Was The 2009 Draft A “Failure?”

October 4th, 2013

“Failure” is a such a harsh word. No wiggle room there. No gray area.

According to ESPN NFC South blogger Pat Yasinskas, rockstar general manager Mark Dominik’s 2009 draft was just that — “a failure.”

But Joe thinks that’s an unfair grade. Let’s look at the picks.

1st round: Josh Freeman – Joe can’t call Freeman a complete bust of a first-round pick. He played pretty well for a 21-year-old rookie thrust into the starting lineup midseason. That year Freeman had very little training camp and preseason reps, and was without a dedicated quarterbacks coach for much of the season. Freeman moved on to a tremendous season in 2010, before becoming inconsistent. The Bucs made an organizational decision to draft a QB, and Freeman was the best available. Yes, first-round picks have to become impact, good players. Pick grade: D+

2nd round: Traded pick for Kellen Winslow – DJ Toes On The Line Winslow played well for two Tampa Bay seasons and declined in his third but was still productive. He didn’t miss a game in three years, which is more than Joe can say for the Bucs’ current crop of tight ends. Winslow also aided greatly in the development of Freeman before dragging Freeman down in 2011. Winslow, overall, didn’t equal what you’d want from a solid second-round pick. Pick grade: D.

3rd round: Roy Miller – Miller gave the Bucs three lost seasons before playing excellent ball in 2012. Early in his career, Miller battled weight issues — some team inflicted by the Jim Bates fatten-them-up order — and he had various injuries. The Bucs gave up on Miller and he went on to get a new contract. For a third-round pick, Miller wasn’t what the Bucs hoped, but he wasn’t a total loss: Pick Grade: D+.

4th round: Kyle Moore – Sackless Kyle Moore never got a sack during his regular-season time in Tampa, despite being gifted the starting left defensive end job. That’s hard to do when you play in 16 games. Moore also battled weight issues and was a napper in meetings. He moved on to Buffalo and finally got some sacks, but he’s out of football now. Pick grade: F.

5th round: Xavier Fulton – The offensive lineman didn’t make the roster. Pick grade: F

7th round:  Sammie Stroughter – Stroughter was a contributor immediately, catching 55 balls over his first two seasons before injuries cut him down. Stroughter also was a strong returner and won the New Schiano Order punt return job last season before a serious September foot injury. For a 7th-rounder, the Bucs got a lot out of him. Pick grade: B-.

7th round: E.J. Biggers – A member of the 2012 fearsome foursome of Bucs cornerbacks, “E.J., Leonard, Danny and LeQuan,” Biggers drove many Bucs fans crazy for years. His debut was in 2010, after being on injured reserve for all of 2009. Biggers just wasn’t good enough, which wasn’t his fault. The guy played, well, like a decent seventh-round pick given too big of a role. He finished his Bucs career with three interceptions. Pick grade: C.

Giving more weight to the grades of the highest draft picks, of course, Joe’s going to put a final grade on the Bucs’ 2009 draft: D+.

113 Responses to “Was The 2009 Draft A “Failure?””

  1. bucrightoff Says:

    Wow D+, thats so much better than a straight F. It was a total failure as a draft because nobody drafted will make an impact on the Bucs roster only 5 years later. That’s pretty terrible.

  2. mpmalloy Says:

    It’s a cultural and systemic failure, but a failure none-the-less.
    Dom will take the fall for it but it’s really an institutional failing.
    We can’t develop players worth a ****.

    It’s painfully obvious.
    This is where players come to die.

    Run Josh. Run with all of your might and never look back (Lol)

  3. Kryq Says:

    I liked Sammie just couldn’t stay healthy. EJ held is on sometimes not always, miller helped last year but eh. Other then that horrible draft Mark Dominick doesn’t really draft well honestly.

  4. Old*Skool*BucFan Says:

    LMAO….I was thinking the same thing a “D+” aint much better than a ‘F’. And it is true, for some reason Tampa is not a place to flourish. Maybe if you play defense, but I’ve NEVER seen a QB or WR become a star down here, its sad.

