Is Team Glazer Holding Fans Back?

November 1st, 2010

"I think we're more true to our core beliefs without a salary cap. Leave the free agency thing to Jerry Jones."

Tampa Tribune columnist Martin Fennelly is racking his brain to figure out whether Bucs fans will flock to home games now that the Bucs have proven they’re exciting and contending for a playoff berth.

Fennelly seems to find more questions than answers studying this subject today. Among the issues, Fennelly believes poor attendance is, in part, due to fans disdain for the actions or inactions of Team Glazer.

But it’s almost as if Bucs fans have been withholding their judgment early this season, almost as if they’re so beaten down that they want proof, always more proof, that this isn’t going to go away.

Yes, there’s the economy, too. And I think there’s some deep-rotted resentment toward ownership; the feeling that, true or not, the Glazers aren’t doing everything they can to make this franchise a winner again.

All of this is not the work of the liberal media. Fans, if you talked to them, have been decidedly neutral as Morris’ crew has surprised the league.

Now Team Glazer is not Vince Naimoli, the man who did everything he could to alienate fans from the Devil Rays and then was surprised when fans rejected him at the box office. Team Glazer has had major ups and major downs during their tenure in town, but in Joe’s mind they have to be surfing near the crest of a new wave right now.

Joe can’t imagine that today, at this moment, there’s more than a miniscule percentage of angry Bucs fans steaming with rage over Team Glazer’s handling of the team.

It’s very much Team Glazer’s executive decision-making — like it or not, respect it or not — that has the Bucs at 5-2 and sitting on a pile of talented young players and a mountain of payroll money they will have to spend when the NFL salary cap likely returns with a new labor agreement in 2011.

For Joe, Team Glazer is not a factor in attendance at the Bucs’ next home game against Carolina.

67 Responses to “Is Team Glazer Holding Fans Back?”

  1. eric Says:

    Lucky run will stop at some point.

    Probably what most folks are thinking.

  2. Capt.Tim Says:

    Damn Joe, you are on the Mark across the Board today. You musta stayed at a “holiday Inn Express”! Agree again 100%. a few haters may still believe the Glazers are somehow”cheap”, but it’s BS! Their issues with the last regime was that it didn’t. Develop young( expensive!!) talent! Our low salary level is do to our low talent level! Bet we don’t have that problem for long! Just guessing, but I bet Freeman, Williams, Blount, and others are gonna want( and deserve) a raise real soon! Glazers brought us a Super Bowl title! Look like they are gonna bring us another one, and the most exciting Buc Team and Staff EVER! Say what you want, I know we are lucky to have some of the best and most dedicated to winning owners in the entire league. And anyone who doesn’t belief me can remember, everything I’ve posted has been on the mark since I started posting here, including predicting that this team could be in the playoff race this year, which brought rounds of redicule back in May!

  3. The White Tiger Says:

    As they say “…if you build it, they will come…”

    …to this I would add that if you beat someone that’s good, we won’t feel like this is all just another smoke-and-mirror, “Five dash two”, type season.

    For now, we (fans) just see some lips moving…

  4. d-money Says:

    I’ve been saying this for a while. The Glazers get a bad rap and are beaten up in the media consistantly. Talk radio, blogs, and the local hack beat writers.

    Some of it is warranted but this past off season the daily barrage of negative articles about the Glazers was ridiculous and occasionally bordered on slander. It has to have taken its toll on their image.

    Hopefully people will start to see that yes they did have a plan and the right people are in place to execute that plan.

    If they don’t see it and continue to stay away then i feel sorry for them because I have a feeling it’s getting ready to be a really good time to be a Bucs fan.

  5. pete I Says:

    If I can’t afford the game today I won’t be able to afford it in 2 weeks.

    Ticket prices are to darn high. 5-2 is great and I am thrilled but it does not change the fact that at this point spending $ on a very expensive all day affair has to be balanced over the spending I have to do to survive week to week.

    If I can afford the game today I may not be able to afford it in 2 weeks.

  6. Rob Says:

    I don’t care who owns the team, but my observation is simply that when Kraft and Bilichick did exactly what the Glazers did THEY were considered geniuses. The Glazers were called cheap.

    Yes, this run will come to an end- they always do. But what I see with my own 2 eyes are a LOAD of young talent that we never had before. OL is showing promise, RB, WR, DL (with some seasoning), CB, LB. I also like the fact that they rarely make the same mistakes and keep getting better each week. That says (at least to me) that the coaches are doing their jobs. Could it be that Olsen is Gruden without the personality defects?

    The true test of the Glazers’ commitment will come when it’s time to pay Williams, Freeman, and all of the other late draft picks. If they do like Kraft did and pay the core players I’ll be happy. Will the Bucs keep them all happy? Hell no- but neither did the Pats… it’s their model and they’ve worked it to perfection… let’s see if the Bucs can keep the right players and continue to pick good ones.

