There Is No Spinning

September 12th, 2013

Naturally, when drama seeps from the walls of One Buc Palace like in recent days, such as the manufactured news that Bucs franchise quarterback Josh Freeman is no longer a captain and whispers of a classified team meeting that either did or didn’t take place before or after the Jets game, and the legitimate news that Freeman missed the official team photo session, there are bound to be all sorts of ways to spin this information.

The popular folks at, who write about the Bucs as often as Joe wrestles with Rachel Watson between the sheets in the wee hours, is now on the trail of the Bucs and they seem to believe a) either Bucs commander Greg Schiano or Freeman will not be with the Bucs at season’s end; and/or b) the news of Freeman missing the team photo is a plant by the team in an effort to use the spin cycle to the team’s advantage.

Schiano denied vote-rigging yesterday, saying, “it’s 100 percent false. If there was such a thing as a 102 percent, this would be it.’’

Which might be true! And wouldn’t change the level of dysfunction one bit. That Bucs players would even entertain the possibility that their head coach is out to get their quarterback is not a sign of a healthy locker room. Then there’s this report in today’s Tampa Tribune. “Multiple sources” claim Freeman did not show up for the team’s photo day last week. Don’t bet against this leak only coming out now as a way for the front office to sway public opinion: See, Freeman doesn’t deserve to be captain.

The Buccaneers have a brutal first-half schedule and could easily be 1-7 at the halfway point. It seems certain that either Freeman or Schiano won’t be back next year. The more immediate question is whether they will even finish the season.

Now, there’s no way to know if Schiano went all Dick Daley on Freeman, but what the hell would be the point of pulling such a stunt when the only end result is a blowup in your face?

Joe truly believes the “captain” moniker on a football team is an empty, vapid figurehead moniker. Schiano may be a control freak but he is not a megalomaniac.

Joe can categorically write that the notion Photogate being a plant by the Bucs is absurd on every level. Joe was working on this story for days before he broke the story and can flat out state not one person who works at One Buc Palace in any capacity had any communication with Joe about this story until team sources were approached.

Whether this Photogate flap is the public beginning of the end of Freeman in Tampa Bay depends on one simple thing: wins. If the Bucs win Sunday, all of this nonsense is on the backburner. If the Bucs make the playoffs, it is all forgotten.

It is no more complex than that.

79 Responses to “There Is No Spinning”

  1. lightningbuc Says:

    Joe, any news yet on if JFro has a ride to the game on Sunday? I’m going to the game, so let him know I can swing by and pick him up if need be.

  2. Oil Derrick Brooks Says:

    If the Glazer’s wanted to get rid of Freeman, I swear there would be people clamoring for new ownership.

    This is the height of comedy.

    If you want to be a Bucs fan, then be one. If you want to be a Freeman fan first, than at least have the balls to say it.

  3. Couch Fan Says:

    Free sucks under Rah, its Rah’s fault. Free sucks under Schiano, its Schiano’s fault. Conspiracy theory? I think not… there is a pattern here. And it dates all the way back to Josh’s college days where he sucked there to.

  4. The_Buc_Realist Says:


    I don’t know why the bucs will have to produce evidence that JFro-6pak is not a good leader/QB. Wait until the offense goes 3 and out, and listen to all the Boos in the crowd.

    Offical member of the “Mike Glennon Mob” “MGM”

    and remember, its not about what Glennon can do, but wait Jfro-6pak cannot do!

  5. Joe Says:

    I don’t know why the bucs will have to produce evidence that JFro-6pak is not a good leader/QB. Wait until the offense goes 3 and out, and listen to all the Boos in the crowd.

    Bingo. The evidence will be his body of work on the field.

  6. stevek Says:

    Wow, we really turned up the heat this week. This coming game is going to mean a lot, and be very spirited and emotional.

    Listening to Shaun King on WDAE right now, he thinks that Schiano and Freeman could both be gone.

    Shaun King says he has heard some thing about Freeman, but he hopes they are not true.

    This rabbit hole keeps getting deeper and deeper.

  7. Oil Derrick Brooks Says:

    I think Raphael is at the bottom of that rabbit hole, still digging.

  8. The_Buc_Realist Says:

    Who knew that the Bucs would be so much more exciting off the field then on the field.

  9. Unknown Says:

    Bill o Reilly and faux news are racist. Please don’t mix politics and sports. Use another example from a more credible source.

    You apparently didn’t read the article. It doesn’t mention O’Reilly or Fox News. Don’t be a drive-by reader. 😉 –Joe

  10. stevek Says:


    I agree, playoffs will cure all and it is not any more complex than that.

    Sorry for ripping Doomigg, he just struck a nerve yesterday with his inability to let a Buc Fan say their piece. I overreacted, just like I have since Sunday.

    I am shocked to see what state the Bucs are in right now. Shaun King makes a great point to close his interview: “I am the best blocker in the twitter world. When you disagree with someone’s opinion, attack their words and not the person.”

    Lesson learned, I will lay off Big-Dog, but I think he is full of “Bull Spit”, as he puts it.

  11. niko Says:

    There is no way that a QB not being in the team photo, doesnt come out. I dont see this as a comeback on the Bucs or Schiano.

  12. HouseOfBacon Says:

    The Bucs are my team and Freeman is their quarterback, so that’s who I support. I put my money down, and my butt in the seat at RayJay. That simple.

  13. The_Buc_Realist Says:

    lol @unknown

    yea, because there is not racism in sports. just ask the Eagles.

  14. Scotty in Fat Antonio Says:

    So…what or better yet WHO has been the common denominator here for the last 5 years of debacle? Two people. Freeman and “The Dom”?

  15. stevek Says:


    Good point, Raphael should know, Trix are for kids.

  16. bucrightoff Says:

    When the Bucs and Jets met in week 1, I knew a team that was a circus would lose and that would be the start of a long season likely with big changes,

    I just didn’t know it was going to be the Bucs.

  17. The_Buc_Realist Says:

    At this point, someone just needs to photoshop a picture of Schiano cutting wires in JFro-6pak’s car. That would be the only thing to put all these shenanigans over the top at this point.

  18. lightningbuc Says:

    “Shaun King says he has heard some thing about Freeman, but he hopes they are not true.”


    Is that all he said about this issue?

  19. stevek Says:


    That is about all King went into about Freeman, but he was more than willing to rip Schiano and Dom.

    Freeman has an interview in the next few hours, and we will see what kind of explanation (EXCUSE) we are given?

  20. lightningbuc Says:

    Where is Freeman’s interview? On 620?

  21. Skelly Says:

    What the Hell is going on here….

    Game 1 poor performance but some good signs also. We had a good offense last year, is there any reason to think that we can’t repeat. We lost Clark and underwood. Are getting our 2 best O-liners back. We upgraded the defense big time. Yes, bad start but whats with all the drama for your mama, fire schiano, fire Josh, 0-16, photo gate, players meeting, etc etc etc.????

    We proved we can beat good teams last year (falcons), and we are likely a better team this year. Free set franchise records last year and we put offensive players to the probowl, other than lineman, in who knows how long.

    So I repeat….

    What the hell is going on here?

    We lost to the JETS. Get over it fans… You guys do realize that we all play a part in weather the team goes forward with the current look or is pressured into changing course. I think its better if we all just chill a little bit. If we miss the playoffs or free looks like crap this will all take care of itself. For the moment, lets just support the team.

    GO BUCS…

  22. Stranger Says:

    All this began with drafting a QB in the third.

  23. MTM Says:

    Freeman is not looking good with King’s “issues” comment. Late to early a.m. events plus a weight loss is pointing in bad direction. IMO.

  24. Couch Fan Says:

    No all this began when we drafted a QB in the 1st.

  25. stevek Says:


    This all began in 2011, we were 4-2 and left for our London home game against the Patriots. The Buccaneers never made it to the game, and never made back.

    10-6 in 2010, and now this?

  26. lightningbuc Says:

    Not just drafted, but traded up to draft a QB in the 1st.


  27. Couch Fan Says:


  28. Stranger Says:

    @Couch Fan

    Cute. I get it, you don’t like Freeman.


    Someone did get fired for that. A lot of people actually.

  29. Bucfan66 Says:

    It will be interesting to see how Freeman will handle what is sure to be a hostile home crowd on Sunday. It will be a true test of his leadership ability in the face of adversity, especially after all these stories that have come out this past week.

