Decision-Making, Winslow, Talent Ailing Freeman

October 24th, 2011

What’s wrong with Josh Freeman?

Former Bucs signal caller Shaun King weighed in with some answers this afternoon on WQYK-AM 1010. And there were multiple reasons offered.

In no particular order, reason No. 1 is Kellen Winslow.

“That’s an issue. The dynamic of the relationship between Josh Freeman and Kellen Winslow. … How many picks are forces to Winslow?

“I’m telling you as a former quarterback, when that guy’s in your ear, saying ‘Give me the football,’ that plays a part,” King said.

Reason No. 2: the Bucs don’t have the talent around Freeman.

“They threw 51 passes and no wide receiver with 100 yards. Nobody with 80 yards,’ King said. ” We averaged 5 yards an attempt. That’s something an option team does throwing to its fullback.

“They don’t’ have the dynamic playmakers. … Yesterday was the perfect example of what happens when they try to be a throw-first team.”

And King’s reason No. 3 is perhaps the most troubling.

“The decision-making is really starting to worry me. I don’t see a guy in his drop that’s really diagnosing the coverage,” King said. “For whatever reason it’s not happening. I don’t see a whole lot of reading coverages. … I don’t see a lot of seeing holes in the zone. I see a guy who’s deciding in the huddle, ‘I’m throwing the ball here.'”

Maybe it’s easy to say King doesn’t know what he’s talking about when it comes to his takes on Gerald McCoy, but surely not about Freeman. And King has said on air multiple times that he secures and watches coaches film for Bucs games.

Regardless, Joe buys in to what King is saying except the talent aspect. No, the Bucs aren’t loaded with Pro Bowl explosive players, but there was more than enough talent on the field for Freeman yesterday to beat the Bears and stay in first place en route to a playoff berth.

60 Responses to “Decision-Making, Winslow, Talent Ailing Freeman”

  1. Meh Says:

    I see a guy who’s deciding in the huddle, ‘I’m throwing the ball here.’”

    “and I’m going to telegraph that with my eyes every time”.

  2. Eric Says:

    Chicago rushed for 177 yards at a 5.4 average.

    Apply that stat to just about any NFl team and it equals loss.

    Freeman is a little shaky, but he is put in some very untenable positions out of his control IMO. Can’t count on the kid having a miracle finish every week.

    Everyone and his uncle knows controlling Forte is the key against the Bears, yet the dude sliced right through. Really lousy defense.

  3. Travis Says:

    King is 100% right on every single one of these assessments.

    No Joe there isn’t the “Talent” out there.

    We have 1 good receiver (Mike W), then we have a drop-off to a bunch of guys that are average (Benn, Briscoe, Parker). After that we have a crybaby TE who runs the worst routes ive ever seen in my life.

    Our “Average” category receivers may one day become “good” receivers, but they aren’t yet, not to mention collectively our receivers have some of the worst hands in the league, were top 5 in the league for most dropped passes.

  4. bucfanjeff Says:

    I will preface this comment that I absolutely loved the Freeman pick at the time and still do now. But, I absolutely agree with #3. It’s like his mind is made up pre-snap at times. It’s not all on Freeman though..and like a previous article, he needs to tuck it and run more. I would also call more designed roll-outs, move the pocket. Freeman can’t do it alone though and Winslow needs to understand it’s not all about him. His body language is horrible. I’m sure the FO is taking notice.

  5. Leighroy Says:

    The talent is there, sure Joe I agree with you on that. But this “talent” is not ready to play at a high level consistently. You could probably say that about most areas of our team.

    Till then, we will amaze with both good and horrible performances either way, on any given Sunday. Yesterday, was just an example of how frustrating it can get.

  6. Leroy Buttermilk Says:

    Talib robbed Barber out of another Sack biggers keeps getting abused

  7. Capt.Tim Says:

    No, it’s easy to say Shaun King doesn’t know what he’s talking about when it comes to Josh Freeman, Also. Poor Shaun, our line back then left a lot to be desired. He had his poor lil head banged off the ground a few to many times. And he was exactly anaylst material before the concussions!