    Does that mean the fans will come back? Sorry- anyone who uses coaches or owners as an excuse for not going to a game is not likely to be at a game at all even if DeBartolo and Cowher were here. Nobody goes to a game to see owners or coaches. We go to see players. My wife and I are huge fans and both have good jobs (knock on wood) but we can’t afford to go to games… imagine what it’s like for all of those folks in the services industry and contracting who can’t pay their bills! I don’t think we see sellouts again until restaurants stop closing, and contractors resume building.


    Of Course Eric and TWT still doubt. They are more worried about their predictions being right than enjoying this young and exciting Bucs team. Much Much more exciting than anything the previous regime even came close to putting on the field.

    Capt Tim, you nailed it on the head. The #1 reason for the low payroll was Gruden’s inability to either draft good talent that deserved an extension or the inability to develop said young talent into players that deserved extensions in the 7 seasons he was here.

    We went from having the worst drafts in the NFL under Gruden to having some of the best Drafts the last 2 seasons and have found gems in the late rounds and UDFA. Sure beats the crusty vet scrap heap that Gruden/Allen shopped at because they couldn’t develop their own young team.

    Suck it Haters. 5-2 and only getting better.

  8. bucfanjeff Says:

    @Rob – Olsen’s offense may have some Gruden written in, but rarely did Gruden take shots down the field like we have. I have to applaud Olsen, he said they would take shots and go vertical – he’s done that.
    As for the Glazers\Fans – ultimately fans want to go see a winning product. I get that. I’m more of a diehard so I would buy season tickets (if I still lived there) no matter what. That said, if I (or anyone) didn’t have the money…you just don’t have it.

  9. The White Tiger Says:

    Doubt thou the sun is fire

    Doubt thou truth be a liar

    ..but never doubt my love – for my Bucs.

    Just beat a “somebody” before expecting me to believe.

    Beating up Kent State and Appalachian State – that’s cool, but you’re supposed to do that – allowing App State to score 21 points in 17 seconds…?

    That’s where the doubt comes from…

    Look-up “five dash two” and then get back to me….

  10. booty traps Says:

    Pay Freeman? I cant believe there is talk of paying the kid. Didnt he just “get paid”?

  11. Michael Says:

    I have to say… I’m stepping out of the realm of haterville. Will the Bucs break my heart, I don’t know… but, I do know that as long as Starship #5 is taking snaps for the Bucs, this team will continue to be exciting.

  12. PWNASAURUS Says:

    So you guys saying look up “5 dash 2” are saying that this team is no better than Wyche’s 1995 Bucs. Bwahhhhhhh loooooooooool. Nice reach. lmao. Josh Freeman says hello. He hopes you like the vertical passing attack that has been missing for years.

  13. The White Tiger Says:

    pwnasaurus – I believe you were one of the haters when we drafted “Starship #5″…weren’t you…?

    You can find me on the internet, while looking up “5 dash 2”, I was the one begging for our Bucs to draft Freeman.

    Get this for a comparison between us – I will still be happy even if we end the year 7-9 – will you?

    The difference is – I just don’t believe we’ve demonstrated that we’re a good team yet – and they performing exactly as I ecpected them to.

  14. justin Says:

    Joe listen to all the self hating buc fans… Would you feel better if we were 1-6 and the nfl network talked about how our team was better than the record shows

  15. Kevin Says:

    I’ll say it again…Its the ECONOMY! If they were undefeated I still wouldnt go…I cant afford it this year. Plan and simple.

  16. The White Tiger Says:

    Why is it that when folks show a little skepticism they become haters?

    All I’m saying is – I believe I have seen progress, but I don’t think we’re as good as our record indicates yet. As evidence, I submit the Pittsburgh game, and the New Orleans game. We were thoroughly dominated in BOTH of those games, there were NO comeback heroics in either (even though I believe our personnel packages were at full strength).

    Finally – regarding “haters” – I think it takes one to know one.

    You show me your season tickets, and I’ll show you mine…

  17. gitarlvr Says:

    What will it take for some fans to enjoy the ride with this new Bucs team? Were some of these people ever on board with the Bucs? When? When the defense was awesome and the offense sucked back in the day? So now the defense sucks(but not really if you think turnovers win football games), and the offense is coming to life with the best QB the Bucs have ever had. But oh lovers of the defense of yore, do you remember how frustrating it was over the years to win ugly defensive struggles and continually envy teams whose QB’s could lob exciting long bombs down the field? Now that we have that the gripe is going the other way. Some people will just never be ready to enjoy their team unless the team is %100 percent perfect.