  5. Bobby Says:

    Not a great draft. He’s gotten much better lately.

  6. Bojacksonsucks Says:

    Sorry Joe your Rockstar’s first draft was a failure. Zero players are on the team after 5 years, that’s a failure by the GM and coaching staff. Top 5 pick here we come, just have to hope Schiano or Dom aren’t here to mess it up.

  7. Vic Says:

    Fair grade Joe. Sad but fair.

  8. Kryq Says:

    I think lovie smith will do wonders with this defense. Just need a really good offensive coordinator and GM this team is a QB and TE away from being a real real contender late playoff bound and a slot reciever.

  9. gulfcoast Says:

    Hmm, well Joe, since you put it THAT way…….

  10. jfgobucs Says:


  11. Tampabaybucfan Says:

    Joe…come on!…..A D+ for Freeman….sure, Josh didn’t perform up to expectations, but he did start for 4+ years….I think he should get at least the same score as Biggers or Stroughter.
    I do think you could call the 2009 Draft a failure overall, however.

  12. BFFL Says:

    Drafts have been much better the last 2 years due to Schiano/Davis NOT Dom.

    It looks like Schiano’s coaching style does not work in the NFL, but he is a very good talent evaluator. We may not win with him but he will leave this team in better shape than when he arrived.

  13. Cannon Says:

    Technically, everything on the Bucs could be considered a failure since 2002.

  14. Nick2 Says:

    Ok sorry yes if I look at this draft it was not successful. 4 or 5 years out nobody is still here? WOW Dominicks days might be numbered.

  15. Nick2 Says:

    Oh yeah and its great that Domicks best picks are in the 7th round. What a genius LOL Hey Dom try doing a little better in rounds 1-6 then you might keep your job.

  16. Ryan Carboni Says:

    D’s get degrees but no Super Bowl rings
    Go Bucs

  17. richardtyson Says:

    It’s ridiculous to think of the 2009 draft as anything but a complete WASTE! Well…..at least for the bucs.

  18. buc4lyfe Says:

    It’s not a failure because a college coach doesnt know how to handle a roster….who wouldnt have wanted sammy straughter over ogletree?

    and the question of all questions is qhy on earth did schiano think that ahmad black was better than cody grimm and now look neither one of them are on the team, front office is a complete failure because even with all this talent on the roster they still suck

    not every team in the nfl has a franchise quarterback, we won a superbowl without one so thats no excuse, even cleveland won games this year, so if jacksonville wins a game before us who is to blame

  19. tye Says:

    I remember back then articles said Josh Freeman “Bust in waiting” or something similar to that…. OH, How prophetic it turned out to be!

  20. Joc Says:

    Imagine what the squad would look like if we had to build through the draft?

  21. Tampabaybucfan Says:

    It would be hard for me to concieve that McCoy, Barron, LVD, Martin, Foster, Watson & Banks won’t be here 5 years from now….unless we can’t afford them.

  22. richardtyson Says:

    I agree with freeman getting a D+ compared to Biggers’ C considering when those players were picked. A failed 1st rounder deserves a lower grade then a failed late rounder. Gotta make the most of those first round picks, they only come once a year(usually).

  23. Pruritus Ani Says:

    Biggers gets an F. My abuela has quicker speed and reflexes!

  24. BuccaneerBonzai Says:

    For the Bucs it was a complete failure. Even GMs have rookie years.

  25. bucrightoff Says:

    Browns are bringing in Tyler Thigpen for a tryout, no word on Freeman yet.

  26. richardtyson Says:

    It is saddening when you look at the previous 2 years. Talib (1strounder), and Gaines Adams (1st rounder). 3 failed first rounders 3 straight years in a row is unacceptable. This is why we depend so heavily on free agents and it is also why the bucs suck right now.

  27. Oil Derrick Brooks Says:

    How could it be anything but a failure?

