Don’t Shoot “The Messenger”

April 24th, 2011

Don’t take your anger out on Rick Stroud and discount his bold message today, says fellow St. Pete Times beat scribe Stephen Holder.

Holder came to Stroud’s defense in the comment section of after a barrage of hate was leveled at Stroud, who wrote unsourced claims today that the Bucs would have cut Aqib Talib already if not for the lockout and that Talib’s been almost completely written off by the organization.

Holder joined commenters under the story and told readers to keep it real.

Stephen Holder Apr 24, 2011 3:52 PM

Listen folks, if you don’t like the messenger, that’s got nothing to do with whether the content is true. We’re sometimes privy to things we can’t elaborate on because we’ve been asked not to. It’s one of the more difficult parts of the job. Rick has a very good basis for reporting this. Trust me. Brasho, I basically said the same thing in my chat the other day, so Rick and I are on the same page with this.

Holder went on, in a separate comment, to ascribe motives to commenters blasting Stroud. Joe hates when people ascribe motives.

“I’d just like to add that I think a lot of people are reacting emotionally to this because you don’t want to see the guy go. I get that. Unfortunately, the news isn’t reported based on what we want to hear. News simply is what it is, whether we like it or not,” Holder wrote.

Joe finds all of Holder’s comments amusing. In Joe’s world, “the news,” as Holder calls it, comes from a source, whether it be the reporter witnessing something and writing about it, or the reporter delivering the news and attributing said news to a source — anonymous or otherwise. Anything else is opinion.

As Joe wrote earlier in great detail, Joe is not buying any of this from the Times beat guys, not because they wrote it, but because it doesn’t fit Mark Dominik’s M.O.

25 Responses to “Don’t Shoot “The Messenger””

  1. Bob Ross Says:

    The beauty of unsourced, hypothetical stories is that their truthfulness is both irrelevant and impossible to disprove. You get to fill the space, attract attention and move on to the next meaningless hypothesis.

  2. Thomas 2.2 Says:

    Cmon guys. Clearly this is coming frim an upper level source – maybe a glazer. Both stroud and holder have heard and believe the same thing.

    Dom also said that ” you can never have enough corners” and to not be surprised if they took one early. If you think talib is back, and biggers and lewis are worth a damn, with barber back – corner would ba low low priority. This was dom being dom, knowing talib is gone and knowing that biggers and lewis are not quality nfl starters. They need 2 strong corners now, I expect 1 early and maybe 1 via trade.

    I hope that stroud and holders sources are correct. Cut this turd.

  3. bucyea Says:

    has Stroud or any one of Tampa?StPete “finest” ever said anything positive about the Bucs, except when they’re totally wrong and have no other choice? It makes ZERO sense ot outright release Talib, and domink is not as stupid as our ‘esteemed” local “sports writers. I would be shocked if Talib is released, without some sort of trade…why give away your best defensive player and your 1st round investment, and get nothing it return. the game is played on the field not the streets. Of course, Talib has a problem, but he’s young and extremely talented, ever heard of Chris Carter. Talib is extremely immature, but people do mature and this may be his “wake up call”. Would you like seeing Talib with the Pats going to ProBowls after SuperBowls for the next 5 years?

  4. bucyea Says:

    add Ray Lewis and Michael Irvin to that list…you just don’t give away talent like talib has. PacMan was a totally different deal, addicted to strip clubs and bling. Talib has an anger problem, but I do to. He was with his family not shotting up a a strip joint or makin it rain. get a grip people!

  5. bucyea Says:

    Oh that verse 2.2 or something from the devil part?

  6. bucyea Says:

    last comment was improper and uncalled for…apology

  7. BigMacAttack Says:

    Sounds like Holder & Stroud have some issues with their readers. I don’t comment there anymore, because their site is well …. boring. They post very little content anymore and working hard on the SPT Bucs beat just isn’t a priority over there. I’d swear those guys work about 8 hours per week. I read their site now about once every 2 weeks, and trust me when I say, I don’t miss a thing. At least this self inflicted wound from them hasn’t caught anyone else in the crossfire.

  8. Thomas 2.2 Says:

    Lewis had 1 issue a decade ago. Irvin, i dont remember many problems or suspensions during his career, but i could be forgetting. The talib problem is repeated and pervasive and will lead to his second suspension either way.

    My guess: he gets indicted for agg batt/agg assault and or weapons charges. He will need ct auth to leave the state for work but must agree to return for ct proceedings – a huge distraction.

    Talib’s counsel will push for an offseason trial, and may get it based on the complexity of the case.

  9. Thomas 2.2 Says:

    But either way, this will be a huge distraction during the season to team and player.

  10. BigMacAttack Says:

    This team has dealt with Aqib’s distractions for 3 years now. This case will not make any difference to the team and their performance on the field. Every single person in the world has problems and distractions. This is no different and if Aqib stays on the team, they will be fine. If he is cut or traded the team will still be fine. One player out of 53 does not a team collapse.

