Minus Black, Bucs Did Not Overestimate Talent

November 15th, 2011

Joe’s heard some fans and media squawking about how rockstar general manager Mark Dominik miscalculated the ability of the Bucs roster and, per these folks, fans are now seeing on the field what a talent-poor roster delivers.

Joe thinks this is a garbage take. And Joe’s prompted to write about it now because St. Pete Times Bucs beat writer Stephen Holder is saying just the opposite in a long analysis of the state of the Bucs penned today for TampaBay.com.

“Right now, it is hard not to think the front office overestimated the talent level of this team,” Holder writes.

Joe’s not about to believe that Josh Freeman isn’t as talented as he was last year, and that this offensive line isn’t as talented as the one that won games last year without the services of Davin Joseph, Jeff Faine and Jeremy Trueblood. Joe’s also not buying that LeGarrette Blount has lost anything to his game. And please don’t tell Joe that Mike Williams and Arrelious Benn aren’t capable of catching more than four passes combined like they did Sunday, during a game that had the Bucs trailing and taking to the air.

On the defensive side of the ball, the poor tackling exhibition in the secondary surely isn’t related to talent. Aqib Talib, Tanard Jackson and Sean Jones have gotten it done in past years.

Everyone knew going in that the defensive line was young and likely a liability, so surely it can’t qualify as overestimated. That said, Adrian Clayborn has been a significant upgrade. Brian Price is overachieving, and Michael Bennett also is an upgrade over sackless Kyle Moore. Gerald McCoy was giving the Bucs what they expected.

Joe will say that Quincy Black falls in the mythical overestimated talent category. Geno Hayes also hasn’t made the leap in his fourth season to a level of consistency that will keep him around. So add him in. But Mason Foster has been as advertised. Even Hardy Nickerson sees it.

Obviously, Joe could break this down in more detail. But the point is Joe’s not buying that all of a sudden a bunch of players have lost their gifts. These same guys beat the Falcons and Saints this season, and those wins were no fluke.

If Joe were to point fingers of blame, it’s far more reasonable to hang what the Bucs have become on the coaching staff. At the end of the day, a coach’s job, on any level, is to get the most out of his players consistently. The Bucs staff has had far too many failures in that area.

59 Responses to “Minus Black, Bucs Did Not Overestimate Talent”

  1. Matt Says:

    I completely agree Joe. It is NOT the players.

    Let’s look at the defense. The changes are:

    Clayborne over Stylez –> Obvious Upgrade
    Price over Miller –> Obvious Upgrade
    Bennett over Moore –> Obvious Upgrade
    Foster over Ruud –> Likely Upgrade
    Jackson over Grimm –> At worst, even trade (Jackson hasn’t well too well)

    All of the other positions are the same. So unless our players got worse over a year, it has to be coaching.

  2. FLBoyInDallas Says:

    The only thing, besides Clayton & Black, that was overestimated by a country mile was the talent of Raheem Morris and Greg Olson. Fix that and you fix the Bucs. Simple as a screwdriver, as Brian Billick would say (and no I’m not advocating for Billick even though he’d be a definite upgrade; I’m advocating for Jeff Fisher).

  3. Pete Dutcher Says:

    I completely disagree, Joe. It IS the players.

    Let’s look at the defense. They are on the field so much that they don’t get any teaching or true coaching throughout a game. If anything, Raheem needs to spend time with them during games, which he can’t do becuase he’s the head coach.

    So in that respect, I suppose it is coaching…we need a DC.

    But that’s where it ends.

    The plain and simple truth is that the players gave up over the last few games, and it’s the newest players giving up.

    Over the last three years, we’ve seen some good play and we’ve seen some bad play. But one thing we did not see is players giving up. Till now.

    Blame the coach all you want…but it’s the players that did not give 100% on that field over the last couple weeks. With the new CBA, coaches can’t do much more than give players a stiff talking to. They can’t even make them wear pads much anymore.

    As a matter of fact…because of those limitations, I think the development of the players has suffered. Remember as well, there was no training in the off season. We have several starting rookies on the defense who are learning on the fly…and they can’t even do it with pads on half the time.

    They should have had this year, because of the lockout, allow more padded workouts through the season.

