper than it is to hit any other woman.

  42. BuccaneerBonzai Says:

    If they sign Greg Hardy…well…my time will go elsewhere until he is gone.

  43. LUVMYBUCS Says:

    Plus corporate sponors – come a dime a dozen in the NFL.

    You lose one – there’s a billion to take its place.

  44. BuccaneerBonzai Says:


    Did the Cowboys loss any corporate sponsors by signing Greg Hardy?”

    Do you know that they didn’t?

    Luv, I am with you on 90 percent of the things you post…but you’ve gone off the deep end on this one.

  45. Joe Says:

    Did the Cowboys loss any corporate sponsors by signing Greg Hardy?”

    The Cowboys and the Bucs are totally different animals. One is America’s Team and has a big-time national following and sponsors. The other has become America’s Joke and is lucky to sell out a game. One has a waiting list of sponsors. One doesn’t.

    Trust Joe, if the Bucs sign Hardy, it will be a money-loser. Just to give you a hint, Joe doesn’t go to One Buc Palace just to drink free Coke Zero.

    Also, the Cowboys didn’t re-sign Hardy. Should tell you all you need to know.

  46. tmaxcon Says:


    no one said it was acceptable to hit a stripper. If you read the police reports and testimony she was an aggressor herself… yes he’s scum but once a gain a person does not deserve his lively hood taken away for a mistake. Has his name been in the paper for legal issues… blowing up at a horrible coach on the sideline is not a legal issues its a heat of the moment game issue…

  47. BuccaneerBonzai Says:

    WR Jermaine Kearse
    WR Roddy White

    CB Casey Hayward (depth)
    CB Prince Amukamara (depth)

    These are middle ground players. 3 are young. All are healthy. All are cheap…and will allow us to go after DEs and RT in the draft.

  48. Bucsfanman Says:

    Count me in as NOT understanding the Hardy, we’ll call it “love”. Incidents aside, what has he done to evoke all the sudden interest? I know we’re desperate as fans for pass-rush but come on!
    It’s a travesty that the Bucs haven’t addressed this position. Just as Joe mentioned, by the time we get/develop one, we’re going to have to replace an aging GMC.
    My hope is that with an upgraded D (Mike Smith), the corners will be able to cover for a few seconds extra to get our existing D-line enough time to get to the QB.
    Greg Hardy is not the answer.

  49. Joe Says:

    Plus corporate sponors – come a dime a dozen in the NFL.

    Yeah, if you are the Cowboys, Giants, 49ers, Bears, Seahawks.

    The Bucs have so many corporate sponsors, about a third of the luxury boxes are empty on gamedays.

  50. Love and Warrick Dunn Says:

    I’m not one to say the team should only sign Boy Scouts, but, when the Cowboys, of all teams, decide he’s not worth the headache, isn’t that a red flag to anyone?

  51. Joe Says:

    I’m not one to say the team should only sign Boy Scouts, but, when the Cowboys, of all teams, decide he’s not worth the headache, isn’t that a red flag to anyone?

    Only to those who are not naive.

  52. BuccaneerBonzai Says:

    tmaxcon Says
    “Has his name been in the paper for legal issues…

    Actually, it was during the season. Don’t remember the details.

    But really, the locker room is pretty important too.

  53. Steve from oregon Says:

    Trade Glennon for Wilkerson if the Jets… fantasy world.

  54. salish_seamonster Says:

    The only free agent DE worth pursuing on day 1 really was Vernon. And that dude got 17 million per year, a contract he does not deserve and will not earn. I’m happy the Bucs didn’t get in on that sh!tshow. So this is where we are – people already panicked about DE, totally predictable because panic and overreaction is what JBF and Bucs fans in general do best.

    Peter King ‏@SI_PeterKing tweeted:

    Reminder to the panic-stricken that your team’s not doing mega-deals today: Lots more bad deals than good get signed on Free Agency day 1.
    (813) 964-1964

  55. mac Says:

    I agree completely Joe… However I do not blame Licht for not landing any of the top defensive ends in free agency… It’s more than obvious he made a run at Charles Johnson and a few others but he was beat out. Other teams have cap money too and maybe there are other teams that are more attractive to players than Tampa. Let’s not pretend that we know what goes on behind close doors at One Buc Place this time of year.