    The whole captain issue is a bit disheartening though. If he had done a good enough job the past 3 years as a captain then there’s no way that he loses the “C” this year. No matter how good of a leader VJax or Davin is, Free doesn’t get replaced unless his teammates were looking for an upgrade at captain.

    And to all these people, including you Joe, saying that being a Captain is not that big of a deal: Go check out Dashon Goldson’s twitter page and see what he has to say about how honored he is to be a Captain.

  30. Nick2 Says:

    Too bad they wouldn’t let Freeman show up in Michael Jackson garb in the team photo. He certainly would have showed up then.

  31. ShutTheBucUp Says:

    stevek, that was against the Bears if I recall…

    anyway, time to circle the wagons and start playing hard. coach needs to step up and address all this crap with the media and with the team. squash it and start winning. this will clearly be the biggest test he’s faced so far as a head coach. the rabid media feeding frenzy against a coach who isn’t lovey dovey with the media.

  32. Mike10 Says:

    Joe, going to have to respectfully disagree w you on this one.

    Captaincy is very important and being that the QB is the captain of the offense come game day – it’s odd when the team chooses not to have him RETURN as cpt. Let’s also not forget Free has been here longer than most of the guys on this team, not being voted as cpt (when again, esp being the franchise qb) shows he has lost the respect from his teammates – that should, and needs to be there for this team to be successful.

    I’m sorry but being voted captain means as much not being voted captain…

  33. Couch Fan Says:

    Im crackin up here at the fact someone is blameing the back up QB for the ineptness of the starting QB….

    New excuses so far:

    Its the fans fault
    It’s the 2nd string QBs fault
    to be continued…..

  34. Andrew 1 Says:

    “wins. If the Bucs win Sunday, all of this nonsense is on the backburner. If the Bucs make the playoffs, it is all forgotten.”

    exactly Joe. I agree with you 100%. I said the same thing yesterday and was called “crazy” for it. looks like your crazy along with me.

  35. Skelly Says:

    That said,

    Captain is a huge deal. Having it taken away from you the year after you set records for the franchise is a bigger deal. Those saying its not are not being honest with themselves.

    Tom Brady the other day speaking to Michigan said being elected captain by his team mates in college was the high point of his career for him….

  36. Stranger Says:

    @Couch Fan

    Who’s blaming Glennon? Dude’s a rookie and hasn’t did anything.

  37. 76buc76 Says:

    The Eagles game last year. Was the day I fell off the Freeman wagon. Save it all you Freeman lover’s. I don’t want to hear your “defences fault” junk. Freeman did Nothing in the first half. Oh you Freeman lover’s must be holding your breath. The time has come. The nuce is tightning. I’ve allway’s thought Freeman was a good guy. But the dark side of Freeman is now rearing it’s ugly head. Not voted captian. Chances are his teamates no more about his life away from 1 buc place. Rumor’s arising about the fact he’s a partier. I mean this guy was a no show at his own camp. A real leader and captian (V-Jax) raced down to the camp to take his place. Then he skipped the team picture. If Freeman chokes this weekend…’s over people. If a QB goes down this weekend look for Freeman to get traded. The Brown’s and Viking’s might take him right now. Heck I’d send a 7th rounder and Freeman for Cassel. I called it “if we lose to the Jet’s, Freeman would be on the hotseat week 2.

  38. lightningbuc Says:

    I think what Joe was trying to get at with his captain comments is that captain picks and being a captain aren’t important enough for a coach to risk his credibility by manipulating and rigging the voting for it. That is how I read it.

  39. Nick2 Says:

    This sounds terrible to speculate on but everyone keeps saying that Freeman is immature and doesn’t care about the team. If you listened to the interview with Ron and Ian right after he missed that day of his kids camp something was wrong with him and he was rambling on the air. I hate to speculate but maybe he has some personal deamon and needs help. All the signs are there folks and I would hate to crucify someone as a bad person. He may have an issue that will come out later and if that is true I hope it comes out to the team now so they can get him some help.

  40. Oil Derrick Brooks Says:

    I’m looking forward to it getting pointed out that Freeman is not Dominick’s fault. He had no choice and HAD to draft him (and trade up!). He HAD to listen to first time head coach ANYWHERE, Rah. His first big move as GM, and he had no say in it.

    If nothing else, this place is ALL spin zone.

  41. stevek Says:

    I really hope this specific issue gets addressed today in Schiano and Freeman’s pess conferences.

    I am tired with the secrecy. Just come clean, turn over a new leaf and win on Sunday.

  42. Joseph Mamma Says:

    We all knew Schiano was going to have to win early and often for his controlling style to work at this level. If he can’t win, he won’t last long. It is obvious that he is giving Freeman a short leash and likes the rookie.

  43. Raphael Says:

    Freeman is a stud franchise QB and he will be with coach Sullivan after this year, it might be here or somewhere else. And I will be rooting for him…

    Wonder what the haters will say when they see how bad we are IF Freeman were to leave … Lmao

  44. Buc Fan #238 Says:

    Joe said ” Joe is convinced Schiano wants Freeman to succeed…”

    Well, I’m not convinced that YOU are convinced Joe.

  45. Raphael Says:

    One thing is for sure , Sullivan won’t be back next year with Schiano .

  46. Raphael Says:

    And if Freeman leaves who will the haters blame the mess on ?

  47. lightningbuc Says:

    Oil Derrick,

    Yeah, there is are few “spinners” on here who consistently tell us that Dom had no say in the Freeman draft, but had everything to do with drafting Doug Martin and Lavonte David because Schiano was too busy hiring water boys and janitors.

  48. Stranger Says:


    No one will be back at this rate. If they want to scapegoat Freeman, every other part of our team needs to play and play well.

  49. loung Says:

    what the fuck >>>> just one game >>>> dam>>>> relax>>>

  50. tony Says:

    Quit talking about the season we went 10 and 6! We had the EASIEST schedule in the nfl that year! Its so dumb to go back to that year when it was the easiest we have had. All of this crap right now is nothing more than media trying to find something to write about.

  51. stevek Says:


    The Buccaneers need to make the playoffs.

    Josh is digging his own grave.

    Why don’t we all take a backseat and see what Freeman has to say about missing team photos?

    This needs to be addressed, #5 must be accountable.

  52. stevek Says:


    The Buccaneers need to make the playoffs.

    Josh is digging his own grave.

    Why don’t we all take a backseat and see what Freeman has to say about missing team photos?

    This needs to be addressed, #5 must be accountable.

  53. bucrightoff Says:

    Just out of curiousity, who is signing Freeman as their starter? There are 3 high end QB prospects in the draft and another 3 very intriguing players. Freeman is going to cost 3-5 times what they will, except they all have potential going for them whereas you know what you’re getting with Freeman. Just looking at starters, these are the only teams I see considering Freeman

    Jacksonville (Nope, gonna draft a QB)
    Cleveland (Nope, gonna draft a QB)
    Minnesota (Possible, but Freeman isn’t that much of an upgrade to Ponder, Ponder also has 1 year left for cheap)
    Oakland (I’d imagine they’ll wanna give Pryor more than 1 season)
    Tennessee (Possible, though is Freeman that big an upgrade over Locker?)

    Thats it, thats the list, And with 6 potential QBs to draft, Freeman is no sure thing to be signed by any of them. He might be a backup next year.

  54. Couch Fan Says:

    No matter how good of a leader VJax or Davin is, Free doesn’t get replaced unless his teammates were looking for an upgrade at captain.


    Glad to see there are people who still use common sense.

  55. Stranger Says:

    I wouldn’t hold my breath about it getting addressed.

  56. lightningbuc Says:

    I think Schiano needs to be held accountable for not having JFro prepared for the team photo! Also, I’m sure the offensive linemen had something to do with him not showing up. They’re usually at the root of anything JFro does wrong.

  57. dp4life22 Says:


    If offense can play like it did last year and defense like it did last week things can change!!!

    this is the coaches 1st game of second season get a grip..

    at least he is working hard and not at strip club with players like your boy RAH!!1

  58. mvermulm Says:


    When Sully and Schiano have their QB, they’ll both be back. Freeman is not a good fit for the offensive system they’re trying to run, and the issues off the field only enhance their desire to replace him. Whether it’s best for the team in the short or long-term or not, the chances are good that Glennon will be starting by week 6. I for one, will still be supporting them just as strongly; just hopefully supporting less of a shipwreck.