  18. adam from ny Says:

    love my bucs, but we are a bad 5-2……

    just like the cowboys are the best 1-6 team ever (with romo of course)….

    i have already looked at next years schedule of teams we play, and if there is a season, i would venture to say our record will be no better next year than it will be this year…..we have a tough schedule next season…this year we were blessed with an easy schedule…and with the teams growth, we are taking full advantage of it….go bucs….adam from ny

  19. McBuc Says:

    “Wins are hard to come by in the NFL”, who cares how or who they were against. I remember some beat downs are great Bucs teams took back in the day. I get what you’re saying TWT, but as the saying goes “You are what your record is”. It is not there problem that they have played teams that are not winning allot right now. Look and SD and Dallas, great stats no wins. On “any given Sunday” any team in the NFL can pull out a win.

    I was seeing how many clichés I could use without going off topic.

  20. bucfanjeff Says:

    Good teams win, bad teams lose. We’re 5-2. Right now, we’re good.
    Will it last? Probably not, we’re young. Are we entertaining and exciting? Absolutely. Everyone knew there would be growing pains this year, and it will happen, but this team is growing up in front of us and quickly.

  21. Joe Says:

    I’ll say it again…Its the ECONOMY! If they were undefeated I still wouldnt go…I cant afford it this year. Plan and simple.



  22. Rob Says:

    Lower ticket prices get more fans…It’s That Simple…

  23. passthebuc Says:

    Seems to be doing more than Jones of Dallas.

  24. buckeyebob Says:

    The Bucs dont make the schedule. They play where and whom the league says they have to play. They are 5 & 2 with the schedule the NFL gave them….Great time to be a real Buc fan.
    Folks stay away due to money. With unemployment so high most folks are trying to keep their homes and feed themselves. If they had extra cash, they would try to catch up on the bill and plan for the hoildays. When it is not about money, its always about money.

    Good job by the mgmt team to build this young group.On to Atl and another quality win…after all this is the NFL we play in each week.

  25. lightningbuc Says:

    White Pussycat,

    FYI, just a couple weeks ago Appalachian St (Arizona) beat New Orleans by 10. Oh yeah, and New Orleans has also lost to Kent St (Cleveland Browns) at home. But last night they were better than the Steelers. You’ve been watching too much BCS football. In the NFL there are no cupcakes, especially when going on the road.

  26. Joe Says:


    Joe doesn’t care if the NFL Network or BSPN talks about the Bucs all day or all night, good or bad. Means nothing to me.

    What does matter to Joe is wins and losses. While Joe is giddy over yesterday’s win, there were — and are — glaring, massive areas that need to be shored up if the Bucs plan on winning a playoff game, or even securing a playoff berth. To suggest there are not, well, one is wearing blinders.

    That doesn’t mean we can’t enjoy a win and the progress that has been made. But let’s not get crazy and ignore the bleeding warts.

  27. The White Tiger Says:

    If the Bucs beat the Falcons in Atlanta, I’d trade the rent money for a pair of tickets to the next home game against the Falcons…


    Because if THAT happens (beating the Falcons on the road) this team will have shown that they are as good as their record indicates.

    I don’t look for that, but I will be ecstatic if that’s the case.

    I just don’t want to see a loss reveal all of these “fans” as bandwagoners.

    and I’ve seen that happen more often than I’ve seen Five-Dash-Two….

  28. Kirk Says:

    I don’t give a damn what the owners do, I can’t afford to go…period.

  29. eric Says:

    Now in fairness,

    Who was it who drafted Talib?


    And, lets see a Division Title or two before we crown Raheem the Champion of the world.

    Remember, one and done wasn’t good enough……………

  30. Capt.Tim Says:

    White tiger- the NFL is a pro league. There are no Kent states. The worst team in the league is decent, and has some very talented players. The difference between the top and bottom teams in this league is very small, unlike college, where teams are favored by 50 points! As has already been pointed out here. Teams we’ve beaten have beaten teams that beat us. So, while I realize you like to sound like a master of philosophy, reality is that there are no bad 5-2 teams- EVER! There are no good 1-6 teams- EVER! So, to not realize these obvious facts implies a lack of Common sense, despite your attempts at wise pronouncements! As for Band wagon fan fans, who cares- the masses are asses! Read the live game post for proof. Look how many times yesterday some of the posters went from “I love the Bucs” to “I hate the Bucs” in a 3 1/2 hour time span!! I only worry about me. And I try not to change my beliefs every time the wind blows. I believe in this team and it’s ownership/ management. I have devoutly since I started posting here. Nothing has changed. And I have been right about everything. The advantage to staying true to your beliefs!!