    But these players need a guy like Warren Sapp on the team driving them. They need a hitter like John Lynch leading the charge. And they need a leader in the lockerrom like Derick brooks.

    Those three guys turned the team around. That’s the piece we need now. And I suspect we will see it…just maybe not this year.

  4. Matt Says:

    @Pete: The players are responsible for the missed tackles and penalties.

    But time after time, this defense has looked like the confused 2009 Jim Bates defense: they don’t know where to be or the scheme is putting them in the worse places. That is all coaching.

  5. Pete Dutcher Says:

    Isn’t it the missed tackles and the penalties that have cost us the games? For example, a touchdown negated by a penalty? And when it happens a lot, it affects the confidence of hte players who ARE trying.

    I said it before, I’ll say it again: The players on the team are so young they still need to learn how to confront adversity. And that’s something that happens internally for each player…it isn’t coached.

  6. Capt.Tim Says:

    Hmmm. Joe, weren’t yOu the same guy who called our Pitiful secondary a team Strenght?? I admitted I was wrong about Ruud. You gonna own up to that one? Lol

    I agree. No one overestimated team talent.

    That’s my biggest issue! Most football savy fans KNEW Quincy Black and Geno Hayes were horrible. Not just because of their lack of talent. They hide on the field. They take plays off. They are bad.
    And this team( Dom and Raheem) did nothing to upgrade. Even more unfathomable- they rewarded Quincy , for being the worst LBer in the NFL, with a new big contract. That sent a poisionous message to a young team. Hide, exert no effort, don’t care- be rewarded.

    The really smart fans knew our secondary sucked. Two years ago, Talib gave up long TD after Long TD. Last year, Raheem played a 3-3-5 defense to cover for the secondary. This year- back to the 4-3-4, and Talib is human toast again
    Talib gives up to many TDs. Ronde is a legend. Still playing great- but aging.
    Biggers is playing the number 1 WRs , and getting abused. Lewis is made of Glass. Mack try’s, but is just a skidmark. Gaitor has to beef up
    Tanard is quick to the ball, but his tackling skills are really Rusty. He’s missing a ton of tackles. Jones started the year playing decent, but now is always a step slow

    In other words- or LBers and secondary suck. And they knew it. And they did nothing. Nothing at all.

    Thats the bigger issue for me

  7. RCH Says:

    I like Morris but am disapointed how this year is going. When you want to fix a problem you got to start at the top and thats were Morris is. It is flattering to here Fischer’s name and is tempting to try to aquire him this year, but I dont see the owners/management pulling the plug on him yet. The reason being is because of the succuess of last year and everybody calling his name for coach of the year and could be argued that part of the problem was having no off season. I think he gets one more year and if nothing is produced or a playoff aperance then he will be gone. The bad part of that is so will be Fischer and another year wasted hopefully he can turn it around. At miniumn I think they should try to make some other changes in the coaching staff and atlest do something in free agency this off season if we stick with Morris.

  8. Nick Says:

    Joe your right on the money, this argument is put forth by people like Shawn King who want to give Raheem a complete pass on his performance as head coach. Sorry but I am not buying it. Penalties, poor starts, lack of effort??? These are not talent issues but discipline and coaching issues. Raheem has no method for accountability and has become so close to his players that he cannot discipline them effectively. What that leads to is player apathy because they realize there are not repurcussions for bad play and bonehead mistakes so why change, either way they will get a paycheck. Raheem is over his head and this “lets hire a defensive back coach to run our football team cheaply” experiment should be over by the end of this year.

  9. CC Says:

    Hey Pete. Your one of those guys who thinks every team in little league should get a trophy so we don’t hurt someones feelings. Get a fuc***g grip.

  10. CC Says:

    Amen Nick!

  11. Matthew Says:


    I agree with you for the most part that the Buc’s aren’t lacking talent, to at least compete for a playoff spot. The only spot I do believe you overlooked was the Buc’s standing pat at the RB position. I love Blount and wish we’d stay more committed to him throughout the game. However, relying on Earnest Graham a solid blocker/avg at best HB, and the obviously horrible Greg Lumpkin was a severe over estimation in regards to talent at the RB position. What the Bucs needed prior even to the Graham injury was a 3rd down/change of pace/speed back. This I think was a glaring over sight in the talent estimating department but overall as a team I think the talent is there; getting it to consistently perform is the bigger problem.