    We discussed this, before the season started. We knew that our young stars would probably struggle this year, because they got locked out, when they needed to be locked In one Buc Place. That first off season is critical. Defenses adapt to what young players show them. The young players need to be prepared for this, and have options. WR didn’t get a chance to review that with our young stars, and it shows.

    Blame Godell’s stupid lockout. He deserves. He’s the worst sports commissioner in modern history

  8. Eric Says:

    The more troubling question is why do we have the 28th ranked defense in the league after infusing it with many high draft choices?

    Freeman is still ranked 10th in passing. He is the least of our problems.

  9. KD Says:

    I agree with everything he said. I’m sick of Kellen Winslow. Watch him when on run plays and plays where he’s not directly involved. He stops playing. Whines to the quarterback about not getting the ball, not playing when he isn’t about to get the ball, he’s not a football player. Draft another tight end next year and let’s roll with a new guy and Stocker. I’m guessing Winslow only has so much time left with those bad knees anyway.

  10. admin Says:

    Joe here,

    @Eric – Great question. But the defense did channel the glory years standing up to the Bears on the final six Bears possessions, including Talib forcing them into two goal-to-go stands. There’s a ton of talent there, but something prevents them from playing from the opening whislte.

  11. Brandon Says:

    Freeman refuses to move his feet, he is content to throw the ball away instead of trying to make a play by moving his feet in the pocket or out of it. Freeman needs to start playing with a much greater sense of urgency. That’s the difference between the first 3 quarters and the 4th, is urgency. He shouldn’t be standing like a statue in the pocket for the first 3 quarters, he needs to be trying to make a play with his legs if he has to or buying time to make the play with his arm and then throwing it away as a last option.

    He acts like we have an unlimited number of possessions… we don’t, and we need points on the board and just as importantly, we need to keep our D off the field. The D has improved greatly but the offense needs to help them out a little bit and keep them off the field.

  12. BuccFanInHawkeyeCountry Says:

    8 carries for 15 yards from a back. That aint talent. Im just sayin. Freeman is forcin it too much tho. When is the Blount gonna be burnin again? After the bye vs New Orleans?

  13. rickster Says:

    Yeah winslow is crying for the ball on everyplay. I think free forces the ball to him to keep him happy, and he’s trying to keep there relationship in tact. There’s no pleaseing k2. Even when other players score. He dropped a couple balls yesterday!! As far as the talent around Freeman, think he’s stacked. Parker, briscoe, stocker, blount. He doesn’t use benn for whatever reason bit a threat non the less. Mike, I don’t know what’s wrong with him. He’s looking like Clayton everyday. Olsen isn’t helping free with his play calling either…

  14. mikeck Says:

    Eric…my opinion: our Weak and Sam backs have no business starting in the NFL, our best CB (Talib) would be the number 3 CB on several other teams and we have issues with our safeties (as in our SS is average at best and we keep losing our FS’s to injuries.).

    Add it up, you have a good front four and a good MLB (who is a rookie)….that equals 28 in defense.

  15. Mauha Deeb Says:

    Freeman played great last year. His accuracy was better and his vision was way way better. I imagine this is just one of those hiccups in a players early career.

    Josh is just a baby. He is only 23! I have no worries right now.

    Plus, when your QB is pressured 22 of 51 drop backs it gets very tough to stay in the pocket and throw. Our line did not block well. We better get that fixed before we turn Josh Freeman into Josh Garcia.

  16. Eric Says:


    Good assessment.

    One would think with a defensive minded head coach we would be a bit more formidable in his third year in charge.

    Did we shut Chicago down those last series or were they in playing it safe mode? Didn’t they drive a long way to get that last field goal?

  17. tj Says:

    Mike Williams benn and parker are play makers . It was the play calling only deep pass thrown was by spurlock not freeman to many slants and why no rec by benn . Bad play calling

  18. flmike Says:

    Our skill position players are still 2nd year players who had no offseason with coaches or trainers. Look at the teams that are playing well, GB veterans, NO veterans, NE same thing, these are the elite teams. Everyone and I mean Everyone else are having consistency issues, especially with their rookies and with players with less than 3 years in the league. And don’t point to Detroit, they are a pretty veteran team, but as we are seeing teams are game planning them now and exposing the weaknesses. We have the bye and a visit to our Second Home, the Super Dome where we haven’t lost in 2 years. I suspect like Capt Tim that we will see much different and much more competitive teams come the second half of the season.

  19. patrickbucs Says:

    Hello Joe,

    With all of the cap room this team had/has, it was mentioned many times in the off-season by Dom to be patient we have all of these young guys to sign to possible extensions including Freeman. I can’t think of any planned guys he was referring to including Freeman that are up for or deserve an extension at this point. The only guy I can think of possibly is Bennett to a small extension or a few other smaller free agent type guys.

    Has Dom addressed this at all lately? If so I haven’t seen any news on it. Won’t a lot of this year’s “massive cap room” basically disappear next year? Please let me know if you have an update.

  20. Bobby Says:

    The key word in all of these posts is ‘consistancy’. We don’t have it but as the youngest team in the NFL who the heck thought we would?? Freeman is 23. Has he taken a step back…maybe. Sometimes when you are trying to get to the next level it seems like you are stepping back. You are trying to find out what you can do and what you can’t do. He’s a smart kid with a rocket arm…he’ll figure it out. We have the talent but it’s young talent. As bad as we played we were in a position to win that game at the end and we are still 4-3 and one game out of first place in our division. Last year at this time we were 5-2 and hadn’t beaten a team with a winning record. This year we’ve beaten Atlanta and New Orleans, both division opponents.
    This team is gonna have it’s ups and downs for the rest of the season…get used to it. Next year is the year I think we win our division. This defense has to mature and we need a few more pieces to the puzzle. We’ll get there. Patience.

  21. 941-Bucs Says:

    I said it before. I’ll say it again. Williams is a Slant, Corner, Dig route kind of receiver. Get him in open space to make plays after the catch.

    Benn is a deeper threat ( Fly, go routes, and posts), he just plays the deep ball well.

    Parker is a possession guy. He wont make eye popping plays. But normally wont drop passes and doesn’t mind going through the middle.

    Briscoe, He has the best hands on the team. He also probably has the most talent for a receiver on our team also. His major downside is (like Allen Iverson) he doesn’t like to go hard during practice.

    I can see it and i am just a normal fan. I really wish the coaches can see this also, Maybe they can work out better game plans. It seems to me like they are just playing the NAME and not the Talent.

    If it were me. I would have Benn @ X, Briscoe @ Y, with Williams being the Slot or Z. Parker and Stroughter can be back ups.

    Speakin of, What is going on with Stroughter? is he almost healthy?

  22. 941-Bucs Says:

    Oh and K2 is garbage. Literally a Antonia Bryant in a TE body. Cries for the ball, Doesn’t make plays unless HE is part of the play. And is more of a liability then a threat these days.

  23. Freeman4President Says:

    There were open recievers, Freeman made very bad throws…forced throws…the problems yesterday, other the the first half run D were at QB. I love free, I am a free guy, but the safties were playing 20+ yards off the ball at the snap and the windows between the corners and safties were there ( see the brisco touch down) but they weren’t identified and capitolized on.

    PS…cut Lumpkin NOW…he has ZERO value in any aspect of the game.

  24. Freeman4President Says:

    WOW…my spelling is awful…thank god I can spell check on work email!

  25. Adam L Says:

    I asked Mark Dominik personally at the season ticket holder’s tour of One Buc Place, why, if you love Josh Freeman so much, wouldn’t you get him a playmaker to make his job easier (as in a FA like Anquan Boldin, Brandon Marshall, etc.)? He told me that his plan was to mirror the Cowboys and draft a QB, a WR, and a RB that would all grow together… and I have NO problem with that approach; however, there is one caveat to that approach: you have to DRAFT THREE HALL OF FAMERS in TWO YEARS for that to happen. If you’re a LOUSY DRAFTER, the plan falls apart. At least a free agent is a proven commodity.