  31. Capt.Tim Says:

    Eric- nice of you to return. I missed you! Buuut, got suck having these guys make all your predictions of failure look rediculious! Say, aren’t you supposed to be standing on the corner of Dale Mabry, at the stadium, wearing a “I love Raheem Morris T-shirt” ?? Looks like they won more than 3 Games to me! Now that’s a sight I won’t miss:) meybe there is time for a complete collapse, ta make you look a Lil less silly, but it would have to start soon, with absolutely no more wins!!! Hmm, meybe another bet. You think this is all “smoke and “mirrors”- put yer money where yer bitching is! If the Bucs lose the rest of their games, I wear sa “I love Jon Gruden ” shirt to the last home game, and stand in front of the stadium. If they don’t collapse, and lose their remaining games, you wear” The Glazers are like Gods to Me!!” tshirt in front of the stadium. AFTER of court you pay off yer last debt! You love to say it- let’s see how many more times you wanna be wrong!! OR , soupy actually believe the outlandish stuff you post?!? Step up to the plate Eric! I have to be wrong about something sooner or later! Lol

  32. The White Tiger Says:

    SomeCallMeTim – I am staying true to my beliefs. I can promise you that, unlike most currently on the winning bandwagon, I won’t give up on my team should we start losing.

    I beg to differ with you, your argument begins to sound like discussions regarding the BCS on Mondays around a water cooler…”Boise doesn’t play anyone, but they beat a team that beat Oklahoma…” and then Oklahoma loses which dirupts so we shift the focus to the teams that beat OSU and Alabama…and thereby “due” some sort of “respect”…

    In this league – if you want to be the man, you have to BEAT the man – we had our chance to show who and what we “are” when we went against the reigning Superbowl champions – they completely DOMINATED my Bucs – same with Pittsburgh…

    So no, until we BEAT THE MAN, we cannot be the man.

  33. Rob Says:

    nothing wrong with doubting the team and wondering how we got to 5-2– but I can say this- there are a ton of things to look forward to. When Wyche spouted his “five dash two” the talent level was really poor on offense and just starting to improve on D. Brooks and Sapp were rookies, Lynch and Nickerson were also there… It wasn’t until 1996 and 1997 when Alstott, Dunn, et al were added that the pieces started coming together. This time there are some really good young players on the offense. Come to think of it, maybe the “five dash two” comparison is actually legit!!!

    There still could be a big fall towards the end of this year- but even if there is, there is a lot to look forward to.

    ..and my talk about “paying” Freeman refers to what will surely happen in the next year or so if he continues at this pace. They will need to resign him for big bucks.

  34. d-money Says:

    White Puddy Tat,

    I can see where you are coming from but wouldn’t you agree that this team is getting better every week?

    This is not the same team that played the Steelers or Saints just a few short weeks ago. If played again those games would turn out much differently. Maybe not both wins but they would not be the beat downs that they were.

    Luckily we get to see a rematch with New Orleans.

  35. Rob Says:

    one last entry from me on the “five dash two” comment…. Trent Dilfer- in his 2nd year (started 5 games in 1994) he started all 16 and threw 4 TD vs. 18 INT. Yes, his RB was Erict Rhett and was throwing to Courtney Hawkins, Alvin Harper, and Dawsey (only Hawkins had any accomplishments after leaving the Bucs) BUT he had a pretty talented OL with Gruber, Pyne, Mayberry et al, there was nowhere near the promise this offense is showing.

  36. eric Says:

    Captain Tim,

    A few lucky wins hasn’t altered my opinion about the Dream.

    When they etch his name on the Lombardi trophy, I will concede defeat. Until then, all we got is a nice run against some inept competition.

    Could just as easily be 2-5 rather than 5-2. After all, real NFL coaching Starts in the playoffs.

  37. lightningbuc Says:

    White Kitty said:

    “In this league – if you want to be the man, you have to BEAT the man – we had our chance to show who and what we “are” when we went against the reigning Superbowl champions – they completely DOMINATED my Bucs – same with Pittsburgh…”

    So, since Arizona and Cleveland “beat the man” does that now mean they are “the man”? And since the Bucs beat both of “the men” who beat the previous “the man” does that now mean the Bucs are “the man”? The gibberish coming out of your pie hole today is way more confusing than the BCS formula.

  38. RustyRhino Says:

    @ White Tiger,

    Hey whats wrong with Appalachian St?? Not every team gets to go to back to back to back Championships games…… Much-less win them!!!!
    F-U and GO !!!!! MOUNTAINEERS!!!!!!

    whats wrong with looking at 5 wins & 2 losses as a good thing? we are NOW! tied for first place in our Division and we play the team we are tied with this week!

    GO BUCS!!!!

  39. RustyRhino Says:

    of course it is fun to get everyone riled up is it not????

  40. gitarlvr Says:

    @eric- Ok so you just proved the point of everyone that bashes you by admitting that you hate Raheem Morris so much for some reason that until he wins the Super Bowl you will not support him. So if the Bucs go 10-6 and make the playoffs this year your opinion of Raheem will not change because they didn’t win the Super Bowl a year after going 3-13? Yeah, I think its safe to say that your not a pessimist or realist but just a plain hater. I dont think anyone would she even bother to respond to you anymore.

  41. d-money Says:


    I don’t think they etch the coach’s name on the Lombardi trophy.

