Bucs Better Off With Bates?

October 21st, 2010

The thought of last season makes Joe’s stomach turn, specifically the heinous Jim Bates Experiment.

Watching opponents’ passes sail over the secondary’s head like a Dirtbag Longoria line drive into the left field gap, seeing Barrett Ruud run after ball carriers downfield like Thunder Puppy Lou chases scantily clad fraulines at the beach, and watching Sabby take horrid angles week after week, game after game, possession after possession, Joe just wanted to pick up his barstool and wing it across the room.

Joe cannot tell you how many beers he guzzled, forced to watch this farce of a defense.

Probably the best personnel move Raheem Morris made all of last year was to tell Bates to go eat chicken at a fast food joint while the Bucs practiced, defrocking the Bucs then-defensive coordinator.

Though there are still potholes in the Bucs defense, it has improved.

Not so fast, says Justin Pawlowski. Joe’s good friend at WDAE-AM 620, otherwise known as “The Commissioner,” and host of the popular “Blitz” heard Saturday afternoons.

Pawlowski is of the mind that after the Bucs got slapped around by the Saints last week, the Bucs are better off with Bates, if one can imagine such a thing. Pawlowski details on his blog found on his station’s website.

It’s easy to see that the Bucs defensive statistics should be vastly improved from last year, not just because the schedule was much easier, but also because the Bucs are running a defense that fits their players much better, right?

In 2009, the Bucs, in their first 5 games, allowed 140 points, 763 yards on the ground, 4.7 yards per carry, 227.2 passing yards per game, and sacked opposing quarterbacks 9 times. In 2010, the Bucs, in their first 5 games, allowed 111 points, 785 yards on the ground, 5.3 yards per carry, 210.6 passing yards a game, and have sacked opposing quarterbacks just 4 times.

It’s easy to see that even with a much easier schedule this year than last year, the Buccaneer defense has actually put up worse statistics than a year ago through 5 games.

Joe loves Justin but Joe’s not ready to go there yet. As Justin pointed out, the Bucs have (had?) two rookie defensive tackles getting starts and playing loads of snaps. Rarely do rookie defensive tackles play well; Joe’s been over this many times before.

Secondly, under the watchful gaze of Bates, the Bucs defense set a franchise record for consecutive games allowing opponents to score 25 or more points. When you factor in some of the rancid teams the Bucs fielded in their checkered history, this is an appalling and unexcusable mark.

Were the Bucs freight-trained by the Steelers? Yup. Did the Bucs get alley-beaten last week by the Saints? Sure. But the Bucs already have won as many games in their first four outings as they did all last year.

In the end, that’s all that counts: Ws.

47 Responses to “Bucs Better Off With Bates?”

  1. Derek 'OldSchool' Fournier Says:

    An interesting point but the wins and I suspect (though I have not checked) the turnovers will tell a tale. While we were entirely hapless last year, we have only been intermittently hapless and at times interesting on defense this year.

  2. Sander Says:

    Besides that, those stats don’t support that conclusion at all. Fewer points, fewer passing yards, more interceptions (something he conveniently ignored). Yes, the run defense is worse, but that’s the only aspect that’s worse and is likely because we’re playing Rookie DTs.

    We also allowed the Buffalo Bills of all people to put up *33* points last year. The BUFFALO BILLS. THIRTYTHREE POINTS.

  3. Nick P Says:

    Dirtbag Longoria??

  4. MVPFreeman Says:

    Bates? I think thats going a little too far Joe.

  5. admin Says:

    Joe here,

    Nick P. — Dirtbag is Longoria’s longtime nickname since before he got on the Rays.

