Jameis Watch: The Godfather Shift

March 1st, 2015
jameis 0108

Team Mariota picks up a big name

Crab-legs-stealing, BB-gun-shooting, obscenity-hollering, Heisman-Trophy-winning, former national champion Jameis Winston, the pride of Florida State University, continues to look like a much better quarterback prospect than Mike Glennon and Josh McCown.

It’s Joe’s daily nugget on the Jameis Watch, celebrating the best quarterback ever to wear No. 5 in the state of Florida.

The architect of the Cowboys in the 1960s, 70s and 80s, and “The Godfather” of modern scouting, Gil Brandt remains a busy many working for NFL.com, SiriusXM NFL Radio, and the NFL Scouting Combine.

Brandt officially blessed Jameis Winston to the Bucs six weeks ago. And five weeks ago, Joe pressed Brandt in person on the great quarterback debate, Winston vs. Marcus Mariota. There, at Super Bowl Media Day, Brandt told Joe that Winston comes up “clean and ready” no matter how many times it’s scrutinized from a personnel man’s grading standpoint.

“You’ll always look deeper into a tape, but I don’t think he has anything negatives. Really.” Brandt told Joe five weeks ago. “You won’t hear evaluators talk about his bad film. His negative is he can’t afford to do something silly between now and the draft. A perceived character risk is different for every team.”

Now, it appears, Brandt has adjusted his stance.

Via Twitter on Friday, Brandt said Mariota is the smarter pick for a team thinking “long-range.”

Brandt’s logic here is fuzzy. Any team drafting a QB at the top of the first round wants the best long-range prospect. A team with a miserable record bad enough to earn that pick would not be a rookie QB away from the Super Bowl.

The X-factor with Brandt’s logic is that perhaps he was inferring Lovie Smith and Jason Licht might need a fast jolt to their quarterback position in order to help save their jobs. That guy, the most pro-ready guy, is Winston.

179 Responses to “Jameis Watch: The Godfather Shift”

  1. J Moné Says:

    How about the fact that Winston has “it” I’ll take that all day over “long-range” rofl who says crap like that.

  2. seminolebuccaneer Says:

    Flip flops are great for us Floridians but not so great for members of the nedia

  3. Fishfries Says:

    So RG3 had better “long term” potential over Andrew Luck right?

  4. DraftJameis Says:

    As John Maynard Keynes said: “We’re all dead in the long-run!”

  5. knuckledragger Says:

    Im still firmly in the Trade Down crowd but Im starting to warm up to the idea of Mariota

  6. Bucnut2 Says:

    What it does Arron Rodgers have. Imo it’s way overrated.johhni f had the it factor. It’s just another lame reason put forth by Winston supporters. I’ll repeat what I’ve been saying, If he played at Ohio state we would be screaming for mariota. Simple as that.

  7. jody Says:

    Got to be Mariota! He’s a bigger faster version of Russel Wilson. How many picks did Winston throw compared to Mariota? Worst O line in the league and the holes fans want a statue QB?

  8. Tampabaybucfan Says:

    The Landry reveal yesterday indicated NFL team officials were “leaning” Mariota 23-10….although Mocks show a clear Winston lead.

    Brand’s shift to Mariota could be one of many over the coming weeks…..I don’t think Mockers want to shift back and forth from one pick to the other….so it may take some time.

    Winston supporters will disagree, of course….but I think the Mocks indicate Winston is the pick because they feel at 2-14 Lovie is in a “win-now” desparate situation…If they start to believe Lovie has been granted the time (as I believe) they will change their selection to Mariota.

  9. Tampabaybucfan Says:


    I know you like to post songs…..so, I have one for you!!!

    “Slip slidin’ away
    Slip slidin’ away
    You know the nearer your destination
    The more you’re slip slidin’ away”

  10. biff barker Says:

    Better raise the side rails on the Winston wagon. The smart folks have already jumped.

  11. knuckledragger Says:

    Great song TBBF

  12. Luther Says:

    Stupid talk. Winston is better than Mariota all day and twice on Sundays this fall.

  13. Lev In philly Says:

    I think winston is the better “long term” pick since he is a better pure QB than Mariota. It’s as simple as that.

  14. Joseph Mamma Says:

    I want them to pick Mariota becomes he seems humble and won’t fly off the handle when this team gets beaten and beaten bad when he first takes over. No character risk, he will make to the club on time. I think he has to be the pick. Also, no chance he F’s this team and decides to play baseball.

  15. 87ForJameisNOMariota Says:

    “A smile relieves a heart that grieves
    Remember what I said
    I’m not waiting on a lady
    I’m just waiting on a friend
    I’m just waiting on a friend” – The Rolling Stones

  16. Tampabaybucfan Says:

    @ Knuckledragger

    Yes….good song….most young ones don’t know it.

    No crews for you on Sunday…..especially in Montana!!!

    I appreciate the “trade down” philosophy…(depends on the deal)…..but I truly think it’s time to pull the trigger on a QB. I’m not MGM…but I’d love to see him stay while our rookie develops….I could stand a few more losses if it meant a long-term winner…

  17. Jeagan1999 Says:

    The ideal situation would be to start Glennon and let Mariota/Winston ride the bench their rookie year. Too many rookie QBs get thrust into a situation they’re not ready for and fail. Taking a season to learn and adapt makes a lot of sense. As for Winston….I think a lot of people are wavering back and forth on him. Not only on the off field behavior and activities, but all the INTs too. Picking the wrong QB costs millions of dollars and can set an organization back 3 years or more. Personally, I’d go Mariota. He can make every NFL throw….including the long ones (last season at Oregon he threw 88 passes over 20 yds, 19 of them were TDs). He’s extremely fast and agile….which with our O-line being rebuilt will come in handy should he have to play. And we know there are no fears of behavioral or character issues with him. He will be a great QB for years to come.

  18. Tampabaybucfan Says:


    “As Tears Go By”

    It is the evening of the day
    I sit and watch the children play
    Smiling faces I can see
    But not for me
    I sit and watch
    As tears go by

    Rolling Stones

  19. Dave Pear Says:

    Here comes Winston ( du du du du)
    Here comes Winston
    And I say
    It’s alright – George Harrison

  20. 87ForJameisNOMariota Says:

    As far as Lovie is concerned so far. there are “no fears of behavioral or character issues with Winston. ”

    So far.

  21. Luther Says:

    I’m a chess player so let me use a chess analogy. Bobby Fischer and Gary Kasparov are/were two of the most arrogant and self serving players in history. They also are/were the most popular players in chess history.

    You don’t pick the second best guy because he’s nice enough for your sister. You pick the best player because he Wins-a-ton.

    I can’t believe people are so willing to take a chance on a guy they have never seen do the things that they want him to do,

  22. knuckledragger Says:

    LOL yeah Im far from young TBBF.
    No bro, no work today. I would never ask my guys to work on a Sunday. Saturdays are completely optional.
    As far as the trade goes I am mainly for it because we have too many holes to fill . Im not a MGMer per say. I just know that he never was given a great opportunity. Im a life long fan so I will roll with whatever the people that get paid to make those decisions, do.

  23. knuckledragger Says:

    @Actually TBBF, Im about to take my son to Virginia City to pan for gold. He’s gonna have a blast

  24. 87ForJameisNOMariota Says:

    You know I, I found the simple life, weren’t so simple, no
    When I jumped out on that road
    Got no love, no love you’d call real
    Got nobody waiting at home
    Runnin’ with the devil
    Runnin’ with the devil
    Runnin’ with the devil
    Runnin’ with the devil – Van Halen

    Satan is coming to Tampa Bay!

  25. Tampabaybucfan Says:


    Take a chance on me
    Gonna do my very best and it ain’t no lie
    If you put me to the test, if you let me try

    Take a chance on me
    (That’s all I ask of you Lurker)
    Take a chance on me


  26. LargoBuc Says:

    Winston, who I beleive the bucs will draft, will likely struggle next year. But we have to give our choice at least four years. Just like Lovie should get at least four years. And hopefully Dirk stays at least two years. We are building a team here. It takes time it takes commitment. You cant just fire everyone when things are rough. Unless we go 2-14 again we committed to Lovie. And we will be committed to Jameis(or Mariota) for better or for worse. And I for one am excited. I beleive we are seeing this team be built for the better with some leadership and Vision (just keep Lovie in the kitchen though).

  27. Tampabaybucfan Says:


    Absolutely stop the revolving door at HC……

  28. Couch Fan Says:

    This isnt exactly a shift. He’s saying the samething everybody else has already said. If you have an established QB already, then you can afford to draft Mariota because he’s going to take some time to develop. Everybody knows this.

    Winston can and will win you games now and into the future. Winston is worthy of #1, Mariota is not. Thats what Brandy is saying and its truth.

    Welcome to Tampa, Jameis!

  29. Couch Fan Says:


  30. Nybucsfan Says:

    The hunting ground

  31. Senor Mofo Says:

    I’m on board with either.

