Numbers Suggest Aqib Talib Below Average
November 2nd, 2012
Just as Joe predicted (to himself) yesterday, and the prediction continued today, the pro-Aqib Talib faction, blinded by potential while unable to see the facts, were outraged that Bucs rock star general manager Mark Dominik was able find a sucker to cough up a fourth round pick for a guy the Bucs were going to let walk away after his contract expired in February.
Bill Belicheat was the sap this time, apparently a move of desperation as his toasty secondary is getting lit up right and left.
As the old cliche goes, any port in a storm.
The numbers crunchers of ProFootballFocus.com have monitored Talib’s play this year and their numbers and calculations reinforce what intelligent Bucs fans have seen: that Talib is grossly overrated and at best, is an inconsistent cornerback on (when he began his four-game suspension) the NFL’s worst pass defense.
How bad was Talib getting roasted? Some 66 percent of the balls thrown his way were completed. Doesn’t sound much like a lockdown corner to Joe.
Here are the gory details Twittered by PFF:
@PFF: Talib this year: 36 targets, 24 receptions (66.7%), for 399 yards and 1 TD given up. 1 INT, 6 PDs, QB rating of 101.5 into his coverage
That’s 16 yards a completion Talib averaged which is no less than outrageous! Myron Lewis could do just as well without all the drama and for a fraction of the cost.
As veteran columnist Gary Shelton once inferred this season on TampaBay.com, if you are, at best, an inconsistent cornerback on the league’s worst pass defense, just what value do you bring?
Apparently, in the poker room of Dominik, a fourth round pick.
November 2nd, 2012 at 5:11 pm
Keep in mind how tight Schiano and Bill are. Im sure he was well aware of the risk involved and that he might only be renting Talib for the rest of the season.
I think this was the case of two friends helping eachother.
November 2nd, 2012 at 5:22 pm
Steve are you suggesting that Belichick sabotaged his team to help Schiano out by taking a risky trade?
November 2nd, 2012 at 5:28 pm
I sure the conversion between Greg and Bill was “Bill he is a nice guy and he means well but he is a screw up, maybe you can help him out. He has “potential” “. He goes back to Dominik saying” This guy bought the potential line you were right! lol”
November 2nd, 2012 at 5:35 pm
I think it was a great trade for us. I think Talib was very overrated and a huge headache. I was completely with Joe until I read this: “Myron Lewis could do just as well”. Let’s not go overboard.
November 2nd, 2012 at 5:36 pm
That picture of him getting stiff armed is a CLASSIC!
November 2nd, 2012 at 5:49 pm
As I said yesterday when the story broke, much better to get a 4th rounder in the middle of the season than a middle finger out the door at the end of it….or something to that effect.
November 2nd, 2012 at 5:50 pm
Numbers weren’t great, but with no pass rush, how great do you expect them to be for any of the db’s. so I hope the guys up front no they gotta pressure the qb or this thing will go further south in a hurry
November 2nd, 2012 at 5:51 pm
just out of curiosity; who do they have as the current best and what kind of numbers do they have?
November 2nd, 2012 at 6:16 pm
I’m glad he’s gone and that we got something for him. Really we all knew we weren’t going to resign him after this pill thing. Showing these stats on Talib better show Mark and Greg we need CB’s in this next draft class. If Talib was that bad and he was are best corner well thats the reason were 31st in the league in pass defense.Honestly they could draft 2 CB’s in the 1st ad 2d round make them my # 1&2 and put Wright as the nickel cause he isn’t no starter in this league.
November 2nd, 2012 at 6:21 pm
Please pass this info on to Booger McFarland who has been going on ad nauseam the last two days in support of Talib.
November 2nd, 2012 at 6:24 pm
i glad we got rid of the trash,, now lets get the rest of the drugies out of here. and play football
November 2nd, 2012 at 6:37 pm
@Rrsrq
The lack of pass rush isn’t hurting the run defense. The pass defense certainly looked stout on Thursday night(I know it was Ponder). I think Talib was a mediocre talent with way too many issues to keep around, and I am stoked we got a 4th for him.
November 2nd, 2012 at 6:45 pm
I don’t know, we’ve got people on this board that claim he’s the best CB we’ve ever had. I’m sure they know better than those of us with eyes.
