No Signing Bonuses, Big Salaries For Joseph, Black

August 4th, 2011

The Bucs won’t be cutting massive checks to their big free agent signings until next month. But it’s coming, so ESPN blogger Pat Yasinskas detailed today.

Yasinskas says he’s looked at the contracts of Davin Joseph and hopefully-not-overpaid Quincy Black, and they’ll get big first-year paydays before their annual salaries slowly drop.

The Bucs didn’t give Joseph a signing bonus on his seven-year, $52 million contract. Instead, they put a ton of money right up at the front of Joseph’s contract. They gave him a $9.5 million base salary for this year and the same for next year. Both years are fully guaranteed.

After that, Joseph’s base salary drops to $6 million in 2013 and stays the same in 2014. It rises to $7 million in 2015 and stays the same in 2016. In 2017, Joseph’s schedule salary is $7.5 million.

The Bucs took a similar tact when they brought back linebacker Quincy Black. He didn’t get a signing bonus either, but he got a big first-year salary. Black will earn $6 million this year and his salary drops to $5.5 million for each of the following four years.

Looking at the massive payday for Quincy Black — Quincy Black! — Joe wonders how incredibly motivated Geno Hayes must be. Hayes will be a free agent in 2012.

One could make an argument that Hayes, who turns just 24 next week, is more valuable right now.

73 Responses to “No Signing Bonuses, Big Salaries For Joseph, Black”

  1. FlBoy84 Says:

    Really curious to see how the linebacker depth chart shakes out. With starters money being paid to Quincy Black and McKenzie seemingly poised to start in the middle, curious to see if the team tries Foster at Will since they seem so high on him (once he learns the playbook).

  2. flmike Says:

    Hopefully these guys don’t act like Osi Uminora is, he got very similar deal from the Giants, got all his money in the first 3 years and is now demanding a new contract b/c his base salary dropped and he is playing for incentive money now, as per his negotiated contract, the one that he signed.

  3. T in Orlando Says:

    The no signing bouns contract is not new for the Bucs, when K2 signed his deal 2 years ago, he had the first 2 years guaranteed against performance, first 3 years agains injury (I might have that backwards) and no signing bonus.

    I actually like the way the Bucs are doing deals lately, as it seems like it should minimize the potential for “dead money” against the cap, while giving players a guaranteed number they like (as long as they’re ok with it not all up front).

    It could also be very business saavy if they start taking the guaranteed money for future years, and put it in a high-yeild savings account or bond (shouldn’t be too hard to find 5% – 6% returns when talking about multi-million dollar balances), that way the team (owners) could pocket the interest on money that would have other wise been paid all upfront to the players.

  4. FLBoyInDallas Says:

    Umenyiora’s biggest complaint isn’t money, it’s his status as guaranteed full-time starter on the team. He wants to be out front playing every single down on defense, not rotating with a bunch of other DE’s as if he’s nothing but rotational material. Yes, it’s prideful but it’s not really about money with him. He wants playing guarantees and the Giants aren’t willing to indulge him.

  5. Travis Says:

    “One could make an argument that Hayes, who turns just 24 next week, is more valuable right now.”

    I think I peed laughing at this.

    How do you REGRESS with a better supporting cast when your that young and justify making such a claim?

    Geno will be lucky to find a job next year playing like he did last year.

  6. FLBoyInDallas Says:

    But you’re right about Osi getting most of his money up front and now after he’s been paid he wants to cause problems and hold out for playing time guarantees or a trade.

  7. Mauha Deeb Says:

    Geno would be a top 10 LB if he wasn’t such a bad tackler. He was on of the worst in missed tackles last year. With 162 tackles and 30 misses over the past 3 years, he is 5th worst of linebackers over that time span. He had 73 tackles and 12 misses this past season alone, placing hi 3rd among LBs.

    After looking further into the teams numbers, it appears T-Jack is 3rd worst in the NFL at tackling among defensivebacks. With 114 tackles and 30 missed tackles, he is 3rd worst over the past three years.

    Not that this is a shock but Asante Samuels was the absolute worst. This maybe a surprise however: Asomugha was just behind Geno at 4th worst.

    Looks like the only Buc that was truly a great tackler(among his peers at their respective positions) over the past three years was Roy Miller, with 64 tackles and one miss.

  8. FLBoyInDallas Says:

    My bad…scratch my previous two comments. I was going off memory and had Osi mixed up with someone else, obviously. I just read all the PFT posts about him and it’s clear he thinks he’s “outplaying” his contract. This in spite of the fact that his average annual salary is still up there with the elite DE’s…it’s just that he got a large part of his contract up front. Now he wants to renegotiate because of the Charles Johnson deal with Carolina. Pure jealousy and pride. Just play it out and act like a man.

  9. admin Says:

    Joe here,

    @Travis — If you listened to Dave Moore through the season and in interviews, Moore raves on and on about how Hayes’ plays behind the line of scrimmage increased immensely last year. …It seems obvious to Joe. But feel free to keep urinating on yourself.

  10. aldo Says:

    if somebody ask me…. i think geno will be gone next season, until he accepts he will not be a starter, look, i love geno and i think he is a good player, but, like flboy84, im starting to belive in mason foster as a WLB, time will tell

  11. Mauha Deeb Says:

    If you take away 10 of twelve of Hayes’ missed tackles last year, you come down to a stat line of 92 tackles, 4 sacks, 6 pass deflections, 1int for a touchdown, and 1 bitchin forced fumble(which I believe was aginst the 49ers). Not Derrick Brooks/HOF numbers, but still better than the majority of ROLB in the league.
    Even PFF gave him a top 10 grade, though they did point out the glaring bad tackling and spotty game to game play.
    If he can get on his good game, and hold it for an entire season, he will be tops in the league.

  12. Mauha Deeb Says:

    Doesn’t Foster’s 250lbs frame seem a bit heavy for weakside LB? Generally that type of weight is applied to Strongside LB and MLB. Perhaps in Raheem’s system it will work, but to me, a 250 lbs weakside LB would be too slow to cover in the passing game consistently. I mean, Brooks was sometimes playing around 225lbs.(not comparing skill, just weight. I’m talking at you, Thomas)

  13. Jampersand Says:

    Mauha Deeb: Geno would be a top 10 LB if he wasn’t such a bad tackler.

    lol. Darren Sproles would be the best goal line back in the league if he weren’t 5’6.

    Geno doesn’t have the size to consistently bring guys down without help. But then again, he can’t be smaller than Cody Grimm, and that guy can tackle. Maybe he’ll prove me wrong.

  14. Travis Says:

    Your right about Geno making plays behind the LOS, problem is he takes too many chances going to TFL’s. He constantly missed tackles taking terrible angles to try and make the splash play behind the LOS, instead of being smart about it and making the sure tackle.

    Too bad we couldnt fuse Ruud with Geno we would be making tackles at the LOS… ooh well.. back too peeing myself….

  15. Mauha Deeb Says:

    @Jampersand Bad tackling can be fixed. 5’6″ can not lol.
    Weight has little to do with tackling e.g. Grimm(as you wrote), Brooks, Barber. Tackling is about form.
    There are plenty of big and strong terrible tacklers in this league. Just look at every OL for an example.

  16. thomas 2.2 Says:


    These contracts are really:

    2 years and 18 million for DJ (with club option for the future);
    2 years and 11.5 for Black (with club option for the future);

    First, these are good contracts for the Bucs, kudos to Dom. However, they are not the huge deals that have been reported – they are basically 2 year deals for average for NFL starters – they bucs can walk away from both contracts in 2 years having lost no money.

    Now, this further supports the argument that the Glazers are cheap. A more cap friendly contract (but initially more expensive) could have been drafted by making additional money a signing bonus which gets prorated over the life of the deal. Here, the bucs are trying to inflate, not deflate as most teams do, their cap numbers. Yes, it is real money but the bucs chose not to spread out the bonus so they are forced to obtain additional players and spend additional money while still approaching the cap.

    Today, the radio is jammed packed with Thomasites calling the Glazers on the carpet – I love it! I am proud of this town. Many are saying that they arent going to the games b/c of the Glazers “plan” to go cheap.

    If this season is not satisfactory, the fan base will be pissed and gone.

  17. admin Says:

    Joe here,

    @Thomas 2.2. — “Thomasites,” you always find a way to reach a new level.

  18. sunrisejeff Says:

    “It seems obvious to Joe. But feel free to keep urinating on yourself.”

    Thanks joe………I needed a new keyboard for work and the stream of Diet Dew this line just produced should help me get one lol.

  19. OAR Says:

    Rhymes with parasites! Coincidence? I think not!

  20. thomas 2.2 Says:

    Thanks Joe! I am trying elevate the debate which can onloy be accomplished through differing opinions. (Of course, I was kidding about the Thomasites – just anectdotally responding to the argument that I am in a minority in the community – after hearing radio traffic lately, I now disagree.) The split is close but I believe that more folks believe that the Glazer plan is “to cost-cut” and that it is not good for significant winning now. Many are saying that they are not buying tickets because of it.

    I have said that I was part of a group of season tix holders- about a dozen of us who went to games together for the better part of 20 years – almost all of us gave up or tickets after the 2009 debacle because of what was done to the team. We are not alone. I know you sheep want to fully blame the economy, that surely contributes, but many of us disagree with the direction. Last year was a fluky year bc of the crazy schedule of back-up qb’s, this year should be a real test.

    One day the motivations behind the madness will be exposed. If the team makes the playoffs much of this will be overlooked. If the team gets left way behind its competitors who draft well AND engage meaningfully in UFA and trades for key vets, the fanbase and your traffic will be pissed. That is probably good for your business Joe. Even though none of us, yes including me, is hoping for another no-playoffs season.

  21. Mauha Deeb Says:

    @Thomas It is only a loss to those fans that don’t by tickets. It leaves more tickets for guys like myself.

    My only concern is the affects of the lock out. The age of the team is going to be exposed a bit this year due to a lack of OTAs and chance for the offense and defense to get their timing down and plays down. Outside of that, there is no reason to not believe they won’t be any better this than last. There is quite a lot of talent on this team. With age, that talent will get better. I can not say the same for the Saints or Panthers. The Panthers have extreme talent at a handle of positions, and then a glaring lack of talent everywhere else.

    At the very least the Bucs should have an exciting offense.

    I still don’t understand how a dollar amount is going to stop fans from showing up. If the Bucs continue to win, those same fans will show up, as history has shown.

  22. Mauha Deeb Says:

    “there is no reason to not believe they won’t be any better this than last.”
    I need to proof learn how to proof read.

    please insert: *there is little reason to believe this team will not be better than last season.*
    Now that’s what I call English!

  23. kh Says:

    Thomas, quit making idle threats and just say good bye & go support the eagles, no one cares.

    I like that they aren’t bound into long term contracts for Black and Joseph, it means theres flexibility.

    By your logic, they shoud have guarnateed 7 years to not appear to be cheap? But then you would say they overpaid. Can’t win.

  24. Brandon Says:

    Gee, kind of makes you wander if the guys that are charged with the task of watching and grading each individual player on each individual play saw what I’ve been saying for a while now… Quincy Black is a pretty good player. Sorry if some of you other people don’t see it, but it was clearly apparent to me that Black did a good job, and the stats back him up.

  25. Matt Says:

    @Thomas 2.2 Oh for crying out loud. Rarely are NFL contracts ever guaranteed for more than a couple of years. Many are only guaranteed for the single year. And they usually come with a large signing bonus and salaries that escalate in the later years. Let’s play a little game here, which contract is better?

    1) The contract as described above:
    2011+2012: 9.5M
    2013+2014: 6M
    2015+2016: 7M
    2017: 7.5M

    2) A more typical NFL contract:
    Signing Bonus: 21M
    2011+2012: 2M (Cap Hit: 5M)
    2013+2014: 4M (Cap Hit: 7M)
    2015+2016: 6M (Cat Hit: 9M)
    2017: 7.5M (Cap Hit: 10.5M)

    1) Has a guaranteed portion of 2 years, 19M. 2) Has a guaranteed portion of 1 year, 23M.
    1) Puts the salary cap hit upfront. 2) Puts the salary cap hit on the back end.

    Contract 1 is better for the Bucs and better for the Glazers, obviously. Now, for Joseph, this is tricky. Yes, he gets 4M less money now with Contract 1. But after four years, he’s made 31M instead of 33M, very close. And after year 6, it’s the same.

    But here’s the thing: Contract 2 is structured to encourage the team to dump the player as early as possible due to his increasing salary cap hit. So there’s a good chance that Joseph would be more likely to actually GET the money in Contract 1.

    These contracts have nothing to due with cheapness. In all likelihood, Joseph will be with this team come 2015. The contracts have EVERYTHING to do with Dominik doing everything he can to structure his contracts now with an eye on the future, knowing that in 2013 he’s going to have big contracts on the books for Freeman, Williams, McCoy, etc.

    Not everything is a conspiracy. Sometimes it’s just smart thinking.

  26. Mauha Deeb Says:

    @kh You nailed it. If the team spends the money, “parasites” bitch about on whom. If they don’t spend a bunch of money, they’ll bitch about whom the team didn’t spend it on. If the team lose games with a low team salary, they’ll blame it on the low team salary. If the team lose games with high a team salary, they’ll blame it on crappy players. When the team wins, they’ll say the team didn’t win, the opponents “gave away the game”. If the team loses, they’ll say the opponents beat us “fair and square”.

    It doesn’t end. It is a futile defeatist attitude in an attempt to make oneself feel elite. If they can make everyone else look crappy and dumb, they can make themselves feel better, to themselves, by comparison. This is a tactic used for ages by the weak and timid in an attempt to make everyone else feel as small and simple as they do. Don’t buy into it. It is just a gimmick/ruse.

  27. Mauha Deeb Says:

    @Brandon I would never argue that Black isn’t a “pretty good player”. I agree. I just hope he turns into even a “good” player. He certainly isn’t any worse than Scott Shanle lol

  28. OAR Says:

    That’s “awesome” money for just “a pretty good player”!

  29. OAR Says:

    Hopefully, these LBs are better than just pretty good!

  30. SteveK Says:

    The LB Play for this team is going improve this year. That is bc our D-Line is going to the step up.

  31. BigMacAttack Says:

    Thomas, you and your little A-hole buddies are a bunch of wimps. One bad season from Raheem and you just give it up. What a wuss. I’d sure hate to have you on my side in a fire fight. You’d probably dig your foxhole to China, have all your ammo when it’s over, with a white flag ready and waving. Your stupid argument about bailing after 3-13 has no merit, because previous Coaches had bad seasons too.

    The Bottom line is YOU ARE A LIAR!!! You didn’t have tickets for 20 years. I’m calling BS on that. You have probably been to more Lion’s games than Buc’s games. Here’s why Chump:

    1989 – 5 wins
    1990 – 6 wins
    1991 – 3 wins – Hello????
    1992 – 5 wins
    1993 – 5 wins
    1992 – 6 wins
    And now your beloved Chucky
    2004 – 5 wins
    2006 – 4 wins

    And you mean to tell me that through all of that 20 years of lying to yourself, you and your homosites stuck it out, but Raheem goes 3-13 in his rookie season as HC and you pull the plug. That’s a lie, and lie on top of lie. You hate Raheem because he’s black and he is far superior to your dumb little A$$ in every way shape and form. You hate this team. Your debates are erroneous and you really just suck the life out of every meaningful conversation on this site.

    Sorry to all the real Buc Fans here for being a buzzkill, but we all know what would happen if Thomasina or Eric spouted off this crap in front of us at a game. I’m sick of all the garbage from idiots like that who are not fans of this team. They are bigots that spread nothing but filth and hate for all that enjoy life and are content with meager givings.

    God has a special place for you son, and if you continue down your road, you may just find it sooner than later.

  32. Mauha Deeb Says:

    “The Bottom line is YOU ARE A LIAR!!! You didn’t have tickets for 20 years. I’m calling BS on that. You have probably been to more Lion’s games than Buc’s games. Here’s why Chump:

    1989 – 5 wins
    1990 – 6 wins
    1991 – 3 wins – Hello????
    1992 – 5 wins
    1993 – 5 wins
    1992 – 6 wins
    And now your beloved Chucky
    2004 – 5 wins
    2006 – 4 wins”

    Way to dig out a great argument! I never thought of that, but it all makes sense now. He clearly isn’t a Bucs fan. Thanks for spelling out like real men do, BMA.

  33. Thomas "the Truth" 2.2 Says:

    “if you continue down this road you may just find it (gods special place) sooner than later”

    That Sounds like a death threat?

    I would respond to the false threats of racism but for the seriousness of this.

  34. Thomas "the Truth" 2.2 Says:

    “if you continue down this road you may just find it (gods special place) sooner than later”

    That Sounds like a death threat? Possibly a crime.
    I would respond to the false threats of racism but for the seriousness of this.

  35. Joke Says:

    I like the front-loaded contracts. Spend the money now while we have it, and save cap space for a few years from now when we’re gonna need it to resign Williams, Blount, Benn, Freeman et al.

  36. Mauha Deeb Says:

    “That Sounds like a death threat? Possibly a crime.”
    It wasn’t threat, but a possible outcome of life decisions. Everyone is in that same boat.

  37. Thomas 2.2 Says:

    The generally accepted quality of the contract is defined by how much is guaranteed. NFL contracts are frequently guaranteed but rarely for the duration of the contract.

    For cap friendliness, typically the first year or two of salary is reduced by an amount of money designated as a signing bonus. The signing bonus, unlike the salary, is spread out over the life of the contract which keeps the cap hit down – to allow you to acquire more higher paid players. If you don’t care about that, you don’t use the signing bonus flexibility.
    I said that I thought Dom negotiated good contracts, but the structure is evidence that they are trying to gobble up cap room for appearances and not be cap creative for keeping room to acquire top players later.