  6. gruss222 Says:

    Another article point

  7. Apple Roof Cleaning Says:

    I heard Tampa was looking at hiring Paoli from the Patriots. He would have brought in Romeo Crennell and Charlie Weiss. We had a LOT of draft picks last year. perhaps it would have been better to put Tampa’s future fate in the hands of proven winners, instead of what we have now ? What a circus this has been with the Morris/Domick experiment.
    Let’s stop pulling punches. Morris hires and fires not one, but BOTH coordinators. Sorry guys, but NFL Head Coaches do NOT make these kinds of mistakes. Dominick has not been exactly stellar either. Clayton, Ward, shall I go on ? Caddy says we were outcoached, McCoy is confused, how much more of this are we going to take ? As much as I love the Tampa Bay Bucs, I catch myself hoping that St Louis wins big on Sunday, so we finally hit our bottom on this foolish experiment, and the Glazers are forced to make a move. I will be at Tampa Stadium Sunday, as usual. But if we couldn’t stop Ivory, WTF is Steven Jackson and Sam Bradford going to do to us ?

  8. admin Says:

    Joe here,

    Gruss222 – Joe reprints an excerpt of a strong statement from a Tampa Bay media member about the Bucs defense. Joe found it interesting, and Joe gives his take. Yet you, Mr. Gruss222, seem to have a problem with it.


  9. Tampa2 Says:

    Apple Roof
    I agree with you! I love the Bucs. But if losing out would get us a “real” coach in here I will cheer for the other teams too. But unfortunately, These Sons of Malcom will probably keep this amateur wannabe coach until after they find out whether or not there will be a season next year. So, as usual, the 3 Idiot Sons will go the cheap route and keep the amateur.

  10. Mark Says:

    Why does everyone freak out when we’re 3-2 and just got blasted by the defending Super Bowl champions? I mean the Bucs are what their record says they are! They are not 0-5 people. There is no comparison to last year…no matter what. Most folks don’t seem to remember the mid-90’s when this team was building and went through it’s trials and tribulations. I distinctly remember people calling out Sapp for lack of effort during his rookie season. Take a deep breath and realize that nobody likes losing but at least have some perspective. Even if we lose Sunday (which we certainly might), we’re a .500 ball club. Did you really expect more?

  11. bucfanlostiniowa Says:

    Those first three wins really had me going. Now I’ve come back to my senses this team could easily end up 3-13 again. We keep hearing about progress and improvement but stats don’t lie, this team is going no where fast.

  12. Tommy Boy Says:

    I respect Palowski as well but when I heard that this morning I was aggravated because he deliberately ignored to mention the turnovers this defense has gotten this year. Key turnovers that changed the course of games and put us in position to win. I don’t know what he was trying to accomplish by comparing the two defenses, maybe just trying to play devil’s advocate. However, it comes off as Bucs bashing. I wonder if he thought the listeners were dumb enough to not notice he left out a vital statistic just so he could put a negative spin on what he was saying? For shame Commissioner, for shame.

  13. k_bassuka Says:

    Apple roof

    You do realize that Paoli fired his firat OC and DC. That’s why Weis and Crennell are in KC now. We have an up and coming team the problem is that some of you idiots out there want us to go from rebuilding to powerhouse in a couple of years. You guys need to chill the hell up and watch this young team grow and develope just like we watched Freeman. Go Bucs!

  14. gruss222 Says:


    What is fascinating Joe, is that I do not believe I have ever encountered any journalist as defensive and touchy. The mere words “another article point” causes an immediate defensive reaction. The words are just my opinion yet they insult you for some reason. The truth hurts when spoken aloud thus intimidation and sarcasm is returned to quiet the one speaking. I neither called your name, mentioned the writer or quoted the site in any negative manner within the post yet you immediately attack me. Really? What, should I only post how perfect, precise and powerful your column in order to not feel your wrath? We’re all adults Joe. Get over yourself and take some constructive criticism without retalliation.

  15. Buc You Says:

    It is obvious that there is a divided fanbase regarding Raheem: Those who make excuses for him and pretend everything he does is positive or not as bad as it seems…. and there are fans who see a last place run defense giving up an abysmal, WHOPPING 5.3 yards per carry.

    Does anyone understand what that means??? That is run on first and second down and first down. No need to run or pass on 3rd down.

    This is a terribly soft team and little boy Geno Hayes is part of the soft problem… so is I get manhandled Ronde Barber.

    I’m tired of the excuses.

    Apple Roof Cleaning, can you take note of some of the dismal comments at this Sundays game? I would get a good laugh at all the drunken Raheem disgusts being yelled his way. That would be funny. Either tweet it or audio record it apple!