    I’m not on board with neither.

    We have to take one of these QBs, and we almost certainly will. Trading down is not an option, unless we somehow mastermind some complex multiple-team trade that still allows us to get one of these guys.

    I heavily lean Mariota, because of his quick decisions, superior athleticism, compact delivery, lightning-fast release, and because his eyes are always down field even when he’s on the move. Once he adjusts to the NFL game, he can be the type of QB that can systematically disembowel an opposing defense.

    But Winston is very smart, his delivery is getting better, and he already makes anticipation throws better than half the QBs in the NFL. He doesn’t bring the versatility that Mariota brings, but Winston can quickly develop into an exceptional pocket passer.

    The Bucs will not be thinking short-term or win-now. We can have early success with either one of these guys, but long-term success is clearly the goal.

  32. biff barker Says:

    Better flush twice.

    It’s a long way back to Tallahassee.

  33. knuckledragger Says:

    Sr. Mo Fo laying it down.
    Im outta here folks. Keep the Bucn Fight strong.

  34. ADown88 Says:

    @Senor mofo

    I think you underestimate Winstons mobility. No, the guy doesn’t run very fast in a straight line, but his pocket mobility and presence are FAR greater than Mariotas, which is huge. Also, he has a lot of lateral abilities as well.

  35. Tampabaybucfan Says:

    @ Couch

    “Winston is worthy of #1, Mariota is not. Thats what Brandt is saying and its truth”

    Where is it that he stated Mariota is not worth the #1 pick?….I missed it…

  36. Couch Fan Says:

    Read between the lines TBBF. of course he’s not going to say that. Lol


    “I would take Mariota over Winston for long-range. But it all depends on if I needed QB this year. If so, Winston.”

    In other words if you dont have a QB and need one this year most teams atop the draft, Jameis is your guy. If you already have an established QB, which most likely means your not atop the draft, then you can afford to take Mariota to develop a few years before throwing him out there.

    Doesn’t take a genius to figure it out. Any more questions?

    Welcome to Tampa, Jameis!

  37. Erik with CleanAthletics.com Says:

    Luther & 87 are starting to squirm…. When this whole process shakes out, Mariota will be our new QB, gentlemen. Especially since since the bad negative publicity for Winston is going to be increasing between now & the draft bcuz of that girl….

  38. Erik with CleanAthletics.com Says:

    Um, typos

  39. DEEnice07 Says:


  40. Barry knows all Says:

    Have you ever wondered what #TheCreepyCrab character was before college? #AdditionalCharacterIssues ? I’m curious to know #Wonderlic. I think most logical GM’s realize #TheCreepyCrab is a ticking time bomb. It’s not a matter of if, but of when it will go off. #NotTrusted #NoFaceOfFranchise #NoWinston

  41. ADown88 Says:

    When I envision Barry, I think of the kid with the same name on American Dad. At these his comments are a lot like his…

  42. ADown88 Says:


  43. Senor Mofo Says:


    I’m not underestimating Winston’s mobility. His pocket movement is far better than his measurables indicate.

    But Mariota doesn’t just have straight-line speed, he has a second gear. If the play breaks down and he has to run, and he finds any space at all, he is gone. He’s faster than most NFL cornerbacks.

    Winston’s 40-time may be slower even than Glennon’s. But he is clearly more mobile and responsive than Glennon on the field. Winston’s lack of the track-star athleticism that Mariota has doesn’t concern me at all.

    Both QBs have elite skills. Both can win early. Winston can rapidly assimilate the NFL game, and Mariota’s athleticism and rapid-fire release will still allow him to move the offense while he masters the pro game.

    The idea that Mariota has to sit for any length of time is absurd.

    The concerns about both QBs are obvious and have been debated ad nauseam. I’d take Mariota, but I would still welcome Winston.

  44. Tampabaybucfan Says:

    @ Couch

    So…you aren’t interested in a QB for the long-term….just a quick fix….

    And…no….I don’t read between the lines like you and Joe…..

  45. Couch Fan Says:


    No, I want Jameis because he is simply better and he’s nowhere near reached his full potential. I thought I already made that pretty clear. He’s better now and will be better than Mariota in the future.

    And you dont need to read between the lines to figure out what he said. It’s clear and straight forward for anybody to see.

    If he thought Mariota was better or #1 material, he would not phrase Mariota as being better “long term”. Lol, its a nice way to attempt to compare him to Winston, because as of right now, there is no comparison.

    Welcome to Tampa, Jameis!

  46. ADown88 Says:


    No, you obviously don’t. To you, everyone is always telling the truth and everyone is always correct in their assessment.

  47. Josh P Says:

    “But it all depends on if I needed QB this year. If so, Winston.”

    Sound like the Bucs situation??????

    I’ve always said both these QB’s are going to be good in the NFL..JW is just more ready to start next season.. 5 years from now both these guys could be playing in the Pro Bowl together.IMO

  48. LargoBuc Says:


    Yes continuity is very important. Lovie is the most credible coach we’ve had since Gruden. This team had some talent but very little depth. Lovie needs time to establish his locker room. Despite the 2-14 start I have more faith in Lovie than Schiano and Raheem combined. Lovie and Licht need to find their QB to not only play but to lead in a way other players can’t.

  49. 87ForJameisNOMariota Says:

    Erik….I’m MORE confident today than I was 2 weeks ago that Winsotn will be the pick.

    No squirming what-so-ever.

    I read what Brandt said the same way Couch Fan read it. No worries.

  50. ADown88 Says:


    Honestly, completely agree. I fluctuate between around 90-95% certain we will take Winston, and right now I’m at 95.

  51. Josh P Says:

    @Barry what is the Wonderlic going to tell you???

    Top 10 Scores:
    Ryan Fitzpatrick 2005 Harvard 48
    Greg McElroy 2011 Alabama 43
    Jason Maas 1999 Oregon 43
    Blaine Gabbert 2011 Missouri 42
    Drew Henson 2000 Michigan 42
    Bruce Eugene 2006 Grambling State 41
    Hugh Millen 1986 Washington 41
    Darrell Hackney 2006 Alabama Birmingham 40
    Alex Smith 2005 Utah 40
    Eli Manning 2004 Mississippi 39

    Bottom 10 scores:
    Ted White 1999 Howard 12
    Tobi Karrode 2007 Central Missouri State 12
    Marcus Smith 2006 Virginia Tech 11
    Ell Robertson 2004 Kansas state 11
    Romario Miller 2001 Mississippi 11
    Tee Martin 2000 Tennessee 11
    Michael Bishop 1999 Kansas state 10
    Jeff George 1990 Illinois 10
    Vince Evans 1977 USC 8
    Oscar Davenport 1999 North Carolina 6

    Hell Ryan Leaf scored a 27 and for all you JaMarcus Russell lovers he scored a 24

    J.Kelly,Marino,&McNair scored 15

    Barry do yourself a favor and don’t put any stock in the Wonderlic determining if a QB is going to be good or not.

  52. Tampabaybucfan Says:


    Yes…until proven differntly…..I believe Winston also….not the accuser because of the inconsistancy of her stories…..I will believe someone until they are proven wrong…especially if it has no effect on me….like sports…this is all a hobby for us fans….not our profession….not to be taken too seriously….

    I believe you too….

  53. Senor Mofo Says:

    If we draft Jameis, we are just drafting the same type of QB that we’ve always drafted in the first round, and we’ll just hope that he’s better.

    In the words of John Cleese . . . “and now for something completely different.”

    We are drafting Marcus Mariota.

  54. Josh P Says:


    If Winston is going to be good next year then why wouldn’t he be good for years after??? he’s 21, not like his body is going to start breaking down anytime soon.. Remember Mariota is the more injury prone of the 2 and his playing style is more susceptible to injury anyway…So if we are going to say these guys are pretty even in football smarts and then looking at longevity Im going to lean towards Winston…

  55. ADown88 Says:

    This is an opinion though… From what I’ve heard, it’s tough to prove those.

  56. Tampabaybucfan Says:

    I admire the defense of Winston from fans who have had to “circle the wagons”…..It’s never easy being under attack constantly….especially if the other side is unreasonable with their argument (rape allegations)

    And I suspect Winston fans will stick with him no matter what happens….and if he is picked….they are probably aware that he will continually be attacked….even if he wins. The attack will be unmercyful from the opposing fans, some media, feminists, Evangelicals, racists….etc.

    I excercise empathy when it comes to Winston and the unproven allegations……How would I lke to be publicly accused of something I didn’t do?

    I do believe that if Winston fans are intelectually honest….the must admit that the process has to be completed before announcing him trustworthy.

    If it is, and we choose him…..I’ll hitch my wagon to yours and become a defender too!!!

  57. Barry knows all Says:

    He’s smartest QB ever besides P.Manning, right? Like to compare them. Post your own thoughts, something like your beliefs that it’s not rape because women ask for it.

  58. ADown88 Says:

    @Barry knows all

    I don’t know what your words mean.