  38. Mauha Deeb Says:

    @Thomas “but the structure is evidence that they are trying to gobble up cap room for appearances and not be cap creative for keeping room to acquire top players later.”
    The structure of these contracts will leave more room for movement when the cap floor is mandated in the 2013 season. Appearances have nothing to do with it.

  39. New Era Bucs Says:

    At a boy Big Mac

  40. BecklesHeartsRuud Says:

    Whats with this idiot who thinks the Glazers are disingenuously trying to “appear” to be spending money? Does he actually think that billionaires like the Glazers really give a damn what turds like him think? And that they sit around trying to dream up ways to structure contracts to “appear” to be using up cap space all in hopes of appeasing these little turds who’s opinions on their financial dealings weigh so heavily on their souls? Hilarious.

  41. Tampa--->Baaaaaaayyyy Says:

    So, Thomas complaining about the Bucs not spending more money on free agents means that he hates Raheem because he is black?

    Talk about pulling the race card.

    If Thomas wasn’t a Bucs fan he could easily go to the Eagles message forums and talk about the next dynasty. But he hasn’t. He talks on Bucs boards because he is interested in his team. He just doesn’t like the direction and decisions it is headed.

    Thomas is a Bucs fan who is not afraid to challenge the sheep. I don’t see how that is a problem. He is venting his disgust about the team not signing free agents or bringing in veterans or going with an unproven coach. I mean, how is that a bad thing?

    If anything, it’s the pot calling the kettle black. The protectors are so defensive about criticism that they just throw their hands up and pull the race card because no one is ALLOWED to criticize the Bucs while they are in the Raheem Morris era.

    The same people who trashed Barrett Ruud, are having tears for losing Carnell Williams? How can this be? Was Ruud not a veteran who had better stats than Williams over his span here? How can this be?

    I know.

    It’s because Thomas is racist.

    Real cool fans we got in Tampa. Yeah.

  42. Mauha Deeb Says:

    So, how many alter egos does Thomas have? Eric, Thomas, Tampa—>Bay etc.
    They all use the same exact language.

  43. Tampa--->Baaaaaaayyyy Says:

    What is that? English?

  44. Mauha Deeb Says:

    @T–>B The sheep talk. As you call everyone else sheep, you all sound exactly the same lol How ironic.

  45. Mauha Deeb Says:

    Although I do very much agree the racist part was really overboard. He has never said anything remotely racist. That is just pure angry speculation from BMA. I understand his frustration though. Trying to figure out Thomas is beyond confusing. Even my Saints friends recognize the talent this team possesses, but he does not.

  46. Jonny Says:

    @Joe: So you don’t mind Davin Joseph being paid like the 2nd best guard of NFL, but have a problem with Quincy Black, our best LB’s contract?

  47. Mauha Deeb Says:

    @Jonny Is his contract really that high in comparison to the top two paid in the league? I had no idea. I haven’t even looked into it. I try to stay away from the monetary aspect of the team, but clearly he is not even in the top 10 guards in the NFL let alone a top two.

  48. BigMacAttack Says:

    He just hasn’t said anything racist against our coach recently. I called him a bigot. I didn’t call him a racist. Wimps like him will take anything as a threat because they are always looking for a reason to cry wolf, cry for help, or just cry in general. Mauha Deeb explained what I wrote about life decisions because the little twerp is too stupid to understand the ENGLISH language. He misconstrues and spins every person’s words on this blog. I don’t usually mince words, and I would never outright threaten someone so recently removed from the crib, who lacks the ability to defend himself, much less wipe his nose or his own A$$. Maybe the reason I like Raheem so much is because I am “an angry worker”.

    I love Raheem. I love Dom. I love how the Glazers are allowing them to build this team……. the right way.

    Take a hike Thomas. No one’s buying that bogus BS you keep trying to sell here. Save the lies for your mom when your late for supper.

  49. Mauha Deeb Says:

    “He misconstrues and spins every person’s words on this blog.”

    I wrote earlier:

    “It is a futile defeatist attitude in an attempt to make oneself feel elite. If they can make everyone else look crappy and dumb, they can make themselves feel better, to themselves, by comparison. This is a tactic used for ages by the weak and timid in an attempt to make everyone else feel as small and simple as they do. Don’t buy into it. It is just a gimmick/ruse.”

    lol I guess I’m a sheep lol

  50. Jake Says:

    @Big Mac Attack. There is medication available out there that could really help you. Try some. Its a game, a pastime. Not everyone embraces what is going on with the rebuilding and thats ok. Doesn’t make anyone less of a fan. Chill.