  16. admin Says:

    Joe here,

    gruss22 – You got the reaction because of the intent behind the words. Again, yes, Joe will defend himself to unwarranted attacks, one of which you launched recently.

    You are welcome to give your opinion, just not when it spreads falsehoods and/or inaccuracies about Joe.

    Remember, Joe is not really anonymous. He’s out in the media, in the RJS press box, on the radio, working with his corporate partners, etc. You are simply an anonymous poster.

    When you post baloney in the comments about Joe, he stands up to correct what’s inaccurate. If you don’t like it, you surely don’t need to comment, or you can keep it accurate.

  17. T-Jay Says:

    Oooooh, a cat fight!!!!! Don’t let’em play you Joe. What you’ve done turning this blog into the epicenter of Buc fandom deserves a standing O. Stick to your core beliefs. lol

  18. Gruss222 Says:

    I guess accuracy is subject to one’s perception. We both believe that the other’s is highly construed. Just another article that illustrates my point. Of course, from MY opinion.

  19. Buc You Says:

    I don’t even see a problem with Joe’s ‘article’.

    Justin made a valid comparison and a valid point, but Joe defended the Bucs of current and talked to the record, the wins and the total points given up.

    If anyone who had any objectivity, would see that this ‘article’ Joe doesn’t agree with Justin.

    So how on earth is this a big deal?

    Is it because Joe reposted the God Aweful stats of the 2010 Bucs and the similarities to the 2009 defense that SOMEHOW all the apologists pawned off on Jim Bates… AS IF Raheem wasn’t the head coach… AS IF Raheem didn’t fail to change to a more violent defense.

    That’s the real story.

    I blame Joe for scapegoating Jim Bates and letting Raheem the head coach at the time too, who requested that aweful defense. I also blame Joe for making Shabby Sabby a scapegoat too.

    Joe is being VERY PC for all you apologists.

  20. admin Says:

    Joe here,

    Gruss222 – Sorry, but accuracy in this case is not perception at all.

    Earlier today you wrote: “…as soon as the draft was concluded and it was time to write about our Bucs, Joe who-ever showed a true “all about the money” business mind. I commend you Joe for knowing how to turn your site with a blast of hits. You call the site joebucFAN which results in a lot of us true fans finding the site. Then you post 85% negative trash and cause every one of us fools (me included) into hitting the site repeatedly to argue the point. You sit back behind your site controlling computer and spin doctor each argument against you to make the reader appear as if they “mis-interpreted” your article.”

    This statement was filled with inaccuracies. And you ascribed motives to Joe that don’t exist.

    Again, Joe never tells anyone how to be a fan. Ever. Yet you are trying to define what a true fan is. It’s very arrogant, which goes back to your take earlier on how people should somehow be able to afford and deal with going to the game because you routinely find a $15 ticket in an unnamed parking lot, versus The Blackout Tour.

  21. Buc You Says:

    Jim Bates gets the blame for last years woes… and this year there are no woes even though the defense is worse against sorrier teams.

    The common theme is, It Ain’t Raheems Fault… NO MATTER WHAT.

  22. k_bassuka Says:

    Buc You

    Do we have the same players out there?

  23. gruss222 Says:


    I see absolutely no inaccuracies in the above article and stand behind every word that is stated. Go back through your artciles and the facts will present you the proof. Edited for lies.

    As for the tickets, if you do not know that tickets are available from $15 to $30 (what I actually wrote earlier) within the surrounding areas of RayJay then you need to start attending the games of the team for which you write so much about. Almost any reader of this site that can not afford full price tickets will attest that the price is accurate.

    You should have also reposted my comments in reference the spin-doctoring. Edited for lies.

    @Gruss222 — These mysterious $15 to $30 tickets available outside the stadium are rarely available before kickoff, and they’re rarely two together. The entire point was that there are legions of fans who can’t walk around in the heat endlessly searching for tickets they can afford. …Joe didn’t see any of these tickets prior to the Pittsburgh kickoff. And JP Peterson of WQYK specifically went searching before the Browns game to identify the street ticket market and report on it. He didn’t find them either. You are just insensitive to many fans abilities and idea of a good time.

    Lastly, please do not continue to lie.

  24. Buc You Says:

    Not Raheems fault nope… its the rookies fault this year… even though he has no alternatives or can’t coach them worth a damn… nope not Raheems fault when things go bad. Its the desperate approach to insulate your BOY.

  25. eric Says:

    W’s are all that matters?

    Tell that to Jon Gruden.

    I thought it was all about a “feeling” as to whether we are going in the right direction? Aint that what the Glazer boys said?

  26. Patrick Says:

    Guys, our pass defense is actually very good. We’re ranked in top 10 in that area of the D. The rush defense is what’s messing us up.

    Bucs better off with Bates?? Um….while we may have only given up 220 yards per game last year against the pass, don’t forget the 10 million times we got beat downfield on 60 yard passes by every QB. That list of QB’s included Trent Edwards of the Bills. While we have gotten beaten a couple of times downfield this year, the pass defense doesn’t have me punching holes in the wall like they did last year. We’ve been getting stops, and Ronde, Talib, and Grimm have done a great job in coverage.

    And remember, even on the long TD’s scored against us, a few of those were dropped INT’s.

    But as far as the run defense goes, I throw a damn fit everytime I see a running back shred our defense like Chris Ivory did. I bet Kenneth Darby could do it if he was the starting tailback for the Rams. Let’s keep the run defense discussion going.

  27. Buc You Says:

    Gruss there is nothing wrong with this article. .. Joe is defending the bucs… if you want positive spin go find another boring website. Jeez!

    Oh yeah Joe, Steve White put down apple roof cleaners the other day telling him to not come on his blog with that fukery like on JBF… he called you and him out all at once.


  28. Joe Says:

    Buc You:

    Not defending the Bucs nor disagreeing with Justin. The stats he earthed were and are very enlightening if not damning. But at the end of the day, the Bucs still have a winning record, which is the goal no matter how you get there.

  29. Hawaiian Buc Says:

    Really Buc You,

    So you are saying that Buffalo last year (or any year for that matter) is better than Cincinnati this year? To say the defense is worse is really only looking at stats, and only one particular stat. I judge a defense by 2 things – turnovers caused and points allowed, both of which we are considerably better. Granted, our run defense looks horrible and NEEDS to be fixed, and Raheem certainly deserves some of the blame for that, but it is ridiculous to think anyone is going to come in here and make below average players excel. You can sit here and accuse people of saying it’s never Raheem’s fault, but in fact it is you who is saying it always IS Raheem’s fault. I’m sure he would be the first to tell you that he needs to do a better job, but the solution isn’t always to just go around firing people, especially when we are sitting at 3-2. Let him have a chance to right the ship, but I know that’s asking too much. No matter what happens, you’ll be on his ass after every loss, but I guess that’s just how you roll.

  30. Buc You Says:

    At the end of the last 2 seasons with Gruden he had a winning record. He also won us a Super Bowl and 3 division.titles. I find this logic biased at best.

  31. Hawaiian Buc Says:


    Nobody really knows the reason for Gruden getting fired. I have a feeling (although I could be completely wrong) that it was just a difference in philosophy. I think the owners wanted to go young and Gruden wanted to keep doing what he was doing. Unfortunately for Gruden (and you), the guys who write the checks make the decisions. That would make sense of why they fired him so late after the season, which I always thought was odd and had to be due to some huge disagreement. Expectations are a lot different now, because the team is young and not spending big money in free agency. But coming off a miserable 3-13 season, yes wins and losses are all that really matters. Double standard, yes. Understandable, yes.

  32. Buc You Says:

    I think Gruden and Allen got let go because after a week of discussions with the owners dumb sons, they must have had a falling out, most likely with Gruden cussing one of them out. The timing of it leads to that scenario. The dumb Glaziers then knew they had to eat contract money… Gruden and Allen must have thought they were safe to challenge them… but the Glazets fired them anyway.

    So the interim solution was to hire Raheem. Raheem is NOT in the long term plans. Anyone who believes this us smoking what TJax was smoking.

    I am disappointed that This inexperienced coaching staff is ruining these guys development while the Glayjays greedily wait for the CBA.