  28. JS Says:

    There are no D’s anymore. Anything below a C is failing.

    EPIC FAIL by your jackass GM.

  29. vdubguy Says:

    We were still hungover from Bruce Allen’s previous drafts.

  30. bucfanjeff Says:

    Well, at this point, I wouldn’t call it a success.

  31. lightningbuc Says:

    Tyler Thigpen? LMAO!!!!

  32. Architek Says:


  33. BirdDoggers Says:

    I wasn’t completely on board with the Freeman pick, considering the team was in desperate need of defensive lineman at the time. However, I can understand the pick. Gruden didn’t develop a QB while he was here, so I can see why Dominik and Morris didn’t want to go down that path. The Freeman pick looked like it could turn out to be a good up until late last season.

    The Winslow trade worked for the first two season’s. After that, Freeman forced the ball to him all the time in the third season, which contributed to his interception numbers and overall poor season in my opinion.

    Miller turned into a starter and did a good job as a role player at his position.The late round pick of Stroughter paid dividends. Biggers logged a fair amount of playing time due to a roster void of talent. Overall, not a great draft.

  34. blackmagic00 Says:

    5 years later (only five, usually when players really start to peak) the entire draft is gone. Sorry Joe, but that IS a BIG FAT “F”!!

  35. Oil Derrick Brooks Says:

    Winslow never earned that highest paid TE in history contract. Did he produce? Sure. But, he never matched the expectations.

    Dominick should have never let Raheem influence him on Freeman. Raheem had never been a talent evaluator or head coach. At the end of the day, it’s Dominick’s job, and he is responsible for picks, FA’s and hiring all coaches.

  36. Thomas 2.2 Says:

    Not a single player remains less than 5 seasons later, no playoffs, and no finishes above second to last in the division for those preceding 4 seasons – how can it possibly be anything but a failure?

    Don’t we play the reg season to qualify for playoffs?

  37. Paul Says:

    I wonder why we didn’t get Sudfeld off waivers. Why don’t we give a crap about TE when ours suck so bad…Looking at GM on this one.

  38. Drew Says:

    Wow! How is this Dom’s failure. Dom doesn’t evaluate player talent and the Coaches agree on the players they want drafted, while Dom executes the contract negotiations. The only thing Dom can be held accountable for is negotiated player contracts and salary cap and this has been managed extremely well. Also add in his ability to maneuver within the draft and pick up extra draft picks.

    Dom is not the problem. Look only as far as Raheem Morris and his coaching staff as the responsible party for the poor 2009 draft.

  39. Warrenfb12 Says:

    Bottom line…none of those players are on the roster now=fail

  40. JEB Buc Says:

    Agree that 2009 was a bad draft and free agency. Guess my thoughts are, is he improving. I think so. 2010 he got four starters in that draft alone. I love the defense that is on the field now. Spence, McCoy, clayborn, foster, Watson, banks, Barron and David are all draft picks. But 2009 yep bust

  41. Splengo Says:

    Bucrightoff ,

    You’re really interested in what happens to Freeman, aren’t you?

  42. Oil Derrick Brooks Says:


    Whoah, whoah, was that a joke?

    Of course the GM is responsible. The GM is in charge of ALL PERSONNEL. He has final work on all drafts, and all free agents.

    Unless you are Belichick or Parcells, etc, the GM is in charge of drafting. Hence the ol Parcells quote about picking out the groceries for cooking the meal.

    Now, if you want to say he is only skilled at contract and not on player evaluations, that’s different.

  43. Drew Says:

    OK… so where does the player evaluation come from? Dom?

  44. Oil Derrick Brooks Says:


    From his own Bio on the Bucs site:

    “Dominik was named the fourth general manager in Buccaneers history on January 17, 2009, and he quickly gained, and has kept, a reputation as one of the league’s top talent evaluators and most astute dealers. He is known for having a keen eye for late-round draft picks, in addition to fully utilizing the “second draft” – bringing in fresh contributors through undrafted free agency and scouring the waiver wire and opposing teams’ practice squads for other valuable additions.”