  51. Thomas 2.2 Says:

    There are legit opinions that differ from yours, gentlemen. The personal attacks and/or personal threats are unnecessary – the season will answer many questions.
    Fans are allowed to complain about aspects that they disagree with. As far as I know, Joe doesn’t limit commenting to only fanatical positives.

    Of course this team has talent. Freeman, Williams, Penn, Joseph, Talib, Ronde have proven this. Dom and Olson have done very well.There are many more questions than answers. Who is the second receiver? (been isn’t ready and is unproven). Who will rush the passer? Who will stop the run? who will be the third down back? How is the depth? Backup qb? The list goes on and on. It could have been shortened through fa and trades but that cost money.

  52. Mauha Deeb Says:

    @Thomas “There are many more questions than answers. Who is the second receiver? (been isn’t ready and is unproven). Who will rush the passer? Who will stop the run? who will be the third down back? How is the depth? Backup qb? The list goes on and on. It could have been shortened through fa and trades but that cost money.”

    You already have answers to all those questions, sans #2 WR. We pretty much know what the line up will be with a “few up in the air”. Outside of that it is as you said: “the season will answer many questions”. So, why in the mean time do you continue to bash, bash and bash? If the season will answer many questions, why don’t you opt for some positivity while you wait for those answers instead of riding with this “Negative Nancy” vibe?

  53. Hawaiian Buc Says:

    Notice how Thomas still hasn’t addressed the fact of why he kept his tickets (allegedly) throughout all those other miserable seasons, yet he did after Raheem’s rookie year. That’s his play, always has been, always will be. He spins facts, puts words in people’s mouth, and refuses to answer questions that prove what he is really about. I have no idea if he is a racist or a bigot, anyone care to argue that he will never be satisfied with anything Raheem does? Anyone want to argue that he wishes success for our team? Mark my words, he will disappear off this site before he will ever do that.

  54. Mauha Deeb Says:

    And as far as the personal attacks go, you are no more innocent than anyone else.

    I do need to add to your statement of “There are legit opinions that differ from yours, gentlemen.”. I have tried to get factually based statements out of you on multiple occasions. You generally do not reply(I assume this is because you don’t have a credible retort) and when you have, it is typically more baseless opinions. You have said the stats I used were useless i.e. “PFF stats have been proven to be unreliable”. And when I’ve used stats from other sources that corroborate the original stats given, you just do not reply.

    “Gerald McCoy is a bust” is not argumentative circumspection when opinion is the entirety of the argument.

    To say you “there are legit opinions that differ from yours”, that would assume you have a legitimate foundation for your opinions. Many times you do not back your opinions with facts, stats, or logical understanding of the game. They often come off as based in negativity and little else.

    Until you give truly “legit” basis and reasoning for your ill found words, you will always sit as an uninformed minority.

  55. Mauha Deeb Says:

    @HawaiianBuc lol I just wrote something similar about him avoiding certain questions that challenge his point of view. It is easier for him to avoid a question than have to think deeply about his beliefs. He isn’t the only one. Some people are just wired to run away from uncomfortable situations. I wish it weren’t so, but that is how our creator(or whatever it is or is not) made us.

  56. Hawaiian Buc Says:

    Yeah, I doubt we will hear from Thomas anymore on this post. He’s been once again exploited as the fraud he is, so he will just wait until the next article to infect us all with his hate.

  57. BigMacAttack Says:

    Thomas, I don’t really care what you think because your brain can’t fathom reason or logic. I’ll own being fanatically positive. I’ll own being overly optimistic at times. I have admitted openly that I was originally down on Raheem, Dominick and the Freeman Draft pick, but they all won me over. Why? Because I am a reasonable person and I am an unconditional fan of this team, unlike some, but not most. I don’t need medicine but as the old Under Armor commercial said ‘We Must Defend this House”, and I believe that. If someone criticizes a player that begins a debate. We all disagree at times, but when someone criticizes all of our players, coaches, owners, etc. that is not a debate, but pure d hate. If you consider yourself a fan of a team and hate on the entire team, then it is you, the uninformed person that is in need of medication. Some of us see the Bucs as a hobby, a passion, and at times, all too often, an obsession. But that doesn’t make it wrong. With all the wrong that is wrong in this country today, one of the few positives we still have is the Bucs, and the NFL. This is why it was so important to end the lockout. If you are not a passionate Buc Fan, then really, aren’t you in the wrong place? I have been spouting my BS on this site for a long long time. It has been fun and many great debates. I consider many of you friends, and I enjoy reading and learning from you. I can honestly say that Thomas is the number one source of Pollution here since day 1, and brings absolutely nothing to the table. Many have been banned for various reasons, but none have been bigger, more consistent haters than Thomas. I agree that we should disagree and not all be 100% behind every decision, but when it’s pure unadulterated hate every day, from a 40 yr old going on 12, with several different screen names so he get agreements, I think he is the one with the problem. My only problem is the season hasn’t started yet, and I don’t care if I’m wrong about the Bucs, I’ll admit it, but I won’t hate on them in advance just so I can say “I told you so”.