  12. loweredexpectations Says:

    hands down the best article i have ever seen written on this blog (and there are many!) in the 3 years i’ve been stopping by. cheers joe!

  13. Nate Says:

    We should trade for Deshawn Jackson maybe next years 2nd round pick… This season is probably over and we can start developing some chemistry with a speedy wideout.. then Draft a all pro talented linebacker in the first round..This well help open the field and help with tackling… maybe third round a decent LG..

  14. NoNameBuc Says:

    Joe, I know you like to be positive, which is good, but with all positivity aside If this team has talent then where do you place the blame? Coaching? No OTA’s? Youth? I have to say I think it’s coaching. For instance, Albert came down from New England and had a great game I thought. Do you think that was a result of good coaching from Tampa or from another organization like New England?

  15. Pete Dutcher Says:

    Nice mouth, CC…a good way to show your lack of vocabulary. I think you’ll find you getbetter responses if you keep things clean, and guess what? You can still get a point across.

    Matt Says:
    @Pete: The players are responsible for the missed tackles and penalties.

    But time after time, this defense has looked like the confused 2009 Jim Bates defense: they don’t know where to be or the scheme is putting them in the worse places. That is all coaching.

    Of course they look confused…you have multiple rookies starting who did not have an off season training program and they are still learning to understand each others role and trust one another to react in certain ways.

    I am 100% against firing Morris at this point…but I also don’t think he should be playing the role of DC. Managing two roles didn’t work well for Gruden, and its not working well with Morris. I think it’s a horrible idea for a young team especially.

    Get a Cover-2 minded DC in here, and we’ll see a huge improvement on defense.

    Now, I can see directing anger at Olson…the Bucs Offense should be MUCH better by now. He actually has time to teach…especially with the time the defense is on the field.

    But unless we get someone who is skilled at coaching up a QB at OC, we need to keep Olson one more year.

  16. Eric Says:

    Overestimated the talent of the DC?


  17. Pete Dutcher Says:

    Nate, I think a CB is more important than a LB at this point.

  18. Pete Dutcher Says:

    Tom Clements might be a good replacement for Olson.

  19. Bucworld Says:

    Agreed. I believe that the coaches are not switching things up enough on defense and offense. After a 10-6 record last teams took notice of the Bucs and studied film. They found the Bucs weaknesses and they are exploiting them. It is up to the coaching staff to switch up the game plan. Black was a terrible mistake.

  20. thomas 2.2 Says:

    Excellent points Joe, I agree with you. I will say that a lot of last year’s positives are attributable to who they were playing – basically teams in dire straights playing 2nd and 3rd string and rookie qbs.

    Actually, our defensive line for the last 3 games last year with okam, woods, crowder etc was statistically better than this group.

  21. plbuc Says:

    I am to conclude that all professional football players who play for the Bucs need to be coached on how to play hard for 60 minutes, how to tackle, block, catch and how not to quit. Give me a break! These scammers/millionaires only have to show up for 48 hours (3hrs x 16 games) for the football season and thay can’t even do that. If a couple of players went to see Morris after the game and suggested something needs to be done (as opposed to the HC figuring that out) then it’s a clear indictment that Morris has no authority or respect on this team and the inmates are running the assylum. When the team gets blown out consistently, it’s because they know there are no consequences to their abysmal performance and preparation. And the fans are supposed to be loyal?!

  22. Mauha Deeb Says:

    I think the coaching was over estimated. We have talented players. Last year and few games this year show it.
    But the team is not playing as one now. At any given time it is 11 individuals working alone. They are not working together. That is on the coach.

  23. Nate Says:

    Pete you maybe right.. But our offense is worse then our defense.. Id like to get josh all the tools to develop more… Josh has degressed and He needs to build some chemistry like rodgers and brady have… Its all bout timing and chemistry.. maybe a new O-cord coach too..

  24. Thomas 2.2 Says:

    Nate: you are nuts if you think our offense is worse than our defense.

    Our defense gets gashed repeatedly and is ranked 31st and our offense 16th.

    Our problems on offense are penalties and red zone, not moving the ball. The problems on defense are: we can’t stop anyone running the ball and we get no pressure on the qb (31st in sacks), penalties, red zone, between the twenties, in the US, in Europe against good offenses and not so good offenses (see the Bears).

