Competition For Freeman Doesn’t Add Up

January 3rd, 2013

Bucs backup quarterback Dan Orlovsky took a whopping zero percent of practice reps with the first team offense this season. Orlovsky said it himself in a recent interview.

That’s not a sign of a regime that really believes in the benefits of competition at every position.

On Monday, Greg Schiano said he craves competition across his roster, and he didn’t rule it out at quarterback, buy Joe’s not fully buying that at QB. The evidence just isn’t there.

First, Joe, Schiano, and everyone else who understands sports, knows that competition only works if it’s legitimate. Otherwise, it’s not really competition, merely a preschool game of pretend. Also, established, driven and successful professionals don’t need competition to perform.

Schiano and just about everyone associated with the Bucs have talked about the extraordinary work ethic, dedication and hunger of Freeman, so it’s fair to say Freeman doesn’t need competition to push him to work harder. Also, Schiano repeats over and over the benefits of repetition, whether it’s learning plays or the details of the new Bucs culture. Schiano even went on a rant Monday about how repeating every process, from installation of plays to offseason practice routines, is absolutely critical to the Bucs’ success in 2013 and beyond.

So why exactly would a detail guy like Schiano, who treasures every one of his 1440 daily minutes, want to take precious practice time from Freeman so somebody can allegedly compete with him? And what quarterback would the Bucs invest in that has the ability to truly be competition for Freeman?

And why would this QB want to land in Tampa when there are so many teams desperate for a starting quarterback?

Then there’s the unrealistic matter of Schiano or rockstar general manager Mark Dominik having to tell Team Glazer that Freeman will earn $8.5 million in 2013, “but we need to invest in real competition for him.”

Sure, the Bucs could blow a coveted mid-round draft pick on a quarterback in 2013. That’s unlikely. But regardless, that quarterback would not represent authentic competition for Freeman next season.

The most Joe can envision the Bucs doing at quarterback this offseason is bringing in a third veteran quarterback for Freeman to learn from and to possibly oust Orlovsky. Nothing else is realistic given the marketplace.

67 Responses to “Competition For Freeman Doesn’t Add Up”

  1. BucsQcCity Says:

    Bring Alex Smith

  2. FearTheFlag Says:

    One key point about having a quality backup QB is if Freeman gets hurt you have to have someone who still gives you a legitimate chance to win. It’s not fair to the team or the fans to to have a backup that doesn’t meet that requirement.

    If Landry “Lance” Jones, QB, Oklahoma (Height: 6-4. Weight: 216) was still there in the 3rd round I say grab him. He has a 66% comp. If Freeman truly becomes the man then we can develop and likely have an above average back up. If Freeman doesn’t improve we have a QB with at least a year in our system.

    Just think if we don’t draft a decent QB or get one in free agency and Free tanks next year…then what?

  3. Vic Says:

    Why does everyone automatically assume Orlovsky stinks?

  4. bucrightoff Says:

    Bring in Matt Flynn. If he beats out Freeman, he saves the Bucs a disasterous, Sanchez-like extension for Freeman. If he doesn’t, he’s off the books in 2 seasons. Freeman isn’t a good enough QB to not have someone good enough to instill some fear into him. Keep Orlovsky or brining in another Orlovsky type just ensures more mediocrity from Josh next year.

  5. Sgt Mike Says:

    OK, so we have Mike Sullivan and Ron Turner helping to coach up Freeman. Tell me again why we think a never has been as a backup is a good tutor for Freeman? I agree with FTF that we go after a third rounder or at least a better prospect to take over in the event of a Freeman injury or implosion. I have never believed in having a stool pigeon of a backup QB. Don’t want to create a controversy just a competent backup who either knows his role or is waiting for his shot by learning behind a decent QB.

  6. Sgt Mike Says:

    @Vic, have you ever seen Orlovsky play? He was pretty bad on a really bad team when he was a spotty starter for Buffalo. Can he play? Yes. Is he the answer, even short term, if Free bombs or gets injured? No way. Orlovsky consistently made the bonehead play of the week on the BSPN network when he was the starter.

  7. Nick2 Says:

    I dont think the point is to get Josh competition as much as a fallback plan in case he just doesn’t get it in his 5th year. Lets face it next year is do or die for Josh Freeman. I cannot see any scenario that Josh has another year of excuses even if Sully leaves it will be put or shut up time for Josh. He basically tanked this year when we were in the middle of a playoff hunt. His eight interceptions in two key games doomed any playoff chances we had. The pick of Russel Wilson in the 3rd round has to open the eyes of Mark Dominick that being a QB in the NFL with the new more pass friendly rules have made the position less like brain surgery and more of something a competetent QB who DOESNT throw picks can handle. I say we draft a 3rd or 4th round QB as a stopgap in case Freeman implodes again with talent like Martin, Jackson and Williams around him.

  8. Free's a Boob Says:

    Ruined my morning. More of The Moron.

  9. Pinnacl3 Says:

    “Also, established, driven and successful professionals don’t need competition to perform.”- One of the Joes
    Freeman has only been rumored as being Driven. The other two are seriously up for debate.
    What quarterback recent memory has been mentored from the sidelines without having played from said mentor?? Honest question.

  10. SirustheVirus Says:

    QB Competition= getting a better back up then Orlosky because were DOOMED if Freeman goes down and he the next man up.

  11. Keith Says:

    Pinnacle, Freeman is a veteran at this point that just broke a bunch of Bucs records. What more do you want?,

  12. Miguel El Magnifico Says:

    Pick up Mallett from NE, trade Gosh to KC for the #1, then drop back in the draft to pick up the best QB available and a star defensive player. That would still leave them with the pick at #13.

    Mallett should be easy, inexpensive, cap friendly and ready to start.

    KC is very vulnerable to get their pocket picked.

  13. princespanky Says:

    If Aaron Murray declares which many people think he will we need to spend a decent pick on him.

    Local kid = check
    All the intangibles = check
    Can make intermediate throws = check
    Accountability = check (tossed a pick against Nebraska and came calmly off the field telling his team it was on him and the next play was a 75 yard bomb for a TD)

    For better or worse, to play or to hold a clipboard its a good idea to take a chance on a kid like that.

  14. Pinnacl3 Says:

    @Keith Broken records for one of the anemic offenses in the history of the NFL resulting in only 7 Wins=Empty Calories.
    I don’t mean to be a pessimist, but that’s exactly how I see. If Freeman were to break some real overall NFL record or even a Divisional record, it’ll be a different story.
    What I want is this guy to play 4 quarters of good to decent football. 4 Whole Quarters.

  15. Kennedy Says:

    Aaron Murray is not competition for Josh Freeman

  16. Nic Says:

    Teams can’t just plan to create a QB competition, more often times than not it happens spontaneously (most recently Flynn vs Wilson). We have way too many holes at other positions to go out and try to pry someone from another team. Put up or shut up, Freeman. Invest a mid-range pick in a QB (haven’t cared too much to look into it myself yet) so we have the ability to move on if need be. We’ve suffered in “Franchise QB Purgatory” before, doesn’t mean we have to lay down and accept Freeman for 5 more years. For the record I DO think he’ll turn it around next season.

  17. Gus Says:

    I am not oppose to drafting a qb. Look at the redskins for example or the patriots. If you get a guy like Cousins or Mallet who plays for one or two games and looks really good then you have a player with trade value for the next season. Low risk high reward taking a chance on a mid round qb. @princespanky Murrary would be perfect

  18. BKNYfootballhead Says:

    Zac Dysert from Miami (Ohio) will be a steal in the mid-round.

  19. Stranger Says:


    This isn’t Madden. The Pats aren’t parting ways with Mallet this late in Brady’s career. Not without us selling the farm.


    Murray is going in the top two round. Simple as that. If we select Murray in the first or second, that decision will KILL us. We have more pressing needs and other interesting options we can take instead of panicking.

  20. McBuc Says:

    Gus, the NE systewm makes everyone look good, check out Matt Castle. Also, we will have to see RGIII do it again, he looked like crap last week.

  21. SilenceTheCritics Says:


    That decision wont “kill” us if Josh turns out to be a dud next year. Would be much better going into 2014 with a QB with a little bit of experience under his belt rather than a full blown rookie.

  22. SilenceTheCritics Says:


    Anybody who can throw an accurate football, read a defense, make good reads at the LOS, have good pocket awareness, or can play all 4 quarters consistantly .. or any combo of these could give Freeman good competition. Any sane person could see that in Josh’s play through out his career unless you are one of these blind crotch riding Freeman homers.


    Can’t believe you really think competition for Freeman doesn’t make sense. So you think we need to just keep on keeping on with Freeman with the way things are after the last 4 years with him? I think that is crazy and dooming Freeman to failure next year and beyond.

  23. SilenceTheCritics Says:

    And for the love of god please stop acting like Freeman breaking a couple franchise records for a team with a mediocre history of offensive play is really doing something. This is by FAR the most talented offense we have ever had… it would be more telling if Freeman didn’t break these records. Don’t get me wrong, he disserves the recognition but it’s not like its some great accomplishment that instantly makes him MVP worthy.

  24. SteveK Says:

    Competition makes all the sense in the world.

    Let’s see who can perform under pressure.

    Freeman can’t be a star child without earning it.

  25. SteveK Says:

    Joe says:
    “The Bucs could blow a coveted mid-round pick on a QB”…

    “Blow” a pick? We blew the pick when we traded up to take Gosh Freeman a few years back. If Freeman was playing better, than we would not NEED to bring in a QB for competition.

    Kudos to your rocks tar GM, if he could draft it right the 1st time, then we would not need to bring in another QB.

  26. Andrew 1 Says:

    @ Joe

    Orlovsky is hardly competition.

    @ Vic

    the fact that the the coaching staff didnt believe enough in him to spell Freeman while he was struggling means that he stinks. if they had any faith in him to win a football game, then josh would most likely have been benched.

  27. Andrew 1 Says:

    @ Stevek

    Its always necessary to have 2 starting caliber QBs on your roster in case the first one goes down with an injury. you would then still be able to win games, or at least have enough faith in the backup to be able to win some games. so that fact that we dont have 2 starting caliber QBs mean we do “NEED” to bring in another one, regardless of how Freeman is playing.

  28. Ramdog Says:

    Yeh Orlovsky is the next Joe Montana – LOL. The whole reason why the Colts got Andrew Luck was Orlovsky.

    Both Schiano and Dominik are not happy with Josh’s play the last 3 or 4 weeks. However, I think they realize they have more pressing needs but there could be some good QBs that fall in the draft for one reason or another. It wouldn’t be a bad idea to snatch up one in the 4th or 5th round. We need someone with a big arm, accurate who can make good decisions and read defenses quickly. Of course the reason they fall to the 4th or 5th would be they have some knock against them. Height, arm strength, tendency to take too many hits, injury issues etc.

    Also, upgrade your backup from Orlovsky (Kyle Orton, Matt Cassell someone like that).

    To think you could get Mike Vick or Alex Smith is lunacy. Why would they come to Tampa and compete for a job when they can get paid the same and be guaranteed to start if they go to Arizona, Kansas City, Jacksonville and about half a dozen other teams.

  29. Eric Says:

    How bout that Boyd kid from Clemson?

  30. Amar Says:

    Easy Fix and Answer:

    I know most of Buc nation will disagree with me but I would be ECSTATIC if we worked out a trade for Mark Sanchez to compete with Freeman.

    Sanchez (other than this year) has done fairly well with a team that’s had hardly any tools on Offense, just a strong defense to back him up. The 2012 Jets were a mess on every side of the ball, does the 2012 Bucs sound familiar?

    Mark Sanchez just needs a change of scenery and with our offense I wouldn’t doubt or be surpised if he beat out and played better than Freeman.

    Remember Freeman at KState? Notice how his short pass accuracy has been tremendously horrible and as well as him under pressure?

    Well if you compare Sanchez and Freeman in college, I’m sure it wouldn’t be difficult to assume who had a better collegiate career…..Sanchez. Sanchez also took the Jets to the AFC Championship game TWICE and BEAT PEYTON MANTHANG.

    Again, Sanchez needs a change of scenery, a new offense with quality players and his DECISION MAKING, his SHORT (AND LONG) PASS ACCURACY, aaand UNDER PRESSURE would OUST Freeman! I’d put money on it.

  31. Pinnacl3 Says:

    @Ramdog The BUCS could attract some QB attention with the likes of Jackson/Williams/Martin/Nicks/Joseph. That’s assuming that the player wants to be a winner and not just collect a check. Novel idea, I know.

  32. Amar Says:


  33. Andrew 1 Says:

    @ Amar

    idk about that. I think that would be like the blind leading the blind. but if the coaching staff thinks that would help then Im all for it. I think a player like Matt Hasselbeck would be a great asset and teacher to Freeman.

  34. Stranger Says:

    You would also lose money Amar.

  35. PRBucFan Says:

    Come on now we all know you dont really believe that hahaha

    Don’t stir this pot lol

    “Maybe seeing how Freeman reacts to being pushed will give the Bucs an idea about the details of his new contract.”
    – If anything what you said, that is all the reason to do it.

    – Oh and why have any back-ups at all if that’s gonna be the mindset…
    Just get rid of competition at all positions while your at it. Bahahaha
    Funny stuff.

  36. mark2001 Says:

    When Favre was QB and Rodgers was behind him, did that ruin a good QB? When Rodgers was the starting QB and Flynn was the back up, did that ruin Rodgers? No. A quality QB won’t mind decent competition. No one should be handed a job and be anointed as the unquestioned starter. I’m suggesting we bring in a guy with some talent to help bring about some degree of competition, other than a journeyman. And if Freeman doesn’t have the mental toughness to keep the job, he isn’t going to be tough enough to perform in the big games.

  37. Northend Says:

    #5 didnt keep us out of the playoffs.a horrible pass rush and weak secondary/pass defense did.we fix that and we go to playoffs.Despite Freeman

  38. Stranger Says:


    Rodgers never had any competition. When Favre was there, he was the unquestioned QB until he retired. When Favre “retired”, Rodgers then got his shot and was appointed the unquestioned QB. Flynn and Brohm competed more with each other than Rodgers.

  39. MTM Says:

    Next year after the “Rockstar” is gone then the rebuilding will start. Until then its just going to be one bad pick after another. The D-line picks are not lighting up the world. The secondary positions are so thin its not even visible. If Ronde leaves it will be vacant. Isn’t the GM’s job to look ahead and draft or pick up FA’s to fill potential holes. Its not like there are a few holes that can be addressed in one year. It is a multitude of missing parts.

  40. PRBucFan Says:

    What’s this multitude?

    The D Line will be dominant if healthy

    …Cause last year wasnt the best draft we have seen here in a while huh?

  41. Ramdog Says:

    @Pinnacl3 you obviously do not know who the prospective QB free agents are in 2013 or that technically the best one out there by far is Joe Flacco.

    Here they are buddy knock yourself out trying to find the next Joe Montana or Tom Brady in that bunch:

    Luke McCown – ATL
    Joe Flacco – BAL
    Tarvaris Jackson – BUF
    Tyler Thigpen – BUF
    Derek Anderson – CAR
    Jason Campbell – CHI
    Josh McCown – CHI
    Bruce Gradkowski – CIN
    Drew Stanton – IND
    Brady Quinn – KC
    Pat Devlin – MIA – (Ex)
    Matt Moore – MIA
    Chase Daniel – NO
    David Carr – NYG
    Matt Leinart – OAK
    Charlie Batch – PIT
    Byron Leftwich – PIT
    Kellen Clemens – STL
    Rex Grossman – WAS

    Any of them strike you as any good ???

    Also trades for a QB half way decent are usually very costly to say the least (high round draft pick) and having them is no guarantee you will win – see Matt Cassell.

    We can get someone like David Carr and Matt Lienart, probably the best out there amongst the free agents. Oh and you think Josh is bad try Jason Campbell, Rex Grossman or Byron Leftwich and you will pray for the Josh to return.

    One of the better QB’s Vick/Smith who technically are not yet free agents most likely would not come here for what we would offer them compared to teams with no QB nor would they want to be backup.

    So the bottom line is Freeman is better than the Free Agent QB’s out there except maybe Flacco and Baltimore will sign or franchise him because they know how hard it is finding a good QB.

    Oh and for you folks saying trade for Geno Smith or anyone else in the draft most people think this years draft class is weak in QB. Considering what you would have to give up to get Geno Smith it probably isn’t worth it especially considering in the pros he could fall on his face just like a 6th rounder could win you 3 Superbowls and be one of the best QB’s in the NFL (Tom Brady).