November 2nd, 2012 at 6:52 pm
I think Talib always did just well enough to keep us from doing a major upgrade at corner. Now that he is gone I hope we go out and spend some quality picks on DBs this draft but dont forget about the O-Line!
November 2nd, 2012 at 6:55 pm
Dominick will easily turn Talibs 4th into an early second somehow cause he seems like a very methodical drafter which he has shown in this past draft with trading back into the 1st to get Martin without having to give a 1st in return the next year, and also waiting it out and trading up in the 2nd and getting David
November 2nd, 2012 at 6:57 pm
Hey Joe,
Casual fan here, so forgive my ignorance, but does a defensive line’s lack of pressures and sacks have anything to do w/ how productive DBs might be?
If so, how does our DL measure up as far pressures/sacks is concerned?
November 2nd, 2012 at 7:10 pm
I dont know how anyone cant rightfully question our GM any more. Every 1st round pick is a Starter and has potential to be much more. He has completely rebuilt and improved this team at almost every position. Every trade seems to work out in the end. The few misses are countered by big hits. Every bit of adversity has been handled.
What freaking more can you ask for?
November 2nd, 2012 at 7:28 pm
Talib was a risk when he was drafted and has proven that the label was warranted since he’s been in Tampa. A well below average CB compared to the rest of the league, there’s really no reason to keep him. Not once has he demonstrated the ability to be a ‘shut down corner’ or even one that does it 75% of the time. At the end of the day, I think the team was willing to work with him if he was trying to be smart and get better. But he wasn’t and at the end of the day, you can’t fix stupid. If he was unwilling or unable to help himself, the organization can’t continue to hang themselves out there. The level of talent he brought to the team wasn’t worth the headache.
November 2nd, 2012 at 7:29 pm
He’s also rated at as the 17th best corner in football on the same site. Stick to reporting. Every time you try to evaluate or editorialize about something football related you come off as uniformed.
November 2nd, 2012 at 7:34 pm
“I dont know how anyone cant rightfully question our GM any more. Every 1st round pick is a Starter”
How about selecting a Pro Bowler once in a career? How about a top 5 player at a position?
Rebuilding this team seems to consist of dumping early round draft picks for 7th round picks.
If he was my stock broker he would be fired years ago. “Hey, Senor Grande, remember that stock (BOZO) that I thought had such great potential, you bought 1000 at $100. Well, I saved the day and rebuilt your portfolio, I sold them for $25,000.”
“What freaking can you ask for?”
November 2nd, 2012 at 7:36 pm
What freaking more can you ask for?
November 2nd, 2012 at 7:53 pm
That’s a fair point Miguel, and you may end up being right. However, I think by the end of this year, we will have some of his draft picks eating pineapple. GMC, Barron, Foster, Martin, Williams, Freeman, and David all have a legit shot at it. Since his most experienced player would be in his fourth year (but most are much less), that’s actually pretty good. Name me another team that has that many potential guys drafted within the last 4 years. Tampa is always going to be at a disadvantage getting people to Hawaii because the casual fan can’t name more than a couple players on the Bucs, and they never really see us play. However, those guys all deserve heavy consideration, but there’s a long way to go.
As for getting rid of early round picks, there have actually been few and far between. Talib wasn’t his pick, so I assume you weren’t referring to him. Price has a career ending injury (despite the fact that you believe he was injured running the “gauntlets”). Other than those two, not sure who you are referring to. At least he didn’t draft Dexter Jackson, and at least he got something in return for them. It’s better to realize your mistakes and get something for them, versus be stubborn and get nothing. But every single GM in the league makes mistakes in the early rounds. EVERY SINGLE ONE. Expecting perfection out of a GM is ridiculous.
Funny thing is, you have on numerous occasions said this team is talented enough to win the Super Bowl (if we didn’t have the Little General coaching us). Yet you are now saying Dominik should have been fired years ago? I’m so confused. Who do you think built this Super Bowl caliber team? That would be the GM last I checked. If you believe it isn’t the GM, then who is responsible? I am on the edge of my seat waiting for this one. My money says you disappear from this thread like Chip Kelly from a tough non-conference opponent.
November 2nd, 2012 at 8:43 pm
El Idiotico is too busy reading his own mindless rants. The Bucs have been very unlucky with numerous injuries in recent years. GM’s can’t be held responsible for unforeseen injuries to top draft picks and free agents. Dominik is no Rich McKay, but he is doing a good job, especially once the Glazers opened up the checkbook. Rome wasn’t built in a day. 8-8 is possible this year. Next year, with a few more well researched draft picks, the Bycs are playoff bound. Go Bucs!
November 2nd, 2012 at 8:45 pm
El Idiotico is too busy reading his own mindless rants. The Bucs have been very unlucky with numerous injuries in recent years. GM’s can’t be held responsible for unforeseen injuries to top draft picks and free agents. Dominik is no Rich McKay, but he is doing a good job, especially once the Glazers opened up the checkbook. Rome wasn’t built in a day. 8-8 is possible this year. Next year, with a few more well researched draft picks, the Bucs are playoff bound. Go Bucs!
November 2nd, 2012 at 9:01 pm
Finally some facts to back up what I have been saying.. Taliban sux!!
November 2nd, 2012 at 9:11 pm
Miguel
I agree another wasted 1st round pick from the Allen/Gruden Era, well out side of Joseph all there picks were a waste.
November 2nd, 2012 at 9:16 pm
Talib is not an untalented CB. But he is a serious risk-taker, sort of a ”high risk, high reward”- type. Not sure that flies with the current regime. He is gone & the deal was good.
November 2nd, 2012 at 9:42 pm
@Mike J
Talib = A less talented Deangelo Hall
November 2nd, 2012 at 9:43 pm
Myron lewis the waste of a 6’2 200lb frame..he has been hurt his whole buccaneer career
November 2nd, 2012 at 9:53 pm
Most of those stats came against the Giants.
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/09/20/back-and-forth-with-nicks-and-talib/
November 2nd, 2012 at 9:57 pm
Talib never lived up to the hype of a 1st round pick. He was never a shut down corner. Dom pulled a fast one IMHO, and got us a 4th rounder out of someone we would never have resigned anyway. The Pats are making a playoff push, we are not. They needed a cornerback desperately, and paid through the nose for it.
November 2nd, 2012 at 10:03 pm
We pay eric wright millions we could of got laron landry and let rhonde play corner..barron and landry wow hardhitting..we could of got asante samuel..or atari bigsby..For years i wondered who evaluate buc talent we have always sucked. Look wat frisco did.. Moss Manningham Jacobs all of the under ten mill..c’mon man
November 2nd, 2012 at 10:14 pm
The bucs are a team that pays plyers to ride the pine..hayward stovall ryan nece elbert mack asante nicholas the list goes on and on!
November 2nd, 2012 at 11:28 pm
^You are a dimwit
November 2nd, 2012 at 11:28 pm
Hate to tell you this buddy, but all teams pay their players. This is professional football genius!!!!!!
November 2nd, 2012 at 11:34 pm
Love this trade. Talib is just too consistently stupid off the field.
Best of luck to him.
The extra 4th round pick is huge.
November 2nd, 2012 at 11:45 pm
More ammo to pursue “3 coveted players” in the upcoming draft.
Draft 3 more starters, work the board, and add one solid outside FA. If we can do it again, then we may be a playoff team.
November 3rd, 2012 at 6:06 am
Hawaiian Buc Says: November 2nd, 2012 at 7:53 pm
That’s a fair point Miguel, and you may end up being right. However, I think by the end of this year, we will have some of his draft picks eating pineapple. GMC, Barron, Foster, Martin, Williams, Freeman, and David all have a legit shot at it.
.
I know he’s not a Dominck pick, but I think Barber has a strong chance to make the pro bowl one more time if he stays healthy.
To those saying he should be moved back to corner though…I don’t think that isa wise idea. Ronde was among the best…but he just isn’t fast enough anymore. He would get beat too often.
No…he’s playing the perfect position right now. We’ll just have to hope the Bucs can find a diamond in the rough.
Also…for those speaking about the lack of quarterback pressure…watch the games. The sacks are not there, but the pressure is…aside from a few obvious exceptions. Frankly, given the way injuries have hot BOTH lines, I’m amazed at how well they are performing. Can they get better? Certainly.
November 3rd, 2012 at 4:22 pm
@Pete,
I think Ronde has the best chance of anyone to make the Pro Bowl. He has played excellent, and he has name recognition (probably the most important part of the Pro Bowl). Vincent Jackson should be a lock if he keeps it up as well. Both our punter and kicker deserve consideration.