  26. passthebuc Says:

    for some reason, Williams has been using his body not his hands to catch. does he have a finger or thumb problem?

  27. 941-Bucs Says:

    We need to bench K2 and Aqib Talib until they can learn when to shut their mouths.

    I can’t figure which one i am more disappointed in. Talib, i mean he really just runs his mouth at the opposing players (which 90% of the league does). Sometimes it gets in the way of the game and normally only has minor consequences. This weekend just happens to not be one of those instances. This was a BIG BIG mistake on what would have been a miracle play by Barber. Cost them the Motivation Swing and probably the game.

    But (if) Kellen Winslow is buzzing in Freeman’s ear, interfering with his decision making. Then this is a HUGE HUGE problem. Freeman is only in his 3rd year (i count 2 1/2 because of the lock out). He needs to keep his mind on his progressions and reads, NOT looking for just him. This is a BIG NO BUENO for a QB who is still learning the game. You are directly hurting his development with that nonsense.

    I mean i get it. You are passionate about football, and maybe more passionate about having great stats so hopefully one day you can join your father in the HoF. But this Offense (and the NFL) is no longer a one star in town show. The ball needs to be spread around to keep defenders on their heels. I can tell tho, that’s just not how K2 wants it. You can read it all over his body language on the field.

    He is becoming a cancer. On a normal team filled with veteran leadership, this wouldn’t be a huge issue. As others can guide that distraction else where. But this is a very young and growing team. And your QB’s only experience in the NFL should NOT be controlled by a ball hungry, selfish, Randy Moss-esk TE. IMO

    /Rant off.

  28. 941-Bucs Says:

    I agree, Lumpkin looked pretty good in his first few chances earlier in the season. As a work horse tho, I can’t say the same. He routinely got stuffed.

    Hurray for the Chad Spann signing now. 🙂 I don’t know much about the kid, but his college film looked pretty good (and i’m not just talking about his highlight reel). If we are lucky in the next draft we will pick up that Burner from Oregon a.k.a. LGB’s faster lil brother. That would give us a new version of Earth, Wind and Fire.

  29. Eric Says:

    Whats with all the K-2 complaints?

    I recall in the Super Bowl video from 2002 that Jerry Rice was chewing out anybody that would listen, including Rich Gannon.

    Don’t most of the good ones have that attitude?

    One of the better TE’s in the league and the best non-draft decision by the Rock Star.

  30. 941-Bucs Says:

    @passthebuc I think it has more to do with Freeman not being nearly as accurate as last year. Freeman is just trying to get the ball at the receivers versus trying to put it on a spot so the receiver can make a play on the ball. He’s lost confidence in his throwing and it shows on small things like that.

  31. 941-Bucs Says:

    Well if you recall and go back to his days with the browns. He had a DIVA problem already. Fans had a problem with him there too. Don’t get me wrong. He has outstanding talent and is an Elite TE but only WHEN he wants to do it. He Muff’s passes, rounds off routes, doesn’t fully extend for passes where he might end up getting hit while catching, doesn’t really block on run plays OR block down field for short pass plays. Now as of late he is buzzing in Freeman’s ear, which is directly messing with his development. And considering it’s ALL ABOUT 5. This is a big no no.

  32. 941-Bucs Says:

    Like i said in my post before. If this was a veteran team, this wouldn’t be a issue. But you have to put into perspective this is a VERY young team and developing. If one of the Veteran’s on the team is being a diva. What do you think the younger ones who are looking up to him are going to think? Remember he has to be a role model to these guys too. Needs to stay professional to set a good example.

  33. mikeck Says:

    Dont get too wrapped around the axle about Lumpkin. I mean, he IS (was?)the 3rd string RB…what did you expect? Particularly without a healthy fullback. Shoulda kept caddy…..

  34. thomas 2.2 Says:

    Here is the bottom line:

    A) Free has obviously made some poor throws. However, frequent stupid penalties put him in very negative situations, as does having to constantly play from behind. The game-planning on both sides of the ball is atrocious.

    B) There is talent on this offense, Free, DJ, Penn, Will, K2, Blount but not enough to constantly play from behind.

    C) The defense has huge holes, mostly with run defense. Teams come out and run the ball at us, force us to walk up a safety and then they exploit the opening downfield in the passing game.

    D) A marginal team like this needs to play clean to win, few penalties and turnovers – Rah’s teams arent coached well enough to play like that.

    Rah is a bad match for this group, his loose practices and poor game-planning with an emphasis toward cliches and motivational speeches will not create discipline. Ruling with a firm hand will, Rah is incapable of exacting string penalties against his buddies.

  35. Nick Says:

    Thomas, how many practices have you attended and how many game plan meetings have you sat in? And why didn’t you speak u during the game plan meeting? I mean, you’re just as much to blame.

  36. Dano Says:

    There so many things that are wrong. 1)Lack of urgency to start
    2)Vanilla play calling (where are the deep throws to Benn?? 3)Freeman forcing throws to MW & K2
    4) Way too many penalties 5) Need better play from LB’s (Foster
    is a young stud) 6) Need RB ugrade IMMEDIATELY
    The only guy playing at a PRO BOWL level has been the punter KOENEN
    which is sad to say!

  37. Nick2 Says:

    Joe, are we all tiptoeing around the obvious question here. If they Bucs are ill prepared week after week (starting slow) do we have a serious coaching preparation problem? I mean the Head Coach is responsible for his players being prepared, gameplanned and ready week in and week out. Everything done on the fly during games can be a product of player feedback in the moment of games. Mabye its no coincidence that Raheem and Dom’s contracts are not tied together.

  38. thomas 2.2 Says:

    A few practices, no game plan meetings.

    I am giving rah the benefit of the doubt that they even understand game-planning. The only evidence that we have is that they appear unprepared. If he is extensively game-planning and they start like this, something us failing / either the plan is horrible or the communication of it is lacking, or both. Probably both.

    All of you who were bragging pre-season about the level of talent assembled on this team through the last few drafts have a problem. Either you were correct then and the coaching is responsible for this failure to get better, or you were wrong then. One of your positions is off base.

    Sure there have been injuries but not the most significant ones, like Free, Penn, DJ, Williams, Ronde, Clay etc. All teams have injuries, it is life in the NFL. The youth is no excuse bc you chose this direction, plus they have vets in key places, qb, oline, te, corners, safety, lbs etc.

    This team is a 8-8 team, give or take 1 with rah.

  39. thomas 2.2 Says:

    Listening to JP:

    Royals just said “i love raheem but he is more one of the boys” than the head coach and “you have to have the line drawn” between head coach and buddy.

  40. Oahubuc Says:

    Sad to see Winslow lapsing back to diva mode. Someone should put a highlight video together of his limp-wristed blocks. My Winslow jersey is in storage now.

  41. BigMacAttack Says:

    I’m not ready to throw them all under the bus yet. Winslow is frustrated but as said above, Freeman needs to get moving again and stop telegraphing his passes. He also needs to get a little more air under his throws at times. He often has a very flat trajectory and I think the Bears studied this which helped Urlacher in jumping up and picking him off. Adam Hayward played pretty well as the Mike, and Quincy was hit and miss, like his brother Geno. We saw very little Bowers yesterday, which was odd and Roy Miller has not been impressive. The one person that really sucked, and has sucked since he came to Tampa, is Lumpkin. We really miss Cadi now and to think they kept Lumpkin to let Cadi go is crazy. They need to see what Madu can do or sign anybody else, doesn’t matter who, Lumpkin sucks, and Lorig is injury prone.