    You all think it is so easy to pick franchise QB’s in the draft or out of a Grocery Store (Kurt Warner) then how come everyone in the league doesn’t have a franchise QB ?? The point is it isn’t. I work as an Engineer and there is a saying we have the less you know about something the easier it seems. Suffice it to say some people on this site know very little.

    That said I agree wholeheartedly we should draft a QB later 3 – 7th round and try to develop him as well as bring in someone better than Orlovsky. Every good franchise generally has a good QB and one developing in the background.

  42. BucfaninMi Says:

    they have competition,just activate Adam Weber from the practice squad. he might surprise us and Joshy.

  43. PRBucFan Says:


    With how bad Free’s been playing any of those names you listed would play better lol.

    Bad Free is bottom of the barrel.

  44. SteveK Says:

    Aaron Rodgers sat for 3 years behind Favre.

    Why would it not be wise to bring in a talented young QB to backup Freeman?

    Freeman needs a backup, and us Buc fans need HOPE at the QB position.

    No more misscommunications, own up to your mistakes Josh!

  45. mark2001 Says:

    Stranger…..If Rodgers hadn’t developed well and proven his worth, he never would have replaced Favre. If Flynn hadn’t showed something, Seattle would never had considered him. GB always had a pipeline of guys coming up….we need that as well. And you need a raw guy with some talent and a head on his shoulders to have that. That is what I would love to see. Have him hopefully carry a clipboard for a few years. If he develops, at least you can trade him. If not, you were at least building for something in the future. And if Josh goes elsewhere, maybe he can start or back up the FA QB you have to bring in until he is ready. Remember what happened when Favre and Opie were in Green Bay. Both won SB’s. It didn’t hurt either one, did it.

  46. Stranger Says:


    Freeman isn’t a vet in his mid 30s. If you want someone better than Dan O, that’s fine. But don’t expect anyone that can best Freeman.

    And miscommunications are a two way street.


    That wasn’t my point. I was just saying there was never any competition in GB. Once they decided that was their guy, that was it for them. Everyone else was just projects to them.

  47. PRBucFan Says:


    You best bet that if Freeman keeps up his bad play no one will care about anyone “besting” him he will be on his way out before we even know exactly who the replacement will be.

  48. Bucs55 Says:

    Is funny because a lot of guys talk like you’re playing madden lol trading josh freeman to the chiefs for the number 1 overall Lmao wow Idk why so many people have started to down josh freeman he has had 3 offensive coordinaters in the last 4 years in those 4 years he has had some of the worse defenses in bucs historys money was never spent until this resent year lay off josh it took eli manning a couple of years to learn this system and no he has 2 rings with ok defenses … Josh will continue to get better as the bucs keep putting pieces around no one would be avail to win with the defense constantly putting the offense back out there plus no one was complaining when he was putting great numbers up for a 5 week spand … Stop hating and start been loyal fans … It’sabucslife

  49. PRBucFan Says:

    No more excuses for Free Free

    Accuracy, reacting to pressure, not staring down receivers has nothing to do with any of that.

    This year is the year for him to put up or shut up/get out.

    If he can’t prove that he’s done playing Jekyll/Hyde he’s as good as done.

  50. Bb Says:

    Just get the best young guy we can find and find out who is best for our team.

  51. Miguel El Magnifico Says:

    This year Ryan Mallett was listed as the 3rd QB in preseason behind Brian Hoyer. I believe Belicheat did that in order to trade one of his back up QB’s to get some value before the final cut.

    The Browns organization is supposedly interested in Mallett but they don’t have a coach or GM in place and the Pats are in the playoffs.

    I believe Mallett can be acquired.

  52. Stranger Says:

    I doubt it Miguel, and if he can, he wont be cheap.

  53. SilenceTheCritics Says:


    If its fair for you to call us “haters” then its equally fair for us to call you a crotch rider. Bottom line is this. We lost because of bad defense and bad QB play. Make all the excuses you want, bottom line is we could of made the playoffs with a competent QB as well as a competent defense. To think otherwise is ridiculous and shows you are just blind to the true facts. I hope Freeman lights it up next year. As Joe always says, the Bucs will go as far as Josh takes us. If he doesn’t… he’s gone. Simple as that.

  54. Stranger Says:

    We make the playoffs with Freeman and a competent secondary.