    We may set a NFL record for most yards given up per play. History tells us that this defense may be the worst EVER. Only the 0-16 2008 Lions are challenging us on the yards per play record.

  25. Thomas 2.2 Says:

    Nate: you are nuts if you think our offense is worse than our defense.

    Our defense gets gashed repeatedly and is ranked 31st and our offense 16th.

    Our problems on offense are penalties and red zone, not moving the ball. The problems on defense are: we can’t stop anyone running the ball and we get no pressure on the qb (31st in sacks), penalties, red zone, between the twenties, in the US, in Europe against good offenses and not so good offenses (see the Bears).

    We may set a NFL record for most yards given up per play. History tells us that this defense may be the worst EVER. Only the 0-16 2008 Lions are challenging us on the yards per play record..

  26. Thomas 2.2 Says:

    Sorry for the dup.

  27. Nick Says:

    Thomas 2.2 I heard that about most yards per play in the history given up. YIKES!!!! Ok so lets get rid of the DC. Wait thats the Head Coach?? Ok wow what an idea that takes care of two problems with one move!! The defense has actually regressed since when Raheem took over. If we are on a historic pace for yardage per play given up that is unbelievable. Raheem is over his head. Please Glazers spend some money in the offseason and eat the $2 miilion owed Rah next year. You did it to get rid of Gruden and now you need to step up to the table and pay good money for the most important position on the team.

  28. Eric Says:

    We got no players that sniff the top ten in any category. Our best receiver is 57th.

    Its an across the board abomination.

    Hate to say it but fans and local media may also be overestimating the talent.

    WHo do we have that other teams would just die to have? Freeman maybe, but after that nobody really.

    Its tough cause all NFL rosters are full of really good players, and if you get focused on one team its easy to lose perspective. Talent is a relative thing.

  29. Big Marlon B Says:

    i am torn on where i want to see the Bucs go with the 1st round pick in the draft. part of me wants to see them go after a LB such as Luke Kuechly or Manti Te’o, who are both pretty sure tacklers and bring leadership as well (Vontaze Burfict would bring some nastiness, but hes not as sure of a tackler and we dont need more penalty prone players)….sure tackling and leadership are 2 things that are DESPERATELY needed on defense. another part of me wants to see a CB come in, cuz its clear Talib isn’t going to be what any of us thought. there are a few really good CB prospects, so we should have our choice by the time we pick (likely 12-20 range).

    i dont know where LaMichael James will be projected, whether it will be 2nd or 3rd round. im sure he is a pretty obvious candidate to add an element of speed to the offense, but i would LOVE to see him here. but i would love to see the first 3 picks end up as (depending on availability of course) LB, CB, and RB.

    i dont know who the upcoming available FAs are, but I think its time to make a move or 2. it doesn’t have to be a huge splash signing (like Nnamdi), but bringing in some guys on a 1 or 2 year deal will not kill us. ok my rant is over lol

  30. thomas 2.2 Says:


    DJ and Penn are coveted players, some would say K2 and Faine also. I think that Blount would draw interest from other clubs, and Preston Parker’s stock is rising. Mike Will is a talent, he is just pressing and he is a head case as well.

    On defense, outside of Ronde, Price, Foster and Clay – possibly Albert – we dont have much else. Our kicking game is solid – lol.

  31. bucsalltheway Says:

    Raheems approach last season when he took on dc position he told the team its not about how many yards you give up stats are for losers. But he preached putting points on the board and getting good field positions and clock management. When they believed in themselves it didn’t matter what raheem said or done because we was magically winning games. But since that offense magic left the defense gives up yards but we just can’t put up points this year. So yeah we’re always gonna be behind. And freeman doesnt read coverages this year and he barely scrambles like he’s smaller then the players this year.

  32. IMHO... Says:

    this f*ck up is on everyone starting with Freeman, Raheem, Winslow, Olsen, Black, Hayes, Jones, lack of speed, on down. If im ur avg Bucs fan and can see that he is staring down all his reads then imagine what paid personel can see. Winslow is done for. He gets zero separation, drops many passes, can’t block and when he finally catches it, is called 4 PI or personal fouls. Olsen, Black, Hayes all need 2 find new professions. Olsen has a degree, Black can be a bodybuilder and Hayes can work 4 Derrick Brooks Charities.

  33. Thomas 2.2 Says:

    Rah was correct about “stats being for losers.” Our stats are all bad and we are losers.

    Btw: Rodgers leads qbs in statistics and that the Packers are the highest scoring team in the NFL, and shockingly per Rah Rah’s logic – they are the best team in the NFL at 9-0. Mike McCarthy isn’t afraid of stats. Further, the top scoring defense is San Fran, again Rah would never expect this, they are 8-1.

    When your stats are excellent(at at least 1 side of the ball) history says you will be good. Rah didn’t like stats last year bc they all said we stunk and he knew it – our record was misleading due to our opponents qb issues.

  34. gotbbucs Says:

    i think for the most part the talent is there. we obviously need another rb, two new lb’s, and secondary depth across the board, but none of that matters if the guys in charge dont know how to put that talent in the right place at the right time.

  35. BigMacAttack Says:

    It really could be worse. They have stepped back and their biggest problem is inconsistency, but they can play. I think they will be back sooner than later. I think Olson has lost his confidence but Raheem will get things righted. It’s tough and I feel bad for the team and coaches because I believe they are trying their hardest for the most part. It will get better in time, and I have my opinions like having Demar Dotson in more frequently as a run blocking TE. I wish they would not abandon Blount running the ball even when they are behind. Raheem knows a helluva lot more about football than I do, and I know if we see things, he sees them too. I still believe in our coach and his ability to pull these guys to the top. He does have an awful lot on his plate for being such a young head coach, but he will grow and improve and so will the vast majority of his players. And as I said before, it could be much worse.

    C’mon Raheem, I know you can do it! Go Bucs!!!

  36. bobby Says:

    Guys, let’s get a grip. Turns out the schedule this year is way tougher than we thought it would be. We’ve lost 5 games and 3 of those five games are to division leaders, the other two are to teams tied for second place in the same division as Green Bay. We’ve also beaten a division leading team in New Orleans and we beat Atlanta this year. I’m not happy with the way we played against Texas but I’m sure the Bucs aren’t either. Give them time to grow up. If they don’t then don’t expect any miracles with a coaching change because that will just mean a new coach who will want new players and a new system and we’ll be posting the same old crap for years. I’d rather give Morris time to get this team turned around and put all the pieces in place over the next couple of drafts. Believe me, Morris knows that if this team doesn’t start to at least exhibit the potential that the front office thinks they should….his days are numbered.

  37. Capt.Tim Says:

    Listen, as usual, most of you are overreacting. If you had read the Capt’s post back in March, there wouldnt be too many surprises.

    It’s not only normal, it’s the norm for really young players to suffer the ” sophomore slump. We have a really young TEAM. The NFL got a book on all of them last year. With no offseason- they were bound to struggle – as I said they would. A good offseason with their position coaches, they’ll adapt and learn new wrinkles. That part is no surprise. If anyone expected this team to go to the playoffs- well, I admire your optimism, but it was unrealistic.

    I’ve supported Raheem, because his team always played hard. Last Sunday- they didn’t. That’s unacceptable. The penalties are out of control. Some players seem to get a pass for have ass effort. It’s poisoned the team
    Those things were a surprise. I think the Glazers replace him this off season. They would have given him a bye for wins/ loses. But lack of discipline is not acceptable

  38. MTD Says:

    This is the NFL. You don’t go 10-6, draft well, beat to powerhouses in your division and then claim the talent isn’t there. You’re on the money Joe. This falls about 80 percent on the coaching and 20 percent on Dominink’s “plan.”

    You really can’t blame players because you can’t fire the whole team, at least not with the same regime.

    Raheem will take the fall if he can’t get them competitive. I think this town’s pretty reasonable and enough people would have been satisfied this year to see a real “yungry” up and coming team that went 8-8. But we’re nowhere near competitive. That’s on the coach.

  39. Blubber Price Says:

    “Eric Says:
    November 15th, 2011 at 6:20 pm
    We got no players that sniff the top ten in any category. Our best receiver is 57th.

    Its an across the board abomination.

    Hate to say it but fans and local media may also be overestimating the talent.