    I am also frustrated at the Bucs inability to develops a pass rusher but part of that blame lays at the feet of your buddy Mark Dominik…

  56. tmaxcon Says:


    I searched and could not find anything… Yes, the locker room is important but so is a little fire… GMC and his crew have PROVEN they don’t have the fire

  57. Joseph Mamma Says:

    “America’s joke” is right on the money Joe. Dirk has a monumental task ahead of him and look’s like we will be counting on a rookie DE and Mike Smith scheming us a pass rush.

  58. Jeagan1999 Says:

    @Espo…I agree. If theres one thing that makes me angry, its men who physically assault or bully women and children. UNACCEPTABLE!

  59. Lord Says:

    Yeah DE has been a problem but what has Joe suggested recently that the team didn’t try to do ?

    Are you saying we should have paid the close to 20 million a year for Vernon lol? Do you know for sure that we did not try to land Williams?

    Letting Bennet walk was stupid as hell and Clayborn / Bowers were failures but that isn’t on this regime. This regime had tried to sign DEs taking whoever they have been able to land but hasn’t drafted one yet due to rebuilding the offense.

    Just seems like generic doom and gloom article not calling out specific moves we need to make now

  60. Love and Warrick Dunn Says:

    Besides him being a ticking time bomb off the field, I don’t want a guy like this infecting the locker room:

    “NFL Media Insider Ian Rapoport reported Monday that the Cowboys defensive end was late to work last Thursday and missed meetings last week, per a team source. Hardy made it in time for practice and played in Sunday’s loss to the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.”

  61. nate123455789 Says:

    Sign Greg hardy and be done with it… draft Winston some real tightness our tight end now sucks.. and a speedy hideout come in five Winston a tampa bay..

  62. Tnew Says:

    The only guy I wish the Bucs would’ve attempted was Mario Williams. I was kind of hoping JPP would hit the market but he never did. Greg Hardy while intriguing is one episode away from a year suspension. That’s not going to work. Everyone who is saying Noah Spence is just too big of a risk, Hardy is worse of one.

    I think that Licht is playing this as, Jameis needs another year to develop. I want to save my big free agent spend for when it will send us to the Super Bowl. Thats not this year. I would like to see us pick up Nick Fairley but I think the Eagles are going to make a play for him. I would like to see GMC get some interior help as well.

  63. feelthepewterpower Says:

    Mario Williams/Charles Johnson…downside of their careers…Panthers fans didn’t want Johnson back!!!!! Ayers….one year…injured…not fully proven. Vernon? half a year…getting boatloads of cash as a result…not proven. JPP, unproven since his injury….who else are we looking at wasting cash on? Was Johnson proven when we paid him a large sum? No, he wasn’t. Lovie focused on the offense first..and for all intents and purposes the offense has improved drastically going from near 30th to tenth, and only will get better with experience under Koetter’s system. It frankly doesn’t matter who is playing alongside McCoy if he’s playing hurt. I agree, we need a DE…..but not breaking the bank for unproven free agents.

  64. Bobby M. Says:

    Agree…Buc fans need to realize the Glazer may ultimately determining the budget with this decade long mantra of “building through the draft”…Don’t be shocked if the team gets even more cheap now with a franchise QB that they believe will keep them in any game in the coming years. The NFL is biz not a hobby and those Glazer boys love cash over victories.

  65. LUVMYBUCS Says:

    In dismissing the charges against Hardy, Murray said he did not believe he had “the legal basis” to proceed without Holder in the witness stand. This week he explained why.

    “In theory, the fact that Hardy’s lawyer had cross-examined Holder during the first trial would have allowed prosecutors to present her earlier testimony and police statements to the jury, even in her absence. Except, Murray said there were “MAJOR inconsistencies” between the two, increasing the likelihood that a judge would find them inadmissible without Holder on hand to explain. Missing Holder and her statements, Murray said he could not have used the photos of her injuries, without the accompanying evidence of how she got them”

    Was Greg Hardy’s case – involving domestic abuse allegations against a former girlfriend dismissed? Did the District Attorney go back and refile? I’m lost

  66. feelthepewterpower Says:

    Sign Greg hardy and be done with it… draft Winston some real tightness our tight end now sucks.. and a speedy hideout come in five Winston a tampa bay..

    the same guy who went after the lovable Rich Bisaccia???!!!! Nah wave.