    Did anyone out there actually see Aqib stick his fingers in the helmet, facemask? I couldn’t see it on any replays and the ref making the call was the same guy from the Raven’s game. See Nick Houllis article about it. Strange if you ask me. Still can’t win by throwing 4 picks and that is what cost them the game, 4 picks was the difference, which falls on Josh & Olie.

  42. BigMacAttack Says:

    it sure is strange how much comfort you take in a Bucs’ loss. Some fan, sure they need to fix the problems but no one hates the Bucs as much as you do. Pretty obvious.

  43. NickinMelb Says:

    Was it me or did anyone notice that Freeman was not stepping into his throws at any point even when he had time to throw? It seems like once he got pressure he continued to throw falling backwards as if he anticipated getting hit. Anyway you have to step into a pass not back off of it even if you have a rocket arm as he does. Oh and 941 I could not agree more, Winslow has become a cancer. Freeman has his best game of the year last week and Winslow is whining as if we were losing. What happen to the team concept where as long as your winning everyone is happy. Raheem either is not watching Winslows body language and antics or he is afraid of taking action but with a young guy like Freeman I would sit Winslow on the bench until he understands what winning is all about.

  44. thomas 2.2 Says:


    Wanting the team to bring in a better coach, free agents etc in not hating them. Being thrilled about repeatedly missing the playoffs and barely attaining mediocrity bc you want to be right about the coach is a loser mentality.

    Would you rather go 8-8 with Rah or be an annual playoff participant with a Cowher or some other head coach with a track record of success?

    Rah had one forgetful season as a big 12 coordinator. After he and the head coach left, scandals followed including Rah being sued by the school for breach of contract.

  45. stevek Says:

    He just needs a Defensive Coordinator…. How bout a guy that is going to get TAlib’s STUPIDIDTY in line? He should be for the first half next week for getting that penalty. No discipline.


    It aint a bout Rah, it aint about Dom, it aint about the players….. It is about the Glazers not spending up to there capability.

    Bucs can and will continue to get better, despite ownership not spendin a buck.

    As far as Shaun King, he is absolutely right, we do not have that “guy” that can just guy out there and make plays for the team on his own. Mike Williams is a #2 WR.

  46. stevek Says:

    @ Thomas2.2 again,

    Rah “breached his contrat” bc he went from coaching a D in the Big 12, to take the oppurtunity to coach the Bucs.

    You’d have to be an absolute moron to not take that oppurtunity, and if you disagree, I’d like to invite you to “Dinner for Schmucks”.

    You sir, have a good day.

  47. Apple Roof Cleaning Says:

    I listened to the Shaun King Show driving to Tampa today.
    The problem is Tampa does not have a running game, and we were forced to pass. We all saw the result. WHY Freeman did not tuck the ball and run is beyond me ?

  48. NickinMelb Says:

    This team was built on frugality. Lets look at it Raheem… cost pennies compared to a Cowher, Dominick once again cost pennies compared to an established GM, then we have the draft but no free agency… well once again the cheapest route possible. The only thing I have seen the Glazers spend money on of late is giving the Bucs a few extra days in London and all of the millions they pour down Manchester United. Does anyone wonder why we have no running game??? Because when Darren Sproles was out there to be gobbled up or even a Marion Barber (who torched us yesterday) we sat on our hands because we don’t like free agency??? Now we have serious issues and looking at Chad Span as a solution?? Please you get what you pay for and unfortunately we are going to get very little. Blount was a miracle to get there won’t be another one out there.

  49. Joe Says:


    Several points:

    Cowher: Though Joe wouldn’t have lost sleep had the Bucs hired Cowher (notice, no one else hired him either?), remember that Cowher is among the highest branches of the Marty Chokenheimer tree? How many AFC title games did that guy lose, four? Half of Pittsburgh couldn’t wait to run him out of town. So let’s not deify Cowher as some coaching panacea.

