March 22nd, 2014

Could Lovie deny his DNA if Khalil Mack is available?

Make no mistake, mild mannered, God-fearing Lovie Smith wants a defense that busts people in the mouth, takes no prisoners, pursues the football like Joe hunts beer on sweltering July afternoons, and runs to the football in unison until the whistle blows.

Those are indisputable facts.

Yes, Lovie’s a defensive guy. And just like Joe thinks Lovie has the wisdom to seize a chance to grab a potentially great quarterback with the No. 7 overall pick in the 2014 NFL Draft, he could be more driven to jack up the intensity of his defense.

With this in mind, Joe wants to share this excellent Path to the Draft analysis of soon-to-be first round draft picks Khalil Mack and Anthony Barr. The linebackers/DEs are both considered can’t-miss players.

The NFL Network discussion of the violence with which Mack plays really intrigued Joe.

Mack seems like the kind of guy that could return the long lost swagger to the Bucs’ defense, even help draw out a new edge and a new level of greatness from the Bucs’ current mild-mannered crop of defensive stars, like Alterraun Verner, Lavonte David, Gerald McCoy and Michael Johnson.

Joe wonders whether a shot at Mack would be too exciting for Lovie to pass up. Sometimes you can’t win a battle against your DNA.

58 Responses to ““Violence!””

  1. BucFanForever Says:

    I want them both so badly. Both Johnny football and Khalil Mack. I know it has about 0% chance of happening, but it is only March, let me dream.

  2. BucFanForever Says:

    With both of them, then we have a chance with an offense that is capable of winning, and an exciting, dominant defense.

  3. Jordan Says:

    I would take Barr over Clowney. Everyone says “freak” about Clowney, but Barr ran a 4.44 at his pro day and is only 1/2″ shorter and 10 lbs lighter.

  4. SAMCRO Says:

    Plus, Mack or Barr would contribute right away, where if we draft a QB, he may just end up holding a clipboard for the whole season. We need playmakers that can hit the ground running. Whether it’s a WR, TE, DE, LB it should come down to best player available, other than QB, with our first pick. We can pickup a quality QB in later rounds.

  5. Eric Says:

    You plug Mack, Clowney or Barr into that group we got and it would be nasty. Potentially like the old days.

    Great take Joe, Lovie might not be able to resist it.

    Really couldn’t blame him.

  6. tmaxcon Says:

    Mack would be my choice his versatility would give Lovie / Frazier tremendous flexibility. I like the fact he can drop back in coverage is huge. I like Mason foster a lot but the dude can’t cover anything. I think all you need to know about Clowney is that Spurrier has not came out in his defense about taking plays off etc…

    Personally I am hoping for a trade down which is much harder than most realize.

    Joe what’s your gut say about C.J. Mosely being available with bucs second round pick???

  7. Scottyboyoz Says:

    Hell yeah!! this guy has to be a BUC if he is there at 7. He will change a game by himself… I predict double digit sacks first season on the Tampa Bay roster. I can only pray he falls but I highly doubt it.

  8. Robbie_G Says:

    Joe, once again I comes to the CAN’T MISS vs the ” Possible, maybe” franchise QB. Do they try and reach for the grand slam qb, or the home run defender

  9. BucsQcCity Says:

    Pro day 40 is hand clock. Barr seems has all the tools but Mack has the rage..

    My draft preference:
    Defense: Clowney>Mack>donald>barr


    We need speed, high motor, health. The only ones I would meh at # would be evans and barr becaus at #10 they probably are still on the board

  10. Jordan Says:

    Barr’s 40 at pro day was electronically timed.

  11. finishers Says:

    I would do it! not sold on any of these QBs but that’s just me.

  12. BucsQcCity Says:


    interesting.. Any Link to this info?

  13. Biff Barker Says:

    Love both of these guys, but I still see them as perfectly suited for a 3-4 team.
    Steven Means is a poor man’s Mack from Buffalo as well. Does he make the team this year?

  14. tmaxcon Says:

    no such thing as “Cant miss” Ryan leaf was can’t miss too… Can’t miss is like the word Sorry way overused and carries no meaning.