  59. stevek Says:

    Dominick must answer for this too.

    He lost his pass for signing Haynesworth because of a perceived “need”.

    HOG WASH GM DOM will have to answer on this too.

    Notice that Dominick is nowhere to be seen when things go bad.

    Schiano is left to face this issue. When will our GM step up to the plate? Will he step up to the plate? I heard someone refer to Dominick being in “witness protection program” when things go awry.

    Dominick hired Schiano. Dominick traded up to draft Freeman. Dominick has gotten to change Head Coaches once. Maybe, Dominick deserves the chance to change QBs once as well?

    Schiano is getting a raw deal. He comes off as brash and Napoleonic, but the fact of the matter is, he is only bringing the BS issues he inherited to light.

    I have doubted Freeman based on his on field play. It sure looks like we are going to have a real issue on our hands, and maybe we will all finally get our explanation as to “why hasn’t 5 arrived?” Simply put, MATURITY is lacking in Freeman. Or atleast, that is how it seems to be shaping up.

    Schiano has a presser at 1:45 today and Freeman has one shortly after that.

    To the fans asking about Freeman’s radio show recording: I don’t think they post them to listen to outside of live. Sorry. I will let you know if a transcription is available.

  60. Couch Fan Says:

    And if Freeman leaves who will the haters blame the mess on ?


    Whoever it deserves to be blamed on?

  61. Stranger Says:


    Assuming Freeman isn’t here next year, he most likely wouldn’t start out right anywhere. The young needy teams are more likely to take a fresh QB to mold to their like so I wouldn’t count on him going there. Where’s he’s likely to end up are some of the better teams that feel they can correct him while he sits, and if tradition holds, that’s where he’ll screw us over.

  62. Couch Fan Says:

    I can understand your point on Dom. He does desserve as much blame as the rest, but to me Dom’s job is to get the talent here… which he has done. It’s Schianos job to get them to play… not Dom.

  63. Biff Barker Says:

    Joe, 66 nailed it on Goldsons post about being honored by his team mates voting him Captain.
    I think it matters… greatly too.
    It’s the senior players who need to keep the locker room together. When this team comes around, and it is going to, it will be on the broad shoulders of this guy, VJax, DJ etc.
    Simply too much pride and talent on the roster to cave.

  64. Couch Fan Says:

    Of course the 2 areas that mean the most, QB and D-Line, he has failed so far, with the exception of McCoy.

  65. Stranger Says:

    @Couch Fan

    “Dom’s job is to get the talent here… which he has done.”

    Partially. We’re pretty front loaded on talent. Behind a lot of starters are barren wastelands. Letting guys like Bennett, and to a lesser degree Miller, walk doesn’t help with that. That I’m not sure if we could convince Miller to be a backup. Not to mention we still need a TE and slot receiver. Essentially, in order for us to win remain competitive we’re hoping a lot of good fortune comes our way.

  66. lightningbuc Says:

    So Freeman is having a press conference, not an interview? Oh brother, what could possibly go wrong with the mentally fragile JFro having to explain all this in front of the media. That will NOT be a “No Spin Zone”.

  67. RBellBuc Says:

    Man, I didn’t mean to start another conspiracy yesterday, but all of you have to admit, Josh Freeman has been swept up in a media blitz krieg shite storm, and lunatic fans have gone viral. He’s in the last year of his rookie contract, and he wants the hell out of dodge. I mentioned this a couple weeks ago and people ignored me. Like I said, maybe he’s had enough and he just wants to finish his obligation before he moves on.

    I mean really, could you actually blame him for wanting to move on, especially on the positive side, when some of his own QB predecessors went on to have terrific careers. So, with his athletic ability he will finish this year and move on. I have no doubt he will lift the Lombardi trophy for someone else while we’re still jockeying for draft position. lol

  68. Couch Fan Says:


    I can’t dispute anything you’ve said. We have holes and overall Dom needs to be better. But he has clearly gotten better every year. And I believe we have enough talent right now to get to the playoffs. When you got like what 8 or 9 young pro bowl players on your team, your not gonna have a lot of depth.

  69. Couch Fan Says:

    Ok maybe its more like 6 or 7, point being we have a lot of cap space takin on real good players… depth is going to be hard to come by.

  70. Oil Derrick Brooks Says:

    The only person relieved by this chaos is Bowers.

  71. Stranger Says:

    I understand, but we can’t keep going into the season hoping everyone stays healthy. The football gods don’t like us that much.

  72. Stranger Says:

    @Oil Derrick Brooks

    He shouldn’t be. Him being invisible is a bad sign.

  73. Tackleblockwin Says:

    The thought of Schiano getting fired to me is scary. We have been down this road before. Not saying that Schiano is a great coach…but do we have a plan to replace him? As far as Freeman…who would replace him? Yes we drafted Glennon, but is he ready. Better yet, is Glennon the future? I know these questions have been asked many times before, but as of right now IMO dumping them both seems it would only hurt the team more.

  74. 76buc76 Says:

    They mine as well of phrased the captiansy vote. Have you given up on Josh Freeman. Yes or No. The only problem I have with Schiano on Sunday was. Him not ripping a strip off Goldson for his stupid penelty’s. I havn’t heard a sole rip Goldson about his penelty’s. The guy was everywhere making play’s, laying huge hit’s. But this is not the NFL of 20 year’s ago. Unless he didn’t get the memo. You can’t hit defenseless WR and you can’t lead with your head or launch yourself. It’s almost as thou Schiano is in favor of the big illegal hit’s. The Cumberland hit was OK because it was gunna be a huge gain. But the one to keep the drive alive and hand the Jet’s 7 point’s (might have been Barron). Take away Freeman’s safety and those 7 point’s and the fact the defence caused a turnover on the Jet’s 5. The D played great.

  75. Raphael Says:

    @ mvermulm …. If Glennon is the QB we might win 1 or 2 games …

    And did you see Sullivan throw his arms up when Schiano was yelling at him during the mess in the beginning if jets game .. Sullivan won’t be back … And it’s looking like Freeman won’t either ..

  76. Oahubuc Says:

    Question for those here who are leaders: Would you model Freeman or VJax and Joseph? Would you show up to even the most mundane events, mentor, and outwork everyone, or would you muddle through? Would you show strength and emotional maturity, or would you shut down?

    There is no controversy with the captaincy. Kids in their 20s intrinsically get that the likes of Freeman are not good leaders.

  77. tonytwocents Says:

    I already lost faith in Schiano…. but, with all this??

    Now add the Bucs Brass to my sh!t list for playing this game. That includes Dominik.

    And if the photoshoot incident is true. And the players meeting was on Free, then I cant defend this guy anymore.

    Now that the whole picture is coming together. I can admit I was a little hard, not to hard, but a little hard on Schiano, where Freeman was slacking while I kept defending him.

    Theres one thing I like about all this though… Its always healthy to be open. And it could only hurt the team more if they hide these incidents and let emotions linger.

    As far as the season goes?? Who the fu(k knows at this point…

  78. 76buc76 Says:

    If someone had told me the defence would only give up 16 point’s and force a turnover on the opposing team’s five. I would respond “dang not even Freeman could screw that up”. The defence got the only stop they should have needed. Our offencive drive prior to the stop was pitiful. Freeman is lucky the defence forced a 3 and out. The defence played a winning game. The Jet’s gave us the slant all day long. That’s a good thing because Freeman is money on the slant. Yes you read that correctly, I did praise Freeman. No passes to the tight end? I know Stocker has been a huge dissapointment. But the fact is Sully has taken out the 5-10 yard check down out of the playbook. Do to Int’s and Freeman horrendous footwork on short throw’s. 2 first half pick’s and a 21 point Saint’s lead at the half……..the Freeman era is over. After all Glennon played just as well thru camp and preseason. Have you seen Glennon in a game situation with Martin,William’s and V-jax? How exactly do all the Freeman lover’s know that Glennon suck’s. One thing I know is that Glennon was slinging it in the preseason. He didn’t try to be a safe game manager. Ya he’ll tthrow Int’s and fumble the ball. But we have that now with Freeman. He allway’s is among the leader’s in turnover’s. Couple that with a 54% comp per. If Glennon can even can reach 60% we’ll be better off. Buc fan’s will barely have a voice monday morning. Do to the constant “Glennon Glennon Glennon” chant’s

  79. Paul Says:

    Mike Florio is always at the source of Bucs lies.