  58. BigMacAttack Says:

    You have obviously never been to an Eagles’ game at the Vet. Tell anyone of those 50,000 fans “It’s just a game” and see what happens. You are the perfect example of a typical Buc Fan. You go to 2 games a season. You sit quietly in your seat, cheer only when they score, and are only on the receiving end of High Fives. You have 2 Buc Magnets on your car, a perfectly kept grill that you only use for your 2 tailgates each season under your Bucs’ Tent. Thank you for your patronage and what in the hell does ‘Chill” mean?

  59. BigMacAttack Says:

    Okay, I have been a little brash and I apologize to Joe for that.

  60. Jonny Says:

    Yes Mahua, Davin is making barely less than Jahri Evans. Davin wanted to stay with the Bucs all along and has had 2 down years prior to being offered the contract. Not sure why Joe is mad about Quincy Black making average LB money while Davin is the one that clearly got overpaid.

    Profootballfocus, a site whose articles are often quoted by Joe here, ranked him as one of the worst guards for last two seasons.

  61. Hawaiian Buc Says:

    Very well said BigMac.

  62. Mauha Deeb Says:

    @Jonny WOW! $Davin gets $52 mil and Jahri got $56 mil!!! That is ridiculous. PFF actually has Davin Joseph dead last over the past three years.

    Still, they do have him and Trueblood as the best tandem in 2007. Ever since we switched our blocking scheme our blocking went to crap. They do recognize that the scheme change might be the main contributing factor to his poor production the past three years, but they also say there is no way he should get paid that much.

  63. Mauha Deeb Says:

    Another good point thanks to HawaiianBuc.

    Thomas says: “talib is a big name, maybe the biggest, when it comes to problem players.”

    HawaiianBuc retorts: “So a guy that has been suspended a grand total of one game in his career is the biggest problem player in the league? WOW!!! Parish Cox, Big Ben, Pacman Jones, Donte Stallworth, Michael Vick, and about 100 other players….”

    Another prime example of Thomas’ version of “legit opinions”.

    I hope this opens your eyes and mind to yourself, Tom. This is the bed you have made.

  64. Thomas 2.2 Says:

    You ignore that Talib: punched someone at the rookie symposium and lacerated cox’s face while swinging a helmet at Penn- I not know how the league dealt with those infractions – either do you.

    Re McCoy: I said he was a huge disappointment in year 1 based on the preseason propaganda – he was. I cited a publication that called him the biggest bust of the last draft so far.
    I kept my tickets through all those years because I enjoyed the games. Actually, we had the tickets from 1992-2009. At the sombrero we had 4 seats in the front row of the second sectioning the south corner – great seats. If memory serves we had 3 poor seasons until 1996, Dungy’s second year when we made the playoffs. The Gruden years, except for the Gradkowski year debacle, we were winning the division virtually every other year, we won a super bowl and although you disagreed with some things – you always felt like you were as good as every team in the division. No longer – we are a clear third – and not trying hard to get better.

    I am not boycotting rah rah as much as the “plan.” I believe that the stated “plan” is bulls-it. I think that it is driven mostly by economics. Why, if you think your team is competitive, and ownership says we will add studs when we are competitive and you have plenty of cap room, are they not adding studs? Either they aren’t competitive or your beloved Glazers are full of s-hit.

  65. OAR Says:

    Wow, I hate to say this, but it looks like you guys just wasted 3 hours with Thomass! Good luck, with that!

  66. BigMacAttack Says:

    Thomas, again you’re a LIAR and an idiot. It took you all that time to come up with that BS argument. So let me get this straight, your friend that had season tickets for all those years took you to one game because the other 10 people he offered the ticket to were unable to go. Then he lost his job in 09′ and had to give up his tickets. Don’t try to act like you don’t hate Raheem and McCoy after all the hate you have cast upon them daily. Unbelievable. If you want to break away from the Dark Side of the Force, just do it, but don’t beat around the bush and try to act like you are something other than you are. Look in the mirror, what do you see???? POS.