  59. Tampabaybucfan Says:

    @Couch & Josh P.

    I would take Mariota over Winston for long-range. But it all depends on if I needed QB this year. If so, Winston

    It is crystal clear to me…..”this year” Winston, “long-rance Mariota…..that’s what the man said….no reading between lines….like he really meant Winston short & long range…..if you are reading that…it’s not there….

    And, Josh….obviously Brandt thinks Winston is good short range but Mariota is better long rance….I agree….perhaps it means that he doesn’ trust Winston over the long haul….that is where I am….along with the ceiling I think Mariota brings….if you add his athleticism to learning the NFL style offenses.(some spread included)……along with his demonstrated high character….he is better long term.

  60. ndog Says:

    Just pick the best frigging player and that is Winston. We don’t need a guy that ran a gimmick offense to try to turn a real offense around at the NFL level. I have said it before and will again Winston is the better player now, tomorrow, in two months and in 15 years. What blows me away is how people don’t get how lucky we are to be able to get a player of this caliber. This has been the best qb in every game he had ever played, Including the game against Oregon. I just went back and watched that game again and when your look at actual throws that matter it really isn’t even close. Mariota missed throws over the middle high and low. Missed receivers wide open and tried to run several times when had check downs wide open. Now Jameis had his team moving up and down the field and if not for two fumbles by Cook and dropped passes by Rudolph and Greene that would have probably have had 28 more points. This guy is so good and I truly believe he is going to be better than Luck. I am being dead serious and of course could be wrong but this seems so easy for the Bucs that if they messed it up we are going to regret it for a long time.

  61. Josh P Says:


    Here’s your comparison…

    Peyton actually did something inappropriate to a female

    Winston is accused of doing something to a female whose story has more holes in it than a slice of swiss cheese..

    and Peyton’s Wonderlic score was 28..1 point higher than Ryan Leaf…

  62. ndog Says:

    Why exactly is Mariota better long term? So all these people think he is going to learn how to do things he has never done before by sitting on the bench? This is the new NFL where practice time is limited and backup reps are non existent. And if this guy goes out there early on he will get kiilled anf he will end up running more than he wants because he will be trying to learn against the best in the world. He showed it against FSU and OSU once the run is not a option he is average at best.

  63. ndog Says:

    I love these quick decision comments about Mariota. Yeah those aren’t that hard when he is told either throw it here or hand it off. Man you have to have sick skills to be able to count the number of people in front of you.

  64. Couch Fan Says:

    If you dont trust Jameis for the long haul why would you trust him for the short haul either? If you dont trust someone, you dont trust him. I never heard somebody say “i trust you now, but tomorrow I’m not going to trust you, just in case.” Lol, that makes no sense to me.

    In the same way, if Jameis is the best player now, why would you draft Mariota hoping he’s better in the long term. That is insane. Nothing clear about that. Unless Winston’s background check doesnt pass or your a team drafting when Jameis is off the board.

    Welcome to Tampa, Jameis!

  65. David Says:

    The problem with Winston is he may or may not be a long term quarterback, not because of the on-field Winston but because of the immature, league suspension, team crushing suspension Winston! Mariota is the safer and better pick. Before you say it, yes I think he can win just as many, if not more games than Winston. Who wants the negative media circus Winston will bring, especially if he has an episode or he acts anything like what he acted like with his head coach (while Losing) on the sideline in the Rosebowl game. Too many reasons to not take him, sorry but I’m in it for the long haul. Waiting for Mariota awhile won’t bother me. Winston won’t come in and win like he thinks he will. Both are rookies and will play as such. Mariota is a Winner, smart, an incredible athlete, great leader and role model by example on and off the field. My family will be proud to have him represent our Tampa Bay Buccaneers!

  66. JoeJoes Fungi Nails Says:

    After the Bucs draft Mariota will the Jameis articles stop ?

  67. Josh P Says:


    I know exactly what Brandt is saying..Brandts issue with Winston long term is clearly his off the field stuff.

    ” A perceived character risk is different for every team.”.

    But if you are in the belief that Winston will mature and be responsible(like myself and many other people) why would Mariota be anymore of long term fix than Winston??

    Just remember.. Athletic and fast QB’s never fully go away from their god given talents…Thats my concern with Mariota, is that he still try to run away from people. Your not going be able to do that in the NFL.. ask RGIII, Kaep, and Vick.. Even before Vick went to jail his body was starting to break down because his style of play..

    I’ve said before… I think the Bucs are in a Win Win situation. both have risk…I just lean towards JW.

  68. Tampabaybucfan Says:


    Ask Brandt….

    For me….it’s clear…..character matters….especially long-term….Winston hasn’t proven he can be trusted. Athleticism…..doesn’t hurt….nothing is worse with it.
    I actually think that Mariota has all the skills Winston has….plus the above. Those are the tie-breakers for me.

  69. Nybucsfan Says:

    Guess what the hunting ground is now going to start changing there minds. A U.S. Sen. anyone who is thinking about drafting him should watch the film

  70. Josh P Says:

    @Ndog & Couch

    Agreed, both these players carry risk with their pick…But If you’re good with Winston in 2015 why all of a sudden would that change in 2017 and beyond??

    If you throw out Winstons “off field” risk and throw out Mariota’s “learnig curve” risk and with what we’ve seen on the field i have to lean towards Winston. I’ve seen this kid come back when the team is down in the 4th Q multiple times and on the biggest stage in college football at that.

    Down by 4 less than 2:00 minutes in the 4th Q. .you would you HONESTLY want under center???

  71. Tampabaybucfan Says:

    @ Josh P.

    A reasonable position to take…..we just disagree…..as many do.

    The character issue is difficult because it will take time.

    As far as RG3/Vick……I think NFL teams are fully aware of the injuries sustained from “running” QBs….we are already seeing it with Cam Newton. If the Bucs choose Mariota, I think they should be careful how they use him.

    Obviously injuries can happen to all types……Sam Bradford is an example…..Carson Palmer…..the list can go on.

  72. TeeBeeFan Says:

    @j mone

    Saying a player has “it” is nonsensical and adds nothing to our understanding or appreciation. If there is some fact to such player that makes or will make that player successful, then words should be used to express that fact or facts upon which the proposition relies. If you cannot define what “it” is in reference to such player, then you do not comprehend what that something may be. As Ludwig Wittgenstein wrote, “Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent.”

  73. chris k Says:

    I think ndog might be in love with Jameis. How he can’t see the skillset in Mariota and only sees Winston’s positive and completely blind to his negatives must equal love. Nothing else can explain it.

  74. biff barker Says:

    “We don’t need a guy that ran a gimmick offense to try to turn a real offense around at the NFL level.”
    More lame splather from the Winston wagon.

  75. Robert 9 Says:

    I do not doubt if it were on skills alone the poll would be flipped in favor of JW.

    but they do not hire skills. they hire the person. especially at QB, face of the franchise, team leader.

    employers look at his combine interview and come away with a cocky, immature, self centered head case. The politically correct thing they would say is he lacks “mental toughness” and “critical decision making skills”

    he blew those interviews with all that keeping it real crap.

  76. St. Pete Fan Says:

    And to NYBUCSFAN…

    I hope you, and people who choose to see the film, take note that “the victim” has now had her story morph back to being drugged that evening, in the face of two separate toxicology screens run on her blood sample showing no evidence of drugs in her system. Her story seems to be… “Take your pick. I was hit on the head, I was drugged, I was drunk.” No matter that there’s no evidence of any one of those!

  77. ndog Says:

    Mariota will be drafted on potential and that rarely works out. To me he is the biggest risk in this draft. I want guys how I know can play not that one day projects to be good. A lot of guys have “the skills” but don’t get it done against the guys that also have skills is a whole different ball game. Take away the run and Mariota has struggled but nothing, not a poor running game, a poor defense, off field crap nothing has forced Jameis to struggle. Again why is there a debate?

  78. Tampabaybucfan Says:

    @ Couch

    “I never heard somebody say “i trust you now, but tomorrow I’m not going to trust you, just in case.” Lol, that makes no sense to me.”

    Trust is also a matter of risk…..
    You might trust someone with a dollar….but $10,000 dollars….maybe no.

    You might trust a QB for a year…but have doubts’ for the long run.

    The same argument is made about Mariota & injuries….

    You might trust (lkie RG3) he could be spectacular running the ball short-term….. but fearful in the long term.

  79. Josh P Says:


    “If the Bucs choose Mariota, I think they should be careful how they use him.”

    Thats fine in dandy…But once those fast/athletic QB’s get out on the field its hard for them to not resort to that when that first read isn’t there.. This is my concern with Mariota and that 4 to 5 years down the road he’s going to be all beat up..

    Lets just agree that whoever they draft it finally works in the Bucs favor and we can get back to our winning ways for years to come.

  80. ndog Says:

    I agree guys Mariota does have skills and they would make him a good slot wideout.

  81. Tampabaybucfan Says:

    @ St. Pete

    You know that evidence doesn’t matter in the court of public opinion……there are literally millions that will believe her side of the story no matter what the evidence….that is the unfortunate truth. You can argue the evidence all day long….it won’t matter to that crowd.
    You will have to admit that the accuser has been legitimized in the film by appearing with many actual verified victims….that is really bad news for Winston, NFL, athletes, Univeresities….and even male college students…..any constituancy that is being attacked by the film.

  82. Barry knows all Says:

    Deep Thoughts; Jameis Winston’s the smartest QB ever except for Payton Manning. Jameis Winston’s the most clutch QB ever except for Joe Montana. Why is no team kicking down doors to get to this sure fire Hall of Famer? At very least why haven’t the Bucs locked him up already? Haha I said locked up. Why? Why? Why haven’t the Bucs announced they’ve come to an agreement with Winston’s Agent? Why? Why is Winston being kept under lock and key by his handlers? Why don’t they want #TheCreepyCrab prowling the streets at night alone?

  83. chris k Says:

    Lol! That one was actually kind of funny. Wr huh? Lol… How about this one for jokes.. Let me see if i can do it…. Me trying to run a huddle in football… “Alright guys”! “Huddle up in this circle here” “22 blast right, option zebra 13, option 83 cross”! “Break”! … You’re right Winston lovers! That was almost impossible to do! No way Mariota could ever do that! Lmao!

  84. Josh P Says:


    “rust is also a matter of risk…..
    You might trust someone with a dollar….but $10,000 dollars….maybe no.”

    That analogy doesn’t work with Winston…If you don’t trust Winston because you think he’s going to do something stupid to get suspended and not be available, then why would you trust him in year one vs any other year??? which would actually be the year he has the potential to make the most mistakes and be the least mature in his career..

  85. Senor Mofo Says:

    Can we just cross-breed these guys and get the QB we actually want?

    I wish Marcus was a little more like Jameis. But I wish Jameis was a LOT more like Marcus.

  86. chris k Says:

    Also I almost forgot. Brandt must also be an idiot too right? Everyone who throws their hat into the ring in support of Mariota is an idiot right? Man! This idiot list is starting to get really long!

  87. Tampabaybucfan Says:

    @ Josh P

    I might trust that he can keep his nose clean for a while….but will eventually break….and yes…that is why I wouldn’t pick him.

    Trust is definately measured……you might trust a 6th round pick (Mettenberger) with character questions…..but not a #1 overall pick (Face of the Francise)…..especially when there is an acceptable alternative (Mariota)

  88. feelthepewterpower Says:

    Sounds contradictory

  89. lurker Says:

    –golden earring
    Help, I’m steppin’ into the twilight zone
    Place is a madhouse, feels like being cloned
    My beacon’s been moved under moon and star
    Where am I to go now that I’ve gone too far?

    i agree with senor mofo…

    Senor Mofo Said:
    March 1st, 2015 at 11:35 am

    I’m on board with either.

    I’m not on board with neither.

    We have to take one of these QBs, and we almost certainly will. Trading down is not an option, unless we somehow mastermind some complex multiple-team trade that still allows us to get one of these guys.

    and Senor Mofo Said:
    March 1st, 2015 at 12:13 pm

    The concerns about both QBs are obvious and have been debated ad nauseam. (except)I’d take winston, but I would still welcome mariota.

  90. Tampabaybucfan Says:

    ndog Says:
    March 1st, 2015 at 1:52 pm
    I agree guys Mariota does have skills and they would make him a good slot wideout.

    Thanks….yet another reason to select Mariota…..

    I don’t call people names so I’ll put it this way….your statement is idiotic>>>

  91. Tampabaybucfan Says:

    ndog Says:
    March 1st, 2015 at 1:52 pm
    I agree guys Mariota does have skills and they would make him a good slot wideout.

    Thanks….yet another reason to select Mariota…..

    I don’t call people names so I’ll put it this way….your statement is idiotic>>>

  92. Buccfan37 Says:

    Everybody knows this Winston or Mariota battle is going nowhere. Do the Bucs take the squeaky clean prospect in Mariota or the big question mark that is Winston? The credibility and trust gap is a wide chasm between the two QB’s. Those proclaiming the decision already made is just a guess. There is a lot to like about both of these prospects, but trust is a huge issue in the final decision.

  93. DRAFT #5 Says:

    The thing that I have not seen anyone talk about and what really concerns me about Mariota is that when the games speeds up as it will for him and any other rookie will he revert back to trying to run the ball. As much as he can try to practice taking snaps from under center when the real bullets fly he is going to revert back to what he knows which is running around. This will result in injuries and a lack of production. See RG3, Johnny Football, Tim Tebow and any other spread QB. When they are forced to stay in the pocket they are not the same player and when they try to revert back to running they get injured. Just to many examples to try to ignore them.

    I like the kid but he is a very good college QB just do not see it translating to the NFL

  94. Josh P Says:


    It all comes down to whether you believe his off field issues are a big deal or not… i think they were just stupid immature things that a whole lot of college students do every single year…

    I really think he is going to surprise a lot of people..Winston that is.

  95. Senor Mofo Says:

    Both of these guys are great. Winston has the more dynamic personality, but once they take the field, both are fierce competitors who play the game of football with an intensity that commands respect.

    I don’t trust Winston even one little bit off the field. I don’t completely trust him on the field, either. He threw as many picks against Florida this year as Mariota threw all season. But they still won the game. He’ll be reckless, but I still see him being a winner in the NFL.

    I trust Mariota. He is more precise than Winston in his decision-making, and the speed of his release tells me he will be a very polished NFL QB. Eventually. But I think his first two seasons in the NFL could be some rough sledding.

    On the other hand, it’s all a big crap-shoot, and that’s why everybody debates such things. Most rookie QBs struggle, but a few set the field on fire right out of the gate.

    Winston is impressive, but Mariota’s innate skills are rare.

    Ten teams scored 390 or more points in the regular season last year. Nine had winning records, and eight made the playoffs. We’ve never scored 390 points in the regular season. Ever. And I think the Bucs are ready to join that club.

    Marcus Mariota gives us the best chance to craft a high-powered, up-tempo, quick-strike, step-on-your neck offense, and I think that’s where we want to go.

  96. anthony55 Says:

    Joe this is is nothing new he never flip flop what he just said he is that Mariota is a long term approach He will go to somebody that already has a starting quarterback ( jets Tennessee St Louis) and He will sit one to two years to learn a pro style nfl offense nothing new here Winston all the way Tampa Bay Bucs

    It is something new. Joe talked with Brandt face to face in late January, as was referenced here. –Joe

  97. Buddha Says:

    Trust me, it’s already done. Mariota is the pick. We need to accept that. Joe still is a holdout. As soon as he gets on board, the final obstacle will have been overcome. You can ‘ t pass on the player who is smarter, a better athlete, faster, has a quicker release, and has a much, much higher upside. The experts are coming around. Winston will go between 10 and 20. So interesting how not a single team has shown any interest in trading up to get him.

  98. Buddha Says:

    Immature my a..s. People don’t suddenly mature when paid millions of dollars especially when said immaturity is a sting narcissism and need to be center of attention. You can be sure he will act out again…and again. It’s in his blood. Drafting Winston first would make the franchise the laughing stock of the Nfl.

  99. ndog Says:

    TBBF the best thing about this is we will all see. So please don’t go hide when Mariota is sitting on the bench or playing horribly next year. The odds of him learning at this level are not good but apparently you believe he is so special that he is going to be better than anyone that has ever come before him from a spread system. And he will do all this while whispering the play to his teammates.

  100. Jameisisnotarapist Says:

    Welcome to Tampa Jameis Winston

  101. lurker Says:

    you are wrong buddha.

    winston is smarter and has the higher upside. mariota was sacked a ton and injured much more. where did his speed and athleticism help him then? great, so mariota can read big pictures on the sidelines but when his offense gets shut down he falls apart. where was mariota’s supposed accuracy missing those wide open receivers? smh

  102. lurker Says:

    you can like the second-best qb prospect, i’ll take mr. winston #1 overall.

  103. ndog Says:

    Lurker the worst part is if the Bucs are stupid enough to draft Mariota then we have to listen to these guys AND our team will suck for the next 15 years. Man they better not screw this pick up.

  104. Tampabaybucfan Says:

    @ Josh P.

    I never accused Wiston of rape….I really don’t have much of a problem with the crab let/bb gun incidents….and I do believe much is immaturity.

    I do have a problem with this, however: After the rape allegation…..Winston chose to shout out “FHRITP” in public….this to me, was more than immaturity…..it showed that IMO….Wiston does not care what people think and doesn’t think before he speaks….certainly he was coached up by his attorney not to do such things….in particular it is what he shouted (meme or not)…..it was a direct “in your face” comment highly insensitve to women….it was not just immature…it was stupid. I am very fearful what he will say or do after being granted a huge sum of money.

    Now…you can minimize that an characterize that any way you like but for me, its a huge red flag!!!

  105. Tampabaybucfan Says:


    AOL has left the Huffington Post/SI story of the Winston/Hunting Ground article up for 5 straight days now. Rarely does a story stay up more than 2 days.

    This is an example of how some Internet Media will sensationalize selacious stories.
    This is a forerunner of things to come….not right….but a reality.

    I would provide the link but…..most have read the story right now…..Winton’s Pic is front an center……practically impossible for a sports fan to ignore.

  106. 87ForJameisNOMariota Says:

    “I do have a problem with this, however: After the rape allegation…..Winston chose to shout out “FHRITP” in public….”

    TBBF ..that’s your problem then. For the record it was about a year and a half after the original “incident”. Either way I could care less what he yelled out. He could have yelled out I like M&M’s for all I care…

    So that’s your problem…

  107. 87ForJameisNOMariota Says:

    Who goes to AOL…and who reads the Puffington Post?


  108. Tampabaybucfan Says:

    87ForJameisNOMariota Says:
    March 1st, 2015 at 3:30 pm
    “I do have a problem with this, however: After the rape allegation…..Winston chose to shout out “FHRITP” in public….”

    TBBF ..that’s your problem then. For the record it was about a year and a half after the original “incident”. Either way I could care less what he yelled out. He could have yelled out I like M&M’s for all I care…

    So that’s your problem…

    No…my friend…..I didn’t say it….It’s not my problem

    It is Jameis Winston’s problem…….I’m sure it will help his endorsement list….

  109. TheHuntingGround Says:

    The longest set piece concerns the rape allegation against Jameis Winston, the former Florida State University quarterback. Winston was not charged after a criminal investigation and was found not responsible after a campus hearing in December. The New York Times wrote that the film challenges the National Football League to reconsider drafting him. In the movie his accuser, former FSU student Erica Kinsman, goes public. She says that after drinking a shot at an off-campus bar she started feeling strange: “I’m fairly certain there was something in that drink.” Slipping in and out of consciousness, she says she found herself in a cab with three men—Winston and his roommates—and woke to find him brutally raping her. But the filmmakers fail to note that two toxicology reports found that she had no drugs in her system and little alcohol. They don’t reveal that at the December hearing she did not assert that she was drugged or unconscious. And because Winston is on the record denying the charges, fairness would mean acknowledging this

  110. Tampabaybucfan Says:

    @The Hunting Ground

    “But the filmmakers fail to note that two toxicology reports found that she had no drugs in her system and little alcohol. They don’t reveal that at the December hearing she did not assert that she was drugged or unconscious. And because Winston is on the record denying the charges, fairness would mean acknowledging this”

    Exactly…..not fair….not even attempting to be fair….they legitimize the accuser and place her with actual rape victims etc…….but it is what it is!!1

  111. TheHuntingGround Says:

    The Hunting Ground relentlessly makes the point, for example, that about 20 percent of female college students will be sexually assaulted by classmates. Diane Rosenfeld of Harvard Law School analogizes that if the parents of male students were told their sons had a “1 in 4 or 5 chance” of being a victim of a drive-by shooting at college, Mom and Dad would think twice about sending them. In a Slate piece in December on campus sexual assault, I examined some of the studies underlying this claim, which has long been cited by advocates on this issue. It turns out many of the studies rest on narrow samples or wildly extrapolated numbers. (Even New York Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand, a co-sponsor of proposed legislation on campus sexual assault who appears briefly in the film, quietly took the “1 in 5” statistic off her website in December.) Callie Marie Rennison, co-director of the Criminology and Criminal Justice Research Initiative at the University of Colorado Denver, writing in the New York Times, deplored the idea that students and parents are being bombarded with assertions of “an epidemic where one does not exist.”

  112. Tampabaybucfan Says:

    @ 87

    AOL only has about 4.9 million subscribers….just maybe….the Glazers, Lovie or Licht are among them. Anyone subscribing to AOL is subjected to pop up news articles ….all from Huffington Post….so, there are not just “liberal” readers.

    I appreciate your defense of Winston….because it is certainly needed!!!

  113. Buccfan37 Says:

    87… I dont read Puffington post and never will, but I’m still an antiwar pusher. You CONservatives can wallow in your Limbaugh, Oreilly slimebaths. Like talking to a wall.

  114. TheHuntingGround Says:

    Not only is sexual assault an expected part of the college experience, the filmmakers assert, once it happens victims generally discover that no officials at their schools will take action or even care. These callous, indifferent administrators coddle perpetrators and systematically cover up heinous crimes in an effort to maintain their school’s good—if false—reputation. Occidental College assistant professor of sociology and activist Danielle Dirks says, “Schools are actively and aggressively not wanting to tell the truth about what is going on on their campuses. Because the first campuses to do so will be known as the rape campuses.” (In my article I mention Dirks’ involvement in getting a male freshman expelled from Occidental after he hooked up with a female freshman while both were drunk.)

  115. Tampabaybucfan Says:


    Trying to discredit the “Hunting Ground” will be like trying to kill crabs from your pubics with an ice pick after lighting them on fire (no personal experience here)

    Lots of luck!!!

  116. TheHuntingGround Says:

    The Hunting Ground asserts that even when a victim pushes past the roadblocks and makes a formal report to administrators, it will do no good. Lawyer and activist Colby Bruno says, “The message is clear: It’s don’t proceed through these disciplinary hearings. No matter what you do, you’re not going to win.” The film follows this quote with a graphic showing a paltry number of expulsions of male students at six top schools. But let’s examine this assertion that colleges would rather leave perpetrators unpunished than acknowledge there are any. The higher education insurance group, United Educators, just released a study of 305 sexual assault claims they received from 104 member schools for the three years ending in 2013. I spoke to the organization’s director of risk research, Alyssa Keehan, who said, “The most common narrative you hear is that institutions don’t care about sexual assault. Our data suggests otherwise.” UE’s findings show that when a formal complaint is brought against a student, in 45 percent of the cases he is found responsible. When that happens, more than 80 percent of the time he is given the most severe penalty available—either expulsion or suspension. The study found in 25 percent of the cases the accused is found not responsible. In 23 percent of the cases the school did not adjudicate, not because of a cover-up, but because in the majority of these instances the accuser either asked the school not to investigate, became uncooperative, or could not identify the accused. In the remainder of cases, the accused withdrew from school

  117. Tampabaybucfan Says:

    Speaking for Pablo

    “Pablo thought he’d travel to Tallahassee to check out Potbellies……Pablo has heard so much about loose chicks hanging there…Pablo thought he could score. Pablo yearns to have some “moaning” on a Saturday night. Pablo was disappointed….he offered to buy many chicas drinks….none accepted….Pablo checked his breath & underarms….no smell there…..Pablo thinks the Winston publicity has killed good times for more than just Pablo”

  118. Luther Says:

    Put on some cleats Pablo and act like you play sports for FSU. You will get more action than you can handle.

  119. Pickgrin Says:

    If Winston is the best QB now (which is obvious) – then he is very likely to be the best QB “for long range” as well. Duh. Your (lack of) logic escapes me Mr. Brandt.

  120. Tampabaybucfan Says:


    “Pablo left his sombrero at home….wore his leather chaps. Pablo thinks he looks like a jock….but Pablo suffers from illusions about his appearance. Pablo gets plenty of attention at Mons…but Pablo has to pay for that. Pablo thinks that with all he spent in time & gas to go to Potbellies, Pablo would have been better off at Mons. Pablo will buy Luther a table dance for giving Pablo good advice”

  121. Tampabaybucfan Says:

    Pickgrin Says:
    March 1st, 2015 at 5:12 pm
    If Winston is the best QB now (which is obvious) – then he is very likely to be the best QB “for long range” as well. Duh. Your (lack of) logic escapes me Mr. Brandt.

    Pickgrin, you are one of the more reasonable Winston supporters….so, I’ll take a stab at answering your question. And, since Brandt wasn’t probed on his opinion, we may not really know the answer….perhaps he will elaborate later.

    I think it is a matter of degrees between the two QBs vs. upside potential. Perhaps Brandt thinks Winston is very close to his ceiling already….and Mariota has a longer-haul higner season.
    But….I think its more of a comfort level for him based on the off-field risks between the two (at this stage). I believe he thinks that Mariota poses a safer long-term proposition.
    But…I think it is possible to think one could be better short run & one long run.
    Maybe it’s a bad analogy…but what if you had a choice of two women for marriage….one was really gorgeous….and the other just attractive…..maybe the 10 would be great for a year….but perhaps the 8 would be better for the long run.
    Here’s where that analogy excites me……We have a choice of either!!! And damn well better choose one!!!

  122. Tampabaybucfan Says:

    higher ceiling….not season

  123. Connor Says:

    All I can say is that they better do their effin homework and draft the right quarterback. This franchise can’t afford to draft another bust at quarterback.

  124. Nybucsfan Says:

    I think FSU fans will always stick up for the hunting ground. no one wants to admit they won with a rapist. The say she lies. Let’s talk FSU and the police. If the did there job got the video from the bar or talked to the cab driver and it showed she was Impaired. That would mean jameis would be in jail. How convenient they didn’t get them in time. If impaired it’s not longer consensual.

  125. lurker Says:

    “Pablo….wore his leather chaps.”

    perhaps pablo went to the wrong bar? 😉

  126. Dave Pear Says:

    She did go to the hospital and had an exam.
    They came back with two different semen samples and no signs of any drugs (date rape or otherwise) and a .04 BAC.
    Which equates to NOT intoxicated.
    There are many, many holes in this young lady’s story.
    And I am not an FSU homer.
    Quite the contrary, I’m a UF alum.
    Get a grip and embrace the future.
    Winston will be a Buccaneer in 2015.
    Have fun rooting the Jaguars.
    I, for one will not miss you.

  127. lurker Says:

    nybucsfan, nothing anyone could say or show you would change your hate-filled mind.

    the witness statements, toxicology report, blood alcohol report, etc states she was impaired. smh

    you are just being silly, again, as usual.

  128. lurker Says:

    *she was NOT impaired…lol

  129. Luther Says:

    Not only was Pablo at the wrong bar with chaps, I think he was emulating the wrong number 5.

  130. Tampabaybucfan Says:

    Connor Says:
    March 1st, 2015 at 5:53 pm
    All I can say is that they better do their effin homework and draft the right quarterback. This franchise can’t afford to draft another bust at quarterback.

    My hope is that neither is a mistake……

    If the Bucs do this right….we will be able to support either choice….and as happens in Political races…..look for the race to tighten toward the draft….especiallly if there is no new info on the two.

  131. WS99 Says:

    Where should I begin?

  132. lurker Says:

    at the end, that is best with a lot of comments…

  133. Tampabaybucfan Says:

    @luther & lurker

    Speaking fo Pablo

    “Pablo gets Luther & Lurker confused….but Pablo is easily confused….Pablo will leave the chaps behind…the last time Pablo scored wearing them he was in the back seat of Pablo’s chevy & Pablo noticed “she” had an adams apple….Pablo aborted the mission immediately. Pablo isn’t confused over the number 5 and hopes he isn’t confused about the number 8 next year…..Pablo hopes the old number 8 does well elsewhere”

  134. Nybucsfan Says:

    Lol you have the report that said she wasn’t drunk? That’s not the point is it’s convenient they didn’t get them. Point is do your job don’t cover things up. The report said she didnt have any drugs in her system. Nothing about her blood alcohol level what several hours later.

  135. WS99 Says:

    Bottom line is this, everybody scared. JW could just as easily turn into Warrick Dunn and Derrick Brooks as he can Jack the Ripper. Y’all scared and that’s why we’ll be a 2-14 team FOR THE LONG RUN. It’s a damn shame really.

  136. Tampabaybucfan Says:

    OK……NYbucsfan…..enough of the rapist argument…….you did well for a few days and now have reverted to your old self.

    I welcome all opinions to the debate….but the rape allegation has enough publicity that causes harm without having to constantly read it here.

    Here is one Mariota fan that doesn’t believe the allegations and will support Winston if he is the choice.

    You have dug yourself into a deep hole here if Winston is selected….

  137. Pickgrin Says:

    TBBF – I appreciate the attempt – and its not as if I didn’t understand the implication – I just happen to think its a dumb premise so i formed my response in the form of a simple statement/question that succinctly points that out.

    To suggest that the better NFL QB now has maybe reached or come close to reaching his ceiling (at 21 years old and with only 2 years of starting experience) is pretty laughable since it is now widely known that he has one of the best football minds of any QB who has ever come out of College to the NFL. Jameis is just getting started and his potential “ceiling” is literally higher than any of us could even dream of or hope for.

    But since that guy has made a handful of immature bad decisions (none of which would have caused him to miss even 1 NFL game mind you) everyone should be scared to death that he will mess up bad and blow up the franchise.

    There is another choice who is a good boy and whose worst decision was going 30 miles over the speed limit – So maybe we should take the other guy who is less polished and almost certainly not pro ready yet – because he’s a good athlete with a decent arm who is also smart so he can “probably” learn over time what the better prospect already knows and can show on the field day 1 – Oh and did I mention he was a good boy?….

    That type of thinking (RIP Mr Spock) is quite illogical.

    In all honesty – which sounds like the tougher task:

    – convincing an obviously ready for the NFL QB that he has to keep his nose clean – because even though he has all the talent in the world – if he doesn’t continue to consistently make mature decisions – that the well being of all his teammates and coaches and the entire franchise as well as tens of Millions in personal rewards for his skills are at stake….


    – teaching a talented College athlete how to become an NFL QB.

  138. Nybucsfan Says:

    @ dave her blood BAC .04 what six seven hours later. I would bet everyone one on here if it was someone they knew or loved wouldn’t be ok with them not getting the video or investigating it the next day

  139. WS99 Says:

    Mattenburger, Manning, Rothlisburger – all got the benefit of the doubt or absolutely no coverage what so ever.

    Winston is a rapist thug hoodlum even though there not one shred of evidence.

    And please know that your perfect moral wonder Russell Wilson is “dating” some scant iggy azalia wanna-be porn star. I guess it’s just his good side that’s wonderful.

    Btw I have a story to tell that I think is hilarious.

  140. lurker Says:

    where is the evidence of a coverup, nybucsfan? there is evidence that erica kinsman was not intoxicated, impaired, or drugged.

  141. WS99 Says:

    On second thought. I think I’ll just beat my head on. A wall for a while.

  142. lurker Says:

    nybucsfan is just trolling.

    I would bet everyone one on here if it was someone they knew or loved wouldn’t be ok with being guilty before proven innocent or being falsely accused.

  143. Nybucsfan Says:

    @ Luther who told you that Jameis? I know this is the hunting ground fan club. Even Rick stroud thinks he now has some things to answer as does SI. There is another side you elect not to hear. You can say he wasn’t charged and you would be right. But he wasn’t charged by the people who elected to not do there job and that’s also a fact.

  144. Nybucsfan Says:

    Luther are you a FSU fan?

  145. Tampabaybucfan Says:

    @ Pickgrin

    Thanks for the response…..keep in mind, I’m simply trying to explain Brandt’s possible reasoning…not mine.

    I think what we are talking about here are degrees….

    You say…teach a talented college athelete to be an NFL quarterback….
    I believe this greatly understates Mariota’s ability and readiness….don’t we have to do that with every college draftee?…..you don’t even consider Mariota a good college QB….rather simply an athelete…..
    So, we will be far apart on our opinions of the two.
    You can also bundle (as you have) all of Winston’s off-field issues into a “past tense” lack of maturity….and make it sound like it’s a slam dunk to coach that up….”take one for the team and act like the face of the francise”….that didn’t seem to work well for FSU…..oh yes…sure they won…I forgot.

    So….it’s a matter of degrees…..and opinion about those degrees.

  146. Dave Pear Says:

    What story do you have to tell?
    I love hilarious.
    And before I forget…give me back my car Barry!

  147. Luther Says:

    I am a football fan of Florida teams. I didn’t go to any of the schools. I just like watching good football. I hate people who abuse women but when I see a person change their story as much as this case, I have to question it. Having not been charged or even punished for any involvement is the clincher for me.

    The guy is going to play for someone, why not the Bucs. There are guys in the league who were actually convicted of crimes with less talent and people want to pass on a guy who is a super talent that was not charged. I’ve seen people here calling for Vick to wear a Buc’s jersey but not Winston. Makes no sense to me.

  148. lurker Says:

    do you mean lurker and not luther?

    i have no affiliation to fsu or uf.

    “But he wasn’t charged by the people who elected to not do there job and that’s also a fact.”

    do you know the definition of fact and opinion? based on your quote above, i would say you do not. just because you say something is “fact” does not make it so.

    what evidence do you have that there was a cover-up or that “people elected not to do their job”? mistakes do not equate to purposeful nor to your implication of coverup. do you subscribe to the nytimes.com or its publication?

  149. Tampabaybucfan Says:

    I would be great with Winston….but since we tanked the last game, we have a choice.
    One anylist said they “didn’t envy the Bucs”…..that is perhaps why….either choice they make will be challenged by the Buc fanbase.
    I am hopeful that things come together in the next two months and we can all be excited with the choice.
    I can only hope that most want it to be a QB.
    Imagine if we were picking 2nd…..sloppy seconds?….perhaps…but our hands would be tied….would we really try to trade up for one of them…..we’ll never know.

  150. lurker Says:

    another article questioning the nytimes hit-piece.


  151. Luther Says:

    She said she was drugged: False
    She said she was drunk: False
    She said she was hit in the head: False
    She said couldn’t remember who he was: False
    She even said she couldn’t remember much of anything yet she remembers him assaulting her.