    Good lord, what are some of you people talking about???

  45. Oil Derrick Brooks Says:

    Before he was GM, he was director of Pro Personnel for the Bucs. He learned under Allen.

  46. The Dom must go Says:

    Joe how about grading all of his picks and free agent pick ups. The guy sucks! Over spent for a wideout a punter a guard and a corner….two bad coaching hires…look at our record the last 10 games!

  47. Drew Says:

    So what you’re saying is the Coaching staff under that guise has no input or say into who is drafted and it all falls on Dom.

  48. Oil Derrick Brooks Says:

    If you read his job title, yes, it ultimately is his responsibility.

    Of course, most coaches give GM’s input. That’s the general practice But, he has final say on all draft picks, all FA signings, and the hiring of all coaches.

  49. Drew Says:

    You’re also implying he has a better understanding of how a player fits in the O and D systems.

  50. Chris Says:

    Freeman wasn’t a complete bust? F.

    Winslow? F
    Miller? Actually developed into a solid nt. c+. However f bc Dom didn’t sign him for some reason.

    Everyone else is an f.

  51. Drew Says:

    Sorry Oil Derrick Brooks. I respect what you’re saying, but I respectfully agree to disagree.

  52. Oil Derrick Brooks Says:

    I’m not sure how old you are, or how much you follow professional football. But, the GM being responsible for drafts and personnel and the coaches being in charge of coaching is not new.

    You have rare cases where they get both: Belichick, Parcells, I’m sure there’s more, but, that’s just how it’s always been.

    Dungy gave input, but he wasn’t doing the drafts. The is not new or news.

  53. Oil Derrick Brooks Says:


    This isn’t an opinion. Read his bio. Read any GMs or Team President bio.

    God, this is the problem with half the peoples opinion on this site. They don’t actually know the nuts and bolts of how teams are run.

    I mean, no disrespect, but, this is not opinion. Ask anyone.

  54. Drew Says:

    The General Manager will have ultimate authority over the players, coaches, scouts, trainers, and basically anyone who can conceivably have an impact on the product the team puts on the field. Despite having hiring/firing power over the Head Coach, most GMs are expected to treat the coach as a near equal. The GM will consult closely with the Head Coach when selecting players, and it is universally expected that the Head Coach will have substantial powers delegated to him including total control of his roster once the offseason acquisitions are made, and control over his staff.

  55. crazy Says:

    How many 09’ers are still helping the team? 0. How many of their positions are filled with solid starters or backups? Maybe 1 DT and 1 CB? You can’t get every pick right but the team is still trying to plug holes they tried to plug in 09. Not much of a success.

  56. Drew Says:

    I believe in 2009 he was badly influenced by Raheem Morris in his selections and influenced better by Greg Schiano in his selections.

    Greg Schiano > Raheem Morris

  57. Oil Derrick Brooks Says:

    Shanahan also has authority over personnel. But, it’s more often than not the GM with final word.

    Umm, in Miami? Jeff Ireland not Philbin. Atlanta’s Dimitroff is in charge of personell. The list goes on.

    But, by all mean, feel free to disagree. But, can you tell me where you are getting your information from? Just opinion?

  58. Oil Derrick Brooks Says:

    I agree. It looked better after Schiano started. But, it’s his job responsibility. He just takes their opinions.

  59. Oil Derrick Brooks Says:

    So, did you get that from Wiki?

    Do you think the Glazers allowed a first time head coach to have equal power with a 4th year GM? One who has been in personnel with TB since 2002?

    Every team is different. Do you think Jerry Jones consults Opie? I’d say Fischer in St. Louis has equal footing.

    I will try to find an exact quote. But, you can’t just go on a wiki quote man. How old are you?

  60. Drew Says:

    We’re in agreement. My suspicion is his only fault may be that he trusts the Coaches opinion more than he should and runs with the selection.