  67. Mauha Deeb Says:

    @THomas Try again, buddy. Talib did not get punished, we all know this. Talib is not in the spot light. We all know this. He might be known here for his exploits, but he is not being talked about at water coolers nationwide.

    Here is the link to the McCoy/Bust article you referred us too a a month or so back:

    You said they called him the biggest bust of 2011…. Funny that they DID NOT SAY ANY OF THAT: “Now pretty much regardless of who was picked from last year’s draft class was going to wind up at No. 10. Why? They’ve only had a year. Yes, a lot of first-rounders are expected to make an instant impact — particularly top-10 picks — but a year is too short a timespan to truly consider someone a ‘bust.’….. It should be noted that McCoy didn’t have an awful rookie season ”
    They immediately wrote that he was not a bust and that he wasn’t “awful”. That is not how you spun that article.

    To say you twist words to fit your meaning is an understatement. You decimate the language.

    Now, take of the Negative Nancy cap, and put on a Bucs cap. I’ll even buy you one. No bullspitting.

  68. OAR Says:

    He’s like that feral nieghborhood cat, feed it once and it will be back every day!

  69. Matt Says:

    @Thomas2.2: “I said that I thought Dom negotiated good contracts, but the structure is evidence that they are trying to gobble up cap room for appearances and not be cap creative for keeping room to acquire top players later.”

    See, that’s where your crazy clouds your judgement: Cap space is not being gobbled up for appearances. There is no minimum, there is no reason for appearances. Plus, they are still near the bottom. No, cap space is being gobbled up now so that it isn’t gobbled up later, when they will actually have a lot of good players to sign to long-term contracts.

    I just wish myself and most of the other people on here didn’t have to wait another 2-3 years to prove you wrong.

  70. Thomas 2.2 Says:

    Matt you are clueless:

    There is a salary floor this year you fool, a league-wide one, that if it isn’t met the league has to pay the shortage in cash to the nflpa. The Glazers are responsible for 1/32 of the shortage – which if 10 teams are 20 million or so under could equal a 6 – 7 million penalty per team. Further, the teams who are not the problem are going to be pissed and argue that the teams that are the problem like the bucs should have to kick in more.

    Stop talking.

    Bigmac – the more you ramble, a stop the the threats, the more ridiculous and pointless your rambling becomes.

    Muah- when you quote me, stop cutting out critical words to strengthen your position hoping that people won’t read what I wrote. I, and the article, said that he was a “disappointment” and the biggest bust of the 2010 draft “so far.” when you ignore the key quoted words it paints a different picture. Your credibility has just been compromised.

    I will say this for the last time: GMC was a huge disappointment “last year.” I expect him to be better this year, I know that he has been rehabbing hard, he looks like he is in better shape- positive signs. I have not said that he is so bad that he will be out of the league this year, he will end up being a decnt starter. My position has always been: he was not worth the #3 pick. The bucs reached for a position of need and not the most talented player. Then tried to sell him as the equivalent of Suh which was b.s. I argued that suh would be twice the player as McCoy, I was wrong – last year he was 3 or 4 times the player.

  71. OAR Says:

    “I will say this for the last time:…”
    Again! Yeah right, we could only wish!!! Too funny!

  72. Mauha Deeb Says:

    @Thomas The cap floor does not go into effect until 2013. Dominick said so himself.
    As far as my credibility, that magazine never said he was a bust at all. Not even “so far”. There is no need to correct me. My words are true. They haven’t left anything out. You are trying to weasel out of being caught without a truthful reason for your words. THey never said anything about him being a bust outside of “but a year is too short a timespan to truly consider someone a ‘bust.’It should be noted that McCoy didn’t have an awful rookie season — he just did OK.”. top ten picks generally do “ok” in their first seasons. As do many rookies. You simply don’t have a leg to stand on and the article sides with me, not yourself.

    You have called him a bust multiple. Only a couple of times have you ever mentioned the possibility of him being anything else.

    You either lie a whole lot, or you change your opinions a whole lot. Find a path and stick to it. If you don’t like the path, move away from it and admit you were wrong. But don’t try and argue out of both sides of your mouth. It is beyond ridiculous.

  73. BigMacAttack Says:

    The clothes just went in to the Spin cycle without being washed. What an idiot.