  67. Aaron Says:

    I don’t blame the Bucs for not paying for those top FA guys – hopefully they are investing in our ability to coach the DL up and our ability to evaluate DL talent.

  68. LifeOfABucFan Says:

    I’m going to throw this out..

    I really think Bucs are working some major trading..we do have a weapon on the bench that many teams could use right now…

  69. LUVMYBUCS Says:

    “The Bucs have so many corporate sponsors, about a third of the luxury boxes are empty on gamedays.”

    “When we’re winning, that kind of cures everything,”
    Denver Broncos

  70. Love and Warrick Dunn Says:

    “Was Greg Hardy’s case – involving domestic abuse allegations against a former girlfriend dismissed? Did the District Attorney go back and refile? I’m lost”

    He was found guilty, but, do to a peculiarity of North Carolina law, he is allowed to appeal(or be retried, something like that). Before the appeal happened, he paid off the girlfriend, so, she skipped town. With no girlfriend to testify, they had no case.

    If it happened in a different state, he would have had that charge on his record.

  71. lurker Says:

    so sad that you are “in the know” about things and yet keep crying about bennett…smh

    i know what happened, you know what happened, and yet your twist the truth…

  72. buzzed Says:

    Joe- I need some help here. Why are we not looking closely at Chris Long? He has had great seasons. He knows he crapped out the last two and he will come with a fire to prove it to everyone

  73. Nole on Sat.-Bucc on Sun. Says:

    Wow people would really take this guy hardy and place him in the same locker room with up and coming 22 year young athletes. Wow.

  74. LargoSamIM Says:

    “Funny how Ayers’ best season came in a contract year.” Well, if that doesn’t show Joe(s) double 9at lest) standars, I don’t know what does !! Ref: Doug Martin

  75. JabooBuc Says:

    I don’t even want that cancer Hardy near this town. You’ve got a young team and you people would risk having this idiot playing any kind of role on this team. Zero upside.

  76. ElioT Says:

    You’d think all these top tier guys would love to come play next to McCoy right? Hmmmm…

    Honestly, I think there is an extreme shortage of capable DEs in the NFL right now. Miami didn’t want to keep Vernon and chose to sign an older guy. Vernon then goes to sign for the fattest DE contract in history…

    It’s crazy!

    Hopefully we can manufacture a pass rush via a competent scheme, blitzing, etc…

    Maybe Gholston turns into a 10 sack guy… Maybe Smith can get 15 sacks…

    I’m more concerned with our WRs and overall depth right now than just the lack of a “pass rushing” DE.

  77. Rod Munch Says:

    Chris Long might be the best option still out there, he was very productive until a couple of years of injury. I’m still very disappointed they didn’t go harder after Mario, he was the only truly proven sack guy out there and the Bucs could have got him with no long term commitment if he flamed out. They have a ton of cap room, by the time you lose Mankins, just Carter and some others they are basically where they started in terms of cap room after their FA signings. The money has to go somewhere and it should have went into getting a quality starting DE AND drafting a starting DE, it’s not like they only need one, they need both. Smith is nice and all but he’s purely an edge pass rusher in the mold of a blitzing OLB, and we already have one that is much better in David. They need a true 4-3 DE and won’t have one again.

  78. Madden Couch Coach Says:

    What about Prince Amukamara? He´s a halfway decent CB for a bad secondary

  79. BuccaneerBonzai Says:

    Bottom line…if they sign Greg Hardy, they will lose half their fans or more.

    It would be a public relations nightmare and no amount of winning will matter.

  80. BuccaneerBonzai Says:

    Rod Munch Says
    “I’m still very disappointed they didn’t go harder after Mario, he was the only truly proven sack guy out there…”

    So not true. Charles Johnson was about the same level and younger.