  42. Capt.Tim Says:

    White Tiger- that’s the point. This team never planned to “be the man” this year. This team is in the second year of rebuilding. This team wasn’t supposed to be anything except” learning and improving” that’s why being tied for best record in NFC is so amazing!! Besides , the Saints aren’t “the Man”, the Browns beat them! So the The Browns beat da man, so they ate “da Man!!” WAIT , we beat da Browns, and they are da man! So now we. Are da man!!! Hmm, white Kitty, never seen you post until ( bandwagon) recently. And yer . .um . .logic seems a Lil flawed, more like WWE jargon than Pro Football. Sooo, welcome on the Bandwagon, relax, and we’ll see if you stay on the wagon, or bail at first loss! Lol Eric, I don’t care about Lombardi etchings, or ass trophies, or whatever yer rambling about. ARE YOU GONNA PAY YER BET??? You said if the BUCS won more than 4 games, you’d stand on Dale Maybry, out from the stadium, from 12:00 to 1:30, wearing a Bright “I love Raheem Morris” tee shirt. Are you gonna be there next home game or not??

  43. thomas Says:

    I will be the first to admit that Freeman is better than I thought. Blount does add a dimension that I did not think that this team had, a didnt until a few weeks ago. Mike Williams is very impressive – that is all exciting and the team gets all of the credit for that.

    5-2 is 5-2 and they have earned it, but lets be honest. The schedule has been VERY favorable, and they are eaking out wins against some bad teams – like the Max Hall / Derek Anderson led Cards. But for another horrible interception at the end of agame as the team is going in for a go ahead score – the Cards, like the Bengals etc were poised to win.

    No I am not rooting for them to lose, just making objective observations. Rah is still a joke in my mind but so far he is 5-2, if this team doesn’t fall apart they and he will have far exceeded my expectations! I hope it continues but want to see them competitive against a couple decent teams before fully admitting that I was wrong.

  44. eric Says:

    I am only stating that the litterbox of history is full of coaches who win a few games, especially against the kind of teams the bucs have played, not to mention the lucky breaks which led to the victories.

    Although they may not etch the name of the coach on the Lombardi Trophy I think everyone gets the point. Championships make coaches great.

    Whats so hateful about that? Obvioulsly the team has improved, a blind man can see that. Rah deserves high praise for that.

    Does Rah have to win the Super Bowl to be considered in Gruden’s league? Of course he does. How else can you measure the success of a coach?

  45. BamBamBuc Says:

    Nice to see you on the fence with a lot of other non-believers, thomas. At least you can see the other side from there. Nothing wrong with wanting to see more before you jump the rest of the way over that fence.

    As for the schedule, we all knew what that schedule was going into the season. And yet many still said they’d be much worse. We all knew we’d play the Browns and the Rams and the Lions during the summer. Nobody was sure how the Panthers or 49ers would do, but figured they’d be better than what they’ve shown. Most thought Cincy was gonna be a powerhouse with the T.O./OchoCinco/AB combinations.

    Ok… so some of the teams that were supposed to be good are actually horrible. So we have an easy schedule now. That means we’re not as good as our record? Those teams have losing records in part because they lost to a team like the Bucs.

    Next year’s schedule might look vicious, but it’s obvious no one will know until next year, and we see those teams play, and see how our team progresses. Nothing is certain in the NFL from year to year. Teams come out of nowhere to play well, and others fall like a rock. Even a “lasting contender” will have some ups and downs during their tenure.

  46. Capt.Tim Says:

    Eric-“could just as easily be 2-5” ummh, whatever THAT means? Hey Eric, you could just as easily have been RIGHT about all your predictions for the Bucs, instead of being HUMILIATINGLY WRONG about every thing you’ve ever posted since I’ve been here. But if you were right about everything you posted . . . Why, You’d be CAPT.TIM !!! Wow, for a poor Lil fella like you, that would be better than a lottery win!! Just imagine, being right ALL THE TIME!!, instead always being wrong- wow! Now be quiet, quit sitting around wishing, and go get yer I LOVE Raheem shirt!! And In parting , I say “go Browns!! You da man!” jus ask the white college kitty. This is the PRO’S, son, post like ya got some damn sense! Lol again

  47. BamBamBuc Says:


    “I am only stating that the litterbox of history is full of coaches who win a few games, especially against the kind of teams the bucs have played, not to mention the lucky breaks which led to the victories.”

    Again, we knew the schedule leading into the season. I think you still predicted only 2-3 wins. I don’t think you figured we’d beat Carolina or Cincy in that prediction, I’m guessing you thought they’d be much better than they are. Well, that prediction was incorrect, as was the prediction for how the Bucs would do this year.

    How many years did Jon Gruden go from worst to first to worst again? So, last year was a worst again, and this year is looking promising. Difference this year is we have a load of talented young players to evaluate and progress and the ones that are good enough will be around for a long time to help this team maintain the good seasons from year to year. That’s the difference between now and then.