  11. bucyea Says:

    I have no problem with letting him go, via trade, but think it a bad “team” decision to outright release him. As for Irvin, major cocaine use, prositiutes, etc..arrested, investigated etc. but when he stepped on the field there was no better competitor and team player and was invaluable the cowboys run in the 90’s

  12. m.wesley Says:

    Irving wasnt suspended because the league was different back then,if it was like it is now we wouldnt hear much of him or Chris Carter

  13. beastmode27 Says:

    TWO WORDS:Nnamdi Asomugha

  14. Capt.Tim Says:

    I think cutting Talib is exactly Dominicks M.O. He has drafted high character guys.anyone with issues got extreme scrutiny and research, until it was obvious the guy wasn’t trouble. Talib is another piece of Gruden’s left over trash. I think Dom can’t wait to ship this loser outta here.

    As I said months ago, you can’t count on Talib. It’s Nnamdi time!

  15. Hawaiian Buc Says:

    Just for clarification (and a little bit of gossip that is completely true), Ray Lewis has had a least one more issue. A year or two after his event in Atlanta, he had an issue at the hotel they stay at for the pro bowl. To make a long story short, he asked for a drink at the pool bar. The bartender told him that the bar was closed, but he could go upstairs and get a drink from the bar there. Lewis then told the bartender that if he didn’t get him the drink right now he was going to put his hand through his throat and kill him. NFL security was called, and he was removed from the property. This story was told to me by someone very high up with the resort, as well as from the bartender himself (I work at that hotel on a regular basis). The Ravens knew about it, but they obviously didn’t seem to mind too much. I would say it worked out quite well for both parties.

  16. OB Says:

    I think that we need to remember that reporters report what they find out, not what they think. Columnists write what they think they know or believe.

    Second, as far as I am concerned, until he has his day in court, he is innocent, since he was not video taped to my knowledge.

    Lastly a drug test is proof that a drug was used just like a pregant test prove someone is pregant. There is not a test that has been released that he did anything yet and since the team cannot talk to him, who know what happened.

    Joe usually tells us when he is reporting and when he is thinking and so does Rick and Steve. So until there is a contract, this is a none issue but if on draft day, the Bucs choose a cornerback 1st, this might indicate what is going to happen.

  17. HIRE GREG OLSON! Says:

    Listen, we all know that Talib could get cut.

    However, we’re no closer today to cutting Talib than we were 5 days ago. So you wanna tell me that Rick Stroud just happens to drop this “anonymous” source’s leak that we’re cutting Talib on the SUNDAY BEFORE THE DRAFT??

    Oh, you mean Sunday, the most sold/read paper of the week??

    Give me a break. Talib can’t get cut until there’s a CBA. Until then, this isn’t news. Get the F*** out of here, Stephen Holder, with your half-assed support of Stroud. This is sensationalistic journalism AT BEST.

    Hey Stroud, I understand you don’t want to do a mock draft. That doesn’t sell papers.

  18. Pete Dutcher Says:

    Thomas 2.2 Says:

    April 24th, 2011 at 6:43 pm
    But either way, this will be a huge distraction during the season to team and player.

    That is simply untrue.
    How is Talib going to be a distraction when he’s suspended? And even during the time he isn’t, the man plays topnotch on the field. He is not a locker room problem.

    Except in the way of setting an example if he is guilty.

    Say the Bucs cut him…someone WILL sign him. And after his suspension, that team will reap the benefits. If a team is going to benefit from his playing while he’s on the field, then why shouldn’t it be the Bucs?

    At best, the Bucs need to have a contingency plan. Some CB, either already on the roster, a soon to be drafted one, or one signed in free agency will get a huge opportunity this year.

    Personally, I hope Talib gets to play at least 4 games before he gets suspended. That would give the new guy at least a little time to acclimate to the system and the NFL.

    And, if whoever it is does great, Talib will become a non-issue and will be more expendable.

  19. Pete Dutcher Says:

    And as to Steven Holder and Rick Stroud, I can imagine their conversation.

    Steven: Wow, Rick, they are really chewing you out.

    Rick: Yeah, I know.

    Steven: Can you back things up?

    Rick: Uh…sure…I’ve got my sources…yeah.

    Steven: You really have this from a reliable source?

    Rick: …sure…

    Steven: I believe you, bud…and I’ll let those stupid, no account suckers that buy our paper know you have good sources!

    And the rest is history.

    I think at the end of this, if Stroud is proven wrong, he should lose his job…because a newspaper that cannot be trusted isn’t a true newpaper that I would want to buy.

  20. Pete Dutcher Says:

    And, just to play devils advocate, let’s assume Dominick is his source. Dom cannot officially make those comments right now, so he would tell Dom it’s off the record.

    That’s the only scenario I could see where this news is true.

  21. Pete Dutcher Says:

    100% /signed.

  22. BigMacAttack Says:

    I love to watch fights, it’s my nature. Things have blown up a little this morning on the SPT site about this report. Holder was defending again, and more readers are on their butts calling them out. If the story is true, why not prove it. They could not have picked a worse time to release this story and if it was given to them by a high authority at 1 Buc, I can’t believe their intent was for this to go public at this time, unless it is spin for other teams regarding the Draft. It would be nice to see that someone has used Stroud as a Pawn in a friendly little game of draft chess. How does releasing this information to the press, help the Bucs? I don’t see it.

  23. Joe Says:

    How is Talib going to be a distraction when he’s suspended?


  24. Pete Dutcher Says:

    lol…seriously though…this team had a ton of rookies step in last year after losing far too many guys. That could have been a distraction and it wasn’t.

    It’ll all be fine, either way.

  25. bucyea Says: