Another Kick In The Groin

July 24th, 2012

Respected Pat Kirwan, the former Jets front office executive and linebackers coach, ex-Bucs scout and current analyst for and host on SiriusXM NFL Radio, is yet another pundit that thinks the Bucs will be worse in 2012 than in 2011.

This is insanity.

Perhaps Kirwan’s judgment here is somewhat clouded by his longtime connection to Raheem Morris? Joe can’t come up with another explanation. Kirwan projects the Bucs will win three games and land in fourth place in the NFC South behind Carolina (7-9).

Tampa Bay — 3-13: Greg Schiano will eventually turn this franchise around, but it will take time. The Bucs defense gave up over 37 points a game in the second half of last season. Tampa Bay might want to be a running team, but what will they do in game when they’re trailing in the second half?

As Joe’s written previously, the Bucs have a win-now offense with all kinds of offensive talent. They had a top-10 offense for the second half of the 2010 season, and this current bunch should be at least as good.

Only one team in the NFL last season among the top-13 ranked offenses had a losing record. That was Carolina (6-10) with the seventh-ranked offense. That’s no coincidence.

Joe doesn’t know if Mike Sullivan is a sound playcaller. Nobody does. But there is no reason to believe the Bucs should finish 3-13. If the 2012 Bucs finish 3-13, then another housecleaning is in order.

50 Responses to “Another Kick In The Groin”

  1. Knucknbuc Says:

    If we finish 3-13 schiano will have had to of pulled a bobby Petrino.

  2. TrueBlue Says:

    It’s not just about wins and losses to determine how well a new coaching staff is doing. With wins any ole way will do. But with losses there is a difference between blowouts and losing by 4 points so close to to the end zone that you can sniff it between the uprights. Play well and this new coaching staff survives regardless of record.

  3. TrueBlue Says:


  4. Chris@Apple Roof Cleaning Says:

    Well, we are fixing to find out if it was coaching, or what ?
    What I saw when we started losing was this. We looked like we simply just were not as good talent wise, as the teams beating us.
    Both our O and D Lines were being dominated.
    I was never a Raheem Lover, but one has to wonder if it was all his fault.
    Let’s hope so, if not, it means Dominik has not drafted well, and that will take yeARS TO UNDO, sorry about the Caps.

    I personally like reading about the Bucs from different perspectives.
    I respect Pat Kirwan, let’s all hope he is wrong.

  5. Kennedy Says:

    3-13 and I’m leaving town

  6. George Says:

    3-13 or 4-12 are predictions made only by clueless morons or people who hold some kinda grudge against the Bucs or some part of the organization. It would be hard to look at their offseason and not *at least* predict modest improvement… So, we’ll just call this another clueless moron spreading anti-Buccaneer propaganda.

    I think a reasonable pessimist would say 5-11 or 6-10.

  7. Eric Says:

    Could be optimistic.

  8. jb Says:

    3-13 and most fans will help them pack for their move to L.A. How can these supposed “KNOWLEDGEABLE” pundits, say this kind of crap? I always liked Kirwan, and know he was always fond of Raheem Morris, so this must be him trying to make it like it really wasn’t Morris’ fault for the pathetic meltdown last season. Either way, my opinion of Kirwan as a good source of NFL info just went way down!

  9. thomas 2.2 Says:

    Listen guys – I know many of you were duped into believing that the prior regime was actually put into place to improve the football product, and not solely for budgetary reasons.

    I know, I know that sounds completely idiotic today (to think that Gru, Monte, Allen and 9 or more established vets etc were replaced by Rahrah and Domdom, Nugent, Crowell, Mike Clayton, Leftwich, Ward, Phillips etc ) but that is okay.

    This team was taken down to probably the worst NFL franchise in league history by the end of the season. You don’t change staffs and bring in a few free agents and draftees and contend immediately. It doesn’t happen.

    If it does, Schiano is the second coming of Lombardi.

    Look at the Philly all-stars last year, there is an acclimation period – and the Reid Eagles were light years ahead of the rahrah and domdom bucs.

    I am hoping for 6+ wins and believe it possible – but if they win 3 games, especially if they start 0-8 or 1-7 you can blame it squarely on the Glazers /rahrah and domdom.

    I think if they win 3 games – DomDom should be demoted to kicking game scout or fired and a real GM who understands NFL should be brought in.

  10. Kyle Says:

    I say they fire Dom and bring in Thomas so then we wouldn’t have to endure his constant whining

  11. ClayBURN94 Says:

    Just to remind you guys, Ej biggers said he knows more about this defense than the defense run for the past two years. And Gerald McCoy is just being taught how to tackle…

  12. Snook Says:

    Clearly, Kirwan is unaware that our DC/HC last year was a moron. And is he aware that Raheem is no longer in Tampa?

  13. Snook Says:

    Thomas, I see your point. But its already clear that Schiano knows what he’s doing much more than Raheem. That in itself will add 2 wins to this team. So if that means, 6-10, so be it. I’m expecting 7-9 to be honest. Adding 3 wins to this team won’t be difficult. Hell, if we had a halfway decent DC last season, we would’ve won at least 2 more games.

  14. st augustine Says:

    if this does come to fruition (imo) it all depends on HOW we lose those 13 games. if we barely lost the said 13 games and our players NEVER gave up i can deal with it (not to mention we’ll have another high draft pick). go bucs!

  15. T in Orlando Says:

    I’ve been listening to Kirwan and Tim Ryan on Sirius for about 5 years now, and they’re great at analysis and breakdown of games/players, and are extremely good at talking football with any fan; from beginner to those that have a knowledge of the game that can only be surpassed by those who played or coached it.

    That being said, prognosticating is not their strength (of course he’ll be the first to tell you this). It’s almost as though they’re so strong with the Xs and Os, they’re not particularly good at accounting for the intangibles.

    While I generally respect their thoughts and takes, I believe Mr Kirwan got this one wrong, and we should be looking at 6 or more wins. And no one should be shocked if Tim Ryan calls for only 2 wins by this team, as he’s been down on the Schiano hire since day one, believing whatever inside sources he has, that Schiano is the next Bobby Petrino.

  16. Eric Says:

    The important thing is lining up the toes and drinking water.

    I expect improvement in those areas.

  17. Macabee Says:

    It is as understandable for the experts to say 3-13 as it is for diehard fans to say 10-6 at this point in the season – not one snap has been taken in training camp and everything at this point is pure conjecture.

    Thomas made some good points until his last two paragraphs started to cast blame. Sure there is blame to go around, but we just put 2 players on PUP and lots of questions on the defense. Not to mention that we’re playing a schedule that the very best teams in the NFL will have difficulty with.

    The Bucs will go as every NFL team goes and that’s how well the QB performs. If Freeman is back, the Bucs are back and they will do better than expected. That may not be the playoffs, but it will be good enough that we will know with another draft and a modest FA, we’re on the road to respectability.

    I’m already on record stating that I don’t care about the win/loss record this year. I just want to see our young men mastering their positions and being in the fight from the coin toss to the final whistle.

    Next year, if necessary, I will join Thomas in the witch hunt!

  18. Drew Says:

    I’ll enjoy reading about the naysayer broadcasters eating humble pie later in the season.

    Joe… articles like this help to satisfy my insatiable appetite for Buccaneer news.

  19. Jose Negron Says:

    This is a guy I’m going to desagree with, like many other analyst, (know it alls) that like predicting, but always fail in the pronostics , at the end of the season. Like that other guy, that predicted the Bucs were not gonna win more than 3 or 4 games in 2010, and ended up swallowing his tongue, well guess what, here’s another one, who’s going the same way. Like I said before, that same group of players of 2010(remember “Yungry”!!), well I believe they still are, and they are coming back, this year, better, with better coaching, and with a great group of veterans, and are ready to win NOW. To this guy, Pat Kirwan, we’ll see you a the end of the season, and I have a big feeling, I’m going to be smiling!!!!

  20. The Dutcher Journal (Pete Dutcher) Says:

    You guys just don’t get it. Every time one of these guys say we’ll win…we lose. Every time they say we’ll lose…we win.

    Last to first and first to last.

    We’re going to surprise a lot of teams this year…and a lot of naysayers.

    The problem I have with these national guys down talking the Bucs is that there are a lot of fair weather fans who only get news from guys like that…and it will affect ticket sales.

  21. thomas 2.2 Says:

    Macabee makes some excellent points:

    If Free sets the world on fire, all best are off – they could make the playoffs.

    Maybe Free and VJ have some instant chemistry, like Brady and Welker, and start putting up 35 points per game. I sure hope so. Adding the Muscle Hampster behind Carl Nicks will improve both the running and passing games.

    You also can’t predict key injuries to other teams – remember 2010 – yes “smoke and mirrors” 2010.

    Week after week we drew a 2nd or 3rd string QB, Max Hall, Jimmy Clausen, Matt Moore, Troy Smith, Drew Stanton and Charlie Whitehurst to name a few.

    Wow! What a murderers row. LMAO

    If we play that list of QBs again – we are sure to win 10 games, at least.

    So yes, prognostication is at its best hypothesis, at work total crapshoot.

    I agree Schiano will be excellent and could not possibly be more of an improvement than Joe’s Coach of the Year, Rahrah.

  22. Macabee Says:

    Correction from last post: That’s 3 players on PUP, Bowers, Okoye, and Hayward.

  23. thomas 2.2 Says:

    at worst . . .

  24. ladyz Says:

    We will be alright if Free ,Mans Up!

  25. Drew Says:

    Training camp!!! Two days and counting!!! Go Bucs!!!

  26. OAR Says:

    Wow Thomss, too funny! You blame other teams injuries on their bad play and why we won, but dont take that into account when your hating on McCoy and other Bucs?

  27. ladyz Says:

    It sounds like Kirwan went to the same journalism school as Rick Stroud.

  28. OAR Says:

    We should win atleast two more games, just wearing those rubber shirts!

  29. Paul Says:

    In other words, Kirwan is saying that the Bucs will quit on Schiano too.

  30. Paul Says:

    In that pic, he’s kind of got that crazy look in his eyes, like the old people with dementia have.

  31. Have A Nice Day Says:

    I love me some Kirwan, but I hope that man is dead wrong.

  32. Pete 422 Says:

    If they get behind early, continue running the ball & executing your offense.

  33. Deminion Says:

    I’ve said 10-6 u never knw I. The NFC especially the NFC south

  34. J-VILLBUCS Says:

    We’ll do fine, I mean will run with Blount…. Then with Martin….. Then…with Smith, and if we don’t get a touchdown by then will run with Freeman!!!!! Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha!!!

  35. TheRealVince Says:

    If they go 3-13 I’ll walk to the 50 yardline and puke.

  36. Sgt Mike Says:

    I guess they need some kind of fodder to pass as real NFL analysis during the slow months. While I don’t exactly like the fact that Schiano didn’t upgrade the LB corps, I do think Schiano is a much more competent and definitely more suited to guide a young group of talented players develop. I have no dillusions of super bowl but definitely better and much more disciplined football. Go Bucs!

  37. BigMacAttack Says:

    Yeah whatever Kirwan.

    Its really early to make predictions before camp. There will be injuries for teams between now and then, hopefully not the Bucs. Injuries are the wild card that changes everything. If Cum Spewton or Screw Brees were to go down in camp, it would flip the NFC South on its head. So really Kirwan, STFU, you don’t have enough information at this point to make an educated prediction. He is just pulling it out his A$$ like the rest. Atlanta lost their MLB last week to injury. Anything can happen on any given day. Someone said the other day they like to wait until week 4 to make predictions. I think that is pretty smart because you get a good feel for what a team can do and how they stack up. So far Kirwan just has a major stack of poop backed up and flowing out his mouth. D Bag Hater.

  38. thegregwitul Says:

    I said it before in another thread and I’ll say it again – Let ’em throw dirt on the Bucs, I want 1-15 predictions, I want oatmeal loving, popcorn eating, circle jerking Peter King to trot out a 2-14 prediction, I’ll take all of these CRAZY 3-13 predictions, keep ’em coming. The Bucs have a ton to prove dropping 10 games in a row, but this team has legit talent on the offensive side of the ball and the defense should be improved, because it can’t get much worse (can it?).

    I’ll take under the radar everyday of the week.

  39. Danny Says:

    What were Kirwan’s predictions in 2010 and 2011?

  40. The Dutcher Journal (Pete Dutcher) Says:


    I don’t believe Okoye is going to miss camp. Last I heard he was ready to go. I take anything with Stroud says with a grain of salt. I did request confirmation from the Bucs though.

  41. The Dutcher Journal (Pete Dutcher) Says:

    I agree with thegregwitul!

  42. j lynch Says:

    Injury riddled d line sorry linebacker play holes filled with rookie a couple of veteran players on defese sprinkled in??? better scheme and coaching… defense may improve some but hoping there better and really being better we will se…

  43. Have A Nice Day Says:

    @Pete the team has announced that Okoye, along with Heyward and Bowers, will start the year on the PUP list.

  44. FactsMatter Says:

    Doing a rough look at the schedule:

    6-10 Panthers – Beatable
    13-7 @Giants – Ugly Loss
    8-8 @Cowboys – Probable loss
    5-11 Redskins – Beatable
    7-9 Chiefs – Beatable
    14-4 Saints – Beatable (Saints will become a train wreck at some point)
    3-13 @Vikings – Very Beatable
    8-8 @Raiders – Probable loss
    8-8 Chargers – Beatable
    6-10 @Panthers – Beatable
    10-7 Falcons – Beatable
    9-9 @Broncos – Beatable (They have a bad OL and no running game now – not exactly something conducive to QB health)
    8-8 Eagles – Probable loss (unless the “Dream Team” starts celebrating their “Dynasty” too early into the season)
    14-4 @Saints – Beatable (train wreck prediction)
    2-14 Rams – Beatable
    10-7 @Falcons – Probable Loss

    Say 8-8 +/- 2

    There aren’t a lot of dominant Playoff teams on the schedule. Saints twice but they will be a train wreck this season. That leaves Falcons twice (divisional games can be tossups), Giants, and Denver as the only playoff teams on the schedule.
    A bunch of .500 teams (5) and bunch of sub .500 teams (6). Then throw in the Saints.
    The team’s record will depend on how well everyone learns the playbook on both sides and whether Josh Freeman can improve… or needs to be replaced. The defense will be better than the “analysts” expect.

  45. Says:

    I don’t mean to sound like Thomas but look at the schedule. Its not an easy one. Kirwin is thinking we might beat Washington, Minnesota, and St, Louis. Well, what about Oakland? IN many times have we traveled to the West coast and won? We got smacked 3-48 last time vs SF. We could easily go 0-4 or 1-3 before the bye. Then, we might win 1 or 2 in the next 4 games. Then we play San Diego, Atlanta @Carolina,@ Denver(in December). All of those teams will be in gelling/playoff mode by that time. Then, we close the season with Philly, @Atlanta, @Nawlins, and St. Louis. Philly, NO, ATL will be in the palyoff hunt and out for blood. Hell, STL will be no walk in the park. A college coach to come in to the Bad News Bucs and light up the NFC south with a 8+wins will be movie in the making. I really hope Kirwin is wrong. I saw the other guy post about the two win prediction and I really started to obsess over the schedule. Look, Kirwin is just analyzing the schedule and where the other teams are in ability and it doesn’t look good The football gods have not been kind to us. A good off season will not erase what was done to the team in the last three years. See you at training camp.

  46. Matt Says:

    I dont see more than 4 wins for this team. I am a season ticket holder who actually got to watch some of our games, unlike most of these posters apparently. Our defense is horrific and rookies and Easy E Wright aint going to fix that.

  47. The Dutcher Journal (Pete Dutcher) Says:

    I can’t say I agree with you on the Saints. Other than head coach it is their defense that suffered most. Breez is a seasoned pro who can run the offense during games. The Saints are not a train wreck…they are good for 8-9 wins this year.

  48. Eric Says:

    It is possible we might not suck as bad as last year.

  49. Bk Says:

    7-9 is realistic. I agree with Matt that Our defense is really bad and IMO the offense took a step back last year. We did good things in FA on offense so that may add a win or two with some luck.

  50. bucyea Says:

    Wow…what a number the negative press has done to the majority of sheep round here. From the sounds of gloom and doom of many here, we may be the first team ever to post a negative win record.