    Sproles: This is nearly as illogical as J.P. Peterson (still) screaming about how the Bucs didn’t draft Adrian Peterson. Sproles wanted to go to the Saints because of family concerns. Sproles also knew he would have gotten a lot of playing time in New Orleans because Reggie Bush was gone. The same could not have been said for the Bucs with Blount, Graham and, at the time, Cadillac Williams still here.

    GM: What “established” GM was available exactly when the Bucs jettisoned Bruce Allen (who should have been fired anyway)? Ron Wolf? He’s retired and has no desire to get back in the NFL. Eddie Acorsi? Same thing, retired. “Established” GMs aren’t exactly in an unemployment line looking for work. They either stay with their clubs for years or retire.

    When the Packers hired Ted Thompon he was “cheap.” When the Steelers hired Kevin Colbert he was “cheap.”

    Kregg Lumpkin: Joe stated from day one the pitch Dominik was selling everyone on Kregg Lumpkin was a smoke screen. The Packers had major depth problems at running back last year and Thompson cut Lumpkin. If a team has a hole at a position and a guy like Thompson, who rarely makes a player personnel mistake, cuts you, there’s a reason. So Joe wasn’t buying at all what Dominik was selling on Lumpkin and Lumpkin’s play in preseason and yesterday has borne out Joe’s concerns.

  50. thbs5599 Says:

    i dont think anyone asked this but why is benn not on the field more often. i see in alot of third and longs or obvious passing downs we go with williams parker and winslow. i get williams and parker but how about benn instead of winslow. also we run a lot of two tight end sets on these long passing downs how about spreading the ball out seems like when freeman is in that two or four minute offense he does pretty good besides the 4th pic he had yesterday, but lets run some no huddle more often im sick of moving so slow to the line (before halftime and getting 3 not 6 ) i want to see more of an up beat offense

  51. d clark Says:

    Thank you Joe really tired hearing ppl B)&*((&G about sproles every post. He wasn’t gonna come here. Get over it.

  52. Eric Says:

    Cowher is one of the best coaches in football, just look at his record. Unbelievable string of winning and division titles and two Super Bowl appearances with a ring.

    Oh I forgot, we don’t pay any attention to that around here. Irrelevant.

    I do have a question. How is it John Mckay, a college coach with no nfl experience could build the number one defense in the NFl in his fourth year from absolutely nothing (79 bucs), with no free agency even allowed, yet the supposed defensive guru Rah is sitting on 28th ranked defense in his third year, coaching a team for which he was a member of the defensive staff for years before he took over?

    Get off Freemans back and look at the performance of our DC. And he coached under one of the best DC’s in history and can’t produce didley squat defensively.

  53. admin Says:

    Joe here,

    @Eric — Surely not calling Raheem a great DC. He surely hasn’t proven anything there yet on that front. It’s still hard to believe he and Dominik assessed the talent and thought Jim Bates’ system was the best fit. But you can’t compare to Monte. Not playing with the same deck of talent. Joe’s been calling for a defensive mind to come and help him out. Dungy did have Kiffin.

  54. NickinMelb Says:

    Joe I understand your points although I also mentioned Marion Barber who is at least a cut above Lumpkin. I agree with Eric that if we could have somehow have hired Cowher I don’t think you see the degree of 1st half incompetence that we have seen so far this year. Raheem has a way of proving all of his critics wrong but this year I am seeing players like Talib and Winslow with actions on the field that any Head Coach should take some action on. Is Raheem capable of reeling in these super egos?? I don’t think Cowher would have that problem. Winslows demanding the ball and getting in Freemans face during the Saints game was an embarrassment that I knew would play with Freemans head. Since then he has been forcing the ball into Winslow for no apparent reason. Raheem should have taken action on both of these clowns long ago.

  55. Captain Stagger Says:

    Problems top to bottom:
    Owners – yes build through the draft, but when Bryan Glazer explained that we won’t be players in free agency until we have a team on the verge of being a super bowl contender I bought into the idea that “the owners are cheap” No we won’t go to the super bowl ever year but it would be nice to have owners that at least tried to make it ever year.