    The draft is a calculated gamble that’s all. I personally like next years QB class however, I hope we are drafting in mid to high 20’s which would put the bucs out of reach for one of the top rated qb’s next year. I just can’t buy into any of the QB’s this year too much risk with 2 and I am not a huge fan of brdigewater.

    if mack is available at 7 snag him.

  15. passthebuc Says:

    Tackling ability sets Mack apart from Barr, not to mention explosiveness. However Mack did not play against the Talent.

    Like always, on paper they are both cant miss but we don’t play this game on paper.

    Again, this is an incredible deep draft. Trading down for more picks would be my move. But what do I know????????

  16. flmike Says:

    I’ve been pimping for Mack since day one of the off season, this kid is a beast and maybe he can motivate his old college team mate Steven Means.

  17. Jordan Says:

    I wouldn’t be so sure that Barr is sitting there at #10. If the Jags, Browns, Raiders, Bucs, and Vikings don’t draft a QB in the first 8 picks, then who is going to draft Teddy, Johnny, Blake, and David. The better teams at the bottom of the draft usually have holes to fill, but spending a 1st rounder on a backup QB is probably not ideal. The top 10 teams can draft OL, TE, WR, and Defensive players knowing that there is a good chance that the later teams aren’t going to draft a backup QB in the 1st round. This exact scenario was played out in last year’s draft.

  18. Jordan Says:

    BucsQcCity – Joe doesn’t like links – but if you search Anthony Barr Pro day you will see that it was specifically mentioned that his 40 yard dash was timed electronically. He also increased his bench press to 19 reps.

  19. Biff Barker Says:

    FL Mike, still my biggest issue is how much time these two have spent at the LOS, hand in the dirt against major conference teams. We are a 4-3 team! Can’t disagree on this year’s crop of QB’s slated to go in the first.

  20. Tampabaybucfan Says:

    Joe…you listed LVD twice in your article….(he deserves it)…..we need to add a big time thumper to our D….Almost certainly Barr or Mack will be there at 7…..we might trade down to 8 or 10 and still get Barr.
    Don’t think Clowney will be there or my pick…Sammy @ 7.

  21. JGM 2.0 Says:

    “help draw out a new edge and a new level of greatness from the Bucs’ current mild-mannered crop of defensive stars, like Alterraun Verner, Lavonte David, Michael Johnson and Lavonte David.”

    We have two Lavonte Davids now?

    Awesome! We are sure to have a top ranked defense with both of them!

  22. Mcnabb to Barber Says:

    Yes please.

  23. Teddy Says:

    JGM, Lavonte David is so good he gets mentioned twice.

  24. JGM 2.0 Says:

    True David is a beast. I am sure Joe meant to put Gerald McCoy there.

  25. Buc1987 Says:

    2 Lavonte David’s. That’s just Joe over-exaggerating again.

  26. Architek Says:

    I would love Mack in new pewter! Here’s the thing about it – you still can get a QB and WR and Guard that could all contribute highly to the team next year. Passing on a talent like Mack would be bad but I can’t lie that Watkins would be nice too.

    But with the Raiders trading for Schaub that almost promises they take a WR to add to their losing formula.

    I will be happy with whomever they select – I trust our leadership exclusively!

  27. Oregon Buc Says:

    If we do more cloning we will have a top 5 defense!! I think it is defense in 1 and offense in 2.

  28. Martinii Says:

    I really feel that Lovie will take the best athlete especially after the needs he filled in FA. Whoever drops to seven. Best QB, OT, WR, or Pass Rusher. I am partial to Mack, but would sleep well with any of the above. I do have a problem with Daniels or Ebron unless we trade down.

  29. b.Bruce Says:

    McNabb to barber, that is my favorite play in bucks history.love the name I just might steal it for my own.

  30. Buc1987 Says:

    48 more days until the draft!