  61. Drew Says:

    Wiki and a couple of other sites it was 🙂

  62. Drew Says:


  63. Drew Says:

    And played a lot of football.

  64. Drew Says:

    May have at one time been a scout for an NFL team.

  65. Oil Derrick Brooks Says:

    Well, my apologies.

    But, here’s one article. I think it gives a good approximation.


    I’d say Pete Carrol gets nearly 50/50 input. Oakland is prob all GM. Varies team to team.

    No matter who is responsible for what, I tend to think, generally, the QB, the coach and GM will be judged by Wins and Losses by owners. Unless their are extreme situations.

  66. Thomas 2.2 Says:

    Cleveland reported ZERO interest in Freeman but are in contact with Tyler Thigpen’s representation. Officially Tyler Thigpen’s stock is higher.

  67. Drew Says:

    I completely agree it varies from team to team. The face of an organization will always be the GM and then the Head Coach. This is typically why the axe falls on both when they’re judged on Wins and Losses.

  68. zam Says:

    Don’t forget they traded up to get Freeman. If you trade up to take Freeman, while Clay Matthews, Percy Harvin, Mike Wallace and LeSean McCoy are all still out there, then I think you get F.

    The 10-6 record, 25/6 year for Freeman was against a powder puff schedule of opponents. I remember at the time how super easy they had it, yet they all kept saying “a win is a win”. Well, no it ain’t.

  69. Bucs1987 Says:

    Let’s Go Red Sox!

  70. PRBucFan Says:

    The Red Sox can suck my left nut.

  71. zam Says:

    In evaluating a draft, it’s more useful to assess whether players are still in football and successful, rather than whether they are on this particular team that drafted them.

    For example if Freeman ends up being a Hall of Famer, then it was an A++ draft, followed by a huge F in the followup. I think it’s pretty to safe to say that’s not gonna happen, but you get the point.

  72. zam Says:

    you have to win 3, bucs1987. It’s still the first quarter.

  73. Crabcakes and Football Says:

    I like doms picks in almost all his drafts. They made sense at the time and they all had potential. The problem is they get here and don’t develop but I believe that is changing under schiano. Look at what he did at Rutgers. He developed mediocre players into nfl players a lot. I think freeman was a great pick at the time. Go back and look at some of his interviews and highlights from his rookie year when he was kinda fat and you see a different kid and player. As he got older and more famous the dude just changed. Not just his appearance but his demeanor and how he played. It’s like he became very self conscious and was more worried about how he looked out there than just playing the game. I really don’t believe it was coaching but something personal he was going through. He got f***in weird somewhere along the way. There’s nothin dom and schiano can do about that. I think we’re headed in the right direction. The offense will evolve and get better as glennon becomes more comfortable. Our defense is really good and getting better. It was his first NFL game ever! Have faith

  74. Bucs1987 Says:

    Ha ha ha ha ha…doing my best Eddie Murphy laugh impersonation.

  75. ThredKilla Says:

    We’ll do better in next year’s draft.

  76. Patrick Says:

    Are you kidding me Joe?!?! You give Winslow a D? He produced in all 3 seasons he was here! lol ok…..

    Joe didn’t give Winslow a D, Joe gave the draft pick slot a D. Huge difference. –Joe

  77. PRBucFan Says:

    Winslow was our number 1 threat while he was here for the most part, it was a good investment.

    Regardless of whether he practiced, he was ready come game day.

  78. Adam L. Says:

    Any of these guys still on the roster?


    A complete failure. Not one player deemed worthy of keeping. Big goose egg.

  79. BuccaneerBonzai Says:

    I’m bored.

    When does football season start?

  80. Deminion Says:

    Fail so I was thinkin bout our nxt coach… Shaw of Stanford

  81. PRBucFan Says:

    If we do get another coach,


    Plenty of proven winning coaches within NFL experience out there.

  82. bucrightoff Says:

    Shaw would be great but I don’t think the Bucs will wanna pay what it takes. He will command more than Schiano for sure.