    Dominick – He has done a good job with what he has to work with, solid drafts, Blount, keonon, (and hopefully Spann) but he is too much of a salesman for me. Don’t sell me Black, Don’t sell me Lumpkin, don’t sell me MC80, Don’t sell me that this team has swagger…

    Morris – slow starts = poor preparation, 2nd most penalized team in the league = no dicipline, nothing about how he runs this team seems like it’s taken seriously. He is the anti Belichek and our teams play shows it.

    Olie – Do I even need to discuss the playcalling.

    Van Pelt – why does our QB’s footwork make Rob Johnson look polished?

    Stretz and Millard – Can’t say much here, DLine has been improved, and they are all kids.

    Freeman – where to begin, staring down receivers, forcing throws, throwing off his back foot, reluctance to tuck it and run, and he needs to take control of K2

    Receivers – no speed, no separation, drops

    Backs – can’t say much, this is more an injury concern

    O-line – again, they were doing ok until injuries.

    D-line – Clayborn and Bennett are bright spots, Price, McCoy, and Bowers have flashed, I’m ok here.

    LB – Foster is a keeper, but I still think he is better suited to play SAM. Hayes and Black are 2nd string. Draft Bufict and Te’o 1 and 2 and I Love our front 7.

    CB – Assuming Ronde retires, there isn’t another corner on this team that I am confidant in.

    S – Jackson is a playmaker, jones is servicable, but a bit of a drop off after that. I wonder what A Black looks like on the field….who knows???

    I love this team, ups and downs, and yes there is allot of potential, but from top down I am disappointed.

  56. 941-Bucs Says:

    I love how everyone brings up Cowher.. the guy only won one SB. and it was at the END of his career. I mean he is more of a hard nosed Coach but look where the last one like that landed us. A super talented Team slowly picked apart till it was nothing and we will have to restart this process again.

  57. NickinMelb Says:

    941 here is a Cowher stat for you, only the 2nd head coach in NFL history to take his team to the playoffs his first 6 seasons as head coach. The year before he took over they were 7-9. I would live with that right now rather than this undisciplined bunch we are seeing week in and week out. I also agree where the heck is Van Pelt and Olson in this Freeman mess. Surely they are not settling him down after interceptions and they apparently are not stressing to him to hit the open receiver rather than the one crying the most (Winslow).

  58. Joe Says:


    i dont think anyone asked this but why is benn not on the field more often. i see in alot of third and longs or obvious passing downs we go with williams parker and winslow.

    Joe asked this very question Sunday night.

  59. Paul Says:

    I saw a complete lack of maturity between Freeman and Winslow during the 49’ers game.

    Freeman appeared to chew Winslow out for his route running, not Winslow in Freeman’s ear asking for receptions like King says.

    What happened next was Freeman forcing the ball to Winslow in double coverage.

    Judging by the attitude Freeman displayed towards Winslow on the previous play, I’d have to say that he forced that ball to him out of anger when Winslow ran the same route, trying to make him look bad.

    I’m no Psychiatrist but maybe you can look at it and come up with an opinion. There’s definitely a problem between these two, they just had an article about the same thing on BucsNation.

  60. Sgt Mike Says:

    I still say the Coaching is the weakest link here. Everyone gave Morris a longer leash with a solid season last year. Now teams have film on your tendacies. The coaches were that easy to figure out that quick. Although, I was glad to have an up season last year I was pretty certain that Rah and the current coaches would have a lot of trouble repeating. He has not proven a thing to me. We should have went after a decent coach or one of the up and coming coordinators showing success around the league to build on. We have Olsen who has never had much success and Rah who is barely more than a defensive assistant. Now, is it too late to change coaches? Would it be counterproductive to a young teams development to go with new coaches? We are kinda stuck. Short of a homerun trade for a RB that compliments Blount and Graham to make it a formidable running crew. We are stuck. Frustrating to watch. Go Bucs!!