  31. Steve from Oregon Says:

    Mack reminds me a little bit of Hardy Nickerson. ..mean and nasty

  32. Macabee Says:

    Atlanta has picked up Nose Tackle Paul Soliai and DE/OLB Tyson Jackson in FA leading analysts to suspect that DC Nolan is going to a 3-4 defense. I’m seeing more mocks with Atlanta taking Kalil Mack. He is a perfect stand up DE/OLB that can also cover. It will cost a King’s ransom to trade up for Clowney. If this is true, I don’t think Mack gets past Atlanta. The rap on Barr is unimpeded he is a ferocious pass rusher, but when blocked he does not shed blocks well which is why he sometimes misses tackles in the run game!

    If I were to take a guess based on Bucs interest, I would say Aaron Donald. The Bucs interviewed Donald at the Senior Bowl again at the Combine and have scheduled an on-site visit. However, they also have an on-site visit scheduled for DE Dee Ford/Auburn. So your guess is as good as mine!

  33. Patrick in VA Says:

    So now the Bucs doing what you want them to do is “wisdom”? Isn’t the value of a draft generally assessed a few years after the draft took place? It’s interesting to see how you guys have become so impressed with yourselves

  34. Kalind Says:

    Again, I’m really low on Barr as he is just too weak to play and succeed in the nfl. (12 reps on the bench not injured?) Mack and Barr represent problems for our defense that I’m just not sure I want to deal with. Plus linebackers are less valuable.
    I also think that Mack and Barr both suggest higher than average bust potential. Especially if either comes to a 4/3.

  35. snook Says:

    Won’t make it past Atlanta…..

  36. flmike Says:

    I see him as an all downs LB, his game is more speed than power, though he does look strong as hell, I’d use him like a 3-4 OLB even in our cover two, let him challenge the LOS, I don’t think there is a back in the legue that can stop him from coming off the edge, especially if the RT is engaged with our DE.

  37. bucrightoff Says:

    Joe thinks Lovie will have the wisdom to draft a potentially great QB…even as Lovie never drafted a QB earlier than the 4th round, and oh yeah, that was with Rex Grossman as his assumed starter. Joe hopes Lovie drafts Johnny; Joe KNOWS it isn’t happening and that the choices are pass rusher, offensive line or if Sammy falls, him. But QB isn’t happening, Lovie’s starter is Josh McCown and he’s not creating a controversy drafting a QB first round.

  38. gotbbucs Says:

    We’d have to move up for Mack.

  39. tmaxcon Says:

    bucrightoff – i agree no first round QB that being said currently there is only 2 NFL quarterbacks (McCown / Kafka) on the roster he said there would be 4 in camp so 2 need to come from somewhere.

  40. bucrightoff Says:

    Ummm, tmaxcon, I don’t know if you hate Glennon or not but he’s still on the roster. And if you’re putting Kafka ahead of him…I have nothing to add other than I can never take your opinion seriously if you’re intentionally saying Kafka is an NFL QB and Glennon is not.

  41. tmaxcon Says:

    bucrightoff –

    i honestly do not think glennon will be on the roster. I firmly believe he will be traded for a pick. nothing personal with glennon just don’t think he will be on the roster and no I do not think Kafka is a better qb than glennon. the bucs need picks with the 4th round pick going to jets and the 6th round pick going to bears for Camini. I feel Glennon has value to another team and the bucs need picks. i know my opinion is not a popular one but it makes good business sense. take advantage of glennon’s potential value before he gets on the field and reduces said value by his play. the bucs need more picks and he is the best chance they get more. who else on team has REALISTIC trade value.

  42. delson Says:

    I’d like mack or barr but I get the feeling we won’t be drafting either. We got plenty of depth. Gholston bowers clayborn means michael johnson. But I’d love to draft a lb. Its gotta be o line or qb. Mccown is a bridge qb n last year showed our lack of consistency at the line.

  43. Patrick in VA Says:

    @tmaxcon -the Bucs used that same good business sense when they shipped Steve Young off for a second round pick

  44. tmaxcon Says:

    patrick please explain to me how a trade over 20 years ago is relevant to the new regime. And please do not ever mention glennon in the same breath with a super bowl wining qb.