  83. BigMacAttack Says:

    Dom has made a few good picks since 09′ but overall has more bad picks than good and a major reason why the team is lacking in so many areas. Schiano has only exasperated the situation with his Little Hitler approach. If the Bucs fire Dom, I can see it but they need to reace Schiano 2 weeks ago. Every day that passes is a wasted day toward the future. Schiano Sucks and Dom should have sat on Freeman a little longer since he was already paying for him.

  84. PRBucFan Says:

    It’s clear your disdain for Schiano BMA hahaha

  85. admin Says:

    Joe didn’t give Winslow a D, Joe gave the draft pick slot a D. Huge difference. –Joe

  86. pick6 Says:

    the simplwst universal measure of a draft pick’s success is whether that player was offered a second contract by the team that drafted them. the bucs get a big fat zero on that count for 2009. for what it’s worth 2010 and 2011 look a bit better from that standpoint

  87. Northend Says:

    Here is the link to petion the Glazer family to fire Schiano.do it


  88. Cmurda Says:

    Wow. As a fan of Rock Star, I normally see the glass as half full but jeesh. I can’t defend that draft. The reality is the draft picks by Dom have been less than stellar as he’s missed on more than he’s hit. In addition, Schiano was Dom’s choice so if Schiano goes, logic would dictate Dom goes too. The Glazers really seem to like Dom though so Im not sure this thing is logical.

  89. RastaMon Says:

    I can’t wait for the off season…

  90. ThredKilla Says:

    The draft grades are fair in my opinion.

  91. Pewter Power Says:

    Just as they gave Freeman 5 years, the same should hold true for Dom, his time should be up as well. The Bucs can do better, can they really do any worse under this current GM’s directive, aren’t they already at rock bottom? Do they really need to go 0-16 to realize they need a change at the GM position? Get rid of Dom!

  92. nate Says:

    This coach and gm have to go….bring in johnny football and the texas a&M COACH!!! We have to roll our dice its a passing league anyways….

  93. Jeb Buc Says:

    Pick6 agree and both miller and biggers got 2nd deals. Look, do you all want miller or spence? Banks or biggers? Clayborn or Moore? Fulton or Dotson? Again 2009 not good but to judge a GM on his first year is tough. In 09 Atlanta drafted DT Jerry bust. Besides Eric wright in which he due to the contract was able to get away from what’s been ugly since 2009? Price- injury sure. Benn never missed game in college but ir for all four years.

    At Joe, so who do you think should be GM? Wish you’d answer that…

  94. Bucs Fan Since '76 Says:

    2010 is teetering on the edge too.

    1st Round – McCoy = A (fell into our lap)
    2d Round – Price = F
    2d Round – Benn = F
    3d Round – Lewis = F (F- if there was such a thing)
    4th Round – Williams = A-
    6th Round – Bowden = F
    7th Round – Grimm = C
    7th Round – Watson = B
    7th Round – Lorig = B (drafted as a DE)

  95. Jeb Buc Says:

    Nice, so lee Roy salmon fell in our lap and so did Broderick Thomas I mean Derrick Thomas…

    In 2010 if you draft four starters that to me are legit that’s excellent take ANY draft class from any team and you’ll find misses. I think 2010 was very good draft looking back now

  96. Joc Says:

    Remember the 10 draft was the deepest draft i’n 20 years. Everyones like we got Gerald but he’ll he was the 3 pick i’n the draft. That wAs a D –

  97. Bucs Fan Since '76 Says:

    @Jeb Buc –

    My comment on the McCoy pick was that it didn’t require much thought. We needed a DL and it was either him or Suh. That was the League and analyst consensus. We took McCoy and he became a Pro Bowl player; hence the A. But we missed badly on both seconds and the third. You cannot miss on those picks and expect to succeed. We did and we aren’t. As for Lorig and Watson, both are excellent 7th round picks, but successful franchises are built in the middle rounds, and 2009 was an unmitigated disasters. 2010 is close. Our 24 – 44 record since 2008 is proof.

  98. Cmurda Says:

    If we are going to be critical, its only fair we look at the 2012 draft as well. Mark Barron, Doug Martin, and LaVonte David our 1st 3 picks. I give Dom pretty high marks there.

  99. Adam L. Says:

    I honestly think Lorig was Dominik’s best pick. Late draft pick that was able to change positions and excel. He found a real gem there. Dakota Watson is a close second. It’s the late rounds where a GM makes their bones.

  100. Patrick Says:

    Dominick also missed on both of our 2nd rounders in the 2010 draft and missed on our 3rd rounder (Myron Lewis). You can’t miss on that many high picks. I think we can now call Bowers a wasted pick from the 2011 draft.

  101. Cmurda Says:

    2010 draft was nice. 4 guys that should be on the team for years. 2012 draft was also nice. Give credit where credit is due. If you hit on half especially towards the top, thats a fair draft.

  102. Joc Says:

    2012 blew it taking Barron over Luke k- should you get congratulated for hitting a rb i’n the first round? Love David great pick but the rest of the draft?? What would the team look like without free agent signings ?? We would be lucky to win 3 games. We will never be a 500 team under Dom

  103. trubucfan22 Says:


    Head coaches dont have the time to scout college ranks for gems. Yes schiano has imput, and probably more than most first year coaches would have, but thats because he came from college and already had a strong grasp of the players in the acc and kids he recruited. No is saying that head coaches dont have a say, because everyone knows they do. But the gm’sjob it is to make the picks and build the rosyer. Coaches main job to take that roster and make something out of it.

    We have a damn good roster (save a few desperately needed wrs and tes) there is no reason even with a terrible qb that we dont have yet. That is solely on schiano. He is a terrible coach.

  104. hectorvas Says:

    No offense Joe, but the last place we need to look for our next coach and gm is Jersey. If youv been away from that trash dump as long as Joe has then you get a pass. But I can still smell all that Barone Sanitation from schiano! Clean house Glazers!

  105. hectorvas Says:

    Dom>Mckay>Allen. But Dom still needs to go for siding with that New Jersey Devil. (again no offense joe)

  106. White Tiger Says:

    I’ve heard this so much I’m sick of it – it’s an overrated issue.

    New England Patriots Draft analysis of years 2007 – 2010:

    2007 – ZERO players on the roster – out of 8 picks

    2008 – ONE player still on roster (Jarod Mayo) out of 8 picks

    2009 – TWO players still on roster (Vollmer/OL, Edelman/WR) – out of 12 (TWELVE – including 4 2nd rounders) picks

    2010 – Three players still on roster (McCourtey/DB, Gronk/TE, Spikes/LB) – again – out of 12 (TWELVE – including 3 2nd rounders.

    Is this horse still really worth beating?

  107. LUVMYBUCS Says:

    Historically we are a terrible team at evaluating & drafting talent. At almost every damn position. Except DE, DT & LB

  108. LUVMYBUCS Says:

    @White Tiger

    New Englands Roster During its Championship Years
    The 80’s/90’s 49er’s Roster
    The 90’s/2000’s Steelers Roster
    The 90’s Broncos Roster
    The 90’s/2000’s Packers

    These teams evaluated talent extremely well during this period of time. Drafted players that fit their prospective scheme’s. And utilized their best asset- GREAT POSITION COACHES- to cultivate their prospects.

  109. scubog Says:

    As much as I admire Mark Dominik for his rise in the organization; there’s no denying the weakness of his early draft efforts. One must question how much influence the coaching staff has been allowed to have in the choices. In that case, perhaps Schiano has had better insight than his predecessor.

  110. Skelly Says:

    stop it joe. This draft was worse than an D+ and its due to 1 reason. Saddling your team with a 1st roundQB that turns out to be a bust. Whats the common wisdom, you set your team back 4-5 years by a 1st round QB fail. Here we are 5 years later, look at NYJ. Makes sense to me.

    TOTAL F for Dom on this draft. no other grade makes sense….

  111. Niko Says:

    Who cares…it’s 4 years later and not one is on your team. That’s a failure plain and simple. If it were ten years out then you can grade it on a curve.

  112. White Tiger Says:

    Why not throw Dungy’s roster in there too?

    Teams that make a Super Bowl run are rare – our most recent success was with a lifelong defensive guru (Dungy) …but NOT until it was matched to a lifelong offensive guru (Gruden).

    One my draw the conclusion that it would be best to target unsung defensive coordinators that are not bent on proving to the world that you can ONLY win if you build an offense that doesn’t screw it up for the defense.

    What Gruden’s tenure SHOULD have proven to everyone (as did Ted Marchibroda proved to Dungy in INdy) – ONE side of the line of scrimmage has to be elite – but the other side has to at least be NFL average.

    We seem to be stck on which side we want to do what – and we have another coach who wants to prove what Dungy COULD NOT – that youu don’t need a talented offense if you have a talented defense.

    We have a good defense, maybe on the plus side of average, unfortunately we also seem to have built an average offense.

    Ironically, that seems to be the book on Schiano – he was 67-66 in college – he gets close to “getting it” then he self-implodes and never reaches the potential of the talent he assembles.

    Mediocrity doesn’t just happen – it is planned and built into an organization.

    Part of the Steeler success is they do a lot of work finding just the right guy – identifying the type of offensive/defensive philosophy they want – then they assemble staff and talent.

    …but then they leave them alone.

    But that’s just part of it. When finding the right guy, it has to be one that can use the talent that is already HERE.

    Anyone can trash the players the last guy assembled – the trick is to maximize the talent you DO have.

    We’re stuck somewhere between finding the right guy – and leaving him alone.

    In my opinion, we don’t have te right guy…but I don’t own the team.

    It’s not the DRAFT – so much as the guys we have running the draft – and the system we’re trying to draft for.

    There’s a disconnect, now – but only because those guys we drafted for Raheem, don’t fit the type of scheme’s Schiano wants to run. He’s to rigid – his ONLY way to manage is to employ scorched earth – the problem there is that the fans have been told “these are the guys we’re going with” and over years see enough things where they kinda grow attached to “these guys”. When we see someone come in and treat these players disrespectfully it totally trashes the fan base development.

    You don’t just jump on a plane and start searching the Big East for head coaching opportunities. The defense is fine – the offense is MUCH less stable than it was when Schiano got here – he’s turning players off, dividing them, defense is turning on offense, key players are NOT responding to the coach’s demeanor, way, philosophy. He doesn’t have the ability to diplomatically sell his agenda – to ANYONE – mostly because he doesn’t care to.

    It means to me that this thing gets RESET AGAIN – because this guy doesn’t mind creating a crap storm…he just hasn’t learned to swim in what he creates…once again it’s clear the coach has created an environment he cannot survive in.

    This time – my hope is that the owners and GM (if he survives) actually sit down and target a correct teacher/communicator – like Dungy. Except THIS time one who can also work with the talent that currently exists on BOTH side of the ball.

    I don’t have any favorites – but that’s only because I didn’t expect to be considering it. Schiano’s meltdown and forays into canibalism of his team kinda caught me by surprise. It’s Dom’s job to see if the guy can be salvaged – or to have a “Plan B” already established.

    If you look at the guys Dom put in place to help bring stability – the guys Schiano simply isn’t turning to or listening to – there is a ready made “Plan B” already in place. I’d say Butch Davis/Jimmy Raye (or vice versa) look like an ironic pair of highly paid “advisors” that happen to be in the right place, at the right time. Either Schiano starts listening – or they start coaching.

  113. Gt40bear Says:

    EPIC FAIL! 1st through 3rd rounders need to be stars for 10 years for a draft to be a success. Are ANY of these players going to be stars for the Bucs for even five years? Nope!