  55. PRBucFan Says:

    We NEVER make the playoffs with Freeman playing like he is now.

    Even with all the tools necessary.

  56. Stranger Says:

    But that’s not entirely true. With a better defense, we take games like the Redskins, Eagles and the first Falcons game. Might have gotten the Giants and first Saints game as well. That would have been enough for a playoff spot with the current Freeman.

  57. PRBucFan Says:

    If Freeman would have shown up before the fourth quarter in all those games we could have won?

    If Free would have led the offense into closing out those games on their last possession on offense instead of giving the ball back to the other team the defense would have never had to be in the position to lose the game.

    Point is Freeman playing as horribly as he is, is not excusable.
    No matter what other problems on our team we have. Sure they have to get addressed but first and foremost this is a QB driven league so that is priority number one. Schiano sees it, thats all that matters. Freeman has run out of excuses, its now or never.

    I mean if Freeman was playing like an average QB that would be one thing, but he is far far far under par right now.

  58. SilenceTheCritics Says:

    If we ever got to the playoffs with Freeman playing the way he has his entire career so far, we would get smoked right out of the first round. 1 and done. It would be embarrissing We can’t beat good teams with a QB that only plays half a game. Yes the defense has its fault, nobody can dispute that. But that can’t be used as an excuse for why Freeman can’t do a dam thing for the first 2 quarters of every game.

  59. Stranger Says:


    Its not Freeman’s call whether the team go conservative or not. There are two people above him that make that decision.


    Backpedaling. Better QBs have gotten clobbered in the playoffs. If we made the playoffs then got embarrassed, that’s because of team effort, not Freeman.

    And for the record, Freeman and the offense have been significant more explosive this year to the point we were one of the better offensive teams in the first half.

  60. PRBucFan Says:

    However It is his job to execute the pass plays he does get. And for crying out loud
    is he so incapable as to make adjustments at the line?

    Any who, he failed to convert on those passes. They did not run it every down on everyone of those games.

  61. PRBucFan Says:

    *On the last drive of everyone of those games

  62. Stephen Says:

    Some of these comments are silly. Mallet? Ready to start? Says who and where’s the proof? Freeman is the best quarterback the bucs have ever had for an extended period of time. Wait till next season to see what kind of contract he will demand. I know he makes some bad throws at bad times but the next person that compares him to mark Sanchez, needs to find something else to do! Freeman is going to be fine. If our defense was just middle of the road this season we would be in the payoffs right now and no one is talking about a new quarterback. Go bucs 🙂 the future looks bright. (don’t jump ship)

  63. PRBucFan Says:

    If our QB just played average for the last 6 weeks of the season we’d be in the playoffs…

  64. Stephen Says:

    So I guess Freeman let Nick Foles throw for nearly 400 yards…. And he also let Bob griffen run for 30 or 40 yards at the end of the game when all we need is one stop… And he absolutely let Eli throw for almost 300 yards in the second half. Those three games don’t end that way were in the playoffs. Freeman is the least of our worries. We need an entire secondary and a ligament pass rusher way before we think about replacing Freeman. There isn’t any one out there with the up side Freeman has. And don’t tell me Alex Smith or Matt Flynn would be any better. One sucked balls for the last 7 years and the other got beat out by a rookie! And yes Wilson has been great but the Seahawks aren’t in the playoffs with out their defense. we need a defense that can hang on to leads, not a new quarterback.

  65. PRBucFan Says:

    So the defense missed all those passes…

    Failed to covert key third down passes, touchdown passes, wideopen passes, threw all those interceptions, fumbled the ball 10 times, panics at the slightest thought of pressure, struggles with accuracy? The defense allowed all that.

    You see how silly that sounds.

  66. Stephen Says:

    Well with your interpretation of my comments you might agree that there is plenty of blame to go around. The d is worse than free by a mile in comparison. Again my opinion.

  67. PRBucFan Says:

    My point in all of this was never that the defense wasn’t bad or that it did not to be addressed but that just because the defense has problems does not mean that Freeman gets a “pass”. He should be held accountable as well and to a higher degree. He has more responsibility as the leader of this team. “It all starts with #5” or so its said.

    Plenty of blame to go around indeed but with a greater position comes greater responsibility.

    It’s been fun, respect ur thoughts