  81. Buc1987 Says:

    “Beggars Can’t Be Choosers”

    “Indianapolis Colts Release QB Josh Freeman” – NY Slimes

  82. Buc1987 Says:

    No to Hardy at this point.

  83. GhostofSchiano Says:

    i can just hear Captain Fear now….Hardy harr harr

    i guess i will order my Greg Hardy jersey today

  84. mac Says:

    I would consider Chris Long or Hardy before I would give Ayers anything more than back up DE money… The dude is mediocre at best and we already have plenty of that…

  85. DB55 Says:

    Come on cocaine, strippers and guns after midnight never ends well.


    I beg to differ!

  86. Tiny Tim Says:

    Those luxury boxes are paid for, but sponsors could not give away a ticket. I have not gone to a game i had tickets to and could not give them away. That 2-14 year was brutal. And do not tell me licht was wrong not signing vernon. I told this whole board that michael johnson was no simeon rice the day we signed him and vernon is no jj watt. You dont over pay for average players no matter how much the joes and jbf posters whine about it. George johnson making 3 mil was not a bad contract at the time of the signing because that was his market value. Not getting any sacks after the fact is what made it bad. Malik jackson, vernon like michael johnson’s contract is horrible from day one.

  87. Rod Munch Says:

    BuccaneerBonzai – Yes true, but as the story says he took dramatically less money to resign in Carolina, so I didn’t include him in the mix since he basically took himself out of the conversation.

  88. Tom S. Says:

    I’m more a fan of throwing darts at the recent draft failures and seeing if one can stick. Joe’s pseudo 2013 1st round NFL draft choice Bjoern Werner is free and will come cheap. He may have been a product of a really bad fit in Indy’s 3-4. Quinton Coples seems like he has a few red flags but also would be a better fit in a 4-3 than 3-4 and has a lot of natural talent.

    Maybe one of them can turn into the next Jerry Hughes.

  89. Rod Munch Says:

    Bucs aren’t going to the sign Hardy. I’m fine with taking a chance on players who aren’t complete pieces of trash, for example Talib got in trouble and most of the people in places like this wanted to run him out of town… why? Because he fired a shot at a sexual predator who was violating a restraining order and threatening his sister. I mean seriously, why was Talib the bad guy for that? Sure he had other issues but mostly people wanted him ran out of town for that. Me, I wanted him signed up for the NRA so he could get some discounted shooting lessons so next time he didn’t miss.

    But Hardy… Hardy is complete and utter trash. What he did, what he has done since, there isn’t any explanation for it other than he’s garbage. The Bucs, and frankly every other team in the NFL, should avoid the guy like the plague. It’s not even like his on field play was spectacular last year.

  90. Buc1987 Says:

    I say no to Hardy.

  91. Tiny Tim Says:

    All this crap about the bucs losing sponsors and fans is idiotic. You remember we had the same conversation about winston last year. Even the dean of sports would even through that out there due to his love fest for mariota. Did the eagles loose any fans with vick? This just in the nfl is bigger than individual players and the teams and league wont lose a d@$n thing if hardy is signed.

  92. Buc1987 Says:

    DL DL DL in the draft then. Forget the other holes. Fix the DL once and for all damn it.

  93. LUVMYBUCS Says:

    New Buzz word — Greg Hardy

  94. Buc1987 Says:

    What did Hardy do for Dallas last season?

  95. Bradinator Says:

    Glancing at the current FAs for DE, there is not a lot there. Chris Long who has injury issues, Akiem Hicks and Jarvis Jenkins might come cheaper but don’t have a big history only some possible talent, Derek Wolfe has been strictly a 3-4 guy. Not much there. Don’t know what could have been done different. Draft and hope for the best, I guess

  96. Brent bull/buc Says:

    It’s hard to be perfect on both sides of the ball simultaneously. I’d get a #3 receiver like kearse add Schwartz for o-line then add like and ayers. Fa done. Than draft I’d go all defense first 3 tds. Safety cb de. Not that order but bpa.

  97. LUVMYBUCS Says:

    Psst – Don’t tell the corporate sponsors. But the Buccaneer website list him as one of the best available free agents(Per:

  98. LUVMYBUCS Says:


    Do u think Greg Hardy is a above average pass rusher?

  99. Bucsfanman Says:

    @Tiny Tim- there’s truth to what you say. In this case, however, the talent does NOT outweigh the risk or price-tag, for that matter. No matter what reason you use, Hardy just isn’t a good signing. We’re acting like the guy came off of two 15 sack seasons. He’s a glorified Will Gholston at this point. And please stop with the “fire” comments. JJ Watt has fire, Hardy has mental problems!

  100. Bucsfanman Says:

    ^^^^Do his stats reflect that LUV? Remember, it’s “what have you done for me lately”!

  101. mike10 Says:


    It’s time for you to have a town hall w/ Licht – ask him these questions. Your points are very precise.

    But you know how this is going to play out: We’re going to draft a DE and wait for his development – GMC will be 30 before he matures – if mystery DE is not a whiff.

  102. LUVMYBUCS Says:


    lol, Very true brotha. But get the dude back in building- with a full camp under his built. Fresh start – positive locker room. Outside of that shaam in Dallas. He’ll do his job.

  103. LargoBuc Says:

    Tiny, each team and market is different. Tampa has maybe a third of the corporate support of Philly. Pick any team in the nfc east, each one will have more support than the entire nfc south, or close to it.
    And even though we have a lombardi and the Eagles dont, Philly will always have more backing than Tampa. We could three peat and bspn will stiill air Philly more than the Bucs. I could go on and on but Tampa is one of those markets that will never get the glory no matter how many super bowls are won. No matter how many we win a market with no trophies like Philly is going tp get more air time. And sadly, corporate suits are glad the Bucs suck. It prevents the networks from talking about us and keeps all the air time to the big markets.

  104. martinii Says:

    It is what it is, and joe, or Jason Licht, or Dirk Koetter, can’t do a thing about it. Knowing that we can’t attract pass rushers, we need to focus on other ways to win games, like scoring a lot of points or committing few crucial penalties, or causing more turnovers. I don’t pretend to know much but I do know the big names seek out winners, consequently we are going to have to figure out other ways to win.

  105. LUVMYBUCS Says:

    All saying is give • TheKraken a incentive-laden, team-friendly contract.

  106. Ben the Ga Buc Says:

    Ayers left without a contract.

  107. Spacebuc Says:

    Nanny nanny poo poo
    Stick your head in doo doo

  108. Spacebuc Says:

    Dwight Freeney

  109. LifeOfABucFan Says:

    Wow..the old saying “No news is good news” doesn’t apply for the Bucs..

    No signings, no twitters, nothing…

    I am watching Malik’s presser…UGH…

  110. Buc1987 Says:

    Luv…it IS a what have you done for me lately league. Couple that with his off the field crap and I question his desire.

  111. Tiny Tim Says:

    @ bucsfanman

    I didnt say sign hardy. I said the bucs will not lose s¥!+ if they did. The market where a team is based makes no difference. If the bucs were winning with said player, the stands would be packed. Not because of hardy, but because the bucs were winning. If the bucs were losing with said player, then the stands would be empty. Not because of hardy, but because the bucs are losing. Like i said, the bucs nor the nfl will lose s ¥!+ if hardy is signed. Don’t fool yourself.

  112. Buc1987 Says:

    Buckner at 9 unless Bosa drops.

  113. Bucsfanman Says:

    TT- I’m agreeing with you. There’s a lot of short-term memory loss with fans. IF Hardy were to come here and the Bucs go to the playoffs, there will be crickets from the detractors, like you said.
    My view comes from a production standpoint. Right now he’s no better than any other DE we already have on this team. Do you add another average/above average guy with an attitude problem to your roster? If it’s me, absolutely not.
    The NFL is a business like no other.

  114. nate123455789 Says:

    You can.t win without pass rush please see Denver Broncos…. Sign Greg hardy sign Chris long sign.. if they don’t pan out cut him… maybe they will. We have no pass rushers.. and drafting one will take time to develop when’s the last time mike Smith developed a.pass rusher?

  115. nate123455789 Says:

    I’m tired of all this political correctness.. Our team is losers except for Winston sign Greg hardy!