    Facts don’t line up with testimony and facts presented. All this media driven attention is based on her account which has been proven false over and over again.

    Lurker and I are not the same person, we just come to the same conclusion.

    Draft Winston

  152. Tampabaybucfan Says:


    The only problem with the article is the subject….Winston/Allegations……

    Unfortunately…even an article defending Winston keeps the subject in the news…what you want is for it to completely go away.

    This is a PR nightmare that the Bucs will have to address head-on if Winston is their choice….not saying they should shy away from him because of the allegation or negative publicity but be prepared to address it.

    Earlier, it was brought up that Mettenberger, Manning & Rothlesburger didn’t face such a media storm….there are some differences……Rothlesburger pleaded guilty and that somewhat ended the issue…also…6th round pick.
    Manning was many years ago and the media was a bit different then and Rothlesburger was pre-Ray Rice, Hardy et.al…..
    The NFL Ray Rice abuse scandal really heightened the sensitivity out there and the feminists and others that are sensitive to that are on the warpath.
    Winston, unfortunately was, and is, literally at the wrong place at the wrong time…

  153. Tampabaybucfan Says:

    Sorry….Mettinburger pleaded guilty…

  154. Nybucsfan Says:

    No I’m going off a quote from Florida state attorney meggs had look it up he says they missed the basics of an investigation

  155. Pickgrin Says:

    Tampabaybucfan Says:
    March 1st, 2015 at 7:12 pm
    @ Pickgrin

    “You… make it sound like it’s a slam dunk to coach that up….”take one for the team and act like the face of the francise”….that didn’t seem to work well for FSU…..oh yes…sure they won…I forgot.”

    That’s a hell of a thing to “forget”.

    Ask Jimbo Fisher if he wishes he’d never had to deal with the “headache” that is Jameis Winston – LOL

    Without Winston FSU does not have what is now the premier College football program in the nation. Without Winston – there would be no 26 game winning streak. Without Winston – there would be NO National Championship! Withoutt Winston – Jimbo does not automatically get a juicy raise and additional years of job security.

    Ask Jimbo if it was worth it to have Winston leading his team for 2 years even though he was making a few bad and immature off field decisions along the way.

    I suggest that if you are truly interested in finding out more about your Buccaneers likely future QB (which I believe you are TBBF) that you do some research and find out as much as you can about what Coach Fisher directly had to say about his QB all along the way.

  156. Tampabaybucfan Says:

    @ Pickgrin

    Wow…struck a nerve….

    I am merely trying to point out that IMHO….Mariota & Winston are closer on-field ability than they are with off-field questions…

    And…the off-field questions will be answered successfuly by the Bucs if Winston is the choice….so I won’t need to dig back into Winston’s past.

    I could say in return that perhaps you could see what Helfrich/Kelly have to say about Mariota’s QB ability and how it might transfer to the NFL….or if they, like you just think he is a great college athelete that might be able to be coached into being a good NFL QB.

  157. Tampabaybucfan Says:

    @ Pickgrin

    You have a choice….you can debate with NYBucsfan…….a constant Winston rape accuser..and, by the way, if I were a Winston defender, I would ignore his posts completely because it simply keeps the topic relevant.

    Or….with TBBF

    Someone who has attacked NYBucfan for his comments…..acknowledged Winston’s obvious NFL readiness & skillset…..admitted I would be a strong supporter if he is our pick…..insisted we shoud, at the very least choose one of them. Is comfortable letting the process go forward and confident in the final outcome.
    But….points out the PR nightmare that the Bucs face….explains why it exists….desribes it as totally unfair to Winston….empathizes with Winston supporters and never calls names or insults them.

    Or….you can continute to debate with both of us….or neither.

  158. Pickgrin Says:

    TBBF – You are mis reading me. I think Mariota is an excellent QB prospect. I think he is likely among the top 10 best QB prospects in the last 10 years. If Jameis Winston had stayed in school and Mariota was the only good QB option and we could get him – I would be thrilled to have his talent level at QB compared to what we have been working with the last 2 years. I think Mariota is quite likely to succeed in the NFL and I wouldn’t hesitate to take him if Winston was not on the board.

    But Winston is on the board and he is literally one of the best QBs I have EVER seen play the game in College. Everything about him – his skills and his arm and his size and his accuracy and anticipation – his incredible football knowledge and his very effective mobility and his fiery positive leadership – and his experience excelling in a system that is very much like what Koetter will be running.

    Call those accolades a lovefest or a man crush or whatever you want – but I’m tellin ya – this kid is a SPECIAL Quarterback. He is right there with Andrew Luck as either the best or second best QB coming out in the last 10 years. And if the Bucs pass on him because they are concerned about behavior issues – then we will all look back in 2 or 3 or 4 years when he is tearing it up for another team and say – damn – how could we have possibly let a guy with that much talent and ability get away when all we had to do was write his name down…

    So since you aren’t interested in looking up what I suggested – for the benefit of you and who ever else might care – I offer up a couple quotes by Winston’s coach – Jimbo Fisher:

    Fisher, who has been a quarterbacks coach, offensive coordinator or head coach for 27 years, said he has never coached a player with the level of football intelligence that Winston possesses.

    “Jameis, in football intellect, intelligence level, is as smart as anybody I’ve ever been around,” Fisher said on NFL Network. “You can do so many different things with him and he grasps it. He just doesn’t memorize plays, he understands the concepts of how to attack the coverage, how a play works, where his one-on-one matchups are. He just has a tremendous football intellect that way.”

    Fisher said that Winston’s study habits are particularly impressive.

    “Every night, Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, we get off the practice field, he eats his dinner at 6:45, and then he’s up here in the offices until 9:30, 10, 10:30 at night,” Fisher said. “He would sit and watch every practice tape and then prepare for red zone, third down, whatever it might be. A lot of guys are very talented but he likes to understand the game.”
    Q. Can you talk about the quarterback
    that you’ve got, and what it says about him as a
    person and how he’s able to shield all the stuff
    that goes around like what happened this week,
    still come out on game day, and have a big game
    What does it say about him mentally?

    JIMBO FISHER: He’s elite, he’s special,
    he’s different than anybody I’ve ever been around.
    It’s that simple. And he cares about his teammates,
    and he can compartmentalize. When he has a job
    to do and people counting on him, that’s what a
    man does. And when you know the truth and you
    know the facts, you can put your head on the
    pillow at night and go to sleep, and I’m blessed to
    be a part of his life. I know that.

  159. Nybucsfan Says:

    I don’t trust anything Jimbo says about any QB name a good first round QB he put in the NFL. Before any one bring up Oregon QB past I don’t think the coach has had a first round QB yet so your basing your opinion on the spead system. I would argue one of the best if not best QB in the NFL came out of the spread.

  160. Tampabaybucfan Says:

    @ Pickgrin

    Thanks for the quotes…..and I don’t doubt them at all…I’m sure what his coach thinks will go a long way toward influencing the Bucs.
    Thank you for providing your opinion on Mariota.
    When all this started, I was 70-30 Mariota….now I am about 55-45 and I have been there for a while. The narrowing isn’t because I have less faith in Mariota…but have warmed up to the idea of Winston because of his skills.

    Lets leave it at this….we are lucky to be able to choose between the two. And we should choose one of them.

  161. BoJim Says:

    jody Says:

    Got to be Mariota! He’s a bigger faster version of Russel Wilson. How many picks did Winston throw compared to Mariota? Worst O line in the league and the holes fans want a statue QB?

    Can MM throw from the pocket like Wilson? And Winston can move in the pocket and escape if he needs to. There’s lots of tape showing that.

  162. Pickgrin Says:

    “we are lucky to be able to choose between the two. And we should choose one of them.”

    Agreed 100%. And rest assured they will.

    I’m not so sure it was “luck” though as I am of the opinion that (with McCown’s help) Lovie intentionally lost at minimum the last 3 games to put us in this position….

  163. Erik with CleanAthletics.com Says:


  164. lurker Says:


    you don’t trust anything pro-winston. again, there is not one thing anyone can say or show you that will stop your hate of winston. it is an unhealthy hate you have that is fixated right now on winston but will, and has, manifested on some other object.

    and who is your “best qb in the nfl” right now? wilson? lmao

  165. Erik with CleanAthletics.com Says:

    This detailed account of the combine interviews for Winston and Mariota makes it pretty obvious that Mariota is the right choice…..

    Marcus Mariota’s interviews

    “I had the impression, and I don’t know why, maybe because he’s a little bit of a quiet demeanor, that [Mariota] is kind of maybe a bit of a wallflower type, and he’s anything but,” Chris Landry said. “You can tell he’s very competitive, very organized. [..] What was really impressive is he knew all the coaches’ names, and I’m not talking the head coach, I’m talking the position coaches, so he’d done his homework in obviously knowing who was who, who did what, who coached what, he had a lot of good reference stuff. He asked a bunch of questions, he took notes.