  33. admin Says:

    JOe here,

    @Buc You …Steve White did not bash JoeBucsFan in the comment you’re referring to. He merely explained to Apple Roof Cleaning that the forum on his site is not as open as it is here. And he should take his apparent hate for Raheem over here where it’s tolerated

  34. BigMacAttack Says:

    I was wondering when Apple’s verbal beatdown from Steve White would be a topic. One thing is for sure, Steve doesn’t play games when it comes to football and blogging.

    I think Apple was only voicing some pent up frustration that a die hard fan with serious concerns would express. IMO Steve may have taken it a little too seriously and quickly over-reacted, instead of cooling down and then giving Apple a response.

    The team is having serious growing pains, and the word is patience from the top brass, but the hardcore fans are having pains too, and that patience needs to be a two way street.

  35. Hawaiian Buc Says:

    I just went and read the comment from Apple and Steve’s reply, and I all I have to say is BRAVO MR. WHITE!!! Something tells me he won’t show his face again on that blog, LMAO.

  36. JimBuc Says:

    Is Justin still working for free over there at 620?

  37. BigMacAttack Says:

    I have another comment for Mr Apple.

    Stop using YOUR name for your screen name. We all say things we may regret from time to time, or call out others when we have a bad day or something. If people start to turn on you and you’re using your Company name/logo etc, it could have adverse affects that outweigh the positive gains you may get from free advertising. If you do want to advertise your company with JBF, do it straight up and pay Joe for a spot.

    “It takes 20 years to build a reputation and five minutes to ruin it. If you think about that, you’ll do things differently.”
    Warren Buffett

  38. Jerry Says:

    The people that need to be blamed are the Glazers. Dominik and Morris are simply doing the best of what they have to work with. The Glazers are not going to spend any money to get any real proven talent in here. So Dom’s only option is to find gems in the draft and try to find players like Magee who are projects that might be able to work out.

    The Glazers may very well want a young and talented team. But they also want a very CHEAP team as well.

    Get used to it. This is the new reality of Buccaneer football as long as these idiots are owners.

  39. MichiganBucsFan Says:

    The last two posts you’ve put on here by Justin have led me to believe that he is an idiot. I’m not even gonna bother being polite about it, he is a frickin idiot, period!

  40. Mr. Lucky Says:

    “Statistics are like a bikini. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.”

    “There are two kinds of statistics: the kind you look up and the kind you make up”

    Jim Bates Returns ? Yup its getting close to Halloween Time!Scarey.

  41. Mr. Lucky Says:

    @ Joe

    What does, ‘another article point’ mean????

    Seriously I don’t have a clue, is it an insider term?

  42. Mr. Lucky Says:

    Apple Roof & Tampa2

    1. I can’t believe you are actually publically ‘hoping’ the Bucs lose to St. Louis in hope that the Glazers replace the current HC.

    2. While I share the same non-belief in Morris I wouldn’t hope my team would lose to support my beliefs

    3. I think I know NOW what the definition of a fan ‘hater’ is….

  43. Mr. Lucky Says:

    Leaving 4 awhile so:

    Bucs 17 Rams: 16

    Long Live Dungy Ball.

  44. Mr. Lucky Says:

    Hey has anyone noticed that Capt Tina has been quiet this week?

  45. jesse j Says:

    Stats are for baseball, eyes are for football” Its easy to see this team is much better than last year. Laughable!!! Speaking of laughable, how many screen names is this “Buc You” character going to come up with if we win another few games. Over/Under 5, I’ll take the over

  46. eric Says:

    Any way you wanna slice it, it is a double standard.

    I am beginning to think Joe suffers from multiple personality dissorder. I suppose more than one Joe would cause that, wouldn’t it.

  47. Buckeyebob Says:

    jessie j is right…stats are for baseball. What part of YOUNG do all of you not get. These youngstes are not playing in the Big 12 or Pac 10, they face seasoned NFL players each week and are learning. That is why they REDSHIRT freshman in college, let them grow and learn how to play at the college level.
    This team is much better then last year and will continue to improve as the season goes on. GO BUCS.