    Lovie made it clear 2 qbs on roster… Why waste reps on Glennon if they draft a late or early round qb and have McCown firmly in he mentor / stop gap mode. All i am saying based on lovie’s comments and the fact that if they draft a high round qb it will be critical for that qb to get reps and at that point it will be very clear that glennon has no future with bucs. if they take a late round qb to develop then why bother having glennon in the mix if he clearly is not in the future plans of the team. it’s very clear to me. if glennon is the next coming of Steve Young then all REAL bucs fans would be excited to get great value for him prior to the draft. Take advantage of Glennon’s value now don’t wait. If the bucs draft a qb that is very very clear that glennon is a goner might as well get something now. In my opinion they will get more for him the day of draft or prior to draft versus after the draft when teams will know that the bucs have no plans for glennon and will simply release him. look at Penn, Joseph etc… we go nothing for them partially because of their contracts and partially it was no secreet they were on the way out. I love the Bucs not individual players. that does not mean i don’t follow and appreciate individual players but team first players second.

  45. bucrightoff Says:

    It’s not that Steve Young being traded is relevant, it’s simply a comparable situation of giving up on a player way too soon. I honestly don’t know how anyone wants to flat out give up on Glennon at this point. You may think he’s not going to be a starter, but circumstantially speaking, he performed about as well as can be expected last year. We know he’s a hard worker and wants to get better.

    To suggest after only 13 games he needs to go is a bit much. Especially when everyone who wants to get rid of him wants to draft a QB, likely no lower than the 2nd round. And that they’ll likely want to give that QB more than 13 games even if his numbers are worse than Glennons after 13 games (and from a historical perspective, that’s almost a certainty).

  46. tmaxcon Says:

    young’s comparison is not comparable in my opinion. There were many other factors involved with that. Being an old guy, i remember the USFL and I also remember very clearly that Steve Young had no intentions of playing in Tampa. He flat out did not want to come to tampa very similar to the game John Elway played with the Colts. When young was drafted it was at the point when culverhous was a HUGE laughing stock of the league.

    no one is giving up on glennon he may not fit the bucs system and they simply are moving on. i guess I just don’t get the loyalty to glennon that some of the folks here have. it’s not like a local kid nor does he have the upside like andrew luck or 31 other teams would be beating down the doors to get him. Take a minute and take whatever emotional connection to glennon you have and ask yourself this; if the coach and gm have stated their preference to keep 2 qb’s on the roster and it’s very, very clear McCown is the mentor / stop gap that leaves one roster spot and 2 camp arms. The math is simple to me. So if all the other gms / coaches see the same thing that glennon mob’s see’s then it’s a no brainier to trade him for picks. the bucs have holes. glennon may not be a savoir on the field but the draft pick obtained for him may be.

  47. Patrick in VA Says:

    Young had as much going for him when he was here as Glennon does now. It took Bill Walsh and Jerry Rice to get the best out of him. Glennon had Greg Schiano and Vincent Jackson. He wasn’t really given a full set of tools. It’s like a comparison of Raheem and Schiano, Raheem had nothing to work with and no money to get anyone but was expected to win and did from time to time but was ultimately fired for not winning enough. Schiano had the checkbook opened to him and was given the chance to bring in every person that had ever been to Rutgers to come in to help him and he couldn’t get it done. Both were losers but one’s hands were tied and couldn’t be reasonably expected to win. That would be the same as comparing Glennon to a QB coming in this year. Glennon was given nothing to work with and was a rookie so of course he’s going to lose. A new QB coming in is obviously going to do better because it’s a professional coaching staff and the good players from last year will actually be on the field and there are new good players coming in. What you’re not considering is that Glennon will do better under those circumstances as well.

  48. Bucfan#37 Says:

    If they are planning on trading Glennon, he has to be worth a second round pick or at worst a third round. He has the potential to be an effective QB. I say keep him.

  49. tmaxcon Says:

    well if the bucs do NOT draft a qb then Glennon will get is chance for me personally I have seen enough of him to know that I do not want him leading my team. Regardless of all the excuses and apologizes people make for him I just cant buy in to him.

    “Efforts without results are meaningless”

    4-12 and 32 in offense enough said!

  50. tmaxcon Says:

    draft Mack or Watkins if he falls but i have a feeling neither mack or watkins will be available.