    “The biggest thing I got with [Mariota] was his competitive fire. He was very focused, very intense, you know he listened intently, he knew about the teams’ personnel. I mean you know, in the NFL, the teams that were interviewing. He knew about a lot of their sets, the players that were on it, he knew a lot about their offensive systems.

    “He was extremely good on the grease board. When they put him and put NFL stuff on it it’s a lot more detailed and complex than what you see on some of the TV skits that they do. He was really good with that. He understands the difference, a lot of the differences of the concepts in the college game, was very good at explaining that. And yet you could tell he spent a lot of team studying NFL systems.

    “Wasn’t very interested in talking about what he was good at. That was really intriguing. He talked more about what he needed to improve on. He didn’t think he was good at, you know, experience under center and whatnot, and he showed he even brought in a tape of what he’s been working on and asking some feedback from the coaches. Theis guy really gets it, you can tell he has that gymrat approach to it, the ‘Don’t tell me what I can do good, tell me what I can do better’ type of approach.”

    Jameis Winston’s interviews

    “Winston [..] is a different kind of personality, you can tell he’s kind of the life of the party, came in, very bubbly, which is kind of what I expected. You could tell different leadership styles. He was more calculating in his comments, of course he had different questions to answer off the field, and some of them were really intent and some of them didn’t get to much of the football stuff.

    “He was you know, uncomfortable discussing some of his past. And let me say this too, there were a few people in that meeting, I think he’s gonna be a little more forthcoming when he meets a one-on-one or a one-on-two-or-three with the Bucs or anyone else that’s gonna meet with him. There’s still too many people in there, it’s not like a media setting of course, but you know some of that stuff was a little bit uncomfortable for him to get into. Yet an interesting answer to the crab legs incident, which I’m not gonna go into details, but I thought it was interesting and a little unusual.

    “But he was not that forthcoming on the sexual assault incident, but I understand that and I understand that there’s a chance of a civil trial possibly coming, so you’ve gotta be real careful about that. Which I’m sure in a private setting maybe again he can have more conversations on that.

    “I thought he was good on the grease board. I thought learning football was never an issue with him, I never thought. He knows his system pretty well, he was not as familiar with what some of the other teams were doing at least in the meetings there but that’s okay. It’s something that I think he’s gonna be able to learn. Whatever you teach him, I think he’ll work at. I think he was more prepared for trying to address the off-the-field stuff than the on-the-field.

    “[..] I was a little bit concerned and verified that he did weigh 252 lbs. in the bowl game. He went up to like 266 lbs. when he wasn’t working out with the ankle [injury] and he wasn’t working out. See these guys have to take in a high level of caloric intake and when you can’t work out, which he couldn’t, weight went up. Now he was 231 lbs. at the combine which shows he can maneuver his body, but the biggest thing is he’s going to have to improve his diet.

    “Now the way that’s going to work the strength coach [..] is gonna take his body fat and say ‘We want you at 238 lbs.’ or whatever it is, and I don’t see that’s gonna be a big issue. But it would be a big issue if you don’t watch it, because he’s got kind of a lower body, very thick trunk and listen, if you sit there and you don’t work and you continue to have the same caloric intake your weight’s gonna balloon. But I don’t see that being an issue because I think he’s going to continue to work. When you have injuries and rehab and injuries that’s gonna be a real problem and you’re gonna have to work with that.

    “Baseball. Here’s my sense, he was very careful with what he said, the sense is with teams that it’s gonna be a factor in the negotiations because why wouldn’t it be. If I had baseball in my background and it was a threat, whoever takes him it’s going to be a factor.”

  166. Tampabaybucfan Says:

    @ Pickgrin

    Not lucky the last couple of games…but there are many early in the season we should have won….even the first two.

    Also…..Winston & Mariota both declared…..

    So….fortunate would be the word…..same results…

  167. Pickgrin Says:

    Erik – Perhaps if Landry was a “neutral” observer – this would mean something. But having listened to Landry twice recently on the big poodle’s show – he is clearly extremely pro-Mariota and somewhat anti-Winston.

    Even with that – its not like he said Mariota killed it and Winston sucked in what you posted here. Reports from other sources said Winston and Mariota both did very, very well in their scheduled interviews.

  168. Nybucsfan Says:

    I didn’t even bring up Winston name I said Jimbo has not put a good QB in the NFL just 1 round bust and no Rogers but I like Wilson also in the Super Bowl the last two years nothing to laugh at

  169. lurker Says:

    comeon now nybucsfan. so you bringing up jimbo had no implication on winston. who are you trying to convince?

    and wilson would be nowhere without beast-mode to assist.

  170. lurker Says:

    via espn article 1/18/2012 by tom luginbill

    “The key for NFL coaches and scouts when evaluating spread quarterbacks is to figure out how intricate their spread offense was. How complex were the protections and blitz-pickup principles? What were they asked to do at the line of scrimmage? Could they hit their intermediate and deep passes when those plays were called? That is why Baylor QB Robert Griffin III has become such a hot commodity. While he plays in a variation of the spread, he can also make all the intermediate throws and is the best deep-ball thrower in college football.

    Behind closed doors, there are probably a lot of offensive coaches in the NFL who would love to have the dynamic threat of a player like Cam Newton at quarterback. There are some creative things you can do with players like that. But in a league where elite quarterback play is at a premium, most coaches are going to be fearful of jeopardizing the health of the most important player on their roster. The risk of injury is high for quarterbacks to begin with, never mind when you ask him to take even more direct shots as a runner.

    The bottom line is this: While NFL quarterbacks are becoming more and more athletic, we are a long way from seeing a college-style spread offense dominate at the pro level.”

    Tom Luginbill is ESPN’s national director of football recruiting, played quarterback at Georgia Tech and Eastern Kentucky, and spent 11 years in professional football as a coach and scout prior to joining ESPN in 2005.

  171. lurker Says:

    also next to that article was the top espnu qb recruits for 2012. #1 was jameis winston. seems like winston has done it all.

    Tom Luginbill, ESPN’s national director of football recruiting, breaks down the different QB styles of the top Class of 2012 high school signal-callers in Alabama, California, Ohio, Pennsylvania and Texas.

    Top QB: Jameis Winston, Hueytown
    ESPNU QB Rank: No. 1
    HS Offense Run: Spread
    College Commitment: Florida State
    College Offense Run: Multiple (balanced scheme that features some combination of spread and shotgun with multiple formations and personnel groups)
    The Lowdown: Winston is a dual-threat quarterback who can beat you with his arm and his legs. He’s an excellent improviser and possesses a “gamer” mentality.

  172. lurker Says:


    “There are certain guys you just don’t want to play against. It’s not just ‘Can he do it?’ But there are certain guys you don’t want to play against. When you (“NFL AM” co-host Eric Davis) played with Joe (Montana), if Joe got the ball at the end of the game, what was gonna happen? Your team was gonna win. That’s what this guy does.” — Florida State coach Jimbo Fisher, when speaking about Winston on NFL Network’s “NFL AM”on Wednesday.

  173. Nybucsfan Says:

    Your quote of the week is from a guy that can’t help QB transfer to the NFL. Clearly he knows how to cover there faults. See his last three first round QB picks. But hay it’s ok Winston only has like ten red flags

  174. Dave Pear Says:

    You wake up in a bad mood.
    Your life has to be so miserable.

  175. Nybucsfan Says:

    Drew Brees biggest qb red flag at the combine. Winston at 20 % body fat it’s the most important day of your life and that’s the kind of shape you get in for it.

  176. Nybucsfan Says:

    I’m actually always in a good mood. I’ll go out of my way to help anyone. Not a fan of bad people/selfishness. Huge fan of players like David or McCoy great players good even better people.

  177. BRoy34isdonewithMorons Says:

    hey nybucsfan how many oregon qbs has kelly translated….oh thats right ZERO

  178. lurker Says:


  179. White Tiger Says:

    FSU fanboys telling me that Kid Fameis = Joe Montana make me puke.

    This is getting out of hand. Please, tell the dolts that Jimbo Fisher isn’t really a non-biased talent evaluator. Because Mark Helfrich would very likely contradict ol’ Jimbo…see one of them did NOT recruit Kid Fameis, and the OTHER one did not recruit the kid that BEAT Kid Fameis…

    The kid is a pocket passer, and for that, you have to have a pocket.

    We do not, and you will NOT find one in this draft. Because there isn’t a tackle in THIS ENTIRE draft that is ranked as a number 1 overall pick…which is what you need to protect a Kid Fameis in this league.

    There are only a few teams that could pick Kid Fameis and be able to win games immediately…but since both of the first one’s I can think of already have Peyton Manning and Tom Brady playing Kid Fameis position…you can see that ZERO teams have the ability to draft Kid Fameis and WIN immediately with him.

    The Bucs would at the very least require one more top 5 draft pick to get match him to the type of Left Tackle he will need to protect him at the next level…

    We’ve only been looking for THAT tandem since the franchise began…