  116. tmaxcon Says:


    Your killing me lol…. I do agree with you though especially if said stripper brings a friend

  117. cmurda Says:

    @ Luv. We’ve talked about it before and I don’t mean to beat a dead horse but I’m petrified of Noah Spence. Then again, Warren Sapp dropped into our laps in 1995 to the 12th overall pick thanks to off-field concerns. He was originally expected to be the top pick in the draft. He never ended up being a major problem during his playing days and he remains as one of our most value-producing pick in Bucs history. All I’m saying is while I remain worried about Noah’s potential behavior I’m not far behind you selling my soul to get a semblance of a pass rush.

  118. cmurda Says:


    Unlikely Bosa drops beyond #3 pick. I think it’s very possible that the Bucs entertain interest in moving up if he lasts to the #3 pick or later though. We really need our picks though because we have multiple holes. However, as pathetic as our pass rush is and Bosa is about as close to a slam dunk stud DE as possible, I wouldn’t put it past us especially if we throw in a player. My first thought would be packaging Glennon and maybe a 3rd rounder to get to #2 and I seriously doubt that would be enough of a package for the Browns to bite. We would likely have to move all the way up to #2 because only the Browns and 49ers would likely be interested in Glennon at this point. The 9ers pick at #7 and I’m positive that Bosa would be gone by then.

  119. Dom Says:

    i agree McCoy needs help but the options out there were iffy considering the price. But I think Noah Spence could make an immediate impact at DE, maybe that’s what the Bucs think too?

  120. LUVMYBUCS Says:


    I hear U – still I would sign him in a heart beat.

    It’s time man – we gotta stop pu33y footin around. If U wanna win a war – so time you gotta hire a few mercenaries. This sh!t aint never gonna be perfect. Drafting team captains, and high character guys might good for the seminary; but not the NFL. Ask DOM

    I’ve never seen a Penn St type team win the Super Bowl- Have U?

    No Matter what you think about:

    70’s Dolphins, Steelers, Raiders Cowboys.
    80’s 49er’s, Giants, Washington,
    90’s Cowboys, Packers
    00′ Patriots

    There was bad characters on all those team.
    Guys they new were bad characters in college-But they still drafted them anyway.
    Why? Because its all about winning.

    No more excuses. Sign’em
    – Trust the characters in your locker room. Clint, Vincent, Gerald, and Lavonte.

  121. d-money Says:

    Ever consider that Jason Licht believes that he already has some good players and that their production, or lack thereof, was more of a reflection on the coaches scheme than of the players abilities?

    Licht scouted and signed most of these guys. If you think you have signed terrible players across the board then A.) you probably don’t fire the coach after just 2 Years and B.) The GM should probably be the one fired instead.

    No, you fire the coach that quickly when you are giving the coach solid player after player and none are panning out.

    I would be willing to bet every penny I have that when the Glazers were discussing getting rid of the coach Licht was at some point thinking…hey, My staff and I are doing countless hours of scouting and research on players only to have this guy do nothing with them.

    Two years in a row he signed what looks to be a solid group of free agents that have, for the most part, been productive players in the past and they’re all busts.

    On top of that the 1st round draft pick that he inherited wasn’t good enough for his defense but is now playing very well with another team. The CB that led the team in INT’s the previous season is on the bench. Aaaand, as Joe points out all the time but the stupidity of it can’t be over stated, he couldn’t find a use for a once in a generation, future first ballot Hall of Fame player in his defense.

    There are three possible explanations for all f this…

    1.) Licht is a terrible GM with a terrible scouting department and just happened to get lucky in last years draft.

    2.) Every single free agent the Bucs sign forgets how to play football when the walk into the team facility

    Or 3.) Lovie is a bad coach with a ancient defensive scheme that doesn’t work in today’s NFL.

    My money is on #3. , if I’m the GM and I think I’m good at my job and my scouting department staff is good at their jobs then I probably have faith that a few of the guys I’ve signed aren’t bums but were being set up to fail by playing in a defensive scheme that is riddled with holes.

  122. Spacebuc Says:

    Still available:
    Brandon Marshall
    Casey Hayward
    Reggie Nelson
    Prince Amukamara
    Evan Mathis
    Chris Long
    Tahir Whitehead
    Nick Fairley
    Jason Jones
    Courtney Upshaw
    James Laurenitis
    Terrance Knightin
    Patrik Robinson

  123. LifeOfABucFan Says:

    Guys..I hope this sums it all up about the NFL all around…and het ready to pee your’s hysterical..

  124. Mike Johnson Says:

    The Giants dumped this clown for a reason. Aahh yes, the bargain bin.Where what your bargain breaks down after 2 or 3 good uses. The bargain bin where you get the bang for your buck and your team is stuck on..Suck!! …like my Bucs! Maybe I should take up..Rapping?

  125. DB55 Says:

    tmaxcon Says:
    March 10th, 2016 at 2:39 pm

    Your killing me lol…. I do agree with you though especially if said stripper brings a friend
    Like Rachel Watson? Now that’s a Pppaaaaaarrttttyy

  126. Bucsfanman Says:

    ^^^”Maybe I should take up..Rapping?”…..only if you can (w)rap up your negativity! OHHHHHHH! I’ll be here all week!!!
    Just kidding, ghost.

  127. dave Says:

    this has been going on for so long. banking on players already on the roster and on 3 sack guys. i honestly cant believe we couldnt at least offer mario williams more money than miami. we mess around when you can go get someone thats already done it for years. whats the point of having all this damn. money

  128. LUVMYBUCS Says:

    Any word on #TahirWhitehead?

  129. LifeOfABucFan Says:

    I’m listening to WR James jones…boy he wants to play a few more years…

  130. LifeOfABucFan Says:

    No word on Tahir, other than he’s meeting with the Bucs..usually by now we know the when, where, why, and…

  131. LUVMYBUCS Says:

    Yeah – true. lol

    Thank U

  132. wesley Says:

    No Hardy, dude is average anyhow.

  133. LifeOfABucFan Says:

    CJ Anderson is gone..
    Whitehead back with Lions..

    Flocking unreal…

  134. FuNkYxMuNkEy Says:

    He may be a cancer and may be a nut job. But Hardy is the most talented guy available. And will be cheap. Thats the key word. Sign him and pray he keeps it together. IF he doesn’t. We cut him and try again.

  135. StPeteBucsFan Says:

    So does Dallas have an incredible defensive line ready to rewrite the record books with sacks?

    If they do not have the best pash rush in the league why are they so willing to let Hardy walk if Hardy was really all that?

  136. LifeOfABucFan Says:

    Can someone explain how the Fins and giants can spend so much? will this cause them problems come next year? they just got their RB, CJ…so how can they do this?

  137. MadMax Says:


    Like you said, we cant be choosy while we’re pretty much in beg mode now for a FA DE!!

  138. godzilla13 Says:

    Since our FA period is going to be over soon its time to focus on the draft considering there will be no players other than the two we signed.

    1) Noah Spence DE Eastern Kentucky (6′ 3″ 255)
    2) Vernon Butler DT Louisiana Tech (6′ 3″ 310)
    3) Braxton Miller WR Ohio State (6′ 1″ 210)
    4) Charles Tapper DE Oklahoma 6′ 2″ 282
    5) Cyrus Jones CB Alabama (5′ 10″ 195)
    6) T.J. Green* S Clemson (6′ 2″ 210)
    6) Roberto Aguayo* K Florida State 5′ 11″ 210

  139. CLBucsFan Says:

    Say it loud say it proud Joe! And it’s not just Olivier Vernon that we missed out on. Derrick Shelby was a potential FA and then there was Tamba Hali. It feels like teams don’t want to sign with the Bucs.

  140. MadMax Says:

    I still cant get behind using our 1st on Spence. Maybe a 2nd and Im thinking he’ll be there in the 2nd….could be wrong though.

    Def like the Miller pick for 3rd, and Cyrus Jones would be a return guy too. But I think he’s going 3rd round, and def wont make it out of the 4th.

    Im beginning to think Bosa might make it to us if he gets past Dallas and Baltimore. San fran is probably going QB and Philly is probably going RB. So in that scenario, I say grab Bosa and then move back into the 1st for DT Billings.