    I understand, Gruden won us a Super Bowl. Yes, Raheem Morris will need to do that as well if he wants to be remembered in the same category. But it’s not always the coach that gets you to that point that gets the credit. Tony Dungy never took us to a Super Bowl, yet he built a “lasting contender” with a group of guys that made the playoffs frequently without a lot of drop off from one year to the next. If Raheem Morris is not the guy that gets us that title, but he is the guy that builds the team, I’d put him up pretty high on the history of Bucs coaches. That has yet to be seen, of course, I won’t anoint him just yet. Just saying there are other accomplishments that put coaches in a very high class.

  48. eric Says:


    I don’t really disagree.

    But I do note that Two Division Titles in 05 and 07 were not viewed as accomplishments by some in the buccaneer nation.

    Rah is doing a fine job so far this season. My grade is a bit tempered by the level of competition and the fact everyone we have defeated seems to be struggling (except the Rams). Surely everyone would admit the ball has bounced their way so far.

    Ought to be a good game this week. Two of the top two young QB’s in football. I am tempted to fly up and check it out.

  49. Pete Dutcher Says:

    As always, BabBamBuc hit’s the nail on the head…but I would like to add something else as well.

    WhiteTiger, you stated that the Bucs are not as good as their record. That point is a valid point if we’re honest…certainly one worth considering. However, it still does not make it a correct assumption.

    The thing that makes the Bucs as good as their record? Their refusal to give up on the field. With the exception of two games, one against the SB Champ and hte other against a contender for the SB, the Bucs have fought to the end of every game…and won. Maybe you don’t recall the 2nd half collapses under Gruden?

    But what adds validity to your point is this…the Bucs are actually not as good as they are going to be. I stated several times in the past months that squeking out wins is fine with me in hte first half of the season. We are playing a lot of rookies. It will take them time to learn. Wins now will help the team later when these younger players start getting better and better.

    By the time the Playoffs get here, it’s entirely possible that they WILL be ready.

    And as to the point made by (Eric?) about one and done not being good enough…you are mistaken. It would be good enough…both this year and next. With such a fresh young team, it would be amazing if they made the playoffs.

    And, other than the clear haters, I think most of the fans would be happy with that…and it would likely earn us several Pro Bowl spots and maybe a coach of the year.

    The irony here the last to first theory is currently in full effect…at least right now.

  50. Hawaiian Buc Says:


    Understand this – THERE ARE NO LUCKY WINS IN THE NFL!!! You are smarter than that. I don’t care what their records are, going on the road with a very young team and beating Cincinnati and Arizona is impressive. We have the same schedule as the Saints and Falcons, so enough with the weak schedule BS. If you can’t see that the team is headed in the right direction, I really don’t know what to tell you.

    You keep going back to the same old “one and done is not good enough” slogan. This is a totally different situation. With Gruden, the team was full of older veteran players (similar to Dallas and Minnesota now). Their is no more room for getting better from those players, they are already at their peak (or on the downside). With this team, we are just getting started. We are young and improving at virtually every position, and that’s exciting for the people who really love this team. Now, when these players are veterans and hit their peak, I expect Super Bowls. However, that is probably a few years away. I will take a few years of rebuilding for 10 years of kicking other team’s asses week in and week out any day. It’s a little puzzling to me how everyone (players, fans, media) get this concept, but you (and a few select others) can’t. I see you as a real fan and I really do respect your opinion (unlike Buc You), but you are dead wrong on this one.

  51. mike56wesley Says:

    eric, the dream is building a team from ground up ,when yo boy gruden does that instead of inheriting a super team and lets not forget never winning another playoff game you call me.and wat u are saying is that u r a fan but,only after the team is built cant go through the growing pains, yep u might b gruden in disguise…..Well keep the light on for ya…oh yea we got plenty of money left for free agents,if one worth signing comes up,because this year we have a foundation for years to come havent seen this since dungy left

  52. mike56wesley Says:

    isnt one and done grudens thing.1 superbowl,bring in old players not another playoff win

  53. Capt.Tim Says:

    I also have to point out that the ” offensive genius” never managed to build any decent offense here, yet The leagues youngest coach has built the best Buc offense in team history in less than two years. Tells ya something, doesn’t it!

  54. Hawaiian Buc Says:


    Oh no, you are mistaken. According to Buc You, that’s not a result of coaching, just dynamic play making from the players. All the good things that happen to this team are a result of the players and just crazy good luck for the coach (5 times that is). That is not coaching, he’s only good for cheerleading. It’s only coaching when we lose or give up too many yards on defense. It’s also bad coaching because we can’t sell out the stadium. I had a flat tire the other day, that’s probably Raheem’s fault too. If we had Gruden, this team would be 8-0 right now and a lock for the Super Bowl. There would be 100,000 people at Ray Jay for every game. If Chucky were still here, my tire would be perfectly inflated!