    WHo do we have that other teams would just die to have? Freeman maybe, but after that nobody really.”

    Exactly right .

    I’m assuming Joe is going to take the position AGAIN this offseason , that since we are already so “talented” , we don’t need to fill any holes via free agency. Then he can sit here AGAIN in 2012 and wonder why still suck , and try and blame it all on Quincy Black . LOL

  40. Brad Says:

    I think the biggest problem is Dominic’s plan. We have players that are not ready to be starters. Just about every guy especially on defense was just given the job without any true competition. I would have rather kept the same D line as last year minus a few players and have the new guys learn and play sparingly. Thomas is right in the fact we played easier teams last year and this year just about every team is a top caliber team. This was a huge oversite by Dominic. He should have known our schedule was tough and that starting a bunch of rookies with zero veteran leadership was huge mistake. I’m sure these guys are clueless when their getting their heads bashed in every week. I do blame Olson for the terrible offense. The offense should be carrying this team while the D is learning on the fly. Raheem deserves blame for players quitting and the penalties but Dominic put them in this position. I believe he should be fired first, then Olson, hire a good DC and give Raheem 1 more year and that’s it. If not better next year send him packing as well.

  41. Mauha Deeb Says:

    If Jim Harbaugh can come into san fran with relatively the same talent as the year before and turn them into a competitive team, I don’t see why the Bucs could not do the same with a coaching change.

  42. Brad Says:

    I think we have talented players on both sides of the ball I just think most aren’t ready to be a starters especially when you have an entire D line that are either rookies or 2nd year guys. Then having a key position that Foster clearly is not ready to play, it’s really not too shocking our D is as bad as it looks. The blame goes to Dominic first…

  43. Brad Says:

    Mauha.. The 49s our totally different than we are. They had great players that have tons more experience than the Bucs do. It makes perfect sense that a coach with a talented team can make a difference… See Gruden. Our team couldn’t be made into a winner no matter who was coaching tha team. We have a team at several key positions that aren’t ready to play.. Over time I think several of our players will be studs but when you don’t have experience at several positions this is what you get. A different coach might cut down on penalties and the will to play harder but the results would be similiar other the score might be closer. I do believe if we had the right OC then our offense would not be as bad.

  44. Eric Says:

    Take a look at Haynesworth. It was only one game, but he filled his roll well.

    See how that works? Fill a need with FA, then you can modify your draft needs. If Albert were to work out (its a big if I know), you dont have to stretch to draft another DT (in case Mccoy cant come back). Then your on a roll and building the team. Its still “though the draft”, but with some fools gold so you dont have a whole football team worth of rookies trying to learn all at one time – from an inexperienced coach.

    Then offensively sprinkle in a Sproles or Boldin tor Holmes or even Marshall type to help Freeman and you begin to become formidable. (Unfortunatley we sat on our asses while other teams got better).

    Top it off with great experienced coaching and you got a contender.

    I agree with the premise we got some talent, but personell needs upgrading in the vet department and vastly improved coaching on both sides of the ball. Most importantly, it involves a real committment from ownership.

    Were all waiting Glazer boys.

  45. Dean Says:

    I think the biggest problem is Dominic’s plan. We have players that are not ready to be starters.

  46. Apple Roof Cleaning Says:

    Tampa won last year, even with injuries and backups.
    But we had differrent O and D Line Coaches.

  47. Jonny Says:

    ^^^ and the schedule was very weak compared to now.

  48. Nate Says:

    I think if the offense wasnt so bad.. the defense wouldnt have to play the whole game.. There gonna get tired… Our line backer crew just isnt that good.. and we need speed on WR and running back.. Basically we need some speed We should have gotten darren spoles and a DB this offseason in free agency.. This season is over though imo.. Unless the bucs win everygame from now till the end of the season.. with the packers coming in i doubt it..

  49. digitalone Says:

    “lets hire a defensive back coach to run our football team cheaply” experiment should be over by the end of this year….well said bro I’m stealing it.

  50. McBuc Says:

    LOL, I know a couple ex NFL players. You guys act like this is high school or college. The players are grown men that make more than the coaches and have all the star power. The consequences argument is BS. The fundamentals and how they practice is legitimate. This is on the coaches, but due to scheme and preperation.

    Thomas, nice job on the positive post about the players others may want.

    To the guy that suggested Albert played good due to Bill B in NE…He had 1 more tackle in NE this year than he did in one game with the Bucs. Albert plays better with one gap.

  51. Joe Says:

    Blubber Price:

    Joe is very much a Mark Dominik guy. That doesn’t mean he is Jesus.

    There were two moves that made Joe scratch his head that Dominik made.

    1) His hard sell on Kregg Lumpkin; that the Bucs would not miss Cadillac because of The Great Lumpkin. Yet if Lumpkin was so great, Ted Thompson would not let him walk. It wasn’t as if the Packers were loaded at running back. Joe sniffed that out from Day 1.

    2) Dropping a Brinks truckload at the feet of Quincy Black. Thus far Black has so earned his new contract he’s been benched in the middle of a game twice through nine games.

    At least when Dominik threw money at Michael Clayton Dominik could reach and say, “Well, he did have one really good year as a rookie and can block.”

    What exactly can Quincy Black do… or has done?

  52. Hawaiian Buc Says:

    As in most arguments, I think there’s a little truth on both sides. First off, I know I overestimated our talent. At the beginning of this year, I would have put Freeman, Williams, Blount, Winslow, Talib, and Penn in the top 10 of their positions. However, at this point Penn is the only one I would still leave there. Of course time will tell if the young guys make it eventually (I still think they will), but I don’t think there is any debate that they aren’t now. I think we basically have average to slightly below average talent at virtually EVERY position on this team. Again, that should and probably will change with time, but it is what it is right now. That’s not a recipe to beat good teams, but at the same time it’s not a recipe for the disaster of a product we have put on the field the last few weeks (minus the NO game). That falls on coaching. As much as I hate to admit it, it is true. We are good enough talent wise to at least be competitive.

  53. Blubber Price Says:

    Joe , I think Quincy Black sucks as well.

    Where we differ is I think the entire defense sucks except for Clayborn , Bennett , and ROnde( whose gone next year anyway ). You seem to think we are brimming with awesome talent everywhere else .

    I don’t see it.

  54. Dave Says:

    I agree although I am not ready to simply blame the coaches. The players themselves have to be accountable and step up and penalty after drive killing penalty has shown they are not.

    Like I have said, the building blocks are there: McCoy, Price, Clayborn, Foster….
    On offense: Freeman, Blount, Williams, Benn, Penn, Joseph….

    They are mising a few pieces on both sides: LB, LB, DB, WR & RB w/SPEED

  55. FunkyMunkey Says:

    This is pretty self explainatory. Teams have had a whole year to watch our tapes and adjust to what they see. It happens all the time. The guys Williams, Blount, Freeman…had break out years because people underestimated them. Thats not happening this season. They are getting respect by teams spending so much time adjusting to our schemes and plays. This year is over. Time to focus on the draft and next offseason. Damn it sucks saying that!!!!

  56. kappa08 Says:

    I will repeat…we need MEN on this team…

  57. kappa08 Says:

    Hmmmmm let’s count the mistakes Dominick has made.
    Offensive and defensive coordinator’s his first year
    Drafting glass dolls
    Aqib is still on the team
    TJ got an extension?…for what?
    and Black to me is a the straw…sorry Dominick…but you absolutely blow….

  58. Dave Says:

    It amazes me how quickly NFL fans want to throw GMs and Coaches under the bus. 1 bad month! 1 BAD MONTH! and the wolves are circling screaming “told ou so” on every player and coach they can point a finger at.

    Oh well…. it is the mentality of the “what have you done for me in the last minute” generation of this nation.

    Personally, I think McCoy, Price, Foster, TJax, Bennett, and Clayborn have shown enough to be building blocks.
    Same for Freeman, Blount, Williams, Penn, Joseph

    They obvioulsy need LBs and DBs and speed at WR and RB.

    But it is a rebuilding process and this is year 2.

  59. Hawaiian Buc Says:


    I’m with you buddy. Unfortunately for us, these wolves are multiplying and they are going to eat you alive for actually believing in the team and showing a little patience. I’m just glad they don’t run the team, because if they did, we would be blowing everything up once a year. We would probably average 2.5 coaches per year, and we would have traded away all of our draft picks to bring in players that perform well for them on Madden.