  51. bucrightoff Says:

    “Moving on” from a player is called giving up on them. It’s a semantics thing but they mean the same thing.

    Steve Young signed a $40 million deal to play in the USFL. It had nothing to do with the Bucs sucking. It had to do with $40 million in 1984 being the equivalent of $200 million in 2014. Are you turning that down? I didn’t think so.

    Young played 2 seasons in Tampa. Hardly sounds like a guy who didn’t want to be there (and funny story but initially Jim Kelly didn’t want to play for Buffalo. I’d say it worked out). Then the Bucs drafted Vinny. At that point, they had moved on from Young, not the other way around. The Bucs gave up on Young because they didn’t view him as a franchise guy, which they did with Vinny (whoops…..).

    Trading Glennon makes no sense. Why? Trading him now is a surefire tipoff the Bucs are drafting a QB. All of a sudden every team who wants a QB knows they can jump the Bucs in the draft and get the QB before them. Bad tactic. So Glennon is going to be here until draft night at least. And once its known the Bucs are drafting a QB, who’s giving up anything for Glennon? Be patient and you get him for free.

  52. tmaxcon Says:

    bucfan#37 glennon has a 5 or 6th round trade value MAX! no way the bucs get anything better than that. in my opinion, the best case scenario is he is a throw in to complete a trade down. trading down is not that easy but maybe throwing glennon in will sweeten the deal enough for a team. after all he is the next coming of steve young.

  53. Patrick in VA Says:

    @tmaxcon – good point. I wonder what our record would’ve been if we had any other players o on the field besides Glennon. Oh wait……

  54. tmaxcon Says:

    review your history please. Young wanted out of tampa and forced their hand to trade him. the 2 years he played here were a disaster not only for him but the franchise in general. it’s irrelevant though and bringing up young’s name in a glennon comment is ludicrous on so many levels.

    the point is and one of gm’s philosophy is is is better to get rid of a player a year early than a year late. if the bucs draft a qb glennon’s value will never be higher than it is now. very simple we can twist and turn each others words around all day but at the end of the day I hope we all just want the bucs to WIN. I’ll be the first one to eat a big fat S(p)it sandwich if Glennon beats out anyone and starts that being said, I am fairly confident i will not have to do that.

  55. Patrick in VA Says:

    @tmaxcon – that’s a very Ricky Bobby “if you’re not first, you’re last” take on it. How about getting rid of him at the appropriate time when you’ve had a chance to do an apples to apples comparison?

    While there are a few on here that would rather have their opinion be correct than to see the Bucs do well I think the majority of the folks here are merely bickering out of frustration because despite our different opinions we’ve all been subject to the same bad team for years.

  56. tmaxcon Says:

    In my opinion I have seen enough. the biggest factor is the bucs desire to carry 2 qb’s. I think that is the main point that get’s lost here.

    2nd is the first loser though. I want super bowls not playoff appearances nor do I want to be teased with divisional championship games. I was lucky enough to be in san diego when the bucs won and would like to do that again prior to moving on in this world. I am a greedy little arsehole in my old age.

  57. bucrightoff Says:

    What’s really ludicrous is believing college guys with 0 NFL starts are an absolute stone cold lock to be better than Glennon. Worst of all if a QB is drafted, after his first 13 games his numbers are likely to be poorer than Glennon’s, yet everyone who wants Glennon gone will be more than willing to give that QB more time.

    Everyone seems to be acting like he played like a total bum. Well I said it before but if he gave Arizona what he have the Bucs they would have made the playoffs. They almost did with Carson having more turnovers (25) than TDs (24). Glennon deserves to at least compete with McCown but Lovie has chosen McCown so that’s that. Getting rid of him just seems like such a Bucs move. So many people last year were scared to cut Freeman because they were convinced he’d go elsewhere and be great. That was with 4 seasons of evidence. Yet after not even 1 Glennon has to go. Hmmmm…..

  58. BoJim Says:

    tmaxcon Said:ys:

    “the bucs have no plans for glennon and will simply release him.”

    And you know this how? You make me laugh.