  55. mike56wesley Says:

    its funny anytime u make response that eric or any other hater cant reply to he never answers but if u guys hate whats going on so much and have season tickets ,im out of work a single parent of two boys and would gladly take a game ticket off your hands, i know u dont want to see this idiot win so we will do it for u.

  56. mike56wesley Says:

    and ill say this gruden is a top notch coach just too damn loyal to allen,cant draft gruden couldnt develope talent,but he damn sure could coach should have kept mckay.and morris maybe cant out coach gruden,wait a minute, hes growing with the team,damn they look goooooood….go bucs…….go morris………go olsen……….i love this shi……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………..

  57. eric Says:

    “the best damn offense in team history”?


  58. Hawaiian Buc Says:


    That statement may not be as far fetched as you think in the very near future. There’s always a lot of “ifs”, but the foundation is definitely there. When have we ever had a franchise QB, a beast of a running back, and an explosive receiver, not to mention a pretty damn good tight end? Be happy, that’s a good thing isn’t it???

  59. Patrick Says:

    Maybe the offense wasn’t anything amazing here during Gruden’s tenure, but he did bring in some good players like Joey Galloway, one of the finest receivers in Bucs history and the only one to have 3 straight 1,000 yard seasons. Antonio Bryant was also a great pickup considering where he had come from. He goes from a nobody who was out of football for a whole year to having a 1,200 yard, 7 TD season. And I still believe Gruden built a pretty solid line despite the recent struggles we’ve had. Joseph, Penn, Faine, and Sears were all great additions he made with the exception of Trueblood maybe. Not his fault that Sears would later have mental issues and be released out of nowhere. Sears departure has been the main thing that has hurt us in my opinion.

    We had a pretty good rushing attack as well. Despite the tragedy that has stuck Cadillac throughout his 6 years as a Buc, I think you have to say he was a good draft choice. He was phenomenal during his rookie year, and he for sure would’ve had great seasons like that every year had it not been for those two devastating knee injuries. No one ever thought that would happen. But hey when Caddy was injured, Earnest Graham came out of nowhere and provided us with a great rushing attack in both 2007 and 2008. He was one of the reasons we won the division title in 07 and us starting 9-3 in 08. If not for his injury that year, we might’ve made the playoffs and not had that collapse.

    That’s why I’m always calling for Graham to be a halfback again because of the struggles we’ve had with Cadillac throughout the season. I remember how exciting he was to watch a few years ago and I know he can still provide that same excitement. It looks like Blount could possibly become our long term #1 back but Graham being involved would make our rushing attack even more dangerous.

    Gruden did good with what he had to work with. Give credit where it’s deserved.

  60. Patrick Says:

    @Capt. Tim btw

  61. Jeff Says:

    There are currently a LOT LESS tickets for sale at ticketmaster than for last game. The new tool allows you to see how many tix left in each section and it’s a ton less than when I bought 2 tix for the Saints game. Good sign in my opinion

  62. Rob Says:

    OK.. for anyone who said “Gruden won with Dungy’s players” remember this: Dungy won with Wyche’s players. Brooks, Sapp, Lynch, Nickerson, Dave Moore, Gruber, Wunsch, Mayberry, Ahonotu, Jackie Harris, Husted, et al. were all here before Dungy and contributed to the beginning of the Bucs decade of greatness… and, I might add, Wyche personally convinced Lynch to pass on baseball. I’m not saying he was the greatest coach we had, nor am I saying I’m a Gruden fan… just countering the folks who spew the “Gruden won with Dungy’s talent” crap. Yes he won.. Yes, Dungy picked Dunn, Alstott, Barber, etc.. but Gruden brought in his own pieces as well.

    I personally accept all of the mediocrity that followed the Super Bowl because I know there are 20 other teams that would gladly make that trade… and I think Gruden had a few good drafts, but mostly they were wasted, AND I think his personality and ego prevented some players from sticking around.. nor do I think Raheem has proven himself yet- but we need to give him the benefit of the doubt. And remember that the Glazers were here for all of it letting the football people make the football decisions… and if you don’t think the sons were around in those glory days, you’re fooling yourself.

  63. Joe Says:

    OK.. for anyone who said “Gruden won with Dungy’s players” remember this: Dungy won with Wyche’s players. Brooks, Sapp, Lynch, Nickerson, Dave Moore, Gruber, Wunsch, Mayberry, Ahonotu, Jackie Harris, Husted, et al. were all here before Dungy and contributed to the beginning of the Bucs decade of greatness… and, I might add, Wyche personally convinced Lynch to pass on baseball. I’m not saying he was the greatest coach we had, nor am I saying I’m a Gruden fan… just countering the folks who spew the “Gruden won with Dungy’s talent” crap. Yes he won.. Yes, Dungy picked Dunn, Alstott, Barber, etc.. but Gruden brought in his own pieces as well.

    A voice of reason.

  64. King Says:

    3 years ago I was making a ton of dough and had been on the season ticket waiting list for several years. Fast forward to 2010, I am now unemployed and wishing I had the income for a single game, forget a season ticket. Times have changed. Unemployment is over double what it was a few years back and many peoples incomes are down due to decreased hours, less sales, less bonuses, etc.

    Glad to see the Bucs bounce back though. Has a similar vibe to when I had first moved to the area in the 90’s and got to watch them build into a solid contender.

    Go Bucs!

  65. BamBamBuc Says:

    Rob, I’m not gonna say Gruden won with Dungy’s players, or Dungy won with Wyche’s, or any of that. What I will say is the Bucs were not a playoff team when Dungy arrived. When Gruden arrived, they were. When Gruden arrived, the Bucs had been in the playoffs for 3 consecutive years already. Gruden led us to the 4th consecutive and most importantly a Super Bowl championship. After that, however, it’s been up and down. A good year, a bad year. With Dungy, there was consistency. Every year a chance, a playoff appearance. That’s what I’m looking for now. Consistency.

    I don’t know if Raheem Morris can get us there or not. It’s only his second year, but there is a chance for us to make the playoffs this year. And with the youth of the team, and some of the talent starting to appear, it looks as though it’s “possible” to have a consistent contender. That’s all I ask, for the team to be in contention each year. We’ll see if that happens in the coming years, and if it does… remember, it all started with Raheem Morris.

  66. Capt.Tim Says:

    Patrick- yeah, after his inherited year one team, the offense pretty much sucked- I agree. The once proud defense fell into disrepair and old age, and sadly also sucked. The special teams were encumbered with talentless rookies, and the geriatrics that were finally too old for the Lil midgets taste to use( over 50), and sucked! Our young players were bad, and recieved no coaching, so they sucked. Our Vets were drawing a pension in many cases, and so far over the hill, they had fallen in the Valley- so they sucked! We had a few old guys that had some talent remaining. With the aid of a really weak schedule, they managed to drag us to a playoff game or two. But we were old and exhausted. We had NO CHANCE of winning, so that sucked. Other than that- good times . . Unless you mention how bad our drafts sucked!

  67. The White Tiger Says:

    You folks who are “all in” (as well as the “bandwagon” fans) – need to re-read the topic. This column was about the Glazers lack of attention causing fans to (somehow) stay away – even if they had a job…

    My answer is: no, the owners could have HELPED the situation and supported the development of those two rookie DT’s by signing a legitimate edge rusher (i.e., KVB), but it’s hard to imagine the 7 games looking any better than 5-2. The economy is certainly influencing the lack of attendance, but the fans are pretty savvy – they know we haven’t beaten anyone of real merit, and aren’t willing to spend money to fill the stadium.

    Some of us are feeling good about our team and it’s catching our attention, but we’re not ready to line up for season tickets. Win against Atlanta (heck, just perform WELL against Atlanta) and more will show up. The team and the league knew the financial condition of the markets they play in. We’re one of the worst – but a media research group found that an average game costs a fan a little more than $400.00…

    I think that the economy is a MAJOR influence in who is attending these games, but the other influencing factor is: if you’re going to blow up a team, gut the talent, fire the coaches – and hire guys you intend to “learn-on-the-fly” – and sit passively by while they pile up losses and mistakes while looking completely inept – this is what you can expect.

    EVERY time you do it.

    I’d also guess a new generation of fans have probably learned what to expect when calling for a coaches head…

    The owners culpability (and I lay this at their feet grudgingly, they really have shown a commitment to win) lies in the fact that they thought they couldinstant results by firing their GM and HC – and replacing them with guys that needed OJT….Last seasons goof’s and the 13 losses are still very fresh in our collective minds. Now add worse financial climate, a lack of even TRYING to find a couple of KEY free-agents (i.e., Kyle Vanden Boshe) and you have the current condition.

    In some conversations it has come up that the lack of ANY attempt at locating an edge-rushing DE (Kyle Vanden Bosche), potentially set our rookies back, developmentally. The worst I can conclude then is that because the owners weren’t willing to bet on this team, this year, why should we? We really ALL know we’re ahead of schedule now – but apparently ownership, coaching, and management all agreed that we weren’t ready to compete – or they would have acquired the proper free-agents. Save your breath about improvement – we’re beating teams we should beat and we’re losing to teams no one thought we should/could beat.

    The season ticket sales, and black-outs show that the area and fanbase just doesn’t quite believe these Bucs are for real…yet.

    @ SomeCallMeTim…the only bandwagon I’m on is the bandwagon. As you’ve no doubt noticed – my analysis is too clear, my wit unmatched, and my near flawless sentax and content show, I am no newcomer to good football talk….WHERE I do it, doesn’t matter…I had you at hello…